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- [00:01]
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- [01:04]
Michael Popak
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Michael Popak
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Michael Popak
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Ben
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- [01:27]
Michael Popak
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- [01:29]
Ben
Learn more@joinmochi.com Mochi members have access to licensed physicians and nutrit Results may vary. A lot to discuss on this weekend's Legal af. And most importantly, Michael Popak is back to break it down. We're going to talk about how Pam Bondi and Howard Lutnick are headed for depositions before the House Oversight Committee. How that came about. And now Pam Bondi is demanding that local state bar organizations at state and local levels should not have authority to conduct ethics investigations and or discipline DOJ lawyers. We'll talk about that. New 302 FBI interviews and reports have surfaced right around the time that Pam Bondi was subpoenaed. Coincidence? I think not. The Department of Justice dismissed their appeal in the loser of a case they filed against law firms trying to shut down these law firms, essentially ban them from dealing with the government. If Trump didn't like the lawyers in the firms. And this was used by Donald Trump to also try to extract these mega settlements from other firms. The law firms that fought back, as you know, one and one big the Trump regime appealed it. The Trump regime dismissed the appeal. But then the Trump regime said, oopsies, we didn't mean to dismiss the appeal because Donald told us he wants to do a frivolous appeal. So can we withdraw the dismissal? Such a, such a lame and loser doj. We'll talk about that. Also, amid all of the atrocious conduct and the deadly conduct of ICE and Border Patrol Gestapo, Kristi Noem finally fired by the Trump regime, although she's been moved to now become the special envoy for the Shields of America. It's the made up, bizarre thing that Trump thinks this is some like Apprentice reality show dystopian version where we're all non consensual extras in this, you know, essentially World War Three cauldron that he's created. Mark Wayne Mullen has been moved in to replace Christine, but she hasn't been fired because of all of the bad conduct and illegal conduct that she's engaged in. It was how she answered a question about an ad campaign that Donald Trump didn't like. We'll talk about that and more on this episode of Legal af. And I would be remiss if not mentioning at the top of this as these legal AFs also need to be contextualized in place and time in history. America is still in an unlawful war against Iran. Earlier on Saturday, Donald Trump said Iran has surrendered to all of the nations in the Middle east, which is absolutely false. Then Donald Trump held a meeting with all these South American, Central American countries. Not all of them showed where Donald Trump bragged about how our missiles can kill people in their living rooms and how lethal we are. And then Pete Hegseth talked about how lethal we are. These are very, very, very bizarre times. The reality is is that very dangerous times. The reality is is that Iran is getting hit hard by the Trump regime. Let's be very clear. Also crimes against humanity being committed by the Trump regime and hitting Iran hard. And we know about the situation where they blew up an elementary school killing 150 children and teachers at this school. But also Iran striking back and Iran's been hitting the neighbors. And we know the Arab nations where there are American interests and we know that the price of gas is quickly approaching $100 a barrel. We know the price of diesel is now surging. And this is just going to add to increased inflation, increased costs, big and for big affordability issues. And why I also mention this as I bring in Michael Popak is, you know, I've called this Operation Epstein Fury or the Jeffrey Epstein War because, you know, a lot of this is to being done. Our soldiers are being sent to die. Our treasury is being looted because Donald Trump Also wants to distract from the fact that he's all over these Epstein files. And I don't even think that's a controversial thing to say. I think everybody gets it. Most importantly. Popak, it's great to see you back. Everybody missed you and let's get the show on the road.
- [06:01]
Michael Popak
Yeah, thanks, Ben. Let, let me try to piece it together from my perspective but what I've said is that Donald Trump is like there is. He's like the reverse of Lyndon Johnson. He's exporting chaos to the globe in order to distract attention from his failures on domestic policy that we all see and feel every day. Lyndon Johnson had the opposite problem. His Great Society was amazing. He was one of the best domestic policy presidents we've ever had. If you ever in are, if you're. You are ever in or near Austin, Texas, it's one of the best presidential libraries and you. It's hard to believe he was only in for one term. Trump's got the opposite problem. He's terrible. The economy is swirling down the drain. Fifteen months in, you can't blame Biden any longer. Why would you blame Biden? He was creating jobs at a clip of 500,000 jobs or more a month. Donald Trump has almost created zero jobs. I'm not making this up. We just had a revision in job creation for December and January lowering it by another 80,000. We just had a miss of 160,000 jobs. Economists thought it was going to be a terrible jobs report and only show 60,000 jobs created in the month of February. It was a. Under. It was a loss of 90,000 jobs. They missed it by 150,000. And that is now because all of the tariff and taxing, all, all of the wars that he started, the chaos he's exported in order to distract from a failed administration, a scandal scarred administration. I mean it's not just the Epstein. I mean the stink, the indelible stink and stench of the Epstein scandal which Donald Trump according to insiders thought would, would people would be exhausted by already and be fatigued by. We wouldn't have to cover it any longer. Why are we still talking about it? I don't know. Because a president is somehow connected to a child sex trafficking ring. In what world, in what movie or reality is that not still a story as that same president works overtime and uses incredible amount of resources in his administration to cover up the scandal and cover up the COVID up of the scandal. And so he's got that. And then every other cabinet member has some other either Epstein problem like the Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick, or a sex scandal of their own. Now, I don't know if Kristi Noem came down because she spent $220 million to do these biopics of her at Mount Rushmore on horseback talking about deporting human beings, or blame Donald Trump for the expenditure. When she was pressed every time she sits in that seat and she got grilled by not just Republicans, but by Democrats. The best line of the hearing or the aftermath of the hearing was Senator Kennedy of Louisiana, a MAGA Republican, who said she's about as dead as fried chicken because she lied to Congress about that contract. I don't know if it's that contract or it's the footsie she was allegedly playing with Corey Lewandowski, who's been accused of being a sexual predator himself in the past and is in the Homeland Security somehow after the Trump administration, didn't want him anywhere near the administration in the first term because of allegations like this. And they were playing footsing on a Boeing 737 jet that Homeland Security was using and a bedroom. I mean, you had Senator Whitehouse throw up a photo of a first, a master bedroom cabin and said, do you know what this is? Because there's allegations she's been behind closed doors in a bedroom with Corey Lewandowski the whole time and then try to bring Melania Trump into it. Somebody had the bright idea to load the plane to Melania. Now, Donald Trump hates many things. One, he doesn't like a grift that he doesn't get paid on. So if you're gonna, you know, if you're gonna spend $220 million in advertising, find a way for Donald Trump or one of his businesses to get some of the money, not your friends. And he certainly doesn't like when Melania, who spent very little time already at the White House, it's down to 13% this term. Doesn't. He doesn't like when Melania gets anything related to a private jet and being thrown under a bus to mix metaphors. He doesn't like that either. So it was that combination. But now he's got a bigger problem, Ben, because now that Kristi Noem is gone, fired by social media tweet, you know, she's a loose cannon. Inter. Does she pull a Marjorie Taylor Greene and completely, you know, dump all over the Trump administration? Because they, they didn't, you know. Yeah, she's the. I thought it was a bar. I thought it was a Marvel movie. She's going to be the head of shield. That's amazing. What a great job. So I guess they kept her kind of tethered there, but she's got a habit, a nasty habit of blaming Trump for things when she gets under fire. And then you got the labor secretary who has her own allegations against her husband of being a sexual abuser while she takes people to strip clubs. What is going on with this administration? It is not only a morally bankrupt administration, ethically bankrupt, illegal, but everybody there is practicing some version of magical thinking, hoping things will go, go well for them, especially when it comes to the Epstein scandal, which we're going to talk about next.
- [11:27]
Ben
Another word for magical thinking. Fraud. And one of the reasons, as it relates to Trump, that is, and one of the reasons we focus so heavily on Donald Trump's moral character, I should say lack thereof, is because the idea of leadership is not talked about enough or at all by corporate news. And when lots of people like, oh, you just hate Donald Trump. You're, you're the anti Trump channel. It's not because I just don't like this guy. It's not like this guy rubs me the wrong way. And by the way, there are lots of people with flawed moral character. It doesn't mean that I just go out and make it my business to make, make camp, make it clear that they're, that they have these moral failings. It's because when you put somebody in a leadership position, especially the biggest leadership position in the country, if not the world, although America is certainly shrinking its position in the world, we'll save that for more political and geopolitical analysis on the Midas Touch Network that bleeds into all these other areas. Right. The way Donald Trump handled lawsuits is now how the DOJ deals with it. Loser, manipulative, vindictive, frivolous. And now that infringes and encroaches upon our constitutional rights. The way Donald Trump dealt with contracts, not honoring them, ripping him to shreds, bad faith negotiations, not negotiating at all. That's how he deals with the Constitution. Ripping. The biggest contract we have here is the Constitution in the United States. Two shreds. But even how Donald Trump negotiated with Iran, where we picked a mediator, the foreign minister of Oman, who said that there was a big breakthrough, that technical details needed to be sorted out. Last Monday. And then during the break between Friday's mediation and Monday's mediation, the United States struck Iran because they said Israel was going to strike first. And so all these other areas on Donald Trump being a sexual predator, he surrounds himself with other Sexual deviants and sexual predators. The guy who hangs out with Epstein and Epstein class makes the Epstein class his Cabinet. I'm not saying this to exaggerate. If, if Epstein, you know, if Epstein was alive today, he may get a Cabinet role in the, he may become the Commerce Secretary. He probably would be pardoned, and he would be up for a major role. And not exaggerating by even saying that. I don't. I mean, the people who Trump surrounds himself with right now are part of that whole Epstein crew. So let's just get into it. Popak, and I'll pass it to you to talk about some of these updates. Reg Epstein, because this is what they don't want us talking about. They want us distracted. We're going to cover the war. We're going to cover Epstein. So those new 302 reports were finally released after the Trump regime hid them. And then lots of reporters were like, hey, there, these are missing Bates numbers. And I think the other big update is Pam Bondi was subpoenaed and under. So she'll be deposed. We'll see if she tries to object or what she's going to do there. And then Howard Lutnick is also going to be sitting for a deposition. I think he voluntarily agreed under pressure, so the vote didn't have to be taken. But in any event, he's being deposed. They're both having depositions. So what can you tell us about all of this?
- [14:45]
Michael Popak
Yeah, let's start with Pam Bondi. She's in deep shit. That's a legal AF term. Kristi Noem's firing shows that Donald Trump will fire somebody, especially throw them under the bus if it provides him political coverage. And if he's lost the Republican base, Kristi Noem lost many, many, many Republicans. Pam Bondi. It's not a great sign for Pam Bondi that five Republicans in the Oversight Committee voted with the Democrats to subpoena her. And if she's lost and the information that we've gotten, you do a lot of interviews to senators and congresspeople. So do I, without naming names, is that the senators, the Republican senators are none too pleased with Pam Bondi and how she comports herself and how she handles her. Her. Her appearances, her Oversight Committee appearances, her burn book, her. Her refusal to answer questions, simple questions that are posed to her, trying to score cheap political points as the Attorney general, and it's chafing them. And if she's lost them, Donald Trump has no problem getting rid of Pam Bondi with a social media tweet. And giving her some other job. Now, by the way, I thought the replacement for her and you and I, I think, agreed on this is Todd Blanche. Although I caught in doing some other investigative, you know, preparation for one of my hot takes, one of my commentaries, I caught a close ally of Donald Trump, who he went to high school with, military academy, high school. Peter Ticketon on a little watched podcast. I was watching it for another reason. Throw Todd Blanch under the bus and say that Todd Blanche is unethical, is a criminal, is terrible, and he's undermining Pam Bondi. It was a very weird thing to watch, especially since you and I both thought, I think, still thought that Todd Blanche was the number two. So Pam Bondi being, being hauled in against her will, conscripted into giving sworn testimony in public to the Oversight committee hearing, does not bode well for her. I don't care how many spokespeople. And there's been a number of them. How many spokespeople come out and say Donald Trump still has a lot of faith in her. How many. This is like a sporting team. How many times have you heard the owner of the sports team say they have complete confidence in the coach, and then like three days later or a week later, the coach is off spending more time with their family? Same thing's going on here with Pam Bondi. Okay, the thumbs up. And I can't. I can't hear you. As he's going to the helicopter. That's not working. And she has one more failed appearance, which I think this will be in a series of failed appearances. I think Donald Trump's gonna have no choice but to throw. Throw Pam Bondi out. She has a lot of explaining to do. Just to bring everybody up to speed, this one is about her handling of the Epstein files and to kind of, I guess, to grease the skids for her. I don't know if this helps her or hurts her. They released the. There were four FBI statements that were taken from a witness who was a material witness that they were going to use in the Ghislaine Maxwell criminal trial. Okay. In 2019. And you don't listen. You and I have been around this area of working in cases involving the FBI and other investigators. I have my whole career. So have you. You don't take four interviews of somebody if you think they're a crackpot. I don't, I don't care what happened to them in their life afterwards. But four interviews now, only one of the 302s. That's the official report number Sequence for an interview by the FBI got put into 3 million buried in the 3 million that we caught. Three were missing, they claimed. Oh, they were missing because they're redundant. No, no. Four separate. Four interviews is not redundant. Okay? Those are four different events. And this is a person. And I'll be clear. You know, we're on our own channel, we're on our own network here. I don't know whether this witness is. Is if it's true. Her allegations that when she was 13 or 14 years old, that Donald Trump tried to force her to commit oral sex on him, that she bit him, that he hit her and called her the B word. I don't know if that's true or not. But you know who else doesn't know whether that's true or not? The FBI and the Department of Justice. And that's the point. That was an allegation that was made that needed to be sussed out. And a independent entity that doesn't currently exist because we know the Department of Justice is captured by Donald Trump, as is the FBI. It's public. He said, I am the chief law enforcement officer of the United States. He said it while Pam Bondi was standing next to him earlier in the. Earlier in this term. Okay, so there is no independent entity. So we have the new reporting that Donald Trump has had his own documents. Where. Where were they? That he is now turning over to the Oversight Committee. There's reporting that he's cooperating, whatever that means, with the Oversight Committee. He's answered questions. Now let's get back to the documents. Where were the documents all this time? Who's selecting the documents? Who's going through them? You, Donald Trump. You're picking the documents out of your own special cache of documents related to Jeffrey Epstein and turning them over to the committee. Shouldn't there be an independent person not named Donald Trump that's looking at these documents and why weren't they turned over earlier? This does not, for me, do what. What Carolyn Levitt has said out loud in her press, in her press interviews or conferences, which is totally exonerate Donald Trump. First of all, how do you know? Okay, how do you. Every time they published a document, the 3 million, the 12,000, they always within hours, within minutes on social media, said, and Donald Trump is completely exonerated. You can't do both. You can't put the documents out there, not conduct an investigation, and then declare that the person is exonerated by press conference. But that's all that we have been watching. So, Pam bondi, you know. Mrs. I've got the Epstein file and client list right here on my desk is going to have, they're going to have those clips, is going to have a lot of explaining to do. Now, I don't know who made the decision. On balance, it was better to release these three more interview reports from this witness before she goes in. But it's not going to help her and it's going to give the, not just the Democrats, the Republicans that want to see her go see Pam. It's interesting. Pam Bondi is not well liked in the right wing maga. Maga influencer community. The opposite of us they are. She's not there. You know, there are half a dozen in the MAGA world that have been calling for her head Anne of Kash Patel almost from the very beginning because when it comes to the Epstein files, they see a scandal, they see people that are covering it up and they think Pam Bondi is leading that charge. And so they, you know, whether it's Laura Loomer who hates her, hates her or any of the other Erik Erikson, you name it, it's not hard to find a right winger social media influencer that's anti Pam Bundy. So she's been on the thinnest of thin ice for a long, long time. I think they're trying to find an exit for her and maybe it's going to come after these Epstein things. Look, you had Ted Lieu, Congressperson Lou pounding on the table. You are a disgrace and you should be. You just perjured yourself, Pam Body, and you should resign before this hearing is even over. And that chorus of calling for her resignation is growing. And Donald Trump just issued himself a permission slip. The glass ceiling has been broken. Kristi Noem has been fired. The next up, I believe, is going to be Pam Bondi. What do you think, Ben?
- [22:56]
Ben
You know, the one difference is that Pam Bondi has seen all of the Epstein files, which makes her a little bit more immune than Kristi Noem, in my opinion. Right. I mean, if Kristi Noem had access to all of the things that Bondi has seen, I think it might be a different equation. Notably, earlier this week, Donald Trump kind of did one of his mafioso warnings to Pam Bondi when he was at a press conference after he fired Kristi Noem, he said something like in Pam Bondi doing a heck of a job, right? Three more years, huh? She's going to do good those three years, right? She's going to do good. And what he's saying to her in Mafia language. If you know that that's what he's doing is if you want to be here for three more years, you're going to make a fool of yourself, embarrass yourself. For me, you see, the issue is that Kristi Noem didn't take it. Kristi Noem should have, if she wanted to keep her job, say, that was not Donald J. Trump's idea. The Dow is 50,000, and that was my idea. Donald Trump never makes bad ideas. Okay. You know, and so to the extent you didn't like that, that's on me. But I think that this administration has never been stronger. And he's totally vindicated. I mean, she should have said that. We would have all looked at that and said, Kristi Noem looked like an absolute idiot. And she does look like an absolute idiot, regardless. But Trump liked, I think, Pam Bondi making a fool of herself. That's actually what he's looking for. He likes Hegseth making a fool of himself. He likes when these people go up there and admit it. The moment someone blames him for anything, that's when you're out. So that's the trap that Bondi's gonna have to deal with. And the stupider she looks, as long as she's protecting Trump, she'll actually, I think, have the job security. Even if we're all like, oh, my God, that's, you know, that's awful. And regarding this thing where they say totally exonerated. Totally exonerated, you know, at the intersection of law, politics, and now war. Because Trump gets the United States into endless wars. The question is, which wars are we not in right now? It's like when questions are asked to the Defense Secretary or to the State Department, what's your response to the fact that Russia and China are now basically involved in this war and helping Iran against the United States? And the response is, oh, that. We don't. We don't mind that at all, because Iran is totally obliterated. That's another variation of totally exonerated. They're crushed. They're totally obliterated. They don't even exist anymore. They don't have an army. And you're like, okay, you're not exonerated. In the Epstein files, we know all of these facts. Iran may have been hit hard. That's. That could be factual. But they're not obliterated. They're still hitting their neighbors in the Middle East. So when you're lying a little and you're lying a lot, and everything's a lie, all at once we go, oh, everything you say is false. So actually when you say exonerated, you mean he's guilty. How else can we interpret that? What other opinions can we form when you just lie in such a brazen, in such a brazen manner? Oh, you're saying you don't care that Iran and Russia are involved in the war and that basically all of the world powers are now involved in a war as markets are crashing and you're going, that doesn't matter. Oh, it must be really bad. That's the issue when you have lying liars who lie all the time. So with that said right there, let's, let's just take a quick break. Our first break on Legal af. When we come back, we're going to talk about a lot more topics. One of the things we'll talk about is what the DOJ is doing as Bondi now asks her lawyers at the DOJ to also engage in this conduct. And they're now facing exactly like Popak and I told you, state bar investigations for lying to courts and being held in contempt and being sanctioned and engaging in perjury. Right. So now we'll tell you what the DOJ is trying to do to create immunity for their own lawyers. I mean, it's the most offensive stuff imaginable. Before going to break, a quick reminder, subscribe to Michael Popo's YouTube channel, Legal AF. YouTube channel. They're on their way to 2 million subscribers. Let's get them to 2 million subscribers in the next two months. They'll get there. They'll get there. Hit subscribe over there. Also check out the Legal AF sub stack search substack and then go to Legal af. And then if you or someone you know has been injured in an auto accident, trucking accident, a victim of sexual assault or harassment, medical malpractice. If you know somebody who has been injured based on the negligence of others, if you know someone who may have been killed by the negligence of others and you're speaking to their family members, reach out to the Popoc Firm, go to ThePopoc Firm.com or call or text 877- POPAK. That's 877 Popocf. Or visit ThePopocFirm.com and they're available 24. 7. They got lawyers across the country. The consultation is free. All right, we'll take our first quick break of the show. We'll see you on the other end of it.
- [28:10]
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- [31:00]
Ben
Thank you to all of our sponsors. They keep the show going. We're grateful for them. The discount codes for all of those sponsors are in the description below. Jordy and Popo spend a lot of time picking who's going to be the sponsors, rejecting sponsors that don't fit the brand. So make sure you check it out and let them know we sent you. All right, Popak, we talked about in the last segment, Bondi cover ups. Will she be fired? Now the issue is she runs a large organization. It's called the Department of Justice. Once upon a time it was both the biggest and the most respected law firm essentially in the entire country, if not the world. I would definitely say the world. It was a place where the top law students would want to work. People would leave private practice jobs where they may be making millions of dollars to give back through public service. Working at the Department justice, it was a stepping stone frequently to become a federal judge or state court judge. It puts you on a incredible career trajectory. Also the career DOJ lawyers, you know, usually were people of high integrity, of high moral character and they also had huge amounts of resources. So when you would see the USA on the plaintiff side or on the prosecutorial side, and you were on the other side of the V, as we like to say, on the defendant side, you would say, wow, we're, we're going to be in for a fight. Because you never doubted that they had good lawyers with high character, high integrity. Even if you thought that their prosecutions were overzealous or you disagreed with them, you never really doubted their ability to function. We now know there has been like close to 9,000 or more DOJ lawyers who have either been resigned or fired or have been pushed out. DOJ lawyers, staff combined, top talent, top divisions, civil rights divisions, antitrust divisions, you know, portions of their criminal division, crypto enforcement divisions, sex trafficking divisions. Gutted. Gutted. And you know, offices throughout the AUSA offices throughout the country, United States Attorney's offices throughout the country, gutted. Where they have very limited, limited talent to prosecute, you know, big, important cases. We talk about high profile cases a lot. But think about, you know, the cases that are medium profile or you know, the cases that the DOJ prosecutes on a day to day basis that are not being prosecuted. We see massive errors. We'll talk about in a little bit. You have the DOJ not acknowledging even the most basic fundamental constitutional rights. When judges grant habeas petitions saying that the government is holding people unlawfully in detention centers and release them, the DOJ sometimes doesn't follow the orders. Frequently, recently, doesn't, doesn't follow the orders. Then the Judge hauls the DOJ lawyers in, threatens them with contempt. The DOJ lawyers say, I'm sorry, I'm not even really a United States federal prosecutor. I work in jag. I'm a military lawyer. I'm an immigration lawyer. I don't know what we're doing. We're understaffed. I need help. We've had lawyers, DOJ lawyers saying, can you just put me in prison, hold me in contempt, please? You know, but that's truly happening. But, you know, these lawyers are missing deadlines. They're missing, they're. They're lying about the law. They are submitting false declarations, you know, and they're doing those things that we saw, you know, Trump's election, denying lawyers do, who got sanctioned and who lost their licenses. And so obviously, the doj, which is this cauldron of corruption and criminality, covering up sex trafficking and the Epstein files, they're not going to, you know, hold their own accountable. But in various states, you have state bar organizations. You know, the state bar. You ever hear of that? And these are the organizations that govern the professional responsibility and ethical conduct of lawyers in different states. And they have jurisdiction to remove people's legal licenses. In our federalist system, you are licensed to practice law. Not in the entire nation, in the United States, that may be confusing for some of our foreign viewers, but you are licensed in a particular state. You can take different state bar exams. So you can be licensed in California, New York, Florida. But that means you have to take the bar exams usually in those states. There's a wrinkle on that. Recently, they've introduced uniform exams and made it. But you still have to take portions of other exams and then also pass professional responsibility exams of specific states. So you're licensed only in a state. So as a California lawyer, I can't on my own go into Nevada or go into New York and start practicing law. I would have to have someone vouch for me there. It's a process called proact Vche I won't get into that, but I can't practice in other states without the assistance of local lawyers who lend their bar license to my name. Now, one of the ways to hold DOJ lawyers accountable for their ethical breaches, for their misconduct, since the DOJ won't, is through filing bar complaints against these DOJ lawyers. That could happen when people file them citizens, or more frequently, when judges make referrals because of the conduct that's before the court. And a federal judge says, I'm referring you to the state bar because you've missed deadlines so frequently, you've lied to the court, you've engaged in crimes, whatever, and I can refer you to prosecution, but if I refer you to prosecution, that means the DOJ is supposed to prosecute you for criminal contempt. Bondi's not going to do that. So the most we can do now until there's a new DOJ and the statute of limitations on their crimes has not expired, but for now is basically remove their law licenses and let local ethical organizations that run the ethics, like state bar organizations, remove your legal license. And so I'll pass it to you, Popak, but under the guise of federalism, we have the Trump DOJ now essentially saying, well, the supremacy Clause of the Constitution, federal preemption reigns supreme. So state bar organizations can't do investigations of any DOJ lawyer federal unless we say so. So we're going to do the investigations first indefinitely, once the DOJ lawyer tells us they're under investigation. And then state bar, you have to stay out because of the Supremacy clause of the Constitution. So we want unethical lawyers in the doj. I mean, Popak, how s. How sick is that?
- [37:37]
Michael Popak
The wolf is now regulating the chicken house. Yeah. Okay, so you gave a great overview of how you and I have a bar license. And, and the one little connectivity there that goes to the 10th Amendment, which is everything that's not federal is reserved to the states, is that you can't practice in federal court directly coming out of law school by taking a federal bar exam, you have to have an underlying state bar. Pick 1. Any 50 states in the District of Columbia, you got to have a state bar. That's your ticket to sit for a federal bar. Either an exam or to be sworn in through because somebody vouches for you. Whatever the individual, I've done it all. I've taken tests. I've been sworn in for my federal bars. But you have to have one state bar. And, and you can't skip a step. If you show up at the federal court and say, I went to an accredited law school and I'm ready to take your. Your federal bar test, they're like, where's your state license? So the states, as you said, regulate appropriately under, under the 10th, under the 10th amendment, things like professional licenses, it's. You're not a federal, although some people think they are. You're not a federal lawyer, you're not a federal. You may be a federal practitioner. That may be 100% of your practice is running over to the federal court instead of the State court. I have a mixed practice. I do state and federal work. But that doesn't mean you're a federal bar member only. So the states regulate either through their, either through an appellate division, an appellate court, a integrated bar like Florida, the Florida bar. Talk about that in a minute. I'm a member of that one or through the supreme court of that state. Those are the three different major ways. And it's all about the same as you. As you laid out, you take a multi state exam, which is like general law around the country. You take a state specific section, you take an ethics section.
- [39:45]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
You do.
- [39:45]
Michael Popak
Then you have to, then, then you just pass the bar based on the number that you get set by the regulators. Then you got to get past your character and fitness, you got to get admitted into the bar. And the reason it's called a bar for those geeks out there is because literally coming out of old England, out of the inns of court and legal England, there was a bar, a wooden bar. And if you were admitted to the bar, you could stand on the other side of it in the well of the court and address the court. Everybody else was in the courtroom watching. So you're a member of the bar, means you can cross over that line. And still to this day, most courts, there's a federal courts especially there is a wooden swinging door and, and bar that I have to walk through and close behind me and sit at a table to address the court. You know, that's why you don't, you know, you don't address the court from. Pardon me folks, I come in like a minute late. I'm coming in through the door in the back. Hey, judge. Hey. Hey dude. Sorry. Sorry I'm late. No, no, you rush, open that swinging door, get by, get in front of the bar and in your proper place as an officer of the court. Federal judges regulate and state court judges regulate too because when they observe something that's gone awry in their courtroom, a violation of the rules of professional responsibility or conduct, which are basically about the same in all states, comes from a model, a model rule. They can say, hey, that was not only contempt of my court and my order violated the bar rule, including a major one candor to the tribunal. Got to tell the truth, got to tell the truth to the best of your ability, to the judge or arbitrator, whoever that's asking you questions, okay? You have to be candid and not lie to your opponent as well, and certainly not to your client. All of these things have been on the violations of all These things on full display with this Department of Justice under Pam Bondi. Another indicia of Pam Bondi, knowing her, she's on thin ice, is trying before she gets thrown out to get this new rule passed. Because what they, what they didn't like in the first term is that the first starting team for Donald Trump of lawyers all, all got fined, sanctioned, censured, disbarred, indicted and, or convicted. And some, all three or four of those things. So you're talking about Ken Chesbrough and Sydney and Sidney Powell and Jenna Ellis and John Eastman and Rudy Giuliani, and the list goes on. Clark, Jeffrey Clark, this group all got some version. Even, even Alina Hama got sanctioned by a federal judge for her shenanigans in private practice. So they don't want that to happen again. And Pondi is forcing, because Trump is too, forcing the Department of Justice assistant US Attorneys and US Attorneys to take ridiculous positions that are unethical, defiant of court orders, telling, to paraphrase a former senior leader of the Department of Justice, Emil bovey, now a 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals judge, tell judges to go f themselves. We're not answering their questions. We're not. We're deporting people without due process in the middle of the night, whether they like it or not. So she's making them do it. And the, and the, and they've been, they've had a complete inability to, to refill the 6 or 7,000 people that have left the Department of Justice. So Bondi publishes and we, we missed it. We caught it later about a week or two ago in the Federal Register, a proposed new rule. New rules. Okay, then I feel like I'm. What's his name, Bill Barr. New rule. States can do the investigation, but we can block it and do our own. It'll be the feds investigating themselves and it, like you said, go on indefinitely. We could do for as long as we want. And while we're doing an investigation, whatever that means, states, you stay out of it. You, you, you can't do your thing even though there's an underlying bar license that you do regulate. But not here. Now, the Florida Bar, for instance, took a very interesting position when Pam Bondi had a bar complaint against her brought by the same group that brought the civil, that brought the claim against or the, the bar charge against Lindsey Halligan, which was Florida Bar, took the position, which I don't agree with, is, well, while they're in federal practice and working for the federal government, we're not going to investigate. Meaning when they're out, they will, because Bondi and the rest have another problem. The statute of limitations for things like, like obstruction of justice is now longer than the administration. In other words, it's a five year statute of limitations for most of the crimes, including lying to Congress, that these people are committing before our very eyes. But this term is over in 2028. So the next Department of Justice, I love the sound of that, in 2029, can prosecute all of these people, including Kristi Noem, including Pam Bondi or Todd Blanche or anybody else that obstructed justice or lied to Congress. So I love these people say, well, these, these Oversight Committee hearings, are they really useful? Yes, for many reasons, including the one that I just outlined. So this whole. Now the state bars are all, they're all apoplectic, most of them anyway. And they're all going to comment and oppose the rule about. This is their right under the 10th amendment. This is their professional regulation, self policing, not up to the feds. And whether you want to decide whether they did or didn't commit an ethical violation, that's for you. You want to discipline them from a professional standpoint, but from their bar license standpoint, that's our job. So there's going to be a whole fight over that. But the fact that she's even trying it is remarkable. I do want to say one thing, because you and I, you said something earlier that triggered, triggered something for me. You said a version of. It's not like we want to be critiquing and criticizing and calling to task Donald Trump, you know, for ratings or whatever. And we have no choice because we're watching an out of control, lawless, rogue presidency. We've got to talk about it. And he just continues to do it over and over again. We don't blow smoke or sunshine here. I mean, that, that is our remit. There was a. I caught this doing some other research on something I did a hot take on on Legal af. That's up now. Judge Reyes, who is a Biden appointee who has been attacked. She's a D.C. federal judge who's been attacked by the Trump administration time and time again, including them bringing a judicial ethical charge against her, which she got cleared of, related to her case, where she ruled that the transgender community can't be drummed out of the military. She just posted on her docket, literally what she calls a shout out to the quality of one assistant U.S. attorney. That was before her and the quality now, she ruled against that person, him. But she wanted and Obviously she wanted to contrast his conduct and his behavior with those that are not following his lead and are being defiant and disrespectful of federal courts and misleading them and not being honest to the tribunal. Let me read this to you Ben, and to our audience. Listen to this posting. Have you ever seen anything like this in your career? February 3, the day after she ruled against the government about 350,000 Haitians who will who based on her order will not be deported back to war torn Haiti based on a Christie Noem order which has now been affirmed, at least for now, at the Court of Appeals. Here's what she wrote. The court thanks all counsel of record for their substantial efforts to date, efforts that have amply aided its work. The court highlights Assistant U.S. attorney Drummond Y Sampat. His work has been, in a word, exemplary. In a few more it's been the very best tradition of Assistant U.S. attorneys. Over a two day motion hearing he exhibited mastery of an intricate statutory regiment, three complex doctrinal areas and 1500 pages of an administrative record. And even with the court lobbying endless questions at him, he did so with good humor throughout the court has not before docketed this type of judicial shout out her words. But Mr. Sampat's efforts demands no less. So we're when we see appropriate conduct behavior, good lawyering, we like Judge Reyes will call it out. The fact that we don't do it is not because we're editing and leaving on the cutting room floor really good behavior by the Trump administration that we just don't want to talk about because it gets in the way of our narrative. We don't have a narrative. We're just talking about at the intersection of law and politics what is right and what is wrong. And I think that's why people hang out with us at least on a regular basis on Legal Laughing on the Midas Dutch network.
- [49:13]
Ben
Right. I mean covering up a child sex trafficking ring. Wrong. Shouldn't be your Democrat or Republican. That's wrong and that needs to be called out. I don't know what's what needs to be called out more than more than that. An unlawful war for regime change without even trying to explain it to the American people. And then saying the reason that you did it was because you believed Israel was going to strike first and then Iran was going to strike you next. And then saying I didn't say that when we hurt with what you like the words that you said Marco Rubio and MAGA Mike Johnson. But not even trying to explain this to the American people or get legal authorization. I mean, I just think objectively it shouldn't matter what political party you're from, we should be able to call that out as wrong. I mean, having masked agents roam the streets in military gear, kidnapping, killing, torture, terrorizing, going into these states that are, have their own kind of state sovereign functions and invading them, and that's, that's wrong. What we saw with Alex, Pretty, Renee, Nicole Good, the 40 plus people who died in detention centers as well last year, the nearly a dozen people who have died this year, that's objectively authoritarian conduct. That's bad. We should call that out. And it's not an anti Trump thing. It's Trump is doing that thing and I am anti the person who has shredded our Constitution and shredded our rights and shredded, you know, I think the, the, the, the things that actually made America viewed, be viewed internationally, you know, as something that's special. I mean, I'll read this to you right now. This is from a foreign minister in India, foreign Secretary of India, who also served as an ambassador to the United States in China. Perhaps what unsettles me most is the sense of disbelief. For many of us, the United States was a country we admire deeply its institutions, its culture, its ideals. To see such callousness now, such indifference to the human cost of war, is profoundly troubling. Power exercise without reflection risks becoming something colder, something stripped of the moral restraint that once gave it legitimacy. And I mean, I think whether you look at the US War posture, how Trump and Hegset talk about themselves as predators, that the United States is a predator country that dominates and rains down death, I mean, when I hear these words, I'm like, what, what the hell is even. What is happening here? When you see in domestic policy or domestic life, invasions of our states and our cities, I mean, what the hell is going on here? And you know, when we started legal af many, many years ago, we warned that this could be a reality. And lots of people in our very early days criticized me and Popak and our whole team. And they would say, ah, hyperbolic. And I would get all the, the fact checks and this and the that and saying, stop, stop trying to be so hyperbolic. Why are you saying all of these things? Because, because it's. Because we're listening to what's happening. We're showing you the evidence and the data. With that said, we're going to take our last break of the show. A reminder. If you or someone you know has been injured in a trucking accident, car accident, been injured by the negligence of somebody else. If you know somebody you know in a tragic situation, maybe they were killed because of the negligence of somebody else and you're speaking with their families or all these kind of catastrophic injury cases. Michael Popak handles at the Popak Firm and he represents, you know, a huge amount of people who listen and watch the show who have cases. I've been calling popoc. Obviously, you trust his legal voice here. Don't be shy. Call the popoc firm 877-popak AF or visit the popoc firm.com that's 877-popocaf or visit the popoc firm.Com also subscribe to the legal AF YouTube channel. Let's get that 2 million subscribers. Also subs to the Legal a substack. Let's get that staying as one of the top substacks out there. All right, last break of the show. We'll be right back after this quick break.
- [53:38]
Michael Popak
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Michael Popak
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Michael Popak
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- [56:31]
Ben
back to Legal AF. Thank you to all of our sponsors. Once again, the discount code for those sponsors are in the description below. Support our sponsors. Support the show. And our sponsors are great. They do great stuff, do great work, make great things. Support our sponsors. All right, let's get into it. Popak. Let's just talk. We talked about, you know, this disastrous doj. I want to show you some examples of this. So as Josh Gerstein explains, the Trump administration through the DOJ reverses course again in litigation of Trump executive order targeting the major law firms. One day after moving to drop the appeal aimed at reviving the order, the executive order, the DOJ now asks to keep on going and they want to withdraw their dismissal. If that sounds confusing, it's because this DOJ is absolutely idiotic and it is confusing. Trump puts out executive order targeting different law firms. Remember he would like, like have executive order on this law firm or that law firm and say because this law firm employs this lawyer or these lawyers, you can't do business with the government and just lawyers who had sued Donald Trump in the past or who Donald Trump, you know, doesn't like, or lawyers who are on TV who criticize him, whatever it is. So Trump does executive orders at them. There are lots of law firms that capitulated and entered into settlements with Donald Trump and behaved absolutely Pathetically. And this was very disappointing, to say the least. Especially firms that people once respected who will go down in history as traders. That's their history now, destroying their law firms. And we learned that some of them have Epstein connections. Surprise, surprise, they're in the Epstein files. Surprise, surprise. But the law firms that fight won. They won big. The cases got consolidated pretty much before a district court judge, Beryl Howell, she and any other judge who heard these types of cases strongly ruled against the Trump regiment and said that there are constitutional violations attacking these law firms. So after losing big, and I mean in scathing orders, like this executive order by Donald Trump is frivolous. It reeks of fascism. Like, the orders were just like, you're not going to win this. Trump appealed through the DOJ to the D.C. circuit Court of Appeals. And then I guess somebody realized, you know, not only are we going to lose, but we're probably going to be sanctioned and we may lose our law licenses for doing frivolous appeals. And also, I think some of these DOJ lawyers are like, like, we're going to keep attacking law firms. Like, where are we going to work after this regime is over? Like, there aren't these firms that, like, hire people and like, maybe this is a bad look. So the doj, for whatever reason, they decide to dismiss their appeal, meaning the case is done. The law firms win. The law firms announce, we won. This should never have been filed. Trump gets wind of that. He tells the DOJ lawyers, you dismiss this. How could you dismiss this without telling me, no, no, no, you refile it. Like, we can't refile it. We dismissed it. Then withdraw your dismissal. So they file a motion to withdraw the motion to dismiss the appeal. Motion to withdraw. Motion to voluntarily dismiss the appeal. Defendants, meaning the Trump regime respectfully moves to withdraw their motion to voluntarily dismiss their appeal against the law firms. Counsel for Trump reached out to the law firms for their position. The law firms oppose stating the law firms oppose the government's unexplained request to withdraw yesterday's voluntary dismissal, to which all parties agreed. Under no circumstance should the government's unexplained about face provide a basis for an extension of its brief to which the government, the Trump regime says, regardless of the law firm's position, this court has not yet granted the motion to dismiss, and it is the prerogative of the government to pursue this appeal. Now, in addition, there's no prejudice to the law firms. If the court grants this motion, this court should grant this motion to withdraw. Popak a Motion to with so now you all see why Pam Bondi wants to try to get immunity for her lawyers who can lose their license for filing stuff like this.
- [60:53]
Michael Popak
Well, yes. And let's, let's go over the only reason. So for those that, that are courtroom watchers and watchers of legal af, the reason that they had to put that text in about, we reached out to the other side and here is their statement is because the rule in that particular court is you need to reach out to the other side and what, whatever their position is, you need to tell us what that is. They didn't want to write those words. They want to write the words that highlight that they refuse to tell the court the real reason within hours they needed to withdraw the motion to withdraw because they're being berated and abused by Donald Trump. Somebody woke up over there and says they don't have a really good reason, even though they're not totally wrong. You do have the right to withdraw a motion, but you need to give a good, good faith reason. And they decided to skip that step. But what it demonstrates for me is assuming that the original policy decision to, to stop going after the law firms was a, was a good one. Was. And it's another example of Donald Trump folding under pressure because he's going to lose on this appeal. Whether it was Judge Beryl Howell, which I'll mention in a minute, or Judge Leon, there's a, there were three judges that kind of handled these cases. And the appeal, the appeal of it got consolidated up barrel. Howell had the best line. And it's consistent with what you just said, Ben, about how these law firms that settled will go down in history as the Benedict Arnold of a profession for which I'm not sure they recover in terms of future hiring, retention, you know, all the other things that go along with being a major law firm in this country, our leadership, she said, and I'm paraphrasing because I haven't read it in about six months. But she said in a footnote, complimenting the law firms that came to her and to other federal courts. She said, when you're being put by the federal government on a blacklist, that imperils your ability to not only earn a living, but to represent clients. The most fundamental and sacrosanct relationship, one of the most sacrosanct relationships in our society is that of lawyer and client. Even de Tocqueville, when he was roaming around America during the Revolutionary War period, said the thing that distinguishes America in its, its version of democracy is the lawyers the independence of the lawyers, when that happens to you, don't settle, come to a federal judge near you and let us handle the issue. And what they found is the First Amendment rights and the fifth Amendment rights of these law firms were being violated. Because what Donald Trump did, just to rewind for a minute, is that Donald Trump was pissed that he was effectively radioactive during, after the first term. That not only because we saw what happened on January 6th and Donald Trump fomenting an insurrection and doing nothing about it in dereliction of duty, but he was also the subject of a major fraud investigation against his family and himself that resulted in a judgment of fraud, persistent fraud for 10 years brought by the New York Attorney General Letitia James and a monitor, a court ordered person who still sits inside the Trump Organization because of their fraud. An auditing firm that quit and publicly announced that none of Donald Trump's financial records could be trusted because effectively they had been lied to for years. So as that as a backdrop and a conviction on 19 felony counts of a series of major companies that Donald Trump operates for business record and tax fraud. So with that, banks and law firms were like, nope, don't want to touch Donald Trump with a ten foot pole. That's why he ended up having to get Lawyers had to leave their law firms in order to represent Donald Trump. C. Todd Blanche, see Chris Kais, see Alina Haba. This little law firm you never heard of near the golf course in New Jersey because no major firm wanted to take him on. And the other aspect of major firms that drove Donald Trump crazy is they all had what we call pro bono departments, which were lawyers, usually young lawyers, but some senior lawyers that would take on controversial cases or cases that had a lot of merit against Trump and the Trump administration or Donald Trump himself for free. All major law firms had a pro bono department like that. Donald Trump hated that. So when he got into power, he put a list of 14 or 20 law firms who made a lot of money. This was their livelihood in representing clients before federal government agencies or in some rare circumstances representing federal government agencies with some highly technical legal issues. Some firms made 50, 60, 70% of their money representing clients against the federal or in collaboration with the federal government. Like, oh, Amazon, you're going to do a cloud computing contract. Oh, Amazon has lawyers. And Donald Trump said, oh no, you law firms, we're not going to let you. We're not going to give you the security clearances that you need. We're not going to give you the ability. We're going to bar you from federal. They even went as far bent, just to remind everybody to threaten to bar lawyers from going into federal courts or to go meet with the securities and Exchange Commission or other federal agencies and all the judges that got it for the few firms that you and I know well that stood up for themselves and ran to court, they all won. First Amendment violation, Fifth Amendment violation. And with scathing, as you said, scolding of the Trump administration for doing what it was trying to do and put them all back in the game. And they all got their security clearances back and their, their ability to, to have clients back and clients have the lawyer of their choice back. There was a bunch that settled, led by, as you, as you referenced, a firm that has an Epstein problem that settled first for $40 million, a firm that I know well, and I have friends that work there at Paul Weiss in New York. We're like, why are they settling? Well, now we know why. Because there were plenty of documents in the Epstein files connecting the head of Paul Weiss to Jeffrey Epstein, directly to the head of, to Leon Black, a financier and disgraced financier in New York and Epstein and girls. So now we know why they settled first. I'm not sure the partners of that guy knew that. That's why they were settling first and then others for 100 million, 125 million, one at a time, up to a billion dollars in tribute being paid to Donald Trump in pro bono services, which we've never got a proper auditing for. Like, who's providing the services, what are they providing, how are they providing it? But that is, that'll be on their epitaph, on their obituary that they settled with Donald Trump. This is a loser for Donald Trump. So it made sense that finally they're trying to clean up the losers cases, and they start dismissing appeals and not pursuing appeals, so they don't get another loss, especially in this particular area, as he's also simultaneously trying to protect his federal lawyers and his senior lawyers from losing their bar licenses. So that sort of made you, you know, you are like, it's, it's evil genius, but it's genius. Get rid of the loser case. Try to do this rule, try to delay bar grievances and disciplinary actions against, against lawyers that work for the Department of Justice and senior leadership. And. But somewhere, because the press and Midas and legal af, we platformed the public outrage about this and the celebration about his dropping it, Trump got embarrassed and he retaliated. And he said, who made that decision? And then we got to withdraw the withdrawal. Okay. But that's good. We'll take it as a gift. It is a loser debt on arrival legal case for the Department of Justice, and it makes Pam Bondi and everybody in leadership and Donald Trump look as ridiculous as they really are in real life. And yet another thing, for the next Oversight committee hearing on the Judiciary Committee, if, if Pam Bondi survives the Epstein hearing, which I'm not sure she does, but if she survives, that makes its way around that. This whole thing about the rule she's trying to pass, the fact that she's trying to protect her lawyers from being disbarred, including herself, and issues like this that you just pointed out are all going to be, all going to be appropriate, fair game and fodder for the next cross examination of Pam Bondi.
- [70:10]
Ben
Right. And you lose. You lost, Donald. And the right thing to do when you lose, I mean, Popak, you and I have litigated. You win, you lose. And frequently when I would lose. There's no trial lawyer who litigates tough big cases and wins every case. That's just not the way it is when you lose. You handle it with humility. Are you sad? Do you go home and you're, what could I have done better? Was it me? Was it the jury? You know, could I have done things? But you, usually the way I would always practice, you look the other side that you may have had hard fought battles with, you shake their hand, you wish them well. I mean, people don't know this about me and you. We became best friends because we were on other sides of cases. Popak and I were at each other's throats on a very serious, high profile big case where we were on opposite sides of it and we left it, becoming friends and saying, you know what this was. We can fight hard, but we are also, you know, at the end of the day, we're lawyers. We have responsibilities to our communities in this profession. And, and that's how we became friends.
- [71:22]
Michael Popak
We, you know, and I respected you and your, I respected your talents and what you were doing for your client and your, your honor.
- [71:30]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Right.
- [71:31]
Michael Popak
And we, yes, we were at each other's throats, but I respected you as a lawyer of the case. I know you did the same for me. And, and, and we, you know, we, we got a good result for both of our clients, if that's possible, in a, in a, in a resolution. And then that's it. You're right, we stayed.
- [71:47]
Ben
And I didn't know if Popak was a Republican or a Democrat. Or an independent.
- [71:51]
Michael Popak
That's true.
- [71:52]
Ben
You didn't know what that. You know, I, you know, I wasn't doing Midas Touch videos back then. No one knew what the politics, you know, was. And, you know, I represented clients who were Republicans. I rep. Some of my clients may have become Trump supporters in the future. I don't know whether they were or weren't. I was representing people. You were representing people represented.
- [72:11]
Michael Popak
I represented Howard Lutnick. I worked at Canter Fitzgerald.
- [72:16]
Ben
So we. So, so, so the point, though, is, is that, you know, you lose, you know, and, yeah, the right move was to dismiss the appeal, never to do this executive order in the first place. But he's like, He's a sore loser. It's baby behavior. It's gross. It's just gross behavior. Which brings me to the last topic I want to talk about, which is these tariffs against the world. We'll talk about it briefly because we covered it at length two shows ago. But everybody knows the tariffs against the world were obviously rejected by the Supreme Court. They're declared, you know, what Trump did under IPA was declared illegal. So rather than accepting the loss and saying, you know what? That's, you know, I shouldn't have done that. I'm putting this mildly. We shouldn't have done that. Shouldn't have stole, you know, billions of dollars from people. You return the money, you give people their money back. Right? That's what you do. You shouldn't say, I'm gonna fight this every day. I'm not gonna give you your money back. You stole money. You were found to have stolen. Give it back, Donald. Give back your bottle. You shouldn't give. Give it back to people. Then Donald Trump goes, you know what, what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna make the tariffs bigger. So he finds another law that he violates and says, this one, Section 122 of the Trade act of 1974, which deals with monetary currency manipulation, balance of payments, imbalance of. But, like, you know, when we were on the Brenton Wood gold system, you know, I mean, you know, it's like nothing. You know, it has nothing to do with the current system when the dollar was pegged to gold and whether there could be, like, a run on gold. Although, you know, by going to war against Iran, maybe he's going to be creating, you know, that fiscal crisis. I got the fiscal crisis to tariff the world. You know, I didn't think about that one until I'm speaking, you know, speaking out loud. But now what happens? The same groups that sued I'll give it to you, Popak. They're suing and saying you're unlawfully invoking this other law right now. And then there are other groups now I saw, like, Nintendo file a lawsuit and others saying, first, return the money you stole from us, you know, the first time. And then other groups are saying section 122 is unlawful. And Trump's like, well, you know, I could probably drag this out to my third year now and do what I did last time before the Supreme Court takes it. It'll be like, you know, April 2027 maybe, you know, and, and I'll drag it out then. What do you make of all this?
- [74:49]
Michael Popak
Yeah, you know, it's funny. One thing about Trump, though, he recognizes that the things he does will lead to lawsuits. You and I were talking, wasn't quite in our wheelhouse for today, but we were talking about the White House and Trump convening a college sports summit for no reason other than to distract attention from things that matter to everyday Americans, like the gas pump and the supermarket and health care. And, you know, how they're going to help aged parents or young children in their lives. But, you know, Donald Trump loves sports. You know, we're going to have an MMA fight, apparently to celebrate a 250th anniversary of America for no reason. So. But at one point he said, I'm going to do an executive order. I'm going to solve the whole problem with college sports and, and all the money in there and how students are treated, and there'll be a lawsuit. So I'm going to get sued over it. He said, like four times. He's a little, he's a little gun shy now, a little post traumatic stress disorder from all the times he's been successfully sued. So in this one, we've got a couple of free, a couple of data points that have developed in the last 72 hours. You've got Judge Eaton, who's a senior judge at the Court of International Trade, who has been given the remit by the chief judge of the Court of International Trade, which is a court I love, by the way, because you and I never talked about it in four and a half or five years of legal af. And now it's all, we can't stop talking about it. The Court of International Trade sitting in New York, three judge panels. Usually, Judge Eaton has been given the assignment to do all issues related to refunds under the Supreme Court ruling that the tariffs are taxes and the taxes are illegal. And therefore, Trump's use of this International Emergency Powers act to tariff the world at 200 countries and unlimited goods is illegal. So Judge Eaton actually had. This is like a new. This is something new that the judges are doing. They're making the Department of Justice and lawyers and departments audit themselves and tattletale on themselves before they make rulings. We've seen it, for instance, in judges saying, how many court orders has the Department of Justice violated in this district alone when it comes to writs of habeas corpus? 127. They're making them do the hard work here. Judge Eaton sent out a question, had a questionnaire to the border customs and border patrol person responsible for trade about how many, how many? They call it impositions. How many have happened since iipa? And he said like five times the amount as before. Okay, and how many of those have you refunded? None. And what processes or rules have you been given by your superiors to start refunding under, under the Supreme Court ruling in February? None. Okay, thank you. He then wrote an order that said, as of right now, you are to stop imposing the refund, the IIPA tariff, you are to send the money back to them. Now, he didn't set up yet a procedure for people that have not yet applied for the refund reformed, but he's getting there. And that's going to put pressure on the Trump administration to either come up with a method to in the next 90 days, repay the $150 billion back to primarily American importers and pass back to businesses and come up with a plan, or this Judge Eaton is going to make the ruling for them. Now, Donald Trump's decided that he's going to use another statute which he has no ability to use if there's, as you said, a balance of payment problem, which sounds like balance of trade, but it's not. Has to do with currency, has to do with the fluctuation of the US Dollar. And so when we thought we were getting paid for something at a certain dollar amount, that currency fluctuated because of other issues. And now we're not getting what we thought we were getting. We thought our dollar was worth X. Turns out our dollar is worth 20 cents less than that. So we're getting paid less. There is almost no balance of payment problem in America. It is a rounding error. The World bank considers it a rounding error. The couple of billion dollar Delta Donald Trump's using, we got a balance of payment problem. We don't. And it's illegal. And 20 states led by the Democrats, California, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Virginia, Oregon, you name it, have all joined together. Twenty out of the 24 Democratic attorneys general joined together, along with Josh Shapiro, Pennsylvania and Andy Beshear in Kentucky to challenge the use of what we call section 122 tariffs, because there's no balance of payment problem in this country. So it's an illegal, illicit use of the tariff thing. And for Donald Trump, I joked on one of my hot takes, it's like, it's like a person robs your house, they rob your house and they get caught and they say, well, we're not going to repay you. I'm not going to give you back what I stole because I'm about to steal from you again. That's not how that works, okay? His first attempt at stealing our money got spotted by the Supreme Court and shot down. Now it's time to repay it. Now, a lot of people are mad at the Supreme Court, like they didn't put in a, a process for the repayment. That's not how the Supreme Court works. As to paraphrase Amy Cody Barrett, I'm a judge, not an economist or a business person. We declare the thing invalid. You guys go sort it out at the Court of International Trade or the Congress or something. Now, there is a dirty little secret here, which is it's probably going to end up being plaintiffs lawyers that are going to, you know, shout out to the plaintiff's lawyers that are going to have to find a way through class action suits to get the money ultimately back into the American pocket pocketbook for having paid for tariffs through prices that were increased now that the tariffs have been refunded. So it's not a windfall for the businesses. Right. The businesses, through American importers, paid the tariff, whatever it was, passed it along, 70, 80, 90% onto Americans through price increases. The Americans paid those price increases, revenue came into the businesses, but then the businesses got the money back. So it's going to be a very rare business who's going to declare some sort of price holiday and say, hey, you know those cheerios that were $5 a box? We're going to lower it to 380 for the next three months to pay you back. Forget it. But it's going to be plaintiffs lawyers who are going to be have to be creative to figure out a way to bring class action suits against these companies to get the money back to the American consumer who ultimately paid the price. And it just shows you that Donald Trump will go out of his way to steal money from the American people. You and I joked, as did the Wall Street Journal, that the best thing that could ever happen to Donald Trump after seeing that after 13, 14 months, his proof of concept sucked and that his tariff scheme was destroying the American dream, the best thing that could have ever happened to him was let the Supreme Court tear the tariffs down and he could blame the Supreme Court and go, I wanted to do it this way. I can't do it this way. And great. Recalibrate his economic policies to try to help Americans, maybe in time for the midterms. Nope, that's not how Donald Trump sees it. Yes, he attacked the Supreme Court, but then he's like, we're bringing the tariffs, bringing the tariffs back. It's just mind bo his. I mean, they're shooting yourself in the foot and then they're shooting yourself in the head. No pun intended. And Donald Trump just finds a way, just finds a way to not only destroy the economic goals and success of the American people and steal money from them at the same time, but also, even when he's given a gift from a court ruling, he doesn't see it that way because, as you said, he's such a petulant child that he can't reverse course, which is our gift, because he'll never be able to tick off all the boxes of things that people hate about him. His immigration policy. Right? Mark. Appointing Mark Wayne Mullins, a former MMA fighter and a guy who does home home development, home remodeling videos on YouTube, does not qualify you to run Border Patrol, ICE and FEMA. Okay, he might be good if you want to hire him for personal security. You want him to be your bodyguard, maybe, but. But the head of. In the middle of this, the middle of this, as you said, cauldron of. Of chaos. This is the guy. Because nobody else wants to be in the administration. So these are all gifts. He can't fix immigration. He can't fix the economy. He can't fix his. His. The scandals, the. The corruption in time for the midterms. They're printing ballots. Primaries have happened, right? We're down to, you know, one hand and a couple of figures on the other hand. Until the midterms, so the polling becomes real.
- [84:11]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
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- [84:13]
Michael Popak
I'll leave. I'll leave my rant on this. The only thing that is the cure. The cure, the antidote to what we're watching is to vote. Overcome all of these ridiculous barriers to voting and bring your grandmother and bring your passport and bring your first grade report card, whatever it is, whatever the rule that ends up being left standing in your state and make sure you're not purged from the rolls based on mail in balloting being under attack. You got time, use the time now. Fix your own voting situation now. Then you can help others around the country get them registered. Because if the, if the anti Trump vote just comes out, this is going to be a wave election that's going to wipe clean and send all of how the House packing but the Democrats back in power in the House and the Senate and set up for a 2028 presidential race. So for all. So no more hand wringing. Right? What's the line that I heard a lot of my attorney generals use when I interviewed them? If your hands are busy doing something, you don't have time to wring your hands. That's what we need. Busy hands. Can't be ringing them. And this is where it's the number one thing everyone I've ever interviewed. So have you. Has said, which is get ready to vote and vote. That's what the Republicans are scared shitless about. Because if we vote in the right numbers, if we just vote and don't sit out the election, they lose. We want voting in mass quantities, not fraudulent, just regular. They don't want voting at all. That's the only way they can win a general election. So that's what we need to do to restore the co equal branches of government checks and balances and get corruption out of this administration.
- [86:08]
Ben
Well said Michael Popak and everybody. We're thankful for Popak being back here on Legal af. I know everybody wanted to see Michael Popak, you know, occasionally though, you know, Popak and I, you know, want to give each other a little bit of time off. So, you know, maybe Popak will, you know, do some solo videos without me. I'll do some with that. But I know you want to see us together. I know. More importantly, want to see Popak. So Popak, it's great to have you back. And a reminder to everybody, if you or someone you know has been injured in a car accident, a trucking accident, if you know someone or you've been injured because of the negligence of another company or a person or something, reach out to the Popoc firm. If you know someone who's been killed in a wrongful death case and you speak with their family members, they're looking for lawyers, reach out to Popak. He's got the Popoc firm. The consultation is free. 877 popak af call or text or visit thepopoc firm.com Again there's a link in the description below as well and also go check out the Legal AF YouTube. Check out the Legal AF substack right now. Let's keep growing those Legal AF properties and make sure you subscribe to again the YouTube and the substack. That's it for me and Michael Popo. Thank you everybody for watching. Stay in there. Stay in the fight. Keep telling the truth. Keep watching Midas Touch Legal AF and we're grateful for you. See you next time on Legal af. Shout out Midas. Mighty shout out Legal A Efforts. To realize the future America needs.
- [87:45]
Michael Popak
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Ben
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Ben
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Ben
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Ben
My refund though. I'm freaking out.
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Michael Popak
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Ben
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Michael Popak
No problem.
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Ben
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Ben
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Michael Popak
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