Nextdoor’s Bryan Power: Turning Big, Scary Opportunities into Career-Defining Success

Summary

Leap Academy with Ilana Golan: Episode Summary

Episode Title: Nextdoor’s Bryan Power: Turning Big, Scary Opportunities into Career-Defining Success
Release Date: December 5, 2024
Host: Ilana Golan
Guest: Bryan Power, Head of People at Nextdoor

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1. Introduction

In this inspiring episode of The Leap Academy Podcast, host Ilana Golan engages in a deep conversation with Bryan Power, the Head of People at Nextdoor. Bryan brings a wealth of experience from leading people teams at some of the world's most influential companies, including Google, Square, and Yahoo. The discussion centers around embracing challenging opportunities, climbing the corporate ladder, and fostering personal and professional growth through adversity.

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2. Bryan Power's Career Journey

Bryan Power recounts his entry into the tech industry during the vibrant dot-com era. Moving to the Bay Area in 1999, he immersed himself in the dynamic environment, joining companies like Google and Square at their nascent stages:

• Early Career and Dot-Com Era:
  “I was lucky enough to join Google. I joined Square One as a startup. Both of those opportunities, I just felt like it was more than I was going to be able to do.”
  (00:16)

• Embracing Challenges:
  Bryan emphasizes the importance of seeking out opportunities that push him beyond his comfort zone. “You have to go through the level of challenge you haven't dealt with before to really feel that come through.”
  (01:03)

His tenure at Google and Square provided invaluable experiences, teaching him resilience and adaptability in rapidly evolving environments.

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3. Overcoming Adversity and Growth

Bryan discusses how facing significant challenges has been pivotal in his career development:

• Managing Stress and Company Impact:
  At Square, during a leadership transition, Bryan felt the immense pressure of his role:
  “I had never felt personally that level of stress before where if I failed, everyone around me was probably going to fail.”
  (02:34)

  This period forced him to develop strategies to handle high-stakes situations, ultimately contributing to Square's successful transition to a publicly traded company.

• Personal Reflection Ritual:
  Bryan shares his annual practice of taking time to reflect on his career and personal satisfaction:
  “I take stock of where I am career-wise... It allows me to really focus on the year in front of me versus constantly wondering, should I change.”
  (05:09)

  This ritual helps him navigate career decisions thoughtfully, ensuring sustained growth and avoiding reactive changes based on short-term setbacks.

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4. Current Challenges and Leadership at Nextdoor

As Head of People at Nextdoor, Bryan addresses the multifaceted challenges leaders face today, especially in a post-COVID world:

• Macro-Level Stress Factors:
  “Leaders are being asked to help people through this macro-level stress problem... which is very difficult.”
  (09:53)

  The polarizing political climate and global anxieties add layers of complexity to leadership roles, requiring leaders to balance company goals with employee well-being.

• Impact of COVID-19:
  Bryan reflects on how the pandemic reshaped workplace dynamics:
  “The nature of work has changed so dramatically since the COVID-19 pandemic... everyone is sorting out what that means.”
  (12:06)

  He highlights the ongoing disruption in work experiences, emphasizing the need for adaptable strategies to meet evolving employee expectations.

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5. Hiring and Leadership Development

Bryan delves into the intricacies of modern hiring practices and leadership development:

• Remote vs. In-Person Hiring:
  “If you're a remote company, you can hire in such a broader geographical area... but in-person hiring limits you to a specific location.”
  (13:33)

  He discusses the trade-offs between remote and in-person hiring, including the impact on diversity and team dynamics.

• Challenges of Remote Leadership:
  Bryan contends that remote environments pose unique challenges for leaders:
  “The remote environment is much tougher for leaders to do their job... relationship-based leadership is harder over video.”
  (15:48)

  He underscores the importance of non-verbal communication and informal interactions in building trust and effective leadership.

• Hiring for Potential and 'Distance Traveled':
  Introducing the concept of "distance traveled," Bryan explains how understanding a candidate’s journey can be more indicative of their potential than their current standing:
  “Look at their journey... how far did they have to come to get to where they are versus where are they.”
  (19:13)

  This approach prioritizes learning agility and resilience over traditional markers of success.

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6. Advice for Aspiring Leaders

Bryan offers actionable advice for listeners aiming to breakthrough in their careers and ascend to leadership roles:

• Persistence in Job Hunting:
  “People underestimate just persistence... the professional endurance to overcome some of these things.”
  (24:17)

  He emphasizes the importance of sustained effort and leveraging weak ties in one's network to secure positions in desirable companies.

• Transitioning to Leadership:
  Bryan advises on the fundamental shifts required when moving into management:
  “You have to completely reframe how you think about solving problems... It's what makes you a leader.”
  (26:33)

  He highlights the necessity of balancing direction with autonomy to empower teams effectively.

• Onboarding and Building Credibility:
  “Don't want to start that narrative... build credibility and trust through doing what you say you're going to do.”
  (31:27)

  Bryan advises new hires to focus on small, consistent actions that build trust rather than attempting to make significant changes before fully understanding the company culture.

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7. Success of Nextdoor

Bryan elucidates the factors contributing to Nextdoor's success as a community-centric platform:

• Essential Neighborhood Network:
  “We're an essential neighborhood network. You come for utility, but you stay for the community.”
  (35:50)

  Nextdoor leverages the fundamental human concept of neighborhood relationships, fostering a sense of community and trust among users.

• Community Leaders and Local Events:
  “Nextdoor's just giving them a platform to be able to do what's already their natural instinct that much easier.”
  (38:01)

  By empowering local leaders and facilitating responses to community events, Nextdoor enhances its role as a vital tool for neighborhood cohesion.

• Impact of COVID-19 on Community Engagement:
  “What was unique about the COVID experience was that the whole world cared about their local community.”
  (39:37)

  The pandemic heightened the importance of local connections, leading to increased engagement on Nextdoor as communities rallied together during crises.

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8. Personal Insights and Advice to Younger Self

Reflecting on his personal journey, Bryan shares profound insights aimed at fostering long-term success and well-being:

• Managing Mental Health and Energy:
  “Worry less about if it's too hard or too much... understanding what really gives you that juice is important.”
  (40:54)

  He stresses the importance of maintaining mental and physical health to sustain the energy required for tackling challenging opportunities.

• Recovery Practices:
  “Taking away the things that will give you more energy limits the amount of stuff you're going to do with the time that's available to you.”
  (43:16)

  Bryan advocates for regular practices that replenish energy, such as exercise and adequate rest, as essential for sustained productivity and resilience.

• Advice to Younger Self:
  “Understand what it is for you and really know and stick to it.”
  (42:16)

  He emphasizes the value of self-awareness and strategic planning in personal and professional development.

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Conclusion

Bryan Power's journey from the early days of the dot-com boom to leading people at Nextdoor offers a compelling narrative on the power of embracing challenges, strategic persistence, and the importance of community. His insights on leadership, hiring, and personal growth provide valuable lessons for professionals aspiring to leap into bigger roles and craft meaningful careers. Ilana Golan masterfully guides the conversation, ensuring that listeners glean actionable strategies to navigate their own career paths with confidence and resilience.

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Notable Quotes:

• “You have to go through the level of challenge you haven't dealt with before to really feel that come through.” — Bryan Power (01:03)

• “I'm very much a nurture person. I feel like leaders are created by their environment versus the idea of a born leader.” — Bryan Power (18:53)

• “Managing mental health and understanding what is really going to fill your tank or my tank with the positive energy to take on big things.” — Bryan Power (40:54)

• “Nextdoor's just giving them a platform to be able to do what's already their natural instinct that much easier.” — Bryan Power (38:01)

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key themes and insights from the episode, providing a valuable resource for those seeking to understand how to turn daunting opportunities into defining career successes.

Transcript

[A]

I don't want a job where I'm thinking by myself. I really experience success as a we.

[B]

Not an I. Brian Power. He leads the people team in Nextdoor, but before that, chief human resources officer in Yahoo Square Google.

[A]

I was lucky enough to join Google. I joined Square One as a startup. Both of those opportunities, I just felt like it was more than I was going to be able to do. I get an extra push from needing to figure things out, but I think everyone wants the success. But you have to go through the level of challenge you haven't dealt with before to really feel that come through. When I'm looking for leaders, I really try to just pay attention to.

[B]

If you talk to different professionals, they're thinking, I would love to maybe work with some of these really cool companies. How do I even get in?

[A]

I think people underestimate.

[B]

Brian Power. He leads the people team in Nextdoor, but before that, chief human resources officer in Yahoo. Before that, Square Google. You just pick all the cool companies. Brian, what helped you really climb up the ladder in all these amazing companies? Brian, thank you for being on the show.

[A]

I think if you go all the way back. I was also a dotcomer. I came to the bay area in 1999 and that was a really inspiring time in tech and in Silicon Valley. And I think I learned at an early age to try to chase down and lean into really challenging opportunities. Probably a little more than I thought I was capable of.

[B]

Tell me more. I mean, you came before me. I was still back in Israel. So that's fascinating how you maneuvered the whole dot com.

[A]

I was really young. I was 23 or 24. And so I was grateful to be exposed to like the super high bubble of the dot com where you kind of look back on it now and see that change was going to take longer than people thought it did at the time. But this period of massive change was clearly in the air, particularly in San Francisco in 1999. Kind of reminds me similar of the feeling around AI today day where people are not totally sure what exactly it's going to look like, but clearly something massive has really shifted.

[B]

You then ticked a lot of the companies that people would love to be part of, like Google Square, Yahoo, Nextdoor, like you tick a lot of boxes and you managed to also climb up to leadership in those amazing companies. What do you feel hoped you it.

[A]

Looks better looking backwards than it does in the moment. I was lucky enough to join Google, they had just gone public. This is now almost 20 years ago in 2005 and it was certainly a darling of Silicon Valley, but it wasn't like the mega corporation that it is today. And I just didn't anticipate the journey that I went on there. And everyone who's worked there has went on. And even Square, you know, I joined Square One as a startup and I can't say we all thought it would play out the way that it was. We were certainly optimistic, but it just succeeded more than even we anticipated. Was working there both of those opportunities. And this has been consistent really with all of the jobs I look at or teams I seek to join. I just felt like it was more than I was going to be able to do. That choice that you're scared or stressed that you're going to be able to achieve something, I've found for me personally is a better choice than taking something where you know you can do it. It's actually for me a better choice to manage the stress and anxiety over feeling like you don't know what to do because you're probably going to figure things out as you go versus look for creating an opportunity where you're kind of boxed into a safe or a small position. It doesn't enable growth the way the big scary opportunities do.

[B]

So you go for the scary then.

[A]

Yeah, I think whether it's a small company like a startup or a bigger company, I've found I'm personally energized by not really knowing what to do and that I get an extra push from needing to figure things out, whether that's personally or at the company level. That brings a lot of energy and attention to whatever problems are in front of you. And again, like many of us, I've also been in environments where I haven't been as challenged and I found the demands on you drop and then the growth can slow and you end up doing different things.

[B]

I think, Brian, one of the things that our listeners will probably appreciate, sometimes they're very driven, but they feel stuck or they feel a fraction of what they could be. First of all, did that ever happen to you? And if it did, how did you overcome? How did you figure out what I want to do and how do I get out of that stuckness, if you will?

[A]

I have a personal ritual now that I've done. I can't remember when I started doing it, but I really take stock of where I am career wise. At the end of every year over the holidays, I kind of find a day to go by myself and just think and reflect and think about, you know, is this situation working for Me, Do I like the company's future? Do I like my personal situation? Do I like my team? Just like a whole 360 of what do I think I need to do? And I keep this ritual every year because what it allows me to do. And I usually lean back into what I'm doing, but sometimes I decide, okay, it's time to change. That allows me to really focus on the year in front of me versus constantly wondering, should I change? If you have a bad week at work, you're like, I should quit. It lets me really move through the adversity on a longer horizon, knowing that I'm going to take full stock at least once a year into what I want to do next. Because I think that we can overreact to the positive and the negative when we're in the moment. And I think that also can be really distracting if you feel like you're constantly reevaluating your situation. Because for me, the best growth has come from periods of real adversity where the instinct is to leave and to quit and to give up or to try something else. And it's when you really push through those steep challenges that you experience personal or professional growth at a totally different level.

[B]

And I absolutely agree with that. And I love how strategic and intentional you are. Every time to reassess, is there a certain story that you think you can share of adversity or a challenge that actually lifted you and grew you from there?

[A]

I'll go back in time because I'd been at Google for about eight years and I had an offer internally for a new assignment that was exciting. This is now 2011 or 2012, so again, a really long time ago. And just to reorient what was going on then, that was three years after the major economic crash of 2008, 2009, and it was an incredibly fertile landscape in tech. This is when today's dominant tech companies, Uber, Airbnb, they were all 100 person startups. Pinterest, Dropbox, Square, the kind of list goes on. And Google at that time was really a major player. And I had this internal opportunity, but I decided, you know, I think I kind of want to try a much smaller startup and see what I can do. There were other things. I was in New York at the time and I was interested in coming back to California. But anyway, fast forward to I ended up working at Square and it was really difficult to go from. Google at that time was just such a rocket ship that I don't know. And this is common a lot of Google alumni experience this. You underestimate the tailwind the organization provides for you when it's really on this path of success. And so Square was the first time where I felt my personal. At the time, I was leading recruiting and Square was going through a leadership transition where we really needed to bring in a lot of new leaders. And you know, that was my responsibility. It's like a be careful what you wish for moment. I had got this challenge where if I didn't do my job, the company was really going to feel it. And I'd never felt personally that level of stress before where if I failed, everyone around me was probably going to fail. The chances will really go up. What I learned in that moment was I'd been stressed about myself and my own job before or my manager or my team, but I'd never really worried about company level stress for a long time because again, Google was on this run and so I had to learn to deal with these different aspects of stress. And I remember the moment of being like, well, hey, do you want to just bail out or do you want to do what you signed up for? And so that began a few month run where we really rebuilt the leadership team at Square, I should say the next iteration of leadership at Square that ultimately took the company public and really took it to new heights. And so I got that direct feedback I was looking for. But I think everyone wants the success, but you have to go through the level of challenge you haven't dealt with before to really feel that come through. But I distinctly remember the moment sitting by myself and thinking about this level of stress was a lot and I'd never really dealt with it before.

[B]

And it's such a beautiful story because again, as you climb up the ladder, especially in smaller companies, suddenly the weight on your shoulders become bigger and bigger and every decision is actually really impactful. So you're able to overcome these challenges. And again, these are the challenges that define you. These are the challenges that help you grow now in Nextdoor, you're already at the sea level. What keeps you up at night?

[A]

Oh my goodness, there's so many things. I think what's been interesting in today's world as a leader is even as an optimistic, which I subscribe myself to, I just believe we're on the path to a better future. It's a kind of a tough world. The politics in the US are certainly polarizing. Regardless of where you come down on the political spectrum, there's a lot of things globally that are making people really anxious. And it just feels more than normal. And so what I think that means is a lot of people turn to their company as the thing that they feel like they have some sense of impact or control on. And so many people expect their organization is going to make their day to day better because of the fact that so much outside of their day to day world professionally is scary and intimidating and stressful. And so that means leaders who have a tough enough time trying to go from A to B on your company level goals are also being asked to help people through this macro level stress problem, which fair or unfair is increasingly the expectation for a lot of people that their work is what's going to get them through this. Their professional identity is going to be a source of strength for them. And so they look to leaders to really fulfill that. And that's very difficult just given what is important to so many different people, how to play that role in their day to day life. So I definitely worry about that. I think that the nature of work has changed so dramatically since the COVID 19 pandemic four years ago in what people expect out of work, what it means to have a job, what it means to go to work or do work. All of these things have just been disrupted in a way that it's very hard to think about. The last disruption at this level of the work experience going back decades, it's really been seismic and I think people are still really sorting out what that means. And so in the heart of your question, what I worry about, a lot of the big plates that just going to work and doing are built upon have really been moving around. So that makes it almost like three dimensional chess of how to figure out just to get your work done as a company you've got to grapple with these other external factors that are really significant.

[B]

So tell me more about these Covid challenges. I think we've seen a part picture, we see the remote work, we see other things. But I want to hear more. Brian, what are you seeing?

[A]

I think that one thing we learned, and I've been at Nextdoor the entire time, you know, I started here two years before COVID so my whole post Covid during COVID experience has been with Nextdoor. The only thing I felt really confident in, if you go back to 2019 and 2020, when we were really in the throes of lockdown and pre vaccines and just the unknown, was that a lot of people were quick to declare victory on what work was going to be. Whether that was everyone's going to be fully remote. This is the future or. No, no, no, no. Remote was just a fad. You got to get back like everyone just having these declarative statements that they knew. That was the only thing I knew was wrong because it's just too seismic, it's too disruptive. And I've seen just past technical innovations, it's really hard to see when it's happening the thing that's going to become the major long standing success coming out of this. And so I think each year what you've seen now is companies are just taking so many different approaches versus we all kind of used to do the same thing. I think what's healthy is people are now narrowing in on what do they want their experience to be, what's right for them, for their company, for their size, for their values. And that's just creating a much richer landscape of employers or employment opportunities for people to pick between.

[B]

So you have the people that are looking for safety net stability. On the other hand, maybe remote, maybe et cetera. Do you find that that's harder to hire for diversity for, you know, a mixed environment? Is it harder? Is it easier? How do you feel hiring has changed?

[A]

There's just trade offs. If you're a remote company, you can hire in such a broader geographical area than if you want to hire in a place where you can bring everybody together all the time. If you want everyone in the office every day or four or five days a week, everyone at the company kind of needs to be able to get to the office that week. So you can only hire within a certain circumference from where the office is versus remote time zones become a factor, but that's like a much bigger opportunity. So it's like what's more important to you? Is it the ability to get people together, which I think for really small startups is really significant. When you're a company of 20 people, if you can all just fit around one table or in one room, there's a velocity to that that I think is just dishonest. To not say is real whether you need it or not is a different choice, but it is just fundamentally different if you're all in the same room together. But when you get bigger, you all can't fit in the same room. And so you have different choices that you need to make. But I do think hiring has really changed in that one of the challenges in hiring before was people needed to take time off to interview. They had to go to an office to meet with everybody, which means you have to take a day off, which is Kind of suspect if your manager is watching, like where were you yesterday? And now? It's just easy. People are so much more skilled at doing really substantive conversations over video with people they don't work with. It's not that we weren't working on video before, but it tended to only be with your coworkers. But now it's just so normal to facetime with the grandparents or take video calls at networking meetings. This is just really proliferated on how often people are on video. And so I think that's really opened up how people find out about new opportunities and how you get to know people. Because the time and place commitment is much lighter now.

[B]

And do you feel that that's easier or harder to build leaders to train them for them to become the best version of themselves?

[A]

My personal point of view is that the remote environment is much tougher for leaders to do their job. And in many ways it's easier or more desirable for employees. They have more access to getting out of work quickly. But so much of what leaders do is relationship based. It's your network internally across the company. It's the ability to pick up signals that are nonverbal when you're in an environment. And those are much more difficult to pick up over video when you're in your house with like a fake background. And I think that's why so many leaders have pressured the system to come back into work. It's really about their needs as much as what's right for everyone. I think what's right for everyone is a different answer. But certainly you just kind of read the headlines more and more Senior, more experienced, 20, 30 plus years of experience. The bias is clearly to working in person. And I think it's because there's so much more information at their disposable to do their job for sure.

[B]

I mean you meet people in the kitchen sink or the fire chat conversations, right? The really quick corridor conversations. It helps you get visibility as a leader. Right now it's a big black box, like you don't know what's really going on.

[A]

I also found too one of the more interesting research, I probably can find it for you. Scientific research based on how your brain remembers things, people in particular is your brain responds to a 3D representation of a person. So in person your brain imprints who you are. Where a two dimensional screen like on a laptop, your brain doesn't imprint who you are as well. This is why I always found myself like I feel like I've met this person before and I can't remember, I thought I was just getting old, but I think there's actually. It's more difficult to retain that in person. Meeting someone, it's not the exact same thing as meeting someone on video. And so anything that's tied to building relationships or social capital trust, which is really rooted in those things, it's just harder to do over video. It's not that it can't be done, but it's definitely more difficult. And there's lots of studies that have.

[B]

Showed that that's fascinating. I didn't realize that. I just like that there's a name. So I can always remember the names. But how do you find leaders these days and how do you hire for them?

[A]

I think the classic nature versus nurture debate is kind of the jumping off point for everybody. I'm very much a nurture person. I feel like leaders are created by their environment versus the idea of a born leader. I've seen too many people who were incredibly impressive that if you had gone back 10 years before, you would not pick them as the person to really be that. So when I'm looking for leaders just internally at the company, who's going to be promoted, who is a future CEO or something like that, I really try to just pay attention to how they're impacting the environment around them, how they get their job done as much as what they were able to accomplish. That approach tends to give you signals on what the future trajectory is going to be and is there how or is there why do they operate a certain way? Those are the things that give you a better point of view than just were they able to get the thing done that they were supposed to.

[B]

I always say that I like hiring for hunger versus skills because I do believe we can teach a lot of the things. But I need people to be motivated. Do you have some questions that you find that are helping you assess Will somebody be able to function or do you need them to be tested?

[A]

Somehow I tend to focus on similar to questions you asked me at the beginning. Take me back to moments of adversity and once you get through it and just how the person responds to what was adversity, let alone like what did they do with it, can give you a sense of the types of challenges that they've had to come across. One of the more profound concepts I've learned really came from the Kapoor foundation here in the Bay Area, which is this idea of the distance traveled. I don't know if you're familiar with this concept. It's really about you should look at like how far did they have to come to get to where they are versus where are they? And so like the hiring metaphor would be, generally speaking, people want to hire the top person out of MIT or Stanford, but if they are like third generation Stanford and had tutors their whole life and had interns all through, that their parents set up for them or their family set up for them. But the fifth best person was the first person to go to college and worked all the way through. Like would you still really want the first person knowing how far the person who came in fifth had come? So this distance traveled really means like look at their journey. And so when I interview or assess, I'm trying to get a sense of what's their rate of learning and growth and achievement. By achievement I mean what have they been able to overcome? Because that path is better than zooming in. Almost like a case study of what was this example that showed you figured something out? Like I think anyone who's interviewing has some type of preparedness example of they did something good. But when you get into their journey, like the ground someone covers and what they knew and didn't know is really I think what stands out. I think particularly in tech, we don't focus on this enough. We kind of look at where are they today and does that match to where I'm in today? Are they at a little bigger company in the same area of experience? Then they must be able to help us instead of thinking about their learning velocity and ability to over achieve whatever's in front of them.

[B]

Do you think there's something that you went through, whether it's in your childhood or before, that built you to where you are right now?

[A]

I can't think of any one event. I'm not the only person who grew up with this tradition. But I grew up in a blue collar, lower middle class family. We didn't have everything. We certainly weren't poor. I do remember when I was 11 or 12, my dad said I couldn't have money whenever I asked for for it, but anytime I wanted a book, he would pay for it. That accelerated my love for reading, which ultimately meant learning throughout all phases of my life, whether it was going to high school and college and finding a job. There's just been this desire to learn more which ends up back to what I said at the beginning, is seeking environments where I don't know what to do or I'm going to be challenged. And so if I was to pick a pattern of the roles I've taken, the companies I'VE joined. What's been really clear has been I probably don't think I was totally qualified, and I definitely didn't know what to do. You make a lot of mistakes, but ultimately, hopefully, you get on top of it, and then the next challenge will be bigger. But always trying to keep that path, I think, is probably the consistent theme that's shaped me.

[B]

And did you always know that you're a people person? Was that on the horizon all the time? Or is that morph into, this is actually my zone of genius. This is what I want?

[A]

Well, I think it's become more clear. You know, my first job out of college was a recruiter. My standards then were like, I just want to be in a role where I'm talking to people and there's a lot of energy. I don't want a job where I'm thinking by myself. But, like, it wasn't much more complicated than that when I was 22. I think as I got older, you know, and more experience, I realized I really experienced success as a we, not an I. So my motor comes from groups that I'm associated with, whether that's team or company or my hometown or sports teams I root for. Like, that's when my meter really ticks up. If it's about me getting an accolade or a better grade in class, I've just noticed it's not the same gear. And so that has led me more to roles where I'm able to impact the people around me so I can personally feel that success. Because it's like when we do something together, and so the people function is really an enabler of that. We accelerate organizational success versus do something ourselves the way a sales org would or a product manager would create and ship a product. And so I've found that that desire to work together with others and be a team player on a great team, that's what's reinforced this idea of the people working in that part of the business.

[B]

If you talk to different professionals and basically our audience, they're thinking one of a few things. First of all, I'm not sure what I want to do, maybe, but let's assume I kind of do. I would love to maybe work with some of these really cool companies. How do I even get in? And even if I do get in, how do I fast track to the leadership roles? What would be some of the tips that you would give our listeners?

[A]

Yeah, I think there are two different things. Number one, getting into a specific type of company or another team in a company, you work at. I think people underestimate just persistence. Like real persistence taking a year to try to get into a company versus sending three emails. I found that the professional endurance to overcome some of these things. I'm particularly thinking about recruiting. Like when you recruit someone really good, it could take a year, but people tend to have a much shorter timeframe for when they expect success or move on to the next thing. So if you want to work at a really great company and you know the company it is, be mentally prepared for it, taking a long time, and then find your connection points. You know, I think another really important concept this was kind of emerged in the 50s is the idea of weak ties, which you hear more about. It was actually a study on how people found jobs. What they discovered was in this famous study, it's the people you kind of know that are your way in. It's not the people you really know or don't know. It's your roommate's friend that you've met three times. They work at this company and they're happy to pass it along. So you have some level of social capital, but they're not like your tight group. And so activating that part of your network is really important. It takes a lot of hard work to get someone who kind of knows you to do something for you. But that's for sure where the connection points are. So your second question was about moving up into leadership. I think the more experience you get, people can get trapped into what's next versus understanding how they get things done is going to have to change as you move up in the organization. You really have to learn how to do things fundamentally differently. When you go from being someone who in their day job does a certain thing to getting worked on through other people, which is what being a manager is. You have to completely reframe how you think about solving problems. And then again, when you now are a leader who is managing people who lead teams, you have to go through a whole other loop. Like you're not managing the team anymore. So the process of unlearning and then learning new things, you want to have time to really reflect on how you're doing things versus just how do I get promoted? Or what's the next thing I want to be a part of.

[B]

First of all, John Maxwell said it beautifully with the people's pile, right? There's a huge people's pile trying to get into a lot of these companies, companies. And it's really about that persistence that actually moves the needle and lets you stand out. Because There is no traffic jam in the extra mile they will leave. So if you can actually be the person in that extra mile, that helps you stand out. And it was funny because last week I gave some small talk to Richard Branson and his son, et cetera, and one of the questions that he had is, are you good at delegating? And there's an element where you literally need to fire yourself from your previous role in order to be better at a new role. And as long as you keep on ducking your head in it. And there's an interesting challenge to have the visibility to know if there's red flags, but on the other hand, to literally delegate that and to move forward, it's a delicate move. Ryan, how do you train people to do that?

[A]

I think when people become that manager where they need to delegate for the first time, it's very rare. They get it right to first go, but they usually do one of two things. They either keep managing too much, so they continue to do what they used to do. And that stands out right away because most people don't want to be micromanaged. And it stands out like, get away from me. But what equally happens is people don't manage. They just give so much space that the team is no longer really moving at the same pace or level of quality that it should. And I think people oftentimes trip themselves up there because they don't want to be a micromanager. And so they overcorrect to leaving everyone alone, avoiding difficult conversations, not giving people the information they need to get to the next level because they want to be liked and not be seen as adding pressure. And so I think you go one of these two ways and then you find your way back to what's the right balance of providing clear direction, training someone to do the right way, giving them feedback when they're not doing it the way that they should, as well as giving people the space and autonomy to grow in their role. Ultimately, good managers find that equilibrium and know how to go both ways. I think when people first start, they kind of know how to do one, except in the rare case, it's very rare. People can do both really well. And so just being self aware of yourself, like, where are you going to end up? Are you going to be too accommodating or are you going to be too assertive? You probably have a point of view on yourself when you're making that transition, and it's to really practice the one that's a little less natural to you and make sure you're building up both of those capabilities.

[B]

Who would be the perfect person to course correct you? Because you're right. I think there's a little bit of this that is going to happen. And I think sometimes you also need to make mistakes in order to start learning from them. And sometimes you can actually get feedback in order to course correct before it's a catastrophe. Who do you think in the organization is the right person to help with that? Is it your boss? Is it chief people officer?

[A]

I think I won't pick the boss because the boss is going to play a role no matter what, you're going to get feedback. But how do you think through this problem? What's helped me is identifying people early on that you're coming up with the organization with. They're kind of like your work friends. You see things the same way. You can finish each other's sentences. That can give you a great space just to work through what you're going through. But then I've also found finding someone who is successful in a very different way from you, this is the person. It can be somewhat of a symbiotic relationship. You can kind of contrast your strengths and their strengths. And these combinations don't naturally come together because they tend to have different ways of operating. But if you build that relationship almost with your foil, you know, the person who is is not unsuccessful successful. They're just doing it a way you would never do. You're almost surprised that they're successful. That relationship can be very key. And so I encourage people to be proactive. You can usually think about it, you know, if the team's big enough, company's big enough, there's someone where you're like, I just don't get it. Go make a relationship with that person. Because they will get just as much out of you and in your way. And that can help buffer you from the stuff that's either uncomfortable or confusing or unknown. That's very natural to them because it's probably the opposite is true. The things that come very easy to you will probably be harder or more confusing for them.

[B]

So one of the things that we're seeing a lot in Leap Academy is when somebody joins a company, lands a role, and now they want to prove themselves, they have that famous 90 days or whatever you call it. What would you say to people that are coming in? I mean, you don't want somebody to just immediately change everything because they didn't even learn anything. What would you say is some of the more important things for them to really understand like somebody that is joining next door. What should be the first few months.

[A]

I'll give people two. And this works for leaders as well as anyone joining a company that I think are significant. The first is really around three or four weeks in. You almost have these night vision goggles where you can see the company, the culture, their processes, their way of doing things in this incredibly visceral way. Because your brain is actually working in overdrive because it's in a new environment. Your limbic brain is charging to make sense of this world. So you're actually accessing like way more juice than you normally would. And a couple weeks in, you kind of actually start to understand it, but you haven't yet assimilated. And so your ability to really share reactions over like, what is this company? Is profound. Three or four weeks in, around that timeframe, not your first week, everything's too new. Not two to three months in because you've kind of started to settle in, but like a month and you can just share incredible observations. So as a people leader, like I really seek out these new hire observations a month in because they can really confirm or educate on what you think your company actually is. And they have no agenda. They're just like, wow, this is really interesting. I've never seen this before. This really stands out. This is so cool. Those are like, the observations I think are really powerful and that can help your onboarding. You know, you're letting people understand maybe something they didn't appreciate that's so different because they've been here now for four or five years. It's just become their day to day. The second thing, which I think is one of the most common traps, one of the most common mistakes of starting in a new environment is this urge to like, just prove yourself too fast to swing for the fences. Because we all seek this validation where they're like, oh my God, Brian is such a good hire. Like, this guy's amazing. I'm so, like, everyone wants to hear that a month in. Like, who doesn't want to hear that? And so what that means is you're looking for this opportunity to just be like, oh, I totally got it, I understand, I know what to do. We should do this. The problem is related to the first point. There's so much you don't understand and so your brain might actually be making a mistake at pattern matching. You think you're seeing something you've seen before, but you actually don't. And the people you're working with will overreact to the early data Points on you. They will begin a narrative about who you are with your first one or two experiences. And so we've all had this experience of someone's new the first meeting. They just say, I know what we should do. We should do this. And you're like, yeah, we've been talking about that for months, about why that's not a good idea. That person doesn't know they just got here. But in your head, they're now a character in this story of they don't know what they're talking about, fair or unfair. And so it's really important to just do the little things. Build credibility and trust through doing what you say you're going to do, be in the place you're supposed to be. All these little things really add up. I think the best example, it's kind of like a pre Covid example at this point. But we're all told, don't be late to work on your first day. This was the thing our parents would say to us. Do not be late on your first day. And this really illustrates the point, because if you're late on the first day, they must not care about work. They might not take this seriously. They're not a prepared person. You and I, you work in the Bay Area. Your ability to get somewhere in the morning is plus or minus two and a half hours. Like, it has nothing to do with their capability. But the truth is, that's what people will start spinning in their subconscious or in their conscious brain. And so you just don't want to start that narrative. So whatever home run idea you think you have in your first month or two, if it's that good of an idea, it will still work in month 3, 4, 5, or 6. But more likely you're going to learn something else and be like, oh, wow, I am so glad I didn't say that. Now that I understand the bigger picture, that was totally not the right idea. So just really that counterintuitive because you have so much energy to do your job so well when you're new. You have to hold yourself back until you have as much context as you can to really qualify those bigger thoughts.

[B]

Absolutely agree. And I love the little wins. Yes, you want to create little wins, but you don't want to create those massive changes that right now are completely out of context because you didn't have the full picture. So, Brian, back to nextdoor maybe? Obviously, I think every person, at least in the U.S. i don't know, you tell me. Will know nextdoor. It's a brand. That took off. What do you think is the success of Nextdoor and maybe share a story of why this works.

[A]

If I was to say in one sentence, we're an essential neighborhood network. You come for utility, but you stay for the community. And when I zoom out, to me, it just makes sense that there's a use for a product that is about your neighbors. The idea of a neighbor as a relationship is a fundamental human idea. It goes back centuries. It cuts across all cultures. Everyone understands what a neighbor is, and it's not the same thing as your friend or your family or your coworker. And so for me, next Door just makes sense as a tool, right? As a technology that lets neighbors cultivate those relationships together. You pick your neighborhood. You don't really pick your neighbors. You have this shared identity with people that you might have totally different worldviews with. But at the same time, like, no matter what the person across the street from you thinks, politically, generationally, if you realize 20 minutes after you took off in the car, you might have left the garage door open, you could call them and they would go tell you because you would want to reciprocate that. It's a very different way of thinking about these types of relationships. And so Nextdoor is really at the heart of giving ways for neighbors to bring their neighborhood together. And it's particularly important in the more recent years of technology, where so much of people's day to day is now on their phones or on screens. We just really believe that Nextdoor is a way for people to come out of their house and get to know who's living around them. Maybe you connect online, but you will meet each other in the offline or in the real world is very different from the way other platforms are based on who you know, regardless of where they might live.

[B]

And I love that because the first time I heard of Nextdoor, it was many, many years ago when the company basically started. You know, I grew up back in Israel with a lot of neighbors. Like, neighborhood was a thing. We would always laugh that in the US There is no neighbors. You don't know the neighbors. And when Nextdoor came, it was like, I don't know if anybody here wants to know their neighbors. You know, that was our instinct. And somehow it did catch. What helped suddenly for that to become a community?

[A]

Well, I think the most important thing is the community is kind of already there. We find people who are active on Nextdoor. The people who are telling neighbors, hey, you know, this is going on where I live in the East Bay, there's the powers out or. No, that fire is not a real fire. Don't worry about it. There's certain people who are like these neighborhood leaders or community leaders, like they're naturally inclined to operate like this. Nextdoor's just giving them a platform to be able to do what's already their natural instinct that much easier. We don't need to create all of these leaders. We just need them to learn this is an easier way for them to connect with their neighbors in their neighborhood. Again, I think almost everyone has at least some level of shared identity with the people that live around them. Sometimes it's just crisis driven. It's like there is a fire nearby or there's a hurricane coming. But in those moments, everyone is worried about their local community. We've seen everywhere in the US in particular, when there's a hurricane warning or a flood warning, our usage goes up because people are now. Their neighborhood is now top of mind for them. It's an urgent, time sensitive situation. And so we're a great way for them to connect to the other people who really care where. You know, if you're in Maine, you're not as worried about a hurricane in Florida. So that's why the experience of the neighborhoods in Florida, getting online when there's a hurricane, it's just much easier and intuitive for them to think about what's going on locally with next door.

[B]

For you, were there days or times like Covid or whatever, did you feel that that actually grows the community or is that hurting the community? What did you see?

[A]

We see lots of little moments. What I mean by that is that what's harder for our platform is, you know, when the local neighborhood rallies around an event. Like we're famous for finding lost pets, which is a deeply personal, terrifying experience when someone can't find their dog. You know, I'm not sure that many people care hundreds of miles away about a dog that went missing, but everyone who knows the neighborhood, like they're all gonna go help find the dog, right? What was unique to Covid was that was a moment where the whole world cared about their local community. Everyone was worried about the elderly from getting exposed. Who can I help go to the grocery store with who might be immunocompromised? Like, that was a global local moment, which was totally rare. Like I said, we've seen these local moments, but they tend to be driven by some type of local event. And so what struck me which was really confirming was no, yeah, this is a whole world thing. It just depends on what's going on in the community during that time. That's what was really unique about the COVID experience being next door.

[B]

Ooh, fascinating. So, Brian, we usually end the conversation with. If you look back to your childhood or to some time in your life, what would be the biggest advice to your younger self?

[A]

Oh, man, there are so many things. I think what I found later, and it's tied to this idea of taking on challenging things. It's really about managing mental health and understanding what is really going to fill your tank or my tank with the positive energy to take on big things. I think really early I knew I wanted to take on challenges, but what I've learned is if I'm disciplined or maybe practiced with making the right amount of time for the right amount of activities that make sure I can take on the biggest and hardest things, I'll be better equipped to take on even more. It took me like a while to really put those two things together. And so the way I really think about it now is worry less about is it too hard or too much. As long as you're putting yourself in the best position to do your best, that time and understanding of what really gives you that juice is important. The people who are really self aware about this, who are really rigorous about doing the things that will give them energy and not do the things that don't, you can see they tend to achieve more. It took me a little later than I would have liked to really understand, like deeply understand the importance of this.

[B]

So put your own oxygen mask on and take it to the next level. I guess you're saying.

[A]

Yeah, and it's different for everybody. Like many people, when you're younger, you think about exciting things, going on vacation, traveling and new adventures. As I've gotten older, you know, it's a different set of things that really gets me ready and really trying different things to figure out what those are because I think that they're different for everybody. But understanding what it is for you in really knowing and really sticking to it, I think is simple but significant.

[B]

I think what you just said is so, so, so important for. And I want to make sure that our listeners aren't really grabbing this because life is in phases and different things will be important for us in different phases of our lives. How you talked about being intentional, strategic every year about what is important for you, that becomes really crucial because again, that will change. And if you're not very deliberate about what that is for you right now, you might be suffocating certain parts of your life without realizing it. And that's going to get to burnout and just not being the best version of yourself. Am I understanding this right, Brian?

[A]

Yeah, for sure. It's also the idea of recovery. I see so many people who are burned out or stressed, They've stopped these practices that help them recover. You know, I can think a woman I worked with, who I was really fond of, was just going through a difficult period. And I knew she was a college athlete, high school athlete, and she wanted to talk to me about. She didn't think she could get through this or whatever, just tough moment. And I was like, when was the last time you worked out or went for a run? She's like, it's been months. And I'm like, that's the thing. I know you. I know that this is the thing that lets you achieve these things. And those tend to be the first things that people cut when they're under duress. It's the exact wrong thing. I think when I was younger, this felt hypocritical to me, like, well, I don't understand. There's just not enough time. I need more time to do this. But there's only so much time, right? Energy is really the thing that you can control. And so taking away the things that will give you more energy limits the amount of stuff you're going to do with the time that's available to you. And so I think that took me longer than I wanted to internalize. And I see it again and again. I tell people and I feel them eye rolling, that they just don't have time to get another hour of sleep or to work out or to read books or to think they're like, I was too busy. But their ability to operate when busy is really compromised by this deficiency in their quality of their energy and the amount of it.

[B]

And I believe you cycle as well, so we share a little bit of that. And I agree you want to manage your energy, not just your time. And even if you just manage your time with depleting your energy, that's not helping you. Brian, I can't thank you enough for the time, the tips. I took so many notes. This is super valuable to everybody listening. And I want to just thank you so much for being here on the show.

[A]

Thank you for having me. The honor was all mine. I really appreciate you extending the invitation. I'm glad it was worthwhile.