If You Want to Have Life-Changing Conversations, Ask These Tough Questions | Topaz Adizes

Summary

Leap Academy with Ilana Golan Episode Title: If You Want to Have Life-Changing Conversations, Ask These Tough Questions | Topaz Adizes Release Date: January 28, 2025

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Introduction

In this enlightening episode of Leap Academy with Ilana Golan, Ilana engages in a profound conversation with Topaz Adizes, an Emmy Award-winning writer, director, and Edmund Hillary Fellow. Topaz shares his journey and insights into fostering meaningful human interactions in the digital age. The discussion delves into the power of asking the right questions to facilitate life-changing conversations, both personally and professionally.

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Topaz Adizes: A Journey of Connection

Topaz's Early Life and Motivation

Topaz begins by recounting his childhood experience of his parents' divorce when he was just four years old. This early disconnection ignited a lifelong hunger for authentic human connections.

Topaz (02:54): "I became a filmmaker for 15, 20 years. And then the last 10, 11 years with my experience design studio called the Skin Deep. I'm really interested in how the experience, the emotional experience of being human is shifting."

His academic pursuit in philosophy and passion for cinema led him to explore how conversations and shared experiences can bridge gaps between individuals. This foundation laid the groundwork for his mission to create spaces where genuine interactions flourish.

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The Power of Questions in Conversations

Shifting from Negative to Constructive Inquiry

Topaz emphasizes the importance of framing questions constructively to elicit empowering responses. He likens the mind to a faithful dog that chases whatever "stick" is thrown to it.

Topaz (00:21): "Should I fire this person? Should we launch the product or not? Should I leave my job and start a startup? Okay, wait, change the question. Create a better, more specific, constructive question. And then the answer becomes obvious."

This analogy underscores how the nature of our questions directs our thought processes and, consequently, our actions and outcomes.

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Creating the Space for Quality Conversations

Establishing Safe and Intentional Environments

Topaz discusses the necessity of creating a conducive space for meaningful dialogues. He differentiates between safety and comfort, advocating for environments where individuals feel safe yet are encouraged to step out of their comfort zones to foster growth.

Topaz (21:56): "You're creating a space where people feel safe, but not necessarily comfortable. Let's not confuse comfort and safety. You're creating a space where people feel safe, but not necessarily comfortable, because then you're growing."

He introduces the concept of intention versus agenda, highlighting that intentions invite open and vulnerable exchanges, whereas agendas often lead to surface-level interactions driven by predetermined outcomes.

Topaz (23:17): "An intention is, okay, you show up and go, guys, we need to make a decision... The intention is that we'll come up with a solution. Exactly what the solution is, I don't know."

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Constructing Better Questions

Techniques for Formulating Empowering Questions

Topaz elaborates on methods to develop impactful questions that drive meaningful conversations:

1. Brainstorming with Specific Frameworks (27:09):

   • Timeframe: Incorporate a specific time frame (e.g., next three years, next month).
   • Emotional Impact: Consider how the situation makes you feel.
   • Impact on Others: Reflect on how decisions affect your community or relationships.

   Topaz (27:09): "What in the next two years can I do so that I feel like I'm growing and challenging myself? Such that I'm in a position to have a family life with my ideal partner?"

2. Question Loops (31:00):

   • Continuously ask "why" to delve deeper into motivations and reasons.

   Topaz (31:00): "What would it give you? What if you already have it? Why?"

3. Using Question Cards (32:02):

   • Utilize pre-designed question decks to explore various facets of a central challenge or enigma.

   Topaz (32:02): "You list out the question, the big question you're asking, the enigma, the challenge you're facing. Then you randomly pull out questions that I ask and you answer those in relation to the big question."

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Applying Questions to Relationships

Enhancing Connection Through Thoughtful Inquiry

In the context of relationships, Topaz outlines five key aspects to consider when formulating questions:

1. Avoid Binary Questions:

   • Steer clear of yes/no questions to encourage deeper dialogue.

   Topaz (35:04): "Don't make them binary... So we are not talking about 'Why do we fight so much?' but instead, 'What is our biggest challenge in the relationship right now? And what do you think it is teaching us?'"

2. Empowering Nature:

   • Frame questions to empower rather than to assign blame or create defensiveness.

3. Connective Questions:

   • Acknowledge the unique dynamics of the relationship in the inquiry.

   Topaz (35:04): "Ask a connective question that acknowledges the people in the conversation."

4. Creating Pauses:

   • Formulate questions that encourage reflection and connection between disparate ideas.

   Topaz (36:00): "Make the questions connect two disparate ideas. They have to create a pause so you're exploring a new space between two neural nodes."

5. Intentional Presentation:

   • Offer questions as gifts of curiosity rather than agendas or confrontations.

   Topaz (37:35): "If you can offer the questions as a gift versus an agenda versus an attack... then people are more willing to open up and come."

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Personal Experiences and Lessons

Navigating Difficult Conversations

Topaz shares personal anecdotes illustrating the challenges and benefits of engaging in tough conversations. He recounts his early startup days, where avoiding uncomfortable discussions led to strained relationships and decreased team performance.

Topaz (14:51): "I learned that if I didn't have that conversation with them, the longer they festered, the more painful they would be later."

Public Conversations with His Father

Highlighting vulnerability and open dialogue, Topaz discusses his public conversations with his father, emphasizing the courage required to engage in uncomfortable yet meaningful exchanges.

Topaz (39:33): "Our colleague at the time, Rosie, wrote the questions... That creates a safe space of equanimity."

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Relationship with Money and Business Sustainability

From Artistic Passion to Sustainable Enterprise

Topaz delves into his struggles with maintaining a healthy relationship with money while pursuing his artistic passions. He explains the shift required to transform his approach from purely value-driven to ensuring sustainable energy flows within his business.

Topaz (42:02): "When I understood it was energy, what that meant for me was, okay, I'm going to put something out into the world. It's a lot of energy. Hopefully it has enough value in the world such that more energy comes back so that I'm not depleted."

He highlights the importance of aligning business goals with personal values to prevent burnout and ensure long-term sustainability.

Topaz (44:12): "What it is, it's a becoming... it's like it's a signpost. But what it is, it's like it's a becoming."

Advice on Business Growth and Personal Goals

Topaz advises entrepreneurs to ask themselves what they truly want and align their business models accordingly, rather than succumbing to external pressures or societal expectations.

Topaz (50:14): "What is the question you're asking yourself... what it is that you want? And then let's shape your business around that."

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Wisdom for the Future Self

Reflecting on Growth and Learning

Both Ilana and Topaz share insights they would offer their younger selves, emphasizing the importance of asking for help and valuing personal growth over rigid success metrics.

Ilana (54:22): "How much more is possible? And again, it's one small step at a time, because we're just impatient people."

Topaz (52:19): "If you could go back to any point in time, where would you go? When would you go? And what would you tell yourself?"

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Conclusion

This episode serves as a powerful reminder of the pivotal role that thoughtful, empowering questions play in shaping our lives and relationships. Topaz Adizes provides actionable strategies to cultivate meaningful conversations, emphasizing the necessity of creating safe spaces and framing inquiries that foster connection and growth. Ilana Golan and Topaz's exchange offers listeners valuable tools to enhance their personal and professional interactions, ultimately leading to a more fulfilling and impactful life.

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Notable Quotes

• Topaz (00:21): "Should I fire this person? Should we launch the product or not? Should I leave my job and start a startup? Okay, wait, change the question. Create a better, more specific, constructive question. And then the answer becomes obvious."

• Topaz (02:54): "I'm really interested in how the experience, the emotional experience of being human is shifting."

• Topaz (14:51): "The longer you don't have that conversation with them, the more uncomfortable the relationship would become."

• Topaz (27:09): "What in the next two years can I do so that I feel like I'm growing and challenging myself? Such that I'm in a position to have a family life with my ideal partner?"

• Topaz (37:35): "If you can offer the questions as a gift versus an agenda versus an attack, then people are more willing to open up and come."

• Topaz (52:19): "If you could go back to any point in time, where would you go? When would you go? And what would you tell yourself?"

• Ilana (54:22): "If I'd known a tenth of what I know now, I know we would have been a billion dollar company by now."

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Key Takeaways

1. Ask Empowering Questions: Shift from negative or binary inquiries to constructive and specific questions that open up possibilities.
2. Create Safe Spaces: Establish environments where individuals feel safe to express vulnerability and engage in honest dialogues.
3. Intentional Conversations: Differentiate between intentions (open-ended, exploratory) and agendas (pre-determined outcomes) to foster genuine interactions.
4. Continuous Growth: Embrace the practice of personal and professional growth by regularly reflecting and adjusting your approach based on meaningful questions.
5. Sustainable Business Practices: Align business goals with personal values to ensure long-term sustainability and prevent burnout.

By integrating these principles, listeners can transform their approach to conversations, enhancing both their personal relationships and professional endeavors.

Transcript

[Topaz]

Your mind is a faithful dog. It will chase any stick you throw.

[Ilana]

Topaz Adidas. Today we're talking to an Emmy award winning writer, director, Edmund Hillary fellow. And you are right now on a mission to create powerful human interactions in the digital age.

[Topaz]

I don't know even if I like humans, we do some terrible things, but I love humanity. And what is humanity? Humanity is not what's in us, it's what's between us. If you see yourself in a negative mode, beating yourself up, you're asking a disempowering question. Should I fire this person? Should we launch the product or not? Should I leave my job and start a startup? Okay, wait, change the question. Create a better, more specific, constructive question. And then the answer becomes obvious.

[Ilana]

How do you create the questions that actually start creating results?

[Topaz]

There are three exercises you can do. Let's start with number one, Foreign.

[Ilana]

Topaz Adidas. Today we're talking to an Emmy award winning writer, director, Edmund Hillary fellow. I mean your work Topaz was selected for super prestigious festivals like Cannes and Sundance and so many more. And you are right now on a mission to create powerful human interactions in the digital age. How did this become a calling? How did you get started, Topaz?

[Topaz]

I got started in my parents divorce as a 4 year old. I get started feeling disconnected from the two people I love the most and who did not seem to find a way to connect. That's where this pain became hunger. And then in my twenties I was studied philosophy and was trying to find how I can contribute. And I was really interested in cinema and a camera and talking to people, to ask questions, to have conversations, to feel a sense of connection to other people. And I would think yeah, it's because when you're a kid and your parents get divorced and your world falls apart and you're looking for that sense of connection, that was my experience for me. And so then here I am in my 20s with a camera and I realize the camera is a bridge, it's a door opener. You show up to someone with a camera and you ask a question, in some sense it gives you a door opener. It's a bridge. And so I became a filmmaker for 15, 20 years. And then the last 10, 11 years with my experience design studio called the Skin Deep. I'm really interested in how the experience, the emotional experience of being human is shifting. And that's what I've been, my team and I have been exploring for the last 10, 11 years.

[Ilana]

I want to talk about the skin deep and the end. But let me take you Back in time for a second, Tupaz. And thank you for sharing. Talk to me a little bit about what came about, because, again, it probably didn't process enough or you felt you didn't talk to them enough. What came to you there and why did that become such a big motivator for you to open these conversations and to figure out the real truth?

[Topaz]

Now, I don't know the makeup of my personality along with that experience of a feeling of lack of connection. So I went in the opposite direction. I searched for connection, I searched for intimacy. And, you know, my 20s and 30s, as I was exploring my own romantic relationships, I could feel the reverberations of the divorce in my own patterns, in my own way of how did I circumnavigate around people emotionally? And I'm talking about the intimacy. And I think in 2014, when you looked around the world at the time, you saw how technology was shifting so much politics. It was shifting the financial currencies with cryptos coming out and dating. I mean, people using dating apps. And it was really coming. And I was single at the time in New York, and I just saw how technology was shifting the way we were relating to one another. But at the core, like, if we go to this seed, I believe, for me, at least in the current understanding of my life and the current vantage point of looking back is a sense of disconnection as a young child trying to make sense of this huge world. And I think that there's a book that I read was super helpful for me. I. I don't remember the author, but it's the Unexpected Legacy of Divorce. And it was super helpful for me because, you know, the underlying idea is that for those children who are, you know, the children of divorced families, in the back of your mind, you have this sense that everything will end. Whether it's a friendship, romantic, or even a work partnership, you assume it will end. So whenever you're in a relationship of any kind, you're in the back of your mind, you're like, okay, how's this going to end? And if you ask the question, how's this going to end? Well, there's a multiple ways that it can end, but in the book, it says for those who do not come from divorce families, they don't have that conception of the world. Things don't necessarily have to crumble and fall apart. And I think that is one effect that I saw as a lingering effect from that childhood for many of my 20s and 30s, in relationships is always like, how is this going to end. So that doesn't bode well for the longevity of a relationship when you're looking at about how it's going to end, because really, you're trying to just protect yourself. Right. But if you're protecting yourself, you also can't necessarily extend beyond the reaches of the wall that's protecting you. So you're limited in the emotional experience you can have because you are protecting yourself. You are both protected by the walls, but you're also captive to the walls that protect you. Effy. Effy.

[Ilana]

That's fascinating, Topaz, because I was exactly there until I found my husband. Now, I was exactly this. I would push people aside, you know, in a way, because I knew that I'm basically shielding myself from that potential separation. It's incredible to hear you now.

[Topaz]

Yeah. I mean, look, I'm not a therapist, and my experience comes from really being very curious of human nature and being able to create spaces where you could, or one can have a real experience. And in this sense of the. And I've been honored and privileged to be in the space. My team and I. I haven't been in all 1200, but my team and I have been in the space for over 1200 conversations of all kinds of relationships in about 10 countries. And that is where I come to you now with my experience. Not only my life experience, but obviously, you know, how many people get to really see that many conversations between people in a real intimate way? And even if you think about therapists, therapists get to see a lot of conversations. But therapists are part of the conversation. They're guides within the conversation. If it's a couple's therapy, they're asking questions, they're guiding here. I pose the questions. You sit back, and the participants are having a conversation, and we witness that. And that's a really honored place to be in. And there's a lot of learning and illumination that comes up inevitably from being in that privileged position.

[Ilana]

And I want to take you there, I guess, for this reason, but I want to go there a little deeper. Right. In 2015, if I'm not mistaken, you produced the documentary the End, which honestly grew to become this viral sensation experienced by over 150 million people. Why do you believe this turned into such a success? And how did you have the guts to say, this is what I want to do?

[Topaz]

Why did it become a success? Why did it become viral success? Why did it speak to people? Because people in a digital world, they needed a sense of humanity. And we are the corner of the Internet where you can get a digital dose of humanity. And the question is, what was this guy talking about? What is humanity? I don't know. Even if I like humans, to be honest, we do some terrible things, but I love humanity. And what is humanity? Humanity is not what's in us, it's what's between us. When do you feel humanity in your life? When you have that incredibly intimate conversation with a total stranger, like we used to before phones, and you're walking on the street, or with a taxi cab driver, before we were all lost in our phones in the elevator or in the airplane, or in that random moment, we had this conversation with someone, and you sense a greater sense of us, whatever that means. You're not alone, and you get a sense of this connection to humanity. Or you're in a sports team and you're all striving for the goal and you win or you lose and you sense this sense of connection, coherence with other people. Or you're in the business team and you're struggling for to hit a court or something, or to get the product out in time or to make an incredible video game, whatever it is, and you succeed and you look at each other in the trenches, there's that sense of connection that there's something that we're doing together that we can't do alone. That's a sense of community. Or in your relationship, you get in a big fight with your partner, you only want to talk to them, and you explode and you have a conversation, and at the end of it, you come back together and you sense, you know what? We're stronger. I'm not alone in this journey of life. That sense, all this sentiment of coherence, resonance with other people, because you're on a common journey, you're sharing an experience, albeit unique to each one of us. That's what humanity is to me. And I love it. It gives me a sense of greater amplification of what it means to be alive. And so that drew my interest into the and, which was what's the and? The and is about the space between. Because a relationship is not you or I, us or them. It's you and I, us and them. It's the and that connects us. It's the and where humanity lives. So how do we cultivate that? How do we illuminate that? And that's what we've been able to do with the and because we bring people to a room, put them facing each other, we film it with three cameras, and for anyone listening, just go check us out on YouTube or TikTok or Instagram, wherever. And you'll see moments where people are faced and we show you both their faces at the same time. And that's what's important. It's both faces at the same time. And we can talk about why that's important, because very little footage these days of any type of media content. You never see both the speaker and the listener at the same time. Here we are showing you both because we're saying it's not just the listener that's as important as a speaker, it's both, because everything we watch is just the speaker. You always see the person speaking. Anyhow, long story short, that's the end. And to me, that cultivates the thing I love so much, which is humanity. And the privileged position I've had from watching that is, oh, I've over 1200 data points, 1250 data points over 11 years now, is how do you create the space to have these type of conversations that illuminate our shared humanity?

[Ilana]

So talk to us about this space, because I think again, you're going to have hard conversation or crucial conversations everywhere you go. You're going to have it with your bosses, with your peers, with loved ones, with partners, with kids. What makes a space?

[Topaz]

Before we go there, I just want to frame it. It's not that it's about having hard conversations. I would suggest a formula like this. And you hear Esther Perel, who's, you know, the incredible thought leader in the space of relationships. She says the quality of your life is commensurate to the quality of your relationships. Right. The more quality relationships you have, the more the quality of your life. Okay, if we believe that's true, great. I believe it's true. Let's say that's true. Well, then, what makes a quality relationship? And one thing, one way to build and to cultivate a quality relationship is quality conversations. So one suggestion is quality. There's acts of service, there's okay, but one of them is quality conversations. We're humans and we have the gift that we have language. We can communicate these ideas and these feelings and communicate to another soul, to another heart, and share that. We can communicate. We can have conversations. It's great. So when. What makes great conversations for you?

[Ilana]

It's questions.

[Topaz]

Quality questions. Exactly. It is the space in which you hold those quality questions. That's it. If you create the space, we can talk about what that means and we construct really quality questions. We can have incredible conversations. If we have incredible conversations, we have incredible relationships. If we have incredible relationships, we can have an incredible life.

[Ilana]

So talk to us more about these questions, and you have a full book on that. But talk to us a little bit about these questions, because I think it's so important people don't know what to ask and how to go there.

[Topaz]

If you're looking to have a conversation where you're exploring the grave, you're exploring your relationship, don't ask a binary question. If you begin a question with is, are, do, should. I don't care what comes after those words. If you start anything with is, are, do, or should, it is a binary question. Is this the thing we should do? Are you in love with me? Do you love me? Do you think we're happy? Should we do this? Yes. No. Done. Left. Right. You don't even have to tell me the question. Just tell me what the first word of the question is versus why, how, what, or in what way you start that. You cannot give a binary response. You can't answer why do you love me? With yes or no. You could say, I just do. That works. But I'm saying is that the invitation begins with the question, and the big question even begins with the first word of the question. And we are not taught in our society how to build good questions. I was just listening to a podcast with Elon Musk where he said, he says, of course, many times we answer the right answer, we find the right answer to the wrong question. We spend so much time on the answer, we don't spend time exploring the question. And much like a race is shaped by the race course that it's run on, our answers are shaped by the questions we ask. And we do not bring enough attention to the questions we ask in every facet. Whether it's your business, whether it's how you speak to yourself or how you speak to your children or how you speak to your partner, we don't pay attention to the questions we ask. And that is where 80% of the power lies.

[Ilana]

Oof, that's strong. I want you to tell me about one of those hard, maybe hard conversations. And you don't call them hard. You call them good, deep conversation.

[Topaz]

They can be hard, for sure, but.

[Ilana]

They can be hard, right? So I want to talk a little bit about a hard conversation that you either witness or been part of that shaped your understanding that you need to cultivate. I mean, it's a muscle that you need to build, and we're not born with that muscle. We're not taught this muscle. Can you share a moment?

[Topaz]

Yeah. Well, working startup, I know you Talk a lot about startups in your own startup and other people and supporting them and coaching them in their own career paths. So when I started the skin deep 11 years ago, it was very scary. There was a lot that I didn't know. I remember speaking to the lawyer who was very expensive because my investor suggested I get a very good, expensive lawyer, because when we do exit, we'll want a good lawyer. And I was paying a lot for this gentleman's time. And I remember getting on the phone with him, he said, topaz, you're asking me these questions. Are you going to pay me $500 to answer this question, or are you going to go Google and learn it yourself? Where do you want to spend your money? Where do you want to spend your time? It's like, wow, great. I remember the day one, I took a selfie of me and my two team members at that time was Paige and Heran, and I took a picture selfie and I remember telling myself, remember this image because you are scared shitless right now. But we all know you're smiling because you're like the leader of the startup and you're not going to show that you're scared shitless. But I took a selfie, I can show it to you where I knew I benchmarked that moment and say, this is awesome. I am going to photograph this moment knowing that inside this smile, behind this whatever face I'm posing, I am shitting myself because I don't know what I'm doing. And not only that, but I've taken on my friends and families and investors, money. And so in that process, I remember early on, in like one, two, three years, there would be times you have a small team, five, six, seven people, and you could feel attention with somebody on your team and you don't want to talk to them. You don't want to have to go in and lean into that uncomfortable conversation. And I just learned over time that the longer I didn't have that conversation with them, the more uncomfortable the relationship would become. The less flexible and capable we would be able to perform together as a team because our relationship was strained. I just saw it as a. The sinews in your body, like the muscles and the ligaments in your body, if you don't stretch them, they become cartilage, they become stiff. And then what happens? You don't want to rub it, you don't want to stretch. Why? Because it hurts? Of course not. But the longer you don't, the more stiff it becomes. So that ultimately you can't move, right. So you're there figuratively. You have a cramp in your leg, you're in pain, you can't move because you haven't stretched for a month, you haven't dealt with the conflict, so that ultimately you have to deal with it. It's even more painful. And I realized, oh my gosh, when that comes up, approach it, have the conversation. Now, of course, many of us don't approach it because we don't have the tools. We don't know. And we could talk about that. The tools are create the space and we can talk about what that means, constructive questions. But the point is, I learned from hard conversations of startup years that initially I didn't want to have them. And if I didn't have them, the longer they festered, the more painful they would be later.

[Ilana]

And that is so, so, so important to pause. I actually do want to drill a little bit into this because the audience will actually find themselves in either they need to talk to their boss or their peers or to employees or whatever it is, and it is scary. And then you start pushing it and pushing it and pushing it, and that just amplifies the problem, like you said. Right. It's not going to get better. What do you say to people? How do you create again, the space and how do you create the questions that actually start creating results?

[Topaz]

Okay, so first, whatever it is, let's create a scenario where you have to go and let somebody off. Let them go. Okay, so stop there for a sec. First of all, what's the question you're asking yourself? You wake up, you know, you have that 10 o'clock meeting and you're probably saying, oh shit, I got to do that. Oh my God. Gee, I. I can't wait for that to be over. That line, I can't wait for it to be over, is actually an answer to a question you're asking yourself. What am I not looking forward to today that I can't wait for it to be over? You are asking yourself a question all the time, so stop right there. Even before speaking to another person, change the question you're asking yourself. How can I make this conversation the most usable or empowering for them and for me? How can I take this moment to actually develop a stronger relationship with this other person on the other end that I'm letting go today? Everything. Ask a different question. If you see yourself in a negative mode, beating yourself up, you're asking a disempowering question. Because remember, your mind is a faithful dog. It will chase any stick you throw, and it doesn't care where you throw it. If you sew the stick into the mud, it will chase after the mud. If you throw up on a beautiful vista, it'll run up on the vista and look at the view wherever you throw the stick. So if you say, what's the shitty stuff I have to do today? Great, Faithful dog will chase that stick. I'll tell you all the shitty things you have to do today. No problem, faithful dog. But if you say in today, in the challenging day that I have, where I have a bunch of things on my list I don't want to do, where is the beautiful moment that will change me forever? What is the five minutes I can cherish the most? Okay, you just threw the stick in a different direction, and your dog will go find it. Your mind will go find it. So train your dog. The dog goes where you throw the stick. So throw the stick in beautiful places. What does that mean? Ask good questions of yourself. So you're going to that meeting instead of saying, oh, you know, how am I going to get through this? Or what? No, how can I make the most of this? And then you, okay, so now that's asking yourself. That already changes your perspective on the whole experience because your mind is already coming with solutions right? Now you go into the space. Number one is, before you even ask questions, we have to create the space, right? What do I mean by that? Look, you don't sleep in the kitchen and you don't cook in the bedroom. You do certain things in certain places, right? Do we do that in our meetings at work? Do we let them, hey, this is this kind of meeting. This is this kind of meeting. Do we create the space where we understand, oh, this is the behavior that is conducive to the space we're in, right? With some expectations. So when you create the space so that people understand what is expected of them or what is allowed of them, or more importantly, you're basically giving them permission to be, then you're basically creating boundaries, right? You're creating a space. And in that space, people can feel safe, albeit, let's not be confused with safety and comfort. You're creating a space where people feel safe, but not necessarily comfortable. Let's not confuse comfort and safety. Safety is one thing, but comfort, I mean, the best place to be, frankly, is in a safe place where you are uncomfortable. Because then you're growing. Like, if I go bungee jumping, I'm definitely going to be safe. Well, because I'm choosing the right vendor who's Got the right bungee cord. And in theory, I'm safe. I'm not going to hit the ground because they know what they're doing. So in theory, I'm safe. But I'm definitely uncomfortable because I'm jumping off a cliff or I'm jumping off the bridge.

[Ilana]

Absolutely right.

[Topaz]

But I'm going to have an incredible experience. I'm going to feel more fulfilled. I'm going to come out going, wow, that's amazing. Okay. But it's a safe place where I'm uncomfortable. The same thing happens in your relationships. Same thing can work. So creating a safe space is important. And what that means is a, you create the boundaries, you're giving permission for people. This is what happens in this space. And also you're outlaying an intention. An intention is different than an agenda. An agenda is where you end up. An intention is where you begin.

[Ilana]

Ooh, powerful.

[Topaz]

Tell me more not to be confused with, like, an agenda for the meeting. Well, an agenda from meeting generally is, we're going to talk about this, then we're going to talk about this, then we're going to talk about this. They want to talk about that, then we'll talk about this. And ultimately you're saying we're talking about these things. You're basically giving them like, these are the guideposts, items, the items we're going to hit. What I'm saying is when we talk about each of those items, are you saying, team, the agenda is, I want you all to agree that this is the right decision. Think about it. You bring your direct reports into a room, or you go into a room, who is above you, whatever. And do they already know what they're going to do and you know what they're going to do. And they're just here so that they feel good about telling you what they're going to do. Or do they really want your opinion? And are we just here because they want us to get to where they want us to be? And you feel it. So you're not really showing up. Right.

[Ilana]

That's intention. Yeah.

[Topaz]

Or you as the boss, you come in and are you really interested in what everyone else has to say or you just want them to buy in and you're just playing the games that they buy in because you're already there.

[Ilana]

Right.

[Topaz]

That's an agenda. You know how it's going to end up. The intention is, okay, you show up and go, guys, we need to make a decision. I have a supposition about the decision, but I need everyone here, feed, buy in and understanding. And I could be wrong, or I need to know if we're really right or if we tweak it. My intention is that we'll come up with a solution. Exactly what the solution is, I don't know. Now you come from that space. It's an invitation for people to step in. An agenda is they feel like this is not an invitation to step in. This is an invitation to play chess, political chess, emotional stat, whatever it is.

[Ilana]

So for me, there's two things that come up here when we're talking about this. So first of all, it feels like a little bit of a muscle when you wake up in the morning and you feel sorry, shitty. There's a lot of crap going on, right? How do you train yourself to ask better questions? Because your instinct is about, oh, darn, I need to go through, ta da da da da. Your brain doesn't necessarily go to empowering questions, right? So how do, first of all, do you build that muscle to start thinking about smarter questions, better questions, first, noting.

[Topaz]

That it's a muscle. So that's great because what you practice, that you get good. That's great because this is not like a talent thing. It's actually a practice of a muscle. Okay, so then, you know, you can get good at this. Then two, how do we practice it? Great. Well, there's many ways, right? You can put the post it notes on your door, the window, when you brush your teeth in the mirror in the morning. Okay? That's one way. You could have the little rubber band on your forearm. So you snap it and you snap yourself every time you're thinking negative thought and change the question. I mean, you can get a tattoo that has a question. I mean, you could do a lot of things, right? The idea is, are you conscientious of it? That's number one. So now when we find ourselves going down that road, stop, turn back. I would just listen to a podcast where they say, was it yours? It might have been yours with that incredible guy with the incredible voice. Brian. Brian Tracy.

[Ilana]

Yeah. Huh.

[Topaz]

The quickest path of getting on the right path is when you realize you're on the wrong path and you turn around. So the fact that you're conscientious, that you're doing it, is number one. And you take a pause and then you turn around, you go back on the right path, whatever the right path is. But I'm saying is that, you know, it's a muscle, so you practice it. Great. I can get good at this. 2. If I'm aware of it. Then when I find myself happening it, then I can pause, turn around and move forward or going back in the right. And I think that's it. The rubber band, the notes, just being aware of it. When you find yourself banging your head against the wall, it's because you're trying to answer a question. It's really difficult to answer. Don't stop banging your head against the wall trying to answer that question. Change the question. You're not asking a really good question. When you ask a really well constructed question, the answer is much more obvious and fluid and easeful. And we can talk about what that means. But I repeat, if you find yourself banging your head, should I break up with this person? Should I fire this person? Should I hire that person? Should we launch the product or not? Should I leave my job and start a startup? I don't know. Okay, wait, change the question. Create a better, more specific, constructive question. And then the answer becomes obvious.

[Ilana]

Let's go there, Topaz, because I think that's really, really interesting. And by the way, you have a full book about 12 Questions for Love. Talk to me a little bit about how do you construct better questions? Because I think we all want to, but we sometimes have no clue. So let's start with ourself and then let's talk about relationship. I think both of them are very interesting for us.

[Topaz]

Okay, so if you're asking yourself a question and it's not working, as I just mentioned, right, there are three exercises you can do. Let's start with number one. Number one is I want you to brainstorm 30 other kind of questions. And this is how you construct the questions. Here is the take home value, if you're listening. Because people don't talk about this, at least it seems that no one talks about it. Because when I talk about it, they go, oh, that really helps. Number one, you have three.

[Ilana]

I'm literally writing.

[Topaz]

Yeah, you have three gaps. Okay? You're gonna have three fill in the blanks for every question and you hang up with 30 of them. The first fill in the blank is timeframe. What in the next three years, what in the next three months, what in the next week, what in the next six weeks, what in the next chapter. It has to have a timeframe. Okay? That's the first blank. The second blank is how does it make me feel? How does it affect me? That it makes me feel inspired, that it scares the shit out of me, that it's going to put me in a bender financial position so I feel stable, that I'm Going to learn something I've never learned before, that I'm going to be able to have the sense of teaching whatever it is. Second blank is how it makes you feel. The third one is how it affects others. So that I can support my community, such that I can reinforce my relationship with my wife or be more intimate with my kids, so that I can support my parents who are sick, so that I can be a pillar of my community, such that I can tackle the problems in my world that I think are important, whatever it is. You have three blanks and you create 30 questions. You just brainstorm. Then you look at that list and you circle the one that gives you the most energy and inspiration. The one that you're like, that's the one that on this finite time that I have on this planet as a human being for right now, that's the one I really want to answer. You circle that one, and then the answers are obvious. Let me give a really simple example. Should I break up with her? Should I break up with him? Should I break up with a. Should I break up with this person? I don't know. Yes. No. Da, da, da. Okay, stop. Come up with 30 questions and let's say you circle the one that you really like. Like, what in the next two years can I do so that I feel like I'm growing and challenging myself? Such that I'm a position to have a family life with my ideal partner? Okay, you circle that one. Now. Go, go. Does this person fit into that question? Yes, absolutely. Like, I'm comfortable and I want to be with them. And even though I do think that this is okay or. No, not at all. They don't fit the family life. So, no, they're out. Change the question. Deepen the question timeframe. How it makes you feel, how it makes other people's feel. And then the answer becomes obvious. And the reason that we have a timeframe is because life is finite. It doesn't go on forever. You change things. Change. Where do we want to live? Well. Well, you wanna live without kids or single? Is different with kids. It's different when the kids are 15. It's different when the kids are out of the house. It's different when you're now 70 or when you're not. So it changes. So give it a time frame. How it makes you feel is important because it gives you energy. And how it makes other people feel is because we are humans. We're in relationship, we're in community. If it's just about me, it's going to Get A narcissistic and B, it's going to burn out. The energy is not resilient because it's not being recycled through other people. It's of value to other people. So you do that, circle it. That's one huge tool. And then there's two others. One is question loops. So the most famous question loop is why? Da da da da why? Da da da da why? And you just keep asking the question, why should I quit my job? Why? Well, because I'm not feeling so much about it and I'm not sure why because, you know, I feel like wasting my time, albeit it's supportive. Why? And you just keep saying why, why, why, why? There's other question loops that you can ask, right? Like why? Then you go, well, because this. What would it give you? What would give me this? What if you already have it? Well, if I have it, I have here. Why? What would it give you? What if I already have it? Why? And you loop that and see where you go. And then the last one, which is a plug for myself is one of my additions is these boxes of 200 questions that we sell in all kind of relationships. One of them is a self deck, questions to ask yourself. So you list out the question, the big question you're asking, the enigma, the challenge you're facing. Then you randomly pull out questions that I ask and you answer those in relation to the big question. And that helps elucidate the feelings you're having, the options you're having, the things you're concerned about. And that's a great way you're shooting arrows of questions at the main enigma that you have, but a variety of them that are different and unique and that helps you pull out the yarn, the string to pull apart, the ball of yarn. That's all confused.

[Ilana]

That's incredible. And that's such a powerful tool that we use in coaching, you know, and just seeing your questions are brilliant. Talk to me because you have these cards also for relationship, right? And to better questions around relationship. These are questions that we need to ask ourselves first of all. And I think this is really important because if you ask yourself crappy questions, you're gonna also ask the relationship around you crappy question. Many. But talk to us a little bit how this changes when you're talking about relationship and better questions around those relationship.

[Topaz]

For me, when I construct a question, my team, when we construct questions, we usually have five aspects that we try to place on the question, at least five or most of them. The first one is don't make them binary. We discussed that. And you're saying, well, why? We can start sometimes talking about contracting questions where you're exploring your relationship with your. Stretching it. Where you're learning something new, where you're. I'm not talking about a conversation where you're into a space where you're making definitive decisions. Yes, no, we do this or that. I'm talking about the questions that elucidate your connection with other people, that give you a sense of deepening your relationship to them, that makes it more resilient, more fulfilled. Those conversations a have a question that's not binary because it ends. Yes, no, left, right, done. Two have questions that are empowering. We talked about the dog chasing the stick. I mean, don't say, why do we fight so much? Because they're gonna tell you, well, we fight so much. Cause da, da, da, da. Like, instead, you can make it constructive, empowering, saying, what is our biggest challenge in relationship right now? And what do you think it is teaching us? Because now we're going to. Okay, well, it was teaching us. Now it's more empowering. We're gonna get the answer, but we're gonna shift it into something that's empowering. What is it teaching us? Or how is it making us better? How does conflict make us better? Third one is make sure that it's a connective question. And what do I mean by connective? Is that it acknowledges the people in the conversation. So if I ask you, Ilana, what scares you the most? And your best friend comes down the street and says, ilana, what scares you the most? And a stranger comes up and says, what scares you the most? You're going to answer to those three people. Your best friend, me and the stranger. The same thing. Snakes or apocalypse or whatever. Bank. I don't know. Whatever it is that scares me the most, it's the same answer regardless of who's asking it. What a missed opportunity. Ask a connective question that acknowledges the people in conversation. So I would change it to Ilana, what do you think scares us both the most? And that immediately requires you to acknowledge me and our relationship and what you know of me thereby, you would not answer the same if I ask you that. And if your best friend down the street asks you that, and if a stranger asks you that, because it acknowledges the unique makeup of our connection. So make the question connective. Make sure that it acknowledges the two of us are in conversation.

[Ilana]

The connection.

[Topaz]

Yeah, the connection.

[Ilana]

Amazing. Because that dictates also the intention that dictates what we're going through together in a business setting.

[Topaz]

What is the mission of the company? Well, you'll answer that question. Okay. Instead, make it connective. How do you think we both see the mission the same and different? And whoever you're speaking to, you're going to answer that differently because it's a different person. Right. And then the fourth one is. And this is kind of two sides of the same coin. But make the questions connect. Two disparate ideas. They have to create a pause. It's really helpful when it creates a pause so that you're actually exploring in a new space between two neural nodes. Connecting two neural nodes for the first time takes time. What do I mean? I mentioned before, like, how does conflict make us better? Or what about this for your coaching is what does earning money cost you? What does the pursuit of earning money cost you? What is your favorite lie you love telling yourself? And what is the truth you hate telling yourself? It's like positive, negative. It's putting two things together that we don't often ask. And the flip side of that coin is putting yourself or someone else in other people's shoes. So, Ilana, what's the hardest thing? Being your friend. And then check this out. If we're in a conversation goes, what do you think is the hardest thing about our relationship? For instance, this is a power play. Is that if I say, what is the hardest thing about our relationship? I ask you that. That puts you in a position of power because you're going to say what is factually right. But by me just adding, do you think or do you feel this is your opinion. This is subjective. So when you're in a conversation just adding, do you think or do you feel to any kind of conversation, that's their perspective, that's their experience, that's their unique point of view, and they have the right to that. Versus saying, hey, why do we fight so much? Which is obviously not constructive. But what is the biggest challenge in our relationship? Versus what do you think is the biggest challenge in a relationship? What is stopping me from success? What is stopping me from hitting the sales goal? And you tell me, or versus what do you think is stopping me from stopping? Right. So just that player play helps, but going back to things, putting in each other's shoes is really helpful. And the last one is simply if you can offer the questions as a gift versus an agenda versus an attack, obviously, or as a chess match, then people are more willing to open up and come. And that means that you're asking the questions really out of Curiosity.

[Ilana]

And I think that is key. Right, Topaz? And I think that's what you talked about, the intention. Right? I mean, if we're coming with a very clear intention of I just going to get rid of this and, you know, we're going to suffer through this together, we're going to part ways, it's a very different intention, versus I gonna come with a lot of love and curiosity to see if there's a way to make this better or if there's a way to make this.

[Topaz]

The agenda thing is that when anyone comes to you or you go to anyone and just think about when people come to you and you feel like they already know the answer, or someone asks you a question and you feel like it's not a real sincere question. It's really like it's a chess match. You're not really engaging with them. You're playing chess. So you're not thinking about the answer. You're thinking about what should the answer I give in lieu of the context out of which that question came. So when you have an intention, that's like an open space where you don't know where you're going to end up, which is a vulnerable act. But that vulnerable act invites other vulnerability out. And sometimes that's what we need to have. Often that's what we need to have. Matter of fact, I think we need to have that more. And that's why it's the work that I've been doing.

[Ilana]

I actually want to take you there because I think what you just said is so, so, so critical, because I think it's the difference between am I listening to only my questions and what am I saying next, or am I actually present in a conversation? And I want to take you there for a second because you actually had, for me, was a powerful conversation on your YouTube channel with your father. Your YouTube channel has over almost, I don't know, a million subscribers. It's called the Skiing Deep YouTube channel. And you are not afraid to ask your father some really, really hard questions, which I think a lot of us are shying away from, especially with parents, especially with loved ones. We try to go through life ignoring some of these, but that actually just stretches the wounds. Can you talk a little bit about that, Faz?

[Topaz]

Well, I did two conversations with my dad five years apart, and actually the first one we did 10 years ago, but my team members forgot to hit the audio record button. It was like an amateur wasn't able to post that one. But we do have five years ago and a year ago so five years apart, the questions are provided, you know, they have to be surprises. So there's rules in the space of the. And right where I can't know what the questions are and neither can my dad. So our colleague at the time, Rosie, she wrote the questions and they're beautiful. And, and the reason that I can't be the one asking the question in the experience is because there's no equanimity, because then I'm in control because I'm writing the questions. So I have to be just as surprised as my father. That creates a safe space of equanimity. You know, I think, look, I can't have the conversation with everyone in my family history. A testament to the relationship I have with my father that we can sit in discomfort and also allow the autonomy of the other person's opinion. For me, my father is one of the coolest, most interesting, charismatic, unique souls that I've come across in my life. And I wanted to obviously have the conversation with him, but in terms of publicly sharing it, because I'm a very private person, I didn't really want to do that. But then again, you know, if I'm going to talk the talk, I need to walk it too. And if I've been privileged to have all these incredibly courageous people to step into the ant and share a bit of themselves and their relationships with each other and with the public, I should do the same. And so I did. And fortunately my father agreed to it as well. But there's two conversations. One, what, five years ago before, two weeks before I had life threatening surgery, and then what last year, now that and the bit lot changed in those five years. It became married, I became a father. But look, I can't have that conversation with other people in my family, for instance, not as a judgment call. But people's ability to sit in discomfort, I think is also commensurate to the quality of their experience of living. That's my opinion. And I don't mean as a judgment call, better living or worse living. I just mean the depth of the emotion of which you experience in the act of living. It's deeper. Why? Because you're sitting. More discomfort.

[Ilana]

Amazing. So, Topaz, what drives you every day? To work on skiing, deep to work on the YouTube. I mean, entrepreneurship is hard, right? I mean, there's just a lot of things going into it. What drives you?

[Topaz]

I'm passionate, I love what I do. I get a lot of energy from it. It was not sustainable for a long time and it was not sustainable because I had an unhealthy relationship to money. And then basically I had to do a substitution. It wasn't money, it was energy. And when I understood it was energy, what that meant for me was, okay, I'm going to put something out into the world. It's a lot of energy. Hopefully it has enough value in the world such that more energy comes back so that I'm not depleted, but I actually get more energy such that I can put more energy out into the world. Now, that excess energy some people call profit, you invest into something, a service or a product, you put it out into the marketplace, you're offering value to people, you get paid for that and hopefully get in excess of the energy and the amount that you put in. And with that excess energy, that profit, you then are able to put more out into the world that can offer more value. And when I was able to do that substitution, I was able to move more freely from the vantage point of an artist, because an artist wants to create value all the time, in my opinion, but they're not looking at sustainable value over time. And I was putting a lot of things of value that were winning awards and people love, but there was no business model and not excess energy was coming back, no profit was coming back. So I was getting depleted. And in the end, I couldn't walk the 10, 15 minute walk. It took me from my home to, to my office. And when I was done, I had to jump in the Uber and pay the $10, take a five minute Uber ride back to just put on crickets in my New York Brooklyn apartment. Because I was burnt out, man. I was living in New York for 18 years. I was running the startup for eight at that point. And I was burnt out. And for me it was making that substitution of like, no, no, no, I need to change. It's not just about putting out value and just not getting things back. I need the excess back. That excess is not profit, it's energy. Why? Because I could put more out in the world that I think of value. Because what drives me is not money, it's value. And I mean value in a more artistic sense of putting out there the things that I think are important.

[Ilana]

Topaz, can we go there for a second? So one of the things that our listeners will relate to, and I personally had this issue because I had this big heart. I would volunteer and mentor and advise people and advise companies and go and hustle and do all these things, but at the end of the day, I would come home and I was just like, how much Money did you make this month? Zero. Great job, Ilana. Let's go. Right. And it took me a couple good years to learn how to actually build a business, have a better relationship with money. Not being afraid of charging money because it's aligned with value. So can you speak to that for a second to pause? Because I think that relationship was money. There's one of the harder relationships that we have too.

[Topaz]

There's relationship to money and then there's a relationship to business. Right. Because money. You could be a freelancer. I mean, I was a freelancer, director and cinematographer and editor for years. And I was still dealing with this problem of my relationship to money. But then I started a business and that also had a whole other relationship to business, which is how do you show up as a leader? How do you create the space to enable people to deliver the most, not just for themselves, but also for the sustainability of the enterprise? That's collective. Because for many years, for me, the most important thing was each individual's path. But then the actual company itself was not sustainable and I had to carry it. And then, you know, I'm facing tons of debt or I'm facing tons of channels and everyone goes. And I'm left holding the ticket in my hand. And, you know, I have children and like, wait a second. And there was long journey. It's 11 years. Yeah. And I think I've worked in three offices in my life. One was in university. I had a summer internship at Idea Lab under Bill Gross. And it was really hard for me showing up to an office as awesome as that place was. Just like I couldn't be at the same desk from 9 to 5 every day. And then there were two directing jobs I had where same thing until you were on set in prep and everything. You know, you're showing up to a desk and you're nine to five. And I found myself that I would get the work done half the time, and the other half the time I was pretending to work. This is something I can't do. I cannot spend my life pretending to do the job. I can't waste the most important, valuable, finite thing I have is my time, is anyone's time. So it was really difficult for me. So for me it was always like either on my own as an independent contractor or then 10 years ago I said, okay, I'm gonna start a business. And that's been a long up and down journey. And I think, I mean, I've learned so much. I've learned just because it doesn't happen when you Want it to happen does not mean it's not going to happen. It's just not gonna happen on your timeframe. So be patient, don't beat yourself up. Be resilient. This is a marathon. It's not a sprint. There's ebbs and flows. When it ebbs, prepare for the flow. When it's flowing, prepare for the ebb. My dad has a great line. He has two. Well, I think one of them is probably cliched. He's like fire, fast, higher, slow. I think that's like a well known line. And then the other one, maybe it's also well known, I don't know if he often used, but the one he always told me is like, if you're not growing, you're dying.

[Ilana]

I like that.

[Topaz]

Yeah, well, we're good here. We're staying here. Well, then you're dying. If you're not growing, you're dying. And not to be confused with. What does growing mean? Growing doesn't mean necessarily going up. It might be meaning going deeper. Right. It doesn't necessarily have to mean you have to increase your sales numbers. Maybe it just means increase your ebitda, increase your efficiency. It does not always mean I don't. In this kind of manner of like, we have to get bigger and bigger.

[Ilana]

Because I think your goals also change, right? I mean, your goals change and maybe your goals is actually to create more balance because you have a new kid. It can be many things as long as you are very intentional and strategic about your goals and how you create them. Not just the paycheck, but the life that you're creating with it.

[Topaz]

Absolutely. I'm going in my head because I just had a conversation with a very good friend of mine a week ago and he's a very successful editor and he's looking for another business of passive income on the side. And so he wanted to pick my brain because he'd seen me do that journey, right, for the last 11 years. And it's interesting, I kind of walked him through the process in my mind, which was interesting because the first time I really shared it, because first time someone asked, but what came up was what she says, like, the first thing is, what is it that you want? What's the question you're asking yourself? Right? I mean, there's many ways you can go off and try to and make money, but to what end? What will you do with that money? To do what? Because maybe you have that, you know, it's like the famous thing like, well, I want to make money, so I have Free time. Well, right now do you have free time? I have lots of free time. Well, then what's the problem? You know, if you're working really hard, I have free time, but you have free. Like, what? It's not just that. Is it something else? So number one is what's the question you're asking yourself? And then number two, I, you know, for me was the Venn diagram in terms of what career path, what should start a business in what degree is where do you feel you get energy from and where do you feel you offer value and where do those two overlap? And then anyways, I continue him down on a journey and business model, blah, blah, blah, blah. But at the end of the day, like, or someone else is saying, hey, we want to grow this exponentially and then make an exit. Okay, great. Why? Well, no, but we, it's like, wait. Many of us are finding ourselves answering questions that are given to us by our friends, our culture, our parents, and actually not of ourselves. You want to grow this to be exponential so you can. Why? Because that's. Because the line you hear on social media and that that's what everyone else is doing. What is it that you want? What is a question you're asking yourself that gives you the answer of what it is you want? And then let's shape your business around that.

[Ilana]

And I love that to pause because I think we're putting a lot of focus in Leap Academy and the programs themselves to really ask these questions. And how do you find clarity? How do you find where you want to go? What are your must haves? What's critical for you? And again, some people are driven by legacy and thought leadership and fame and freedom. Whatever it is for you, nothing is bad as long as you're willing to look in the mirror and say, this is what I'm chasing now let's go get it.

[Topaz]

Exactly. It's like you might have the same answer to two different questions, but the energy, how it flows through the system is different because you asked a different question. Example. I have a brother, super talented musician, genius level musician. For many years, he was making his music. Why? Because he had to prove himself to his dad. Oh, that sounds familiar. That was exactly me. I was exactly me. Same thing. Okay, so you're making music and this is just very simple example, but it might as well have been me making films. Same thing to prove yourself to your father. Okay, so imagine that energy and the needs and the emotion going into it of the struggle. If it doesn't succeed, then it's a Reflection of, okay, I'm making films, he's making music. Trying to prove yourself to your father. Okay, there's a lot of energy that's not being really efficiently used. Then you ask a different questions. You know what, what is it that I love? I love making films. I love making music. Why? Because I love how it shines on people. Great. So do the same thing, but ask a different question. Not how do I prove myself to my father, but how do I do more of what I love? You're still making music, you're still making films, but it's coming from a different place. It's coming through a different system. If energy flow is efficiently flowing through the system, so you have more energy to do the output.

[Ilana]

And I think usually we end up with, what's your advice? Your younger self. But I feel that's probably one of the interesting advice from you. Is there anything else that comes to you that you would catch yourself and tell yourself and want to make sure that our listeners are getting from you?

[Topaz]

One of our questions that we ask. Yeah. Is exactly. Is that if you could go back to any point in time, where would you go? When would you go? And what would you tell yourself? Because it's different, right. And the other interesting question is like, okay, if the Topaz or the Alana five years from now was here right now, what would she tell you from the future? Forget the past. What would the Alana from the future tell you right now?

[Ilana]

I love that question, by the way. And I think she would tell me that I'm badass and kick ass and be patient.

[Topaz]

Exactly. She tell you, relax, you're doing great. You're doing wonderful. Mine would be like, topaz, don't stop flossing. Keep flossing. Take care. And more green tea. Topaz, please. You know, like.

[Ilana]

I love this. Yes, but where would you go back in time?

[Topaz]

I think one day I'm going to die of nostalgia. Since having children, it's much better. But before I had children, nostalgia was very hard for me. So that's why when you asked me to go back, probably many points. I mean, I'd like to say I don't have many regrets. I do have the thing that I haven't made the most. I haven't made the most of my time in terms of reading as many books, paying attention to as many of the beautiful things in this world, like food and art and music and nature. And I wish I studied philosophy at Oxford and Berkeley. I wish I'd read more of the books. I wish I spend More time. But then again, doesn't everyone say, like, youth is wasted on the young? Like, you're young, you have all this energy you can. But yeah, I wish I spent more time reading the riches of humanity, the literature, the music, the books and, and really plug that into my brain more. Because if I did that I would have much more informed opinions now or positions now or God knows how that would have shaped my outlook on life and what I could share here with you now. What would you tell yourself?

[Ilana]

I would tell myself to, first of all, ask more help. I was the person that would never ask for help, no matter what I thought that I'm very strong if I persevere through things. And the truth is I just moved slower. If I'd known a tenth of what I know now, I know we would have been a billion dollar company by now. But I think this is the muscle I needed to build to be where I am today. And I'm really, really proud, you know, Inc 500. Like, I'm really proud of what we achieved. And I wish I had asked for help a lot earlier in my career. So for me, that would be the big one.

[Topaz]

You know, it's funny you say that because when you said the billion dollar thing, what hit me was the idea that billion, a hundred thousand, one million, seven, eight, whatever. These are just numbers. These are digits, right? But they represent something deeper. They represent what you represent lives, the experience you become life. But the life is like, what are you learning? You know, like you said, like, I couldn't, but I had to learn the things I had to learn. Like, so it's like it's a signpost. But actually what it is, it's like a becoming. Like in order to be in that place, you're learning things and you're becoming. At the end of the day, it's a number. But what is not just a number is the things you've learned, the relationships you've built, what you've become as a human. Do you know what I mean?

[Ilana]

Yeah. And I think for me, it's also life change experiences that you're open to. Like, suddenly two weeks ago, I gave a lecture in front of Richard Branson, his son and his nephew. I mean, it's a pinch me moment. Ten years ago, did I ever see that coming? No. That wasn't even in the dreams, right? So for me, it's one of those moments that what else is available if I just do more, get more done, create the incredible team that I have, and I'm so grateful for them and what we're achieving and all the hundreds of clients a year that we have. And I'm saying to myself, how much more is possible? And again, it's one small step at a time, because we're just impatient people.

[Topaz]

Beautiful.

[Ilana]

Right? But thank you so much for this incredible. Oh, my God, I took so many notes. I was just like, this is awesome. Thank you for sharing all these beautiful questions. I do believe so much of it is the questions that we create for ourselves. And it's a gps, and it's such a powerful GPS that we're not leveraging enough. And I want to just thank you for sharing all these beautiful insights and tips.

[Topaz]

Thank you. Thank you for the space, Ilana. Thank you for the time.