Podcast Summary: Legacy – St George | This is England: The Flag of St George | Episode 1

Podcast: Legacy
Hosts: Afua Hirsch (C), Peter Frankopan (B)
Episode: St George | This is England - The Flag Of St George | 1
Date: October 28, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of Legacy sets out to disentangle the complex history and symbolism of St. George, the patron saint of England, and his red-and-white flag. Hosts Afua Hirsch and Peter Frankopan explore the historical figure behind the legend, the transformation of his image and meaning through time, and how the St. George's flag has become a powerful—and often contested—symbol of Englishness in the modern era. The discussion weaves together ancient history, myth-making, evolving national identity, and the flag’s resurgence in contemporary England.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Cultural Awareness (00:57 - 03:42)

• Public Knowledge Gap: Majority of people in England are unaware of when St. George’s Day is; only 40% identified the correct date in a 2021 survey ([01:06]).
  • Afua: "A quarter of English people don't even know that St. George is their patron saint." ([01:31])
• International Comparison: Other national days (St. Patrick’s, Bastille Day, Fourth of July) have far more recognition—even globally—than St. George’s Day.

2. The Symbol’s Modern Resurgence (05:13 - 06:31)

• DIY Patriotism: 2025 has seen a noticeable reappearance of England flags across London and the country, described in media as the “Raising the Colors” campaign.
  • Afua: "I can't think of another time in my lifetime, except maybe when England reached the finals of the Euros in the 90s, that there was this semi final... a resurgence in the England flag, accompanied by a very heated debate about what that flag means and who it includes." ([05:43]–[06:10])
• The flag is a trigger for debates about identity and inclusivity.

3. Who Was St. George? (07:27 - 12:53)

• Origin Story: St. George was not English—he was likely born in Cappadocia (modern Turkey), with a Greek father and Palestinian mother. His burial is linked with Lydda, now in Israel ([07:27]–[08:18]).
  • Afua: "The patron saint of Englishness was not English. He was born in a part of the world that is now often constructed as antithetical to English." ([07:27])
• Martyrdom: Early Christian soldier in the Roman army, martyred for refusing to renounce his faith under Emperor Diocletian.
  • Peter: "He, in the Christian tradition, is not just a martyr, he's a megalomartist... so one of the most important of all martyrs because he comes to a sticky end and also because there were so many attempts to martyr him." ([11:28])
• Tortures and Miracles: Multiple tortures, alleged resurrections, and ultimately beheading—icons of extreme endurance and faith.

4. Saints, Myth, and Cultural Adaptation (12:53 - 20:58)

• The Role of Saints: Saints serve more as moral exemplars than historical figures; their stories are parables ([12:53]).
• Assimilation of Paganism: Christian traditions, including that of St. George, often co-opt older pagan themes, such as fertility, cycles of renewal, and mythic motifs ([17:00]).
• Significance of the Name “George”: etymology connects to the earth (“tiller of soil”) and also to “holy fighter” ([18:28]–[19:47]).

5. The Dragon Myth Arrives (20:58 - 26:54)

• Late Addition: The famous dragon-slaying story emerges centuries after St. George’s supposed death, around 950-1000 CE.
  • Peter: "The first set of dragons that we have associated are not until the early Middle Ages, maybe about the year 950, 1000, something like that." ([22:30])
• Dragons and English Visual Culture: Sources suggest that the Romans and Vikings introduced the concept of dragons as visual emblems to Britain, which previously celebrated body art over banners ([23:33]–[25:16]).

6. Popularity in England: From Cult to National Symbol (26:54 - 33:50)

• The Crusades and English Identity: The association of St. George with military virtue is expanded in the Crusades; soldiers wore his cross as a symbol of holy war ([29:56]–[32:08]).
  • Peter: "When Pope Urban II calls for the First Crusade... he tells the knights that they should sew the Cross of St. George into their tunics so that they can be seen to wear the cross on their sleeve." ([29:56]–[32:08])
• St. George Becomes “English”: Apparitions, battlecries, and the Order of the Garter (founded by Edward III) cement him into royal and chivalric Englishness ([33:50]).
  • Peter: "He insists that the sashes that the Knights of the Garter... is made from Mongol silk... St. George becomes something that's connected to the Royal crown here." ([33:53])

7. Elevation and Diminishment: Feast to Reformation (35:03 - 39:06)

• Medieval Peak: By 1415, St. George’s Day is a “major double feast” equal to Christmas ([35:03]).
  • Afua: "St. George's Day... equal to Christmas in its solemnity, requiring abstinence from manual labor and mandatory church attendance." ([35:03])
• Protestant Reformation: Rejection of saints, miracles, and relics leads to his decline. The iconography is altered; miracles are cast as “strange lies” ([36:18]–[37:32]).

8. Romantic Retelling and Inclusion in Britishness (39:06 - 42:01)

• Renaissance Reinterpretation: Elizabethan and later writers recast St. George as a mythic native son; details about his Middle Eastern roots are omitted ([39:06]).
  • Afua: "The main event now is the storytelling and what that means..." ([39:06])
• Union and Imperial Identity: Act of Union (1707) incorporates St. George’s flag into the Union Jack, shifting his role from strictly English to part of a pan-British or imperial ideal ([40:19]–[41:16]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Public Amnesia
  • Afua: "A survey from 2021 found that only 40% of people in England know when St. George's Day is." ([01:06])
• On National Days
  • Afua: "All these other national days have kind of penetrated global culture, but St. George's Day, I wouldn't even say it's penetrated English culture." ([02:56])
• On St. George’s Origins
  • Afua: "The patron saint of Englishness was not English. He was born in a part of the world that is now often constructed as antithetical to English." ([07:27])
• On Dragon Myth-making
  • Peter: "Dragons start to be imported to England by the Vikings... all of these kind of images start to transform ideas about art, about the mythological, about the afterlife." ([25:16])
• On The Cross as Symbol
  • Peter: "He tells the knights that they should sew the Cross of St. George into their tunics so that they can be seen to wear the cross on their sleeve." ([31:00])
• On Feast Elevation
  • Afua: "The province of Canterbury even elevates St. George's Day to a major double feast in 1415, making it equal to Christmas in its solemnity." ([35:03])
• On Myth vs. History
  • Peter: "Saints don't necessarily have to play the same role as historical figures... these are stories that are told as parables and morality stories." ([12:53])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:06] – National ignorance about St. George’s Day
• [05:13] – The flag’s visible resurgence in London, 2025
• [07:27] – St. George’s Middle Eastern background
• [11:28] – The concept of “megalomartyr” in Christian tradition
• [17:00] – Incorporation of pagan themes into Christianity
• [22:30] – The dragon myth: its late arrival and meaning
• [25:16] – Influence of Romans and Vikings; dragon iconography
• [29:56] – St. George, the Crusades, and the English flag
• [33:53] – Edward III, the Order of the Garter, royal symbolism
• [35:03] – St. George’s Day as a major medieval holiday
• [36:18] – The Reformation and St. George’s decline
• [39:06] – Literary/national re-imaginings of St. George
• [40:19] – The Act of Union and British identity

Tone & Style

The conversation is candid and witty, full of historical anecdotes and banter. Afua brings a contemporary perspective, frequently drawing lines between history and current debates about identity and inclusion. Peter offers deep historical context, bringing in knowledge of ancient empires, theology, and etymology. Both hosts are skeptical of myth but appreciate its significance.

Conclusion

This episode maps the journey of St. George from early Christian martyr of the Middle East, through mythic dragon slayer, to contested symbol of Englishness and identity. The story reveals how national symbols are often constructed, borrowed, and reinterpreted, shaped as much by politics and storytelling as by history. The discussion ends with a teaser: in the next episode, the legacy of St. George and his iconography will be considered in the context of British expansion and how they influenced conceptions of self, both at home and abroad.