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- [00:00]
Ryan Reynolds
Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment
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Karen Freeman McNiff
of $45 for three months, $90 for
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six months or $180 for a 12 month plan.
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Michael Popok
Required $15 per month equivalent taxes and
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Mint Mobile Announcer
feeds Extra initial plan term only greater than 50.
- [00:28]
Michael Popok
Gigs me slow when network is busy.
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- [01:47]
Michael Popok
Welcome to a special World cup edition of Legal af. You might as well jump on the bandwagon. US playing right at where we're counter programming the US Game right now. Those that are like, was the World cup over yet? And but I'm glad you're all here with us. My regular anchor on the Midweek, Karen Freeman McNiff, of course with us here. So much to talk about just in the last 24 to 48 hours. Karen, everything from the you know, as we came on the air, we got a brand new lawsuit. John O. Brennan, former CIA Director under Donald, under Barack Obama and apparently a target under some grand conspiracy theory of of some sort of obstruction or conspiracy or something that's not time barred by statute of limitations. Well, he's not waiting around to get indicted. So he filed his own lawsuit first and in district court in the D.C. area. And he wants the preservation of all the documents that Donald Trump, the Department of justice and Cash Patel have. Don't destroy anything because I'm going to need them for my vindictive prosecution motion in the future. But it's a very interesting complaint, Karen, because it's like a speaking complaint. It's got sections and paragraphs. It reads like a legal brief more than a complaint. You know, screw him to get his story out before and I think this is the first bullet in the war as he will will obviously this will be something that will be seen by a future judge if ever they get around to indicting. A very interesting strategy though. I want to get it from your prosecutor and defense lawyer standpoint of like not waiting around to see if I'm getting indicted. Having watched what happened with people like John Bolton coming out and filing his own lawsuit. We'll talk about that. E Jean Carroll had a big win, but of course the Trump, the Trump side of the case are trying to delay her getting money. Supreme Court finally ruled effectively 90 because nobody dissented that they're not going to overturn the jury verdict that found Donald Trump to be a sex abuser or defamer or somebody that owes punitive damages. And the five point now $5.7 million running with interest that she was awarded by the first jury should be paid out to her. So that was the ruling. And then a day later, as expected, Robbie Kaplan for EG filed her motions with the court. And wait till you hear how Donald Trump reacted in a social media post. I'll leave you on the edge of your seat there. We've got, you know, we're unpacking all of these Supreme Court rulings for those that want to see a really interesting round pain round round a roundtable that's better. Panel roundtable discussion. I think that's where I was going from with Supreme Court sort of experts. Come over to Legal Life YouTube channel and go under the live tab and you'll find today a hour long panel hosted by our friends Court Accountability Action with Ellie Mistahl and Leah Litman and others, Mike Sachs talking about all the cases that have come out and sort of taking a 5,000 or 10,000 foot perspective on the Supreme Court term really Interesting stuff over on Legal AF YouTube channel. So I'll, I'll commend people to go over there. And one of the, but one of the rulings that has not gotten enough attention and I think it should. We'll talk about tonight, which is the trans, the transgender ruling. Brett Kavanaugh writing for a 6 to 3 majority once again, you know, bashed a group of people in America who can't defend themselves. Transgender community, especially when it comes to sport. And some, some new revelations where how the Trump administration is going to try to make political hay and score cheap political points about after losing at the Supreme Court on the mail in. Sorry. On birthright citizenship. You know, trotting out Stephen Miller.
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Audience/Interjection
Wow.
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Michael Popok
The crazy, you know, crazy town shit that Stephen Miller said out loud today with Jesse Waters and Donald Trump's comments about how he's gonna fix the constitutional interpretation with a statute. I don't think, I don't think he's getting a proper briefing on how our system of government works and how constitutional analysis works. It can't be overcome by an act of Congress because it's in the Constitution. So we'll cover that in so much more. But I want to catch up with my old friend Karen Free McNiffle. Karen, how are you?
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Karen Freeman McNiff
I'm good, I'm good. How are you?
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Interviewer/Host
Popak?
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Karen Freeman McNiff
I think the World cup is so exciting. It's bringing countries together. It's making me excited to watch football. I'm now calling it just because we're watching it. It's just such an exciting time to that distraction.
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Michael Popok
Actually, 2002 is when I discovered the, the sport of football as it is known worldwide. I mean, I knew of it, but I happened to move. I was in Miami and I went to that World cup and I never experienced, you know, worlds colliding and national pride until a buddy of mine who's still very good friends with a lawyer in town named Ben, not, not Ben myself, another Ben said, hey, what are you doing today? I'm like, oh, what are you doing? Because you want to come watch a World cup game with a bunch of my friends? I said, yeah. He says. I said, it's England versus Brazil. I said, oh, that sounds like a great game. So he says, all right, I'll 2:00am at the, the pub on South Beach. I was living in Miami at the time again, and I said, what 2am so I go to this place. It is packed to the rafters, mainly with Brits but a couple of secret Brazilians that popped out later when Brazil won And I got totally hooked on the energy, the enthusiasm. You know, I, when, when the US Isn't doing well, I have a team that I follow. I'm like an Argentine. I don't get a lot of grief here. I'm like an Argentina fan. Been, been for a long time. But it is great. And you know, it's also great. It's like a Trump free zone. It's been a Trump free zone. I haven't seen him. I don't give a shit what he, what he, what he says, you know, these are athletes on a pitch who are just working their ass off for, for national pride and otherwise. And I don't give a shit about the President.
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Karen Freeman McNiff
Yeah, it's, it's really exciting. And you know, soccer, football, whatever you want to call it, is such an exciting sport. And I, I did a semester abroad in England many, many moons ago and went to several of their soccer matches. And it's just, it's so exciting. And to watch sort of the best players from each country come together, it's like the Olympics, you know, it's. You put politics aside and you are there about the sport and the athletes and about what's good about every country and not about whoever their particular leader happens to be at the time or what their politics are. It's, it's a really, it's an exciting time.
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Interviewer/Host
Yeah.
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Michael Popok
But even, even this administration can't put aside its anti ethnic, anti anti racial white supremacy, white nationalist, you know, posturing, you know, Mark Wayne Mullen, you know, the current version of Kristi Noem, but wearing a pair of pants, you know, when Iran lost and Iran, they're not the Revolutionary Guard. Okay. They're a bunch of soccer players.
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Karen Freeman McNiff
Exactly right.
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Michael Popok
And they would shuttled in and out of America, you know, Tijuana, and really put through the mill, they weren't allowed
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Karen Freeman McNiff
to sleep in the United States.
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Michael Popok
Ridiculous. And they left, they left a note in their locker room in California in which they thanked, hoping somebody would find it, in which they thanked the American people, they thanked the organizers, they talked about all that's right in sport and why they do it. And it was, and somebody found it and it was publicized. But then when they lost, Mark Wayne Mullen says out loud, I did a little dance when the Iranians lost, because now they're out of the country. I'm like, do you understand what international sport competition, like the Olympics, World cup, it's really appalling, right?
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Karen Freeman McNiff
It really is. And for those, for those people who don't know Tijuana is Actually the border town in Mexico that borders, it borders California and they were making them stay there in Mexico because they weren't allowed to sleep in the United States when they were playing. I mean, it's so offensive and so appalling.
- [10:23]
Michael Popok
You know, they shouldn't be allowed. If we're going to host like that. We shouldn't be allowed to host. You're not going to be with the spirit, like in the Olympics if you're going to be like, nope, we're not going to let, no, no, no, I'm going to inject politics into it or your white nationalist, you know, policies. You shouldn't be allowed to host.
- [10:39]
Karen Freeman McNiff
Right. The Iranian soccer players are no more responsible for their regime than, you know, then I was going to say than we are for Donald Trump, but I don't know about that because we elected him. But you know, they're just athletes, right? They're just people trying to, trying to play football and it's just, it's not right.
- [10:57]
Michael Popok
Yeah. And the other nice little story that's come out of it about America, as we reach into our national pride here for a minute as we head into the long three day weekend, the 250th birthday. I remember the 200th. The 200th. You do too. That was, I was a lot of fun. I didn't really think where I'd be 50 years later, but here I am. I was collecting a lot of bicentennial coins at the time.
- [11:23]
Karen Freeman McNiff
I know, I know, exactly.
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Michael Popok
That was a lot of fun. But these other cities, other than the big ones that have been hosting the games, have really embraced the worldwide athletes that have come to town, whatever games that have been assigned to Greensboro, North Carolina. I mean, they've really, there's been this love affair between, right. The fans, the athletes from all these different countries and these small towns, smaller towns that have been hosting the games. That's a beauty of, that is a beauty of America.
- [11:56]
Karen Freeman McNiff
It's true. And where they've been practicing too. They've been practicing in fields that are some of them 100 miles away from where they're actually playing. And these are small towns with maybe a university field. And it's just these small towns are really rolling out the red carpet for these players and loving it and just loving having them there. And it's just been great.
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Michael Popok
I was coming back from. Was it a business trip I was coming back from? I was just recently coming back. Oh, no, we were coming back from a trip to Montreal. I never saw the Scottish team and fans were passing through the Miami airport on the way to somewhere. I never saw so many men in kilts in one location. I've never been to Scotland, so maybe that's what it's like. But yeah, it's, it's, it's really, it's really a one. And I'm in Miami and you're in New York where there's so many different ethnic groups and so many different aspects of national pride that, you know, we just have these huge screens all over town, you know, at lunch, because the games are perfectly, perfectly timed for the American audience. It's like 12, 4, 8, you know, it's like lunch, snap, beer, you know, dinner, you know, or whatever. So it's been really great. Okay, so that's the World Cup. Now let's turn to something that's you and I've been following since day one, which is E. Jean Carroll. N 1996, she proved to it, she proved to a jury that in 1996 she was sexually abused in a dressing room at a department store. You and I know well, on fifth Avenue, caddy corner from Trump Tower. The women's department of Bergdorf Goodman started out as playful banter because she knew Donald Trump ended up him using his full body weight to push her through a door in a dressing room and sexually abuse her. That's what a nine person jury said. And then he defamed her. He's still defaming her. We'll get to that in a minute. But that's what happened. She brings the lawsuit, she brings witnesses with her. Judge Kaplan presides in federal court, Southern district of New York. And after a several week trial, Donald Trump did not testify into the first time about him defaming her after he was president and denying that he even knew her. And the jury awarded her $5 million. Now running with interest, I think it's 5.7 million. Then there's a second trial right about because it got tied up in appeals about him defaming her when he was President of the United States. And that jury, after he testified and basically insulted everybody in that room with his behavior, came back with an $83 million, 83 and a half million dollar judgment against him. Now almost 90 million with interest. So she's been trying it for almost
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Sponsor Announcer
three and a half years.
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Michael Popok
She's been trying to collect on these judgments. And Donald Trump's tried everything in his power. Why don't you talk about what the Supreme Court did and then we can talk about what Robbie Kaplan on behalf of E. Jean Carroll did in the last 24 hours.
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Legal Analyst
Yeah.
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Karen Freeman McNiff
So Trump decided to try to appeal this decision, and he's been appealing it all the way up to the United States Supreme Court. And they, they, not a single justice voted to grant certiorari, which means they're not going to hear the case. So I guess you could call that unanimous because nobody dissented. And that essentially what they said, what that means is the case is not worthy of their consideration. It doesn't pose a constitutional question or a federal question or anything that they see that's cert worthy. And so they denied cert. And that puts finality on the case. I mean, I suppose Trump can because he said he might consider asking them to reconsider, but that just seems so far fetched that there wasn't even a single dissent that they would do that. But it really does put finality on this issue. And Robby Kaplan filed a motion that basically asked the judge, also named Kaplan, not to be confused, not related, just two Kaplans. She's E. Jean Carroll's lawyer, that said, essentially, pay the money now. And Judge Kaplan issued an order way back when, essentially saying when all the appeals have been exhausted, including the United States Supreme Court, then the money gets released. And so she has now issued this or filed this filing basically saying that give us our money and a final outcome in the case entitles us to collect. And so there should be nothing standing in the way of her getting her money. So I anticipate that the judge will issue an order releasing the money. Whether Trump can appeal that or somehow block that, who knows what he'll do? But she should get her money. I mean, it's ridiculous because I would assume she needs this money to continue fighting him since he continues to defame her. And her lawyers need to get paid too. Right. You know, this has been a long time since they've been waiting, waiting to get paid. So. So she should be getting her money soon, hopefully. You know, and that's what you said, with interest. It's like $5.7 million. It's a lot of money.
- [17:25]
Michael Popok
Yeah. And so Robbie Kaplan filed her motion. She said that they're not agreeing to pay, that they say they may file a motion to reconsider. The Supreme Court considered that petition 13 times in prior conferences before they rejected it. And as I only half. It's not even a joke. I just observed. It's a pretty sad day for Trump when he can't even get two justices who themselves were accused of sex abuse or sex harassment in their lifetimes. Kavanaugh and Thomas to issue a dissent. So they're not going to reconsider it. It's just another delaying tactic. But it gets worse because he, Trump, in the last 24 hours, has defamed her again.
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Sponsor Announcer
Not only has he defamed her again
- [18:11]
Michael Popok
and said, I don't know the woman, she's trying to shake me down. But he went so far as to say, this isn't a case about me, Karen. He said, this is a case about the United States of America. No, the United States of America didn't sexually abuse Eugene Carroll.
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Sponsor Announcer
You did.
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Michael Popok
And the fact that he would even say that. And then he raised the issue about the. The photo because he knows that that was a major, A major turning point in the case when he said his big defense was for sexual abuse, was, I wouldn't sexually abuse her. She's not my type. Which is, of course, not a defense. It's just disgusting. And then when Robbie Kaplan, during the deposition and then a trial, pulled out a photo, sh. And the. So I interviewed her. The sole purpose for bringing out the
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Sponsor Announcer
photo was for her to show that
- [19:01]
Michael Popok
they had met in the past, that he didn't know her, that there was this photo now infamous, of Trump along with his wife at the time, Ivana, meeting and laughing with Eugene Carroll and
- [19:17]
Sponsor Announcer
her then husband, Jay.
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Michael Popok
John Johnson, you remember John Johnson, Karen, from wabc, who was her husband. And they're laughing. And when they. She brought that photo into the deposition without telling Trump that it was coming to catch him off guard and say, well, let me show you a photo. And he looked at it, and then we have the clip. We played the clip before. And he says, all right, I haven't seen this in a while. Let me take a look at this. All right, so that's me, Marla. Now, he has said that, Trump, that E. Jean Carroll is not his type. He mistook E. Jean Carroll for Marla Maples, his other wife. So Trump thought he had two wives in the photo, one being Ivana and the other Marla. It wasn't Marla. It was E. Jean Carroll. And you hear in the video clip Alina Haba correcting.
- [20:08]
Karen Freeman McNiff
Yeah.
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Michael Popok
Coaching him. Yeah, that's. That's Carol. Well, that's Carol. Oh, it's a. It's an unclear photo.
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Karen Freeman McNiff
Trust me, it's not an unclear photo. It's crystal clear.
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Michael Popok
It's crystal clear. All right. And so that's on tape.
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Karen Freeman McNiff
That's on tape. So there's no exaggeration for. And there's no, like, misinterpretation.
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Michael Popok
And they played it at trial. And he can't. He can't let it go. So in his social media post, he references a photo of me on a celebrity line. Doesn't count. Oh, you mean the one where you mistook her for Mara Maples? I mean, which was even a gift that Robbie Kaplan didn't even believe was going to happen. So end result, I think, Louis, I think if Judge Kaplan by tomorrow morning doesn't order Donald Trump to respond to that filing by maybe Friday or Monday, I'd be shocked. And I think after seeing that she's continuing to be bashed instead of getting her money. What do you think, Karen? Early next week, there's an order for the clerk to turn over the 5.7 million?
- [21:13]
Karen Freeman McNiff
I sure hope so.
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Michael Popok
I think so. And then people ask, what about the other money? What about the 90 million? So again, he's threw in another petition which hasn't been ruled upon to get the Supreme Court. That one has an immunity angle, kind of a double immunity angle. You know, he wants to argue that he's got federal employee immunity.
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Karen Freeman McNiff
The Westfall Act.
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Michael Popok
The Westfall Act. Westfall immunity.
- [21:36]
Sponsor Announcer
So that the government should be.
- [21:38]
Michael Popok
Should. He should come out of the case and it should be the United States of America as the defendant, as if we sexually abused her. And therefore. And there'd be a sovereign immunity and she wouldn't be able to collect. Failing that, they're also arguing that the 2nd Circuit was wrong to rule that Alina Haba waived the argument of presidential immunity, arguing that it's almost not wavable. Now, presidential immunity is for criminal acts, not for civil acts. And so I'm not sure. Karen, what do you think? You think there's five votes like you think. You think Amy Coney Barrett is going to give Donald Trump criminal immunity or immunity from sexually abusing aging Carroll?
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Karen Freeman McNiff
I don't think that she'll go that far, no. But I do think, as you just pointed out, that this other case has this other aspect to it that the case that they denied CERT does not have. And that's because he was president at the time that he made the comments at the time that he defamed her. And so typically, if you are a federal employee and you are acting within the scope of your employment, you. You can't be sued for that, for things like defamation. And that's what the Westfall act is and Westfall immunity. And he's gonna argue this was within the scope of my presidential duties to defame E. Jean Carroll and deny that I'm a rapist. So who knows? With the Supreme Court, it shouldn't even be an issue. This shouldn't rise to the level of Supreme Court worthy. This should not, in my opinion, even come close to the line. But as we've seen with the Supreme Court, when it comes to Donald Trump and expanding authority and letting him have a lot of leeway to do a lot of really bad things, that looks like what they are trying to do. So this one does have this added argument that is different and distinguishes it from this other Eugene Carroll case that she better get her money because he is not stopping defaming her.
- [23:47]
Sponsor Announcer
I tried to get Robby and Eugene
- [23:49]
Michael Popok
on, but they respectfully declined until they're through all this litigation process, which of course I don't believe them. And I wrote back and I said, well, as soon as she gets all of her money, I'd love for you to come on and brief her audience. Hopefully that'll be happening in the very near future. You're on Legal AF the Podcast. It's Mondays. Where am I? It's Wednesdays and Saturdays at 8pm Eastern time. And there's one way you can help us as we lead into our Fourth of July weekend is is to increase our audio downloads for the Legal AF podcast. So you may be w look at that new pop up. You may be only watching us on YouTube or you may only know us about about about us on audio. But if you're a YouTuber, come over to audio. Just download or subscribe. That's enough. Gets the job done and really helps us out in many many ways. The other ways to support what we do is to come over to Legalif YouTube channel where we've just crossed 1.12 million subscribers. We just had our best 48 hour period because of our listeners and their fervent support. Over 5 million views in a 48 hour period and some tremendous content there you can't find anywhere else. So take a moment and subscribe and help us build our Pro democracy channel on Legal AF YouTube channel Legal AF substack whole nother community is also a fantastic way to support what we're doing there. We got about 10 or 12 new pieces of content there, some fantastic writing by some of our contributors and collaborators. I do a live every day which is kind of up to the minute, up to the second. Sometimes I do it with a guest like Adam Glassfeld of All Rise News or Dina Dahl or you know, Don Lemon joins occasionally, things like that. So we always have something special going on on Legal Layoff substack and then the other way to support what we do is we've got sponsors. If Jordi works on Karen, me and Ben, we use all these items and if you've got some disposable income, I know it's hard in this economy and you want to support what we do. We think these products are of interest. So we're going to take a quick break and when we come back, we'll talk about what happened at the Pentagon. Transgender people under attack again. And I want to touch on birthright citizenship. All on Legal AF at the midweek
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- [28:21]
Michael Popok
AF at the midweek. Thank you for supporting our sponsors and all that we do here on the Midas Touch Network and on Legal. So, Karen, you got Judge Friedman third time around. Second time around, he issued a new order in the last 24 hours about the attempt by Pete Heath and the Department of Defense to block reporters from doing their job like Julian Barnes, the New York Times not letting them walk around freely and bump into people to do reporting in the Pentagon, which is the world's largest office building at 9 like 6 million feet square feet and making them make appointments and be escorted around the building. And it's impacting the way you first, you know, it's impacting the First Amendment, the Fifth Amendment rights, the Administrative Procedures act and everything else. And so they brought a new, a new lawsuit challenging specifically the escort rule, which is inhibiting their ability to do their journalistic, their job.
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Sponsor Announcer
And the judge issued his ruling.
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Michael Popok
And what I found fascinating about the ruling, which is up on Legal AF substack, is that the judge spends a fair amount of time because he feels he has to to prove retaliation as part of the preliminary injunction for, for the exercise of First Amendment rights. He's got to talk a lot about the bad behavior of Pete Hegseth. So he has a whole section about the reason Pete Hegseth is retaliating against the New York Times in the press because he doesn't like what the New York Times and others did to embarrass, in his view, embarrass him about his public drunk, you know, allegations of public drinking, infidelity in his marriage, complete incompetence for the job, you know, whether he lost money at a prior, at a prior couple of positions, you know, and running those organizations. And to pay them back, he's blocked the door to bar the press from doing their job. He even outlines in there what happened on the Signal app about the, the
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Sponsor Announcer
strikes in Yemen being being revealed by
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Michael Popok
the Atlantic magazine because they were included in the, in the Signal chat. So it's a whole set of this
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Sponsor Announcer
is the reason that Pete Hegseth has
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Michael Popok
issued this policy to retaliate against the New York Times. What did you make of the new decision?
- [30:44]
Karen Freeman McNiff
First of all, nothing like making a one day story into a five day story. Trump administration and Pete Hegseth giving them an opportunity to rewrite in their legal filings all of the things why Pete Hegseth is retaliating against him because he wrote about his drunkenness and his infidelity and all that stuff and then letting the judge then rule and put that in his decision. I mean, he's just amplifying it. Like, if I'm the reporter, I'd be like, this is great. My story keeps getting written over and over and over again, and the Trump administration just loves to do that. I mean, for people who haven't been to the Pentagon, and I happen to have been to the Pentagon, this is massive. It's not a building. It's like a city. And it's not like a building that you can just close the door and turn off the lights and go home. This is, as you said, it's like 6 million square feet, this thing. It's literally like walking into a public place. And it is a public place, because guess who owns it? The American people. Not Pete Hegseth. And there are all sorts of people who work there, not just top secret government employees. You've got all sorts of, you know, you've got restaurants in there, you've got a barber shop in there. You've got, you know, people are in there doing all sorts of jobs and things, because people spend a lot of time there, and there are lots of people who go in there. And to have a special rule for a particular reporter or for reporters, which is what this administration has tried to do, to basically say reporters, unlike others, who can go and walk around in there and who can visit certain areas, you can't. Of course, certain areas are more secure than others. But to say that you have to be escorted or to be in a certain location is really preposterous and really doesn't allow reporters to do their job and to essentially shine daylight on the things that are happening there. And what was interesting about this was this was a preliminary injunction that Judge Friedman issued against the Department of Defense, finding that this rule against Julian Barnes for reporting on Hegseth and all of his, you know, whatever he does, all his shenanigans, essentially was retaliation. And it was retaliation because he didn't like what he was reporting. And the thing that was stunning to me about this, about this ruling, this preliminary injunction ruling, was that the judge said, I am not going to apply the presumption of regularity that normally has been afforded to the government by courts, which essentially says, we're going to presume that the government is acting in good faith whenever there's some dispute with the government, whether it's a prosecutor in a criminal case or an agency in some other cases. There's been this concept in the law known as the presumption of, of regularity, which presumes that the government acts in good Faith unless you can show them otherwise. And here this judge said, I am not applying the presumption of regularity to this administration because we've seen too many times that this has been violated. And essentially, I'm not giving it to you here. He's not the first judge who has found this, by the way. Many judges across the country have said this same thing, which is the government, this particular administration, is not entitled to this presumption of regularity. So I thought that was yet another reminder of how much the courts no longer trust this administration because they have seen so many instances, both in court filings, but also just in how they do their business of underhandedness, not telling the truth, not being forthcoming, and also just violating people's rights. So this is kind of, I think, a big deal. It essentially is saying with a preliminary injunction, there's several factors that they have to make out. One of them is that the plaintiff is likely to succeed on the merits when the case is ultimately done, and that they would face irreparable harm, and that there's a strong public interest. And of course, here there is a strong public interest because the New York Times has to do their job. And so I thought this was a really important decision because it underscores the importance of the First Amendment. It really reaffirms the importance of really what reporters bring to the table in terms of keeping government honest and how important that is for the American people. But also just in the rebuke of this administration and showing that this was retaliatory because Hegseth didn't like the story. So for many reasons, I thought this was a really interesting and kind of stunning preliminary injunction by. By Judge Friedman.
- [35:57]
Michael Popok
Yeah, I. I totally agree with you
- [35:58]
Sponsor Announcer
and your point about the.
- [36:00]
Michael Popok
I can't give you the presumption of regularity anymore because of the history of this lawless and unconstitutional administration. I think is. Was definitely a key point for me in that decision. Those who want to read the full decision, come over to Legal AF Substack, where we have posted it under, I think, filings af. So not the last we've heard. You know, we've done. We've covered a lot of stories about the press suing the Trump administration over a violation of their First Amendment rights. You know, I just interviewed Programming Note. I just interviewed Brendan Ballou, who's with Public Integrity Project, who represented our friend and fellow independent commentator and journalist Katie Fang, and his. And their successful win. And there was so much insider stuff that you wouldn't be able to Pick up from the docket or from the, even from Judge Sullivan's decision that Brendan shares with our audience, you're going to find it really, really, really, really fascinating. It's up now on Legal AF YouTube channel. And again, another example of the press fighting back in courts and obtaining relief.
- [37:15]
Karen Freeman McNiff
And that was, that was the, the Jeffrey Epstein, that was the Epstein files, the Epstein Transparency act, right?
- [37:21]
Michael Popok
Yeah. And now, you know, as we're going to find out tomorrow, if they're going to comply with Judge Sullivan in the, in Katie Fangs case and they have to buy tomorrow, tell him that they've started translating all the foreign language documents that they just looked at and said, yeah, we don't need to translate those. Right. You know, in an international child sex trafficking ring, you don't have to translate foreign language documents. Okay. Documents about a torture video and about Donald Trump's accuser who said she was 13 years old and sexually abused. That needs, they need to be provided. And a, and a redaction log. Like why are there 200,000 pages, 200,000 pages of redaction. What's under there? And what's the privilege or the purpose that you are redacting? None of that was provided. Those are the things they went after in the lawsuit. And they either have to rip off the redaction or they have to show cause tomorrow why they're not going to do that and why they can't do that. And so tomorrow is a big red letter day. It was very interesting though, the reason that I was caught a little bit flat footed when the decision came down, my phone blew up. Like, did you Katie, Katie, she won. Did you see Kate? I'm like, Katie won her, she has an oral argument, a hearing on 30 June, which was penciled on my calendar.
- [38:39]
Sponsor Announcer
Oh, no.
- [38:40]
Michael Popok
The judge heard enough that by the time that the Department of Justice missed a deadline that he had set for them to respond to a new argument that had been raised or an argument that had been raised about Freedom of Information act in which because the government kept arguing, she doesn't need, she doesn't need the Epstein Transparency Act. She can get everything through foia. Except they had examples that they supply to the judge when, whenever somebody made a FOIA submission, the government said, oh, we're not going to comply with that. See the Epstein Transparency Act. The judge gave, upon that filing, the judge gave the Department of Justice half a day, Karen, until one o' clock the next day to respond. Okay.
- [39:24]
Sponsor Announcer
They didn't respond at all.
- [39:25]
Michael Popok
They missed the deadline and the next day he issued a 48 page decision.
- [39:31]
Karen Freeman McNiff
Wow.
- [39:31]
Michael Popok
Yeah.
- [39:33]
Karen Freeman McNiff
That's not just a win. That's a big win.
- [39:35]
Michael Popok
That's a big win.
- [39:36]
Karen Freeman McNiff
That's huge.
- [39:37]
Michael Popok
He said Todd Blanche conceded by not opposing conceded that he violated the Epstein Transparency Act. Wow, that's going to be great when he's wait for the confirmation hearing on the 15th of July. Right. That's required watching on legal layoff YouTube. So I want to talk about the transgender case and I want to talk let's touch on birthright citizenship first and save transgender for last. So you've got closer than I thought it was going to be. Frankly, I thought worst case scenario, 7 to 2, Alito and Thomas certainly in the bag. But the rest would say no 14th amendment in the the promise of the 14th amendment is all about you're born in the United States, doesn't matter who your parents are and you get a blue passport effectively. And I'm like Gorsuch. Gorsuch is over on the, on the no side. So Roberts writes the majority opinion, flowery language about the right to have rights and it stretches back to the 1650s and English common law and American common
- [40:44]
Sponsor Announcer
law, the divine right.
- [40:45]
Michael Popok
And it's literally an ordinance from heaven. This is how he writes it, right? All his flowery powdered wig and quill pen language by John Roberts, the guy that's busy taking away rights of the very same people because he talks about slavery and black Americans in other decisions like the Voting Rights Act.
- [41:06]
Sponsor Announcer
Where's that Roberts then?
- [41:08]
Michael Popok
But be that as it may, he writes it, he gets the six votes. He gets Amy Coney Barrett to join him, Tanji Brown Jackson and the rest. Then there's a fight that breaks out between Katanji Brown Jackson who takes on Clarence Thomas about black history and about, about black slavery and the Dred Scott decision and what you can legitimately take out of history. And she, she schools Thomas the way that only Katanji Brown Jackson can in her, in her concurrence. So all of that happens.
- [41:41]
Sponsor Announcer
Right.
- [41:43]
Michael Popok
And you've seen what's happened since with the Trump administration, right, Karen?
- [41:47]
Karen Freeman McNiff
Yeah. They're trying to get Congress to pass a law to, you know, pass. I don't know, I'm at a loss for words. Because there is no law that you can pass to prevent this because it's in the Constitution.
- [42:02]
Michael Popok
And now gloss over that, don't gloss over that. We have a president of the United States who thinks that after the Supreme Court interprets, finally, I think for the next hundred years, the meeting of the 14th Amendment in our Constitution that Congress can pass a law to override it. That's shocking.
- [42:25]
Karen Freeman McNiff
It is shocking.
- [42:25]
Michael Popok
And he believes that.
- [42:27]
Karen Freeman McNiff
Well, it's shocking that he believes it and it's shocking that he wants it to be honest. I mean, it's just the whole thing is bizarre to me. But I'm sure the other thing that's shocking is Stephen Miller is now saying that, okay, we'll just change immigration policy so that pregnant people can't travel to the United States. I mean, what are you going to do, have pregnancy tests at the border now? I mean, that's what I'm wondering. You go through TSA lines and you have to go through immigration. Are they going to make women take pregnancy? I'm serious.
- [43:01]
Michael Popok
Like, I have a joke that I have to say. They're not going to make.
- [43:04]
Sponsor Announcer
They'll have one line and two lines.
- [43:09]
Michael Popok
No pregnancy test. No.
- [43:10]
Karen Freeman McNiff
All right. No, I get it, I get it. It's very funny. That's very funny. Yeah, definitely a joke given by someone who has a young.
- [43:22]
Michael Popok
Has a two year old daughter.
- [43:23]
Karen Freeman McNiff
Yes, exactly.
- [43:25]
Michael Popok
People know what we're talking about.
- [43:27]
Sponsor Announcer
Hold on, everybody.
- [43:28]
Michael Popok
You get the vomit bag if you're on a plane. We're going to play Stephen Miller trotted out by the administration on the friendly confines of the Jesse Waters show on Fox talking about pregnant women that in a way that a person that looks and sounds and acts like Stephen Miller should never be talking about pregnant women. Play it.
- [43:51]
Interviewer/Host
But if you have birthright citizenship, it means if a person comes here and nine months pregnant to go look around at some things in a couple of weeks, that is the mother of a lifetime American citizen and a direct line into American cash and welfare for the rest of that child's life. So you have to. Are we banning pregnant women from America? Are we banning foreign pregnant women? Well, what I'm saying, Jesse, is that you have to now think they're carefully about who you let into your country, even on a temporary basis, because the possibility, as you said, for birth tourism, Right. The idea that people come here just to have babies on American soil and that baby gets to be a citizen for life. So you have mothers that come in fully pregnant, have a baby, go home, and again, that baby gets Medicaid and that baby gets welfare and that baby gets cash assistance and can send, you know, leave the baby with, you know, a cousin, a relative, whatever, and then to send welfare checks back home, you can support a whole family in the third world. So, yes, you can't have the kinds of immigration programs other countries have. When you can just have a.
- [45:01]
Karen Freeman McNiff
It's so offensive on so many levels. I mean it's just he, I really do think honestly he might be the most evil person in the entire administration.
- [45:10]
Michael Popok
First of all, maybe Salty can put it back up. Just the snapshot of it, the B roll that they ran alongside that story of people at the wall. This is not first of all birth tourism. Are people flying in, by the way,
- [45:30]
Sponsor Announcer
they're not sneaking in pregnant.
- [45:32]
Michael Popok
And it's not a problem. I just had Cody Wofsi from the ACLU as part of their immigration rights project. The percentage of actual birth tourism in this country is like infinitesimal. It's in the hundreds out of 330 million people. But they always pick out some
- [45:54]
Sponsor Announcer
non
- [45:54]
Michael Popok
issue to use to drive the policy debate, right? Cats and dogs being eaten by Haitians. Got to get rid of all the Haitians with a TPS ruling. You know, every, everybody, everybody that comes to this country is trying to have a baby here. Because I got news for him. Nobody wants to come to this country right now. Immigrant, legal, lawful immigration is down by millions and millions of people. Tourism is down equally, people applying for H1B visas down because nobody wants to be in the Trump, Trump America.
- [46:28]
Karen Freeman McNiff
You know, the other thing too is Stephen Miller. Everything he said was offensive. He thinks that people, that these are people who are going to collect welfare, these are people who are going to, you know, get benefits. Guess what? These are also people who are going to pay taxes eventually.
- [46:43]
Michael Popok
Like when you are millions of dollars of tax.
- [46:46]
Karen Freeman McNiff
Yes, exactly. Like, like to be a citizen means you have to pay taxes for the rest of your life no matter where you live. Right. I mean it's, it's really that he just really looks at people who come to this country, unless you're a white South African as being someone who's not productive citizen, someone who's not worth being here, someone who's just going to collect welfare, etc. He's just so offensive and so out of touch and I just, I can't believe how awful that is to say to, to the millions and millions of immigrants in this country who are some of the most wonderful people in this country and the most productive people in this country. And guess what? You know, you have a love affair with Elon Musk. He wasn't born here, you know, and he doesn't pay taxes here either, really, so. Or that's kind of a joke. I don't know what he does, but you know, it's a really offensive claim to make about about immigrants in this country. And I hope nobody takes the bait. And I hope Fox News really stops parroting this birth tourism. That's not really a problem.
- [47:57]
Michael Popok
Absolutely. I'm glad we covered. We covered that. When we come back, we're going to talk about the transgender ruling. You know, probably one of the most disenfranchised, fragile groups of people in America. I don't know if it's half of a 1%, but whatever it is, it's a group that deserves protection and civil rights and civil liberties. And yet this United States Supreme Court just continues to make them non non people in America. And it's saddening and it's maddening. And we will discuss it along with some other thoughts on the Legal AF podcast. You're here at the midweek Karen Freeman McNiffalo and Michael Popo. So many different ways to support what we do. One of them is the help us here with downloads and five star reviews over on the audio version of this. There it is. Download, download, download is the right way to put it for Legal A after podcast, come over to legal a after YouTube channel and help us continue to grow. That great opportunity get us to 2 million subscribers for the long weekend. That would be extraordinary. If just 10% of the people that watch our videos became our our subscribers.
- [49:09]
Sponsor Announcer
We'd already be in the brothers neighborhood.
- [49:11]
Michael Popok
So let's try to make that happen. Legal AF substack. We're doing another 10 or so pieces of content every day, including lives, posting all of our filings and orders and all of our court cases on Legal AF Substack. And then I've got a special point here to raise. I was celebrating yesterday. Karen knows about it. We launched the brand new very spiffy, very sexy website for the POPOC firm. There it is. And if you have been injured in an accident or your world's been turned upside down and you need top notch fighters in your corner, you're going to want to come to the POPOC firm and all the people I have assembled or around the country in collaboration with Big Auto to take on your case. And so we have it up there and go check out the new website. I take constructive criticism. Let me know what you think about it. I think you're going to like it. And all the videos are there too. All my Legal AF work is there, all in one place on the POPOC firm website. And then we've got our pro democracy sponsors. So we're going to take a break for them now and here and here's our break.
- [50:22]
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Michael Popok
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- [52:29]
Michael Popok
welcome back to Legal AF. At the midweek, Karen, I wanted to talk about the transgender ruling penned by Judge Kavanaugh. Six to three. Really heartless and heartbreaking. You especially have been doing a lot of reporting from the very beginning about the transgender community. Whether it's the cases about their use of what bathroom that they want to use, how they're identified on a passport, what rights they have in the workplace and you know when one of the. As we let off our podcast and I talk about the World cup, one of the nice things about being a human being is to be able to have interaction with other human beings in sport and people that have changed their sexual identity, usually either surgically or medically or pharmaceutically or whatever it is, and identify a different way than their birth sex, they still want to play sport. You know, whether you're a 12 year old girl that wants to play soccer or play track and field, whatever, it's, it's, you don't want to be excluded from that. And there are no transgender leagues. It's not like, well, you're a transgender man, you play against other transgender men. And many of these people took puberty blockers and different things that make them virtually identical, if you want, in terms of things to, to biological people of the same sex. Yet the Supreme Court just found another way to, to deprive them of some of the joys of being and dignity of being a human being.
- [54:05]
Karen Freeman McNiff
Yeah, this was really a not surprising but extremely disappointing ruling about two different state laws, one in West Virginia, one in Idaho. Two different cases that they held that they heard at the same time and ruled together. And essentially what the ruling said was that Title ix, which is the congressionally passed statute that allows for or creates women sports rights and leagues and teams, et cetera, girls and women, and equal protection clause doesn't require, neither of those, require that trans athletes be allowed to play on girls teams. And so that's the bottom line ruling. And the cases were slightly different because one of the plaintiffs did have puberty blockers and hormone blockers, and therefore their body had not gone through the male hormone, the things that typically give male athletes the reasoning behind this, which is that they are faster, according to Judge Kavanaugh, and bigger and taller and stronger and all those things. And so the ruling was disappointing. Justice Sotomayor, along with Justice Kagan and Ketanji Brown Jackson, wrote dissent that says, you know, the majority extends great sympathy to those it favors, the young cisgender girls and women who play sports. I share that sympathy. But playing sports can lead to benefits that are immeasurable, and many are understandably invested in ensuring that competition stays fair and safe, because the majority, however, inflicts a hardship on those it disfavors without giving them the fair and full opportunity the Constitution requires to litigate their contentions. We dissent. So it was pretty powerful language. And, you know, the reasoning is neither here nor there, but they basically say this is more of a policy debate. It's not a constitutional protection that this can be legislated. This is something that the Constitution does not require that they be allowed to play on girls teams. But if through policy and legislation, states and local governments or the federal government wants to pass laws, you know that, that's where, that's how you do it, not through the Constitution. And that's, that's where it kind of the bottom line of, of where these decisions fall. And you know, it's just, it's just so disappointing for the, as you said, the, the, the small number of, but really important young girls who are trans girls who want to play in sports and, and really, and you know, they want to play not on a boys team, not, not because they're trying to find an unfair advantage because they're girls and that's, that's who they are. And so they want to be with girls. And it's just, just really upsetting and frustrating. And you know, I asked my two daughters, have 29 year old identical twin daughters and I asked them their opinion about this because, you know, obviously they're girls and you know, they've, they've played sports. And I asked them what they thought and, and they, they said that first of all, they were absolutely appalled by, by the decision. And they said, you know, it doesn't make any sense because their sport has always been competitive horseback riding. And they said we've always had to compete against men or boys and sometimes they won and sometimes they were better than us. But you know what my response was? I went and I trained harder and I worked harder and I got better and then I beat them. It was just an interesting perspective when you don't have these sort of divisions and you compete against boys. To them, they just thought this, this just doesn't make any sense that you would worry about that. And then they said stuff like there's all kinds of biological advantages in sports. Look at basketball, look at Wemby, you know, he's seven foot, whatever, and you know, he has an advantage and no one's preventing him from playing with the other basketball players. You know that this is, this is so specifically discriminatory against trans people. Because, you know, they told me about Michael Phelps, who apparently I didn't know this has some issue, biological issue that prevents him from having lactic acid buildup and he has more lung capacity. All this stuff that they knew about athletes that have these physical competitive advantages. And of course they mentioned Secretariat, which was the horse that still holds the all time record for the race, that Secretariat Ran because Secretariat had a bigger heart. And sometimes there are biological advantages. But. But that. But the only thing that, that this, this decision does is it doesn't account for biological differences that many people have in the same sport. This is all about discriminating against trans people. Period. Full stop. There's no. Because if you. If you really wanted to make things fair about physical abilities and size, you would have weight classes like you do in boxing, for example, you know, and that's how you would do it. You would make it fair. You wouldn't just make it based on something like your gender that you identify as or what you were born as. And so I thought it was a really interesting, helpful perspective that really shows how this is so completely targeted and discriminatory against trans people. And again, not a surprising ruling for the Supreme Court and an extremely disappointing one, nonetheless.
- [60:18]
Michael Popok
Absolutely. Is that all it takes to win the Kentucky Derby?
- [60:21]
Sponsor Announcer
A big heart.
- [60:22]
Michael Popok
You'd win the Kentucky Derby?
- [60:24]
Karen Freeman McNiff
Well, it's not that. Just that. It's not just that Secretary won one. It's that won by so many. Like, you know, it's.
- [60:32]
Michael Popok
Anyway, he was an outlier.
- [60:33]
Karen Freeman McNiff
He was an outlier because he had. Because of this.
- [60:37]
Sponsor Announcer
Another thing you and I have in
- [60:38]
Michael Popok
common besides the bicentennial that we celebrated as children. You and I Remember Secretariat in 1973. Right.
- [60:46]
Sponsor Announcer
Winning all the. I do.
- [60:47]
Michael Popok
I was a big secretary. I mean, I was a. As a kid. Of course, I grew up in a horse racing town like I grew up in. People know I grew up on the Jersey Shore, so. And my. My grandfather was a. In the family. Was a notorious horse guy. He always had a. The Daily race. He always had the daily Daily Racing form in the back pocket. And to his credit, he never took me and had a good relationship with my grandfather. He never took me to the track, but he often went to the track. He always thought he had a system. He didn't really have a system. He lost a lot. That's all I really know. But we. I grew up near Monmouth park, which is on the Jersey shore. It's still there. Great track. And there was Freehold Raceway that had. Remember harness racing?
- [61:31]
Karen Freeman McNiff
Yeah.
- [61:31]
Michael Popok
It's like they're all sports edition of Legal af harness racing. A sitting little thing, the Trotters. So this was all.
- [61:37]
Karen Freeman McNiff
And then we had Trotters and Pacers. They still have that in Yonkers, too. In New York. Yeah.
- [61:41]
Michael Popok
And there's a town near me that Bruce Springsteen lives in called Colt's Neck.
- [61:46]
Sponsor Announcer
A lot of horse farms.
- [61:47]
Michael Popok
And it's a Horsey. It's a horsey area. So I grew up, I liked horses. And so when I was a kid, I was like seven or eight when Secretariat was in his prime. And so I fell in love with, with that whole. I know there's issues on horse racing, but I was a child.
- [62:02]
Karen Freeman McNiff
Yes. No, no. My daughters have, have strong opinions about horse racing as well.
- [62:06]
Sponsor Announcer
Yeah.
- [62:07]
Karen Freeman McNiff
Not, not necessarily, not necessarily a positive. But yeah, so, but no, they, they love horses. They've been riding horses since they were two years old, so they just love it.
- [62:19]
Michael Popok
Fantastic. And let's, let's take a moment here at the end to talk about, to talk about what's coming up, which is a long weekend. Yes. With full programming, by the way, on Legal Laugh, YouTube channel and Midas. There is celebration. And just because Trump is in the White House and has tried to hijack our patriotism and create freedom 250 out of what should have been America 250 doesn't mean that we shouldn't. With our family and our friends, we practice our own brand of patriotism. We are patriots. I proudly fly the flag on holidays. It hasn't been captured for me by MAGA or whatever's left of maga. And we're going to be doing some counter programming on legal af. We got some great things lined up for the 4th of July during the day, so if you're bored, want to go look at some new videos? We're going to, we have a new contributor, a new contributing group. I think I'm going to get on on the 4th of July. But, you know, there's lots of ways to counter programming anything you see with Donald Trump. Long weekends are great to do things like going on vote.org and making sure you're registered to vote. You know, if you think you are, you probably aren't in your state, especially if it's a red state or a purpley state because of all the changes to the law. So register to vote if you haven't already. Get behind something that's civically or politically involved. A candidate that's running for something even local, that you find appealing. Volunteer. Join up with your, the party of your choice. Democratic Party, local Democratic Party, whatever. It's going to be whatever you, whatever, Whatever floats your boat. Right. If you're an independent and you don't really align with a party per se, you can, you can kind of sign up with organizations that align with your values and your morals in terms of their policies, position. Maybe it's women rights, maybe it's immigration rights, maybe it's it's elderly rights, children's rights, whatever it is, you know, ethnic rights, black, brown. Find the group and volunteer. Trust me, you will not be turned away. They need your help. They may need your money also, but they definitely need your help and they need your hands. And this is a great you can come off this long weekend having, you know, come on July 6th, signed up, ready to go. You got your mail in ballot in your and your voting registration squared away and you've and you volunteered your time for one of these organizations. I assure you good things are gonna come out the other side with the midterms. Karen, what are you and your family are gonna do and what do you think people should do as counter programming for the Fourth of July?
- [64:59]
Karen Freeman McNiff
I think at a minimum, turn off Donald Trump. Try to just ignore everything that he's doing and saying and really just get a break from him. That's certainly one of the things I'm gonna be doing because so much he makes so much news because he does so many things that are shocking. I'm worried he's going to bomb Iran because he's threatening to again take away the 4th of July from all of us and turn the news back onto him. But that's what I want. I want a break from him. I want to enjoy my family and I want to remember the things that I love about this country and the freedoms that we still have in this country and then rest up so that we can keep the the fight can continue and I'm going to keep fighting and we all should keep fighting. The midterms are right around the corner and we have to take back the Congress. So that's what I think. Recharge your batteries and keep fighting and
- [66:00]
Sponsor Announcer
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- [66:02]
Michael Popok
Be a great thing just to hit that button. Become a free subscriber on the Midas Touch network on Legal AF YouTube channel. There we go. And help us cross that 2 million threshold and Legal AF sub stack in all those different ways. So I really do appreciate each and every one of you. Got some great things we've been counter programming the whole night against the it's the World Cup. I haven't want to spoil it for people that are recording it. So we haven't been talking about the score, but I really do appreciate each and every one of you here and it's very heartwarming the generosity that our audience shows of their time, of their spirit in supporting all that we do. So programming note, Even though it's July 4th, Ben and I will be there for Legal AF on Saturday and then of course we've got 8 to 10 videos every every day on Legal AF YouTube I think you'll find really really appealing. So until our next recording with Karen and me and Legal AF and Midas and Midas shout out to the Midas Mighty and the Legal afers.
- [67:08]
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