Death by a Thousand Cuts

Summary

Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli: Episode Summary - "Death by a Thousand Cuts"

Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli, hosted by Mark Seal and Nathan King, delves deep into the tumultuous journey behind the making of Francis Ford Coppola’s iconic film, The Godfather. This episode, titled "Death by a Thousand Cuts," explores the myriad challenges faced during production, from location scouting and casting to post-production battles that nearly derailed the masterpiece. Drawing from both new and archival interviews, the hosts provide a comprehensive look into the creative and logistical hurdles that shaped the film’s legacy.

1. Arrival in Sicily: Scouting for Authenticity

The episode begins in July 1971 when Coppola and his crew arrive in Sicily to scout locations near Corleone, the fictional town central to the film’s narrative.

Mark Seale [02:03] sets the scene:

"A car rolls down the ancient roads outside of the sprawling city of Palermo. Inside the car are a local driver and three American filmmakers. The Godfather has arrived in Sicily."

The group, including production designer Dean Tavoularis and producer Gray Frederickson, face immediate resistance from the local mafia, which jeopardizes their efforts. As tensions rise, Dean Tavoularis attempts to take photos but is swiftly stopped:

Nathan King [02:40]: "The driver goes berserk. No camera, no photos. Someone will see, he says."

Coppola decides to move to the smaller villages in the hills near Taormina, seeking the authentic Sicilian ambiance essential for the film’s atmosphere.

2. Casting Apollonia: A Defining Moment

One of the pivotal moments discussed is the casting of Apollonia, a character whose relationship with Michael Corleone is crucial to the story. Coppola emphasizes the importance of her role:

Mark Seale [06:50]: "Coppola knew that Apollonia had to be a true beauty. Five pitfalls. If Apollonia doesn't make your heart stop."

After an extensive search, Simonetta Stefanelli is cast in the role, despite not being a well-known actress at the time. Her chemistry with Al Pacino adds depth to the character dynamic, even though she doesn't speak English:

Nathan King [07:48]: "And for such a short-lived character, she delivers an incredible performance. And her and Pacino have an incredible chemistry as well."

Pacino reflects on his experience in Sicily, feeling a sense of freedom away from the pressures of New York:

Mark Seale [08:11]: "Pacino felt so at home there, freed up from the pressures that he had in New York where he felt like he was going to be fired."

3. Transition to Post-Production: Tensions Rise

Upon returning to Los Angeles, the mood shifts dramatically as post-production challenges emerge. Robert Evans, the studio executive, becomes increasingly obsessive about the film’s edit.

Robert Evans sustains a severe back injury during this period, exacerbating the stress:

Mark Seale [13:34]: "He was in immense pain, completely drugged up with painkillers and cocaine and literally being wheeled between the Paramount editing rooms in West Hollywood on a gurney."

Coppola moves to San Francisco to begin the editing process, distancing himself from Evans’ looming presence in LA. However, this does not alleviate the mounting pressures.

4. The Editing Battle: Coppola vs. Evans

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the intense conflict over the film’s length. Coppola and his editors work meticulously to craft a version nearly three hours long, while Evans insists on cutting it down to 2 hours and 15 minutes.

Coppola and his team present the extended cut to Paramount executives, only to receive harsh criticism:

Mark Seale [16:44]: "Evans was in a feud with Paramount's new president, Frank Yablans, who were both vying for the approval of Charlie Bludorn."

Frustrated, Coppola faces the ultimatum to shorten the film, leading to a fraught dynamic where he must navigate studio demands while maintaining his creative vision. Despite Evan’s attempts to control the edit, Coppola stands firm:

Mark Seale [18:26]: "Coppola had to cut 40 minutes from his masterpiece. Oh no, it gets worse. Not only does he have to cut 40 minutes, he has to take the new cut down to LA to screen it in the pool house at Woodland for an addled Robert Evans."

5. The Public Press War

The conflict extends beyond the editing rooms into the public sphere. The premiere’s delay from Christmas to March becomes a significant talking point, fueled by Evans’ revelations to the press about his role in saving the film:

Nathan King [21:07]: "The press caught wind that the premiere was being pushed from Christmas to March, which, according to Evans, spells disaster for a movie."

This public feud strains Coppola and Evans' relationship, adding another layer of complexity to the production woes.

6. The Score Showdown: Nino Rota vs. Henry Mancini

One of the climactic battles of the episode revolves around the film’s musical score. Coppola envisions a haunting, darker score by Italian composer Nino Rota, while Evans pushes for the inclusion of Henry Mancini’s brighter, more American melodies.

Coppola embarks on a quest to contact Rota, an elusive figure, and successfully secures his collaboration:

Mark Seale [26:05]: "Coppola had to hunt down a phantom of sorts... He found a connection through Suso Cecchi Diamocco, who arranged a meeting at Nino Rota's apartment in Rome."

After an extensive screening, Rota presents his score to Coppola, who immediately integrates it into the film. However, Evans remains resistant, advocating for Mancini’s score:

Mark Seale [28:05]: "Evans called an emergency meeting... He makes his case for using Henry Mancini's music for the film."

In a dramatic resolution, Coppola’s team, led by Walter Murch, manages to subtly alter Rota’s score to satisfy Evans, ultimately securing approval:

Mark Seale [29:23]: "So I did things that I had done on GHX 1138, which was to take two copies of the music and slide one part of the music against the other one so that there's a sort of dissonance going on... When the scene finished, he jumped off of the bed and said, it's great, it's great."

7. Final Triumph: Coppola’s Vision Prevails

The episode culminates in Coppola’s unwavering commitment to his vision. Despite numerous obstacles—ranging from casting issues and location challenges to intense studio conflicts—Coppola and his dedicated team prevail.

Mark Seale wraps up the narrative by highlighting Coppola’s relentless pursuit of excellence:

Mark Seale [31:57]: "So Coppola and his team won every battle, casting, location, filming, editing, and music. He vanquished his enemies and got to make exactly the movie he wanted."

8. Conclusion: Reflecting on a Masterpiece

In closing, Coppola reflects on the completed film:

Mark Seale [32:09]: "And after all of that, he still thought he'd made a long, boring movie."

The episode concludes by acknowledging the collaborative efforts that ultimately crafted The Godfather into a timeless classic, despite the fierce struggles faced during its creation.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Mark Seale [02:03]: "The Godfather has arrived in Sicily."
• Nathan King [07:48]: "And for such a short-lived character, she delivers an incredible performance."
• Mark Seale [08:11]: "Pacino felt so at home there, freed up from the pressures that he had in New York."
• Mark Seale [18:26]: "Coppola had to cut 40 minutes from his masterpiece."
• Mark Seale [29:23]: "It's great, it's great."
• Mark Seale [31:57]: "He vanquished his enemies and got to make exactly the movie he wanted."

Final Thoughts

"Death by a Thousand Cuts" provides an intricate look into the making of The Godfather, showcasing Francis Ford Coppola’s resilience and dedication in overcoming significant production challenges. Through detailed storytelling and insightful interviews, Mark Seal and Nathan King illuminate the complexities behind creating one of Hollywood’s greatest films, offering listeners a profound appreciation for the artistry and perseverance that defined its production.

Transcript

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[Mark Seale]

It'S July of 1971. A car rolls down the ancient roads outside of the sprawling city of Palermo. Inside the car are a local driver and three American filmmakers. The Godfather has arrived in Sicily. Francis Ford Coppola, his production designer Dean Tapoularis and producer Gray Frederickson are scouting locations near Corleone, the town whose name Mario Puzo appropriated for his American Mafia family.

[Nathan King]

Dean Tavoularis takes his camera out of his bag and starts taking photos from the back window of the car. The driver goes berserk. No camera, no photos. Someone will see, he says.

[Mark Seale]

On this Summer's Day in 1971, many mobsters still live here, which causes the furor over Tavoularis Camera.

[Nathan King]

Tensions are high. A judge was recently assassinated, and the authorities think the culprit is hiding out in Corleone.

[Mark Seale]

But Corleone is too urban, dirty and crowded to capture Coppola's vision. The group travels on. They finally reach the tiny villages in the hills just a few miles away from the coastal resort town of Taormina. Here is Coppola's land of ghosts, where Michael comes to live in exile. I'm Mark Seale.

[Nathan King]

And I'm Nathan King, and this is.

[Mark Seale]

Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.

[Nathan King]

In today's episode, we're making our way from the Sicilian light to the darkness of Hollywood editing studios and the tumultuous season of post production.

[Mark Seale]

From drug induced obsession to compulsive defiance, the war behind the making of the Godfather rages on.

[Nathan King]

So we escaped grim New York for the hot, bright light of Sicily in July of 1971.

[Mark Seale]

Yes, and it comes as a relief for Coppola and our beleaguered crew.

[Nathan King]

The slimmed down cast and crew went to Sicily for two weeks, which was yet another fight that Coppola had with the studio.

[Mark Seale]

The studio brass, of course, thought it would be a lot simpler and a lot less expensive to shoot on the backlot of the studio than to travel all the way to Sicily with a crew and shoot there.

[Nathan King]

Can you imagine how different that would have looked?

[Mark Seale]

Yeah, I think it would have made a big difference. I mean, you can feel these scenes when Michael's walking through these back roads of Sicily with his bodyguards, and then he meets Apollonia by chance and is hit by what he calls the thunderbolt. Even Gordon Willis, the prince of darkness, embraced the Sicilian light. Here he is in a 2002 interview on NPR. So I figured at that point Sicily should look, you know, mythical and sunny and kind of storybook feeling. So there was a juxtaposition between these two places, New York and Sicily. And there was a counterpoint when we went back and forth.

[Nathan King]

Willis and Coppola were finally getting along once they got to Sicily, why the sudden congeniality? Were they just happy to be in Italy?

[Mark Seale]

Well, I think the pressure was a little turned down. Filming was almost over. And crucially, Jack Ballard was an ocean away, no longer breathing down their necks.

[Nathan King]

If Jack Ballard is gone, how Is Robert Evans keeping tabs on filming?

[Mark Seale]

Well, he's really not. Jack Ballard had this idea that dailies could be overnighted to him every day, but that didn't really work out.

[Nathan King]

I have a feeling they got lost in the mail.

[Mark Seale]

It wasn't the best plan. Listen to this memo. TWA Flight 845 leaving Rome 2:00pm every day and arrives in Los Angeles 1:05am the next day. This means Monday's dailies would be sent on Tuesday, arrived Hollywood Wednesday, run in Beverly Hills the same day, and we in turn would ship Thursday morning.

[Nathan King]

Well, no wonder Coppola was happy. By the time he gets notes on the first day of shooting, four days have gone by.

[Mark Seale]

Yeah, exactly. And it didn't work out the way Jack Ballard wanted. According to Al Ruddy, the shooting in Sicily just went smoothly. They got in, did their work and got out with very little fanfare.

[Nathan King]

So tell me about casting the Sicilians. I know the casting of Apollonia was so important to Coppola.

[Mark Seale]

It was. And Coppola gave an interview in 2001 that we've mentioned before where he takes us through his prompt book. I'm in the Sicilian section. I see it says the core to show how Michael meets and falls in love with Apollonia and demonstrate that he intends to marry her and indicate Fabrizio's desire to go to America. And even at this stage of early planning, Coppola knew that Apollonia had to be a true beauty. Five pitfalls. If Apollonia doesn't make your heart stop.

[Nathan King]

Just to look at her, how did Coppola end up finding the woman who would play Apollonia? Simonetta Stafanelli.

[Mark Seale]

Well, there were a list of 22 frontrunners. They were looking at really more well known young Italian actresses, but ultimately they still weren't quite there with the casting of Apollonia. And a casting director sent Coppola a and he said, let's meet her. And so he met her for an audition and she apparently was perfect.

[Nathan King]

And for such a short lived character, she delivers an incredible performance. And her and Pacino have an incredible chemistry as well.

[Mark Seale]

Yes, and she spoke no English, but she later said in an interview that she could tell Pacino wanted to talk to her, but they mostly spoke with their eyes.

[Nathan King]

And Sicily was a bit of a homecoming for Pacino. Right. His grandparents were from there, if I'm not mistaken.

[Mark Seale]

Yes, and I think he felt so at home there, freed up from the pressures that he had in New York where he felt like he was going to be fired. And in Sicily, he knew the role was his and he was able to relax a little bit. You know, I was able to interview Pacino by email for the book. And I can read you a bit of what he said about filming in Sicily. And I quote, the Sicilian people embraced us. I loved their honesty, openness and hospitality. I had not become well known, so I had the luxury of just being another person.

[Nathan King]

And that very much mirrors his character in the movie Michael, who sort of escapes New York and lives in relative anonymity in Sicily.

[Michael Corleone]

My name is Michael Corleone, Miguel Gorleone. There are people who pay a lot of money for that information. But then your daughter would lose a.

[Mark Seale]

Father.

[Michael Corleone]

Instead of gaining a husband.

[Mark Seale]

I think Pacino felt freed up from the pressures that he had in New York, where he felt like he was going to be fired. And in Sicily, he knew the role was his and he was able to relax a little bit. And you can kind of see it. You know, you see him in the villages, drinking at that bar, meeting Apollonia's father and walking down those ancient roads. I mean, you feel he's more relaxed.

[Nathan King]

So filming in Sicily ends with the literal bang of Apollonia's untimely death.

[Michael Corleone]

No, no, I belong.

[Mark Seale]

As Simonetta Stefanelli. So simply put it in that interview, I met him, I married him, I died.

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[Nathan King]

When it came time to leave Sicily, the production moves back to Los Angeles where the mood is quite different.

[Mark Seale]

Now the fight over post production begins.

[Nathan King]

But for this fight, Coppola has A slightly different Robert Evans to contend with.

[Mark Seale]

That's right. During the height of filming, when Evans was watching dailies and absolutely obsessed with the movie, he injured his back, supposedly playing tennis. Here's what his then wife, Allie McGraw told me.

[Michael Corleone]

He played very good but very unbeautiful tennis. And he just, you know, it was just a freak thing. He just swung back and tripped and torqued his back severely.

[Mark Seale]

He was in immense pain, completely drugged up with painkillers and cocaine and literally being wheeled between the Paramount editing rooms in West Hollywood on a gurney. Here's Peter Bart.

[Michael Corleone]

But he was in such terrible shape then. He was physically a mess and he looked like a ghost.

[Nathan King]

I feel like this whole episode goes to show how dedicated Evans was. Nothing was going to stop him from leaving his mark on the film.

[Mark Seale]

Certainly not. But as he wrote in his memoir several years later, the drugs really took a toll on him.

[Nathan King]

So Evans is running his empire from McGurney. Where's Coppola?

[Mark Seale]

Coppola basically recuses himself back to San Francisco to take a first pass at the edit. He and his wife Eleanor had just bought a huge Victorian mansion in San Francisco's Pacific Heights neighborhood.

[Nathan King]

That's a step up from the borrowed apartment in New York.

[Mark Seale]

It was a step up, but according to Eleanor, these previous owners had a lot of dogs and so they woke up in the middle of the night scratching and they had been bitten by fleas.

[Nathan King]

But at least he's not in la. Coppola had insisted from the beginning that the Godfather was not and should never be an LA production.

[Mark Seale]

I think it was a technicality. Coppola is in San Francisco, but Robert Evans presence had followed him there. Coppola later said that Evans threatened to take the edit away from him if he delivered a movie longer than 2 hours and 15 minutes.

[Nathan King]

So where does he begin?

[Mark Seale]

Well, Coppola hires two editors, Bill Reynolds and Peter Zinner, and the trio start the editing process right in that flea ridden Victorian home where they screen almost 90 hours of footage. It was so much to get through that the two editors flipped a coin. Reynolds would take the first half and Zinner the second, and somehow the three of them got a cut together that was 2 hours and 53 minutes long.

[Nathan King]

Well, that's it. Coppola loses the edit if Evans rule is to be believed.

[Mark Seale]

Yes. In his characteristic defiance, Coppola delivers a cut that he knows is too long. He showed it first to his colleagues at American Zoetrope in a San Francisco screening room and then to the suits at Paramount at The Gulf and Western building in New York.

[Nathan King]

How does Robert Evans make it to New York with his bad back?

[Mark Seale]

I have no clue.

[Nathan King]

Maybe with the help of some drugs.

[Mark Seale]

Maybe.

[Nathan King]

So what are the reactions to the screening?

[Mark Seale]

Well, Coppola remembers the San Francisco reaction being just so. So. Walter Murch remembered it being incredible. But the New York screening was a different story. Here's Peter Bart and the person in.

[Michael Corleone]

Charge of Italy, the territory, said that the picture would never play in Italy. He said, I'm not sure it's even worth advertising it overseas. Just not a good movie. So it was very negative at that point.

[Mark Seale]

Apparently, Evans was in a feud with Paramount's new president, Frank Yablans, who were both vying for the approval of Charlie Bludorn.

[Michael Corleone]

Frank said, too long, won't play it often enough and he didn't like the picture that much.

[Mark Seale]

So word gets back to San Francisco that Coppola has to cut 40 minutes from his masterpiece. Oh no, it gets worse. Not only does he have to cut 40 minutes, he has to take the new cut down to LA to screen it in the pool house at Woodland for an addled Robert Evans.

[Nathan King]

And how does Evans feel about the new cut?

[Mark Seale]

Robert Evans groans. He says the shorter version, which by the way, is still 2 hours and 15 minutes, feels even longer. Here's Evans sparing no words about how he felt in his memoir.

[I]

The picture stinks. Francis got it. The Untouchables is better. You shot a great film. Where the fuck is it? In your kitchen with your spaghetti? It sure ain't on the screen. Where's the family? The heart? The feeling Seth left in the kitchen too.

[Mark Seale]

He immediately calls New York and tells Al Ruddy that if they leave it at 2:15 that he's walking and they can close the fucking studio.

[I]

Name me a studio head that tells a director to make a picture longer. Only a nut like me would.

[Nathan King]

Sounds about right.

[Mark Seale]

The movie consumed him. And keep in mind, he's still being rolled around on this gurney and insists that Coppola stay in LA so they can edit the movie together.

[Nathan King]

This guy can't escape.

[Mark Seale]

No, he really can't. And to make it worse, Coppola is strapped for cash at this time. He's waiting on his next paycheck, so he's staying in James Caan's guest room.

[Nathan King]

And how long does it take?

[Mark Seale]

About two weeks. But the facts are fuzzy, partially, I think, because Evans later would recall it like something out of a bad acid trip. Here's Evans again, reading from his memoir.

[I]

I was feeling like a Fucking cartoon character. Having various hands turn me over from one orthopedic bed to another, from bedroom to home screening room to Paramount screening rooms to bed on wheels, going from soundstage to soundstage.

[Mark Seale]

He was completely consumed by the Godfather, and I think he went a little nuts.

[I]

My priorities were so fucked up and nothing bothered me. Nothing got in my way, including my health, my wife, my kid, my finances. My obsession was the Godfather.

[Nathan King]

And how did that obsession show up in the edit?

[Mark Seale]

Well, according to Evans, he made the radical decision to make the film longer, and he painstakingly extended shots and found new scenes.

[Nathan King]

But Coppola wanted it longer from the beginning.

[Mark Seale]

Exactly. I was able to communicate with Coppola over email when I was writing the book and I sent him a list of questions next to the question, what were Robert Evans contributions to the final edit of the film? He just left a blank.

[Nathan King]

So no contribution, apparently.

[Mark Seale]

And it makes sense that they have different recollections of this time. According to Peter Barth, they weren't even speaking. They just spoke through him. Here's what Peter told me.

[Michael Corleone]

Now, Bob feels that he found scenes that Francis had left out and nuance, scenes that had great nuance about character and restored those. I do not know who is right. I suspect that A, that Francis is correct, that B, that Bob also had a brilliant take on the picture and did let scenes run long that had been cut too abruptly.

[Nathan King]

And it wasn't just a behind the scenes battle. There was a public press war going on too. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

[Mark Seale]

Yes. The press caught wind that the premiere was being pushed from Christmas to March, which, according to Evans, spells disaster for a movie.

[Michael Corleone]

And it was exacerbated by Bob then foolishly confiding in Joyce Haber, the columnist, that he had saved the movie, that he had recut it and saved the Godfather.

[Nathan King]

That's a pretty brazen insult. Why do you think he did this? It can't be good press that a director and studio executive were warring over the edit.

[Mark Seale]

Well, it certainly drummed up excitement for the movie. But according to Bart, Evans and Joyce Haber were friends and it might not have been premeditated.

[Michael Corleone]

So in a moment of weakness, Bob says this and it gets in the paper. And Francis, rightly, as fragile as their relationship had been, it became more fragile because in Francis Coppola's opinion, the movie didn't need to be saved. 90% of it could have been done by restoring the cut that Yablanz had seen and rejected.

[Nathan King]

Well, whatever happened, Evans and Coppola must have done something right.

[Mark Seale]

Yep, and everybody wants credit, right? Al Ruddy put a Hollywood spin on the famous quote. A bad movie is like an orphan, but a Great movie has 28 fathers.

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[Nathan King]

The post production battle, things came to a head between Coppola and Evans with the film's iconic score. Tell us about this final battle, Mark.

[Mark Seale]

Well, if you can believe it, this was a bigger knockdown drag out fight than the editing.

[Nathan King]

Oh, I can believe it with these guys.

[Mark Seale]

Apparently, while in Sicily, Coppola could hear the haunting score of the Godfather in his head. He knew exactly what he wanted. But the problem was that Evans knew exactly what he wanted as well, and they were polar opposites.

[Nathan King]

In fact, Evans had already commissioned a composer to do the score.

[Mark Seale]

Yes, and get ready for this. It was Henry Mancini who had done Breakfast at Tiffany's.

[Nathan King]

And Copa, on the other hand, felt that the film needed something a little bit darker. And he wanted Nino Rota, who was called the Italian Mozart.

[Mark Seale]

Rota was an elusive Italian who had composed the score for Franco Zaffarelli's Romeo and Julia. Only problem was, Nino Rota lived in Rome and he wasn't easy to find. His nephew had told me that he was like a phantom, you know, when he didn't want to be found, he simply disappeared.

[Nathan King]

So how did Coppola find him?

[Mark Seale]

So Coppola had to hunt down a phantom of sorts. Right? But he found a connection. It was an Italian actress and screenwriter, Suso Cecchi Diamocco, who arranged a meeting at Nina Roto's apartment in Rome where Coppola screened an early cut of the film.

[Nathan King]

Dare I ask how long it was?

[Mark Seale]

It was five hours. He showed him a five hour cut of the movie.

[Nathan King]

Can you imagine? What did Rhoda think?

[Mark Seale]

Well, apparently Rhoda loved it. There was an immediate connection between these two artists and Coppola left Rhoda with the cut and instructions for each piece of music that he felt was needed. By the time Coppola went back to Rome for his second visit with Rhoda, he had an edited version of the film and Rhoda had a surprise for him.

[Nathan King]

What was it?

[Mark Seale]

He picked up Coppola at the airport and he was humming a song.

[Nathan King]

That's it.

[Mark Seale]

And Evans hated it.

[Nathan King]

You're kidding.

[Mark Seale]

Six weeks before the release, which would be March of 1972, Robert Evans called an emergency meeting at Woodland. It was a hot dog lunch served by his wife, Allie McGraw. And in this meeting he makes his case for using Henry Mancini's music for the film. He says the dark movie needs some bright American music to counter all of the blood and all of the bodies.

[Nathan King]

How did Coppola react to this?

[Mark Seale]

Not well. He goes on one of his signature diatribes and says if they want to change the music, they can fire him, hire another director and make them take out the music. Evans says he wants to screen two versions of the film to test audiences and let the audiences choose.

[Nathan King]

Isn't it a little late for that?

[Mark Seale]

Of course. And luckily, just as he's making this argument, Ally McGraw walks into the room with more hot dogs and reminds Evans that they have plans to go to Acapulco.

[Nathan King]

Saved by the bell.

[Mark Seale]

Finally, Evans and Coppola strike a deal. They'll screen just the latest cut with Coppola's music to a small audience. And if they don't like the music, Coppola will take it out.

[Nathan King]

What did the audience think?

[Mark Seale]

Of course they loved it.

[Nathan King]

And did Evans ever come around to the music?

[Mark Seale]

Yes. And Walter Murch tells a fantastic story about Coppola leaving him in LA to finish the music with Evans. Here's Walter Murch.

[J]

What is it about this music that Bug? It's great music. Why doesn't he like it? And for some reason I thought, well, wait a minute, he's the head of a studio and there's this scene with the head of a studio, Waltz Studios. And that guy finds a horse's head in his bed and there's music. And it, it is a little soft, that music. Maybe. Is there something that I can do in music editing to make it a little more edgy than it is. And so I did things that I had done on GHX 1138, which was to take two copies of the music and slide one part of the music against the other one so that there's a sort of dissonance going on. So I called Evans up and said, we have something to show you. And he came in, he lay down on the bed and we pushed the button. We played it, and when the scene finished, he jumped off of the bed and said, it's great, it's great.

[Nathan King]

Do you think he knew that he had lost the battle and wanted to be on the right side of the story?

[Mark Seale]

It's possible. I also think this was an incredible moment in the movie and that small change must have swayed him.

[Nathan King]

And I have to ask, what happened with Jack Ballard?

[Mark Seale]

Well, in an almost surreal moment of karma, Jack Ballard took his last stand and was properly cut down to size.

[J]

We were at the Paramount lot screening the sound effects for real right after Don Corleone leaves the hospital.

[Mark Seale]

Jack Ballard walked into the room and listened to a few minutes of sound effects.

[J]

And then he stood up and said, these are the worst sound effects I've ever heard in my life. And if the final film is going to sound like this, you're never going to work in this town again.

[Mark Seale]

The 28 year old Walter Murch spoke.

[J]

Up and said, jack, you don't know what you're talking about.

[Mark Seale]

There was a long silence and he was swaying slightly.

[J]

And I said, on top of everything else, you're drunk. And he looked at everyone and he said, you're right, I am drunk. And I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Keep up the good work.

[Mark Seale]

And with that, he turned and left the room.

[Nathan King]

So Coppola and his team won every battle, casting, location, filming, editing and music. He vanquished his enemies and got to make exactly the movie he wanted.

[Mark Seale]

And after all of that, he still thought he'd made a long, boring movie. Leave the Gun Take the Cannoli is a production of Airmail and iHeartMedia.

[Nathan King]

The podcast is based on the book of the same name, written by our very own Mark Seal.

[Mark Seale]

Our producer is Tina Mullen.

[Nathan King]

Research assistants by Jack Sullivan.

[Mark Seale]

Jonathan Dressler was our development producer.

[Nathan King]

Our music supervisor is Randall Poster. Our executive producers are me, Nathan King, Mark Seal, Dylan Fagan and Graydon Carter.

[Mark Seale]

Special thanks to Bridget Arceneaux and everyone at CDM Studios.

[Nathan King]

A comprehensive list of sources and acknowledgments can be found in Mark Seals book. Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli, published by Gallery, an imprint of Simon and Schuster.

[Ryan]

It's tax season, and by now I know we're all a bit tired of numbers, but here's an important one you need to hear $16.5 billion. That's how much money in refunds the IRS flagged for possible identity fraud last year. Here's another 20%. That's the overall increase in identity theft related to tax fraud in 2024 alone. But it's not all grim news. Here's a good number. 100 million. That's how many data points Lifelock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, LifeLock's US based restoration specialists will fix it, backed by another good number, the million dollar protection plan. In fact, restoration is guaranteed or your money back. Don't face identity theft and financial losses alone. There's strength in numbers with Lifelock Identity theft protection for tax season and beyond. Join now and save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code iheart or go to lifelock.com iheart for 40% off. Terms apply. Vacation planning should feel like a breeze, not a deep dive into countless travel sites searching for the best deal with Cheap Caribbean's Budget Beach Finder, you can search every destination and every date all in one search. You'll save time and money with the Budget Beach Finder, so say goodbye to endless scrolling and tab hopping and hello to budget beach bliss at your fingertips. Go to cheapcaribian.com to try out the Budget Beachfinder and see just how stress free vacation planning should be for some of us.

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[Mark Seale]

Connect with [e-mail] Amazon Pharmacy presents Painful Thoughts 20 more minutes to kill in the pharmacy before my prescription is ready. Maybe I'll grab some deeply discounted out of season Halloween candy. I never had a chocolate with pumpkin with raisins before.

[Nathan King]

Those were raisins, right?

[Mark Seale]

Next time use Amazon Pharmacy. We deliver. And no, those were not raisins.

[Ryan]

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