Leaked Podcast, Episode 5 Summary

Episode Title: What Still Isn’t Being Said: Lab Failures, Who’s Accountable, and the Threats No One Wants to Name
Host: TFLabs
Guests: Dr. Richard Ebright and Dr. Bryce Nichols
Date: January 6, 2026

Overview

This episode of Leaked dives deep into what remains unsaid about the origins of COVID-19 and global biosafety failures, amid lingering questions and political pressures. Host Jenner Furst, with scientists Dr. Richard Ebright and Dr. Bryce Nichols—both prominent critics of risky research practices—scrutinize recent laboratory breaches, discuss flawed reforms under the current administration, and examine the persistent lack of accountability in both U.S. and international biosecurity. The conversation is candid, skeptical, and laced with disillusionment over partial measures and missed opportunities for real transparency.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Status Update: Biosafety and Administration Promises

• Early Hopes vs. Reality:
  • The new U.S. administration entered with strong pledges for greater transparency on COVID origins and biosafety reforms.
  • Dr. Ebright: "Some of those people have in fact moved forward and have followed up on the promise and high expectation. Others have not." (02:19)
• Mixed Progress: Some positive steps taken (e.g., executive orders, international speeches), but meaningful implementation or real “teeth” to the policies remains lacking.

2. Lab Incidents & Failures (China, Spain, US)

• Re-emergence of Newcastle Disease Virus in China:
  • Cited as likely a lab release, given the virus strain was supposed extinct, matching decades-old sequences.
    • "If this was a laboratory release, it represents the third documented release since 2019 in China alone." (04:43)
    • Previous incidents: SARS-CoV2 (2019) and Brucella release (2019).
• Spain – Swine Virus Outbreak:
  • Guest mentions the cover story (“bad meat”) as frequently used to deflect attention from possible lab origins (48:15).
• U.S. Incident – Fort Detrick:
  • Human factors: An altercation in a high-containment U.S. lab highlights personnel and security vulnerabilities.
    • "It provides some insight into the lack of security, the lack of personnel screening..." (07:51)

3. Political (In)action and Perverse Incentives

• Public Declarations vs. Actual Policy:
  • Despite executive orders against dangerous gain-of-function (GoF) research, the NIH process to halt funding has been ineffective.
    • "The follow-through has been absent. The expectations were high. The follow-through has been very limited." (14:38)
• Key Personnel Critique:
  • Controversy over choosing Jeffrey Taubenberger (resurrector of the 1918 flu) to lead NIAID, a move both guests find alarming.
    • "It's a shocking choice. It's an unconscionable choice. It's an indefensible choice." – Dr. Ebright (11:14)
  • New NIH Director Jay Bhattacharya defended Taubenberger, believing in his personal change—an argument the guests dismiss.

4. Gain-of-Function (GoF) Research: Utility and Justification

• Zero Tolerance from Guests: Both assert dangerous GoF work has no legitimate medical or defensive application, only bioweapons.
  • "The research has no applications apart from offensive bioweapons development." – Dr. Ebright (17:49)
• Debunking Deterrence Claims: Attribution is nearly impossible, making the idea that these programs deter attacks “not well supported.”

5. Deliberate vs. Accidental Release and Agricultural Biothreats

• Types of Release: Both accidental and deliberate release of dangerous pathogens are inevitable risks.
  • Example: 2001 Anthrax mailings traced to a U.S. biodefense insider (21:03)
• Livestock as Targets:
  • Attacks on agriculture (e.g., culling chickens, swine flu) are logical for adversaries due to their localized, economically disruptive impact.
    • "It is an invitation, a giant target painted on our backs..." – Dr. Ebright (25:14)

6. COVID Origins: U.S. or China? Reluctance for Transparency

• False Flag Hypotheses:
  • Discussed but discounted the idea of a US-origin COVID false flag; evidence points to China.
    • "What you're describing is... a scenario for a false flag attack... but I don't believe that is what has occurred." – Dr. Ebright (27:51)
• Calls for Full Disclosure:
  • U.S. reluctance to release lab records, tissue samples draws criticism; transparent investigation needed to set an international standard.
    • "All of the laboratory records... should be released and analyzed and investigated." – Dr. Ebright (29:29)

7. Blocked Accountability & the Fauci Pardon

• Preemptive Pardon:
  • Fauci granted federal immunity for pre-2025 actions, eliminating threat of prosecution.
    • "The preemptive pardon removes Fauci from a target of prosecution for events and actions of the past." (35:40)
• New Evidence, But No Consequence:
  • Even with new evidence, prospects for accountability are minimal unless future perjury occurs.
    • "It provides no protection for federal crimes committed after the pardon... or state prosecution." (37:41)
• State/International Leverage:
  • States or foreign actors could, in theory, press charges related to local impacts, but political and practical incentives are slim.

8. Next Steps: What Remains to be Addressed?

• Unreleased Information:
  • Both Trump and Biden administrations have flouted laws requiring intelligence on COVID origins to be declassified.
    • "We need to have that information released..." – Dr. Ebright (43:03)
• What should a sequel film probe?
  • Not just accountability for Fauci, but wider, systemic failures—unreleased documents, persistent lack of answers from U.S. agencies, and the paths not taken for real safety.

9. Risks on the Horizon

• “The Next Big One”:
  • Ongoing risky research in multiple countries with coronaviruses, influenza, and “Henipaviruses” (e.g., Nipah, Hendra) poses severe, escalating dangers.
    • "There are so many occurring in so many locations that it's hard to single out one..." – Dr. Ebright (45:31)
• Research Culture & Defeatism:
  • Warning against fatalism—asserting that GoF research is not inevitable, and continued complacency only guarantees more disasters.
    • "If you say it's inevitable, it will be inevitable and it will be done in every nation and we will have a laboratory generated pandemic on an annual or semiannual basis." – Dr. Ebright (54:18)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On administrative inertia:
  "[Jay Bhattacharya] has not actually followed through by implementing improvements in biosafety, biosecurity and biorisk management. And he has advanced and promoted persons who are associated, closely associated with the worst of the previous National Institutes of Health management..." – Dr. Ebright (11:57)

• On value of transparency:
  "The United States can't point to China as refusing to release information and share records if the United States fails to do so itself." – Dr. Ebright (29:29)

• On the only application of GoF:
  "The research has no applications for and no use for and has never been used for development of a vaccine, a therapeutic agent or protective protocol for a pathogen of concern." – Dr. Ebright (17:49)

• On future threats:
  "We will have a laboratory generated pandemic on an annual or semiannual basis." – Dr. Ebright (54:18)

• On dealing with history:
  "The person who removed the genie from the bottle was Anthony Fauci... if we could remove him historically from the scene, this would not have been inevitable. It would not even have occurred once." – Dr. Ebright (52:26)

• On the “bad meat” excuse:
  "When there is a lab escape or a lab release, the go to story, the go to cover story is bad meat... Bad meat, or actually with the change of one letter to bat meat was the explanation for SARS CoV2 in Wuhan..." – Dr. Ebright (48:15)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• High-level biosafety since the new administration (02:19–03:07)
• Recent lab incidents: China, US, Spain (04:20–08:33)
• Breakdown of policy vs. practice (14:38–17:11)
• Debate over GoF research utility (17:36–19:49)
• Deliberate vs. accidental lab leaks (21:03–26:46)
• Could the US be COVID’s origin? Transparency issues (26:46–34:03)
• The Anthony Fauci pardon and consequences (35:15–39:45)
• Who could still hold Fauci accountable? (39:45–41:36)
• Calls for full release of government data (43:03–44:33)
• What is the next big risk? (45:31–46:42)
• Research culture and the myth of inevitability (52:26–54:29)

Tone & Style

The conversation is forthright, at times sardonic, and marked by a sense of reluctant expertise. Both guests, and the host, express persistent frustration with systemic inertia, pointing clearly at individuals and institutions they believe are failing to confront the magnitude of the risk.

For Further Listening / Viewing

For more, including full interviews and documentary evidence, listeners are directed to “Thank You, Dr. Fauci” on Angel Studios.