Loading summary
Transcript48 lines
- [00:00]
Michael Popak
Packages by Expedia.
- [00:02]
Ben
You were made to occasionally take the hard route to the top of the Eiffel Tower.
- [00:08]
Michael Popak
We were made to easily bundle your.
- [00:09]
Ben
Trip Expedia made to travel flight Inclusive.
- [00:13]
Michael Popak
Packages are atoll protected.
- [00:16]
Ben
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, Monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.
- [00:43]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Back to school is better with Family freedom from T Mobile we'll pay off four phones up to $3200 and give you four free phones all on America's largest 5G network. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com familyfreedom up to $800 per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days. Free phones via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement eg Apple iPhone 16128 gigabyte $829.99 eligible trade in eg iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due if you pay off early or cancel contact T Mobile from.
- [01:13]
Ben
Unsolved mysteries to unexplained phenomena from comedy.
- [01:17]
Michael Popak
Goal to relationship fails.
- [01:18]
Ben
Amazon Music's got the most ad free top podcasts included with prime because the only thing that should interrupt your listening is.
- [01:27]
Michael Popak
Well, nothing.
- [01:29]
Ben
Download the Amazon Music app today.
- [01:36]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Today we'll attempt a feat once thought impossible. Overcoming high interest credit card debt. It requires merely one thing, a SoFi personal loan. With it you could save big on interest charges by consolidating into one low fee fixed rate monthly payment. Defy high interest debt with a Sofi personal loan. Visit sofi.com stuck to learn more. Loans originated by Sofi Bank NA member FDIC terms and conditions apply.
- [02:04]
Ben
NMLS 696891 it's the ruling we've been waiting for and that Donald Trump dreaded. The Federal Circuit Court of Appeals declaring that Donald Trump's trade war against the world is effectively unlawful. That Donald Trump did not have the authority to do the tariffs under the so called emergency powers that he was invoking. They've withheld their mandate until October. We'll talk about what that means where Trump does have the ability to appeal to the United States Supreme Court. But that court en banc decision seven to four decision meaning the entire panel of that Federal Circuit ruled against Donald Trump. We'll talk some updates on Abrego Garcia fighting back and demanding that a gag order be issued against the Trump regime for statements that they're making. Other updates there as well. Talk about Donald Trump firing the head of the CDC who he appointed and the Senate just confirmed. And we'll talk. It's kind of a theme here. Donald Trump also firing a Federal Reserve Board of governor whose term doesn't expire until 2038, Lisa Cook accusing her of mortgage fraud in order to terminate her for cause. She filed a lawsuit against the Trump regime. And on Friday night, the same judge who I believe is overseeing the case involving Lisa Cook in Washington, D.C. ruled that Donald Trump's efforts to deport on an expedited basis migrants who have been living in this country for a long period of time with zero due process violates due process rights. Ding, ding, ding. Let's bring in Michael Popak. Popak, we've got a lot to discuss. Did feel like a big victory from this Federal Circuit Court of Appeals. The composition of that court, it's not like when Trump ranted and raved. It's a liberal court. I mean, these people are not like liberal. I mean, they're come from a broad cross spectrum of, of political views. But George W. Bush appointees, old school conservatives, liberals, everybody.
- [04:18]
Michael Popak
Yeah. Well, let's just take it right there. Let me touch on a couple of things we're going to talk about in more detail today. First of all, happy Labor Day weekend. We celebrate organized labor here on the Midas Touch Network and on Legal af. It, among other things, is under attack. And there's cases that we'll be talking about if not today, on our various hot takes on Legal AF and Midas Touch. But we celebrate the role of organized labor in America's success. On the the case you just talked about, it was a 7 to 4 decision from a kind of a specialty appellate court, the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit. We don't normally talk about it because it deals with things like patents and intellectual property and trade. And yes, there were more Obama and Biden and Clinton appointees than any Trump appoint. In fact, there were no Trump appointees. But in the four in the dissent, it was made up of Obama and Biden appointees. So there was a cross section. But there were more judges that were in favor of finding that Trump had violated the Constitution and a particular statute and the will of Congress. Then there were other democratically appointed members of that panel that found for Donald Trump. So he got votes from Obama and Biden judges. He just didn't get enough of them. And there's a good reason for that. That's a complicated case that you and I will dive into in detail, including something that gets returned back to the Court of International Trade while we wait for a United States Supreme Court appeal that'll be coming and a stay of that order in the meantime. But you went, you went through the people who've been canned. I just did a hot take that'll be up on Legal, a substack that reminds people of what we're watching, which is the eating of the young season for, for Donald Trump, the cannibalization of the Trump officials that have been fired, replaced, removed, you know, investigated and the rest is just, it's just jaw dropping. He said coming in that he would have a much more stable administration led by Susie Wiles of the chief of staff. She's kept her job so far. I don't know why, because we all we've been watching in the last nine or 10 months is a completely erratic reflection of Donald Trump's own inconsistencies, his own erratic mind in the way he's handling major cabinet positions and federal officers. The head of the CDC lasted three weeks. She was Senate confirmed. The head of the Internal Revenue Service, Billy Long, Senate confirmed, lasted two months. The number two in the Treasury Department just got canned after six months. The he went after the Board of Governors. He went after the acting director of female because he had the audacity to suggest that FEMA should not be eliminated as a federal agency, which is what Pam Bondi has been busy doing. And the ones that have survived, Mike Waltz, national security director, who decided to put a journalist on his signal chat about bombing the Houthis. He got kicked upstairs to be the ambassador to the UN Billy Long got kicked upstairs. He got sent from the IRS to Iceland. He got banished to Iceland as a result of whatever he did in the two months picking a fight with Scott Bessette. And the ones that are surviving, talk about Hunger Games. Like Bondi and Tulsi Gabbard. They're only surviving because they are being forced to eat human flesh. They are cannibalizing and going after the enemies of Donald Trump both internally that have been finger pointed by like Laura Loomer or they're going after the external enemies of Donald Trump. In the case of Tulsi Gabbard, who was on thin ice for what she did. It's things that she did by going after Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton and going and the rest. And Pam Bondi the same. And then you got somebody finally like Dan Bongino who didn't get fired but he has a babysitter. There's a new deputy director coming in for the FBI to punish Bongino. This is not at the end of a term where I'm giving the rundown. This is 10 months in Ben to this administration and all of those people now gone are means that there are no people handling the levers of power, which may be a good thing for Donald Trump. He's hollowed out the Secretary of State, the State Department. He's hollowed out the Department of Education. He's hollowed out fema. He's hollowed out the Department of Justice. I mean these people don't exist and they're not being replaced. Hundreds of thousands of federal workers had to hit the pavement as a result of Donald Trump making us less secure as a nation because there's less adults in the room handling important matters to.
- [09:02]
Ben
The American people and literally finding the worst people for each position. Right. I mean starting at the top with Donald Trump, you could literally replace Donald Trump with my two dogs, Taquito and Chiquito and let former President Biden's economy just go into autopilot and we'd all be thriving, I think at this point. So you literally have someone who's doing all the wrong things that you could possibly do a destroyer in the Oval Office. Then you go to each position you're like who would be the worst human being to be Department of Homeland Security, the worst temperament. The word Christine Ohm like in, in the world. Like one of one uniquely bad Defense secretary. Who would be the worst human that you'd want to lead that someone with no experience. A Fox weekend host who can even make the weekday show. Someone with a background so you know, someone with a background of a very serious personal problems and issues who could be easily subjected to kompromat and other. Oh, you got it. You got to have Pete Hegseth become that. Oh let's you know, when you talk about health, who would be the worst human being for health? I mean maybe someone whose face looks like a 100 year old baseball glove. You know, telling you about health and saying I'm not going to do as impressive. I won't do it. But, but saying that he identifies mitochondrial defects in children when he looks at them in airports. Now they're just afraid you're going to give him freaking measles. Like who would be the worst person for small businesses like Kelly Leffler, a billionaire who hates small business. Who's. Who's trying to literally like, like who.
- [10:47]
Michael Popak
Would be intelligence A Russian Asset in Tulsi Gabbard.
- [10:51]
Ben
Tulsi Gabbard, who would be the worst there? Who, who would. And by the way, Tulsi talking about firing this story hasn't gotten enough attention. She fired the kind of main day to day US counterintelligence intelligence official on Russia who was preparing with the right data about how you're supposed to deal with Putin that Trump ignored. So then after, I guess Trump was pissed that this person who was the main Russia analyst was critical of Putin, she was going to be sent to Europe. She was an undercover person though, by the way. She was going to be sent to work at like a United States CIA affiliated company in Europe. And she got her security clearance pulled. Not only that, Tulsi Gabbard DB posted on social media a list of 37 people whose security clearance was going to get old. And her name was there, this lady's name was on it. They revealed the asset who was a spy against Russia, whose now life has been destroyed because she gave Trump the right advice on how you deal with Vladimir Putin.
- [12:00]
Michael Popak
And they fired the guy that did the team that did the analysis about the Iranian bombing right at the exact same time. And this is covered on Midas and illegal af. And look who they're appointing to be the head of the CDC. They got rid of the virologist, immunologist, PhD, doctor, scientist who should be heading the center for Disease Control. And she's now been replaced by a Peter Thiel, private equity investor who has no science background, no PhD. He's now gonna be running with RFK Jr also vax, denier science, denier medicine, denier lawyer at best. RFK Jr is as a minor environmental lawyer. This is who's now going to head the cdc. The guy that JD Vance's patron, his rabbi, Peter Thiel, whose biggest claim to fame people might know is that he backed Hulk Hogan against Gawker when Hulk Hogan's naked photos were published. This is the guy now heading the cdc.
- [13:03]
Ben
And then this guy, Eric Kurilla, General, they called him Kurilla the Guerrilla, you know, and he was the one who was responsible for coming up with the initial battle plans against Iran. He resigned. He left. And no one expected him to resign because he was given all of this authority. You know, there have been tons of cuts at the highest level in our military right now Hegseth has basically purged the military of all of our top generals. But you know, that's if you study history. This is actually what happens in authoritarian regimes, right? As Trump posts his photo now not just on the Department of Labor building, but on all buildings now have Donald Trump's face. If you go to Washington D.C. it just straight up looks like North Korea. Now his face everywhere in every building basically in D.C. and they're doing more, more faces on more buildings each and every day. So you do that because he alone can fix it. The people who he hires are only the people who tell him you alone can fix it, who are often the stupidest people. And everybody else who has some modicum of competence is purged. You talked about the irs. They got rid of seven IRS commissioners already. Seven in seven months. Seven. Why? Because Donald Trump wants to use the IRS to go after his political opponents the way Bill Pulte is using the Fair Housing Administration to claim that everyone who's a Trump political opponent commits mortgage fraud. And he couldn't get it from the last guy to go through people's individual tax returns. And so he's going on to the next person who finally agrees to do it. So with that as background pop, tell us what went down in this Federal Circuit Court of Appeals.
- [14:49]
Michael Popak
That reminded me when you, that lead in reminded me the old joke about, you know, the punchline is, yeah, but Mrs. Lincoln, how is the play? I mean, you know, things have gone so terribly for the Trump administration and we're here for it. Our audience is here for it. We thank you all for taking time out of your Labor Day weekend for it. So they, we, we had a ruling about two different types of tariffs that are the foundation of Donald Trump's failing economic plan. One we call the reciprocal tariffs, which is that big board that Howard Lutnick, the Commerce Secretary, was running around in the Rose Garden and in April during the Liberation Day, apparently liberating America from its economy on that day. But they were. 150 countries are now going to have all these tariffs that average 20%. They've never been tariff before. We got to fix the trade imbalance and we're going to do it with this crappy economic formula that we all figured out was that's not reciprocal tariffs. That's you're trying to fix the trade deficit in every country by coming up with the number that gives. It just was so beyond non scientific or mathematical. But those are, we call those the reciprocal tariffs. The second type of tariffs that was the subject of this case, this order that just came out from the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals dealt with what, what they refer to and we sort of refer to as the trafficking tariffs, that has to do with the tariffs placed on our friends like Canada and Mexico and China, not our friend about their, their refusal to help with the fentanyl crisis in America. By the way, very little fentanyl comes through Canada. I mean, it's like you could carry it in a suitcase during a year. A little differently in Mexico and China is a whole different story. But that's another type of tariff. The tariffs that were not the subject. I want to kind of give people talking points here. The tariffs that were not declared unconstitutional or illegal or unlawful by this panel 7 to 4 are what we call the sectoral tariffs that have to do with sectors like aluminum, copper, automobiles, chips, you know, computer chips, you know, clothing, you know, that kind of thing. Those tariffs were not the subject of the appeal and have and are going to be allowed to go forward. But two thirds of the billions and billions and billions or trillions of dollars that Donald Trump wanted to collect to wallpaper over his failing economic policy have been called unconstitutional and lawful. Now, they haven't been technically struck down or blocked, and I'll tell you why in a minute. But let's talk about the decision. We knew where this was going because several months ago when two different groups filed their suits that got joined together in one appeal, one representing a group of small businesses that were getting screwed by high tariffs, like they're going to go out of business with the new tariffs that they have to pay. And the other about 12 or 13 states which came together. And one ended up at the Court of International Trade in New York, a specialty three court, three judge panel that we normally don't talk about. Except Donald Trump dragged the case over there because he said, oh, trade has to go to this court in New York. All right. He was hoping he'd get a better forum there. And then another, another case ended up staying in D.C. with a federal judge with I think with Judge Contreras. So those we get the big ruling that you and I talked about at length from the Court of International Trade, which said 3, 0, you don't have the power under the one statute that you are claiming you have the power under Trump. The statute we're talking about is the International Emerge Economic Emergency Procedure Powers act, I. E. But came out in the 70s, 76 or so to give whoever's sitting in the office of the president the ability to not to tariff, the ability in an economic emergency to do certain things about import, about export. There's a certain amount of punishment you can do, certain amount of regulation you can do, but not tariffs. Why? Because Congress in the Constitution is Given the sole power to tax, excise, fine and tariff, unless they delegate to the President expressly, in some sort of statute, part of their constitutional power. And that's what the whole fight was over. Did Congress expressly delegate to the President by IEPA the statute the right to tariff his way into, you know, you know, fixing his economic problems by collecting so much money to replace the money we're not collecting anymore and cut taxes, yes or no. And to use it as his blunt, his blunt force object, his blunt instrument against our allies and friends in global diplomacy or lack of global diplomacy. Can he do it, yes or no? So three judge panel, Court of International Trade says, no, you don't have that power. But they were. That order, that injunction against the tariffs were blocked by this Court of appeals that we're talking about now, while they continue to collect money now by collecting billions of dollars. That's led the government, you know, mainly the Commerce Secretary Lutnick, Treasury Secretary Bessant, to say things out loud like, you can't take away the money. The money justifies the violation of the law. Look at all the money. But that's not how rule of law works. You either have the power to do this or you don't. And the fact that you've, you know, it's like, well, the volume of money that I stole at the bank justifies the crime. No, that's not how that works. So they go into this appellate panel. Eleven judges sat for this, what's called on banc. One sat out and during it, Judge, a couple of judges said the obvious at the very beginning to the lawyers for the Trump administration. Let me stop you right here. Where, point to me where in the language of ipa, the statute is any reference to the T word tariff. Go ahead, I got time. And of course, the Trump administration had to admit it's not in there. And they said, well, the Nixon case or this case or that case. And they said, yeah, but that was under a different statute and that was only for a short amount of time as an economic punishment, not a long term strategy, which is what you're trying to make it. So we knew that they were in trouble from the oral argument because it looked like there was enough votes to vote this down. They were so panicked then. But the Trump administration, in like the last 24 hours, no, it either got word that this order was coming out and it was against them, or they were just like, you know, you know, like I get sometimes about my cases, I just get like a sixth sense that an order is coming out or something bad is about to happen that I have to deal with. They filed last minute in the morning yesterday declarations affidavits from the Treasury Secretary, Commerce Secretary and State begging them the court not to rule against them and if they ruled against them to allow the collection of the tariffs to continue because they would be get this embarrassed internationally if they had to pull the tariffs, that they were using it as clubs against enemies and allies alike, that they needed it in the Russia Ukraine peace negotiations which don't even exist any longer and no ceasefire. Hundreds of people being killed in Kiev and other places by by Russia as an F you to Donald Trump because he's not being sanctioned economically by Donald Trump. But they actually tried to use that. That's how disgusting they are that well we need that club. You have to but not argue there.
- [22:26]
Ben
Would have been peace, there would be peace. But for you, yeah, the economy thriving. It's all your fault. That's worse.
- [22:34]
Michael Popak
They said to the about the judges that our economic, our economy will go down the drain if you rule against this. So first of all, it was after the record had been shut, after the hearing had been held and the order obviously had been drafted. So it was a little bit late to be making that argument even if it had any merit.
- [22:52]
Ben
Not just late sanctionable like in what context? While you're waiting for an order, after briefing is closed, do people send declarations saying if you rule against me, you're going to embarrass me. If any litigant, if you and I had a client do that, we would get referrals to the state bar to.
- [23:13]
Michael Popak
Say right, agree, agreed, agreed. So they do that. I said oh. And I actually did a hot take on it, not knowing the order was coming out. A little bit later. Order comes out and it's exactly what we thought. In 50 pages it's unsigned, meaning the seven got together and collectively got behind this one decision. And it's as simple. Let me make it as simple as possible because it's really simple. You look, you start with the U.S. constitution. Is there anywhere in there that gives the President the right to tariff? The answer is no. Where is that right reposited in the Article 1 Congress. Okay. Can Congress delegate? Yes. How do they delegate? They have to expressly delegate. Let's look at I EAPA the statute, is it in there? No. Now we're up to the major questions doctrine, which is a made up doctrine that the MAGA right wing of the Supreme Court made up during the Biden administration to drive them crazy and to strike down things like the loan forgiveness program. And under the major questions doctrine, they then declared that if it's a major issue, like a president tariffing 150 countries, that would be something that Congress would have to speak clearly on and put in a separate statute, or at least in the statute you're dealing with. And if it's not there, then that's a major question that has to go back to Congress and have them pass a statute. So they turn the major question doctrine back on the, on the, on Supreme Court, knowing it's going there, and said major questions doctrine. It's not in ipa. I can't find the word tariff. So, no, you don't get the tariff. Now, they were very clear. They said, we're not declaring whether the economic emergency was proper. We're not, we're not touching that. We're not. We'll assume it was, even though I'm not sure it was. We're not going to even deal with whether the IPA allows tariffs under certain circumstances. Not going to deal with that. Just these two tariffs, reciprocal and trafficking. Are they allowed under ipa? And the answer is no. Now, what did they do about it next? They said, we're going to remand the case back to the Court of International Trade with direction to figure out whether their nationwide injunction is too broad, given the Supreme Court's decision in May, that took away the right, not in all circumstances, but in a lot of circumstances, for trial courts to issue nationwide injunctions. So take a look at your injunction court. We're sending it back to you. We've already made the ruling that it's unconstitutional, legal. Now you come up with the remedy. If you're okay with it, and you, you apply the Supreme Court decision in a case we call casa, then fine. Because I think with the states involved, it's going to be enough to do an exception to allow for a nationwide injunction. But that's been sent back there. But the whole case has been put on ice in terms of they can still collect all these tariffs that they keep, that they keep rubbing their hands and glee over until it gets to the United States Supreme Court sometime in October. Meaning there could be an emergency application and a shadow docket move by Donald Trump. But more likely it'll end up on the regular term because they're allowing the collection of the of. There's no irreparable harm to the Trump administration because the money is, keeps rolling in. So I think it ends up maybe shadow. I want to hear from you, Ben. Maybe regular docket. But it's going to the Supremes on this one, right, Ben?
- [26:22]
Ben
Definitely going to the Supremes. Definitely going to the supreme soon. It's going to be expedited briefing. I think you'll have a decision by the Supreme Court before Thanksgiving, but I think you'll have a hearing sometime in October. I think probably right around that October 15th or 14th date, I think is when you'll actually have the hearing briefing before then. Let's face it, this has already been briefed. And let's face it, the Supreme Court has already made up its mind how it's going to rule. The question is, can we get into their minds where they frequently make the wrong decision on an issue like this? Are they going to, are they going to allow Donald Trump to get away with it again? Or because it's such a important big issue, does this become like the rare times like Abrego Garcia, where they said, look, you got to facilitate the return. You can't kidnap people and send them to locations in other countries. We'll let you get away with a lot. But that one we're calling you the.
- [27:26]
Michael Popak
Biggest difference, But I want to hear your opinion on this. The biggest difference is that in the war powers like the Alien Enemies act, all of that, they were very squeamish about putting any limits on Donald Trump's ability to declare an enemy incursion, a predatory incursion, a war. And like they just deferred on complete deference to his factual assertions about what was going on. But here, I think very smartly, the appellate court said we're not going to get into whether the economic emergency was present or not. Good. We're just going to say, even if it was, do you have the power to tariff? How do you think they apply the Major Questions act or do they suddenly forget, have amnesia, convenient amnesia, because Biden's not in office and they no longer apply the major questions doctrine. Because if they do, I think they have, I think it's a good chance that they say he doesn't have the power to tariff in this way. What do you think?
- [28:19]
Ben
Well, let's talk about it when we come back from our first quick break. A reminder, everybody. Michael Popak has started his own new law firm. We're getting lots of cases and clients from our viewers and listeners. Go to thepopocfirm.com or call 877-popakaf. Go to thepopoc firm.com or go to or call 877-popoc af. It's a free consultation. If you've been injured in an auto accident, a trucking accident, negligence case. If you know someone who's been injured, if you know someone who has been killed in a horrible accident, a catastrophic injury, you're the medical malpractice, malpractice, sexual assault, sexual harassment. Give Popak a call. I know you trust him with the show and so give him a call and he'll and him and his team, they have lawyers across the country and that firm is growing pretty quickly. So great work there. A reminder subscribe to Michael Popak Substack the Legal AF sub stack is growing really fast. One of the top 10 retailers rising and it's almost was number almost. Very close to being the number one rising substack. So go check it out on Substack. Subscribe to the Legal AF YouTube channel. Would love to see both the substack and the Legal AF YouTube channel continue to crush it and be number one. All right, first quick break of the show. We will be right back after just these very quick messages.
- [29:38]
Michael Popak
Fall is planting season. But did you know that many plants and trees actually do better when planted this time of year? But you have to know where to start. That's why I love fast growing trees.com it doesn't matter if you live in the sunny south or if the air is getting chilly where you are. Their plant experts can help you find the perfect fit for your space. They have all the plants your yard needs. Fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, shrubs, and so much more. And with their alive and thrive guarantee your plants arrive happy and healthy. Plus, all plants and trees are locally grown in the US So they're ready to thrive in your yard. When I order from fast growing trees I was blown away by how easy it was. I saved hundreds compared to a landscaper and I didn't have to waste a Saturday driving to a nursery only to find they were out of what I wanted. My tree showed up right at my door, perfectly packaged and ready to plant. And now they're thriving. This fall they have the best deals for your yard, up to half off on select plants and other deals and listeners to our show get 15% off their first purchase when using the code LEGAL AF at checkout. That's 15% off at 15 fast growing trees.com using the code LEGAL AF@ checkout. Now's the perfect time to plant. Use Legal AF to save Today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions may apply. Check out the link below or in the show notes and support the show. This episode of Legal AF is brought to you by Moinkbox did you know four companies control over 80% of the US meat industry? And that the largest share of US pork is now controlled by China? These meat giants use mobster like tactics to crush American family farms, flooding our food supply with sketchy additives and low quality meat. So what can you do about it? Here's where Moink comes in. Featured on Shark Tank. Moink is standing up for family farms and your food security. Their meat comes from animals raised outdoors like nature intended. Their farmers get an honest day's pay and Moink delivers straight to your doorstep at a price you can actually afford. This is real American meat. Born, raised, raised and harvested right here in the usa. Moink is helping save rural America. I love it and you will too. Join the Moink movement today. Support American family farms and join the wait for it Moink movement today@moinkbox.com legal af right now. And get free bacon for a year. That's one year of the best bacon you'll ever taste. But only for a limited time. Spelled M O I n k box.com legal af that's mikebox.com legal af welcome.
- [32:14]
Ben
Back to legal af. Thank you to those important sponsors who helped fund this show. We're really grateful for them. The discount codes are in the description below. Check them out. So, Popak, you asked if I think the Supreme Court will apply the major questions doctrine. The short answer is that they'll provide some contorted logic here and the same way. And we'll talk about the Federal Reserve in a bit with Lisa Cook's lawsuit. They're just making stuff up as they go along right now. So all their doctrines are out the windows, right. And you know, they've created in their own mind a fake carve out for the Federal Reserve when it comes to Donald Trump firing independent agency heads and said, look, and they, and it's part of their appeasement, right? They were saying, just stay away from the Federal Reserve and you can, we'll give you the other agencies. But as I've always said, when you give Donald Trump an inch, he takes your life. So the Supreme Court says stay away from that. And look, Donald Trump's a sexual abuser. Like he, he's, he doesn't understand. No, he's, he's a bad, he's a bad human. He's separately a felon. On, on fraud cases. He's a civil fraud, you know, across the board, like a bad dude. So you tell someone like that, don't do it. They do it. They do it more. And so Donald Trump's like, oh, you don't want me to go after the Federal Reserve, Boom. I'm going to fire the Federal Reserve governor. And I, and I'm going to just make up cause as, as a pretext to then go after the Federal Reserve chairman and destroy its overall independence. We'll talk about Lisa Cook in a second. So it's the only reason to have some degree of confidence the Supreme Court does the right thing here, is that this taxing power is expressly the power of Congress. So you can say to them, well, look, when it comes to war, we stay out if Donald Trump can claim like war. But this is taxing. That's Congress. And, but that's why Rubio, I think, started sending those letters knowing they would lose at the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals. But two, but two audiences, one, the American public to blame their failed diplomacy, their failed economy on the courts, not on Donald Trump. Trump was going to fix it. We were in a golden age. The court screwed it up, but separately to the Supreme Court to then say this was a war powers issue. You are now impacting the war in Ukraine. Trump had it perfectly lined. I don't believe this just so you know argument. Trump had this perfect meeting. It was big, it was beautiful. With Vladimir Putin. They were about to solve Russia's invasion in Ukraine. We were about to get it done. One of the things we were using as leverage was tariffs. But now courts, you've interfered and that's why Donald Trump has not been able to bring peace to Ukraine in 24 hours. It's this lived out far leftist Federal Circuit court of Appeal, trade judges, they were the ones who did it.
- [35:27]
Michael Popak
I agree. Because, because, because what you're saying, you're right. They try to cloak everything under a national security or diplomacy to try to bring it back and whip it back to the president's powers, to try to make it more Article 2 powers instead of Article 1 powers. That's what we're going to see as the fight. There's even an argument that John Sauer, the, the Solicitor general for Donald, Donald Trump's former criminal defense appellate lawyer, but now our number four in the Department of Justice where he's now arguing now, Ben, I don't know if you caught this. He's now arguing that these parties, like the states and the small businesses, they don't have the power to talk about the Donald Trump treading on the powers of the other of the other branches, interbranch problems only Congress can bring a lawsuit for like impoundment of Funds and other issues. So his new argument now is these cases should be dismissed because these parties are the wrong parties. If Congress has a. Has a problem with their powers being trampled by the executive branch, that inter. Interbranch thing, they got to bring it that. That that branch has to bring it. And you know, which. Which means nobody will bring it while MAGA is still in charge. Another good reason to the midterm election to flush out MAGA from Congress. And then you saw. Yeah. So that. You're right. So the major questions doctrine is so malleable or what's the word they like to use? Capacious. It's just. It's just you can stretch it in any direction depending upon what the arguments and this huge dollar amount that they're using to bludgeon the Supreme Court, and they tried to use the appellate court, which is billions and almost trillions of dollars are coming in. You can't the policy and declare it to be unlawful. Look at the dollars. I don't understand how that's an argument about whether you have the right to do that or not. But it may, it may appeal to one or two votes on the Supreme Court, like, well, it's too late. You know, Jeannie's out of the bottle. Even though he didn't really have the power, we're not going to stop it now.
- [37:31]
Ben
Let's talk about Abrego Garcia. Michael Popak, you've been on this since Abrego Garcia was kidnapped and sent to a concentration camp in El Salvador. And I think from the very outset, you and I have made it very clear I don't know Abrego Garcia's background enough to opine, is this a good guy or a bad guy? I'm not vouching for him personally. I can tell you that his union workers in Maryland said that he was a good guy. They liked working with him. He showed up every year when he was supposed to show up to check in with the immigration office. He could have been deported to any other country other than El Salvador, but he was kidnapped and sent to El Salvador. When I speak about Abrego, I speak about due process rights, because where you start to infringe on the due process rights of any individual, you start to infringe on the due process rights of all. And you may say, well, but these migrants, they're not citizens. They shouldn't get due process rights. Well, by that logic, then you could be declared a migrant and the government can say, well, we don't believe you're a citizen. We think you're a migrant, and we should not give you due process rights or you look a certain way. So we're going to deport you first to a concentration camp and then ask questions later. And that's not a hypothetical that I'm giving. That's what they're doing. The ICE agents go to swap meets. Home Depot, parking lots, factories, farms. They round up people, whether they're citizens or not citizens. They throw them into detention centers or concentration camps, and then they ask questions later. Oh, you're a citizen. You get released. Oh, you're a citizen. We'll let you go for now. Oh, you're a migrant. We're sending you to wherever. So that's why this is an important issue. And due process rights do exist to people who are inside the United States. We should want that in our country. We should not want our country to look like, you know, one of these authoritarian regimes that just pick people up and torture them. That's not what we want in our. That's not what we want in the United States of America. So, Popak, take us through what happened with Abrego. What's the latest there? And then there was the ruling on Friday from the federal judge last night that basically said what I said, which is, look, if you want to do expedited removals of people who just crossed the border, like, you get them kind.
- [40:11]
Michael Popak
Of got their foot on US Soil for a second, all good, you can do that.
- [40:15]
Ben
But where people have been living here for 37 years or 20 years, and they've been productive citizens or productive migrants potentially on their way to a hundreds.
- [40:27]
Michael Popak
Of miles from the border, you know.
- [40:30]
Ben
Then, you know, you're gonna send, you know, someone who's been here for 25 years who doesn't even know what country they were born in because they came in here with their parents, they never lived there. You're gonna send them back there. Come on. You know, or. Or if you're gonna do it, just give them a due process rights with a procedure and. And a hearing. Because what the regime is doing is they dismiss all charges, then they do expedited removal. They don't want the process, and they just throw you out right away. So, Popo, tell us what's going on with the break.
- [41:00]
Michael Popak
We're going to talk. We're going to talk a lot about Judge Gia Cobb, because she's going to overlap with a couple of our segments today. One on the removal issue on due process, and one on Lisa Cook on due process. Same judge, and this judge has been the Donald Trump thing thinks he's an unstoppable object, but she's the immovable force that is stopping the Trump administration from violating the Fifth Amendment due process rights of people with a very good track record there. So remember, she's, you know, go get her action figure. Put her up as a poster in the rooms of your children. Judge Gia Cobb, we're going to talk about her, but first, let's talk about what's going on with Abrego Garcia, with Judge Zinnis and Judge Crenshaw and the new motions that have been filed since just since his release for, for a weekend and then brought back into detention and by the Trump administration and the reaction of these two judges in the pending motions. First of all, there's been a change in lawyers for Abrego Garcia, which I will touch on on another hot take. The lawyers that were representing at one time Donald Trump that ended up representing Abrego Garcia are gone. And he's now being represented by some amazing not that those lawyers weren't amazing, but but by some new amazing lawyers that I actually know, Sean Hecker being one of them with his law firm out of New York for free pro bono. That's just the that's just what our profession is all about. And since then, number of developments. Last Friday, he was released from federal detention, Abrego Garcia, because the magistrate, Judge Holmes in Tennessee took a look at the indictment, cast a jaundiced eye on the indictment, was very skeptical about the indictment, two counts on human trafficking or human smuggling. And based on the evidence that was presented, including she had a witness testimony in her courtroom, an evidentiary hearing about it. She eventually said there's no grounds to keep him in federal detention. The Trump administration wanted him moved if he ever got out, into immigration detention. She kept him longer in federal detention related to the indictment to protect him from the government, which his lawyers wanted at the time. But finally Friday came and he got popped out with the orders from Judge Holmes that he report on Monday morning, this past Monday to the immigration office of the ICE offices in Baltimore, Maryland, where he's from by telephone, she said. And that was consistent with an order by Judge Zinnis. Can't forget her. She's the, she's the judge in Maryland who's been sitting over the constitutional violations heaped on Abrego Garcia by the Trump administration and prosecutorial misconduct since the beginning. She's the one that had her order to have him returned from El Salvador, where he was deported, as you said, illegally admitted by the Trump administration. Tortured upon arrival and was and was required, demanded, commanded to be returned by not only Judge Zinnis, not only by the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals, but by 90 at the United States Supreme Court. He finally came back under this phony manufactured indictment in Tennessee. And now but Judge Zinnis always has had jurisdiction over him. She said, when he's out, he's under my jurisdiction. He's to be brought back to Maryland and he's to be given the same status of release as he had originally. Well, of course, Donald Trump defied that order, sucked him back into the ice detention again, blasted all sorts of inappropriate prejudicial postings on social media, on Homeland Security's official website and social media accounts, and Donald Trump pictures of him with a blurred out agent be walking on Homeland Security posting that says this MS.13 gang banger will never see the light of day again. In just in Liberty, you had Kristi Noem, Pam Bondi, Donald Trump, Tom Homan, all universally trying to club him to death in the court of public opinion, calling him, and I mean this, this, this was the, this was the palm card, this was the talking points. Child predator, serial wife beater, Ms. 13 gang banger, whatever that is. Ms. 13 leader, human trafficker. And that's not even what the charges were. And the rest, I mean, I mean on cue, on command, this is what they said about him. The problem with all of that is that he's no longer just in the immigration side of the case. He is a criminal indicted. He's an indicted criminal defendant in a case that means he's entitled to Fifth and Sixth Amendment rights. And according to the local rules in Tennessee and every other federal district, he's entitled to not have the prosecutors against him convict him, prejudice the future jury, call him out to be a criminal, call out his character, say, talk about evidence, make references to him being in a gang. They're not allowed to do any of that or it violates his constitutional rights. So there's two motions that are pending in front of Judge Crenshaw and then I'll talk about one in front of Judge Zinnis. The two in front of Crenshaw are basically based on the same set of facts. All of this prosecutorial misconduct that I'm talking about, there's a motion to dismiss the indictment because of the prosecutorial misconduct heaped on the slender shoulders of Abrego Garcia, including trying to force him and extort him to give up his rights to defend himself in that trial by taking a deal to go to Costa Rica and admit guilt or if not, you're going to Uganda, which also backs up into the Judge Zenith side of the case. All of that, the threat, the extortion, the punishment, the unrelenting campaign against him in the court of public opinion and all the statements that were made by the White House against him, including one where they trolled Obama at the same time they put up that famous poster of Obama by fairly, you know, the hope one. Instead they had a picture of Abrego Garcia with those red, white and blue paintings underneath. It said MS.13 but with an Obama logo in it. I mean, this was the official accounts of the administration. So Sean Hecker filed two things. One, that motion to dismiss the indictment as a remedial punishment that a federal judge has to punish a out of control prosecutor's office in the Department of Justice. There's no other way he, you know, the judge is going to say he may or may not be guilty, but you have forfeited your right Department of Justice to prosecute this case. And the only way I can fix it because you've so screwed up his constitutional rights is to dismiss the indictment outright. I think they've got a very good case there and they're emboldened by it. And that's why they're not agreeing to plead guilty to an indictment. They think they're going to get kicked. At the same time, they just filed a motion for a gag order. Wouldn't we all like the Trump administration to go away and be gagged? They certainly do. So they filed a very sober, you know, wasn't bombastic, very sober motion with Judge Crenshaw asking for him to enter an order requiring that Homeland Security and Pam Bondi and Tom Holman and everybody in the administration stop bashing and accusing their client of all of these crimes and disgusting, depraved behavior. You know, on their official accounts and otherwise. They cited to about 14 different with links to videos and appearances at on Newsmax and Fox and press conferences and social media of all these people as grounds. They say it violates the local rule, which it does, about extrajudicial outside the courtroom, statements by the prosecutors. It violates the Tennessee rules of ethics code of conduct and they want it to stop. And so the judge has set a briefing schedule related to that. I think by mid September, we're going to get a gag order, much like Judge Merchand did against Trump in the criminal case in New York, Chutkan did against Trump in the election interference case in Washington. That's going to, that's going to happen. As he considers into October the motion to dismiss the indictment, Zinnis in Maryland called everybody together with an emergency hearing. She ordered him not to be removed, that he stay in Virginia and the detention center where he's at. He stayed through October. When she holds an evidentiary hearing about his writ of habeas corpus, she's very concerned, she's expressed at the hearing about the threat to go to Uganda. He's indicated that he's applying, he's applying for political asylum or asylum here in the United States to basically be protected from the Trump administration, which is torturing him and making him try to disappear. She's pulling this all together, giving the lawyers time to seek asylum. And if they can't get it through the immigration courts, I think, Ben, that she, as a remedy for this kind of misconduct and abuse of his civil liberties, may be able to award him asylum sitting as a federal judge. What do you think about that?
- [50:25]
Ben
I think that's where this is headed. And I think that as the tr, you know, I think what Abrego is showing more significantly though, and this is why, you know, certain people step up and in these moments and do the right things and fight back. And Abrego is one of those people, you know, and look, the Trump regime, we covered this before they gave him an opportunity. Just go to Costa Rica, plead guilty to a few of these things, just make us look like we're not total pieces of, you know what, and, and then you can go to Costa Rica, live your life with your family. Let's, let's make a deal, right? The federal government saying that let's make a deal. And just think about it. He's been tortured in an El Salvador concentration camp. He was used as a propaganda pawn by Bukele, you know, in that weird meeting that was set up with that when, when the senator from Maryland finally showed up and was there to, you know, help him out. Then you go to Tennessee, you get arrested on trumped up federal charges for a 2022 traffic stop. You get thrown in prison, you're called a wife beater, an animal. You're said that your wife actually secretly hates you by the federal government. They say we're going to destroy his life. The government's using millions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars, doing a marketing campaign. Mississippi 13 this. And then they offer him a deal. Just go, just go to Costa Rica and take and you'll be fine and let's just end this. And he's like, no, I'm not going to plead guilty to things that I didn't do. And when you stand up like that. I'm going to answer your question more directly here, though, Popak. The Trump regime eventually loses and folds. I think the international community seeing that right now on these trade deals and when you stand up to Trump, what that looks like, I mean, obviously Putin's known that from the outset that Donald Trump is all bluster when he says there's going to be sanctions or this or that. I mean, certainly more going on there. But you can't make deals with this guy. You can't appease him. And ultimately, what I think this federal judge is going to do is I agree with you. I think that she will use her powers to handle, to hand the Trump regime a massive, massive loss. Whether that's granting him asylum based on the persecute, you know, based on what's taking place right now, you know, or, you know, the chart or one of the, the outcome, I think will happen. Charges get dropped, he goes to Costa Rica. That's where, that's where I think this is heading.
- [53:10]
Michael Popak
He has said that he's okay with the Costa Rican thing, but now he's applying for asylum. But look how smart Sean Hecker and his legal team are. You know, we like to do on legal AF compliments, implement people who are running into the burning building to save the rule of law and democracy. The only thing you and I knew about Abrego Garcia was just, just, just photos, you know, photos of him and with his wife and pictures trying to humanize him. But they were actually able, knowing that it was a ruse that I said, why don't you come in for an interview on Monday? Judge Holmes was like, just phone in on Monday when you come to Baltimore, you don't need to go there. But they called him in for an interview. Knowing that Sean Hecker and his team arranged a very quick press conference out in front of the steps before he stepped in. And for the first time, we got to hear Kilmer Abrego Garcia speak. It was in Spanish, it was translated. But just to see him as a human being, talk about his trust in our legal system, his trust in God, his trust in his family, his thanks for the supporters. You not just humanizing him because that Donald Trump's like a, like a serial killer. He doesn't want to humanize his victims. He wants to treat, treat them like inanimate objects where he doesn't have any emotional attachment to them. That's how he wants us to feel about Abrego Garcia, a guy that they are spending, as you said, they're using the entirety of the federal resources, the bully pulpit of the presidency, all of the resources of the Department of Justice and the FBI to pulverize this guy out of existence and make him disappear before our very eyes. Why? For what reason? He's not, it's not like he, he leaked nuclear secrets to the Russians. It's not like he's a serial killer. He's a serial child molester like Donald Trump's other friends. Why are we, why are we using him as the poster child to destroy his life? I don't know quite what he did. All I know is every judge that's ever had a look at his case, I mean, every judge, Judge Holmes, the magistrate judge in Tennessee, the immigration judge looking at his reasons not to be removed to El Salvador, Judge Zinnis, the Fourth Circuit twice, and the United States Supreme Court nine zero has sided with Abrego Garcia. He's more Muhammad Ali Cassius Clay as a resistor than he is some sort of gang banger, whatever that is. Mississippi, 13 person that needs to be taken off the streets because he was working with a group of people in construction at Home Depot to support his US Citizen wife and children. And the fact that Donald Trump is digging in here to destroy him, to see this guy and the quality of his character, he was just tortured in El Salvador. It was so smart that we got to hear from the real Abrego Garcia. And the more I hear from him, I mean, I was already all in for him in terms of process, in terms of due process, the more I know our audience is committed to supporting everything that Abrego Garcia stands for, not just as a person, but as a proxy. For what? Everything that's wrong in the Trump administration.
- [56:18]
Ben
Last quick break of the show. When we come back, we still have got a lot discussed. We'll talk Lisa Cook, who is before the same judge as the judge that just ruled against the Trump regime. So you'll briefly touch on that. Popak talk about that, maybe some other topics when we come back. A reminder, Michael Popak has started a new law firm in just a short period of time. It's got a ton of clients from our legal AF listeners and viewers. Go to ThePopoc Firm.com or call 877-popocaf that's 877-popoc AF or go to the popoc firm.com if you've been injured in a car accident, a trucking accident, if you've been injured in any acts of negligence by third parties. Victim of sexual assault or sexual harassment Medical malpractice. If you have a case like that, or if you know someone who does a wrongful death case where someone's died based on the negligence of others, these are the types of cases that the POPOC firm is handling. Give Popak a call. He works with lawyers across the country and it's a free consultation to see if you have a case. A reminder as well subscribe to Michael Popo's substack. The Legal AF sub stack is absolutely crushing it. Check that out. And check out Michael Popo's YouTube channel. The legal AF YouTube channel as well. We will take our last quick break of the show. We will be right back after these messages.
- [57:40]
Michael Popak
Let's be honest. Most of us are tired, stressed and dealing with some kind of pain. And what do we do? We power through because the last thing we want is another prescription. And let's face it, nothing in the medicine cabinet ever actually works. That's why I'm so glad I found CB Distillery. Their CBD products are helping so many people, myself included, sleep better, feel more relaxed, and ease everyday pain. The best part? It's all made with premium quality natural ingredients. They've got a full range of solutions for stress, sleep, pain after exercise, and even CBD for pets. Their soothing relief balm is a huge customer favorite and so are their sleep products. My favorite is the 1000mg CBD relief and Relaxation Tincture. It's been a real game changer for me. So if you're tired of being tired and stressed or just want to feel better in your body, check out CBD from CB Distillery and right now you can save 25% off your entire purchase. Visit CBDistillery.com and use promo code legal AF that CB Distillery.com promo code legal AF CBDistillery.com specific product availability depends on individual state regulations. You know what they don't tell you about hitting a certain age? The gray just shows up like an uninvited guest. I'd look in the mirror and think, when did that happen? I don't have time for salon visits or messy kits that feel like chemistry class gone wrong. I needed something quicker, cleaner and, yeah, simpler. This podcast is sponsored by Simpler Hair Color. Simpler Hair Color is the easiest way to eliminate Grayson. Modern men deserve simpler, safer ways to care for their appearance. With Simpler Hair Color, you've got gentler ingredients without the messy mixing or constant trips to the salon or drugstore. Like I had an important meeting last week and I wanted to look my best so I used simpler hair color. My grays were gone quickly with no drips and no delay. I tried the dark brown shade and it blended with my natural color perfectly. It was founded by Snehal Patel and Mitch Brown, two guys who are just done with harsh dyes and DIY disasters. Simpler hair color works for both hair and beard and one can gives you as many uses as up to four boxes of drugstore dye. And yes, it's made right here in the USA with over 9,500 five star reviews. Say goodbye to grays the easy way with simpler hair color. Head to simplerhaircolor.com/legal af and use code legal af for 15% off your order. Once again, that's simplerhaircolor.com legalif for 15% off and make sure you use my promo code legal af so they know I sent you.
- [60:25]
Ben
Welcome back to Legal af. Thank you to all of our sponsors that keep this show going. Their discount codes are in the description below. Popak A good transition to talk about Lisa Cook, the Federal Reserve Board of governor who was, I believe, unlawfully terminated by the Trump regime for cause, notwithstanding the independence of the Federal Reserve as a precursor to Trump's ultimate intention of firing Jerome Powell as well. He kind of moved from Powell to her. I think we should talk about the federal judge who's been assigned to that case. Really only in the context of she just ruled against Donald Trump on a big immigration case, so maybe touch on that briefly and then transition to talk about Lisa Cook.
- [61:07]
Michael Popak
Yeah, great. So it all ties back to Judge Gia Cobb, who we need to follow closely here on Legal af because she's at the forefront of a number of these cases. The common denominator is due process. She is hot and bothered, has her hair on fire about a Trump administration that is running roughshod over our constitutional rights. Have anybody in the United States has the constitutional rights of due process depending upon their status, where they reside, how long they've been here? But even illegal immigrants have constitutional rights if they're in the United States. That's something the Trump administration never wants to acknowledge because it gets in the way of their evil plan to just put people in the back of vans and trains and planes and make them disappear. And as I said recently, to make it personal for a minute, I come from a family where there's no there's a lot of Popox missing because they were put on trains without due process and sent to concentration camps and never came out. So I've got a special thing about due process and about people being disappeared because it happened to my own family. So Gia Cobb, Judge Cobb ruled, and you touched on at the beginning of our podcast today, that while the Supreme Court and Xi are okay with people who are near the border on immigration, who just get their foot in, you know, they just crossed the Rio Grande. They just, they just touched US Soil. Them being turned around without due process because their constitutional, their claim on constitutional rights of due process are pretty limited. And so a summary removal process for people at or near the border, I guess, is okay. But the further you get from the border and the more interior to the United States you get, the more, if you're doing it on a scale, the more your constitutional rights are implicated and the more, the more rights you have for due process. She said 100 miles to the border, okay? Supreme Court's upheld that. Over 100 miles deep in the interior of Texas and these other states still using the removal processes without due process for people that have been here two years or more. No, she said that skimpy, her words, that skimpy due process that you're providing, which is no due process at all, stops now because they have a claim on proper due process rights regardless of their immigration status. And then she said the thing that you started with this hot take, this podcast with, which is we can't leave it to the Trump administration to just point their finger at you and say, aha, illegal, illegal immigrant, no right to due process. And you never get to argue, what do you mean? I'm a U.S. citizen, or I'm, I'm here legally or whatever. Oh, no, no, you're, you're now channeled into a non due process world, or as Judge Sotomayor says, a lawless world of Trump's creation. We can't allow that. She's been hot and bothered about the Trump administration, and so she blocked that, that order. Now, I know everybody thinks, oh, it'll go up to the Supreme Court, get reversed. The reality is a lot of these things are not going to the Supreme Court because the Trump administration is abandoning their legal positions and they're not bringing them to the Supreme Court. I'm going to do a whole hot take on dozens of cases that have been abandoned by the Trump administration, meaning they're not appealing the rulings by these district court judges. They know they're on an epic losing streak, and I guess they're trying to pick, pick and choose. Now, there are some cases, of course, that we think they should definitely not fight over because they're just wrong, but they want to take their shot with their Supreme Court. But you know, because they've had 16 different victories at the United States Supreme Court against eight against them. So they, but not every case is going up that way. So I don't know if they're going to appeal this case. They may not. In certain immigration areas, they have not appealed and they haven't appealed there so far. In another ruling involving temporary protective status and asylum status, again, another due process issue. Now she gets to be the judge assigned to preside over Lisa Cook. Lisa Cook is one of seven members of the Board of Governors that run the Federal Reserve. Those seven members also pick the regional presidents of each bank. And together they get together as a gang of 12 and what's called the Federal Open Markets Committee. It is the only thing that really the Federal Reserve has as an instrument to impact the economy, which is setting interest rates. Donald Trump hates them and hates. The Federal Reserve has called for its independence to be removed. JD Vance just said yesterday that, no, there's no reason the Federal Reserve should be independent, which is exactly the opposite of what the Supreme Court has said and what the American people want. No, no, no, they're not tied to the American people. Back to the populist movement only Donald Trump should be making decisions about the, about the monetary policies of America. God help us. Because that's the only thing that tethers us to planet Earth is the Federal Reserve being independent. So Donald Trump smells blood in the water because one of the Biden appointees. I'll have to get to the bottom of why this happened. Coogler decides, no, I'm out. I'm giving up my 12 year seat. And Donald Trump's like, what? I'm one seat away from the majority on the board of governors. Who can we go after? Jay Powell is not going to work. Who's left? Lisa Cook. Let's look at everything in her life. So he, he, he releases the hounds in the form of, of Bill Pulte, who's a Trump enabler. From day one, huge donor got the job of being the head of Freddie Mae and Fannie Mac, which is not really a mortgage regulator nor an investigator of mortgage fraud. That's not what they do. They're, they're part of a, they're a semi private entity that has government aspects to it that is responsible for ensuring that there's enough money in the market for mortgage loans to be made to the American people by they, and they work with banks to take loans off their books, put them on in securitized they sell them off by grouping together hundreds of mortgages in a loan, in a security that you and I could buy. And it puts money into the system. He's not an effing regulator, he's not an investigator, he's not the inspector general about mortgage fraud. But he goes in and says, oh, I found two pieces of paper. Oh, she applied for two loans, maybe three, and she checked the wrong boxes. Aha. She got a slightly lower interest rate. God, who does this sound like? Donald Trump? Civil fraud, New York. Right. I don't know whether she did or she didn't do it, but the question is whether that in her personal life, whether she did or didn't do it is enough to rise the level of for cause to remove her from her 12 year seat on the Federal Reserve. Now, the case law starting in 1935 says it has to be a specific type of activity, bad behavior, and usually linked to something she's doing in the Federal Reserve, not in her private life, like malfeasance. Oh, you know, she just doesn't show up for her job or theft of honest service, you know, inefficiency. She, you know, she's, she's being paid to do a job she's not doing. As opposed to she checked the wrong box and got an interest rate cut on one of her mortgage loans. But Trump argued to Judge Cobb at a hearing that she pulled together on an emergency motion by judge, by Lisa Cook, to stay in her job, claiming she wasn't properly fired. She goes and gets Abby Lowell. You and I are going to talk a lot about Abby Lowell on Legal AF for the rest of the duration because he's representing Letitia James, the New York Attorney General. He's being interviewed by John Bolton, who just had an FBI raid and he's representing Lisa Cook. He is like the go to lawyer, which is good for people who've been targeted by the Trump administration. So they run into court. Now, let's just say that Judge Cobb is troubled by a number of aspects of this case on both sides. Firstly, she's very troubled by the lack of due process that Lisa Cook has been given. She said to the lawyer for the Department of Justice, Yaakov Roth, who I know from the immigration cases, what's the due process that she was given before she was fired there? And I'm just barely satirizing this, there was a mean tweet by Bill Pulte, a social media post and a letter that was written. She didn't respond to the mean tweet. And that's her due process. She said, you're not claiming. Seriously, you're not claiming. That's due process, right? He said, I am. She says, okay, I'll get back to you. So obviously she's got a problem with the lack of due process. Due process means there needs to be a tribunal, a process, a claim of wrongdoing, a defense to that, and somebody to sort that out, usually in a black robe or an arbitration to make what's called in the law substantiated findings or findings about the misconduct that is at the basis of the four cause, termination. And why does for cause matter? Because the. Even the Supreme Court went out of its way in May in a case called Wilcox about something not related to the Federal Reserve, related to the National Labor Relations Board. When Gwen Wilcox says, you can't fire me, which they said, yeah, he can, because I'm on the National Labor Relations Board, I'm just like the Federal Reserve. They said, no, you're not, and he can fire you. But since you brought up the Federal Reserve, let's protect it. No, Trump you hands off the Federal Reserve unless you have a for cause reason to fire the person. Now, you and I have practiced employment law in our life. I've done a lot of this. I fought over for cause a lot in the Wall street experience that I had. Because in an employment contract, it may say if you're fired for cause, you're not getting anything. But if you're not fired for cause, you're getting millions of dollars in your contract. So there's a huge fight over what is for cause. So you'd think that the Supreme Court would say what for cause was at the time that they also said you can't fire anybody. But they didn't. So now Donald Trump is claiming this mortgage fraud thing, if it happened, is sufficient to remove her. Now, look, she needs due process. That's clear. I think the judge is going to give her due process, is going to give her a fora for her to argue against her termination and prove she either didn't commit mortgage fraud. Right now she's not. She's saying it was a clerical error. Whatever she'll put on her evidence, that's up to Abby Lowell and her. But there needs to be a process for it, not just what's what Donald Trump has declared in his filings, which is. No, he gets to say that's for cause. And nobody can question. You have to defer to what the President says for cause, which makes absolutely no sense, because what's the difference between for cause firing and no cause firing. If Trump can just say there it is for cause. I don't like the way you're, I don't like the way you look, which could be in the case of Lisa Cook or something else. So that can't be it. She's going to say there's got to be due process, but she has asked for more briefing from Lisa Cook side about this issue. On the Trump side, she's challenged them hard about due process. She's not going to rule until she gets this new briefing from the Cook side. It's going to be sometime next week. I think she keeps her in her chair. There's a huge meeting on September 18 in which the Fed Board of Governors and the Open Markets Committee, you know, that committee set rates at which Donald Trump is trying to get those rates down to help wallpaper overall his economic problems. And so I think she's going to have to make a decision whether Lisa Cook is a board of governor or not by before the 18th. I think she keeps her in more likely than not, gives her due process, has an expedited hearing about whether she committed mortgage fraud and whether that mortgage fraud is sufficient to take her out of her seat. And then we're going to be back at the United States Supreme Court on this, on this issue. They've invited this kind of case and Trump has handed it to them.
- [73:17]
Ben
Look, that's why in contracts, though also when we talk about what for cost termination is, what without cause is contract drafters, and I'm not even talking about in a government sense, we often define what for cause means in employment agreements. You know, is it an act of moral turpitude as adjudicated by a jury, you know, or can, you know, the head of a company or board of directors say, we just believe that it's for cause and see you later and you're gone. At which point, what's the difference between for cause and without cause? But you know, look, the, the Trump regime is, is using all of its levers of government to investigate their political enemies at all levels and get rid of him on whatever grounds that they could get rid of him on. And this is, as I talked about before, where the Supreme Court created this exception that said you can't fire the Federal Reserve governors unless it's for cause. Then Trump's like, all right, well, let me find a for cause basis. Bill Pulte, go look into that. And by the way, as we go before, that's why Donald Trump also got rid of the IRS auditor Because Trump wants a guy at the ir, the head of the irs, because he wants to do audits of everybody's, you know, their tax returns, and then say, you know, you check this box. This number doesn't seem right. And then Donald Trump is the determination. And I just want you to think about this, and we'll close with this. That Donald Trump, someone who was found liable for civil fraud for inflating valuations, you know, Donald Trump who would declare certain things on his mortgages and then other things on loan documents and all of that. Donald Trump, who's been found criminally liable for business records frauds. My dogs are doing that. Time for the show to just about wrap up. That's. That's the person a felon is deciding for cause termination at this point. So, Popak, I'll leave it at that and I'll. You get the final word.
- [75:32]
Michael Popak
Okay? The dogs, the dogs intervene. The show is going to the dogs. Look, I think the common denominator, not just for this Legal af, but for five years of Legal AF here on the Midas Touch Network. What we do on Legal AF substack, we, we do on Legal AF YouTube, is to build a community of people that get the facts without blowing smoke or sunshine about what's going on with this administration. You and I, this would be a completely different show and a completely different commitment to justice if Trump had lost. We'd still be doing our job. We'd still be holding MAGA accountable around the, around the country and whatever, you know, the Kamala Harris administration was doing if we thought they were doing something wrong and in the courts, but because we have, as you said, a sexual, serial sex abuser, adjudged defamer, felon at the top of the, at the top of the ticket. We therefore have what we're watching, which is a complete, a complete disrespect for the rule of law and due process in America.
- [76:35]
Ben
Leave it at that. Dogs are good. Everyone's good. But Michael Popak. I want to remind everybody about your law firm, the Popak Firm, everybody. Check it out. If you've been injured in an accident or know somebody who has car accident, trucking accident, medical malpractice, sexual assault, sexual harassment, wrongful death. If you know someone who's wrongful death, go to the popoffirm.com or 877-popak AF877, popoc or go to the popoc firm.com also make sure you subscribe to Michael Popak substack, the Legal AF substack, and subscribe to Michael Popox YouTube channel as well, the Legal AF YouTube channel. If I said that very quickly, just look in the YouTube description, you'll see information about Popox Law Firm. It's in the description of the YouTube channel. And just search Legal AF on Substack and Legal AF on YouTube and you'll get to it very easily. It's been great spending this time with you. Keep fighting, folks. Keep fighting. Hang in there. We're in this together. Trump thought he would crush the resistance by now, but we go short. We grow stronger each and every day as he makes his fascist moves. We counter, we grow, we thrive. And it's an honor to spend this Labor Day with you. Happy Labor Day. Let's acknowledge the labor movement on Labor Day, which is what it's all about. And spend some time thinking, you know, just spend some time with your family or friends or, or take a breather as well. And you can come back and check out our videos throughout the day as well. We won't blame you for checking Midas Dutch videos. All right, see you everybody later. We appreciate you hit subscribe. Let's get to 6 million subscribers here. Great episode of Legal AFC on the next one. Thanks, Popak.
- [78:14]
Michael Popak
Thanks, Ben.
- [78:23]
Instacart Announcer
It's that time of year again, back to school season. And Instacart knows that the only thing harder than getting back into the swing of things is getting all the back to school supplies, snacks and essentials you need. So here's your reminder to make your life a little easier this season. Shop favorites from Staples, Best Buy, and Costco, all delivered through Instacart, so that you can get some time back and do whatever it is that you need to get your life back on track. Instacart, we're here.