Fed Chair Defies Trump as Prosecution Backfires

Summary

---

Legal AF by MeidasTouch

Episode: Fed Chair Defies Trump as Prosecution Backfires

Release Date: March 20, 2026
Hosts: Michael Popok, Ben Meiselas, Karen Friedman Agnifilo

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Michael Popok breaks down the latest legal and political developments surrounding Federal Reserve Chair Jay Powell, who stands firm against pressure from Donald Trump and his allies. The conversation centers on Trump's failed attempt to push Powell out before his chairmanship's end, the politically motivated criminal investigation into Powell, and how these power plays tie into broader attempts to control the Fed and economic policy. The episode provides incisive analysis on law, politics, and institutional power struggles.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Jay Powell’s Defiance Against Trump’s Pressure

[01:23 - 07:32]

• Background: Trump and his allies have been publicly attacking and investigating Fed Chair Jay Powell, aiming to force his resignation ahead of his term's expiration in May 2026.
• Powell’s Response: In a rare show of open defiance, Powell announced that he will remain as Chair Pro Tempore if his replacement is not confirmed by the Senate. He further asserted he would not leave while under investigation, demanding transparency and closure before considering stepping down.
  • Quote:
    "If my successor is not confirmed by the end of my term as chair, I would serve as chair pro, temporary, until he is confirmed. That is what the law calls for... I have no intention of leaving the board until the investigation is well and truly over with transparency and finality." – Jay Powell ([04:44])
• Political Context: Trump’s push for cheap money via interest rate cuts aligns with his attempts to buoy a faltering economy, despite resistance from both non-Trump and some Trump-appointed Fed members.

2. The Criminal Investigation and Court Battles

[05:37 - 08:36]

• The Investigation: Trump allies, led by U.S. attorney Jeanine Pirro, opened a criminal probe into Powell for cost overruns during a much-needed Federal Reserve building renovation—a routine government project exaggerated for political gain.
• Legal Pushback: Chief Judge Jeb Boasberg quashed related subpoenas, declaring a lack of evidence or legal merit, labeling the case a "bad faith prosecution."
• Pirro's Retort: Despite Boasberg’s ruling, Pirro vowed to appeal, framing the court’s decision as impeding justice and claiming Powell was being placed “above the law.”
  • Quote:
    "Jerome Powell today is now bathed in immunity, preventing my office from investigating the Federal Reserve... This outrageous decision will be appealed by the United States Department of Justice." – Jeanine Pirro ([07:32])

3. The Real Stakes: Control Over the Federal Reserve

[11:04 - 13:37]

• Institutional Dynamics: Popok provides a "teachable moment," laying out the structure of the Federal Reserve Board and why control of Board seats directly impacts national economic policy, particularly through the Federal Open Markets Committee (FOMC).
• Majority Matters: Powell and other non-Trump-appointed governors currently hold a Board majority, ensuring independence from executive overreach. If Trump can flip even one seat, he could also influence regional Fed bank appointments and, by extension, the FOMC’s policy decisions.
  • Quote:
    "If Jay Powell were to say, 'I've had it, I throw in the towel,' Donald Trump gets the majority of the Board of Governors... and now he's got control of the Federal Open Markets Committee. So it's not just about one vote." – Michael Popok ([11:04])
• Powell’s Endgame: By vowing to stay until all investigations conclude and successors are confirmed, Powell obstructs Trump’s ambitions for swift and politically motivated changes within the Fed.

4. Broader Political Miscalculations by Trump

[08:36 - 09:51]

• Pattern Recognition: Popok situates Trump’s miscalculation regarding Powell alongside strategic national blunders, including foreign policy and economic missteps (e.g., Iranian attacks on Qatari natural gas infrastructure).

• Public Accountability: Powell’s composed handling in a press conference, even when pressed on construction cost overruns and accusations, showcased the limits of Trump’s pressure tactics.

  • Memorable Moment:
    "That's the guy they've been effing with— that's the guy they thought more mean tweets is going to make him resign. Really?" – Michael Popok ([11:04])

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jay Powell’s Defiance:
  "I have no intention of leaving the board until the investigation is well and truly over with transparency and finality." ([04:44])

• Judge Boasberg on the Investigation:
  Dismissed subpoenas, stating "no criminal case of any merit at all, no evidence whatsoever" ([05:37], paraphrased by Popok).

• Jeanine Pirro’s Outrage:
  "No one, folks, is above the law. And this outrageous decision will be appealed..." ([07:32])

• Popok on the Stakes:
  "If he gets one vote on the Board of Governors, he really picks up the majority over on the Open Markets Committee to set interest rates and that's what he wants." ([11:04])

---

Important Timestamps

• [01:23] – Introduction to current Federal Reserve crisis
• [04:44] – Jay Powell public statement: will not resign
• [05:37] – Explanation of false criminal charges and court proceedings
• [07:32] – Jeanine Pirro’s reaction to dismissal of investigation
• [09:51] – Press conference excerpts, debunking of cost overrun allegations
• [11:04] – Popok’s breakdown of Fed structure and the importance of Board majority

---

Summary

This episode dives deep into the latest confrontation between the Federal Reserve and the Trump administration, unpacking both the legal machinations and high-stakes efforts to influence the nation’s monetary policy. Through detailed explanation and direct quotes, Michael Popok illustrates how Jay Powell’s principled stance, judicial independence, and institutional safeguards are resisting partisan overreach. The interplay of law, institutional process, and raw political ambition makes this episode especially relevant and insightful for listeners following American democracy’s most urgent tests.

---

Transcript

[Amazon Music Announcer]

From unsolved mysteries to unexplained phenomena, from comedy gold to relationship fails, Amazon Music's got the most ad free top podcasts included with prime. Because the only thing that should interrupt your listening is, well, nothing. Download the Amazon Music app today.

[Mackenzie]

My name is Mackenzie and I started a GoFundMe for the adoptive mother of a non verbal autistic child. The mother had lost her job because she wasn't able to find adequate care for this autistic child. So she really needed some help with living expenses, paying some back bills. So I launched a GoFundMe to help support them during this crisis. And we raised about $10,000 within just a couple of months. I think that the surprising thing was by telling a clear story and just like really being very clear about what we, we had some really generous donations from people who were really moved by the situation that this family was struggling with.

[GoFundMe Announcer]

GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising platform, trusted by over 200 million people. Start your GoFundMe today at gofundme.com that's gofundme.com gofundme.com this podcast is supported by GoFundMe.

[Michael Popak]

After 16 months of bashing the Federal Reserve Chair Jay Powell, all it's done is strengthen his resolve. And in a press conference yesterday to announce no change in interest rates to bail out Trump's failed economy, Jay Powell went one step further. He told Donald Trump not only is he not leaving in May of 2026, when his federal Reserve chairmanship is over, but that he will stay in that position as the Chairperson Pro Tempor if Donald Trump's pick to replace him is not confirmed by the Senate. And it's not looking good between now and May 15th for Kevin Warsh to be confirmed by the Senate because Donald Trump has opened up a criminal investigation against Jay Powell, the Federal Reserve led by Jeanine Pirro, his political ally in the U.S. attorney's office in D.C. she's not letting up. That's making Jay Powell get his Irish up, as they like, as Joe Biden liked to say, and says he's not going anywhere until the investigation is completely over and he's effectively been cleared. Therefore, Thom Tillis in the Senate, who's leaving the Senate but has a vote on the Senate Banking Committee, he says he won't vote for Donald Trump's replacement as chair of the Federal Reserve in Kevin Warsh unless the Federal Reserve chairman is cleared of his criminal investigation. Oh, what a tangled web Donald Trump has woven. You're Here on the Midas Touch Network in Legal af, I'm Michael Popak. Let's get to the new reporting. In the last 24 hours, we knew that the Federal Reserve was going to be meeting yesterday and making their decision about whether interest rates were going to be cut or not. Donald Trump wants them cut because that's cheap money that helps bail out his failed economic policies by making money really cheap. And therefore people invest with really cheap money, except it leads to hyperinflation. The Federal Reserve is makes the decision about ratings and rates based on what's called the Federal Open Markets Committee. It's comprised of 12 people, seven members of the Board of Governors, of which Jay Powell is the chair, and five rotating members who are presidents of the regional Federal Reserve banks. And out of that 12 people, you know how many people wanted to cut interest rates? One, Even two Trumpers, Waller and Bowman said we're not cutting rates. So there goes rate cuts. And the market has reacted. The fact the market doesn't think there's going to be a rate cut again in 2026, and there may be a rate increase in 2027. So take that. But in that same press conference, a defiant Jay Powell, somebody I've never seen before. The fact that I'm putting defiant and Jay Powell in the same sentence is amazing. He is a very calm, quiet, moderate person, genius when it comes to economic policy. But he took to the podium and he had this to say, fighting back against Donald Trump. Play the clip.

[Amazon Music Announcer]

What happens if there's no Federal Reserve

[Michael Popak]

Chairman confirmed on May 15?

[Amazon Music Announcer]

Would you stay on? So if my successor is not confirmed by the end of my term as chair, I would serve as chair pro, temporary, until he is confirmed. That is what the law calls for. That's what we've done on several occasions, including involving me, and it's what we're going to do in this situation. And while I'm at it, on the question whether I will leave while the investigation is ongoing, I have no intention of leaving the board until the investigation is well and truly over with transparency and finality. And I would refer you to the statement that was in the Fed's brief that you all have seen, and I won't have anything more for you on that. On the question of whether I will then continue to serve as a governor after my term ends and after the investigation is over, I have not made that decision yet. And I will make that decision based on what I think is best for the institution and for the people we serve.

[Michael Popak]

Now, that's not the first time we've seen Jay Powell say that I'm not going anywhere, that I've got to be well, that the investigation has to be well and truly over, that it has to be concluded with full transparency. In other words, bring it. What is the whole criminal investigation about? Well, the Federal Reserve is remodeling two out of its four buildings that make up the Federal Reserve compound in Washington. They haven't been remodeled in 100 years, since they were built. You're talking about asbestos. You're talking about old elevators, old wiring, old H Vacs, you know, heating and air conditioning. And there's some cost overruns. I mean, after Covid, the supply chain for construction materials has gone through the roof. Donald Trump knows that, right? He doubled the price of his own ballroom. But they decided to open up a criminal investigation of Jay Powell related to the cost overruns, as if he's lining his own pockets with money. You saw Jay Powell, he's lining his own pockets with money from the construction overruns. That's the crime that's so ludicrous that Jeb Boasberg, chief judge of all grand jury proceedings in the Federal Court in D.C. just dismissed the subpoenas. The grand jury subpoenas were quashed by Jeb Boasberg, who declared there is no criminal case of any merit at all, no evidence whatsoever to justify the prosecutors going after Jay Powell. In other words, it's a bad faith prosecution. And of course, that led to Jeanine Pirro basically getting all angry on behalf of Donald Trump and saying she's going to appeal and she's going to go after Jay Powell. And somebody asked her why? Well, what do you think that means for the confirmation of Jay Powell successor, Kevin Warsh? You know, how are you going to get him? How are you going to get that guy confirmed to replace. If you're still running your criminal investigation, Play the clip.

[Jeanine Pirro]

Jerome Powell today is now bathed in immunity, preventing my office from investigating the Federal Reserve. This is wrong, and it is without legal authority. And so this decision today by Judge Boasberg runs directly afoul of our highest court's admonition that courts and judges must not and cannot saddle grand juries with many trials and preliminary showings that impede a prosecutor's investigation and thus frustrate the public's interest in the fair and expeditious administration of justice. No one, folks, is above the law. And this outrageous decision will be appealed by the United States Department of Justice.

[Michael Popak]

Donald Trump miscalculated that. We start a lot of hot Takes videos with Donald Trump miscalculated whether it's Iran. You know, we just had reporting today that Iran took out 17% of our ally Qatar and its natural gas pipeline. It's going to be three to five years before they get that back online. So 17% of natural gas just sort of disappeared in terms of volume, meaning the. The prices of natural gas are going to go way up over the next three to five years, which are going to impact you and me in our pocketbook. Miscalculation. Miscalculation about the strain of Hormuz and how much oil could move through it once Iran decided to shut it down. And miscalculations about Jay Powell. They thought they were going to embarrass their way into having Jay Powell resign before May 15th of 2026, just in about a month and a half, which is when his chairmanship is over, and then embarrass him to resign from the entire Federal reserve board in 2028. But all you have to do is watch Jay Powell school Donald Trump about the cost overrun and turned the tables on him when Trump tried to embarrass him in real time in a press conference to know that Jay Powell wasn't going anywhere. Play the clip.

[Federal Reserve Official]

It looks like it's about 3.1 billion. One up a little bit or a lot. So the 2.7 is now 3.1.

[Amazon Music Announcer]

I'm not aware of that.

[Federal Reserve Official]

Yeah, it just came out.

[Amazon Music Announcer]

I haven't heard that from anybody. The Fed just came out. Our notes had it about 3.1 as well. 3.2. This came from us?

[Federal Reserve Official]

Yes. I don't know who does that.

[Amazon Music Announcer]

Are you. Including the Martin renovation, you just added capital. You just said you just added in a third building is what that is. That's a third building.

[Federal Reserve Official]

It's a building that's being built.

[Amazon Music Announcer]

No, it's been. It was built five years ago. We finished Martin five years.

[Federal Reserve Official]

It's part of the overall work. So. So we're going to take a look. We're going to see what's happening and it's got a long way. Do you expect any more additional crossover runs?

[Amazon Music Announcer]

Don't expect them. We're. We're ready for them. But we, we have a little bit of a reserve that we may use. But no, we don't expect to be finished in 2027. We're well along, as you can see.

[Federal Reserve Official]

Nice to take these off every once in a while when we're not under too much danger.

[Michael Popak]

That's the guy they've been effing with that's the guy they thought more mean tweets is going to make him resign. Really? Now why is there this fight? Let's do a teachable moment now about the Federal Reserve. It's comprised of seven members as currently constituted. Four of those members were appointed by non Trump people, Biden, Obama and the like. The four non Trumpers which are the majority of the Federal Reserve are Powell, his term expires in 2028, chairmanship in 2026, but his full term in 2028, Jefferson in 2036, a second one in 2032 and Cook in 2038. Not going anywhere. The three non, the three Trumpers, Waller, his term expires in 2030, Bowman in 2034. And then the third one which is expiring now should be Kevin Warsh. And that one goes. And that one has to be replaced. Now the reason why the majority control of that board is so important is because the majority picks who are the other members of the Federal Open Markets Committee, which meets monthly, quarterly to talk about interest rates. That's a 12 member committee. Seven of them are the Board of Governors I just described. Five come from the Federal Reserve's regional banks and their presidencies. That's picked by the majority on the Federal Reserve's Board of Governors. So if you get control, which Donald Trump wants to do, if Jay Powell were to say I've had it, I throw in the towel. Donald Trump gets the majority of the, of the Board of Governors. He wipes out it, picks five new, five new members from the presidents, he fires all the regional presidents, and now he's got control of the Federal Open Markets Committee. So it's not just about one vote. If he gets one vote on the Board of Governors, he really picks up the majority over on the Open Markets Committee to set interest rates and that's what he wants. So that's what we're watching. So the fact that Jay Powell is the is has decided he needs to stand and fight until the very end, the bitter end, and he's not going anywhere. And then I love the extra little twist, which is, hey, if you can't get your guy confirmed for the chairmanship, Kevin Warsh, I'm happy to stay on as the chair until you do. That's happened three or four times in our history during confirmation processes. So we're going to continue to follow it all. You're on the Midas Touch Network, your independent channel of choice, legal AF, YouTube needs your support and love as well. Come over there. Hit the free subscribe button so until my next report, I'm Michael Popak. Can't get your fill of Legal af? Me neither. That's why we formed the Legal AF Substack. Every time we mention something in a hot take, whether it's a court filing or a oral argument, come over to the substack. You'll find the court filing and the oral argument there, including a daily roundup that I do called Wait for It Morning af. What else? All the other contributors from Legal AO are there as well. We got some new reporting, we got interviews, we got ad free versions of the podcast and hot takes where Legal AF on Substack. Come over now to free subscribe. To realize the future America needs. We understand what's needed from us to face each threat head on. We've earned our place in the fight for our nation's future. We are Marines. We were made for this

[GoFundMe Announcer]

this episode is brought to you by Nespresso Introducing Vertuo up, the latest in a long line of innovation from Nespresso. It's innovation you can touch, sense and taste in every single cup. With a three second start, easy open lever and dedicated brew over ice button, it's even easier to enjoy your coffee your way. Sip for yourself. Shop Vertuo up [e-mail] High interest debt

[SoFi Announcer]

can be a real vibe killer. Credit cards, personal loans and more can make you feel uncomfortable even in the sanctuary of your own home. Well, what if you knew that SoFi can help you leverage your home's equity to feel more at ease? It's called a SOFI Home Equity Loan and it could consolidate your debt at a typically lower interest rate than existing debt with lower monthly payments and all while keeping your existing mortgage rate. View your [e-mail] payoffdebt today. Mortgages originated by SoFi bank and a member FDIC and MLS number 696891. Terms and conditions apply. Equal Housing Lender.