Left To Their Own Devices

Podcast: Left To Their Own Devices
Host: Toronto Star (Ava Smithing)
Episode: Left to Our Own Devices (Episode 10)
Date: November 21, 2025

Overview

This culminating episode of “Left to Their Own Devices” weaves together deeply personal stories and global policy shifts to grapple with the central question: What happens when a generation is handed the world’s most powerful digital tools, and left to figure it all out without precedent or protection? Host Ava Smithing reflects on her own journey while investigating the impacts of social media and technology on youth, featuring interviews with young people and policymakers across continents. As Australia gears up for a historic ban on social media for those under 16, the episode explores whether government regulation or grassroots youth initiatives offer more hope for a healthier, more human relationship with technology.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Stories from the Digital Frontlines

Harrison Haynes’ Journey from Trauma to Community

• Harrison’s Dream and Turning Point (00:41 - 02:34)
  • After experiencing online victimization and subsequent porn addiction, Harrison describes a transformative dream that led him to seek real-life community.

    “My son, you’ve planted all your seeds in the wrong gardens, and it’s time to wake up.” – Harrison Haynes, quoting his dream (01:51)

  • Joins a Christian youth group and finds solidarity around shared struggles with addiction.
  • Emphasizes the healing power of “being fully, unapologetically human in front of other people.” (03:40)

Digital Minimalism and Accountability

• Building a New Life (03:47 - 04:39)
  • Harrison now lives with five roommates who share his vision of a tech-limited lifestyle.

    “My phone is locked down by my roommate. He has a passcode on it. I have a passcode on his… We want to see a life where we’re free from pornography and also other things. I don’t want to spend my precious hours, my 75 years, doing things that I hate.” – Harrison Haynes (03:56)

  • Practices tech boundaries: limited app access, no endless scrolling, accountability partners.

Broader Generational Reflections

• Changing Attitudes About Social Media Use (05:01 - 05:39)

  • Reporter notes a recent Financial Times study indicating social media use among youth peaked in 2022 and is now declining.

    “It seems like our generation is finally starting to realize that maybe spending a good chunk of our lives on platforms designed to capture our attention isn’t the best way to spend our time.” – Ava Smithing (05:27)

2. The Policy Response: Australia’s Groundbreaking Social Media Ban

Julie Inman Grant and the eSafety Commission

• Background & Motivation (07:46 - 09:03)
  • Julie details her tech industry background (Microsoft, Twitter) and eventual turn toward child online safety regulation.

    "I was then recruited as one of Microsoft’s first law firm [reps] in Washington D.C. ... We truly believed ... that over-regulation would stop the growth of the Internet in its tracks ... Of course, we weren't thinking about social media then." – Julie Inman Grant (08:39)

The Tragic Catalyst

• Charlotte Dawson’s Death, Public Reaction (09:25 - 10:11)

  • The suicide of a public figure after online harassment awakened national consciousness about tech harms, leading to the creation of the world’s first eSafety Commission.

    “Tweets like, ‘Why didn’t you stick your head in the oven and finish the job?’ Just terrible abuse ... Australians started saying enough is enough.” – Julie Inman Grant (09:52)

Australia’s Three-Pronged Approach

• Prevention, Protection, Proactive Change (10:22 - 10:54)

  • Prevention: Education for digital literacy and resilience.

  • Protection: Mechanisms against harmful or illegal content (cyberbullying, deepfakes).

  • Proactive Change: Ensuring tech safety pre-launch.

    “How do we minimize the threat, surface for the future and become an anticipatory regulator so that technology change doesn’t hit us in the face.” – Julie Inman Grant (10:54)

The Ban: Science, Controversy, and Populism

• Banning Social Media Under 16 (11:17 - 13:21)
  • Australia is the first country to enact such a sweeping policy, with strong public support (over 75%).
    • The policy was sparked by political momentum, not rigorous science.

    “The research and the science isn’t totally fixed on this.... Probably it’s the tail wagging the dog in some ways.” – Julie Inman Grant (12:30)

    • The age limit of 16 is not evidence-based.

    “There wasn’t really an evidence base that was used to choose 16 as the age.” – Julie Inman Grant (13:06)

Implementation Challenges

• Age Verification Hurdles (14:12 - 15:20)
  • A novel French AI tool, “border age,” is being tested, but age-prediction algorithms remain only 85% accurate.

    “One minute I’m getting 15, the next I’m getting 19. ... Oh, it gave me 29. That same one looking at it, and I’ve been told my whole life I look about four years younger than what I actually am.” – Maddie Freeman (15:00, 15:09)

Ethical Considerations

• Are Bans the Answer? (15:20 - 16:34)
  • Ava highlights social media’s positive roles, including medical support and social justice.

    “For the vast majority of people, social media has almost no effect on their overall happiness and mental health.” – Ethan Zuckerman via Harrison Haynes (16:23)

3. Youth Agency: Taking Tech Boundaries Into Their Own Hands

Maddie Freeman’s Story: From Fan Culture to Grassroots Activism

• Beginnings with Social Media (17:04 - 18:29)
  • Early infatuation with online community (e.g., celebrating a Twitter follow from Justin Bieber).
  • Remembers initial thrill and social acceptance of having devices.

Crisis in the Community

• A Generation in Pain (18:36 - 19:36)

  • A pattern of suicides, drug use, and general despair among peers.

    “I struggled immensely. ... I had severe depression ... like, horrible suicidal ideation from the time I was 12 years old on. And I barely made it through. Like, I barely, barely, barely scraped by to go stay alive.” – Maddie Freeman (18:52)

  • Social media, school shootings, and drug culture intersect in amplifying stress.

    “We grew up as a generation that was just mentally unwell.... Your coping mechanism is on steroids ... now you can smoke and consume content.” – Maddie Freeman & Ava Smithing (20:49)

• The Grief Olympics (21:27)

  • Social media changes the way young people process tragedy, often in unhealthy, performative ways.

    “People would be posting, like, photos with the person who died, and it was like a competition of who was closest...” – Maddie Freeman (21:27)

Channeling Grief into Action

• Becoming a Changemaker (22:30 - 23:29)
  • After losing a close friend, Maddie researched social media’s role in youth mental health and recognized its addictive business model.

    “All that time I was spending online, my own depression, my suicidal ideation, like, I was getting recommended pain ... and then, like, all of it just came to a head and I was like, oh, wow. Like, this is a big issue.” – Maddie Freeman (23:29)

“NoSo November”: Voluntary Digital Detox

• Inventing a New Ritual (23:41 - 26:18)

  • Maddie invites peers to a one-month social media detox.

    • Early withdrawal is hard; facing boredom and difficult emotions is eye-opening.

    “When you don’t have that anymore, your brain is like, whoa, what is going on? ... Like, we can't just sit with them and experience that. Like, we have to numb it and distract it.” – Maddie Freeman (23:58)

  • The results are dramatic: reported improvements in mental health, relationships, anxiety, and even literal lives saved.

    “Another girl told me that it literally saved her life. ... If I didn’t do this, I don’t think I’d be here.” – Maddie Freeman (25:05)

  • NoSo November spreads globally, helping thousands of kids reclaim presence and well-being.

    “Even kids who might seem like they’re hopelessly addicted ... after a few weeks... ‘My life is so good right now. I don’t want to go back.’” – Maddie Freeman (26:18)

4. Reflections on Agency, Policy, and What’s Next

The Limits of Law, and the Power of Choice

• Living On Our Own Terms (27:11 - 29:09)

  • Ava summarizes: Government regulation is important, but will never be a silver bullet; genuine digital well-being requires self-knowledge and intentional boundaries.

    “Because even if a country decides to ban certain platforms, kids will always have access to some technology. So we need to figure out how to live with it in a way that works for us.” – Ava Smithing (27:47)

  • Harrison’s closing wisdom: We may not control everything, but the way we spend our time is a daily, powerful choice.

    “If Instagram isn’t on the top of the list of what’s the most important thing to you, then why isn’t that reflected in the way that you live? ... To create that space to enjoy moments between moments ... is huge.” – Harrison Haynes (28:14)

• Final Note

  • Ava reminds listeners: Though her generation didn’t choose to be “left to their own devices,” what they do next is in their hands.

    “We didn’t get any say in that. But what we do next, well, I think that’s up to us.” – Ava Smithing (29:09)

Notable Quotes

| Time | Speaker | Quote | |---------|------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:51 | Harrison Haynes | “My son, you’ve planted all your seeds in the wrong gardens, and it’s time to wake up.” | | 03:56 | Harrison Haynes | “My phone is locked down by my roommate ... We want to see a life where we’re free from pornography and also other things.” | | 05:27 | Ava Smithing | “It seems like our generation is finally starting to realize that maybe spending a good chunk of our lives on platforms designed to capture our attention isn’t the best way to spend our time.” | | 09:52 | Julie Inman Grant | “Tweets like, ‘Why didn’t you stick your head in the oven and finish the job?’ Just terrible abuse.” | | 10:54 | Julie Inman Grant | “How do we minimize the threat, surface for the future and become an anticipatory regulator so that technology change doesn’t hit us in the face.” | | 12:30 | Julie Inman Grant | “The research and the science isn’t totally fixed on this.... Probably it’s the tail wagging the dog in some ways.” | | 15:00 | Maddie Freeman | “One minute I’m getting 15, the next I’m getting 19.” (on AI age verification tools) | | 16:23 | Ethan Zuckerman via Harrison Haynes | “For the vast majority of people, social media has almost no effect on their overall happiness and mental health.” | | 18:52 | Maddie Freeman | “I struggled immensely ... I had severe depression ... I barely made it through. Like, I barely, barely, barely scraped by to go stay alive.” | | 21:27 | Maddie Freeman | “People would be posting, like, photos with the person who died, and it was like a competition of who was closest...” | | 23:58 | Maddie Freeman | “When you don’t have that anymore, your brain is like, whoa, what is going on?... Like, we have to numb it and distract it.” | | 25:05 | Maddie Freeman | “Another girl told me that it literally saved her life. ... If I didn’t do this, I don’t think I’d be here.” | | 27:47 | Ava Smithing | “Because even if a country decides to ban certain platforms, kids will always have access to some technology. So we need to figure out how to live with it in a way that works for us.” | | 28:14 | Harrison Haynes | “If Instagram isn’t on the top of the list ... then why isn’t that reflected in the way that you live?” | | 29:09 | Ava Smithing | “We didn’t get any say in that. But what we do next, well, I think that’s up to us.” |

Key Timestamps

• 00:41 – 04:39: Harrison Haynes’ backstory, recovery, and new tech-minimalist lifestyle
• 07:46 – 13:21: Julie Inman Grant and origins of Australia’s eSafety policy and ban
• 14:12 – 15:20: AI age verification challenges
• 16:00 – 16:34: Stories of social media’s positive impacts
• 17:36 – 26:18: Maddie Freeman: personal journey, community crisis, invention & impact of "NoSo November"
• 27:11 – 29:09: Reflections on policy vs. personal agency, closing thoughts

Themes & Tone

• First-person, reflective, and vulnerable; voices of young people foregrounded
• Complex, non-dogmatic balance between skepticism of industry solutions, hope in youth-led action, and wariness about political overreach
• Solutions-oriented: invites listeners to consider both macro (policy) and micro (personal choice) approaches

Takeaway

This episode is both a cautionary tale and a call to action: While governments debate sweeping bans and tech companies scramble to respond, youth like Ava, Harrison, and Maddie are modeling creative ways to reclaim digital agency from the inside out. The next chapter in the story of digital childhood, they argue, is one we must write for ourselves—with clear eyes, honest conversation, and courage to choose not just what connects us, but what makes us most human.