Legal AF by MeidasTouch – Full Episode Summary Episode Date: September 28, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Legal AF dives into the week's most pressing developments at the crossroads of law and politics. With Ben Meiselas away on family matters, the panel features Michael Popok (trial lawyer) and guest host Katie Phang (attorney, journalist, and founder of The Katie Phang News Channel). Together, they dissect the controversial indictment of former FBI Director James Comey, new legal maneuvers against Trump critics, assaults on the independence of American institutions, ongoing First Amendment challenges, and notable developments at the Supreme Court. The tone is sharp, candid, and passionate, with both hosts mixing expert analysis, pointed criticism, and personality-driven banter.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. James Comey’s Indictment – Legal and Procedural Issues

Timestamps: 02:06–26:55

The episode opens with a breakdown of the irregular indictment against James Comey, highlighting its lack of specificity and legal deficiencies.
- Katie: "[The indictments] are just horribly deficient... You have no idea, with any measure of specificity, what are the false statements that were made by James Comey." (06:56)
The hosts detail the bizarre filing of two contradictory indictments, both signed by newly appointed acting U.S. Attorney Lindsey Halligan.
- Magistrate judge is bewildered by the existence of two indictments: "I've never had this happen before in my career." (Katie quoting mag. judge, 06:56)
The case is described as an example of politicized prosecution, with Halligan sent in with little federal criminal experience, and apparently no support from Main Justice.
- Popok: "She goes in alone with a cookbook I'm sure somebody prepared for her... This is what happens when you have an instant prosecutor just to add water, you throw her in after 72 hours, and this is the result." (21:29)
The indictment's vagueness means Comey’s defense has a strong basis for a motion to dismiss. The defense shouldn’t have to guess about the charges.
- Popok: "The defense has an argument to dismiss on its face... They are entitled constitutionally to understand the charges that are against them." (11:46)
Testimony confusion: The key perjury allegations are based on an ambiguous, poorly worded exchange between Comey and Senator Ted Cruz.
- In the transcript clip, Cruz repeatedly fumbles the question, referencing the “Clinton administration” instead of “Clinton Foundation” (13:59–15:18)
- Popok: "There's a malformed question which can't be the subject of perjury or at least gives the defense [an opening]..." (15:18)
Office of Inspector General (OIG) had already concluded in 2018 that McCabe, not Comey, was the leak source — further weakening the case.
- Popok: "The OIG report says clearly that McCabe lied... And every indication McCabe gave me was he did not, he was not the leaker. And I believed him." (15:18)
Political prosecution is the throughline, and Comey, represented by top-tier lawyer Pat Fitzgerald, appears ready to fight (and humiliate the prosecution).
- Katie: "Fitzgerald is going to shred Lindsey Halligan. If I'm Halligan, I'd be shitting my pants." (24:41)
- Popok on Pat Fitzgerald: "He's a badass, and I'm so glad [Comey] got him because you need somebody." (24:55)
Notable Quote – Comey’s Direct Response (09:27):

"We will not live on our knees. And you shouldn't either. Somebody that I love dearly recently said that fear is the tool of a tyrant. And she's right. But I'm not afraid, and I hope you're not either. ... And I'm innocent. So let's have a trial and keep the faith."
— James Comey [09:27]

2. Attacks on Trump Critics: Fani Willis, the DOJ, and More

Timestamps: 33:46–38:25

The DOJ has subpoenaed travel records from former Fulton County (GA) DA Fani Willis—widely seen as a political reprisal after her Trump prosecution.
- Katie: "There are no guarantees that a new prosecuting attorney's office in Georgia... is going to continue to run with the case ... who the hell knows." (35:19)
- The pursuit is characterized as a “colossal waste of time and money” compared to unresolved issues like the Epstein files. (37:03)
Larger theme: The Trump DOJ is systematically targeting perceived enemies for prosecution or intrusive investigations.

3. Assaults on Institutional Independence – The Lisa Cook/Federal Reserve Saga

Timestamps: 39:18–47:33

Trump’s effort to oust Lisa Cook (Federal Reserve Board Governor) is driven by a goal to gain control of the Federal Reserve and set interest rates, despite her already voting in favor of a rate cut.
- Katie: "No MAGA world, it's because she's black and she's female. It has nothing to do with her policies..." (39:41)
Lisa Cook faces unsubstantiated “mortgage fraud” accusations; no real evidence of fraud.
- Popok: "In order for there to be fraud, somebody has to be defrauded. ... No one got duped. So that's [the issue]." (42:34)
Supreme Court is being asked to decide if the President can remove a Fed governor at-will, despite statutes and precedent requiring "for cause." If successful, this would be a seismic shift in the balance of financial and legal power.

4. Supreme Court Watch: Birthright Citizenship & Executive Power

Timestamps: 47:59–58:48

Trump seeks to revoke birthright citizenship via executive order, bypassing longstanding 14th Amendment precedent.
- Katie: "It's a total declaration of racism. It's this idea that you don't deserve to be here." (53:14)
- Popok: "I just don't see them allowing... the plain language of the 14th Amendment [to be] changed by executive order, even with this Supreme Court." (57:50)
Discussion of amicus (“friend of the court”) briefs in upcoming SCOTUS cases — their function, impact, and why this battle is so significant for civil rights, immigrants, and the future legal architecture of the US.
Notable quote – on the racist undertones of the attack:

"It's a total declaration of racism. It's this idea that you don't deserve to be here... and for somebody like Sauer, Trump and others that clearly are children of immigrants, making this statement just fucking bothers me."
— Katie Fang [53:14]

5. First Amendment Under Assault: The ‘Charlie Kirk Effect’, Cancel Culture, and Corporate Media Crackdown

Timestamps: 66:25–77:48

Trump capitalizes on the fallout following Charlie Kirk's death, using it as a pretext to issue broad executive orders targeting “domestic terrorists” — which in practice are progressive organizations, journalists, civil rights groups, and Democratic funders.
- Popok: "He martyred Jimmy Kimmel... and [he] becomes a symbol and a lightning rod to gather together all of the civil liberties, First Amendment and progressive groups..."
Katie discusses the chilling effect of corporate/censorship on journalists, citing the firing of Karen Attia from the Washington Post for remarks critical of Charlie Kirk’s legacy and pointing out the reduction of Black female voices in elite media.
- Katie: "It's this idea of protecting the independence of our fourth estate... She was the last black female opinion writer full time at the Washington Post. They don't have any more, Mike." (75:34)
- Popok on MSNBC's recent purges: "Everybody that got canned from MSNBC was a person of color." (75:41)
Show highlights attacks on the First Amendment that transcend party lines, warning the right that they may also someday fall victim to such censorship.
- Katie: "These are not just limited to people in the press... It's obviously comedians like Jimmy Kimmel, private citizens...
- “When you've got Ben Shapiro, Megyn Kelly, Rand Paul and Ted Cruz speaking out about this ... you better watch out because you're going to be on the right receiving end of this canceling later on." (77:48)

6. Democratic Party Messaging & The Need to Play 'Hardball'

Timestamps: 77:48–83:06

Hosts argue the response to Republican and MAGA tactics has been too restrained; urge Democrats to fight on equal terms rather than bemoan every SCOTUS setback.
- Popok: "Take the cards. Play the hand you've been dealt. ... Forget high and low. Rubber meets the road, okay? It's in the middle. We gotta just... That's it."
- Katie: "It's time to play hardball." (79:52)
- Katie: "You may not like my language, but you better appreciate my message because that's what we have to do. We have to get the authenticity of our people, what they're doing for us..." (80:36)
The two emphasize authenticity, urgency, and a willingness to meet aggression with equal resolve.

Memorable Quotes & Moments

James Comey responding to Trump’s charges:

"We will not live on our knees. And you shouldn't either. ... I have great confidence in the federal judicial system, and I'm innocent. So let's have a trial and keep the faith."
[09:27]
Katie Fang on current DOJ priorities:

"You can't release the Epstein files, but you can indict James Comey. You can do travel records for Fani Willis. ... This DOJ can't release the Epstein [files].”
[37:03]
On institutional assaults:

"No MAGA world, it's because she's black and she's female."
— Katie Fang [39:41]
On birthright citizenship:

"It's a total declaration of racism. ... You don't deserve to be here."
— Katie Fang [53:14]
On press freedom and representation:

"She was the last black female opinion writer full time at the Washington Post. They don't have any more, Mike."
— Katie Fang [75:34]
On fighting back:

"It's time to play hardball."
— Katie Fang [79:52] "We are not going to be the first side to bring this case or this matter into the gutter. But if we get dragged into the gutter by God, we're gonna brass knuckle our way out. ... Ethically? Yes, ethically."
— Michael Popok [81:33–81:57]

Important Segment Timestamps

Intro & Panel Setup: 00:58–02:06
Comey Indictment Analysis: 02:06–26:55
Fani Willis DOJ Subpoenas: 33:46–38:25
Lisa Cook / Fed Independence: 39:18–47:33
Supreme Court & Birthright Citizenship: 47:59–58:48
First Amendment Under Attack / Media & Corporate Crackdown: 66:25–77:48
Dem Party Hardball Advice: 77:48–83:06

Conclusion

This episode offers a comprehensive, unsparing look at how law and partisan politics are colliding in 2025—from the faulty, politically motivated prosecution of James Comey, to Trump’s brazen efforts to dismantle institutional checks, to chilling incursions on press freedom and the First Amendment. Popok and Fang stress the need for Democrats and pro-democracy forces to shed any lingering timidity and respond with equal strength, strategy, and authenticity. The show is rich in legal explanation, insider knowledge, and political context, making it a valuable resource for anyone wanting to understand the legal-political landscape in the Trump 2.0 era.

To engage further:

Subscribe to Legal AF on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Substack
Follow Katie Phang’s work on her Substack and The Katie Phang News Channel
Get involved in supporting independent media voices as the stakes for democracy intensify

Legal AF by MeidasTouch – Full Episode Summary Episode Date: September 28, 2025

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. James Comey’s Indictment – Legal and Procedural Issues

Timestamps: 02:06–26:55

The episode opens with a breakdown of the irregular indictment against James Comey, highlighting its lack of specificity and legal deficiencies.
- Katie: "[The indictments] are just horribly deficient... You have no idea, with any measure of specificity, what are the false statements that were made by James Comey." (06:56)
The hosts detail the bizarre filing of two contradictory indictments, both signed by newly appointed acting U.S. Attorney Lindsey Halligan.
- Magistrate judge is bewildered by the existence of two indictments: "I've never had this happen before in my career." (Katie quoting mag. judge, 06:56)
The case is described as an example of politicized prosecution, with Halligan sent in with little federal criminal experience, and apparently no support from Main Justice.
- Popok: "She goes in alone with a cookbook I'm sure somebody prepared for her... This is what happens when you have an instant prosecutor just to add water, you throw her in after 72 hours, and this is the result." (21:29)
The indictment's vagueness means Comey’s defense has a strong basis for a motion to dismiss. The defense shouldn’t have to guess about the charges.
- Popok: "The defense has an argument to dismiss on its face... They are entitled constitutionally to understand the charges that are against them." (11:46)
Testimony confusion: The key perjury allegations are based on an ambiguous, poorly worded exchange between Comey and Senator Ted Cruz.
- In the transcript clip, Cruz repeatedly fumbles the question, referencing the “Clinton administration” instead of “Clinton Foundation” (13:59–15:18)
- Popok: "There's a malformed question which can't be the subject of perjury or at least gives the defense [an opening]..." (15:18)
Office of Inspector General (OIG) had already concluded in 2018 that McCabe, not Comey, was the leak source — further weakening the case.
- Popok: "The OIG report says clearly that McCabe lied... And every indication McCabe gave me was he did not, he was not the leaker. And I believed him." (15:18)
Political prosecution is the throughline, and Comey, represented by top-tier lawyer Pat Fitzgerald, appears ready to fight (and humiliate the prosecution).
- Katie: "Fitzgerald is going to shred Lindsey Halligan. If I'm Halligan, I'd be shitting my pants." (24:41)
- Popok on Pat Fitzgerald: "He's a badass, and I'm so glad [Comey] got him because you need somebody." (24:55)
Notable Quote – Comey’s Direct Response (09:27):

"We will not live on our knees. And you shouldn't either. Somebody that I love dearly recently said that fear is the tool of a tyrant. And she's right. But I'm not afraid, and I hope you're not either. ... And I'm innocent. So let's have a trial and keep the faith."
— James Comey [09:27]

2. Attacks on Trump Critics: Fani Willis, the DOJ, and More

Timestamps: 33:46–38:25

The DOJ has subpoenaed travel records from former Fulton County (GA) DA Fani Willis—widely seen as a political reprisal after her Trump prosecution.
- Katie: "There are no guarantees that a new prosecuting attorney's office in Georgia... is going to continue to run with the case ... who the hell knows." (35:19)
- The pursuit is characterized as a “colossal waste of time and money” compared to unresolved issues like the Epstein files. (37:03)
Larger theme: The Trump DOJ is systematically targeting perceived enemies for prosecution or intrusive investigations.

3. Assaults on Institutional Independence – The Lisa Cook/Federal Reserve Saga

Timestamps: 39:18–47:33

Trump’s effort to oust Lisa Cook (Federal Reserve Board Governor) is driven by a goal to gain control of the Federal Reserve and set interest rates, despite her already voting in favor of a rate cut.
- Katie: "No MAGA world, it's because she's black and she's female. It has nothing to do with her policies..." (39:41)
Lisa Cook faces unsubstantiated “mortgage fraud” accusations; no real evidence of fraud.
- Popok: "In order for there to be fraud, somebody has to be defrauded. ... No one got duped. So that's [the issue]." (42:34)
Supreme Court is being asked to decide if the President can remove a Fed governor at-will, despite statutes and precedent requiring "for cause." If successful, this would be a seismic shift in the balance of financial and legal power.

4. Supreme Court Watch: Birthright Citizenship & Executive Power

Timestamps: 47:59–58:48

Trump seeks to revoke birthright citizenship via executive order, bypassing longstanding 14th Amendment precedent.
- Katie: "It's a total declaration of racism. It's this idea that you don't deserve to be here." (53:14)
- Popok: "I just don't see them allowing... the plain language of the 14th Amendment [to be] changed by executive order, even with this Supreme Court." (57:50)
Discussion of amicus (“friend of the court”) briefs in upcoming SCOTUS cases — their function, impact, and why this battle is so significant for civil rights, immigrants, and the future legal architecture of the US.
Notable quote – on the racist undertones of the attack:

"It's a total declaration of racism. It's this idea that you don't deserve to be here... and for somebody like Sauer, Trump and others that clearly are children of immigrants, making this statement just fucking bothers me."
— Katie Fang [53:14]

5. First Amendment Under Assault: The ‘Charlie Kirk Effect’, Cancel Culture, and Corporate Media Crackdown

Timestamps: 66:25–77:48

Trump capitalizes on the fallout following Charlie Kirk's death, using it as a pretext to issue broad executive orders targeting “domestic terrorists” — which in practice are progressive organizations, journalists, civil rights groups, and Democratic funders.
- Popok: "He martyred Jimmy Kimmel... and [he] becomes a symbol and a lightning rod to gather together all of the civil liberties, First Amendment and progressive groups..."
Katie discusses the chilling effect of corporate/censorship on journalists, citing the firing of Karen Attia from the Washington Post for remarks critical of Charlie Kirk’s legacy and pointing out the reduction of Black female voices in elite media.
- Katie: "It's this idea of protecting the independence of our fourth estate... She was the last black female opinion writer full time at the Washington Post. They don't have any more, Mike." (75:34)
- Popok on MSNBC's recent purges: "Everybody that got canned from MSNBC was a person of color." (75:41)
Show highlights attacks on the First Amendment that transcend party lines, warning the right that they may also someday fall victim to such censorship.
- Katie: "These are not just limited to people in the press... It's obviously comedians like Jimmy Kimmel, private citizens...
- “When you've got Ben Shapiro, Megyn Kelly, Rand Paul and Ted Cruz speaking out about this ... you better watch out because you're going to be on the right receiving end of this canceling later on." (77:48)

6. Democratic Party Messaging & The Need to Play 'Hardball'

Timestamps: 77:48–83:06

Hosts argue the response to Republican and MAGA tactics has been too restrained; urge Democrats to fight on equal terms rather than bemoan every SCOTUS setback.
- Popok: "Take the cards. Play the hand you've been dealt. ... Forget high and low. Rubber meets the road, okay? It's in the middle. We gotta just... That's it."
- Katie: "It's time to play hardball." (79:52)
- Katie: "You may not like my language, but you better appreciate my message because that's what we have to do. We have to get the authenticity of our people, what they're doing for us..." (80:36)
The two emphasize authenticity, urgency, and a willingness to meet aggression with equal resolve.

Memorable Quotes & Moments

James Comey responding to Trump’s charges:

"We will not live on our knees. And you shouldn't either. ... I have great confidence in the federal judicial system, and I'm innocent. So let's have a trial and keep the faith."
[09:27]
Katie Fang on current DOJ priorities:

"You can't release the Epstein files, but you can indict James Comey. You can do travel records for Fani Willis. ... This DOJ can't release the Epstein [files].”
[37:03]
On institutional assaults:

"No MAGA world, it's because she's black and she's female."
— Katie Fang [39:41]
On birthright citizenship:

"It's a total declaration of racism. ... You don't deserve to be here."
— Katie Fang [53:14]
On press freedom and representation:

"She was the last black female opinion writer full time at the Washington Post. They don't have any more, Mike."
— Katie Fang [75:34]
On fighting back:

"It's time to play hardball."
— Katie Fang [79:52] "We are not going to be the first side to bring this case or this matter into the gutter. But if we get dragged into the gutter by God, we're gonna brass knuckle our way out. ... Ethically? Yes, ethically."
— Michael Popok [81:33–81:57]

Important Segment Timestamps

Intro & Panel Setup: 00:58–02:06
Comey Indictment Analysis: 02:06–26:55
Fani Willis DOJ Subpoenas: 33:46–38:25
Lisa Cook / Fed Independence: 39:18–47:33
Supreme Court & Birthright Citizenship: 47:59–58:48
First Amendment Under Attack / Media & Corporate Crackdown: 66:25–77:48
Dem Party Hardball Advice: 77:48–83:06

Conclusion

To engage further:

Subscribe to Legal AF on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Substack
Follow Katie Phang’s work on her Substack and The Katie Phang News Channel
Get involved in supporting independent media voices as the stakes for democracy intensify

wavePod

Legal AF Full Episode - 9/27/2025

Powered by Wave AI

Summary

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. James Comey’s Indictment – Legal and Procedural Issues

2. Attacks on Trump Critics: Fani Willis, the DOJ, and More

3. Assaults on Institutional Independence – The Lisa Cook/Federal Reserve Saga

4. Supreme Court Watch: Birthright Citizenship & Executive Power

5. First Amendment Under Assault: The ‘Charlie Kirk Effect’, Cancel Culture, and Corporate Media Crackdown

6. Democratic Party Messaging & The Need to Play 'Hardball'

Memorable Quotes & Moments

Important Segment Timestamps

Conclusion

Summary

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. James Comey’s Indictment – Legal and Procedural Issues

2. Attacks on Trump Critics: Fani Willis, the DOJ, and More

3. Assaults on Institutional Independence – The Lisa Cook/Federal Reserve Saga

4. Supreme Court Watch: Birthright Citizenship & Executive Power

5. First Amendment Under Assault: The ‘Charlie Kirk Effect’, Cancel Culture, and Corporate Media Crackdown

6. Democratic Party Messaging & The Need to Play 'Hardball'

Memorable Quotes & Moments

Important Segment Timestamps

Conclusion