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- [00:00]
Afwa Hairsch
Wondery subscribers can binge seasons of Legacy early and ad free. Join Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
- [00:08]
Peter Frankopan
This episode contains depictions of violence and discusses sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised.
- [00:16]
Wonder
Wonder.
- [00:23]
Afwa Hairsch
Hello and welcome to the third episode in our series on Genghis Khan. We left you with Genghis and his army. Having swept into China China and sacked Beijing amid scenes of mass slaughter, he now rules over a vast empire and sits at the head of the most ferocious fighting force the world has ever seen.
- [00:45]
Peter Frankopan
But his thirst and need for conquest remains. Genghis is a man of vast ambition with a lot of mouths to feed, and his army needs to be kept busy. It's time to go west from Wandery and Goal Hanger. I'm Peter Frankopan.
- [01:08]
Afwa Hairsch
I'm Afwa Hairsch.
- [01:10]
Peter Frankopan
And this is Legacy, the show that tells the lives of the most extraordinary men and women ever to have lived and asks if they have the reputation that they deserve.
- [01:30]
Afwa Hairsch
This is CHINGGIS KHAN, Episode 3, Sackings and Slaughter.
- [01:43]
Wonder
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- [02:28]
Peter Frankopan
It's now 1216, and I mean the year rather than the time. And the Mongol army marches into the neighbouring territory of Karakitai, a once powerful state that has fallen into disarray. It's ripe for the taking, and take it is what Chingis does in today's terms.
- [02:47]
Afwa Hairsch
We're talking actually about places you're very familiar with in modern life, Peter the south of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan and western China. It divides the Mongol Empire from the Khwarezmian Empire.
- [03:00]
Peter Frankopan
It's the hashtag Silk Roads at their sort of height. There's these connectivities across Eurasia. This is going to be a short version, by the way. So in the seventh century, a new voice and a new force, the Khwareznian Empire, comes out of the hedgehogs out of the Arabian peninsula and creates a vast empire that fans out into North Africa and half of Spain and then through the Middle east up through what's now Iraq and Iran into Central Asia, controlled from the great powerful capital of Baghdad. There are these big, highly connected cultures. And, you know, they're connected in terms of their trade, in terms of their designs, through music. And they are all extremely wealthy. They're wealthy because they are populated by cities, and they're wealthy because they stimulate trade.
- [03:45]
Afwa Hairsch
But for now, the people are more or less willing to welcome the Mongols. They have felt oppressed as Muslims by their previous rulers. And the Mongols, as we've said before, are quite happy to let people of different faiths pursue their religion, so long as they abide by the Mongol system of laws and bureaucracy. And in that vein, a new administration is set up, headed by a Mongol governor, but operated by local officials.
- [04:11]
Peter Frankopan
So the Karakitai, who sit to the east of the Khwarezmians, is a place that's of great interest to the Khwarezmian ruler, Shah Muhammad ii, who's tried to think about whether he might be able to benefit from the fact that there's dislocations and shockwaves further to his east. So in 1218, a vast Mongol trade caravan arrives in Otra, a city today in Kazakhstan, but then in the north of the Khwarezmian empire. But things go badly wrong.
- [04:38]
Afwa Hairsch
These 450 traders on camels and horses, weighed down with goods, had bustled into the city, escorted by their entourage of around 100 Mongol soldiers. And these merchants are a really important part of the Mongol Empire. As nomads, the Mongols are not great producers of goods. What their genius is, is collating and facilitating trade between all of their vassal states and subject populations who do produce incredible grain, textiles, metals. And so the merchants are valued and in turn enjoy their protection on trade routes like this. But on this occasion, a guard of 100 Mongol soldiers is not enough. The governor of Otra has the merchants attacked and slaughtered, and only a single camel driver escapes, who hurries back east to alert Chinggis's army about this attack, which, as an attack on Mongol protected merchants, is an attack on the Mongols.
- [05:38]
Peter Frankopan
And it's one of those things we've seen before, which is that Genghis Khan is not a man to be messed with. It's quite an emphatic dismissal of the Mongols as being an important political force. But it's also a way of the governor of Otrar saying, we don't need or want goods coming from parts of the world that we haven't sanctioned. So it's an aggressive statement. Probably it's apocryphal both in terms of the single escapee of a camel driver coming back to alert Chinggis Khan. But it's not a bad thing if you're looking for an affront that gives you the excuse to do something back in return. And so the initial response is slightly restrained. He sends a mission headed by a Muslim with a message to say that if the people turned over the governor of Otra, they'll all be forgiven. But Shah Muhammad II's response is to behead the envoy and to send back the other Mongols with their heads shaved and beards singed, which is a mark of enormous disrespect. And then the reply from Chinggis Khan is to the point. You kill my men and my merchants and you take from them my property. Prepare for war, for I am coming against you with a host you cannot withstand.
- [06:51]
Afwa Hairsch
Winter 1219. The Altai Mountains. Through an icy mist, Djebe leads his division along a winding mountain road. For weeks they've been trudging through unforgiving landscapes, temperatures dropping as they climb higher. Now he shivers at a blast of freezing wind erupting from a snow covered canyon and tightens the yak pelt, shielding his horse from the bitter cold. Above them, the sky is turning dark. If a storm comes, their exposed position could mean death. Crossing the Altai Mountain range in winter is unthinkable. But that's exactly what Chinggis Khan is counting on. To surprise Shah Muhammad with a shock spring offensive. Driving his men on, they search for a high sided gorge in search of shelter. But as they near the position, a commander calls out to him. General, an injured horse is blocking the pass. Jebe follows to find the helpless animal crashing on the ground, one front leg broken, its powerful back legs kicking wildly. He crouches down, places a gentle hand between the horse's rolling eyes, murmurs soft words. Then with a quick practiced movement, he plunges a knife into its neck. Blood gushes out, creating sparkling vapor clouds. The nearest soldiers vie to fill their cups from the torrent of red, downing the steaming liquid before it has a chance to cool. Later, Jebe watches the wind suck at the walls of his hastily assembled tent. Few leaders would attempt such a perilous crossing. But then, few leaders have soldiers as resilient as the Mongol armies. Inspired by the spirit and determination of Chinggis Khan. Jebe knows that nothing, not even the deadly Altai wind, can stop them from fulfilling his command.
- [08:45]
Peter Frankopan
So it's quite punchy, Afra, I think in the worlds that we live in, the idea of being able to survive and drive through difficult terrains, in terrible weather, and to make do, you know, it comes as a surprise. But having said that, in the right circumstances, with the right motivations, all fear. It's amazing. What it is that humans are capable of doing and what the Mongols do is that they just keep on going. They're so persistent and so determined. Some of that, I suspect, is because they've got that eye on what the prizes are at the other end that concentrates the minds. Some of it also is that they all reckon that they'll all behave in the same way if they have to. You know, Chinggis Khan, for example, prides himself on the fact that he looks and behaves and lives like an ordinary soldier. I don't think that's absolutely true all the time. But, you know, there is an idea that they're all equal and that your commanding officer wouldn't send you to do something they wouldn't do themselves.
- [09:33]
Afwa Hairsch
I mean, there are reams of books on leadership written about this. How to inspire people, how to create a culture around you that people feel they're part of, something in which you have an equal stake. How to motivate people to dig this deep. I mean, Peter, you know me, I can't get through a recording session in the British winter without a steady supply of lattes. So trying to cross this mountain range with only the promise of steaming horse's blood as a hot drink is pretty close to my idea of hell. But somehow Genghis is able to motivate his leaders and his leaders to motivate their mental. The point is to do what his enemy would never anticipate possible and launch this raid. And he's ultimately able to do it.
- [10:18]
Peter Frankopan
I mean, I think that Genghis Khan is lucky that the world he's stepping into in Karakitai and then the Khwarazmian world are dislocated, troubled, and they're slumping. There are lots of reasons why they're in decline. Some of those are probably to do with environmental factors. Again, Katie Campbell at Cambridge is working on environmental signatures about how there is desertification that seems to be rising and of depopulation of cities like Autras specifically. In fact, place that she's excavating, that life is becoming harder, that creates softness. When you find an invading force because you're fighting for less, you're already demoralized, you're already feeling poorer, and your ability maybe to accommodate might be higher.
- [10:58]
Afwa Hairsch
And it works. Peter. The Shah is completely taken by surprise. When the Mongols arrive. He's before he Knows it got a second Mongol army to contend with after the initial arrival, as Gingis himself arrives in the summer of 1219 spoiling for a fight. And they know exactly what they're doing when they invade and conquer Khwarezmia.
- [11:22]
Peter Frankopan
Well, you know, the Shah is very unpopular. He's a egotist and a narcissist and, you know, scares people into doing what he wants. So he's got not a particularly powerful power base. The Mongols do their homework. Genghis Khan has put great store on intelligence gathering. So he doesn't just know the lay of the land, he also knows which of the troops notionally who serve the Shah might be biddable, to defect or to be bought to sit on the sidelines. And it means that when the Mongols arrive, they have a hierarchy of targets they're looking for to deal with quickly. And Otrar is top of that list. That place where the merchant had been killed is subjected to five month siege. And subjecting cities to a siege takes a lot of discipline. It's difficult to feed your armies, it's difficult to stay healthy, it's difficult to have enough food, water for yourselves, for your horses. So to do that as a statement of intent that the Mongols are not going to go away.
- [12:12]
Afwa Hairsch
And this is also the evolution of Genghis Khan, because remember from the last episode how much the Mongols struggled to lay siege to cities in the past. But they've learned from their mistakes. They've also recruited Chinese engineers and siege experts, so they can really nail this practice of defeating a city. Once the city is taken, it is utterly flattened and it will never be rebuilt. The governor, who you'll remember, started all this by attacking the caravan and killing the merchants, is captured and taken alive. And legend has it that he had molten silver poured into his eyes and mouth. Do you know, this is one of many times really delving into the story of Genghis Khan where I've thought about Game of Thrones and one of the things I disliked about Game of Thrones was that it all just seemed such gratuitous, unrealistic levels of brutality and violence. And I have to say, reading the historical account of what happened in this era has made me realize how much of it was probably inspired by real life events.
- [13:15]
Peter Frankopan
Actually, in no bad culture, the skull of an enemy was highly valued. And plating that with silver or metal was a way of showing the high status of the person you knocked out or killed. And you know, that has a long tradition going back thousands of years, what the Mongols do in the case of the governor is that they don't just have his head separated from his shoulders and turned into a drinking vessel, which they do. But they announce to everybody that this was fitting punishment for a man whose disgraceful behaviour, barbarous acts and previous cruelties deserved the condemnation of all. So it's a statement and a warning, of course, to anybody else who stands in the way. But it's also a way, I think, of exploiting the fact that people who are unpopular, who collect taxes, who live in palaces, who are parts of the elites, can be cut down to size. And that's a message that's quite compelling for the vast majority who don't live like that. So then Chingis dispatches forces to the city of Bukhara in what's now Uzbekistan, and he destroys it and its population. He leads his 40,000 strong army in a forced march across the Kizilkum Desert, having been told by his spies that there are enough watering holes en route. And coming to the city from the west takes the Shah completely by surprise.
- [14:33]
Afwa Hairsch
The desert crossing brings them right to the gates of the city of Bukhara in February 1220. And then there is a 12 day siege. First, prisoners are deployed to shield the Mongol army as they attack the city walls. Then heavy catapults are used to hammer the walls until there's a breach. And then once they are inside, Chinggis decides that Bukhara is going to serve as an example to any other city or kingdom that defies him. The Mongols drive every single person out of the city. The women are raped, young men are rounded up and used as human shields. At the next siege, which is essentially a delayed death sentence, the rest are sent back to Mongolia as slaves, but not before they've been tortured to reveal any hidden riches, because plunder is just as important a part of the conquest as killing and subduing the population. Some 30,000 people are killed in this city, and once it has been emptied, they set fire to it. So that when an Arab historian visits a century later, evidence of the Mongol destruction is still all that time later plain to see.
- [15:42]
Peter Frankopan
And that memory of destruction is one that is captured in all the sources written around this time elsewhere in the Middle East. One historian writing about the expansion into Khwarezm just simply says, the Mongols came, they sapped, they burnt, they killed, they plundered, and they left. Another one says, I wish I'd never been born, so I wouldn't have had to live through such traumas. At least the Muslim Antichrist will only destroy his Enemies, he went on. The Mongols, on the other hand, they spared no one. They killed women, men, children, ripped open the bodies of the pregnant and slaughtered the unborn. Next stop, with Samarkand, the Shah's beautiful capital. And news of Bokhara's dreadful fate has reached the city. They know what's coming. March 1220 Samarkand, Khwarezmia under a cruel white sun, Chinggis Khan looks up at the giant fortifications of Samarkand, rising like sheer cliffs before him. A gleaming hilltop city surrounded by landscaped parks and lakes. For three days, the Mongols have laid siege to the Shah's capital. But its massive defensive forces and impregnable walls have held them at bay. He knew he needed to change tactics. Summoning his generals, he'd ordered prisoners from the sacked city of Pokhara to be dressed as Mongols soldiers and deployed to the battlefield. A regiment of human shields acting as bait. It's a trick his army has mastered to devastating effect. He gives the order for the prisoners to stage their supposed attack. He now watches as an unbroken flow of the Shah's army pours out of the gates to take on what they think are Mongol forces. As the terrified prisoners stumble towards towards them, their lines are quickly shattered by a cavalry charge. The more they run away, the more enemy soldiers give chase. Chinggis Khan looks on with relish as they rush down from the ramparts in pursuit of the assumed invaders. When he estimates that around half the city's defenders have left, he orders the ambush to begin. Regiments of highly trained Mongol cavalry that have been lying in wait spring into action as they divide and encircle the Shah's confused soldiers. Mounted archers wreak devastation. The result is complete annihilation. When the rout is over, Chinggis Khan takes in the carnage. Once again, he's tipped the balance of power. Without enough defenders, Samarkand will soon fall. And if the Shah isn't already dead, he will finally understand his error of provoking the wrath of the man capable of sweeping aside entire empires.
- [18:59]
Afwa Hairsch
And in fact, the Shah, who, if anyone, really should take responsibility for this terrible tragedy befalling his people is not dead. He manages to escape, and as usual, it's the civilians left behind who pay the price. It's estimated that out of the population of 100,000 people in Samarkand at the time, only around a quarter survived the attack by the Mongols. The men were taken as prisoners. And one of the things that Genghis Khan's army did is they would capture men and use them as cannon fodder. In future sieges, literally hurling them at the battlements or even using them to fill ditches so that they would form a kind of moat they could climb over. And anyone who's youthful and that could range from artisans to actors, anything that was needed in their cities would be sent back to Mongolia. And others were enslaved women forced to become concubines. And this brutal assault was repeated over and over again. Peter from Samarkand, they went on to conquer city after city.
- [20:04]
Peter Frankopan
Yeah. And they go on to Guranj and then Balkh in what's Afghanistan, Merv in what's Turkmenistan, which looks like it's more or less completely dismantled, which is pretty special given the lack of explosives and gunpowder. But the Mongols were absolutely terrifying. And perhaps the single worst example, almost dramatic example, was in Nishapur where the city is put to siege. And then over the course of 10 days, it's completely destroyed. The son in law of Chinggis Khan, who's married to one of Chinggis daughters, gets killed by an arrow. And as a result, Chingis daughter makes the Mongols vow to kill every man, woman and child in the city as vengeance. And so not only were all the people killed in the city their skulls then stacked up into pyramids that could be seen from miles away, but also cats and dogs were beheaded too. And the death toll is absolutely astonishing and enormous.
- [21:00]
Afwa Hairsch
Well, we heard earlier about the Mongol philosophy of pursuing your enemy to the end. And there's really no better example of this than what happens to the Shah. So he didn't stay to courageously suffer with his people. He fled away from the Mongol onslaught and he's pursued relentlessly across his empire. His forces are destroyed blow by blow, even water, which is supposedly the Mongol's tactical weakness. They're not used to fighting wars on rivers or seas. They still managed to destroy the Shah's fleet by floating fire ships downriver. His rear guard makes one last stand to try and protect the Shah, buying him time to escape. But they too are wiped out. The Shah still gets away, arrows raining down on his boat, fleeing to an island on the Caspian Sea. But then he's trapped. It's a dead end. And he eventually dies in 12:21, reduced from his incredible opulence and riches to a state of rags and poverty. But even then, the Mongols are not done with him. Years later, they discover his grave, dig up the bones and burn them.
- [22:09]
Peter Frankopan
That's old school.
- [22:10]
Afwa Hairsch
That's how you pursue your enemy to the end.
- [22:13]
Peter Frankopan
When Shah Muhammad dies, he's succeeded by his son Jalaluddin. Who's much more able as a commander and really understands what he's up against. But he gets pursued by Chinggis Khan into Afghanistan, who lays waste into everything in front of him. And eventually there's a showdown with the Mongol army near the town of Parwan, where fighting lasts for two days. And then the Mongols are forced to withdraw. But those who are left behind are tortured and killed. Chinggis then is furious at the setback, and he goes after Jalal al Din catches him in September 1221 on the banks of the Indus. And Jalal is forced backwards towards the river. And although the Mongols have a numerical superiority and they grind down Jalal's army, he escapes by jumping into the river. And it's perhaps not surprising that when those stories get shared within the Mongol world and beyond it, that people take Chinggis Khan extremely seriously. That sense of fear and awe. So in this particular case, Jalal Al Ad Din gets off the game board, he gets out into India as far away as he can, and the Mongols exhaust themselves by chasing him. And then they leave him to his own devices. But they still keep an eye on him. There are attempts to assassinate Jalal al Din, so they know he's someone that needs to be brought to justice.
- [23:28]
Afwa Hairsch
Genghis Khan had actually reluctantly admired Jadal Al Din. Compared to his father, the Shah, who was always running away, he showed much more courage in being willing to confront and fight the Mongols. And that kind of thinking is becoming more important to him. How does a son follow his father? How will his sons follow his example? Will his sons be as brave and loyal as his generals have been? And at this point, Genghis Khan is approaching his 60s. Succession is becoming a more and more prominent question on his mind. His army may be meritocratic, but he needs to be succeeded by one of his sons. And which of them will rule? July 1221. Western Mongolia. Genghis Khan inhales deeply and waits for his anger to subside. Glaring at his advisor, he growls, those ungrateful rogues will get what's coming to them. He considers the vast territories annexed during the three years of his Khwarezmian campaign. The enemies killed, the women subjugated and workers enslaved. Yet from the recent conquest of Guranj, he's received none of the plundered riches owed to him by right. If it were an errant general or vassal ruler insulted him, he might understand. But to be so heinously slighted by his own children feels like an arrow to the heart. He speaks his words slowly. Loyalty is the foundation of my empire. Everything depends upon it. If my sons do not honour that, I will cut them down without hesitation. His advisor looks looks alarmed. But in truth, this is just another frustration in the ongoing dispute over his succession. It's clear Jochi and Chagatai cannot work together. Chinggis had hoped naming Ogedai as heir to his empire would settle matters. But now he wonders if the three of them might be plotting against him. Stories about the sadistic cruelty and unabated slaughter inflicted on the inhabitants of Karanche only deepen his uneasiness needs. His generals wouldn't dare cause him such worry. The advisor raises a bony finger. Your sons are wild, but fierce in battle. Think of them as young falcons in need of training. Harness their energy, but keep it contained. The analogy resonates with Genghis Khan. His love of falconry has been a constant throughout his life. The challenge of mastering and controlling such wild creatures. He feels something shift inside of him. He'll handle his sons using the same methodology. Rein them in, tame them and use them for his ends. And if a falcon fails to obey him, he will devour it like the other dead birds that adorn his table.
- [26:45]
Peter Frankopan
Yeah, it's a lot easier dealing with other people's children than your own. So Chinggis Khan may have preferred Jalal Din to be his own child. I mean, he had complicated relationships with his sons. From what we can tell, he has four sons with his first wife, Berte. He doesn't particularly trust either. The two eldest, so far as we can tell. Jochi, the child you'll remember Berta was pregnant with when she was kidnapped. And Chagati and these two dislike each other immensely. Chagati reminds people that Jochi is not really Chinggis's son. That's what we're told by slightly poisonous, tricky Persian sources. In the meantime, there's son number three, Ogede, who's being lined up as a potential successor. There's a lot of discussion about who might take over, but this is not how things work in the Mongol world. It's not a sort of nomination by the father, and then everyone follows orders. It's about trying to work out who's going to be practical and take power. Chingis starts to be told that Jochi might be planning a couple. And there's lots of suspicions that are flying around in 1226, 1227, including that when Jochi dies, in fact, just before Genghis Khan does, there are rumors that he'd been poisoned, perhaps a victim of his father's assassin. So it's a complicated story with his son and it's a complicated story. Afra with his wife and wives.
- [28:03]
Afwa Hairsch
These are not his only children. He married Borte, as we know, and had his sons with her, but he had a second wife, Kulan. And Kulan is actually one of a total of 23 official wives, plus 16 regular concubines and a harem of about 500. He is also supposed to have had a 17 piece female orchestra, so definitely has a lot of women in his life. And nobody actually knows how many children he fathered. But the mystery of exactly how many children he had has helped fuel the rumor. That is definitely one of the few things I knew about Ginga's Khan before I really knew anything, which is that he had allegedly populated a quarter of the planet, or that something I read More recently, 1 in 10 men is descended from him. I mean, there's no evidence to back that up, is there, Peter?
- [28:56]
Peter Frankopan
No, but those wives, that's political management, right? They are all high status women of peoples who've been conquered by the Mongols. And the best way to show that you respect the people who conquered is to take a high status marriage. So in today's world, one of the things that's moving fastest in the world of history are genetic materials and genetic evidence to be able to trace ancestries. And I think that that's putting to rest the ideas that there's mass impregnation, involuntary and potentially also otherwise by these conquering armies. But you know, the expansion of the Mongols across large parts of Eurasia does change demographics. No question about that. That murder on large scale and the ways in which new settlements come into being is really important. His wives and his children are an important part of it, including his daughters.
- [29:41]
Afwa Hairsch
After, yes, he had a good relationship with some of his daughters, including a favorite, Alakai, one of five official daughters, although again, we don't know how many he had in total. And Alakai was sent off to marry a distant prince, as his daughters generally were. But as she went off to her marriage, her father said, you should be determined to become one of my feet. When I am going on an expedition, you should be my helper. When I am galloping, you should be my steed. You have to remember, life is short, but fame is everlasting. No friend is better than your own wise heart. No ferocious enemy is worse than a resentful and wicked heart. It's quite a touching piece of father daughter advice, and I think it's as good a time as any to just think for a moment about his attitude towards women. I mean, it's really complex and it's really difficult for us because we're so loaded with our own views and our own expectations. And we've also heard about the mass sexual violence that happened on Mongol campaigns. And Genghis Khan personally sexually assaulted or kidnapped women and took them as his wives. So that is that. I mean, there's no question that the Mongols were guilty of what would now be totally taken as war crimes, crimes against humanity, violations of the laws of war, the Geneva Conventions. But that's not to say that women in Mongol society were completely oppressed and violated. They actually had far greater freedoms than many women in European cultures at the time. And visitors from Europe were often shocked at the ways in which Mongol women moved fluently through society. They were allowed in the same spaces as men. They had great roles in the managing of society. It wasn't the same kind of strict division of the domestic and public realm that European societies often employed according to gender. And rape within Mongol, peacetime society was prohibited and was a crime. So there were protections for women. And there was also a little more, from what I've read, sexual autonomy in the sense that when a couple were married, the woman was expected to make the first move. There were ideas about women having control of their sexuality in their bodies. And that, in a way, for me, makes it actually harder to get my head around how violent the Mongols were towards women they captured, that they were capable of seeing women as humans and people who deserve that kind of protection. But that did not apply to women who were subjugated or captured in war.
- [32:07]
Peter Frankopan
But mobile societies tend to be more egalitarian in some ways. But women typically have quite high status in nomadic societies across Eurasia for lots of different reasons, partly because of the sharing of the jobs, partly because of the constant having to move around, at least in some cases. Hierarchies work in slightly different ways than in urban and settled communities. And a lot of the threads of Mongol societies in its expansion are to do with high level elite relationships. We mentioned Genghis himself. But even after Genghis father dies, his mother is married off to a neighbouring clan leader, because there's a way that you can make alliances by showing respect. So they also do help create the stitching of the tapestry of a Mongol world that is getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And by the end of 1221, Genghis is really at the peak of his power, isn't he?
- [32:59]
Afwa Hairsch
The Khwarezmian empire has been crushed. This is his most Decisive and emphatic victory. The reputation of his armies now proceeds them, which means that people will now often surrender rather than suffer the fate they know awaits if they try to fight. The Mongols are now undisputably global players. Genghis Khan rules an empire that stretches from the Caspian to the Pacific, from the Caucasus to Korea, from the Yellow river to Siberia. They are truly a world force.
- [33:32]
Peter Frankopan
It's fair to say that the Mongols under Genghis Khan and his successors don't see the world in terms of geographies and of maps. It's just that there's more territory that should be subjected to us. You know, that we are the global rulers. So keeping on expanding is not just about being slighted or trying to force people to submission. So, for example, in the 1220s, tribes who try to run for the Mongols, like Kipchaks or humans and others, are just brought to heel and driven into the ground to show that if you defy the Mongols and the Mongol deities, Tengri in particular, then there are consequences.
- [34:10]
Afwa Hairsch
And the fact that word of the Mongols has started to spread far beyond their actual reach, has started to reach Western Europe, where mixed reports are appearing of this kind of satanic horde of devils who sweep before them. Everything in their midst really just shows the impression that they're making. People in Europe, for example, don't actually know who they are or where they've come from, but they know they are a force to be taken seriously. And a delegation from Venice makes contact with the Mongols in 1221, looking to make a trading treaty. And that speaks to the incredible accumulation of goods and trade that now passes through Mongol lands. And it brings incredible new opportunities through crafts and arts, through technology, mathematics, money, the use of paper money, which is really developed under Genghis Khan and spread to levels hitherto unseen. But it also brings problems, Peter, because, well, you've tried this fermented mare's milk that is popular in Mongolia, but the foreign wine that is now reaching the Mongols is far more powerful than the alcohol they're used to. And it starts to, as is often the case, create challenges. With alcohol consumption and drunkenness, for the.
- [35:27]
Peter Frankopan
First time, there's an awareness that this is now a single, connected empire, and that therefore, what you need to make it function is exchange of information, infrastructure, investments, the speed of ability of communication and of knowledge. And the sheer size of this state is itself a real challenge and a real problem. I mean, it's easy to talk about staging posts and horses delivering messages from one side to the other. But it all takes time. It all requires supervision. The infrastructure to run empires is complicated because it's after all, run by people. And people make mistakes because sometimes they're stupid, sometimes they don't know what they're doing. So you can blame alcohol if you like. But more, the point is that that constant incorporation of more and more and more people, the idea of the keshe or the group around the Mongol leader getting bigger and bigger and bigger, the governability of it starts to look like it's quite heavy. So one of the things that Chingis does to counter that is to create a permanent capital at Karakorum, which, although it's sometimes described as being a sort of tented city, is a sort of fixed location. It's a kind of nerve center of this vast empire.
- [36:32]
Afwa Hairsch
One of the ways in which communication develops once this capital is established is through a postal service which is really advanced for its time, started by Chinggis Khan, where fresh horses are established across the empire with riders carrying special tablets to identify them, covering up to 250 miles a day, really enabling the crucial flow of information and intelligence. Because to run an administrative space of this size, you need some kind of effective communication system. You've got commissioners spread from the Caspian to the Pacific coast who are overseeing tax collection, censuses, having to manage security, keep a wary eye on rebellious populations, raise troops. This is a massive enterprise and it requires a sophisticated level of organization and communication.
- [37:20]
Peter Frankopan
This world that the Mongols create of interconnectivity, peace, stability, has been given a label of the Pax Mongolica, which means the peace that was administered by the Mongols. And it's interesting, I think, to me, that you have these two flip sides of how you can see the Mongols either as rampaging and destructive or pacific, engendering tolerance, happiness and expansion and cooperation. And that's a point of real discussion and debate amongst historians about how true that really is. Isn't that just glossing up the best bits of how wonderful this is for the few who benefit? What does the reality look like and go on really talk about a sort of overarching foreign or domestic policy that even can be described like that? Can we take literally and seriously statements that you could ride from one side of the empire to the other with a gold plate on your head and you'd be safe? There is lots of nuance underneath all of this, but having said that, I think what we've tried to do so far is to explain that there is a structure behind the mechanics of what gets built between really 1200 and the mid-1220s. But by this time, the Mongols have not finished. Despite the fact that they've got into Central Asia and into Iran, they still want to keep on going. They've got their eye on the Caucasus.
- [38:37]
Afwa Hairsch
In 1221, Subedai, perhaps the greatest of all Genghis Khan's generals, rampages into Georgia, defeating the armored Georgian cavalry, who were supposedly the best in Europe at the time, and mortally wounds the Georgian king. That's a big deal. And spreads terror through Europe about what the Mongols are capable of and how far their ambitions extend. Meanwhile, Jebe, who we met earlier, another loyal general, is leading an army up the Dnieper towards Kiev, where a Russian army is beaten. But all of a sudden, they turn back and head for home, cutting across the Russian steppes and hammering the tribes who inhabit them. So in three years from 1221 to 1224, Jebe and Subedai, the master strategist, have ridden 5500 miles, won seven major battles, sacked dozens of towns and cities, and introduced a terrified Europe to the reality of Mongol conquest for the first time. And it's not an exaggeration to say that Europe is terrified. Ross Sudan, the sister of the dead Georgian king writes a letter to the Pope. A savage people, hellish of aspect, as voracious as wolves in their hunger for spoils, as they are brave as lions, have invaded my country.
- [40:00]
Peter Frankopan
And that's something you find in lots of sources on the fringes of Europe at this time. So you find the Mongols being described as being countless in numbers, like locusts, monks in Novgorod writing that we don't know where they came from or where they disappeared to. Only God knows, because he sent them to punish us for our sins. It's as though wild beasts have been released to devour the flesh of the strong and to drink the blood of the nobles. That sense of fear of who's coming next has been built on the reality of what it is that the Mongols do. The news of this terror spreads across Europe, and there's a record of it reaching as far away as Scotland. And the biggest fear for all is that the Mongol hordes will come back and that no one will be able to stop them. That's next time on Legacy.
- [41:01]
Afwa Hairsch
Follow Legacy on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge seasons early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey@wondery.com survey from Wondery and goal hanger. This is the third episode in our series on Genghis Khan.
- [41:27]
Peter Frankopan
A quick note about our dialogue we can't know everything that was said or done behind closed doors, particularly when we go far back in history. But our scenes are written using using the best available sources. So even if a scene or conversation has been recreated for dramatic effect, it is still based on biographical research.
- [41:44]
Afwa Hairsch
We've used many sources for this series including Chinggis Khan, the Man who Conquered the world by Frank McLint and Charles Halperin, Russia and the Golden Horde. Legacy is hosted by me, Efwer Hersh.
- [41:56]
Peter Frankopan
And me, Peter Frankenburn.
- [41:58]
Afwa Hairsch
Scene writing is by Jack McKay.
- [42:00]
Peter Frankopan
For Goal Hanger. Our series producers are Jane Morgan and Anoushka Lewis. Robin Scott Elliott is Associate producer. Our production managers are Izzy Reed and Alex Hack Roberts. The executive producers are Tony Pastor and Jack Davenport.
- [42:16]
Afwa Hairsch
This series of Legacy is sound engineered and designed by Will Farmer.
- [42:20]
Peter Frankopan
Music supervision is Scott Velasquez for Fritz and Sink.
- [42:23]
Afwa Hairsch
Our producer for Wondery is Emanuela Quinorte Francis and our managing producer is Rachel Sibley.
- [42:29]
Peter Frankopan
Executive producers for Wondery are Estelle Doyle, Chris Bourne, Morgan Jones and Marshall Louis.