Legacy Podcast: "Women and Healing | The Original Witch Hunt | 2"

Hosts: Afua Hirsch & Peter Frankopan
Date: February 3, 2026
Main Theme:
An exploration of the European witch hunts of the 16th and 17th centuries, focusing on the persecution of women healers and midwives, the societal and cultural contexts fueling these hunts, and their enduring legacy on women's healthcare roles.

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the vast history of witch hunts across Europe—far wider and more severe than the famous Salem trials—and examines how women’s roles as healers, midwives, and custodians of medical lore became weaponized against them. The hosts discuss the roots of these panics, focusing on King James VI/I, the North Berwick witch trials, and cultural artefacts like Shakespeare's Macbeth, before tracing the movement’s impact right up to the modern legacy of women’s reproductive healthcare.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Widespread Persecution of Women as 'Witches'

• European Witch Hunts vs. Salem (00:32–02:12)
  • The European witch hunts dwarfed those of Salem in scale and brutality but are less well-known.
  • "The stuff that goes on in Europe is absolutely epic...some of it...is a bit connected to climate and what's happening in the late 1500s and 1600s." — Peter [00:52]
• King James VI and the North Berwick Trials (02:22–08:30)
  • King James VI’s wedding journey marred by disasters sparked paranoia, further fueled by tales of German witch trials.
  • "By 1588, the killing was so extreme that in two villages in Germany, only one female inhabitant was left alive." — Afua [03:38]
  • Upon his return, James initiated mass witch trials in Scotland, notably torturing women like Agnes Sampson until confession.
  • "She was fastened to the wall of her cell by a bridle, an iron instrument with four sharp prongs...until eventually she confessed to 53 indictments." — Afua [07:37]

Witch Hunts as Societal and Political Phenomenon

• Paranoia, Conspiracy, and Cultural Resonance (08:30–12:54)
  • James wrote Daemonologie (1597), justifying his actions with supposed scholarly rigor, cementing witchcraft as a public horror.
  • Link between societal insecurity (climate disasters, poor harvests) and increased scapegoating of women.
  • "Who's to blame for these bad weather conditions? So it must be witches, must be people who are deliberately able to convene with the skies..." — Peter [11:17]
• Scale and Gendered Targeting (12:54–15:17)
  • Estimated hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, executed as "witches"—85% women, often elderly, marginalized, or midwives.
  • Literature of the time, especially Shakespeare’s Macbeth, absorbed and amplified these fears.
  • “If you're watching Macbeth and you hear the lines...you are really scared that there are witches in your midst who could be stealing your newborn babies and delivering them to Satan." — Afua [13:49]

Midwifery, Healing, and the Weaponization of Women's Knowledge

• The Demonization of Midwives (16:10–21:57)
  • Midwives, entrusted with birth, were regarded with suspicion due to their access to women and infants.
  • “The power that midwives have in this pre-medicalised era makes this one of the fields in which women's power and agency are most visible.” — Afua [17:29]
  • The Malleus Maleficarum, a notorious witch-hunting manual, obsessively targeted midwives for presumed access to infants for satanic rites.
  • Quote from Thomas Middleton’s The Witch: “Take this unbaptized brat, boil it well, preserve the fat...” [19:35]
• Superstition and Social Roots (21:57–25:15)
  • Persistent superstitions influenced views on midwives—changelings, amniotic membranes as omens—often used to rationalize birth defects or child mortality.
  • Discussion of how mystique turned blame: "The midwife's power and access and her ability to understand things that other people don't understand singles her out in this era." — Afua [23:35]

Societal Explanations & Blame

• Witches as Scapegoats for Complex Problems (25:15–29:11)
  • The havoc blamed on witches was all-encompassing, as summarized from The Anatomy of Melancholy (1620s): "They hurt and infect men and beasts... They steal young children out of cradles..."
  • "Like many strange conspiracy theories, there's always a grain of truth... women do know how to manage reproductive health...so the idea that a woman could have power over that is actually real and threatening." — Afua [26:29]
• Enduring Suspicion and Institutionalization (29:11–30:47)
  • Even rational professionals (like famed French midwife Louise Bourgeois) perpetuated superstitions, warning against keeping the caul.
  • Midwives’ oaths banned “any manner of witchcraft”—showing how deeply ingrained suspicion was, persisting into the 18th century.

Modern Legacy and Reflections

• Impact on Reproductive Healthcare Today (30:47–35:48)
  • The persecution and stigmatisation of women healers contributed to the medicalization of birth, a domain now predominantly led by men.
  • Persistent racial disparities in maternal care: Black, Black British, and Asian or Asian British babies in the UK face over 50% higher perinatal mortality.
  • Rise in demand for doulas and traditional women-led practices as women question mainstream (male-led) medicine.
  • “Women are now beginning to say, if we had a blank slate and we could design birth experiences that actually serve us… is this what we’d design?” — Afua [33:41]
• Etymology and Hierarchy
  • “Doula” derives from ancient Greek for “female slave”—reflecting underlying attitudes about caregiving and expertise. [34:18]
• European Focus and Future Episodes
  • Recognition that the European lens was imposed globally through colonization; next episode will examine non-European healing traditions and legacies. [35:48]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The idea that the sovereign of the King of Scotland… thinks that he could be the administer of justice by rounding people up and accusing them for things that you can't really prove. It's going to be tricky.” — Peter [05:58]
• “Who knows how to heal, knows how to destroy.” — Afua paraphrasing James VI [09:19]
• “It's a really volatile mix. And women are, in the most violent way imaginable, bearing the brunt.” — Afua [14:56]
• “It sounds a bit like QAnon… Democrats may be responsible for lots of things, but I’m pretty sure they don’t do this on a regular basis of child sacrifice.” — Peter [20:38]
• “Childbirth brings you right back to your primordial elements as a mammal… midwives are the people who specialize in guiding you through that.” — Afua [21:57]
• “It would be nice if there was a simple explanation for it. You know, this person is the reason why we’re suffering… I think we always have a tendency to look for an easier explanation, or worse, a scapegoat. And that’s what midwives become.” — Afua [24:43]
• “After about 1600, [witchcraft persecutions] are almost double in Catholic parts of Europe than they are in Protestant ones.” — Peter [28:07]
• “The fact that these statements are showing up right up into the early modern period just show how deeply ingrained this suspicion of midwives has become in European culture.” — Afua [30:19]
• “We are going to look at [non-European perspectives] in detail, Peter, on the next episode of Legacy.” — Afua [35:48]

Timestamps of Important Segments

• 00:32–02:22: Setting the context: Why are European witch hunts less well known than Salem?
• 02:22–08:30: King James VI’s voyage, paranoia, and the North Berwick witch trials.
• 08:30–12:54: Daemonologie, climate context, and links to wider European social trauma.
• 12:54–15:17: Scale of persecution; influence in popular culture and Shakespeare.
• 16:10–21:57: The targeting and lower social status of midwives; how healing was weaponized.
• 21:57–25:15: Superstitions around childbirth; changelings; the midwife as scapegoat.
• 25:15–29:11: Literary sources; witchcraft as an explanation for a spectrum of anxieties and tragedies.
• 29:11–30:47: Persistence of superstition in professionalized midwifery.
• 30:47–35:48: Modern medicalization; healthcare disparities; reclaiming traditional women’s roles.

Conclusion

This episode paints a vivid picture of how fear, patriarchy, and insecurity combined in early modern Europe to unleash brutal, systematic violence against women healers—particularly midwives—and how those echoes still shape the realities and perceptions of women’s healthcare today. Ending with a call to consider the global legacy of these histories, the hosts set the stage for an exploration beyond Europe in the next episode.