B (2:41)

Absolutely. You know, I think one of the most unexpected things. So anytime we have to do the party trick where it's tell us one unexpected thing about you. I love to tell people that I grew up on a farm in a little town called Holly Hill, South Carolina. And the town was so small that when we got our first fast food restaurant, we had a parade. And that's the thing I remember the most. It wasn't one stoplight. There were two stoplights in town. But the first fast food restaurant, Hardee's, which is still there, was such a big deal. And, you know, so I say that because it was a really grounded upbringing. It was on my family's compound. My dad's family owned the land for a long time. I grew up around my aunts and uncles and cousins. There were so many. And so there was this kind of, you know, very specific microcosm where everyone kind of looks like you and are similarly profiled socioeconomically. And then, you know, I had this big transition when my parents divorced, and I was about 11 years old. Well, I was nine when they separated, and I ended up moving to the suburbs of Charleston. So it was like a bigger town and a bigger school, and it wasn't such a monolith. And, you know, that was one of those first big transitions. I think the, you know, it's so important. My son's going to a new school this year. And as tough as it is to see kids make the transitions, those muscles of resilience that we build even earlier in our youth, you're surprised how they pay off. So those big changes, those big leaps and having to take it all in and figure out how to adjust, you know, that was a big deal. But when I was a kid, you know, I was always told I was really smart in school, I loved to write, and I truly believed that you could only be what you can see. And so I used to be completely fixated with Claire Huxtable on the Cosby Show. And so probably until I was about 16 and had my first internship, I would tell everyone I wanted to be a corporate lawyer. So that was the thing. I was going to go to school to be a lawyer because I was going to live the Huxtable lifestyle. And I had the opportunity to do an unpaid internship in high school at a radio station locally. And that really shifted things for me. Then I thought, oh, well, you know, journalism could be a thing, and folks could actually make money off of this. And so by the time I went to college, it was with the intention to go into journalism. Oh, wow. And I started my college career at Clemson.

A (5:09)

Yeah, that's incredible. And that was kind of what brought you into the entertainment space because you were also in like, you know, Sony and Facebook, like you went to some big places. So it's like what happened there, much.

B (5:22)

Of it serendipitously right. So I always talk about my career as more of a river than a ladder. It just kind of flowed and bended in sometimes unexpected places. So I went to Clemson largely because of scholarships. And it was a school I admired in the state, it was in South Carolina, but it was far enough from home that my parents couldn't pop up. And there was a comms, so I was a communications major. And it was a pretty broad communications major at the time. And so if you were going to be a speech therapist or if you were going to be a journalist, you were kind of in the same kind of. And I was having an amazing time. And I was a performing arts minor. I fell in love with the arts. I had the most amazing professors. And then I think at the end of my freshman year I took this transformative trip to D.C. and decided I really wanted to go. I would like to live in the city at this point. And so I started looking at schools there. And it would have it that I found American University, where I recently just joined the Dean's advisory board for the School of Communication. But I really fell in love with their school of comms. You know, really sort of bridge journalistic storytelling with a lot of film and tv. And at this time I was starting to think I didn't have the words for it, but at the time I was starting to think more about transmedia storytelling. So yes, journalism, but what would film and TV look like? What would documentaries look like? And it was a cozy enough school that was academically rigorous but was really committed to liberal arts. So, you know, there was this kind of cocoon like environment in this larger city that made me feel like a real global citizen. And I decided to transfer. I started going to American after my sophomore year. And so at this point still a communications major, switched my major to visual media, thinking I would go to film school afterwards. And because I was going to a more expensive school in a bigger city, it was more expensive. So I worked a lot my last two years of school. One of those roles was at a PR agency. And at that PR agency, because we were in dc, had lots of government clients, industries that were related to such. I ended up being introduced to this communications firm that was UK based, called Rapier Group. And they did a lot of face to face communications, aerospace, telecom and defense Clients, not in an industry I thought I would ever want to go into. But I'd been in school and I was like, oh my God, I really want to make some money before I go back to school, to film school. So what I thought was, let me take two years off to go work and come back. Ended up starting the sort of river of my career. So I go, I take this job at this company first, you know, working on BAE Systems accounts. And I got promoted really quickly. And the promotion was to do this top secret. I guess I can talk about it now. It's years later, it's all public, but it was this top secret account. It was for Raytheon. And they were unveiling a missile system called Slam Ram. And we were doing all the marketing for it and all the preparation. And the night before, we're, you know, they're rolling sort of the system onto the trade show floor. And I think it was the first time that it hit me like I'm literally marketing weapons of mass destruction. I think it was very, just cerebral. Before that, I had no attachment.

A (8:34)

But that's beautiful example, because sometimes you're so in a minutia and so much in the day to day that you don't even take the 30,000 foot view to understand what is the scope, what is the mission, what is the legacy of what I'm actually creating, which is so common, by the way.

B (8:48)

Absolutely. And I think, you know, when you are depending on where you are geographically, where you are socioeconomically, sometimes, you know, I developed a love for storytelling in all forms, advertising, film, tv. Because stories are really transformative for me and really connective. So they connected me or drew a line between where I was and all of these things that I could imagine or achieve or these places that I could go. So, so often in order to articulate or even sort of conceive the vision, you first have to see some inkling of it first. And so I think while I was in college and working in that program, I really started to understand the transformative power of narrative. And I said, in some way, I have to be connected to this. And then after applying that in a way that really didn't fill me up, I realized that I needed to do that for things that I cared about and that I believed in and aligned with my values. And so ultimately, this kind of guiding light for my career about telling stories that empower, that entertain, right, that provide some sort of joy and doing that way that was accretive to our culture, that really amassed more ownership, more Visibility, more positive presentation that became the guiding light. So I knew where I wanted to go. But I've been pretty flexible, sometimes by design and sometimes by necessity about how I got there.

A (10:11)

Makes sense. So tell us because your journey is incredible. Like if you kind of look at don't take me all the way to the end, but it's like even just like what you've done in Sony, what you've done in Facebook, like you've done some big things in different agencies before that. So you've done some big things.

B (10:28)

Yeah. You know the first leap I took. Right. So I don't know if it was a leap or a push into comfort environment when I was younger, then this leap to a different city and a school and this leap into this industry, when I realized that that industry wasn't for me In a very 23 year old manner, I was like, okay. Or 24 year olds was like, I'm done with this. I'm gonna move to Atlanta and I'm gonna do something. And I ended up, I won't give you the details, but very serendipitously working for the Atlanta Film Festival. It was probably the poorest I ever was and the most fun I've had at cause it's a nonprofit organization. But there was something so fulfilling about being around artists and about helping them to tell their stories. What was interesting was though, my entree into that organization because I was planning events in a B2B capacity, was event planning, running their sponsorships. And there was a board member at the Atlanta Film Festival who had a digital marketing company. And I was saying, hey, we have these two film festivals a year, but I want to figure out how to create more evergreen revenue. And he was helping me to do so and eventually said, you should get into digital advertising because you have a real knack at this and this is where the future is. And that led to my leaving there to go to the first kind of boutique agency, Definition 6, in Atlanta, which is still around. You know, there were lots of opportunities that came out of that. And I ended up being recruited for other agencies, digital agencies in market, and landed at Moxie Interactive, which was the largest digital agency in Atlanta at the time. They had just been acquired by Publicis. I had no idea what the big four holding companies were at that time. And I was working on Verizon Wireless, which was a huge client for us. It was like 70% of the agency's billings at the time and working in the department and to found the department that was social media. So this was Very new. Everyone was speaking now how to drive customer service and marketing and awareness via then Facebook and Twitter. It was this figure it out as you go along kind of first mover advantage and the visibility there and the impact that I had there led to me being recruited by vmly, by wpp to go to VMLYR and open up the emerging media department in their New York office. So that was the agency arc and I had the opportunity to consult some of those amazing clients. Revlon, Colgate, Palmolive, Saks Fifth Avenue, Toys R Us. I mentioned Verizon, Coca Cola. And then there was a guy who was on my team and he was really incredible and really quirky, which is like the most amazing person. And he was resigned to go take another job. And as he was leaving, he said, you know, you really remind me of my former boss. And it was okay, like he's like, you guys should meet. And he made an introduction between the two of us with no other context than that. And we still laugh about it. And that introduction from someone who had been assigned to me by a company that didn't plan to join is what led to me joining Sony to, you know, partner with his former boss who was building out a huge direct to consumer platform for artists there and had this idea about carving the company out and doing a management buyout. Again, I hadn't gone to B school, I hadn't yet made my way to film school, and so things like nbos and private equity. I was an advertising girl, so I had no point of reference for it, but once exposed it was, oh, I can figure this out. I started partnering with him to architect that I was their VP of consumer marketing and then SVP of consumer marketing and client partnerships and really led the strategy that we use for the carve out. When we did the management buyout and sold it to a private equity group, they had a different point of view on what they wanted to do at the company. And so I ended up saying, okay, look, you know, what's next? And Lionsgate at that point was one of our clients. So that was like my first parade because we started working with non Sony, but I didn't go quite to Lionsgate first, right? So we talked about a role. I was like, I don't think this is the right one. I went to Facebook and right after I got there, that's when the Lionsgate call came, which was, hey, you know, we're about to launch this thing with Kevin Hart. What about this one? And I had just joined Facebook, so, you know, I Hadn't been there long enough to think about taking another leap. So that was one of those. We kept talking over the course of probably a year and I had been, while at Facebook, going through a really difficult time fertility wise. So Facebook the meta. But it was then Facebook had great fertility benefits and my husband and I weren't ready to start a family yet. We weren't thinking about it. I knew the clock was ticking, but I assumed I had plenty of time because I thought I was so young. I went to go freeze my eggs and in doing so found out all this other stuff that not only was that going to be difficult, but any of the natural paths that we thought about were going to be difficult. So fortunately, financially it wasn't an issue because they were covering everything. It was a really robust sort of fertility benefit, which is one of the things that I think a lot of scaling companies are getting right and I constantly encourage women to take advantage of it. Just biologically, you're kind of born with all the eggs you have and if you want to use any of them, you should think about it because no one talked to me about that. So I was really devastated. And I had been going through, quite frankly a full on depression by this time because it just was completely unexpected. Failed rounds of ivf and then I thought, okay, like I just needed a change of pace. So I came to LA to take the role with Lionsgate three months before the platform, which was then Laugh Out Loud would launch. It was a joint venture between Kevin and Lionsgate and I moved to LA in April of 2017 and then by July of 2017 I was pregnant without assistance. I know. So it was the now two babies, a new company coming to market and then the actual baby. Yeah.

A (16:33)

Oh my God, that's such an incredible story. If you're feeling stuck, underpaid or unappreciated, or you're simply ready to take your career in life to the next level, I have the perfect solution for you. We have a program that helps you fast track and leap your reputation and career. Become the best version of yourself, get the dream role you deserve, move up to leadership, jump to entrepreneurship, or even build a portfolio career. This program helps hundreds a year and it will help you gain the income, influence and impact that will transform the second part of your life. Watch our free training today@leapacademy.com free training. The link is in the show notes. Now back to the show. First of all, when you moved to Lionsgate, did you already feel like that depression start lift off because again it's also hard to move when you're depressed. And it's unrelated to some extent.

B (17:29)

It really is. You know, for me, it felt like a fresh start. I really internalized it. Even though I wasn't sure at the time when I wanted to have kids, it really hit me like a ton of bricks that I was somehow failing, that I somehow, even though I was flexible about how I got there, I felt like I was sort of checking the boxes at the right time frame, right. In terms of where I should be. It's like, you know, college degree, check. You know, married to a great guy this time, check, check. You know, kids will figure it out by 36 or so, check, check. And so it was this record scratch and I didn't realize because I had been so such a careerist for the 10 years with these amazing, unexpected often and you know, sometimes there are pitfalls during the process, but a 30,000 foot view, it just looked like an acceleration right for the first 10 years. And this was the first time where I was presented with a challenge that I just couldn't do anything about, you know, at least in the way that I thought. So we started thinking about, you know, other ways of building a family, but it was just personally pretty devastating for me. And so when I moved to la, I just had a new project and it was so busy and I had to put together the full go to market and monetization plan in less than three months.

A (18:46)

Put it aside, basically.

B (18:48)

Exactly. So it was, it was a good distraction. The air was lighter, it was cleaner, and, you know, it sort of gave me an opportunity to say, I've definitely had a picture of what this needed to look like before and now I can just sort of redesign. I can design again what the full picture looks like. And I think the minute though, that my body and mind was out of that acute stress that was naturally supposed to happen, just happened.

A (19:12)

That's incredible. That's incredible. And before we go on to your career, because that is incredibly important, if you do talk to somebody that is a woman, 34, 35, very driven about her career, what would you say to her?

B (19:27)

I would say, quite frankly, what my colleague at the time told to me because I thought it was so invasive. I worked with this woman, her name was Megan. If Megan, if you listen to this, I'll send it to her. She said to me, she was saying, oh, you know, she told me about the fertility benefit because, you know, you're starting a new tech company. I hadn't worked in big tech in this way. And I was like, yeah, I'll get to it. We're not having a child now. And everyone was so casually talking about freezing their eggs or fertility planning. She said to me, just think of it as insurance. And she was so open with what she was going through. And I think it was just that she understood that, just the pure biology of it. So this isn't, you know, so I always give the recommendation. It's not about whether or not you want children or not. It doesn't matter what your family construct is or if you don't have one. You want to do it alone, you want to do it partnered, whatever that configuration looks like. It's about maximizing optionality. So if you have the means and that's something you're even directionally interested in or did want to decide later, fine. Because I do think that biologically there are just certain considerations now that said, there are all kinds of ways to start a family. I think so often as women we're just taught to go, go, go, go, go. Especially now in some places, achieving equity in stages and you're trying to keep pace, but it's very different. And it's one of those things, you know, even at Heartbeat, when I was just designing our parental leave and family plan, I wanted to make sure that it was a gender neutral policy that was made available to everyone. Because I realized even centering biological females in that context mean that biological males have. If you're the one who takes the leave and the other person can't, that always isn't a benefit. Sometimes it's a demerit or you gotta take the time out. It had a profound impact on my thoughts on leadership and building organizations. It was the first time that I think I had to be truly empathetic because again, you just assume and you're in. Especially in an organization, say like a Facebook or Sony, where it's exciting and it's innovative. And I was working on teams where people were. Lots of the organization were, you know, around the same age as me. You never really consider everything else that everyone's going to. Every day someone's showing up to an office with cancer or infertility or grief or anxiety and mental health issues. We just have to package it and put on. And I think that like that was the first time because I was packaging things to show up that I had to consider. Oh, wow, I wonder what everyone else is carrying with them in here every day.

A (22:03)

That's incredible. So that essentially also made you a better leader because you understood things in a different way, which I love. There's something about what you said, which I. I don't know if I thought about it, and I don't think I've talked about it in the podcast, but it's true. Like, as women, you're expected to kind of have it all together. Right. You're supposed to. Like, if you're driven, you're supposed to chase the career, but you also have to have the kids and you have to have this, and the house needs to be intact and like, it's supposed to. Right. Anyway. And otherwise, you do feel like a failure. Like, if you don't, if it doesn't work, it does take a toll on you, even though it makes no sense. But it does.

B (22:41)

Right? Right. By the way, even if you opt not to for whatever reason, I think even that comes with a level of judgment. There's a certain level of identity politics that women experience in the workforce, and I'm not saying that is some sort of crutch. I think it's just the reality of when it came to IVF or when it came to family planning, it was just the reality of my experience as a woman. And so I say to other women, without being invasive, it's just make sure maximizing your optionality all the time.

A (23:13)

I love that. And again, Lisa Bilyeu, we had her on our show and she just said she didn't want kids. But that came with a lot of judgment too, by the way. Right. But again, you. You have options, which I love what you're saying, Ty. And so you join Landsgate. It's incredibly exciting. I don't know if you knew Kevin Hart by then. Did, you know, laugh out loud. And they're like, so how did that go?

B (23:36)

And so a lot of folks think in the beginning that I came to LA to work with Kevin. I didn't know him. I met him through Lionsgate. So the way that the team was structured at the time, there was sort of a shared services group. They had a few streaming services before, you know, the full integration of Starz. And, you know, one was Comic Con hq, Tribeca, Shortlist, and ours was the third to launch, or Depantaya launched before us. We were launching right around the third and the fourth launched together. So we were right with Pantaya. And so we all initially sat in Lionsgate as Lionsgate employee, you know, walk the halls in Santa Monica every day. And it was a true joint venture. So Kevin, of course, was very involved. But when it came to sort of like the go to market and the strategy and the planning on this side, that was really a part of Lionsgate's contribution to the venture. And it wasn't until. And so obviously I got to know him during the, during that process, was just incredibly impressed by his business acumen, his creativity, his sort of singularity and being able to balance the two. But I didn't come to work for an entertainer. I came to work for an entertainment company. Because at that point my thought was this guiding light mission of telling stories that empower and entertain and you know, by the time I left Sony, I started thinking about that mission not just as telling stories that do those things, but also to build ventures that accomplish those things. And so I thought, oh wow, this is an opportunity to really do that at scale for a product that I really care about, speaking to audiences who look like me and who I can really identify with. And so I was checking all of those boxes, but I very much thought of it from the studio lens. And it wasn't until there was like an evolution of strategy within Lionsgate as they were, you know, integrating and scaling stars and thinking about where these smaller streaming services sat. When we were decisioning what was going to happen with Laugh out Loud that we made the decision to carve the business out of Lionsgate. So when Kevin bought out the majority of Lionsgate's interest and we went independent, I became COO of the new venture. I had been gm. That was the first time for a couple of things, right? The first time sort of partnering directly on the creator side. It was the first time in a truly entrepreneurial state because everything else had been very entrepreneurial and we completely re platformed the business and it was also the first time leading a capital raise. Our very first capital raise was a strategic one. So Comcast came on as an investor after we left Lionsgate. We became a strategic programming partner for Peacock as they were launching and we re architected the business strategy to go beyond a streaming service. We actually sunset the streaming service at the time, the direct to consumer app, and you know, went really aggressive into the fast streaming space. We launched a live events division, did a lot of work with brand partners and so we really became this multi platform entertainment company that grew on a really meteoric rise, doubling revenue year over year. We were profitable upon carve out and continue to maintain profitability, doubling the size of the team just about every year. It was just this rapid growth in a really exciting time. All while I had this little human who was hitting all these milestones at the same time. And I was trying to figure it out. But, yeah. So, again, I need to stop saying serendipitous because I'm a person of faith. It was completely divine in that respect, because I couldn't have imagined it. I had an intention set, definitely, but I couldn't have told you that these were the specific steps. And in fact, a lot of those steps or those opportunities looked like challenges in the beginning, or they looked like they could have been hurdles, and they ended up being accelerators. And so one of the things that I've learned just through my journey, and I try to remind myself all the time, is just to trust the process or, you know, trust the divine that's guiding the process. Like, I work, I do everything that I can to contribute to a situation, but ultimately, there has to be, you know, there has to be great conviction, great work, but then I think there has to be some faith just in things are going to work out the way they're supposed to work out.

A (27:50)

Was there a certain challenge that you remember vividly that you're like, oh, my God, like, what do we do? Like, is there.

B (27:57)

There were quite a few, you know, when we first. Because I always say the only thing harder than starting a new business is carving out a business from one, and that's having carved the Sony piece out, and the same here. And so. And I say that because we were configured initially to be very integrated into Lionsgate's infrastructure. So when we carved the company out, Kevin was touring at the time. And so I remember, like, having to, like, move the team over to a new space and figure out everything from payroll to, you know, like, I was like, oh, every lines. They handled everything. And so, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs figure that out at hello. As they're building. And we were kind of looking back like, okay, how do we. How do I reverse engineer the basics? We were growing, but we were on another infrastructure. And so I think that was huge in terms of figuring that out. But what I loved about that, and that's why I said the, you know, a hurdle turning into an accelerator. It was like a crash course in entrepreneurship. And all of a sudden, when you're not just sort of, like, running it up the chain, you know, five levels, and you're accountable for every penny spent, and you're accountable for every single decision made. It creates a level of ownership and visibility and accountability that allowed everyone who was. It really empowered everyone who was at the organization at that time to really think, like owners and entrepreneurs. And that tough transition that actually, I believe, fueled all of the meteoric growth in those, those early years.

A (29:31)

Oh, that's powerful. And it makes a lot of sense. So quick question. So you talked about at some point you guys raised like a hundred million dollar or whatever. Like, you know, was there like, you know, the typical, you know, story of different raising capital has also a lot of rejections and a lot of thing like, is it because you came from, you know, was it Kevin Hart and like, you know, and some brand? Like, was it like really easy or was it still hard?

B (30:00)

Oh, it's not like negative, the whole process. So again, it all happened very fast, right? So we, this company went through so many different iterations. It was really a different company every year. The mission and vision were the same. And that's what was so important, right? The mission was to keep the world laughing together. And the vision was to build one of the most powerful and diverse entertainment companies in the world. And so that didn't change. That still remains today. And I think that's the signal of a powerful mission and vision. Folks can lead come and go, technology can shift, business models can even shift, but that core value proposition is one that sustains and endures. And so that guiding light and his vision for the company and his sort of insatiable work ethic, all of those things were in the alchemy of the people who were there at that time, just contributed to it. So the way it worked, we carved out, we've grown, growing, growing. And at some point, Kevin asked me to expand my role to also be COO of Heartbeat Productions, which was his film and TV banner, because we were sort of like the digital first and then streaming company. And I did that for I think like a year where it was leading the two, and then started saying, I really think we should merge these two companies. Right. We're kind of growing into each other's backyard. And I believe there's a one plus one equals billion dollar proposition. So what was interesting about the raise is that we were both merging those two companies. When we finally decided to. I was leading the merger of the two companies while I was leading the capital raise with our, with our partners at EMC. And so we were putting these two things together, two cultures, two companies, you know, sort of two P&L's, balance sheets, cap table together to form that and then out to market at a time where I, you know, and I say this for anyone who, you know, raised capital during that time, celebrity or not, yes, there was a lot of interest after Reese's deal and LeBron had, you know, and the Spring Hill team At the time, had done a big transaction. But, you know, PE does not invest, you know, out of, you know, pure.

A (32:07)

Yeah, it's not just love. Yeah, exactly.

B (32:09)

Yeah. There has to be an institutionalized path to return. There has to be real action assets to justify the enterprise value and there has to be real rigor and belief in the team that they're investing in. And so we had to check all those boxes, build all of that infrastructure under the hood. And even then, obviously, is it easier to raise capital when you are arm in arm with one of the most prolific entertainers in the world? Absolutely. Relative to someone who's out there trying to steal their venture. But for the amount of capital that we were trying to raise and the terms that we wanted to do so to fuel the mission that we did, you know, it was definitely one that was, it was, it was merit based. And, you know, there were lots of, you know, twists and turns during that process. You know, I remember I was on my bathroom floor with like a fever from COVID Like, it was. We were just pressing through, we had everyone distanced and we decided to do a holiday party in the, you know, outside there was a holiday dinner. It was, everyone was tested and we did it outside. And still somehow it wiped out like a third of us. And so it was the most miserable moment. But again, I think that that process gave me the confidence to know, oh, you could do those things, you could do anything. And what was more gratifying, it wasn't just closing the capital raise, but it was delivering on everything that we said we would that first year. So, you know, when you're raising that way, you're doing it on a forecast and saying, hey, we're going to deliver this. And so nothing felt better than, you know, having promised someone something and then, you know, exceeding those expectations. And all of the growth, all the accolades, the volume, the velocity, it was just, it was an incredible run.

A (33:55)

Amazing. So, Ty, and I'm curious, this is an incredible story. So I actually spoke with Julia Hart, she's the CEO of Eventbrite, and she talked about kind of being first time being the CEO and casting herself and is like how overwhelming this can be. And I always say that the difference between number one, one and number two, three, four, five, whatever it is, is like light years away. And I feel like nothing prepares you for it. What was it like for you to transition into the CEO of Heartbeat One?

B (34:24)

You know, it's been about a year and a half since I've, I've been gone. And so I've had an opportunity to do a lot of reflection on just the process and my approach and what it takes to sustain and have the energy level to do that, to do it at even greater scale. Right. And really imagine sort of the context and how I want to do it and who I want to do it with for this next chapter. But you know, one of the things I always told myself so I came in to the first venture laugh out loud as I think my title was SVP of Consumer Marketing. And so I was responsible for go to market, I was responsible for audience development. And I had expanded my role to taking on monetization within six months because I regardless just approached everything like an owner, like I need to know all the parts, even if I'm only in the context so that I can align stakeholders, even if I only had to do this one part. And what's interesting is where that became my M.O. was at that first company that the, the one where I was doing all the aerospace and defense stuff because I was a project manager. So my job was to understand the 30,000 foot view and deliver things on budget, on time with Matrix Partners. And even though I might be responsible for the project going well, you just have to touch all the pieces, all the resources and ultimately deliver. And so I think that in some ways I really approach every aspect of my career, whether it's a capital raise or a rebrand or the merger of two companies with that project management sort of mentality like okay, what are all the pieces on the table? What's the objective? When does it have to be done by when, at what standard? And so I always was looking at the whole board. So to me, and I just had a. I'm the oldest of blended family of seven so I always felt like I had took on this ownership first birth order kind of mentality and that was the approach that I took. So I don't. So I never felt I'm not capable of doing this by the time because I was already doing it. And that goes for every promotion that I ever received. My approach was never to go to someone and say I think I could do this. Could you give me this shot though, by the way? I think there's nothing wrong and more women need to be sponsored and given the opportunity to shine. I always took the approach where I'm already doing the job that I'm asking you for. So let's just acknowledge it formally. So I would say let me prove it, have the results. And then so by the time that I was designated CEO was already driving Both P and ls, I had already driven the first capital raise, the brand strategy, the client partnership. So every aspect of that business I was touching and orchestrating. So it was just a natural progression. I think what I was not prepared for, and this is when I think we have to be more candid, especially about the expectations of women, is knowing how not to internalize everything. You could oversee it all, but, like, you can't wear it all. Energy is capital. You have to be careful how you invest it. And while I don't think it can be created or destroyed, you can deplete yourself. And I think that you have to have a certain level of EQ and distance in order to be able to navigate and endure. And I found myself feeling, at times, quite frankly, just particularly burnt out. Right. And I think that there is sometimes an archetype of what women leaders should look like and how they should show up. We hear all the CEO and whatever like, no, we're just humans. We're humans leading. And humans need rest, by the way. But we do often are in these social constructs where we have certain expectations in terms of gender roles. But at the end of the day, a woman who was on my team said something that stuck with me forever. This is in the earlier days. And I was like, we're like a family and we're going to do this as a family. And she said, no, we're not a family. We're a team. And I thought, like, my initial response because I was so passionate was, was, oh, my God, like, she's really separated from the mission. But no, she had healthy boundaries, and that was the right construct to think about this. Teams are close. They do work in coordination. Everyone does have a role. Teams are also incentivized appropriately, and they have agency, and they make decisions, and the teams have to invest in them, and the players have to invest back in the team. And that was a much healthier stance to take, because as a CEO, you're not a parent to the organization. Right. You're the leader of that team and the leader of that enterprise. And so. So that's one of those things, in terms of just managing energy and fuel, is that I want to be very conscious of moving forward.

A (39:05)

But let's talk about that for a second, because I think burnout is real. And when we burn out, we take it out on everyone around us, whether we like it or not. Like, there's gonna be casualties. Because I don't believe in full balance. Like, I do believe some kind of balance is a myth. Like I think you can have it all, just not at the same time. So there's like a little bit of like. But there's like a little bit of like, presence. Like, how am I present with my kid at that time? And I'm present with my team at the time and I'm present with myself and I don't eat myself alive at three in the morning. How did you find that to work.

B (39:39)

Out during the pandemic? Because I had so much free time on my hands while running these two companies and leading capital raises. I used to, for. For almost. For two years, I had a podcast with actress Tika Hunter, and it was called the Suga. And it was all about parenting for modern moms with the focus on black and brown moms. And that to me was such a blessing and a joy during the pandemic because I had my first child, my only child, and I was trying to figure out if I was doing it right. And I was completely overwhelmed by all the things. Even though I had a fantastic team at work, I have a nanny and an amazing partner and my husband's grace, like, super hands on. And I was still always exhausted and always feeling like I wasn't in balance. And to me, the best thing was just hearing all these other women and moms come on. We started talking about parenting, but by the end of season two, we were just talking about life. And the consistent thing was we'd get midway through the conversation and finally someone, you know, finally like, let go. And it's like, I don't have it together either. And that to me. So one of the things that has caused me great anxiety throughout my career are the times when I assume I'm supposed to be doing it better or differently and I am beating myself up to get there. And when, if you give yourself the grace to know that even the person who you feel like has the most package doesn't have it all figured out and, or you're able to look behind the curtain of all that it takes and all the people and all the resources that it takes to make it work. I think letting yourself off the hook is the best thing that you can do. And the other piece is like, I don't know if it's true of everyone, but for hot capacity individuals, I don't want to not work. I love building. You could, you know, send me on vacation. I'm still going to be, you know, anchoring and thinking and checking on things. It's just how my mind works. So I don't even think it's like the amount of hours in a day. To your point, I think it's about, are you present? Are you treating yourself well? Are you treating other people well? Are you able to advocate for what you need in the capacity of your busy life? That might look different for other things, folks, but there's. I don't believe there's a single way and I don't believe that balance piece, if it is achievable, I have not achieved it.

A (41:55)

I don't think anybody has. But I love it. But I think it's really. I think you. You nailed it. Like, I think it's really more about stop being hard on ourselves. Because the hard on ourselves is what kills it, right? Like, because the truth is, it's not about the quantity of the time, it's the quality of the time anyway. So the question is, is, you know, are you happy when you're in every capacity? Right? And I think at the end of the day, that's like all about that.

B (42:23)

And you can be happy even when things are hard. Right? So for me, it was never a measure of. Are the long hours draining me? Are the long. The things that, for me, are those energy drainers and stealers? Are, am I around people who respect me or no? Right. Am I being respectful of other people or no. Are my opinions, Is my personhood valued? Am I doing things that light me up? Like the. The function of what I'm doing for. If I'm going to. To spend 16 hours today doing it, the function of those activities, are they things that I enjoy or they're things that I at least feel fulfilled in because I know that they're going to lead to a greater good? When those answers are no for me, it shows up in my body and my attitude and all those other places, and it's incredible.

A (43:03)

And I love that conversation because I think it's absolutely important because we try to have it all right all together. But after a while. Ty, I'll just take you there for a second. You did about a year and a half ago leave Heartbeat, and it's been, what, seven years in that ecosystem, you know, from. I don't know when you joined. So how did that emotionally take you? Or because you were still involved with a ton of organizations, which I want to take you there as well. Yeah.

B (43:33)

You know, what's interesting is so, you know, we talked about all of my career transitions, and I don't know if it was because of the length of time or because of the very personal nature of working in an entity that is the namesake of an individual, right. That it, I think publicly feels so much more personal, you know. So I think that I was very surprised by how much folks had kind of attached my identity to the organization. That was really interesting to me because I never felt that way in any other company. You know, like, I always was like, oh, I was at Meta, it was great, like, and so to me, it was two things, right? It made me know, it very much informed what I wanted to do next. But it let me know how important it was for, from a brand perspective, from a executive perspective, to be very clear about like, who you are, what your values are and what you contribute. Because at the end of the day, I'm Ty and Ty does what, you know, she wants. And I'm building my career and my, my family vision. And I think it's important to have that level of agency. And so to me, yeah, I think it was very surprising just to see how much more linked and again, very different as the. And there are lots of contributors. I was the CEO of that company, the architect, like I said, of so much of what we did and the length of time that I was there. But I also think those are the types of things where, if you feel, whether it's an entertainer led organization, whether it's a big name tech company, I think just anything where you feel like you have handcuffs that will cause you not to pursue and not handcuffs by the company, but your own mental perception. If you, if there's anything that is keeping you from taking a leap that you feel like is ultimately fulfilling your purpose or to taking that next stage, it's probably then at that point what turned into what was once an accelerant or has now become something else. And that's really about how we perceive things individually, where we are. It did take some sort of, of like redefining of like my own personal go to market after having been, you know, sort of so attached to an organization for so long and you know, to an individual who, again, powerful and prolific. And so you start to think about how you talk about your own self outside of, you know, and I think.

A (45:53)

That'S so powerful because the listeners, if you are listening to this episode, everybody, I think a lot of us are in this position. Like, I was there about a decade ago when suddenly I realized that all my identity was always attached to my title, to the company I was with. And I was like, who is Ilana? Without it, like, there was a little bit of the, like, oh, gosh, like, who, who am I? Like, you know, I, I know I achieved a lot. I ticked a lot of boxes of success. But who am I without this title or who am I without this company? Now, again, it's a little different with you, Ty, because you're involved with a lot of organizations, and we'll talk about that.

B (46:29)

Them.

A (46:30)

But I'm sure there's a little bit of, like, I need to redefine, Right?

B (46:34)

Absolutely. And a part of that is because I think a part of it proves that you were really successful and committed to the thing that you did. Right. Because there's a moment, and I think it's like the first Sex in the City. It's either the last season of Sex in the City, it's the first film, Right. So I'm going to quote Samantha. She's dating Smith Jarrett. Very profound business advice. And she's dating this guy, and she's his publicist. And she breaks up with them because she says, I realize I say your name more during a day than I say my own. It's interesting because you could be at any organization, and the minute where you put more stock into the organization than yourself, then there's a difference. Because that's coming from someone who is 2000% committed to any organization that I am with, whether I built it from the ground up myself or whether I attach myself to it in any capacity. I don't know where the boundaries are. It's like, I leave it all on the table. But to your point, if you're feeling like you're lost or you don't have an identity without it, that's when you're like, oh, my God, am I. Am I so reliant on this to define who I am? And, like, whose life is it anyway? You only get one, and you only get one career. And even if you choose to stay someplace for 20 years or 50 years, you're going to invest all of your time into that place. It's even more important. And that, to me, is something I only found out with distance. Because in the spirit of transparency, when it would come up from other folks who worked for me, who I saw, like, driving these boundaries and these independence, sometimes I would interpret it as, are they loyal to the company? Are they on board? But the truth is we're all architecting our own journeys, and we're all trying to navigate that for ourselves. So it's one of those things that was definitely more of an earned lesson than just the learned one.

A (48:18)

Right. And I think also we are. Are looking at a change in the whole way careers are built. And we're right there on the cast of this change. Because it's true, what you're describing is exactly what was there, you know, a few decades ago. Like you should have been loyal and stay in the same place for whatever, 10, 20, 30 years and you know, retire with a golden watch. But it's like now it's like almost the extreme of everybody has like multiple streams of ventures and income and portfolio careers and, and it's like everything is shifting and there's like this middle time, you know, that we're living in.

B (48:51)

Yeah. You know, we really transition into this ownership economy. And so I think that for leaders and enterprises, incentive design has really shifted. Right. Like where we thought that it was the pension or the long term. It's really about are you sort of providing equity and incentives and the type of life management opportunity in real time that allows folks, incentivizes folks to invest in you over this period of time. And is the organization one that can cycle through and keep attracting the right type of folks or you know, design more sustained incentives? Because we do want to own and everyone wants to no longer just be work for hire. But the number of folks now who fashion themselves creators in the U.S. it's starting to, I imagine a couple years from now the lion's share of the general public public will fashion themselves creators and creator entrepreneurs. And so there has to be something inherently entrepreneurial and or creative with the level of agency if we're going to really incentivize and satiate folks who attach themselves to organizations. Because I think that's all what we're looking for. Right. We're looking to continue to drive and evolve our own identities. We're looking to continue to improve our lives and the lives of our families. And the old playbook for compensation incentives just don't cut it anymore.

A (50:13)

No. And if you're going to look at the top millionaires, I think that ratio is something along the lines, and I might butcher the name that numbers, but it's something along the lines. I think it's over 64% have more than three income streams. You beg the question, so why are we not teaching this in school? You know, like, why is Leap Academy, you know, here? Like we should have been out of business because this should have been taught in school and college.

B (50:38)

College.

A (50:39)

Right. But talk to me a little bit. You are involved with a lot of things.

B (50:44)

Absolutely. I've been on the board of Rock the Bells, which is Eloquill J's company, since inception. Over the past, I guess year or so have been really helping them expand into different areas and led the organization through a brand transformation. And it's just been an exciting time. It's, you know, sort of like one of the leading experiential companies in the music space, but they do storytelling, brand partnerships, and we've just been having a lot of momentum. So I've been doing, you know, more strategic advising. So on the board there. I'm an investor in Brain Trust lp which invests in inclusive beauty brands in the space. And that's been amazing, seeing the evolution of many of those companies. And I am cooking up something new which hopefully we will talk about soon, that I've been working on for over the past year that really brings so much of what we talked about today to bear. And what's interesting, when you talk about taking the leap, I don't think it would have been possible if I had not had every single one of those experiences that we talked about. It really is the culmination of everything I've done in my career to date where venture building and partnering with creators and, you know, working really closely with brands. And so, yeah, the. The river continues. We're still going to keep flowing.

A (51:55)

Oh, my God. Ty, this is incredible. Take us to just one last thing that you wish somebody told you earlier in your career because I can totally see as you were telling the story, I could also see the patterns of what created tie to who you are. But what would you want somebody to tell you early on?

B (52:13)

Yeah, I think that it is going to be as hard as it is fun. Right? Like big, so. And it's expensive. Like big careers are expensive, big risks are expensive. It takes a lot emotionally, you know, you're doing something entrepreneurially. It can take a lot financially. It takes a lot from a timing perspective and you know, the time you spend with friends and family, like your intellectual, you know, capital that you invest, these are expensive endeavors. And so you just want to make sure that your time, your energy, your intellect is well spent.

A (52:44)

Kai, this was amazing. Thank you for sharing all of that.

B (52:48)

Lifewise, you were fantastic. You were so engaging. I was ready to talk about all the tactical stuff in you.

A (52:54)

I guess active, you'll leave that to other shows.

B (52:59)

You're fantastic. You're such a great interviewer. You're so warm. You're right. Like, this should literally be taught in schools. Appreciate the work that you're doing. So, so impressed by it.

A (53:08)

Oh, thank you, Ty, for everything. It was fantastic.

B (53:11)

Like what? Like.

A (53:24)

I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did. If you did, please share it with friends now. Also, if you're feeling stuck or simply want more from your own career, watch this 30 minute free training@leapacademy.com training. That's leapacademy.com training. See you in the next episode of the Leap Academy with Ilana Golan Show.