B (2:42)

Thanks for having me back, Alana.

A (2:43)

It's going to be super fun. So I want to actually take us back in time because speaking of compass, speaking of value, how was your childhood, like, how was being in school like for you? Because I think this is where we swarm a little bit.

B (2:59)

Yeah, it's not the first question. Question I asked too. It's always super interesting. It's amazing how people's childhood connects to what they do today. But I. In one of my presentations, I start with all my report cards that I found, like, a few years ago, and my mom dumped all my childhood stuff in my house, and I was like, oh, wow, it was pretty bad. I remember dreading those parent teacher conferences. But why? Look, I was a very creative edd, outside the box kid. It's just not something that our school systems reward. It's like, hey, he needs to sit down and be more quiet and pay more attention. Do you know Dave Rendell at all? He has a book called the Freak Factor, and he'd be a great guest for your show. So, Dave, it makes my ADD look mild. He's like 6 foot 7. He wears all pink, and he's like a global keynote speaker. And Dave was like, my whole life, people told me to shut up, sit down, and I can't remember the third thing or whatever. Like, sit down, shut up, and keep my voice down. I think that was it. And he's like, I make a living walking around talking and being loud now. And if people had said to me, you can make a living doing that, I very early on would have identified, like, that's what I want to do.

A (4:12)

But was it clear to you that you'll be successful?

B (4:15)

No. You know, I was constantly told year after year that I was basically an underachiever. And I didn't know what that mean because I couldn't get excited about stuff that I was learning. I wasn't interested into it. And when it finally clicked and when I finally figured out, you know, then I spent 10, 15 years overachieving and overdoing it and almost killing myself and, you know, driving myself into the ground doing that. So a lot of my work around capacity building stuff is really like, hey, what if. What if someone had come to me and said, here's how you can build your capacity and do things about what's important to you? And, you know, my foundation of that is sort of spiritual capacity and core values. And then it was like, all right, well, I got to help people figure that out. So I've been getting a lot of adults to have very vulnerable conversations, and I don't have market data on this, but I can tell you that in my experience, 99% of values come from formative childhood experiences where people are trying to double down on something that was very important to them or they are trying to do the absolute opposite of something that was painful for them or just didn't land right for them. I was trying to explain to someone like, you can come out of situations, you're all different person. And an environment can create a different response from two kids. You can have a kid who grew up in poverty and they grow up and they're all about saving, and then the other one grows up and they can't spend it fast enough.

A (5:33)

So true. I sometimes tell the story that my father would use to, you know, talk to me all about investment in stocks and all these things. And I was just like, I can't think of anything more boring than that. But it could have taken a complete different, you know, turn and say, oh, my God. But then I do believe success leaves clues which we going to talk about, right? Because it is part of that. But when you went to college, something clicked and you started loving learning why it happened.

B (6:04)

Right after my sophomore year, I kind of always could do enough to get by. Like, I was smart enough. And that's basically what all those report cards said. Like, he's. He's not really trying, but he's like, smart enough to get by. I never won any awards. I was never the head of anything. Like, literally. And then the college I went to has sort of a heavy prerequisite. So again, it's like, here's all the things you have to take. And what happened was I started entering the classes that I wanted to take. I realized I had a high acumen for business and marketing, and I kind of fell in love with those things. And then. And then I went abroad for six months and then I worked there and I learned there and I started reading and I kind of. Then, you know, it's interesting. Like, I actually want to learn all that stuff that I wasn't paying any attention to now because it has a context for me and I have a. It has a meaning. Like, I want to improve my own mental models. I wish I had paid more attention to AP History at this point because we're living it. I came back to school and I got like almost a 40 the next two years. It didn't matter. I was just taking all the courses that I wanted to take. And I just kind of. I realized, like, you know, something just kind of clicked that I was I loved learning. I just didn't enjoy what I was learning. And I think our education system has.

A (7:17)

A lot of flaws.

B (7:19)

Flaws. And I think there's some balance here. Whether it's a sport or a new subject. You have to go through some pain to figure out whether you, like, you can't just be like, after five minutes, be like, this isn't for me. Right. When you try a sport and you've never picked up a racket before, it's gonna suck initially. Right.

A (7:37)

And you're gonna be bad at whatever it is that you're doing for the first time. Like, it's always the case. Yeah.

B (7:42)

But I don't know why we're not. Like, there isn't a science gene in my family. Like, we have a lot of creative marketers and otherwise there's just. There's no. My brother married a doctor, but that's the only doctor in our family. I don't know why when people start showing an inclination or proclivity towards something, we still try to make them check all the boxes and we don't. The people that are brilliant writers weren't good at scientists. The brilliant scientists weren't good at music. Or maybe they didn't really care about social studies. And so the valedictorians underperform at the end of the day to what they should do because they're almost like, you can't be that good at everything. You were just kind of a rule follower more than you were passionate about something.

A (8:24)

That's a good point because again, we are learning to follow rules, which is exactly not what you want to do when you want to stand out and get out of the people's pile. And there is no zero or a hundred. There's a lot of shades of gray. There's experimentation, there's failing. There's a lot of things that we're just not taught in school.

B (8:41)

And Steve Jobs was all in on building computers in high school. Someone should be like, you know what? You really don't have to worry about poetry or this other stuff. Not your thing. Passion is, I think, is a little misconstrued. Like you're going to go find it or discover it. Like, passion comes from finding things that you're good at and that you like doing and that you're engaged in. Right. I don't know that you find your passion as much as you develop. People look at. At this pot at the end of the rainbow. I think that's a really, like. It may makes it sound like there's only one job or whatever. Like it. If you learn that you're someone that likes bringing order to chaos, there's a lot of applications for that for you.

A (9:18)

You don't have the evidence yet to even know if it's your passion, right? Like, when I started Leap Academy, that was not a passion. You know, it was like, is there any other person that feels stuck in their career? You know, like it was. It doesn't come with these passions. And I actually do want. You created this incredible agency. I do want to take you there for a second because you suddenly decided to leave the various jobs that you were in and decide to go with entrepreneurship, and you find yourself somehow creating a marketing agency. Can you walk through that path for a second?

B (9:52)

Funny, someone said to me years ago on like an interview, they said, well, how did you decide to start your marketing agency? And I thought about it for a minute and I laughed. And they were like, what's so funny? And I'm like, I actually don't know anyone who decided to start an agency who grew up and said as a kid, like, I want to start an agency. The story's all the same. I was doing this thing and I left the company and I helped someone with it and I did a good job and they asked me another one and I hired another person. And then I woke up 10 years later and I was running an agency that's just sort of no one's. No kid's dream is to start an agency. That's sort of what happened to me. You know, we got good at a couple things and I, for me, it was actually, I helped this company with something that had a huge exit in Silicon Valley. And it became the program that we built for them was really well known. And when there's an exit in the valley, right. People spread to all the other companies and suddenly they all started calling me and say, can you build that program, you know, for us here? And I could. And then I needed help and then I hired someone and then we got more, and then I hired another person and then, crap, I'm running an agency. So that's sort of my, my journey too.

A (11:02)

But entrepreneurship journey is really, really hard, right? I mean, there's a lot of, a lot of ups and downs. And I think you also share a hard moment. Was your kid when you just kind of woke up and said, wait, this is a wake up call, what was it?

B (11:17)

Look, I always say entrepreneurship is sexy in the rearview mirror. People talk about the sale of the company and the IP and they forget about all the bankruptcies. And the stuff that takes down families. In fact this story years ago where we were having a family, spouses to one of my like forms that I was in and one of the people were coming from flying from a closing where they were selling a majority of their business. And so we were kind of celebrating them and they came in, the wife was there and we're like that's amazing. Like congrats. And you know, they were making life changing money and she was like, it's hard to believe this journey had so many ups and downs. And the last time we were in that office was like seven years ago declaring bankruptcy. And I didn't think we were going to. And so someone from the outside would look at this and be oh they're so lucky and look at this. But you know, she was in on that journey and the pain and the roller coasters and the near misses and all that stuff. So my story was my son is 17. So this would have been 17 years ago. Hard to believe he's 17. And I had a few things going on that year. So we were building a house, we were living with my parents while we were building that house. I was starting a business and there was like a global recession going on. So this is 2007, 2008 and I was working like crazy. I was having, you know, couple cups of coffee in the morning and a couple glasses of wine at night. And one day my heart was racing, it just wouldn't stop. And I kind of passed out of my kitchen in front of my son and I completely thought I was dead of a heart attack. And I just had a mass. I got taken away in an ambulance and had a massive panic attack from just like just too much. Yeah, super wake up call. And you know, have made a lot of changes in my life then, you know, and I noticed in the after over the years I would have have a decent amount of mini panic attacks, like basically just totally overwhelmed.

A (13:12)

But tell me because when somebody has such wake up call, what what does it do? Like did you take any specific actions or did you just push it aside and continued grinding?

B (13:24)

Look, I started running, I started exercising in a different way. I started paying more attention to kind of health and hours and all that stuff. And you know we talk about values like health. Health and vitality was always a value for me. I think that was the moment when it elevated it, you know, in the stack. I mean I've had a bunch of different goals over the years. They had different themes. A lot of time they were financial, they were growth My overarching goal the last two years has been sort of health oriented. You know, this year I'm actually turning 50.

A (13:55)

And so my goal is turn 50 in January.

B (13:58)

Congrats. You made it. You don't look a day over 40.

A (14:01)

Oh, of course.

B (14:03)

But my goal is to be biologically 40 at 50. And I've been tracking that on my whoop watch. And I've literally been getting into the best shape I've ever been in, which has fixed a lot of other problems that I was having. And, and so that's the most important thing right now.

A (14:16)

So I love that there was like a concrete thing and I do believe that there's moments that define us. Like, I need to learn something from this because again, sometimes it's, it's the grind, you know, or doing the same thing again. Again, we're going to talk about that, some of that in the value. I want to ask you one more thing because at that point after that you're growing this agency, 300 employees. Like, this is a giant. This is not. You know, I want to make sure that the audience here is like, this is not a one man show. Like, there's, there's a lot on your plate. There's a lot in terms of managing, you know, something big. And then Covid hits. What happens in Covid?

B (14:58)

So Covid hits. We were on a great growth streak and I think in those first three weeks, you know, between 30% of our business either paused or said, we'll just pay you in six months. It was pretty scary. And that, that actually the stress of that and then, then going through for an investor at the end of the year, it actually, I think also caused health problems on for me over the next year or two. That was like those eight weeks were just physically and mentally exhausting. But we adopted sort of the Stockdale paradox principle, which was, hey, we're going to tell people the truth about the hard things, but we're also going to have a like, look forward viewpoint of like, it's going to be okay, but it's also going to suck. Think about it. You have two options. Leader. If you tell people just it's all horrible and it's all bad, it's going to like, like great. Like, if you tell me the ship's going down, I'm going to jump off, you know, and if you tell me just rainbows and unicorns, well, the ship is on fire and it's blowing up and whatever, I'm also going to think you're full of crap. We were super transparent with people. We even said we're going to have to make decisions. Here's our decision making model. Company people, clients, partners. It's funny, I remember early on because we had some 20 year old employees at this point were 10 years of a Goldilocks economy who had never seen a recess. They just never seen anything but, you know, good. And they were kind of like, why are you traumatizing us sharing all this information? You know, the first couple weeks and we're like, here's what we know. Like yes, there could be layoffs if we got to the like, here's what our clients are asking, here's what we're trying to do. We just felt like if we had that information, we should share it. And then interestingly like they're all have partners and companies and they weren't talking about anything and then suddenly their partners are losing their jobs and getting fired and all without any discussion. And then a lot of them came back and said actually like, thank you for, you know, even if it's scary, I'd rather like be in a loop about what's going on than not hearing anything and then, you know, being blindsided.

A (17:00)

And I appreciate that, you know, and it's a side note because I think transparency as a leader is really, really interesting to navigate. Right. Because like you said, you can't freak everybody out, but you also can't sugarcoat everything. They need to be all in on the bus, right? So there's that navigation is really complicated and I know that you talk a lot about it if you're feeling stuck, underpaid or unappreciated, or you're simply ready to take your career in life to the next level. I have the perfect solution for you. We have a program that helps you fast track and leap your reputation and career, become the best version of yourself, get the dream role you deserve, move up to leadership, jump to entrepreneurship, or even build a portfolio career. This program helps hundreds a year and it will help you gain the income, influence and impact that will transform the second part of your life. Watch our free training today@leapacademy.com free training. The link is in the show notes. Now back to the show. You said in the previous episode that every time a company doubles, you need to kind of reassess right what's needed and whether you want to lead it and all of that. And eventually you decide that you don't, you don't want to be the CEO.

B (18:16)

Yeah.

A (18:17)

Was that a hard moment or was it again, it's ties to the values and I want eventually for us to see your decisions.

B (18:25)

The values framework is all about those biggest decisions. And I talk about in the book kind of partner community and vocation. And look, every time your company doubles, you have to reinvent yourself as a leader if you haven't done it before. So as we went to a 5 million revenue, 10 million, 20 million like I had to be like do I want to be the CEO of a 20 million company? And by the way this is what I'd have to learn to do what I always liked. And I had a great partner number two who president was. I liked kind of focusing on the next year business. What are we going to do next year? What's the new idea? I was the R and D lab and he would run the day to day business and that's a great combo because operators usually aren't visionary and visionaries. Ironically like I can operate details. I can actually operate well okay, but I'm better in the, in the visionary role and but eventually like the R&D department was half the business. When you get to two to 300 people and you have board meetings and you have managements and you have check ins, I'm like I don't want to do check ins. I don't want to do whatever. This is just not. I set my ego aside and I said what does the business need and what do I want to do? You know objectively because they were. Our ego is really tied to it. I said the CEO of this business, it needs to be managing the management team doing these meetings. That's not what I want to do. I want to focus on leadership development, new products and new revenue and all that stuff. And I'll continue to be the R&D department. It's just 10% of the company now, not 90. And the CEO needs to be someone who's doing that. So I elevated my number two to CEO. He kind of was already doing that role and I gave myself the permission to do what I want to do. I didn't want to be the CEO of 50 million revenue company. I self identified that it wasn't the kind of work I wanted to do.

A (20:05)

And I love that because I think this is so important to have the ability to look and really admit what do you like and what you don't like and put aside what society expects. At some point you start elevate. Speaking of elevation, right. You start the elevate brand. By the way, it's interesting from last year I think we talked about 120 or 150,000 subscribers. You have 300 now.

B (20:31)

I've actually cut subscribers a little bit because I'm focused on engagement rather than just numbers. So turns out it's expensive to keep people on certain, you know, newsletter listen. Who aren't replying.

A (20:44)

Yeah, the bottom line, like, it's huge. You have multiple, multiple books and now you have your upcoming book. Why did that become the thing?

B (20:54)

This has been a centerpiece of my work for a while. I figured out my core values over 10 years ago. It changed everything about my life and my business. After a leadership training that actually identified for me that core values were really important and I probably was leading from them. It didn't tell us how to figure it out. So like any entrepreneur, I went and figured it out. I started then training a lot of our leaders on that process. Saw some great results, wrote elevate, talked about figuring out your core values. People are like, okay, I'm in on how do I do that? And I'd be like, it's hard. You know, I have a training program. I can't really send you that. That I do with people. So I was like, why don't I make a course? So the people are asking, I made a course over a couple thousand people took was kind of an hour and they could kind of get a good start on that. And I was like, God, I'm getting all these notes. This really works for people. Like, I want to get this to more people. I wanted to write a book, but I always, I had this vision of walking through a Barnes and Nobles and walking by this book called On Values and being like, no one will ever pick this up. It doesn't sound interesting. It doesn't sound whatever. I need people to understand this. I'm huge fan of Patrick Lencioni conversation with my daughter in which she was like, I challenge you to write fiction book because you live in non fiction world. And I am always challenging her to do something. And I was like, I wonder actually if I could show this rather than if I could take the framework from the course and build it into a story like he does. And then at the end, I'll tell you what you saw and how to do it. And it seems to be really resonating with people because it's a fun story. They can get into it. They can see themselves in the character. They've all been this character at some point, whether in their relationship, in their work and their community. It's a pretty quick and easy read.

A (22:36)

So in your book and just for the listeners, the compass within. You basically tell the story of Jack who mentors Jamie, right? To find her values and live her authenticity.

B (22:47)

I was going to correct you, but it's interesting how you presented it. The story of Jack who mentors Jamie is interesting. That is true. But yeah, that's funny because people start with Jamie, but it really is about Jack. So yeah, I've been accused of being both of them. There's a little truth in each of them. There's a lot of fiction. There's a lot of true things in the story that have no relevance. All my kids names are in there, but they're all minor characters so that no one felt left out.

A (23:13)

And I think this is really important. So let's talk about the compass, because it is about the compass. And I think there's a saying, the worst part is not being on the wrong path in your career because that one is screaming at you every single day. Get off, get off, get off. The worst part is being on a good path that isn't yours. So how do you figure out whether you are on a path that isn't yours?

B (23:37)

First, you have to understand your values in the way that I define them, sort of actionable core values. So you know, what are core values? Like, that's the first place to start. There are these non negotiable principles that guide your behavior and decisions. They're intrinsic, not aspirational. They reflect who you always are. They're really deep. They come from these childhood formative things, which is why they're central to you. So they show up in your leadership whether you realize it or not. Right. And that's, I think they're consistent across all areas of your life and work and they're clarifying, they help you make better choices. So I think it's like the instruction manual we weren't given. Now some of us have a sense of them. The problem is they have we. It's like get hitting the electric fence and knowing you're being electrocuted. Right? Like we know when our core values are violated. The goal is to like stay away from the fence and stay in the lines. I felt like again, I was values oriented. I could spit out things and say integrity and family. And those are not good values in my rubric of values that are actionable that you can make decisions on. But I couldn't really explain what was underlying that. And going at it by feel isn't the way to go. You know, I have had these five core values now, you know, for years, which is the finding a better way. And Share it, which is kind of my dominant value. Health and vitality, self reliance, respectful authenticity and long term orientation. And you can connect a lot of the things I'm doing in my life to those. They're specific. I can make decisions on all of those. I can know whether I'm doing the right thing. I mean, even in launching a book, like, there's some things that are like incredibly expensive, but they have a really high long term outcome. And I'm like, look, I'm someone that will trade a short term expense for a long term gain. Once you have clarity on those, you can then really start to align relationships and jobs and make it really clear that like, oh, like we won't pick on you, but like, boy, Sarah just rubs me the wrong way because she's just the opposite of two or three of my values. And so like I need to spend less time with Sarah. Yeah. And actually Jamie is super connected to my values, so I'm going to spend more time with Jamie.

A (25:47)

All of it is a yes. And obviously the people that you choose to be around will make a huge difference in how they rub you in the right way or in the wrong way, et cetera. And I think there's another element that I want to tap into because I think you call it maybe recovering achievaholic or something along the lines.

B (26:09)

I have said that.

A (26:11)

Right. I never seem to be like fully satisfied and always kind of moving the carrot and always moving the goal and on this like endless trademark. And I think for our listeners this will resonate because a lot of them are in the go, go, go, go, go, hustle, hustle grid. But the minute we are even close to getting to the finish line or the goal, the goalpost moves. So we're essentially, we're never methodology.

B (26:39)

I laugh when you say that because I was on an interview this morning with a friend of mine who started his own business and whatever and I asked him rhetorically, we were talking about the book, I was like, so let me ask you, we were talking about these different clubs for high achievers and self starters. What happens when you get the goal? When you get to the mountain, top of the mountain and he goes, well, you celebrate. Well, you celebrate a little bit and then you figure out what the next goal is. And I was like, exactly. I couldn't have said it. The view does not provide all of the enjoyment that you thought it would. And you realize that actually like, you're kind of addicted to the striving and like, unless you do the work to figure out why that is and what you're trying to solve for. You're not going to break that pattern. And. And I talk about three climbs. The first climb is like, you were kind of bullied into it by your community, your parents, like, go be a good doctor or lawyer or whatever. And you. You go into that career and you're climbing and you hate the climb the whole time, and you hate the top, right? Like, because it just wasn't your thing. Then probably this will resonate with you. Me, like, there's another one where you pick the climb and you go on it and you're like, I chose it. And it's fun some days and it's not. But you kind of think that, like, the whole climb is justified by that view on the top, right? And when you get there, it's going to make it all worth it. And you get there, and as we just talked about, you're like, yeah, like, my life doesn't feel better. Ironically, like, you sell the business, you get the check, you get the thing. Like, it doesn't bring the satisfaction and happiness that people think it's going to bring. The third climb, I call the Vista climb. And I think what's different is, so imagine, like, you start a little higher at elevation, it's like 5%. So you're sweating a little bit, but you're not dying. It's got an incredible ocean or vista view the whole time. You could climb it for an hour or 10 hours and you'd be happy and you're happy to stop. And you're not, like, trying to get somewhere. It's about what you're actually doing, right? That. That, to me, is the value. When you figured out the values align thing. And you can make a lot of money on that, but when you're doing something that really aligns with your values, you're less worried about the destination because you're enjoying what you're actually doing.

A (28:58)

So let me challenge you for a second, because I love this so much, because I've been on, you know, at least some of these. And I think what you describe as the middle one, right, that's kind of me and vp, you know, tick the boxes of success, you know, in a cool company. Finally, I figure out how to climb the ladder. Awesome. And then it's like, okay, this is not it. Right? Like, this is boring. And Leap Academy for me is probably the Vista. But I also want to challenge you because within that Vista, there's going to be a lot of days that suck. So I want to also, like, you know, put that in perspective, because how do you decide, you know, if it sucks because you shouldn't be on it or it sucks because it's always just gonna.

B (29:42)

It still rains on the Vista climb, right? Like. Like there's still an unexpected weather. So it's not that we don't have bad days, it's that it's a steep, gradual climb for which the climb itself is enjoyable. When you think about a lot of other climbs, you're willing to just, like, the climb is miserable and you hope the summit makes it worth it. That's the difference, I think, fundamentally, and.

A (30:05)

I think at the end of the day, it is about constantly training a muscle, you know, to think about. Like, I can't think of doing anything else in my life. Like, this is what I want to do. So I think there's also a little bit.

B (30:18)

And you're willing, right? You fight through it and you fight through those bad days because you believe in it, right? Not because you think there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

A (30:27)

Okay, so somebody's listening. They're stuck in their career. They want more for themselves, like, trying to figure out, okay, so how do I find my passion, right? How do I find what's next? How do I know if I'm on the wrong mountain? What would you tell them? And obviously they need to go buy the book when it's ready.

B (30:45)

There's a book, and the book comes with a course. If you buy it before launch, you can go to Compass Dash Within. But the first process in all this is answering these six questions. These six questions are meant to look at the times in your life when you've done well or didn't do well, and the things that connect with you and they help pull out the patterns of core values. So I put them@robertglazer.com 6 We can talk about some of them. People are always trying to write them down. So I just put them on the website for everyone. Answer those questions, like, start this process. The alignment stuff can only come after I know what I want to align to. I've done some work with people on this, Brian. They're like, look, they're someone who likes to. It's really important to them to build communities. Now let me walk through this. Someone who's has a strong core value of. I want to build communities and bring people together. Two things. Most cases they grew up on, like, a kibbutz, you know, or somewhere where that was actually the operating system. Or they grew up, like, super lonely and Isolated. And the way they got out of that was they learned how to be a community builder. So that's pretty deep for them. Right. So they might have known that. But then when they can really articulate it and get it down to something they can look at like oh, these two jobs. I was looking at the company and the glassdoor rankings and whatever but this is a job where I'm actually going to be asked to build and create community and this is a job that is going to be more transactional and on my own this is going to be a much better fit for me so that all the alignment stuff can't happen until you first are clear on what you're aligning it to.

A (32:18)

And I think this is really powerful, Robert. And I think it was the first time it dawned on me because when I talk about Leap Academy I always talk about kind of losing everything, you know, losing my startup, losing my career, losing like falling off the cliff of success. And that's kind of where Leap Academy started. But you tie it to values of wanting, you know, to whatever you shared community. And it took me to. Okay, so why am I doing this? Why am I passionate about it? And it was interesting because all my life I thought I going to be a doctor and help people. So it's actually kind of interesting how.

B (32:52)

That came was that let's go here, we'll do some psycho now let's see if we can test some of my. So why did you think you were going to be a doctor? Because your parents told you that was respectable or, or you let you generally like combination.

A (33:05)

I mean, I mean let, let's be real. Like I grew up in a place where you can really choose between being a lawyer, a doctor and later on it was like an engineer. Like really kind of the options for me, you know, I mean it's like, it's not like I had a lot of things on the menu but I think, you know, I did love the idea of helping people. I think that was always kind of a big thing for me and I literally thought that this is going to be it until the Air Force. And that kind of changed my perception. But yeah, definitely, I, I, I thought I gonna be a doctor all my life like from age 6. That's what I said.

B (33:44)

Yeah. And if it's interesting, if the reason was not, I love medicine but I like helping people. You know there are other, as we said, you find your passion, there are other ways to do that and right. There's probably even like a different, deeper definition of their like what does helping people mean to you? Does it mean helping make them better? Does it mean, you know, for just some people, it's, you know, that even has different connotations. But.

A (34:06)

And I think a lot of it is the thank you. Thank you. Right? It's like, oh, my God, you changed my life. It's the impact, like, it's. It's definitely sits there somewhere for sure.

B (34:15)

Well, let. Let's test with you. Because I always say one of the clearest signs of a core value and the way to do it is when that core value is violated, we really don't like it. Right. So this anti test is. Is pretty accurate. I've done this on a few different podcasts. We had some. Really. This guy went right back to his childhood. Yesterday. We got deep in there. Like, so, like, so what drives you crazy? What. What in someone. What does a. Imagine an avatar of a person at a party that you are, like, I can't stand this person. Like, what are they doing or saying or talking about?

A (34:49)

I mean, it could be somebody that usually they're hostile, they're. They're mean, they're. They're saying bad things. They're putting somebody down. They make me feel down. Like, it's just. There's. There's a mean.

B (35:03)

Disrespectful and mean. Like, I hear that. Is that. Yeah. So then the opposite of that, like, is, you know, showing kindness, showing empathy, showing understanding, probably being. Being respectful. Right. There's usually sort of an opposite that sits within that. Yeah. And then again, you'd say, like, if that's a really strong current, either two things. One, you're like, look, I. I grew up with people, really, that were kind, you know, or there was someone who was really mean, and it stood out as a real formative, you know, event. I mean, that's. This just always seems to be the case. This guy yesterday, he kept saying, like, I hate people who think they're better than people. Like, it drives me crazy. And it. And then he remembered the story from being, like, 8 years old where, like, this neighbor was, like, talking down to his son around, like, if you don't work hard, you'll be like Jimmy the you know, contract. And he just thought that that was, like, so repugnant and offending. You know, he just had this visceral memory that. That's when it hardened for him that, like, as in his organization, is super flat. It has no hierarchy. It actually is, like, very representative of people not being above anyone else.

A (36:10)

Interesting. You know, when people come to you how do they figure out? I mean, they read this story in.

B (36:18)

They read the book, they do the course and then I, you know, sometimes when I'm working with people on one on one or leadership development, they kind of share their values to me and I help them pressure test it. If they actually follow the course, it will do all of that for them. But people aren't very good at instructions so they, they skip that. I mean there's a specific thing like that. One of the things that I have, it's called the core validator. And to me it really differentiates a core value. So you're supposed to answer these six questions, start taking the answers, group up the themes, get a theme that really represents a value and you say, look, if I think this is a value, can I use it to make a decision? Like, is it worded in a way that like I can make a decision on it because that's how it's helpful. And when I imagine the opposite, does it strike a nerve? Right. So if it was like self reliance, I would be like, can I make a decision based on. Yeah, like am I relying on myself or not? Does the opposite of it drive me crazy? Yes. Like I, you know, people who are dependent, like even, even I have a joke with my wife and then my, my wife and daughter are not dependent generally, but they have a thing. I joke with them. I'm like, you are both good looking, but the worst lookers I've ever met. Because when they can't find something, they asked me to help them look for it. After 10 seconds of looking for it, I just don't understand in my mind why you would ask someone else to look for something before you looked for it. Like you try to do it first. Like that's just my natural orientation. So I get so frustrated when the two of them do that. I was like, I mean, if you've looked for an hour, like I'll help you out. But if you've looked for 10 seconds, it's still in the you problem, you know, world. So, so that's like again mine. And then, and then when you get down from the theme, like maybe in there it was like independent and self and whatever. Okay, yes, I can. The opposite of that drives me nuts. And then is it a phrase rather than a word? And I came up with self reliance because I think that was it. And could you, I could I objectively relate my rate myself on it? So could I say like, I'm doing a good job on this, you know, or not so a. It's gotta be a decision making rubric. And it's almost gotta be like if someone was giving you a report card, like, do you know if you do it or not doing it? So things like integrity and family, like, all fail this test. And in fact, those are the two most common ones. People tell me their value. I'm like, all right, what does integrity mean to you? And then we get in very different directions down there. For some people, it's tell the truth. For others, it's do what you said, you know, make your words match your actions. You know, for others it's even. And so that is actually more important to how they show up in different domains. I'm like, family, tell me, like, what's family like? Because do you think it's okay for the drunk uncle at the wedding to be, you know, grabbing people and dancing inappropriately because he's just family? Is that actually, like. Is that actually, you know, what you mean by a value? And they'll say, no. Well, family's like the trusted core unit of people that are there for you. I'm like, okay, well, that's, you know, different. Or family is like, you always show up, right? And, and when you start getting to those things, I can then look at their leadership and their friendships and say, now do you see that that's actually how you're operating in all domains? And it's more helpful to you because if all. If your core value is actually like, always be there and always show up and. And your family's a priority, that's how you show up for your family. If your friend, if you're running around like crazy and your friend's parent dies and you're trying to decide whether to go to the funeral or not, if you have a core value of always show up, you should go to the funeral because you're going to feel pretty bad about yourself if you don't. So people throw those out a lot. And I can tell you when we go a level or two deeper, it gets much more interesting as to what that means.

A (39:59)

So are your actions really aligned with what you say you value? We always kind of look at kind of what are your must haves? And again, we're more career centric, but it's kind of what are your must haves, what are the zone of genius? And how do you start experimenting with what is your career direction? But it's really interesting to kind of align all of these together. Yeah, your book is coming. First of all, they can already sign up, right?

B (40:26)

You can sign up@compass-within.com it's coming October 14th if you're interested. The book is like $17. The hardcover, the course is a hundred and you can sign up and put your thing in. You get the course for free. So it just makes a lot of sense to do it now. Once the book's live, go back to selling the course. And again, if you're, if you're just want to play around with those six questions, go to robertglaser.com six and answer them. And I'd reach out, I'd be curious to hear your answers.

A (40:54)

So maybe last thing that you want to share with the audience, one lesson that you wish you knew earlier in your career.

B (41:02)

Look, core values decisions which are hard decisions, they usually cost you something in the short term. And I have a whole bunch of, of stories about this I've been telling. It's, it's real easy to point your boat down the river when your boat and the river, your values in the river are going in the same way. It usually costs you something in the short term and long term. I, I think with this anchoring, you get a lot more confidence in doing something that seems a little bit painful today to save a lot more pain, you know, in the future. It's not that these things make it easier, it makes it harder. But I think about like in the last couple years, even with companies, there was a lot of decisions that were made that were virtue signaling and the very easy decision at the time. And companies got themselves into a mess rather than saying, this isn't who we are, we're not doing this. I don't care if people want to say, you know, we're in the business of farming tomatoes, not advocating for unrelated causes around the world. Right? And a lot of people got distracted and got off things and created more divisiveness versus I look at someone like the Basecamp guys, you know, they, in the middle of all this, they say, we're not doing politics at work. It's divisive. It goes against our personal values of people feeling comfortable and getting along. And we're a software company. People told them they were going to be on the wrong side of history and a third of the company quit. By the way, their applications went through the roof of people who want to go work at a company where people aren't posting politics on company channels all day long and they are thriving and doing better than they've ever done. And other companies who decided to like, wade in and try to do what was popular, you know, their businesses and their stuff is a mess years later. So they believe so deeply that it was divisive and not something that they on a personal level that they were willing to lose their business over it. And you know, it was a rough couple weeks and months and they're so much better for it in the end.

A (42:58)

Thank you, Robert. That was phenomenal. And I can't wait to read the book and to, to see, you know, because it's exactly what I believe in.

B (43:08)

And excited about it. Yeah. There's a whole trainable sort of curriculum on it. So if it's, if it's good for your, your what you're doing, like, definitely let me know for sure.

A (43:16)

Amazing. Robert, thank you so much for doing this.

B (43:20)

Thank you, Al.

A (43:32)

I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did. If you did, please share it with friends now. Also, if you're feeling stuck or simply want more from your own career, watch this 30 minute free training@leapacademy.com training. That's leapacademy.com training. See you in the next episode of the Leap Academy with Ilana Golan Show.