← Leap Academy with Ilana Golan
Leap Academy with Ilana Golan
9x Founder Kim Perell: How I Turned a $10K Loan Into a $235M Company | E154
00:56:04
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- [00:01]
Kim Perell
I called every person I knew and asked them to come work with me and for me. Then I hired all my friends and I'm like, we're all gonna make millions. And then my boss calling me into his office, he's like, we're gonna have to let you go. I was devastated. I actually did not want to become an entrepreneur, but I realized after getting laid off, there is no security. And the best bet you can make is a bet on yourself. At least if I bet on myself, I can control that.
- [00:26]
Ilana Golan
Kim Perel is a 9 times founder. She started her from her kitchen table at 23 years old and became a multimillionaire by the time she was 30.
- [00:38]
Kim Perell
You have to decide if your belief is greater than everyone else's doubt in you. You have to make that decision and that leap into the unknown.
- [00:48]
Ilana Golan
Some people are like, oh Kim, you probably can't do it. How did you build conviction and say, you know what, I gonna try anyway?
- [00:55]
Kim Perell
You will never be successful if you try to do everything yourself. Well, if I'm not going to do it alone, I've got to find people who are these people? And I came up with these four people pillars and they were Sometimes it
- [01:08]
Ilana Golan
is time to pivot and sometimes the grass somehow always looks greener on the other side. So how do you not pivot so many times that you actually don't give yourself a chance to persevere?
- [01:19]
Kim Perell
I think it's number one being then looking for.
- [01:26]
Ilana Golan
Welcome to the Leap Academy with Ilana Golan show. I'm so glad you're here. In the Leap Academy podcast, I get to speak to the biggest leaders of our time about their career, how they got where they are today, the challenges, the failures and countless lessons. So lean in. This episode is going to be amazing. I'm on a mission to help millions reinvent their career and leap into their full potential land their dream roles, fast track to leadership, jump to entrepreneurship or build portfolio careers. This is what we do in our Leap Academy programs for individuals and teams. And with this podcast we can give this career blueprint for free to tens of millions. So please help my mission by sharing this with every single person you know. Because this show has the power to change countless of lives. Dio. Okay, so let's dive in. Kim Perel is a nine time founder, three times bestselling author, investor in over a hundred companies. She started her first company from her kitchen table at 23 years old. We're going to talk about it. And became a multimillionaire by the time she was 30. She sold her last company for $235 million. Now, in her book, Mistakes that Made Me a Millionaire, Kim shares that it's not just about the success. It's actually the mistakes that created the biggest breakthroughs. And I can't wait for you to hear it because it's the waiting too long. It's the feeling not ready. It's the playing small. It's the letting fear and self doubt take the reins. So if you are debating what's next for you, feeling fear, doubt, something is holding you back, or if you feel that you made some big mistakes in your career and that maybe you cannot recover, this is the episode for you. So lean in. And I wanted to hear how your greatest setbacks can become the greatest comebacks. And if you're willing to look at it differently. And Kim Perel will show you exactly how. And also remember, end of the conversation. We select a question from a Leap Academy with Ilana Golan YouTube channel and we answer it. So today we will answer a question in a similar theme about fear. So stay tuned. Kim, so glad to have you on the show.
- [03:52]
Kim Perell
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so thrilled to be here.
- [03:55]
Ilana Golan
I love hiking and listening to audiobooks. And I was listening to it, I'm like, oh my God, I resonate. Oh my God, I resonate. So I was like taking frantically notes. So it wasn't a great exercise because I was taking notes all the time. Kim, this was so good. But I'm going to take you back in time to you growing up as a twin, which is kind of rare. How did that growing up shape you and to who you are today? Kim?
- [04:20]
Kim Perell
Oh my goodness, that's going back. Well, I feel that I don't know any of the twins out there, but probably had a sibling like my sister Tracy. So my sister, you know, my twin, we genetically are the same, but she was always smarter and faster and stronger. And everything we did, she was always in first place. And it was devastating. I'm sure so many people can relate to that sibling that was always just better at everything they did, Right? And when we were 10, we took a test to see if you'd get into the talented and gifted program. And of course, I assumed we would have the same outcome. Unfortunately, Tracy aced the test as she always did, and I did not. And I can remember at such a young age, I was 10 and just it kind of haunted me. One of those things that really makes a difference in your childhood because my friends would make fun of me, like, oh, Kim, you're not the smart one. Which honestly haunted me for so many years and decades to come. And I felt like that, you know, I internalized that and I just placed a label and a ceiling on who I thought I was at a very young age. And all because of my twin sister. And I'm sure so many people listening to this can probably relate to something early in your childhood which labeled you or had some effect on you that you then carried on for 10, 20, 30 years later. And it was a limiting self belief. And that was honestly, it wasn't that I failed the test. I mean, who cares? But I placed that label and that was a huge mistake at such a young age. And I just assumed I wasn't the smart one and that I wasn't gonna be successful. And I was destined for failure at the age of 10, which is ridiculous, but you can't help but think these things. And so every day my sister would get best off to the talented and gifted school, and I'd just sit on the curb and cry, which again, if you're 10, you don't know why and it doesn't make sense to you. And you know, my mom actually gave me this great quote from Roosevelt, which is comparison is the thief of joy. And if you're always comparing yourself to your twin sister, you will always be bitter. And she really taught me from a very young age just to focus on my own unique strengths and talents. But it was hard. I'll be honest, it was hard. And I think that that was a red thread that it carried with me but for a very long time. And those doubts and the, the limiting beliefs and the confidence, all those things you don't think make a difference, but they really do. And so it's. How do you overcome those limiting beliefs so you don't let them impact what you truly could become.
- [06:58]
Ilana Golan
This is so powerful. I love that the comparison is a thief of joy. Right? Because on one hand it motivates you, on the other hand it's like you're always feeling not enough. And you also saw from your father, he was more the entrepreneurial person. What did you learn from that? But also did that create fear or did that create drive? Or how do you think that shaped you?
- [07:20]
Kim Perell
Oh, my goodness. My parents were both actually entrepreneurs, but my father was this dream big bet, the farm. He was always chasing some huge dream and he had a big vision as a child. It was really scary because the ups and downs of entrepreneurship and not knowing if you're going to get the heat or if you're going to be able to pay the bills. It was really quite gives you a lot of anxiety. So I'm like, I'm definitely not going to be an entrepreneur when I grow up. Terrible idea. I don't want to go through that. It was too much. But what he did do is when we were early on and me, my sister, my brother at dinner, we wouldn't talk about sports or school. We really would talk about his day and the challenges that he faced every single day and the ups and downs of entrepreneurship. And we talk about the biggest failures that we would have had that day in school. And maybe I forgot my homework or I flunked a test or whatever it was. And he kind of normalized failure for me at a very young age. And that's really interesting to look back because at that point I was just like, why can't we be like a normal family and talk about whatever normal families talk about? Right? I don't wanna talk about your failures, dad. I thought it was like his own therapy and I'm just there to support him. But the reality was he was ingraining risk and failure and normalizing it for me from a very young age. And I think I didn't realize that till decades later when I failed myself that I thought, okay, this reminded me of him and how does he react when all these challenges come faced him? And it was a great, I mean, looking back, a great role model when you're in it, not so fun. I mean like, not fun at all. I want nothing to do with it. I would have rather watched someone else do that. But it was definitely normalizing failure for me at a young age, which I
- [09:10]
Ilana Golan
think is so good, Kim, because unfortunately schools don't normalize it. Right? You either get an A or an F. Right. You're either a successful kid, student, whatever, or you're a failure. Right. And it's beautiful to start understanding that there's a different way to look at failures.
- [09:28]
Kim Perell
Yeah, I mean, I have four young kids and really teaching them. I want them to take risks. I don't need them to be perfect. I actually want to ingrain that it's okay to fail. It's okay to make mistakes, it's okay not to be the best. As long as you're learning and trying and growing. That is what's most important.
- [09:46]
Ilana Golan
I love that. So I know you have it at some point, some role in the sales department in north, but I'm sure there's some learning there and I would love to hear about it. And then we're going to Fast forward to 2000 when you're in a startup. So share with me a little bit what happened before then.
- [10:01]
Kim Perell
Oh, my gosh. So, not wanting to be an entrepreneur, I decided I wanted to get a real job at a stable company when I graduated from college. So it was the height of the dot com era, and I went to work for a company that raised $100 million in funding, which is a lot of money back in early 2000s. And I thought I was going to be a dot com millionaire. It was an amazing time to be part of a growing company. Unfortunately, that rocket shift did not go to the moon, and the company burned cash faster than it could make it. The economics didn't work. It was a precursor to Dropbox. It was online file storage, but this was before cloud computing, so it was very expensive, and people just weren't willing to pay for it. It wasn't fast, it wasn't easy, and. And the company, unfortunately went bankrupt.
- [10:49]
Ilana Golan
So take us there. Take us to 2001. You're starting to see, like, the winds of change. Take me there for a second.
- [10:57]
Kim Perell
Yeah. The stock market drops, and I think my company's different. We have a ton of cash because, I don't know, I'm just working at a company. You don't visibility into the actual P and L of the company at this point. So I thought, we're fine. I was in sales. I thought my job secure. I had called, and honestly, I called every person I knew and asked them to come work with me and for me. So then I hired all my friends, and I'm like, we're all gonna make millions. Until we didn't. And then I can remember my boss calling me into his office, and I can remember sitting there and I just thought, routine. Hey, how you doing? He's like, we're gonna have to let you go. And, I mean, my heart sank. This was my dream job. I felt so secure. Security. I was seeking security. I was devastated. And then I remember walking out the door and he said, oh, Kim, there's one more thing I need you to do before you leave. I was like, okay, what is it? He's like, you need to let go of all your friends that you'd hired too. I was devastated. Honestly, devastated. Have you ever fired any? I hadn't fired anyone.
- [12:03]
Ilana Golan
I.
- [12:03]
Kim Perell
You know, now I'm gonna have to fire all my closest friends. It was the worst day of my life on the same day as I get fired. And honestly, I had no clue. I really believed that I was going to be successful. But I had let everyone go. I honestly went to bed, put the covers over my head, and just hoped the nightmare would pass, right? And obviously it didn't. And then I had to wake up. And eventually my roommates were like, you know, you're going to pay the rent, what are you going to do next? And I loved the Internet. It was fast growing. But at this point, it wasn't just my company that went bankrupt. It was every company was going bankrupt. I mean, the dot com bubble burst and it was a graveyard of Internet companies at that time. And so, you know, I had to get a job. And I was like, I just had a job and then I needed to get another job. But, you know, it was one of those moments that defines you. And I didn't think I was ready. I had an idea of an Internet company, but my track record wasn't great. But I believed in myself. And so the challenge was everyone said I was crazy. Get a real job. You know, that's a fad. You're never gonna be able to do it. All the things people tell you when you wanna start something, right? All the reasons you should not do it, and then you have to decide if your belief is greater than everyone else's doubt in you. You have to make that decision. And that's that leap into the unknown, right? That's that leap that you take into you're not ready and you do it anyway.
- [13:31]
Ilana Golan
And I love that. Kim and I gonna stop you here for a second. People that are hearing this, I think this is like a really, really important message because today more than ever, especially like in tech and other places, hundreds of thousands of people are losing their jobs. And I think there is a moment where you need to decide, am I gonna find another job, which is perfectly fine, or I gonna start my own thing. But whatever it is, you're going to start needing to look at yourself as your own economy because nothing is safe anymore, right? So the question is, how did you build? Even though some people are like, oh, Kim, you probably can't do it, how did you build conviction and say, you know what, I going to try anyway. And you actually have a beautiful story of going to your grandma, which I want to hear a little bit.
- [14:16]
Kim Perell
Yeah, it is similar, right? It wasn't that I wanted to become an entrepreneur. I actually did not want to become an entrepreneur. But I realized after getting laid off, there is no security. And the best bet you can make is a bet on yourself. And so once I had that realization that regardless of where I go, I will not have the security that I really wanted. And I was seeking. I felt confident that at least if I bet on myself, I can control that. And that was the big difference. The problem was no one else wanted to make the bet on me, right? So no one wanted to give me money. My parents were like, no way. And the only person that would give me money for this crazy Idea was my 82 year old grandma. And I remember calling her and saying, grandma, I've got amazing investment opportunity for you. All I need is $10,000 to start an Internet company. And my grandma, so cute, she was like, what is the Internet? I mean, this is really early, right? She's like, I don't even know what you're talking about. And actually it was probably good because if she knew, she wouldn't have given me the money. So she made that bet on me. And it's like that one belief, that one person that just believes in you, they're not taking into account market conditions. She just believed in me. And that was so amazing because that gave me also the confidence to believe again in myself. And so she gave me a $10,000 loan and I started my first company from my kitchen table. Where is a great place to start? So if anyone's out there thinking, where am I gonna start it? Kitchen table, garage, bedroom, it actually doesn't matter. It's never been a better time to start a company. And it's never been easier. I mean, at that point I had a dial of Internet with like aol. It was terrible. Do you remember that? It's like, it was not easy
- [16:06]
Ilana Golan
exactly. And it's never been easier. I'm not saying it's easy, but it's never been easier. It's never been more straightforward. There were never as many tools. Coaches, help, consultants, mentors. Like, it's never been easier to start something of your own. And you share it, though, so beautifully in your books about all the mistakes that made you a millionaire. Because I think you literally say, even if you have all this help, you will make mistakes. That's inevitable, but that's because you need to learn from them, right? So you're starting this amazing thing in your kitchen. You don't know it's amazing, yet you're still trying to do everything on your own, which is such a common mistake, right? Because we're like, okay, let me try this. But share a little bit of that learning of trying to do everything alone and making some of these mistakes. And what did you learn from it?
- [16:57]
Kim Perell
I was afraid of so Many things, right? I was afraid to hire anyone. Cause then I might have to fire them again. And I didn't want to do that because I was terrible and I was afraid to fail. So I became a perfectionist. And then that stopped me from actually making progress because I just tried to make everything 100%. I had all these things that limited my ability to move forward. And one thing that I thought was really important, like at $10,000 and it was going quickly, I had to figure out how to make cash and, like, actually bring the company to life. And I remember listening. I was at my kitchen table and my boyfriend was sitting in the room next to me listening to, you know, the news. And there was a Marine Corps general talking about the 70% rule. And the 70% rule was about taking action with incomplete information. And how he used that in battle is he's like, okay, if you're 70%, you better go. If you're 100%, you've already missed it. And so when you're in battle, you have to be able to balance action and analysis at the same time and be able to move. And I thought, hey, if he's using this, I'm 23. I could use this too. I need mentorship. I'm like, okay, tell me what to do. 70% ready, I'll go. And it really helped me get from just analysis, paralysis, overthinking everything, which I'm sure people can relate to, just constantly overthinking and not moving forward. I made a decision that if I was 70% ready on my marketing, on my pitch, in my sales, on my website, now would be social media. Just 70% and go and figure out the rest along the way, because you'll learn and you can adapt and you can get feedback. But that was a game changer for me. So I no longer waited to feel 100% ready. I used the 70% rule, and I still use it all the time. It's been a game changer.
- [18:48]
Ilana Golan
We need to pause for a super brief break. And while we do, take a moment and share this episode with every single person who may be inspired by this. Because this information can truly change your life and theirs. Now I want to check in with you. Yes, you. Are you driven? But maybe feeling stuck in your career or a fraction of who you know you could be, do you secretly feel you should have been further along in your income, influence, or impact? Do you ever wonder how to create not just a paycheck, but the life you want with a paycheck? The thought leadership, the legacy the freedom, because that was me. And that's exactly why I created the Leap Academy program, which already changed thousands of careers and lives. Look, getting intentional and strategic with your career is now more important than ever. The skills for success have changed. Aq, adaptability, reinventing and leaping are today the most important skills for the future of work. Building portfolio careers, multiple streams of income and ventures are no longer a nice to have. It's a must have. But no one is teaching this except for us in Leap Academy. So if you want more from your career in Life, go to leapacademy.com training check out this completely free training about ways to fast track your career and you'll even be able to book a completely free strategy call with my team. That's leapacademy.com training too many people finish their workday feeling frustrated, drained and unfulfilled. The good news is it doesn't have to be that way and you don't need necessarily a new job to fix it. Patrick Lencioni, author of the Five Dysfunctions of a Team and more than a dozen other bestsellers, created the Working Genius assessment to help you pinpoint the kind of work that gives you energy and the kind that drains it. Over a million people, including myself, have taken it and it completely changed how I lead and how I show up every day. So. So if you're a CEO or entrepreneur or someone who just wants to level up in business and in life, working genius will give you the clarity and the confidence to operate in your strength and really find greater joy in what you do. Because confidence isn't about pretending that you're good at everything. It's about knowing where you're truly gifted. So take the Working Genius assessment today. Get 20% off with a code leap@workinggenius.com that's working genius.com you'll be glad you did. First of all, done is better than perfect. You will never have the perfect story, perfect resume, perfect business plan, whatever. Like it's never going to be there. And for me in the Air Force it was always about experimentation and trying different things because you absolutely never going to have all the data you want to make the ultimate decision. Like that's just never going to happen. But realizing that and making decisions anyway, that's probably one of the scariest things there is. No if then else. I just need to make a decision and go, so tell me, how did you get there?
- [21:55]
Kim Perell
I started making decisions and going and then I realized I was going at like 18 hours a day as an entrepreneur alone and I was exhausted and I was burnt out and felt alone. And the whole thing was just. As an entrepreneur, many people can relate to this. You feel alone a lot of the time, right? You feel alone because people, you know, friends and family, they can't understand what you're even going through. They can't understand the challenges. It just doesn't compute. And so I remember my boyfriend at the time had found me, now my husband, so we survived the kitchen table, but he found me one morning, you know, and I was sick, and I was sleeping on my computer. My face was against the keyboard, and it has, you know, like, all the numbers on it. And he's just like, what are you doing? You have to get help. Like, this is not sustainable, right? This is crazy. You need to ask for help. And it was kind of like one of those moments where, you know, you can't keep doing it like this and be successful. And so at that point, I swallowed my pride. And I was very, you know, I had this lone wolf mentality. And I called someone that I had known growing up that had built businesses, and I asked for help. And the reality was, he didn't give me advice based on marketing strategy. You know, he literally was like, why didn't you call sooner? Why didn't you call me sooner? And I said, you know, I don't know. I just. Too proud, I guess, right? Like, the reality was. And he gave me this really good advice. He's like, listen, no one is successful alone. You will never be successful if you try to do everything yourself. And that was a kind of a game changer, my mental state, because it was a very seasoned individual giving me great advice that I just hadn't internalized prior to that. And that mindset shift made me think about, okay, well, who do I need in my life? And I talk about this in my book. Who do I need in my life in order to be successful? If I'm not going to do it alone, I've got to find people who are. Who are these people? And I came up with these four people pillars. Just as a house has four walls, I needed four pillars in order to be able to be successful in a business. And they were my family and friends, which was my nanny. They were my mentors, an experienced mentor, like the individual that I had called Jerry. It was a team. I wasn't gonna be able to scale unless I hired a team. And the fourth one was peers, other entrepreneurs that knew and had similar experiences so they could relate to what I was going through. And so once I had these four pillars and I really started making it a priority to surround myself with them. My business took off and that was the ultimate unlock in my success is knowing I would not be able to scale by myself.
- [24:48]
Ilana Golan
And I love that you said that. And by the way, you say a few things. I want to quote you from the book if that's okay and I hope I'm not butchering it. But I think first of all you say something like 93% of all self made millionaires have mentors. Which I was just like, what? Really? And then you say that people with mentors are promoted five times more than people without. And for me that was like where was this stats when I needed it two decades ago? Right. Because I know that this is what we create in Leap Academy. But where was that? Why did I not realize how important it is who you surround yourself with and just not going through this alone? Right. Because I know in Leap Academy we created this components of people that are like minded and they're going through this together and all of this. But I don't know if I realized how important that is. And it's crucial you always going to have the people that sunk you down. And you actually talk really beautifully about it.
- [25:44]
Kim Perell
Yeah, it makes such a big difference. Right. And I think if you only change the people, you'll increase your chances of success by 10 times. So why wouldn't you do it? Right. And to your point, 93% of self made millionaires have mentors. And think about all the most successful people that you know, Bill Gates had Warren Buffett, Mark Zuckerberg had Steve Jobs, Luke Skywalker had Obi Wan Kenobi. I mean everyone has a mentor. Why would you not do that? It's so simple too. It's like the biggest unlock that we miss. And I missed it too. I don't know why people don't share those statistics on career progression by having that mentor.
- [26:23]
Ilana Golan
So, so, so important. Okay, so you understand that you need to start putting mentors and getting help and hiring a team and you somehow get you all the way to selling it for $20 million. Which I want to hear a little bit of. How did it scale? Because that's incredible. That's a very different story. But you also went back to your grandma which was such a beautiful story. So share with us a little bit of that.
- [26:48]
Kim Perell
Yeah, so once I hired the team and I got the mentors and the peers and I joined a bunch of groups to make sure I was going to be able to have the support I needed to become the entrepreneur that I really believed I could be. My business took off, and we doubled revenue. The Internet started to really take off, too. So rising tide floats all boats, right? I just happen to be right place, right time. And I think how many people would have sat at their kitchen table for three years with no hope, no sign? You know, three weeks is one through three months a year, three years go by. So it really was, you have to keep going. And your ability to keep going long after everyone else would have quit is what separates the successful people from everyone else. So I just kept going. I was determined. I was relentless. You know, I maxed all my credit cards. I just put everything I had into building this company. And when I sold it in 2008, I went to see my grandma, and I could just remember showing her the check, and she just was like, I don't even understand what happened. You know, her $10,000 became 20 million, and then we made another 20 million on the earnout. So my grandma was overjoyed. But, you know, honestly, it wasn't about the money. She believed in me, and her bet paid off. And since then, and why I invest in so many founders and entrepreneurs is I want to pay that forward. I want to make sure that that belief continues to support the future generation of dreamers and risk takers. Because having that one person bet on you makes such a huge difference.
- [28:27]
Ilana Golan
Oh, this is such a beautiful story. But then you don't decide to just cash out and rest. You actually decide to start another company, which was later acquired by Amobi for 235 million. And you've been a CEO there. Take me a little bit to that journey. And what are some of the things that did. You still need to make mistakes in order to grow.
- [28:51]
Kim Perell
Yes. Oh, my goodness. So as I continued to grow in my career and then I sold again to a company out of Singapore, I spent then another five and a half, six years working. It was a billion dollars that I oversaw on a global basis. We had offices in 20 different cities. We had over a thousand employees from Tel Aviv to Tokyo, Australia, the U.S. it was an amazing experience. And there's so many mistakes that I made there, too. You keep making mistakes. The whole thing about business is everyone sees a $235 million exit. No one sees how hard it is to get there. And the late nights and the fears and the challenges and the setbacks. You only see the exit. And why I actually wrote the book is I want to talk about everything else, which is all the mistakes it took to get there and all the things I had to learn the hard way. And hopefully, I mean, I write about 10 mistakes, but I make hundreds. And I'm still making them. But as long as I'm learning from them, getting smarter and growing, I feel that now I see them as truly stepping stones on the way to success. I really do. At this point, when the mistake happens, it doesn't shake me. It doesn't break me. It just. It's inevitable. And I think learning to be able to do that is really amazing because I didn't learn that overnight. It took a good 20 years. This is not an overnight learning.
- [30:18]
Ilana Golan
It never is. Right. Like, it always kind of looks like the overnight success, but it always takes a decade or two or more or whatever. But you did create something that is really exceptional. A lot of people can work for 10, 20 years, and they're not going to get to those exits. But I do want to understand a little bit, maybe talk a little bit about money mindset, which is not necessarily something that you talk a lot. But I do think it's really important because it is part of the fear, right? Like, can I afford this? Can I do this? What if I go broke? What if I can't afford this? And especially now, I think people have this legit fear. There's like, I was laid off. I'm going to be broke. What do I do? And for you, there's two main things that I want to go over. One is the initial, like, fear. I'm broke, but I need to do this anyway. But also, how do you change your mindset to money? Because eventually, when you are selling for many, many millions, your money mindset needs to change. I needed to go through this because again, 10,000 used to be a lot of money. And suddenly we're, what, I don't know, a hundred thousand dollars in, you know, in a few days, you know, it's like, oh, crap. Like, it's a whole different of fear. So talk to me a little bit about also the evolution maybe, of that fear.
- [31:39]
Kim Perell
I think it's two things. One, because I had so many fears, is having the fears and knowing that, what's the worst that can happen? Failure does not make you a failure. And I think that's so important for people to hear is if you want to truly be successful, you're gonna have to take risk, and you're gonna have to risk failing, and that's okay. So really internalizing that and being like, okay, I could fail, but I also could be hugely successful, and your confidence has to be greater than everyone else's doubt. And that will push you forward. And the vision that you have will push you to continue to keep going when everyone else wants to give up. And the money mindset, you know, it's interesting, I just was talking to my kids about this yesterday, actually. Cause it doesn't matter if you're six or 60, right? I operate from an abundance mindset, meaning I'm always thinking there's enough for everyone, right? It's not fixed, it's not limited. I'm also thinking if something's not working, I'm the first person to pivot. I talk a lot about this in the book too. Failing to pivot has to be the number one roadblock of all entrepreneurs. Because you think my idea is the best, but the reality is until you get it to market, you don't know. And so we again sit there and think, my idea is gonna be great. But once you get it to market, and if you get negative feedback, which I've gotten so many times, you have to change course. And that will eventually lead you to success. So reminding yourself there is a way through. But I have to be open to changing, to adapting, to learning and to growing. And maybe how I get from A to Z will look differently. And I feel I am the fastest person to learn, right? And I've adapted that mindset of fail forward, fail faster, test and learn, test and learn. It's ingrained in me.
- [33:31]
Ilana Golan
Now I'm totally leaning into what you just said, so let's go there for a second. Because sometimes it is time to pivot and sometimes the grass somehow always looks greener on the other side. So how do you not pivot so many times that you actually don't give yourself a chance to persevere? So how do you maneuver that? Because I think it's just such a great thing for everybody to listen to.
- [33:58]
Kim Perell
I think it's, number one being open, that your way might not be the right way. It may not be the right way. Now, if you're open minded to hear that, then looking for what part is working. Because usually when people pivot, it's something they didn't realize was already in their business and they take a shot, right? And if you look at some of the most successful companies, right, YouTube started as a dating site, Twitter a podcast platform. Shopify started by selling snowboards online. Like, look at where they started and where they ended. And then seeing what's actually working. And what's interesting is if you lean into what's working and realizing and Being honest with yourself of what's not working, if we're not growing, if we're stagnant growth, if we're declining, something is wrong and you need to make a change.
- [34:48]
Ilana Golan
Oh, I love that. So, so, so good. And I want the listeners to hear this because I think many, many times what we hear from our audience is like, I don't know, like on one hand you guys tell us to just persevere and grit and tenacity, and on the other hand, maybe I do need to experiment and adjust and all the things. And I'll tap into what you said, Kim. First of all, just experiment. Use it as multiple experiments to just decide if you need to adjust or not. But also bring the data, not just the drama. What is the data actually telling you? Because sometimes we don't want to listen to the data, but also what's on the other side. So if it does work out, what's going to happen? Like, is this really where you want it to go? Or even if it does work out, the grass is not that green. Am I right, Kim? Or where do you see that?
- [35:36]
Kim Perell
I think you are and I think right now in a lot of my companies and I, I co found a bunch of companies I invest in, companies like Test and learn, Fail fast. This is what I say, speed right now is the word of the year. Speed. Don't sit and analyze too much. And to your point, you can do great things by testing online very quickly, right? I can iterate and test very fast a lot of things and get it to market, get customer feedback and then change along the way. So faster than ever, which is amazing. So I don't sit and think I'm right all the time. Like I just want to win so I don't need to be right. You can be right. Let's just win. Like my goal is not for me to be right. And so once you remove that and you're just open to let the market dictate what is right. Let the client dictate is what right. Cause they're the one buying.
- [36:24]
Ilana Golan
Oh, so good. So good. So tell me, when you see people that fail, what are some of the biggest mistakes that you see people make?
- [36:33]
Kim Perell
I think it does go back to when you make a mistake and when you fail and I've been there is internalizing that you are a failure and never getting back up. That is where people stop. And to be honest, that actually is where people should start. If you fail once, you're twice as likely to be successful, your probability that you're Going to be successful next time because you learn, because you grew. I mean, I love entrepreneurs that have failed. I failed. That doesn't mean count me out. That means I have the courage to try again when. Which shows resilience and grit and tenacity. And that's the type of entrepreneur that I like to bet on.
- [37:10]
Ilana Golan
Ooh, that's powerful. So tell me, what shifted when you needed to build a company that sells for 235 million versus the initial company that you were part of? And how do you also change now that you're investing in others? What changes in Kim?
- [37:28]
Kim Perell
I think going from my kitchen table to a billion, you have to have the right people. This is where scale matters. You have the right to have the right processes and the right people because you need to believe and depend that they are smarter and better than I am and they can lead and they can scale as well. To me, the team is so important. I always bet on people 100%. I bet on the person. I bet on the team. Their ability to grow and to lead and succeed is the most important thing to me. And it still is today. The values, the culture, the mission, like very basic, fundamental business fundamentals are literally the same if I'm a startup or if I am a publicly traded company.
- [38:15]
Ilana Golan
Such a good point. Let me take you there, because I know a lot of our listeners are worried about, how do I then rise above the noise? There's so much noise right now, especially now with AI and whatever and layoffs. How do I rise above the noise? How do I get to investors? How do I get a role in leadership? How do I get hired again? What are the things that you notice from people that are somehow managing to rise above the noise? I'm sure you're getting a lot of people that are trying to get to Kim. What makes a difference for you?
- [38:49]
Kim Perell
I think, honestly, you have to ask your way to success. So many times, we're hesitant to ask our way for the promotion, ask our way to the sale, ask for the investment, because we were gonna get rejected, and we fear rejection. We fear we might not do well enough. Honestly, rejection's your best friend. You have to be able to ask your way to the next level. And that is really important, especially for women. I think it's like we're not used to asking for help. I'm not, and it took me a long time, but now I ask everyone all the time, and I get rejected all the time, and I keep asking. It doesn't stop me. And so every no I know gets Me one closer to the yes. So I go for the no. It's okay. Go for the no. Ask your way to success. That is the only way that you will ultimately be able to level yourself up.
- [39:36]
Ilana Golan
So this is so, so, so important because I think again, we don't like asking there's some ego thing there or we are afraid of rejection or what will people say? What are other things that you needed to maybe unlearn in order to take yourself to the next level?
- [39:52]
Kim Perell
I think thinking what got me here is going to get me there. Like, it just doesn't. Right. I'm an avid reader. I am always looking for someone who's farther ahead that can mentor me. I'm always learning. I mean, I tell people, if you're not earning or learning, you should go literally. And so I think that's really important to hear that. Okay, so if you didn't hear me the first time, if you're not earning and you're not learning, you should get out of where you are and do something else. And that's how I evaluate if I'm in the right place, if I'm with the right people.
- [40:26]
Ilana Golan
Earn and learn. I am totally taking that. This is so good.
- [40:30]
Kim Perell
It's so true though, right?
- [40:32]
Ilana Golan
It's so true. And I think especially now, there's going to be a lot of people that are creating some kind of portfolio careers and multiple streams of income and ventures. And sometimes you have these ventures for extra income, but sometimes these are the things that close gaps or bring fulfillment or learn something new or a way to experiment with something. And again, it's such a great way to look at the earn or learn. Because yes, you probably going to be involved with multiple streams of things, but gauge what you're gonna say yes to, what you're gonna say no to. Yeah. If you're not earning or learning. Yeah. It's probably the wrong thing for you.
- [41:10]
Kim Perell
Yes. Right. And so many people stay too long because they're afraid or they're comfortable. But it's an easy way to identify, have I been here too long? Just ask yourself those questions. Be really honest with yourself too. If you haven't had a promotion or you don't have a boss that wants you to take on new projects or do new things or expand your mind. Like that's what we need to be thinking about. How do I level up my own intelligence?
- [41:34]
Ilana Golan
And I love that. And you did mention in the beginning that you are a mom of four kids. How did that shape you? Do you think you see success or failure or resilience or something in a different way.
- [41:47]
Kim Perell
Well, I'm a mom of two sets of twins.
- [41:50]
Ilana Golan
Oh, my God, yes.
- [41:52]
Kim Perell
Oh, my gosh, you're telling me.
- [41:54]
Ilana Golan
So.
- [41:55]
Kim Perell
Yeah. And I find my sister actually has one set. So I finally beat her at something. So finally. Is that what you want? I'm waiting my whole life to succeed at that. But anyway, I think it was interesting with kids and now with the market and the world moving so fast, I constantly think about what am I teaching them and what are they learning. Resilience is the trait that they will need most in the world. And I think for me, it's like resilience and creativity and trying to really channel that and put them in positions where it's not going to be easy because life's not easy and you can do hard things. So how do I instill that? That's what I constantly try to think about myself. Just as we'd want our teams or employees. Like it's hard, right? So how do we make them capable of doing hard things?
- [42:47]
Ilana Golan
So let's go there for a second, Kim, because I know I'm debating about this, right? Because on one hand, now my kids are a little older. They're 16, 18. But on one hand, you want to give them everything. Comfortable and wonderful and a beautiful life, right? And finally we can. I didn't grow up like this. I didn't have all the things that I have now. So on one hand I want to give them everything. And on the other hand, when you give them everything, are you really growing up? Kids are resilient because they're kind of used to having everything. So how do you navigate that?
- [43:19]
Kim Perell
For me, it's really. I grew up with a very strong work ethic. You can't be what you can't see. So they see me and obviously I could sit on a beach. I don't. I love what I do. I'm very passionate about it. And I love helping others. And they see that. They see that I'm excited, right? And then Also, even at 6, they have chores, they do stuff, they have to go out and work. They don't get things that they want. And it's easy to give them stuff, to your point, but we really try to find what's the balance between giving and earning. And for me, trying to really make sure that were setting themselves up for success. I mean, I'm like, you're 18, you're out of here. You know, you better be thinking about that when you're 18. You know, just as my dad you're out, like, good luck. They're probably at 6, being like, God, Mom's kicking me out in 12 years.
- [44:10]
Ilana Golan
Clock is ticking. No, we're still best friends, so I'm still addicted to them. But, yeah, one is in college now, but okay, so now, in this fast pace of change, if you need to think about again, there's all these things coming our way, everything is moving at a pace we've never seen before. You called it speed is the word of the year. I agree. I think there's also adaptability and how to rise above the noise. There are all these things that are right now, I think, some of the biggest skills that you need to learn. How do you see that morphing? And what would you say to founders or individuals listening to the show and saying, I feel stuck, or maybe I've been laid off, but I need to figure this out and I need to not be in this situation again because I don't want to regret what should they do in this fast pace of change?
- [45:00]
Kim Perell
I think if you're a founder right now, it's never been easier and it's never been harder. Right. And I think that's actually the truth. How do you find the people that can support you on your journey? I really could not undervalue your network and like, who is actually on your team, who's mentoring you, who's your peers? I really go back to those people pillars because I think that's the foundation of all great success stories. I truly do. And are you investing in that? Especially in a disconnected world, you gotta get out. You gotta get out there. You know, no one's coming to your house to try to help you. You better get out there and go hustle. That is what it's going to take. And in the book I talk about, at the end of the day, I truly believe business is built on great relationships. No matter how much technology people buy people, people are buying from people. And so making sure that you have great relationships and great connections. And I spent a lot of time meeting with founders one on one and having coffee and putting yourself in places that you can level up, you can meet people and that you can learn from others. The more digital we get, I want to go back to the more relationship, you know, grounded, like with relationships. Right.
- [46:15]
Ilana Golan
Oh, so, so, so powerful. So maybe last words, that if you met Kim earlier on, like few decades ago, maybe in the kitchen table or as a kid, what would you tell her?
- [46:30]
Kim Perell
I would say dream bigger. Honestly. While caution could be a good thing, like don't let it stop you from swinging from the fences, right? I don't care if you're 20, 40, 60. There's never been a better time to start and now it is the time, right? And so have the courage to begin.
- [46:49]
Ilana Golan
So good. The mistakes that made me a millionaire is already in Amazon. I listened to it in audible. But where did they find you, Kim? And where should they go?
- [46:58]
Kim Perell
Please, yes, connect with me on LinkedIn, on Instagram, on Twitter, at my website kimperell.com K I M P E R E L L.com I have so many free tools there to help you get from where you are today to where you want to be. And I mean, really, I love entrepreneurship. I love helping other people succeed, and I look forward to connecting with you.
- [47:22]
Ilana Golan
Oh, so great to have you on the show, Kim. Thank you for coming and sharing. It was such a beautiful conversation. Thank you.
- [47:30]
Kim Perell
Thank you so much for having me.
- [47:35]
Ilana Golan
What a phenomenal conversation. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. Thank you. I love this topic. And first of all, I want to read a review from Apple Podcasts. Thank you so much, Jenna. That says keep listening. I'm not sure why I get out of the habit of listening to Ilana's podcast because every time I revisit her series, I get great information, helpful suggestions, and positive encouragement from the interview that she does. Ah, thank you. I appreciate it. So it's a reminder, this means the world. So go put a review, a five star review, please, because it helps us bring amazing guests. And if you want to add some words to it, I might pick you and read something that you added. But regardless, it just means the world. So it will take you two seconds. Just put a five star review. Share it. If somebody needs to hear about fear, about mistakes, about getting encouragement to not feel down when it's hard, please share this episode with them. It really, really means the world and it's going to help them. So thank you. The other thing that I want to say, once a week we pick a question from the YouTube channel Leap Academy with Ilana Golan. And we picked from Jordan, who is asking about how do you deal with fear, Ilana? And they basically had like a little bit of a longer question because they're basically saying, well, it looks like you're always kind of brave. You've been in the Air Force, so how do you deal with fear? And I will say, yes, I've been in the Air Force. And I will tell you, fear can be numbing. So the very first thing is to acknowledge the Fact that fear can be numbing. And by the way, it's interesting because even if you've been on this horse of success, when things are down, if you've been rejected, if you've been laid off, if you been stuck for a while, if somebody hurt your confidence, if somebody said something bad, it's actually interesting to see how that sometimes is roaming in your head. And we actually don't even remember all the amazing things that we've achieved. So I do want to talk about it. And for me, it was so numbing that I actually laugh at myself that when I wanted to start Leap Academy, I actually been through the entire Grey's Anatomy or series almost. Maybe not the entire thing, but I did binge so many Netflix series, especially Grey's Anatomy, because it was taking the fear away and it was numbing the fear. So I want to, first of all, just acknowledge fear will be there. Okay? So that's the first thing, what I really want you to think about, and I know that a lot of people will tell you, you know, just think about what's the worst thing that can happen. But the truth is, when you're at that moment, it actually looks really, really bad. I will look ridiculous. Everybody will laugh at me. I will look like a failure. All these things, they actually feel really, really, really scary. So it's okay to say, darn it, like, this is scary. And I don't know if that usually helps me, but what does help me is to surround myself with people that are somehow doing the similar things. What I mean by this, find your people, whether they're in Leap Academy or somewhere else or in the podcast or whatever it is. Like in Leap Academy, literally, we have people that I know for a fact that because they're in this together and they help one another, and they've been where everybody was kind of going towards bigger life together. And each person is different. Like some to a job, some need to leap to a new industry, some want to start their own company, some are creating portfolio careers. But because they're doing this together, it really, really helped. But even if it's in the podcast or your own environment or your own neighborhood or where your alumni, whatever it is, find your people and try to go there together. Because the truth is, the movement, the momentum, actually lets fear go away. Because suddenly you're in a doing versus being afraid. And the clarity comes from actions. The results come from action. Like, if you can switch from fear to action, everything will shift. The other thing is find people, whether it's mentors, Like Leap Academy, whether it's mentors in your own life. But find people that can actually give you a clear map of what your way will look like. Because the hardest thing is to navigate without a map, not knowing where you want to go. I mean, think about if you, if somebody would drop you in a completely stranger place with unknown language when you have no clue where you want to go, no map, no nothing, and now you need to start navigating and maybe they even blindfold you. That is bad, right? So if somebody can give you a map and make a very clear one, do this, two, do that. Now, it doesn't mean that it's going to be easy, but it's going to be simple to follow the steps. This is the engineer process that Leap Academy we do for people. But find the place where you actually get one, do this to do that because that creates from fear again to doing and knowing exactly what you want to do. And also surround yourself with people that believe in you because it's so easy to be surrounded by people that take you down. And whether it's because they knew you from way back, whether because they're just loom and gloom all the time, whether because they're always kind of a negative people. But make sure to surround yourself by people that believe in you, shine the light on you, but also are able to celebrate your wins and the little wins along the journey. So that's another reminder, celebrate the little wins. I was a person that never celebrated. I would only celebrate once we raised a million dollars or we did something big. And the truth is you can't persevere if you're not very strategic about looking back and see how far you've come. So make a habit of every day. Like even with my team, every week we celebrate the wins. Even with Leap Academy, we force them to look at the little wins. And, and the reason is because you can't persevere long enough if you don't look at the little wins along the journey. And actually when you do, you suddenly don't recognize the last year, you're like, whoa, I didn't realize I've achieved so much. So do that. The last piece that I will give you is really bring the data, not the drama, to the mix. And again, the drama will try to take over because we are a meaning making machine just as humans. But if you actually really strategize and say, okay, the data, bring the data, what is actually happening here? And when you actually bring the data, you will see, oh, I just got one rejection. Oh, I just got three interviews and they didn't go well. Right? But if you actually dumb down the data, you can now strategize and say, oh, okay, so I don't have enough interviews. That is the biggest thing holding me back. Let me see, how do I get more interviews? Because obviously if I have three, some of them will end up with rejection, right? Even if I'm a perfect candidate. So what you want to understand is actually where is the problem in the funnel? Whether again, you're after starting a business and you're funneling clients or you're funneling opportunities, you know, like interviews and job opportunities, etc. But whatever it is, what is exactly the funnel that you're trying to fix? What are you trying to fix? And once you understand that, then you can actually go and fix it. So I hope this is helpful again. Write me on the YouTube channel. Write us again. We want to hear from you. Do share. It means the world and just a lot of love. Have a beautiful week. Love you guys. Remember, this episode is not just for you and me. You never know whose life you're meant to change by sharing this episode with them. And if you love today's episode, please click the subscribe or Download button for this show and give it a five star review. This really means the world. Join me in helping tens of millions of individuals reinvent their career and leap into their full potential. Look, getting intentional and strategic with your career is now more important than ever. The skills for success have changed. Aq, adaptability, reinventing and leaping are today the most important skills for the future of work. Building portfolio careers Multiple streams of income and ventures are no longer a nice to have. It's a must have. But no one is teaching this except for us in Leap Academy. So if you want more from your career in Life, go to leapacademy.com check out our completely free training about ways to fast track your career. You'll even be able to book a completely free career strategy call with my team. So go to leapacademy.com training.