Legacy Podcast: "Stalin | The Stain of Stalin | 4" Summary

Release Date: May 21, 2025

In the fourth installment of the "Stalin" series on Legacy, hosted by Afua Hirsch and Peter Frankopan from Wondery, the hosts delve deep into the tyrannical reign of Joseph Stalin. This episode, aptly titled "The Stain of Stalin," explores Stalin's oppressive rule, his complex legacy, and the lasting impact on both the Soviet Union and the modern world.

1. Introduction to Stalin’s Rule

Afua Hirsch opens the episode by highlighting how Stalin was once hailed as the hero of the Great Patriotic War, the mastermind behind the Soviet victory over Nazi Germany. However, as the post-war era unfolded, Stalin's oppressive regime became increasingly tyrannical.

Peter Frankopan sets the stage by describing the USSR under Stalin as a formidable superpower:

“Soviet control now extends well across Eastern and Central Europe. China has also become an obedient ally. And the Soviets have the bomb. The USSR is a superpower with Stalin the Superman, at its head.”
(00:22)

2. Stalin’s Paranoia and Oppression

As the Soviet Union emerged victorious from World War II, Stalin's paranoia intensified. Despite the people's hope for prosperity, Stalin maintained a grip of fear for over two decades.

Frankopan discusses the internal struggles within the USSR:

“In 1946, a combination of terrible drought plus catastrophic state management lead to a disastrous famine that claims hundreds of thousands of lives… Stalin had admired Hitler. And from 1949, Soviet Jews begin to be arrested, even those right at the top.”
(03:00)

Hirsch paints a grim picture of life under Stalin:

“Everyone close to Stalin knows that they're being bugged, knows that they or their wives or even their children could be arrested, deported, even shot.”
(04:12)

3. The Atmosphere of Fear and Control

The constant fear under Stalin's rule led to an environment of distrust and betrayal. Individuals resorted to ingratiating themselves with Stalin or betraying others to secure their survival.

Frankopan elaborates on the oppressive environment:

“The Kremlin runs to Stalin's clock… He's always presented as being taller than Lenin… it’s a world of mirrors and of uncertainty and instability and chaos.”
(05:08)

Hirsch describes the horrific social dynamics:

“Dinner parties… you might get plastered with vodka while Stalin remains sober, making jokes about having you shot… people are so drunk they wet themselves, yet declining might cost them their lives.”
(06:05)

4. Stalin’s Declining Health and Power Struggles

The episode shifts focus to the days leading up to Stalin's death in 1953. Tensions within his inner circle were palpable as his health deteriorated.

A dramatized account illustrates the chaos during Stalin's final hours:

“Pavel Lozgachev presses his cheek against the dacha's cold parquet floor… Stalin is helpless and incapacitated… He recalls the years of terror… The Great Dictator now reduced to a pathetic spectacle.”
(09:41)

Frankopan reflects on the uncertainty surrounding Stalin's demise:

“The autopsy report disappears… It's the sheer terror of not knowing what on earth to write… the numbers of real plots against Stalin… look to me precisely zero.”
(14:06)

5. The Aftermath of Stalin’s Death

Stalin's death led to a momentary yet profound upheaval within the Soviet Union. Despite his atrocities, the population mourned deeply, highlighting the extent of his cult of personality.

Hirsch emphasizes the paradoxical grief:

“Paulina Molotov, who was exiled because she was Jewish, collapses sobbing… his daughter Svetlana, who also suffered, is there grieving.”
(13:19)

Frankopan discusses the immediate consequences:

“Thousands pour into Moscow for the funeral… Stalin is embalmed and put alongside Lenin in the Lenin Stalin mausoleum in Red Square.”
(14:06)

6. Khrushchev’s De-Nazification and Its Impact

Post-Stalin, Nikita Khrushchev emerged as the new leader, embarking on a controversial initiative to denounce Stalin's crimes, fundamentally altering the Soviet narrative.

Frankopan explains Khrushchev’s bold move:

“In 1956, Khrushchev denounces Stalin at the Party Congress… It completely transforms China as well, affecting Mao’s policies.”
(16:45)

Hirsch highlights the risks and theatrical nature of Khrushchev’s strategy:

“Khrushchev is a gambler and a showman… Stalin being unceremoniously removed from the mausoleum and reburied in the Kremlin.”
(18:18)

7. Stalin’s Enduring Legacy and Modern-Day Reflections

The episode explores how Stalin's legacy persists, especially in contemporary Russia, where his image and influence continue to resurface.

Frankopan draws parallels to modern Russia:

“Stalin’s resurgence in Russia… Putin’s rehabilitation of Stalin and the rewriting of history textbooks reflect an ongoing struggle with Stalin’s legacy.”
(38:19)

Hirsch laments the erosion of historical memory:

“We are living through an era of forgetting 20th-century history… We are in danger of repeating so many of these atrocities.”
(39:41)

8. Psychological Portrait and Final Reflections

The hosts delve into Stalin's psyche, pondering whether his actions were driven solely by power or if there were deeper psychological needs.

Hirsch hypothesizes on Stalin’s desires:

“Maybe Stalin secretly yearned for someone to rein him in… he never found that… people capitulated to fear and intimidation.”
(24:42)

Frankopan summarizes the psychological and systemic factors:

“Stalin projected an all-encompassing fear… Only a Stalin could consolidate an empire on that scale and keep it under an iron fist.”
(32:18)

9. The Final Verdict

As the episode concludes, both hosts reflect on Stalin's unparalleled brutality and the enduring scars of his dictatorship.

Hirsch delivers a powerful summation:

“History's greatest monster… with over 20 million of his own people dying at his hands… he is in a league of his own.”
(40:17)

Frankopan adds:

“The end justifies the means… the monstrosity of Stalin is very troubling when you see people trying to justify what he did.”
(40:37)

Conclusion

In "The Stain of Stalin," Afua Hirsch and Peter Frankopan provide a comprehensive and harrowing exploration of Joseph Stalin's rule. Through vivid storytelling, the episode underscores the profound human suffering inflicted under Stalin's regime and examines the complex legacy that continues to influence contemporary geopolitics. The hosts emphasize the importance of remembering and understanding this dark chapter to prevent history from repeating itself.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Peter Frankopan (00:22): “Soviet control now extends well across Eastern and Central Europe. China has also become an obedient ally. And the Soviets have the bomb. The USSR is a superpower with Stalin the Superman, at its head.”

• Afua Hirsch (04:12): “Everyone close to Stalin knows that they're being bugged, knows that they or their wives or even their children could be arrested, deported, even shot.”

• Peter Frankopan (05:08): “The Kremlin runs to Stalin's clock… it’s a world of mirrors and of uncertainty and instability and chaos.”

• Afua Hirsch (06:05): “Dinner parties… you might get plastered with vodka while Stalin remains sober… people are so drunk they wet themselves, yet declining might cost them their lives.”

• Peter Frankopan (14:06): “The autopsy report disappears… It’s the sheer terror of not knowing what on earth to write.”

• Afua Hirsch (18:18): “Khrushchev is a gambler and a showman… Stalin being unceremoniously removed from the mausoleum and reburied in the Kremlin.”

• Afua Hirsch (40:17): “History's greatest monster… with over 20 million of his own people dying at his hands… he is in a league of his own.”

Final Thoughts:

Afua Hirsch firmly characterizes Stalin as "history's greatest monster," unequivocally condemning his legacy of mass murder and tyranny. The episode serves as a stark reminder of the depths of human cruelty and the importance of historical memory in shaping a just and informed future.