Scared Trump Makes Major Filing in Carroll Judgment

Summary

Legal AF by MeidasTouch: “Scared Trump Makes Major Filing in Carroll Judgment” – Episode Summary

Release Date: April 15, 2025

In the April 15, 2025 episode of Legal AF by MeidasTouch, hosts Michael Popok, Ben Meiselas, and Karen Friedman Agnifilo dissect the latest legal strategies employed by former President Donald Trump in his ongoing battles against civil judgments related to sexual abuse and defamation claims filed by E. Jean Carroll. This episode offers a comprehensive analysis of the intricate legal maneuvers, the implications of sovereign immunity, and the potential outcomes of these high-stakes cases.

1. Introduction to the Carroll Judgment Filings

The episode kicks off with Michael Popok addressing the recent developments in Trump's legal battles against E. Jean Carroll. Popok sets the stage by highlighting Trump's attempts to leverage the United States' sovereign immunity to nullify an $83.5 million judgment awarded to Carroll for sexual abuse and defamation.

Popok [02:27]: "Trump's at it again. He's using your taxpayer dollars and the United States of America and its sovereign immunity to try to argue he doesn't have pay an almost $100 million judgment for sex abuse."

2. Overview of the E. Jean Carroll Cases

Popok provides a detailed overview of the two separate cases involving E. Jean Carroll:

• Sexual Abuse Case: Carroll sued Trump for sexual abuse, resulting in an $83 million judgment. This case focused on incidents that occurred while Trump was serving as president.

• Defamation Case: Carroll also pursued a defamation claim against Trump for statements he made denying the abuse, leading to a $5.5 million judgment, which Trump had already paid following an appeal.

Popok [02:54]: "Of the United States, where he stepped out of his role of being president to go after E. Jean Carroll and say, look what she looks like. I would never sexually abuse her. I don't even know the person. She's not my type. Defamation, defamation, defamation."

3. Trump's Strategy to Invoke Sovereign Immunity

A significant portion of the episode delves into Trump's legal strategy to invoke sovereign immunity under the Westfall Act, a statute that provides federal officers, including the President, immunity from certain lawsuits.

Popok [05:04]: "The Biden administration's Department of Justice had an opportunity to say, oh, we're gonna come into the case, replace Donald Trump as the party and then move for its dismissal under concepts of sovereign immunity, which is allowed under a little known statute called the Westfall act... Now, we know the US Supreme Court stretches out as far as it can the presidential powers when they did their immunity decision. But we're talking here about civil liability."

Despite having the opportunity, the Department of Justice, led by Merrick Garland, opted not to intervene, deciding against substituting the United States as the defendant to wield sovereign immunity over Trump.

Popok [09:07]: "They took a look at the case, Merrick Garland took a look at the case and said in 2023, yeah, we're not intervening in the case. This isn't presidential conduct."

4. Judicial Proceedings and Appeals

Popok outlines the procedural history of the cases, emphasizing that after Trump’s appeal attempts, both the sexual abuse and defamation cases were retried and resulted in unfavorable judgments against him.

Popak [06:05]: "$83 million judgment."

Popak [06:07]: "And that's been running with interest ever since."

He further explains that the Second Circuit Court of Appeals is currently reviewing Trump's latest attempt to invoke immunity, but anticipates that the court will reject this move.

Popak [08:33]: "I think the Second Circuit's gonna reject the certification, reject the attempt to substitute in at the judgment time the United States of America for Donald Trump in abuse and defamation case... And if Donald Trump doesn't like it, he'll take it up where else? To the United States Supreme Court where he may have three or four votes, but I'm not sure he can count to five and get five votes to let him out of a civil judgment lawsuit for sex abuse and defamation."

5. Department of Justice’s Role and Decisions

Popok critically assesses the DOJ's decision not to intervene under the Westfall Act, suggesting that this choice reinforces the accountability of high-profile figures like Trump, regardless of their political positions.

Popak [05:04]: "We're talking here about civil liability... the DOJ had an opportunity... but they decided not to pursue it."

This decision underscores the DOJ's stance on separating legal accountability from presidential immunity, especially in civil cases not directly tied to presidential duties.

6. Future Implications and Potential Outcomes

Concluding the episode, Popok speculates on the potential trajectories of these cases. He remains skeptical about Trump's chances of overturning the judgments, even if the Supreme Court were to hear the case.

Popak [08:33]: "I'm not sure he can count to five and get five votes to let him out of a civil judgment lawsuit for sex abuse and defamation. With the record that's already been established."

This assessment highlights the robustness of the judicial decisions against Trump and the improbability of successfully invoking sovereign immunity to negate the civil judgments.

7. Podcast’s Call to Action and Growth

While primarily focused on the legal analysis, the episode briefly touches upon the podcast’s growth and encourages listeners to subscribe and support their mission to provide insightful legal discussions.

Popak [11:51]: "We want to join our brothers. So with your help, we will Legal AF the podcast, audio and video version. Subscribe, listen, download, tell your friends."

Conclusion

This episode of Legal AF offers a thorough examination of Donald Trump's latest legal filings in the context of E. Jean Carroll's defamation and sexual abuse cases. Through meticulous analysis and insightful commentary, Michael Popok and his co-hosts elucidate the complexities of sovereign immunity, the Department of Justice's pivotal decisions, and the steadfastness of the judiciary in upholding civil judgments. For listeners seeking an in-depth understanding of the intersection between law and high-profile political figures, this episode serves as a compelling resource.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Popok [02:27]: "Trump's at it again. He's using your taxpayer dollars and the United States of America and its sovereign immunity to try to argue he doesn't have pay an almost $100 million judgment for sex abuse."

• Michael Popok [05:04]: "There was litigation over that... the Biden administration's Department of Justice had an opportunity to say... we're gonna come into the case, replace Donald Trump as the party and then move for its dismissal under concepts of sovereign immunity..."

• Michael Popok [08:33]: "I think the Second Circuit's gonna reject the certification, reject the attempt to substitute in at the judgment time the United States of America for Donald Trump in abuse and defamation case... And if Donald Trump doesn't like it, he'll take it up to the United States Supreme Court where he may have three or four votes, but I'm not sure he can count to five and get five votes to let him out of a civil judgment lawsuit for sex abuse and defamation."

Transcript

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[Michael Popak]

Trump's at it again. He's using your taxpayer dollars and the United States of America and its sovereign immunity to try to argue he doesn't have pay. An almost $100 million judgment for sex.

[E. Jean Carroll]

Abuse and defamation awarded to Eugene Carroll over a year ago in New York.

[Michael Popak]

By two separate juries of 180 who ruled against Donald Trump on both sex abuse and on defamation. This one has to do with the.

[E. Jean Carroll]

Statements he made while he was president.

[Michael Popak]

Of the United States, where he stepped out of his role of being president to go after E. Jean Carroll and say, look what she looks like. I would never sexually abuse her. I don't even know the person. She's not my type. Defamation, defamation, defamation. Now let's continue there. And I want to also update you on this hot take on what's going on with the sort of parallel world of that $500 million judgment against Donald, Donald J. Trump, DJT for persistent fraud in the operation of the Trump Organization. Because a judge there, Judge Angoron over a year ago found that the New York attorney general, Letitia James was right in all of her proof that the Trump Organization was fraud, was fraudulent, period. So there's a $500 million judgment running with $120,000 of interest per day. What's going on with that, with that particular case? Popak and what about Donald Trump trying to use our taxpayer dollars and the United States of America's good credit to try to get out from under his $100 million sex abuse and defamation judgment? I tie it all together here on the Midas Touch Network. Let's go. Let's start with E. Jean Carroll. You may recall there were two E. Jean Carroll cases, one about her being sexually abused and then defamation comments made by Donald Trump after he was president. And then another case about the sexual abuse and defamation comments while he was president. They were delayed. They were separated because Donald Trump took an appeal about whether as president or, you know, he had the ability to be sued or not. They had all this whole issue went before several appellate courts and got returned back to Judge Kaplan in New York. And they, they said, yeah, try the case. There's no immunity issues related to this defamation that you're talking about. And of course, the Biden administration's Department of justice had an opportunity to say, oh, we're gonna come into the case, replace Donald Trump as the party and then move for its dismissal under concepts of sovereign immunity, which is allowed under a little known statute called the Westfall act, named after a then senator, which gives immunity to federal officers all the way up to the president of the.

[E. Jean Carroll]

United States from being sued in civil.

[Michael Popak]

Liab for things they do while on the job or at least within the scope of their duties. Now, we know the US Supreme Court stretches out as far as it can the presidential powers when they did their immunity decision. But we're talking here about civil liability. So there was litigation over that. The two cases sort of got uncoupled and tried separately. The first case about what he did later in time, if you will, in the defamation after he was president, went first in that case. 90 A jury ruled Alina Haba was the lawyer along with some other people. Donald Trump didn't testify and the jury awarded her $5.5 million. Donald Trump has effectively paid that already. He took an appeal on that particular case and lost. There were no reversible error decisions made by Judge Kaplan and the US Supreme Court doesn't care about it. Second case got tried nine zero again against Donald Trump. This time he did testify and the jury hated him.

[E. Jean Carroll]

$83 million judgment.

[Michael Popak]

And that's been running with interest ever since. Donald Trump took an appeal to the Second Circuit Court of Appeals Federal and they and Alina Haba tried to argue all sorts of things about, well, he was president at one time and you, you can't, you know, prosecute, you know, there can't be a civil liability for the president at all. And they said, well, those are interesting arguments, but you were late in bringing them. In fact, you were too late in bringing them. You know, now she's the acting U.S. attorney for New Jersey, but at the time she's a terrible federal practitioner, let's be honest, and has lost everything she's ever touched in federal court. And so she lost her appellate argument. And the 2nd Circuit said, yeah, we don't see presidential immunity related to any of this. And plus you waived it.

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[Michael Popak]

Okay, so now you've got the Second Circuit appeal. Now, we're still waiting on their ultimate ruling in the case. In the meantime, Donald Trump gets hit with the 83 and a half million dollar judgment. He posts the bond. He had to go out and go get a surety company who's a buddy of his out in Texas to post this bond based on his bank account and whatever he's got sitting in his Capital One account, apparently. And they posted the bond. Now, during that period, the Biden administration had the ability, as I said, to use the Westfall act to protect Donald Trump.

[E. Jean Carroll]

But they refused.

[Michael Popak]

They took a look at the case, Merrick Garland took a look at the case and said in 2023, yeah, we're not intervening in the case. This isn't presidential conduct. We're not gonna assert that the United States Supreme Court should be substituted in as a party as the first step of getting the case dismissed and getting the judgment dismissed. Fast forward. Donald Trump just had his, his Department of Justice, of course, the Civil Rights and Torts division under Pam Bondi file a new certification, a new declaration that says, I declare that. I've reviewed the facts. This is, this is the new filing. I've reviewed the facts. And yes, this is all presidential conduct from what I understand, based on what two separate appellate courts says it isn't. Why? Because you work for Pam Bondi. And now this, this declaration, West Falls certification is suddenly going to flip the course of the Department of position and we're a little late, don't you think? The Second Circuit doesn't seem to be the right place to break make this motion. As the lawyers for E. Jean Carroll, Robbie Kaplan just, just told Second Circuit this should go back to Judge Judge Kaplan and let them make the, make him make, let him make the decision about whether this Westfall declaration means that somehow the judgment should be thrown out or the US should be substituted in. Now that the judge judgment has already been rendered, I don't see that happening. I think we've got waiver. I think we've got a lot of things in the interest of justice that you're not. Just because the guy had the unique or we had the unique misfortune of Donald Trump becoming president again, he gets to then use that presidency to clean up all of his mess and all of his judgments civilly. But they're trying. Here's what I think is gonna happen. I think the Second Circuit's gonna reject the certification, reject the attempt to substitute in at the judgment time the United States of America for Donald Trump in abuse and defamation case, send it back to Kaplan who's going to reject it. And if Donald Trump doesn't like it, he'll take it up where else? To the United States Supreme Court where he may have three or four votes, but I'm not sure he can count to five and get five votes to let him out of a civil judgment lawsuit for sex abuse and defamation. With the record, that's already been established, but we'll follow it right here as we only do speak in truth to each other first here on the Midas Touch Network, Legal. Let's talk about Legal AF for a minute. Legal af, the podcast been around for about five years. Ben Meiselas and I founded it and then Karen Freeman Ignifolo joined and we got a Wednesday and Saturday show every where you can Watch us on YouTube and then pick us up on audio podcast platforms. So important.

[E. Jean Carroll]

We're number 10 in the world in podcasts. It's hard to believe. Same chart, Midas touch number one.

[Michael Popak]

We're number 10 and we want to get to the top five.

[E. Jean Carroll]

Why not?

[Michael Popak]

We want to join our brothers. So with your help, we will Legal AF the podcast, audio and video version. Subscribe, listen, download, tell your friends. That's great. We also have a YouTube channel that I curate, Legal AF, the YouTube channel in collaboration with Midas Touch, Legal AFMTN. We're trying to get that to a million subscribers free with your help. We're already at about 540 or 550,000 and we're only seven months old. That's all a testament to you. We're humbled by it.

[E. Jean Carroll]

We'll continue to do our part.

[Michael Popak]

We got 12amazing contributors or so over on Legal AF MTN. Check us out. So until my next whatever contribution I'm making to Legal af, this is Michael Popak reporting in collaboration with the Midas Touch Network. We just launched the Legal AF YouTube channel. Help us build this pro democracy channel where I'll be curating the top stories the intersection of law and Politics. Go to YouTube now and free subscribe at Legal AFMTN. That's @legal AFMTN.