Legal AF Full Episode - 7/12/2025

Summary

Legal AF Episode Summary – July 12, 2025

Introduction to the Epstein Scandal and Its Political Fallout

In this compelling episode of Legal AF hosted by Ben Meisellis and Michael Popak, the duo delves deep into the turbulent developments surrounding the Department of Justice (DOJ) and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) amid the ongoing Epstein scandal. The conversation begins with an exploration of internal conflicts within the DOJ and FBI, particularly focusing on high-profile figures such as Attorney General Pam Bondi, FBI Director Cash Patel, and Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch.

DOJ and FBI Turmoil: Who Will Be the First to Fall?

Ben Meisellis initiates the discussion at [01:29], raising critical questions about the stability of the DOJ and FBI. He asks, “Who is going to quit or get fired first?” highlighting the tension between Attorney General Pam Bondi and key right-wing figures like Cash Patel and Dan Bongino. Meisellis points out that Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch accuses Bondi of involvement in drafting the Epstein files, creating a rift within the DOJ ([02:19]). This internal strife is set against the backdrop of the recently released Epstein files, which have become a contentious issue politicized heavily by the MAGA movement.

Weaponization of Epstein Files in Republican Circles

Michael Popak echoes the gravity of the situation, discussing how the Epstein files have been co-opted by MAGA supporters to target political enemies indiscriminately. At [02:23], Popak remarks, “MAGA doesn’t know what to do because Trump didn’t give them an out,” indicating a loss of direction within the right-wing factions as they grapple with the implications of the Epstein revelations. The hosts emphasize that the Epstein scandal has been used to tarnish various public figures, including Donald Trump, who is prominently featured in Epstein’s black book and flight logs.

Media Coverage and Public Perception

Ben critiques the lackluster coverage by mainstream media outlets, suggesting that the “liberal media, left-wing media, corporate news in general did not cover the story they did not understand why it was a big deal” ([04:00]). This omission, he argues, has allowed significant details about Epstein’s activities, such as the use of Mar-a-Lago for recruiting young girls, to remain underreported. The conversation underscores the importance of public awareness regarding Epstein’s connections with high-profile individuals and the potential cover-ups surrounding his death.

Internal Conflicts Among Conservative Commentators

The episode highlights the growing unease among conservative commentators and MAGA supporters. Figures like Dan Bongino and Cash Patel are scrutinizing Attorney General Pam Bondi for her handling of the Epstein files, leading to threats of resignation if Bondi does not step down ([05:41]). Ben notes that this conflict is exacerbated by Trump’s refusal to distance himself or provide support to his aides, leaving them vulnerable to criticism and political fallout.

Impact on the Republican Party and MAGA Movement

At [10:41], Meisellis discusses Steve Bannon’s prediction that the GOP could lose up to 40 House seats due to the Epstein files controversy. The conversation touches on notable individuals like Alan Dershowitz and Bill O’Reilly, who have connections to both Epstein and Trump, further complicating the political landscape. The hosts argue that the Republican Party is facing an internal crisis as the scandal undermines their foundational support and credibility.

Judicial Responses and Legal Implications

The podcast shifts focus to the judiciary’s role in addressing the Epstein scandal. Ben highlights judicial notices from multiple federal judges who have recognized that the Trump administration has lied about the control and custody of individuals associated with Epstein ([34:33]). Michael Popak elaborates on the legal strategies and the potential for contempt proceedings against the DOJ for suborned perjury ([34:33]). The discussion underscores the legal battles that are likely to ensue as courts become increasingly aware of the administration’s alleged misconduct.

Central District of California Ruling on Racial Profiling

Transitioning to immigration issues, Ben and Michael examine a landmark injunction from the Central District of California that prohibits ICE from racially profiling individuals ([56:37]). Judge Frimpong, a Biden appointee, ruled that ICE's practices violate the Fourth and Fifth Amendments by targeting individuals based on ethnicity, language, and appearance. Ben emphasizes the widespread nature of these violations and their impact on both American citizens and migrants alike.

Potential for Class Action Lawsuits and the Bivens Doctrine

Michael touches on the challenges of pursuing civil lawsuits against ICE due to the Bivens doctrine, which limits the ability to sue federal officials for constitutional violations without specific legislative authorization ([62:30]). Despite these legal hurdles, the hosts express optimism that persistent legal efforts and public pressure will eventually lead to meaningful reforms and accountability within immigration enforcement agencies.

Critique of Trump’s Administration and Its Legal Maneuvers

Throughout the episode, Ben and Michael maintain a critical stance towards the Trump administration, highlighting its legal and ethical failures. From mishandling disaster responses in Texas to the alleged cover-ups of Epstein-related activities, the hosts argue that Trump's strategies are self-destructive and unsustainable. They predict that these ongoing controversies will lead to substantial political losses for the GOP in upcoming elections.

Conclusion: The Path Forward

Ben concludes the episode by advocating for continued legal action and public accountability to combat the Trump administration’s alleged misconduct. He underscores the importance of judicial oversight and the role of the legal community in upholding constitutional rights ([77:18]). The hosts call on listeners to support legal reforms and stay informed about the evolving political and legal landscape.

Notable Quotes

• Ben Meisellis ([02:19]): “Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch says Cash Patel and Dan Bongino were intimately involved in drafting the Epstein files with us, which is why people want Bondi out even more.”

• Michael Popak ([05:42]): “If you have on your bingo card the immolation of the Trump administration and MAGA eating its young because of the Epstein scandal, you won.”

• Ben Meisellis ([16:03]): “So here is Laura Ingraham at this right wing Turning Points USA conference... how uncomfortable she gets when asked about the Epstein investigation.”

• Michael Popak ([56:37]): “Judge Frimpong said, 'You cannot base your stop and detain and arrest based on the accent that they have, the language that they speak, what they look like.'”

Final Thoughts

This episode of Legal AF serves as a thorough examination of the intricate ties between high-profile legal scandals and political power struggles within the United States. Ben Meisellis and Michael Popak provide insightful analysis on the ramifications of the Epstein scandal on the DOJ, FBI, and the broader Republican landscape, while also addressing critical issues in immigration enforcement and constitutional rights. Their discussion underscores the importance of legal accountability and the ongoing fight for justice in the face of political turbulence.

Transcript

[Ben Meisellis]

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[Michael Popak]

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[Ben Meisellis]

Welcome to Legal AF. I'm Ben Meisellis joined by Michael Popak. We've got a lot to cover the DOJ and FBI's imploding. I guess the question is who is going to quit or get fired first? Is it going to be Attorney General Pam Bondi who all the right wing magas want to see gone? Or is it going to be FBI Director Cash Patel and Dan Bongino who are threatening to quit if Pam Bondi is not fired or she does not quit? She seems to be digging in her heels and her number two, the Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanch, Donald Trump's former criminal defense lawyer in the case where Trump was convicted on 34 felony counts. He says Cash, Patel and Bongino were intimately involved in drafting the Epstein files with us, which is why people want Bonjour.

[Michael Popak]

That's supposed to help them exact pushing.

[Ben Meisellis]

Them out even more right there. We're going to cover all of this and this all relates to a topic that we've covered a lot on the Midas Touch Network and on Legal af, which is the release of the Epstein files. And a lot of quote unquote liberal media, left wing media, corporate news in general did not cover the story they did not understand why it was a big deal. I mean one at a human level, it's a big deal. Right? Because if Epstein was protecting a massive sex trafficking ring of billionaires or if he was also working with foreign intelligence to blackmail these billionaires and elites, that, that's an important data point. We should know that. And there seemed to have been a massive cover up and suspicion regarding his death. He apparently died by suicide, but there was suspicion there. And then the Epstein list, but this became one of the biggest MAGA issues and they weaponized it to basically say any of their enemies is on the list, is on the list, when they really weren't. And the people who would be on the list is Donald Trump, who is literally Epstein's best friend. Epstein used Mar A Lago as a grounds, quite literally to recruit girls that he would sex traffic. Like Virginia Giuffre, a homeless girl at 17 years old who would work at Mar A Lago. Then Ghislaine Maxwell who sex trafficked for Epstein would, would go to Mar A Lago, find you, Frey working there and say, hey, you want to come back and meet this really rich guy? And then that's how she got sex trafficked. She's told that story publicly. It's an undisputed fact, what I just said. And of course Donald Trump appears in Epstein's black book that's been released. He's all over the flight logs and the deposition transcripts. He said Epstein's a great guy. Elaine Maxwell sex trafficking case A woman who was 14 years old at the time of this incident, Jane Doe said that she was introduced to trump as a 14 year old girl at Mar A Lago. Donald Trump in 2024 during the campaign use the Epstein jet. In 20 of all of the jets, Gulf Streams and Bombardiers and planes you can get, he uses the Epstein jet, Popeye. So all of that, oh, Trump is Doe 174 in the civil, in the civil cases. That's how he's identified. So we, there's videos of him partying with Epstein. So one of the strange things about this new hour, like they're never going to release the files because he's, he's going to be the main guy on him, because he is the main guy on the, on. If there's 100% that's been released, I mean 100% of files, about 10% has been released thus far. About 90% is still out there and missing. And you and I would know exactly where you would go. Underseal Depot transcripts and video Surveillance footage, and there's so many. The civil cases, I would know exactly where to look to get those files. But from the 10% released, if I were to go through ChatGPT, what was the name that appears the most? It's Donald Trump. So they do the COVID up this week. Popak, where Todd Blanch, Donald Trump's criminal defense lawyer who became the number two at the doj, writes that memo that says there's no such thing as an Epstein list. There's no files, we're shutting down the case. And then Trump was asked about it and they. And then Trump goes, epstein, you still.

[Michael Popak]

Talk about that guy?

[Ben Meisellis]

We're not talking about that guy anymore. We're moving on. So that's the background. And then Bongino and Patel, who are now running the FBI, they were right wing podcasters. They were the main people talking about Epstein. So they're blaming Bondi for covering it up and destroying their careers as right wing MAGA grifters. They want her out. MAGA doesn't know what to do because Trump didn't give them an out. Like normally you can follow the rabbit hole even deeper down there. Crazy conspiracies. But he's like, epstein, we're done talking about. We're done. So they all look stupid after pretending that Trump wasn't on the list. So that's where we're at Popoc with the doj. I've got other clips, but this is a, this is a big deal. We'll start with that.

[Michael Popak]

I'm not laughing at anything that you say. I'm laughing with you, obviously, not at you. I agree with everything you said. I said on a hot take recently, if you had on your the immolation of the Trump administration and MAGA eating its young because of the Epstein scandal and cover up on your bingo card, you won. I used to think that the Epstein thing, while important because of the pedophilia and the predator and the likelihood of Donald Trump's involvement, was always used by the Trump administration as a diversionary tactic, especially at the beginning of the administration with all those phony binders. They went to Kinko's FedEx copy and gave out to all the right wing MAGA. What Donald Trump apparently never realized is that he would be tripped up by the transitive property he didn't study in school. QAnon had pizzagate. QAnon had pizzagate thinking that Democrats were using pizza restaurants as fronts for pedophilia and cannibalism. Not making that up. And that is to QAnon what, what Jeffrey Epstein is to MAGA. MAGA. And I listen, I'm not in that world other than how I cover it with you. And so I wasn't in the rabbit hole. I wasn't in the dark web. I wasn't looking at all the right, right, right wing. But now there is this coalesced group which we'll touch on when we dive, dive, dive. Tucker Carlson, Elon Musk, Steve Bannon. Steve Bannon basically just threw Donald Trump under the bus and said Donald Trump is covering up the Epstein, both the murder, because they call it the murder and the client list, of course, Pam, Pamela Jo Bondi, Blondie, not my words. Laura Loomer calls her what? As soon as I saw Laura Loomer feeding Pam Bondi into the wood chipper by calling her Blondie, I said, oh, this, her days are numbered. Not in any other rational world or administration, but with Donald Trump and the relationship he has, the perverse relationship with Laura Loomer. She's, she's toast. She's, she's campaigning and beating the MAGA drum to get rid of Bongino, to get rid of Patel, to get rid of Pam Bondi. And there are, there's already, I don't think she's done one of her Loomer scoops yet, but there's already talk of the person that they originally were going to put in the position of Attorney General, which is term limited out, Ron DeSantis, which actually, I think is not a bad for the, it's actually great for the Democrats if that were to happen for many, many reasons because then we can stick him with all of the perverse legal positions in court as we pin the tail on the donkey for the midterms and beyond. And he wants to run in 2028. So I love that he would be front and center. Pam Bond. He's never going to be running for anything in 2028. But, but DeSantis is that he'll be tarred by the positions he'll be forced to take under Donald Trump. But when I saw Steve Bannon said we're going to lose 10% of Maga, the Maga base, you don't understand. Another, you'll post it later. Other right, right wingers who say you don't understand how the Jeffrey Epstein scandal and cover up is so important to maga, you've missed it. And then they go off. They have their whole, you know, it's all on an index card. They got all their bullet points and talking points. The, the videotape was doctored about the front door to the penitentiary, you know, the room he was in. And Pam Bondi said she had the client list. This is, we, we actually, I think Asin ran it or Midas ran it. Pam Bondi said, I've got the list on my desk. And then they announced in the report two days ago they don't have the list. There's no client list which is completely inconsistent with whatever was on Pam Bondi's desk. So we saw a firefight between Patel and Bondi before, but now it's just burst out into the open. And the only solution for it is for Donald Trump to fire everybody. And Bannon, Ben is calling for a special prosecutor, a special counsel to be appointed by, by Donald Trump and wasting all our taxpayer dollars to get to the bottom of the Epstein affair, to feed the MAGA beast who believes now that Donald Trump, who was their savior, is now involved with the COVID up.

[Ben Meisellis]

Now, Bannon said that this could cause the GOP to lose 40 House seats over the Epstein files. We heard from Alan Dershowitz, who was both Epstein's lawyer and Trump's lawyer. And Dershowitz said on the islands, well, Dershowitz said he got massages, but he was wearing his underwear the whole time is what he said. That's what he said, you know, about whatever that was like 10 years ago when he said that or seven years ago. But he said that he's aware of the list, he's aware of the files, he knows why it's covering up, why it's being covered up. But he claims his duty of confidentiality is such that he can't explain what's happening right there. You had Bill O'Reilly, one of Donald Trump's close friends, who was, who entered into what, a $23 million sexual harassment lawsuit on his way out of Fox, like more than a decade ago. He said that Trump said to him that he couldn't release the files because even if people's names were on the list who didn't do things that they would be associated with it, which again is false because we know that the black book has been released and other things have been released and there have been people's names who are on it, who are just on it because they're human beings who happen to be on it. And then there are people who are Epstein's best friend, like Donald Trump was.

[Michael Popak]

Michael talks a lot about things he has in somewhere. Right?

[Ben Meisellis]

Yeah. So now we have this issue and ultimately Popak, here's the thing about Bondi, Bondi didn't do this on her own. Trump obviously told Bondi, shut this thing down. What are you doing? Like it didn't come from. She didn't exercise, nor has she ever exercised independent thought. This order's coming from, it's. This order's coming from Trump. It's Trump saying, I know the guy. I'm going to be all over the list. It doesn't take a rocket science to realize that that's the case. And that's just the funny part where in MAGA world, and this is as the cult mindset has to latch on down the rabbit hole, they can't go further down the rabbit hole regarding the list itself. Like they. So they have to say, oh, Bondi's the bad person in this. In our cosplay fascist narrative, she's the bad girl, the bad guy. And that's why we don't have the list.

[Michael Popak]

Trump's involved. Bannon called out Trump and said, Trump is covering up. But you're exactly right about there's a limit to their conspiracy theory. Otherwise they throw the fearless leader under the bus as being right on the list. So his henchmen are the ones that are going to have to ultimately pay the price in all of this. I don't think Donald Trump actually thinks Pam Bondi is doing a great job his reporting. He doesn't think Pete Hegseth's doing a great job. So pardon me whether this is the thing, but I want to ask you a question. Did you think in your wildest imagination that the immolation of MAGA and the potential to tear down the Trump administration would be over Epstein and the purported cover up of his murder and that he was an Israeli intelligence officer? Because they got to throw the sort of anti Semitic, you know, they don't like Trump on Israel either. So they throw in this other rabbit hole, dogtail and wrap it all together. Did you ever think that this, though this early in the administration would be the, would be one of the greatest threats to the MAGA base supporting Donald Trump?

[Ben Meisellis]

I'm not trying to like gloat and be like. But the true answer is I did. And that's why I've been covering the Epstein stuff. At least every other day I run a story on Epstein on the Midas Touch network and our viewers can vouch for the fact that I've always covered it. I've covered the different permutations and I've been waiting for this moment where we're going, going down the rabbit hole actually ends, by the way, though, as it relates to the Foreign Intelligence Service. There were people in Trump's regime are the ones who had always said that and they said that there was links with him and foreign intelligence. They didn't specifically say if it was the Mossad or who else. I think the thought was, you know, I mean, how many foreign intelligence services would Epstein, you know, be, be associated with and what was going on? But yeah, no, I, the bottom line is that all of this stuff is originating from Trump's orbit. This was their issue. And it was Bongino and Patel's, you know, who were saying, let me show you this.

[Michael Popak]

Before you move on, one thing before you move on, you'll, you'll probably get to it. But now they're going after Cash, Patel's girlfriend. They're going after other right wing commentators, including women. So the misogyny is coming out all over again. That's too. And I think we'd be remiss if we didn't also mention, because we did mention her name. And if we're going to say her name, we got to say what happened. Virginia Gioffrey committed suicide about a month ago, who is one of the main victims of Jeffrey Epstein and also pointed the finger at lots of other people, including Prince Andrew.

[Ben Meisellis]

Yeah. And, and she was 17 years old, homeless, at Mar A Lago. Ghislaine found her there, brought her to Epstein and that was, that's what they did. I mean, that's, that's how Mar A Lago was used back then. Like it's an undisputed fact. Like in the MAGA cosplay version, they don't explain stuff. They don't talk about that.

[Michael Popak]

Epstein lived like two blocks from Mar A Lago. I used to in West Palm and Palm Beach. He was literally walking distance to Mar A Lago.

[Ben Meisellis]

So here is Laura Ingraham at this right wing Turning Points USA conference on Friday. You don't really get more MAGA than this. And she says, are you all satisfied with the results of the Epstein investigation? To watch how uncomfortable she gets. Here, play this clip.

[Michael Popak]

How many of you are satisfied?

[Ben Meisellis]

You can, you can clap. Satisfied with the results of the Epstein investigation? Clap. Okay, I told you to clap. You guys aren't listening.

[Michael Popak]

I'm not going to grade you on a curve. So I was going to get to that. How many of you are not satisfied.

[Ben Meisellis]

With the results of the investing. By the way, she wasn't going to get. What do you expect them to do? Clap. And then everybody boot. It was just, you know, the way she manipulates Audiences is interesting, but they weren't falling for it right there. And then you had Megyn Kelly with Charlie Kirk and here's what she had to say. Here, play this clip.

[Michael Popak]

No, we all have busy lives and.

[Ben Meisellis]

President Trump has a busy life. And I don't think he realizes how much he's humiliated the administration.

[Michael Popak]

This is a self inflicted wound. She caused it. Again, I have nothing against Pam Bondi.

[Ben Meisellis]

But if you want to look for the villain in this story, we have found her. I mean, she is the person who's either she's either lying now or she was lying then.

[Michael Popak]

There's no two ways about it. And if you.

[Ben Meisellis]

So here's Charlie Kirk with Steve Bannon and Jack Posabiek, who's also one of these right wing. He was one of the people who was holding the Phase 1 Epstein list binder at the White House back in February. And then Bondi said, that's just phase one. She goes, the list is on my desk. I have it. We're released. It's on my desk. So here the three of them are together and Charlie Kirk says, how many of you think this Epstein thing is a big deal? The entire audience raises their hands. Here, let's watch. So what's it going to be, Charlie? Can we pan to the audience? I'm curious how many of you raise your hand, think this is a big.

[Michael Popak]

Deal, the Epstein thing?

[Ben Meisellis]

Would you raise your hand? So, I mean, every hand, every, every.

[Michael Popak]

Hand has gone up.

[Ben Meisellis]

And then finally I could show you hundreds of these, but then Bannon's asking the audience there, do you believe that the DOJ and FBI right now have any credibility involving Epstein anymore? Here, play this quote. Agree with a special prosecutor has to be an independent. Special prosecutor has to take over. Do you believe that DOJ and FBI right now with the guys who are all close to Pam Bondi, Dan Bongino, Cash Patel, do you think they have any credibility left to pursue this? No. And I'll tell you exactly why straight, Steve. Because in 2016, we trusted the plan with Trump, but now Trump has become the deep state. The exact thing he, we voted him in. Why do you say why do you say why do you say he's become the deep state? What is more deep state than covering up for pedophiles? Why would you go to that island? Why? Tell me why would you go to that island? Why would you go on the plane? So there you have it. Bobak.

[Michael Popak]

Well, I was just gonna say they picked up, forget about the pitchforks, they've picked up Pitchforks and torches and they're going after the monster. And the monster is now Donald Trump, who's so clueless that in that if we're show the clip. But in that cabinet meeting he held three days ago where he just rambled on about everything from the Texas flood disaster to redecorating the cabinet room with gold leaf in the middle, he got asked a question about Epstein and he said where you did the great mimic imitation of him at the beginning because they were really asking the question of Pam Bondi who was next to him in that meeting. She went off and tried to answer the questions not well. He said, why? Because try to protect her. Why are we even talking about Epstein? That's a desecration of like the memory of the little girls in Texas. I'm like, oh, we're really pressing a losing hand here. And Trump obviously politically has a tremendous tin ear about his MAGA base that supports him. I'm actually, I know you followed him more than I did, but I'm actually shocked by the unanimity of the, of MAGA and the conservative movement to, to, without, without reflex, to, to take up arms against Donald Trump.

[Ben Meisellis]

He didn't give them any out. He usually gives them an out. Oh, Biden did this or this person did that or the SDNY is hiding. He just went, Epstein, why are we talking about it? Because he was guilty and he's always getting. And he lost. He wasn't able to keep it going there. And that's what happens with Ponzi schemes. You go to like a Bernie Madoff or an Enron or whatever, eventually it ends and the Trump Ponzi schemes end as well. I mean, historically, it's why so many of his businesses went bankrupt. He could drag all of the creditors along, along, along, along. And then finally he always has a moment in his career when he's just like Epstein, he's like, why would I pay you? You know, and then boom, it all blows up and it all falls apart.

[Michael Popak]

Do you think he appoints a special. What's Stephen, what's Stephen Miller telling him to do?

[Ben Meisellis]

It doesn't make a difference because Trump is not going to do. Trump is done talking about Epstein, but the people are. This story is going to get worse and worse for him. In his mind, he's done the COVID up. He's not talking about it. He's now going to, in his own mind, he's going to do what he did this morning. Rosie o' DONNELL. Revoke our citizenship. And we're all supposed to go oh, my God. Donald. Rosie. O Donald. But it just directs our attention back. Oh, got it. You're covering up for the Epstein list. I see what you're doing right there. Or, or, or all of these things that he's doing. Everything's a cover up. I mean, this past week I'm trying to think of all the COVID ups that I, that I've recorded on. I mean, just, just even think about this. Donald Trump said in a press conference that all 14 ballistic missiles that were shot by Iran into the Al Udid Air Force Base in Qatar were shot down. Not the case. One of the ballistic missiles actually hit. A pretty significant asset of the United States is in that base. A geodesic radar dome that we use for, for confidential communications. They covered that up and we learned about that. Of course they covered up the fact that the in Iran were not as successful as they originally claimed. Now, Israeli intelligence says that Iran's able to get weapons grade material pretty much right away.

[Michael Popak]

They have it now. Right.

[Ben Meisellis]

And then all of the COVID ups in Texas, I mean, what's happened in Kerr county and how Donald Trump goes there and says, we've done an excellent job. You can, you're. He goes, you're an evil person or you are a loser. If you question what, what the county, the state and the federal government could have been doing better in that. Which is.

[Michael Popak]

Wait, wait, wait. As we have new reporting that FEMA defunded and underfunded by Donald Trump. So it's his FEMA did not respond. Was not responsive to people in need and distress in that county because. And who's that? That's not Biden. That's the shrinking of the federal government so small it could be drowned in a bathtub. But which is Donald Trump's goal. And so it's his fema. And that's his problem when he goes to places like that. If Biden had gone that late to that disaster area days, almost a week after the floods to walk around with Melania, this time she wasn't wearing a jacket that said I don't care, do you?

[Ben Meisellis]

She's wearing a black hat, though. I mean, it looks ridiculous.

[Michael Popak]

Yeah, right off of the Elon Musk collection from Kmart. But when she goes there, he says, they said, they say such weird, weird and discordant things. Abbott, the governor says it's like a football team. You don't talk about how you lost, ma', am, I'm going to do better next time. This is a football team. The loss of 250 plus Texans, including 20 little girls. That's a football team. And Donald Trump says, yeah, their love for that camp was cute. It was really cute. And Melania, I got a charm bracelet. Are you effing kidding me? In 1987, 10 other girls drowned in a bus along that same river, okay? And in that amount of time, including the first Trump administration and certainly now, nothing is done to establish a warning system. And they let cabins, including the youngest girl, cabins to sit along that lake, that river that went up 24ft in two hours and drowned them all. And so who is to blame? We just. Are we in the Bible now? Do we just. This is just the Red Sea. We don't know how it happened. Come on.

[Ben Meisellis]

It was a four minute walk for those girls to get to the safe distance. Four minutes. You know what they call that mountain there? God Mountain. Because all you got to do is pray. So that was God mountain. It took 72 hours for FEMA to activate Urban Search and Rescue Queen Cruz. Not because it wasn't ready. FEMA had it ready, but because Kristi Noem wouldn't sign off on it. And nobody has heard or seen the head of fema. This new guy, no one knows where he is. He wasn't at that meeting. He hasn't been in the press conferences. The head of FEMA is missing in action. Just think about if Biden's head of FEMA just ran away from something like this. And this is the Trump regime. All right, we got to take our first quick break of the show. I want to remind everybody about Michael Popo's new law firm, where a lot of our audience is reaching out with their cases. So if you or somebody you know has been in a catastrophic injury, a trucking accident, a car accident, an auto accident, where you are the victim, if you know someone who's the victim and is in a wrongful death case, a medical malpractice case, a sexual harassment or assault case, go reach out to Michael Popak. The consultation is free. He started this firm because you all said, hey, we'd love to reach out to you. We trust you and we need, you know, if we have a case, can you do the cases? He couldn't now. He could. Popak, where can they reach out to you?

[Michael Popak]

So honored to represent the people in our audience and their family members. We made it easy. I made it easy. I designed it. It's easy to remember. 1-800-number for a free consultation. 1-877-popak. That's P O, P O K A F. What else? And then a website. That brings you right to a free consultation form with people standing by to evaluate your case. And that is atthepopoc firm.com subscribe to.

[Ben Meisellis]

The Legal AF YouTube channel. Let's get them to 1 million subscribers and the Legal AF substack as well. All right, let's take our first quick break of the show. We will be right back in business.

[Michael Popak]

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[Ben Meisellis]

Welcome back to Legal af. Thank you to those Pro Democracy sponsors. Support our sponsors by using those discount codes in the description below. The link to the sponsor is right there we were talking about the Trump regime cover ups. We saw another on full display in the federal courts across the United States as the United nations investigation into El Salvador's role in disappearing human beings from the United States turned up some we would call them a hot doc. We would call them smoking guns when I would practice law. And Michael Popak this is a hot doc showing that the Trump regime engaged in the most contemptuous of behavior before the federal courts when it claimed it had no ability to facilitate the return of Abrego Garcia or any of the migrants who were sent to seekot that concentration camp in El Salvador. You see what happened was the United nations opened up an investigation into crimes against humanity by El Salvador, saying that you are aiding and abetting the United States into torturing and disappearing human beings. El Salvador relies a lot on tourism and El Salvador I think was worried that the UN could reach a finding that could also impact and this was one of the pressure points I always existed with El Salvador. Other countries not going to El Salvador as Donald Trump loves to praise the dictator Bukele of El Salvador. El Salvador has a relatively pretty small gdp. They're highly dependent on tourism. And you know, if people stop showing up there and buying their products, it's very easy for Venezuela to go bankrupt pretty quickly. So the UN did an investigation and El Salvador responded to the United nations. And here was the response from El Salvador in response to a United nations missing persons report. So the report on just the fact that that the UN is doing an investigation into involuntary disappearances of human beings by the United States and El Salvador to the UN distances itself from the United States. How do we know this? Well, we have the documents that they gave to El Salvador sent to the UN which became part of the discovery and the court filings in the federal court cases across the country. It was first filed in that class action case in Washington D.C. before Judge Boasberg regarding the 150 plus Venezuelans who were sent to seekot Then the other judges, whether it was Judge Zinnis, an Obama appointee in Maryland, or even Judge Gallagher, a Trump appointee, all these judges start taking on their own sua spontane judicial notice of this document and saying, all right, Trump regime, here's what El Salvador is telling the United Nations. So we're taking judicial notice that you basically lied to the court. So what did El Salvador say to the un? Let me just read it. It says the Salvadoran state emphatically states that its authorities have not arrested, detained or transferred the persons referred to in the communications of the working group. That's the involuntary disappearance group. The actions of the state of El Salvador have been limited to the implementation of a bilateral cooperation mechanism with another state through which it has facilitated the use of the Salvadoran prison infrastructure for the custody of persons detained within the scope of the justice system and law enforcement of that other state. In this context, the jurisdiction and legal responsibility for these persons lie exclusively with the competent foreign authorities by virtue of international agreements signed and in accordance with the principles of sovereignty and international cooperation in criminal matters. Michael Popak, that UN report makes it clear. And that was from Bukele saying that, nope, all we're doing is providing temporary prison. But the jurisdiction over those prisoners is with Trump. That's what I read. That's the deal.

[Michael Popak]

Let me put it in plain English. The Trump administration, the Department of Justice is F'd. They have been lying. The federal judges know they've been lied to. We got three different federal judges that have been lied to. Based on this new bombshell from the UN that was filed in Judge Boasberg Chambers for the JGG case, about 200 people who are not named Abreco Garcia, who he's trying to decide whether and how he should order them back, give them due process. He also had a series of discovery, which is information exchange, compelled information exchange in the process about two months ago about who really had custody of these individuals. And the Department of Justice and ICE and Homeland Security and the Secretary of State all took the possession, all took the position in order to support their. Donald Trump has foreign policy privilege because the Supreme Court says he does in the. In the area of foreign policy. So they had to make it about sovereignty and diplomatic negotiations. So they actually took the position in writing that the. They could not get somebody like Abrego Garcia out of or anybody out of the sea cot supermax killer prison in El Salvador because that was a sovereign decision for Bukele. And in order to reinforce that everybody remembers, they brought Bukele into the White House, treated him better than our wartime ally Zelensky, this petty dictator. And he said, why would I ever bring a murderer, a gang member, smuggle him into the United States? I would never do that. And Trump in his ver, I would never ask you to do that. So they had that bullshit a pitch and catch for the press and the media. The reality is based on this new what was once secret but now is public. They now have admitted El Salvador, has admitted that for all time. Everybody that's been dumped off in el Salvador, those 200 people, including Abrego Garcia, were always only under the custodial decision making of the United States, States of America. So that they have lied and suborned perjury. That's what we call it in court after court after court, which is consistent with what the whistleblower, Erez Reveni, who used to be one of the top immigration lawyers and appeared in front of Judge Zinnis in the Abrego Garcia case and worked for Drew Ensign, who floats around all of these cases and he said in his 27 pages that he and others were told to not to defy. Were told to defy federal judges from Zinnis to Gallagher to Boseberg, to not tell them the truth, to push ahead, to tell them to go F you, okay? And this reinforces that they have all been lied to. So here's the. This is like a, this I feel like this is a pool, a perverse game of pool where the cue ball is now going to hit three different cases. Okay? So that gets filed in the Boasberg case. So look for contempt proceedings from a judge that already found the Trump administration that there was probable cause for criminal contempt already. So we got that Judge Gallagher believes that she's been lied to because both things can't be true. Either El Salvador lied to the UN and nobody believes that on the issue of who controls seacot for the American deportees. Or she's been lied to in her courtroom by the Department of Justice in the cases that she's dealing with because she has an Abrego Garcia like person that she's ordered to have returned and to have everybody to have him facilitated back to the United States and was fed the same load of clothes crap by the Department of Justice as Judge Zinnis was in her case involving Abrego Garcia. Then you've got Abrego Garcia which just had a two day evidentiary hearing with all this as a backdrop with a judge, Judge Zinnis, who believes in her heart of Hearts. And you can tell from her body language the things that she says and the things that she writes. She believes that she's been lied to frequently by an untrustworthy Department of Justice. She will not take anything they say as true. She even forced them to have an evidentiary hearing and put a witness in the box in her case where she's trying to decide what happens to Abrego Garcia after he's released potentially on 16 July by a federal magistrate judge in Tennessee about whether he is gonna be brought back to Maryland. Which is what Abrego Garcia wants to have happen to be under the watchful eye of Judge Zinnis. And she wanted to get straight in a hearing. What are you planning to do? Trump ice? Trump Homeland Security with a guy named Abrego Garcia once he is released from federal detention, which where he's been stashed away by a federal magistrate judge to protect him from the Trump administration and from removal. Originally, some people might be thinking, what happened to that? What happened to that indictment for human smuggling Popak in Tennessee? Yeah, what happened to that? We always knew it was a charade, it was manufactured, it was a lie. They are effectively abandoning the indictment. They are not going to go forward with it. They did not say when asked. She asked the lawyers for the Department of Justice. Let me get this straight. Did you just indict him because you needed to do that in order to get him back from El Salvador and now we know no, because they always had control of the prison? They said, no, judge. He said, all right, well, then you lied to me. Then you lied to me about your inability to bring him back. And you also. I have a lot of skepticism about a criminal investigation that got started while we were in court talking about Abrego Garcia. And then she said, well, what is your grounds to take him into immigration process and to remove him? Well, we have an order of detainer. She says, what's the order of detainer? Just for our audience, the federal marshals who are holding him in the detention center related to his criminal case have been informed by ICE that they have an order of detainer, meaning when he pops out of that detention center, he's going to be rearrested and detained by ICE because of their removal process. And she said, what's the basis for that? They said, a final order of removal. She said, you just gave me a witness who said the decision about a final order for removal hasn't been determined and won't be until he actually gets into ICE custody. So which is it? She said, then they told her, ben, you'll love this. They told her at one point, she said, well, I want to see a copy of the detainer. They said, well, we don't have it. She said, well, you didn't bring it to court during our evidentiary hearing. Trust this judge. It's a standard order of detainer. She said, frankly, I don't trust you. You don't have credibility with me in this courtroom for obvious reasons. And so she is about to make a ruling with again this backdrop of the Trump administration. Homeland Security, Secretary of State and ICE have lied to three federal judges about their control over, over that prison. She's now going to make a decision and based on what I read about the two days of hearing and the Trump administration basically going, telling Judge Sinus to go F herself by putting a witness in the box that she ordered. She said, give me a witness with personal knowledge or gets up to speed on the facts about exactly the next steps for Abrego Garcia for his removal, whether he's going to a third country, how is he doing it, the amount of time the lawyers will have to run into court to talk about it on a writ of habeas corpus. Give me the process. The guy gets in the box. Four hours he's in the box, witness box, he's some deputy muckety muck. Guy's been with the, with ice for like 14 years. And the first question was, when were you identified as a witness in this case? Four o' clock in the morning, my time, Three days ago. Okay. Did you have any involvement in this Abrego Garcia case before that? None. Do you have any experience in this type of removal? I don't. Did you, do you know what's going to. This is the fundamental question. Do you know what's going to happen to Abrego Garcia if he's released and turned over to ICE custody? We haven't made that decision yet. The judge said, let me take some questioning here. Are you want me to believe that a desk clerk is going to make this decision about Abrego Garcia, the guy that has the United States Supreme Court 90 decision in his favor? You're going to. That's what you want me to believe? She said. And then the lawyers for Abrego Garcia asked. I mean, these questions were not hard. How are you prepared to testify today? I was given a one and a half page memo like, okay, go on. And I was prepared by Department of Justice lawyers for three hours. That's it. That's it. Did you ever think to talk to anybody that actually had personal knowledge in any of the departments of the government about Abrego Garcia? No, that never occurred to me to talk to those people. So they took a weekend at Bernie's guy who has no experience about anything to answer any of the judge's questions. And now they're going to. I guess they'll be shocked when Judge Zinnis is. I'll come back and tell you I was wrong. She's going to enter a temporary restraining order. She's going to bring him to Maryland under her watchful eye. She is going to give 48 to 72 hours notice before he is removed and put on a plane to Mexico or wherever they're gonna send him to. Let the lawyers come back to her and argue about his due process rights. And what we're watching, just to kind of take the plate up for a moment, is we're watching and we'll talk about it throughout Legal AF today, judges, politicians, individuals coming at the Trump administration to shove back at the repulsive, depraved policies that have sunk the Trump administration in a way I don't even think he envisioned. In terms of polling, he is 26 points underwater in terms of favorable, unfavorable, favorable, unfavorable. He's the lowest rated president in 50 years since polling at the six month mark. And every everybody that watches Midas Touch Network and Legal AF and sees children in cages and handcuffs, sees people dying during raids, sees human beings being chased on horseback through parks, through farms, through factories. It's one thing to read about an executive order. It's another thing to see a child in chains in a van being, you know, being brought down a freeway.

[Ben Meisellis]

Well, I have the B roll. Salty. Can you play The B roll, LA in ice for our audio listeners? Our viewers can see it. These are children between the ages of 5 and 12 in handcuffs at an ICE detention center in Los Angeles walking in a line together, hands shackled as they're being moved to their next location. You we don't have the audio here because I asked for it to be done as B roll. But it's someone just kind of cursing at the ICE guards as the ice guards are walking handcuffed children single file in a garage who are, who are chained. You know, that's, you know, we have a concentration camp in Florida in the Everglades that they call Alligator Alcatraz, which is really Alligator Dachau or alligator whatever you want to call it. I mean, it's a concentration Camp there where?

[Michael Popak]

Right, yeah.

[Ben Meisellis]

You know, you know, Dachau was the first one before it got, you know, and so I, I think that, I think it's a concentration camp. I think it's getting, it's getting there. But the first one in Nazi Germany was, and I hope I'm pronouncing it right, Dachau or Dachau. Dachau. It was the first one. And to me, that's, that's the biggest, a better representation of what Alligator kind of Alcatraz is, is for now. And that's why we the people have to take back the power. It's certainly not going to come from the United States Supreme Court. Although I will, I will give a hat tip, though. The district court judges Trump appointed, judges George W. Bush, Reagan, Obama and Biden, they're doing their job at the district court level. I would say, by and large that.

[Michael Popak]

Age, an appellate court, general and appellate.

[Ben Meisellis]

Courts are doing their job. Then it gets to those Supreme Court justices and that, and what they do procedurally is to try to wash their hands of the cruelty they're inflicting. They use a shadow docket. And then they, and then they grant the Trump administration's procedural request to stay or pause the district court's order to preserve the status quo pending the resolution of the cases. And oftentimes the district court will preserve the status quo before Trump did all the illegal stuff. So the district court stays from Trump judges, Obama judges, Reagan judges, whoever. They'll say, no, no, no. Preserve the pre Trump status quo. Right. And then after that, you would have, then after that you would have the Supreme Court steps in and says, nope, we wanna basically have it be the status quo once Trump implemented the law or when Trump did his executive order, which is the clearly patently unlawful executive order. All right, I wanna take our last quick break of the show. When we get back, I wanna talk about more on what we were saying here. A new ruling from a federal judge in the Central District of California, California, specifically finding that the Trump regime is engaging in racial profiling and ordering them to stop doing it without probable cause. And then we should. Let's talk a little bit more. Popa wearing our legal caps from negligence and malpractice and how you would handle this case if you were a lawyer dealing with the situation in Texas and what the kind of legal rights are of the people in Texas. We touched on it before, but I want to hear about that as well. I want to remind everybody about the Legal AF substack. Make sure you subscribe there on Legal AF. Just if you have substack search Legal AF also the Legal AF YouTube channel. Subscribe to that. They're on their way to a million subscribers on the Legalif YouTube channel. And if you have a case or you know somebody who has a legal case, if you were involved in an auto accident, a trucking accident, you're the victim, you suffered serious injuries and you want a free consultation, reach out to Michael Popak's firm. Also, if you know someone who was involved in a wrongful death case, sexual assault and harassment case, legal malpractice, medical malpractice cases, Popak where can they reach out to you if they want a free consultation about their injury?

[Michael Popak]

I designed a very simple process, a 1, 800 number that I could remember 1-877-popoc-af and a website that is deceptively easy to remember the popoc firm.com There are, there are human beings on both ends of that inquiry method. Whatever, whatever suits whatever you like better. That will do a screening about the case as it gets to me.

[Ben Meisellis]

Take our last quick break of the show and then we'll be right back.

[Michael Popak]

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[Ben Meisellis]

Welcome back to legal AF. Thank you to our pro democracy sponsors. You know, Popak, all hell was breaking loose in California over the past few days, frankly, for a while as ICE dressed in their military gear, bringing their tanks, invading our neighborhoods. You know, they started off earlier in the week going through MacArthur park and kind of storming a park where kids were playing soccer in Los Angeles County. And then ICE began its raids of farms in Santa Barbara county, in Ventura county, all throughout Fresno County, Riverside, and causing a lot of chaos, rounding people up if they looked Hispanic, you know, whether they were American citizens or not, just, but just, just rounding people up. I mean, we, we've heard stories about a disabled veteran who was at the Camarillo Farmhouse plant, a glass house plant that was used for cannabis farming, was a security guard there, and he was leaving. He was rounded up by ice. We're talking about an American, American citizen.

[Michael Popak]

There's a, there's an American citizen job Garcia, who just filed a multimillion dollar lawsuit in LA with a video it's up on Instagram about him being pulled. He's an American citizen being pulled out of the cab of his truck by ICE who racial profiled him. And because he looked a certain way and spoke a certain way and hung out in a certain place, they use that as probable cause to violate his Fourth Amendment rights of search and seizure. And he's not taking it lying down. He's the first lawsuit that's been brought by an American citizen for the violation of his constitutional rights by this administration and their deportation and removal plan. Things are going to happen like this, right, Ben, when you have a 3,000 a day quota for arrests being pushed by Tom Holman and Stephen Miller and you have an ICE group that's morale is so in the trash that part of the budget that just got passed was to give them a $10,000 bonus to stay because nobody wants to be calling it internally at ice. Mission Impossible. They hate their job. This is not what they signed up for. When you put that together in one place, being pushed by depraved people like Stephen Miller and Tom Homan, bad things happen. We're there to report on it so that people see it's one like, like I said earlier, it's one thing to read about it or to read an executive order of Donald Trump. It is another thing for the repulsiveness. And this is where the polling is. Donald Trump is getting whipsawed between his immigration policies, which people are now seeing in the flesh as human beings are being chased and children are being chased on horseback and thrown in the back in vans chained together with this Epstein story that is like a bad penny for Donald Trump. It just won't go away. The more he wills it to go away, the worse it is for him. And he's getting whipsawed between these two things while he Fs with the global economy, with his tariff policies.

[Ben Meisellis]

So let's talk about this order out of the Central District of California, an injunction against the Trump regime and ICE from racially profiling people. The ACLU put in so many alarming facts about what was taking place out here. And we know it's taking place. I mean, just if you look Hispanic, you know, they, the ICE would roll up at the swap meets. They don't care if you're an American citizen or not. They, or a migrant. They run up to you, they grab you and they throw you in the car and they bring you away and then they ask questions later. Maybe they release you, maybe they don't maybe end up wherever. I mean, there's still a lot of people who are missing. You know, where, where are these people in la, There are signs missing. Where, where is this person like in the United States? So, Popak, talk about this district court order.

[Michael Popak]

Yeah, we've got a great district court order out of your, your neck of the woods. Central District of California. So Judge Frimpong, who's a Biden appointee, she made it relatively simple. She said this is not a difficult case. Regardless of whether you want to try to deport and remove migrants and undocumented, they have Fourth Amendment search and seizure rights and they have Fifth Amendment rights to counsel if they've been detained and you are violating both of them. In her 52 page opinion, she recites the facts that were put in by the ACLU about what's happening and she said, you are enjoined from doing the following. You cannot base your stop and detain and arrest based on the accent that they have, the language that they speak, what they look like, what their last name is, where they work, where they are hanging out or hanging around. You can't do any racial or immigrant profiling in order to violate the Fourth Amendment. The Fourth Amendment is not, yes, it's for American citizens, but it's for everyone on American soil. And they are, because of this widespread search and seizure that they're using, they're not being careful at all about how they filter out the good from the bad. In fact, you have spokespeople for the Trump administration that says another department, another district judge, is undermining the will of the American people. Thanks, Trisha McLaughlin. Why don't you look at your polling? The will of the American people is that 68% think your immigration plans are terrible and depraved and they believe there should be a path to citizenship and they don't believe in removal. They also love throwing or they love pushing these buttons, knowing that they are false. The button of we're getting rapists, murderers, pedophiles off the street, meaning if we, if we talk about this and criticize their violation of the Fourth Amendment, we must be pro murder, pro rape, and pro pedophilia. And the reality is that's not what the numbers show. More than 50% of the people that are being picked up and stopped and arrested don't have a criminal record at all. And they are not getting ms.13 off the street. So that is a, a complete and total fabrication of the Trump administration. And they say that outside the courtroom, but why they lose is because they have no evidence of that in the courtroom. And so they lose time and time again at every federal judge, at every trial judge level and appellate court level. We'll set aside for a moment, for now what happens at the Supreme Court issue. So Frimpong took a look at all the facts and she's issued, It's Not a nationwide injunction. We've done a great tutorial about why it's not a nationwide injunction. It applies to Central District of California. But it will have, as the ACLU has said in their press releases, it will have a ripple effect, the domino effect as a blueprint for how other judges will address this very issue. Eventually there's going to. We're going to talk about a class certification today. There's going to be a class certification of everybody who's being racially or otherwise profiled in the violation of the Fourth Amendment and not given access to counsel in violation of the Fifth Amendment. She actually issued two temporary restraining orders. Some of the reporting was like it was one, it's two. It's one on the Fourth Amendment and the other on the Fifth Amendment. At the very same time she's doing that. That guy Joe Garcia filed his multimillion dollar lawsuit because he is an American citizen who was racially profiled and pulled out of the cab of his truck and roughed up by ice, backed up by National Guard is another reason you don't want to have the federalization of the National Guard. Because all you're seeing then is the military involved with the violation of Americans and others Fourth Amendment rights, which is exactly where an apolitical military does not not want to be.

[Ben Meisellis]

You know, one of the things you talked about, this, you know, injunction as it relates to Southern California, it's limited this order by Judge Fringpong to Central District of California in this area. Injunctions like this will be granted. The broader issue, Popak, as you mentioned, these civil lawsuits that civil rights lawyers that people like you would ultimately file, what's going to become a major issue is going to be the issue of Bivens, right? This case that was decided in 1971, Bivens versus six unnamed agents. And this case found in that specific case there was an implied cause of action for an individual whose Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable search and seizures had been violated by the Federal Bureau of Narcotics. But over the years, as this implied cause of action has been tried to be extended to ICE and other groups, the Supreme Court has largely found that because Congress has not passed a law that specifically says you can sue ICE for unreasonable search and seizures, that you can't bring civil lawsuits against ice. People may remember some of the early days of legal af. You and I covered the Bivens case. And in one of the contexts where we covered it was actually a lawsuit brought by Michael Cohen against the Department of Justice and others when he showed up for a probation hearing, and they wanted him to sign away his rights to do a book. And he goes, I'm not signing it. They put him in solitary confinement and he sues and says, you violated that was an unreasonable search and seizure. You violated my constitutional rights. And the Supreme Court wouldn't take the case. And ultimately the Second Circuit, following Supreme Court precedent, said Bivens had not been extended to these other areas. So I flag that now because, Popak, I think that's where I think we're going to have an issue where these cases potentially get dismissed against ICE under Bivens for the horrific conduct that they do. And then we're going to have to then see what's going to happen with the Bivens doctrine. But unlike Trump, who has the Supreme Court on speed dial, I think a lot of these lawsuits against ice, unfortunately, are going to take many years after. I think, unfortunately, they may get dismissed until it gets brought to the Supreme Court. And I actually think the Supreme Court Court. I'm not trying to give bad news here. I think the Supreme Court's going to kind of let ICE do whatever it wants. You disagree with me, Popak, on, on the Bivens analysis there?

[Michael Popak]

No, the reason I raised. I don't. And the reason I raised Job is not because I think he'll ultimately be successful, although I looked at the complaint briefly before I was doing a hot take. They have a work. Pardon me, they may have a workaround for it. But Bivins, this maga, Supreme Court, if Bivens isn't on life support, it's pretty close. They just don't like when Congress hasn't spoken expressly on an issue. They just don't like defined liability, especially when it undermines their imperial presidency model, which we're watching over and over and over again. I mean, I was even surprised that they found. Back to Ron DeSantis for a minute. Ron DeSantis and his attorney general, the guy that came up with the Alcatraz alligator. Alcatraz had a setback because the Supreme Court, even they thought that Ron DeSantis is out there to try to criminalize immigration by state law in Florida. And they were like, yeah, no, you can't do that. So I was like, well, we found the limits of what the Supreme Court is willing to back you up on when you have depraved immigration policies. But I agree with you, I think, but, but the purpose of talking about it, this is where you and I, I think, do a good job in the way we present to our audience is not the defeatist. You know, he did it, but he's going to lose. We're not the grim reaper. There is merit and there is purpose and there is a learning that happens and a need to file these things. Even if we can astral project into what's going to happen two or three years from now, we need to bring the thousands, thousands of lawsuits. I said 4,000. I think I'm going to be right by the end of the term against the Trump administration and let the trial court level judges, even if they're not going to be ultimately supported on every issue by the United States Supreme Court, do their jobs. Most justice is done at the trial level and at the appellate court level and not at the United States Supreme Court level. There are tens of thousands of cases that are filed every year. Only 70 make it on to the big docket for the Supreme Court. They have other emergency applications and things that bulk up those numbers, but that's where justice is done. And we have to continue to just keep firing at the strike zone with these cases, whether it's done by private parties, by the states, by the public interest groups, by their new public interest groups that we never even heard of, you know, 10 years ago or a year ago, that have popped up now to defend people who are being retaliated against by this vindictive president. It's just mind boggling to me that we talk about the immolation of the Republican Party and the MAGA party, which is one and the same at this point, at the top of the hot, at the hot, the top of the podcast, it's still remarkable to me, having always had for my adult life a other party that I could reasonably disagree with on most policy issues. But I could still consider a party on the other side. And now to see the numbers of the people who in the MAGA and Republican movement who think Trump is doing a good job and the numbers there now, fortunately the rest of America, including all of the independents at this point, have totally abandoned him and have left the building, which is why his numbers are terrible. But to see that the Republicans, and even like the country club Republicans and the ones that were the Goldwater Reagan Republicans, are still somehow supporting him is mind boggling to me. They've so overplayed their hand in shoving this agenda down our throats and up our other body parts over the last six months that I can't believe they're going to be shocked when the American people send them packing. At least the House and likely the Senate at the midterms. I think their goal is to do maximum damage and destruction with a short time horizon that Trump has for many reasons, and to check the box of as many debts as he has to pay off to all the groups that got him elected. And then after that, it's up for us, for you and I and the rest of America to pick up the pieces.

[Ben Meisellis]

I want to briefly address how I and you would approach a legal case in Texas and how we would kind of look at it. Not practicing in Texas, but I handled a lot of cases against, when I did practice, the county and city in Los Angeles, you know, that involved dangerous conditions. I once handled a very tragic case involving a father and a young girl. The father lost his life saving the young girl. There was supposed to be a stop sign at an intersection, and a car that would roll through this dangerous intersection, hit the father. And one of the things that we uncovered in discovery is that there was supposed to be a stop sign there. And what happened was the person in charge of it was actually deployed overseas, and they just literally forgot to put the person to install the stop sign afterwards. And so that person left. Two years passed. We got the emails and discovery, and there was literally an email where someone was like, oh, shit, we forgot the stop sign. And after that, they had to settle that case. That was a more complicated case, I think, than this. I mean. I mean, in terms of the duty, breach of duty, causation, and damages, that would be your analysis for negligence here. I think it was even more than negligence. I think that this was a recklessness and a maliciousness bordering on the most significant to punitive damages. But, Popak, you have this camp that's built in an area where already it should not be built. It should not be built in a flood corridor where you know that. That this is the most dangerous river that. One of the most dangerous rivers that exist. You know, then at the county and city level, they took the money that Biden gave him in the American Recovery act, like $10 million that was supposed to go to alarm and warning systems, and they took it to give themselves bonuses and to pay themselves more money instead of do what they were supposed to do because they said warning system was communist and woke. There's actually transcripts from the. The. The county hearings where. And by the way, the people in the county would say, yeah, we don't want that woke stuff. And then the judges who leave that kind of like, yeah, but we'll just take the money for ourselves.

[Michael Popak]

What are we gonna.

[Ben Meisellis]

Let's consult John Cornyn. The. The Lawyer, the senator from Texas. And then Cornyn told them, yeah, just take the money or whatever. So you have all of that. You have the county not activating. They still had access to do a cell phone warning. They did not activate that. We know that at the federal level that they didn't do the urban search and Rescue for seven days.

[Michael Popak]

And they were on notice since 1987 when those 10 girls died in the bus in the same region from a flood. Because the river rose at that time.

[Ben Meisellis]

Is to me, I believe there's going to be lots of lawsuits that are going to be filed over this. I think it's just a matter of time. What do you think, Popak?

[Michael Popak]

No, I totally agree with you. It's fine. You know, not funny. You and I have a very similar practice. I had, I had a very similar case where where about a child who was impaled off of a guardrail and the screw ups that were related to that. It is, it is harder to sue a state and a municipality and a government entity because of some aspects of sovereign immunity, but not impossible. You have to go through that process. A lot of states will then require you to go to the legislature and get what's called a special claims bill. That's what we had to do in Florida in order to compensate for that. But usually there's so much public pressure related to these cases where these horrific things have happened. Like we left out one terrible fact. Not only were the cabins at that camp and hundreds of other people died. I don't only want to focus on the little girls at a Christian camp who died, but the fact that they allowed the youngest Girls, who were 8, were at the cabin that was closest to the river and the older girls were up on that, whatever you called it, Holy Hill or whatever it was. So they were actually, in a perverse way, destined, doomed to die if that river rose as quickly as it did the youngest, which is just sad in so many different ways, and then hundreds. And we've all seen the pictures now. We've read the stories of people leaving text messages and voicemail messages for their loved ones with the water rising in the background before them. And this was very, very simple. This isn't woke, this isn't dei. This is health and public safety, life, health and safety, which is the only reason, and I have a fair amount of municipal government experience, this is the only reason that government exists, is supposed to fundamentally be able to protect life, health and safety of its residents. If it can't do that fundamental thing, it should be disbanded and the state should take it over. Except in Texas, I don't think that helps you because I think the state is also equally backwards when it comes to protecting people. So it's simple. You live in a river area. You live on a fault line for an earthquake. You live in an area like in Florida that has hurricanes and you don't have things that help your people in time of distress, then you are negligent or reckless or criminally negligent. If the things that you just identified come out in the lawsuit, which of course, obviously they would about, we'll take the money and we, you know, f. Biden, you know, you know, let's go, Brandon, who cares? And then here's the ramifications of it. This was a simple fix. They did not. This, this is the sad part. We watched what happened in New Orleans with the wipeout of the parishes in New Orleans, mainly black parishes in New Orleans, and things that were done after that to avoid the death and destruction that happened after Hurricane Katrina that got taken seriously. Texas, it's been 40 years since those other little girls died about the same thing. And so that's why I think you're right. It rises the level of recklessness. So you file the lawsuit. I'm sure it's coming. You file the lawsuit against everybody that has responsibility from the state to the federal to the local, to the camp, sorry, camp, to the. And I know that one of the owners died and because, but there's, but there's stacks of insurance that go along with this. Listen, I, I was tangentially involved with the collapse of that tower in Florida. And over a billion dollar, you know, hundreds of people died in that collapse of that condo on the beach in Florida, in Miami beach. And billions of dollars were collected in insurance and paid out to the families related to that. And so that was a private entity, but they were a county liability, There was state inspection liability. There was a lot of finger pointing. More importantly, there was a lot of insurance that goes around that. And then if it comes down to sovereign immunity and they want to stand up and say, you can't sue us because we're sovereign, then let's see what happens at the polls and with the legislature who would be able to waive sovereign immunity under those circumstances and give those 300 families or whatever it is, you'll never get back what they lost. The people, the loved ones, the grandparents, the parents, the children. No. But to give them some solace, something to compensate them in some small way for their loss.

[Ben Meisellis]

Michael Popak, I agree with you. Thanks for that analysis, everybody. Subscribe to Michael Popo's YouTube channel, the Legal AF YouTube channel. Subscribe now. Also, if you have a case, whether you were involved in an auto accident, trucking accident, employment case, medical malpractice, sexual assault, harassment. If you know someone who's been injured or was in a wrongful death situation where they died as a result of the negligence, reach out to Michael Popox firm. He started it because our viewers wanted it and said, hey, can you handle our cases? So he started a firm to handle the cases. Popak where can they find you?

[Michael Popak]

1-877-Popoc AF gets you to live human beings that will walk you through a process to evaluate your case. Or if you want to skip that and kind of start with a free consultation form, you can go and learn more about the firm and the things that we cover through a nationwide top flight plaintiff's lawyers that I work in collaboration with who are all really top flight in their jurisdictions because you need local lawyers that know what they're doing in these different courthouses. You can also go to www.the popoc firm.com There he is, Michael Popak.

[Ben Meisellis]

Subscribe also to his substack. Subscribe to the Legal AF YouTube. Subscribe to it all. Subscribe to the Midas Touch YouTube channel as well. Thanks Popac. Thanks Legal Aers comprehensive episode. We will touch base next time on Legal af. Have a great rest of your it.