Legacy Podcast: "Joan of Arc | The Birth of a Saint | Episode 4"

Released on June 18, 2025, by Wondery, "Legacy" delves into the lives of extraordinary historical figures, assessing whether their reputations align with their true legacies. In the final episode of their series on Joan of Arc, hosts Afra Hersch and Peter Frankopan explore Joan's tumultuous final days, her enduring legacy, and her eventual sainthood.

1. Introduction

The episode opens with Peter Frankopan setting the stage for Joan of Arc's impending execution. As he states, “We left Joan facing a terrible fate. After a long and arduous trial, she has confessed in terror at the sight of what awaits her death by fire” (00:16). This confession, though coerced, only prolongs her ordeal by a few days before she steadfastly reaffirms her divine mission.

2. Joan's Final Days and Execution

Afra Hersch narrates Joan's unwavering commitment to her divine mission despite overwhelming adversity. “[She] renounces her confession, returns to the claim that had seen her take France and the Hundred Years War by storm” (00:38). Joan's refusal to recant her visions and divine instructions seals her destiny, leaving her no escape from execution.

Peter Frankopan elaborates on the grim reality of her execution: “What happens next is about as grim as you can imagine... it was just a case of life in the Middle Ages where this is where the punishment meted up for heresy” (05:37). The detailed recounting of her being bound to the scaffold and the orchestrated execution underscores the brutality of her fate.

3. Public Sentiment and Execution Process

Despite the harshness of her execution, Afra highlights moments of collective sorrow and regret among the spectators: “There are plenty who witness it who will later claim that there was great sorrow at her burning” (06:13). The executioner's regret over the prolonged burning time reflects a subconscious recognition of Joan's extraordinary character.

Peter adds, “The control over her own body is something that she's denied repeatedly” (07:06), emphasizing the invasive measures taken to erase any remnants of Joan, fearing her potential to become a martyr.

4. Aftermath and Legacy

Afra discusses the English authorities' futile attempts to suppress Joan's legacy: “Even having denounced her as a heretic... the English still worry that people are going to turn her into a martyr” (08:07). This fear underscores Joan's undeniable impact and the threat her legacy posed to English authority.

Peter points out Joan's unique standing: “Joan is by far the most famous person who's burned at the stake... something about Joan and what she's being told and the way that she's lived her life that makes her stand out” (08:41). Unlike countless others, Joan's successful military campaigns and unwavering belief set her apart in European history.

5. Political Aftermath and French Supremacy

The hosts trace the political shifts following Joan's death. Peter notes, “The pendulum swings in favour of France... Joan has promised that she can see is one that gets delivered” (14:50). The eventual French victories and the establishment of the Kingdom of France vindicate Joan's mission, cementing her role in history as a pivotal figure in ending the Hundred Years' War.

6. Posthumous Recognition and Sainthood

Afra details the long journey to Joan's sainthood: “It's only until 1450... that Charles even talks about her in public” (16:20). Decades after her death, Joan's incorrupt heart and posthumous miracles fueled her veneration. By 1909, after persistent petitions and recognitions of her bravery and faith, Joan was officially beatified, and later canonized as a saint.

7. Cultural and Modern Impact

Peter and Afra explore Joan's enduring cultural significance across centuries. Peter remarks, “She’s been so plastic, so malleable, adopted by so many different kinds of causes” (32:47). Her image transcends time, inspiring artists, feminists, and various movements worldwide.

Afra adds, “She's the perfect figure to evolve with history... especially young women, especially people who are non binary or flouting conventions about gender or class” (32:47). Joan's ability to symbolize both strength and vulnerability makes her a versatile icon adaptable to contemporary narratives.

8. Reflections and Personal Insights

In their concluding reflections, Afra and Peter draw parallels between Joan's life and modern societal challenges. Afra muses, “What does that look like if it appeared today and how could we be more receptive to it than her contemporaries were then?” (38:26), highlighting the timeless struggle between individual conviction and societal acceptance.

Peter responds with admiration for Joan's character: “I think there's something extra special about Joan and something about her character... her strength of conviction is something that I've taken very seriously from this series” (40:38). This acknowledgment underscores the profound personal impact Joan's story has on the hosts.

9. Notable Quotes

• Peter Frankopan (00:16): “We left Joan facing a terrible fate. After a long and arduous trial, she has confessed in terror at the sight of what awaits her death by fire.”

• Afra Hersch (08:07): “Joan's unique legacy among heretical burnings shows that even after being condemned, her spirit and message couldn't be extinguished.”

• Peter Frankopan (32:47): “She’s been so plastic, so malleable, adopted by so many different kinds of causes... her story is both timeless and continually relevant.”

• Afra Hersch (38:26): “What does that look like if it appeared today and how could we be more receptive to it than her contemporaries were then?”

• Peter Frankopan (42:07): “Brave, devout, and inspirational.”

• Afra Hersch (42:17): “Understood the assignment.”

10. Conclusion

As the series on Joan of Arc concludes, Afra and Peter emphasize the enduring relevance of Joan's life and legacy. Joan of Arc not only altered the course of French history but continues to inspire modern audiences through her unparalleled bravery, unwavering faith, and the complex interplay between individual agency and institutional power. Her story serves as a beacon for personal integrity and the pursuit of one's convictions against all odds.

Notable Production Credits:

• Hosts: Afra Hersch and Peter Frankopan
• Voice of Joan of Arc: Jacqueline Valsez
• Producers: Jane Morgan, Anoushka Lewis
• Sound Design & Engineering: Will Farmer
• Music Supervision: Scott Velasquez

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