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- [00:01]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
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- [00:34]
Michael Popak
Well, if I wasn't already revved up to defend our constitutional republic, our way of life, our rule of law, our democracy, before I started watching the American Revolution by Ken Burns on pbs. Yes, PBS still exists. I'm fired up now and the more I watch it, the more I'm convinced that we are in our rebellion, we, we are in our revolutionary period. And because what is Donald Trump as his grip on power slips, but a failing King George? And what are we but patriots fighting for our way of life and to fight for our Constitution and to make sure that we have a government that is aligned with our values and our Constitution. That's why we're here together at the Intersection. That's why we're here together on Midas Touch. That's why you're helping me build, brick by brick, the Legal AF community and Legal AF YouTube channel. So many amazing developments I'm going to talk to you about that are going to be happening in 2026 for Legal AF and its community. But it starts with you and I'm so glad you're here. I'm Michael Popak and we're at the Intersection. I'm going to orient us, I'm going to curate for us around four developments. One, of course, my view, my analysis of what we just watched with Judge Curry making her ruling about the illegality of Lindsey Halligan as a prosecutor, what it means for the future of the James Comey prosecution. Is that going to close the door on the James Comey prosecution? It should. What's it mean for the Letitia James prosecution for mortgage fraud? When and who will pick the next U.S. attorney? What will Donald Trump do about it? What's going to happen on appeal, the inevitable appeal and so on. And that's a good way to kick off this episode of the Intersection, as I'm revved up by thoughts of the American Revolution, by thoughts of our framers and founders of thoughts of the Federalist Papers, of thoughts of probably, as Ken Burns put it, the most influential and consequential pamphlet of our of our time, Common Sense. That's what I rely on for my commentating that's what I rely on for my audience. And I'm so glad that you're here with our brand of common sense. I'm going to then take us to Judge Chutkan Epstein and the Epstein cover up, the child sex trafficking cover up. We've been watching in slow motion by Donald Trump to protect himself and other rich and powerful people as now come to the end. This is the end of the beginning, if not the beginning of the end. And Judge Chutkan has just moved it along because you may not have saw this today, but today in the last 24 hours or so, she's issued a new order, a summary judgment, game over in favor of Democracy Forward, that public interest group led by Sky Perryman. I'm going to talk a lot about Sky Perryman and Democracy Forward tonight, and not just because I'm going to be interviewing her tomorrow on Legal AF for our regular playlist devoted to Democracy Forward. And there are more than 100 cases, but she just won. Judge Chutkan just ruled that all correspondence that that exists between Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein must be produced immediately pursuant to a Freedom of Information act request. What does it mean? What does it mean for the bill that was just passed into law? What does it mean for Pam Bondi, who's at the center of most corruption scandals? I mean, there's so many scandals involving Pam Bondi. You know, sometimes it's hard for us to keep track, but I keep track. Pam Bondi's involved with another one. Is she going to use the phony new criminal investigation in New York to block the Epstein files? And how is she going to block Judge Chutkan's order that these documents, including the Epstein Trump communications, be given to the public? So we're going to talk about that. Then I need to turn to Judge Boasberg. You know, a sleeping giant has awoken Judge Boasberg back in March and April, April particularly, he issued a landmark order of contempt, probable cause for criminal contempt against the Trump administration in a case we referred to as JGG, has to do with 200 Venezuelans and others sent to El Salvador without due process on secret flights and secret planes that he grounded and that the Trump administration, and we know why now, violated his order and kept the planes flying, even though his order said ground them, return them, bring them back and those human beings back to federal jurisdiction and federal oversight by a judge and something we call due process that we hold dear. I think I'm on. I think I'm on episode five of the American Revolution. That's what they're fighting for, they're fighting for freedom. They're fighting for due process. They're fighting for the Constitution. They're fighting to defend the Constitution. Not any. And not any man. We're not a country of men or women. We're a country of laws with. Donald Trump says that he's going to court martial. Mark Kelly, the senator who served as a captain of the Navy and was an astronaut married to Gabby Giffords, because he and five other elected officials looked the American people in the eye and said, and particularly those in the military and the military brass, don't give up the ship. You have an obligation, you have a duty, you have a, a commitment, an oath that's been taken to uphold the Constitution and not to abide by or comply with any illegal order, unconstitutional order of the commander in chief of the president. You swore to uphold the Constitution against all enemies, domestic and foreign, not uphold the president or a president. And after that video went out, Donald Trump decided to have his FBI opening up a criminal investigation against them. They didn't misstate the law. They didn't misstate the law of military justice. They didn't misstate the Nuremberg principle that you can't just say, I was following orders. They didn't violate the constitutional principles. They properly stated them. They felt they had to do it, obviously, because there aren't enough resistance within the military to protect our democracy. And they were, and they were sounding the clarion call, the bat signal, if you will, to make sure that as Donald Trump gets even crazier, more unhinged, more depraved, his grip on power slips. He goes into his own personal bunker, the bunker of his mind. And we're at risk that the military stands under civilian control and stands between us and Armageddon stands between us and a rogue, lawless president. So we're going to talk about the Epstein files again. I just had the honor of interviewing Lisa Phillips. I'm going to be doing a lot of work with Lisa Phillips and a survivors group that she and others created called Survivor Strategies to help victims of Sex, Sex abuse get the political, legal, emotional, psychological and other resources that they need. Legal AF is going to stand behind this project. Midas Touch is going to stand behind this project. The POPOC firm is going to stand behind this project. And this political movement is going to be organized and disciplined and devoted to, to survivors of sex abuse. And I'm so honored. You're going to see her interview go up sometime tomorrow on Legal AF with me. Then we're going to Turn to Judge Boseberg. As I said, he's looking at criminal contempt. The case is back. He wants to hear from Errors Revenue. He wants to hear from Mr. Ensign, Drew Ensign, about what Emil Bovey now in the Third Circuit said or didn't say to them to go tell judges to go F off. I want to then move to Eric Swalwell and his new lawsuit against Mark Pulte, who's the. Sorry, Bill Pulte, who's the heir to the Pulte Construction fortune, who's the head of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Donald Trump's attack dog, who went after Letitia James and others claiming mortgage fraud, like Senator Adam Schiff. Now he's got a new lawsuit he's going to have to deal with. And then I want to end with Mr. Mr. Joe Schnit, 23 years in the Department of Justice. He was the head of the witness Protection program of the Department of Justice. Just got a big raise and a big promotion. Went out on a dating app with a woman he thought was somebody that was interested in him romantically, but she was an undercover journalist and recorded him saying some things out loud about the Epstein files and the Trump administration. And he got fired for it. And he wants his job back and he sued over it. I think it's a great way for us to sit at the intersection of law and politics tonight. Happy holidays. Early Thanksgiving, one of my favorite holidays of all time. One, my birthday backs up into Thanksgiving. Two, I just love the food. And three, this is the time to take family members who may be distant emotionally, psychologically, physically, geographically from you and pull them tighter because you don't know how many Thanksgivings you're going to have. As people know, I lost my mom in May. I didn't know at the time that the Thanksgiving prior was going to be my last Thanksgiving with her. But of course, I know it now and it leaves a big hole. And now is the time to celebrate and be in the loving embrace of your family and your friends. And if you're working, your co workers and try to make Thanksgiving as enjoyable as possible. Glad you're here at the intersection. All right, let's get to it. I'll try to give my own independent analysis of the Comey Letitia James developments. Try not to plod over, you know, fields that have already. You may already know the basics, but let me give it to you from a practicing federal practitioner's perspective, somebody I think you can come to trust about what I just noticed here. First of all, Judge Curry, who sits normally in South Carolina made the decision very smart, very smart. She peppered her her opinion with rulings by right wing conservative justices and judges. She cited to Sam Alito on the Supreme Court when she made the decision that Lindsey Halligan was illegally appointed under Section 546 as a United States Attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia. She cited to Judge Cannon, Donald Trump's favorite judge in Florida, for the proposition that once she found that Lindsey Halligan was illegally appointed, she had no choice but to find that everything that flowed from her illegal appointment was fruit of a poisonous tree and she had to bounce the indictment as well. Now she did it without prejudice. We'll talk about the difference between prejudice and non prejudice when it comes to the dismissal of an indictment and the findings that she made. Um, having found that Lindsey Halligan was illegally appointed under section 5 46, because under the plain reading of the statute, the Attorney General only gets one interim US Attorney at a. Not only at a time, just one. And after that, pick and then goes to the district court judges, since it has since the Civil War to pick the next judge. Some people might be asking, isn't that a violation of separation of powers? You've got judges picking executive branch officers like judges. We've been doing it since the Civil War and under the way that Vacancy Reform act was created, the President gets the ultimate right to place a prosecutor U.S. attorney in, but has to be confirmed by the Senate. And Donald Trump hasn't done that. He'll never do it with Lindsey Halligan. He'll never do it with some of the other people that he's appointed. And so he's been trying to cycle through a series of interim U.S. attorneys who serve for 120 days. But that's only a single use ticket. After the 120 days is over or before if he fires the next one, the district court Judges pick the U.S. attorney. Eric Siebert, a Republican, was the interim U.S. attorney picked under section 546. Donald Trump didn't like him even though he was a Republican because he wouldn't indict Comey and Letitia James once he was fired. Donald Trump lost the right under Pam Bondi to go bring in Lindsey Halligan and inexperienced, obscenely unqualified young lawyer with no federal prosecutor experience to go after the biggest indictments of her life with nobody sitting next to her. That's a remarkable thing. I don't feel sorry for her, but they left her twisting in the wind. If I was Lindsey Halligan and I was a young lawyer, I was an eight year lawyer. @ one point I would say, I don't want to go in there alone. Who's going in with me? Who's going to second chair me? Who's going to. Who am I going to whisper into their ear? Who am I going to write notes to? They said, no, you do it on your own. Lindsey, here's a script. And she went in there and according to Judge Fitzgerald, another judge involved with the case, she violated the fourth Amendment, the fifth amendment and the sixth amendment privileges of at least James Comey. Now, there are other judges looking at these issues. Judge Fitzgerald, the magistrate judge, Judge Nachmanoff, the trial judge over the Comey indictment, the Comey prosecution, and Judge Walker over Letitia James. But Curry was a special judge just looking at the issue of whether Lindsey Halligan lived or died as a prosecutor. And she said she was gonna rule before Thanksgiving. And she did. And she bounced Lindsey Halligan and she bounced the indictments without prejudice. Now, she also suggested in her ruling that the Comey indictment is dead in the water because they blew the statute of limitations. Most crimes, not every crime, has a period of time for when the crime was completed to when you can bring the prosecution. Sometimes it's five years, sometimes it's 10 years, seven years. But some have no statute of limitations. Perjury. For James Comey, five year statute of limitations prosecution indictment had to be brought by September 5, 2025. And Judge Curry said because Lindsey Halligan was effectively a non entity, an illegally appointed U.S. attorney, her indictment that followed, signed by nobody else, obtained by nobody else but her, cannot stand and is not an indictment and therefore didn't stop the clock on the statute of limitations. And she suggested in a footnote, case is over for Comey. Now, James Comey has come back and given us another message now that his indictment and likely his criminal case has been kicked. As we still wait for Judge Nachmanoff to rule about vindictive prosecution and rule about selective prosecution, grand jury abuse, those are all with Judge Nakhmedoff. And he can still rule and will still rule. I don't believe that what Judge Curry did mooted in any way, made it unnecessary for Judge Nakhmedoff to rule because the indictment was dismissed without prejudice. Plus, I'm sure there's going to be a new motion to dismiss for an emotion to dismiss on the grounds that the statute of limitations has run and the indictment that, that Lindsey Halligan obtained was invalid, was ultravares, was void abomination. All fancy ways of saying fancy words for saying the same thing. We're gonna see that motion. So let's hear from James Comey.
- [17:40]
James Comey
I'm grateful that the court ended the case against me, which was a prosecution based on malevolence and incompetence and a reflection of what the Department of Justice has become under Donald Trump, which is heartbreaking. But I was also inspired by the example of the career people who refused to be part of this travesty. It cost some of them their jobs, which is painful, but it preserved their integrity, which is beyond price. And I know they will serve again. I was very lucky that some of the best lawyers in America stepped forward to represent me. I hope they serve as an example to more and more lawyers, especially at some of the big firms, to participate in protecting our liberty, protecting the rule of law. And my family and friends were always with me, and luckily for me, include some of those great lawyers. This case mattered to me personally, obviously. But it matters most because a message has to be sent that the President of the United States cannot use the Department of Justice to target his political enemies. I don't care what your politics are. You have to see that as fundamentally un American and a threat to the rule of law that keeps all of us free. I know that Donald Trump will probably come after me again, and my attitude is going to be the same. I'm innocent. I am not afraid. And I believe in an independent federal judiciary, the gift from our founders that protects us from a would be tyrant. When I was a kid, my parents would wake us up for school every morning by snapping open the shades and saying, time to rise and shine and show the world what you're made of. Well, it's that time, America. It's time to stand up and show the fools who would frighten us, who would divide us, that we're made of stronger stuff, that we believe in the rule of law, that we believe in the importance of doing things by the law. So stand tall, shine, and keep the faith.
- [19:48]
Michael Popak
Letitia James. Different story, but I'm waiting. It hasn't happened yet. For the district court judges to get together. There's 18 of them in the Eastern District of Virginia and have them appoint a new U.S. attorney. Then we're gonna have a fight. Donald Trump's not gonna recognize him. They're gonna lock her out of her office. They're gonna fire her, try to appoint another, which he can't do. So we're going to rapidly be at the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals. Then we're. And then we're going to be up through Chief Justice Roberts at the United States Supreme Court. But Chief Judge, a senior Judge Curry is not the first judge. He's the third judge to have ruled that one of Donald Trump's Saturday night specials, one of his special appointed attorneys, is invalid and illegal. And yet the Trump administration just ignores it. You know, they asked Pam Bondi about Lindsey Halligan. Oh, very fine lawyer. She's a special attorney. She's going to be able to stay. Let's play that clip.
- [20:47]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
What happens to U.S. attorney Halligan now? Will she remain in her position while the appeals process plays out? And does that threaten to amend other cases in the office if you guys compliment her? It does not. We have made Lindsey halligan A special U.S. attorney. So she is in court. She can fight in court just like she was. And we believe we will be successful on appeal. And I'll tell you, Lindsay Halligan, I talk to all of our U.S. attorneys, the majority of them around the country, and Lindsey Halligan is an excellent U.S. attorney and shame on them for not wanting her in office. Thank you all.
- [21:21]
Michael Popak
Not happening. Not happening. And I love the fact that Judge Kerry used Aileen Cannon's ruling in favor of Donald Trump to support her decision to bounce Halligan and bounce the indictment. I knew something was up because last week or so in the hearing when U.S. attorney Whitaker was arguing for the Department of Justice, a friend of Pam Bondi, they had worked together in Florida, he was the solicitor General, which he was the attorney general under DeSantis. And she said to him, are you familiar with the US vs Trump decision and precedent or decision made by Judge Cannon about Mar a Lago in which he found that the special prosecutor, special counsel, was illegally appointed? He said, yes. How do you think that applies here since she wasn't confirmed by the Senate either? And he said, I don't think it has any presidential value. You know, it was in Florida. So he ran away as fast as he could from, from, from the alien Cannon decision. But it showed up again like a bad penny for the Department of Justice in the ruling by Judge Curry. So now let me turn to Judge Chutkan. Everybody knows the, the first, the first chapter after much political pressure, crowds in the streets, survivors at the Capitol, survivors threatening to release the client list themselves and evidence themselves. Donald Trump slip on power evident MAGA running away from him, people breaking away like Marjorie Taylor Greene and joining with the survivor is actually at great political risk to her not defending Marjorie Taylor Greene. But she is out of a job now and all of that, overwhelmingly, except for one, everybody in the House and Senate Voted for a bill to have the Epstein files released that never had to go to Congress. It still doesn't ever have to go to Congress. The documents sit in the executive branch. They always have and they always will. They're with Donald Trump, they're with his FBI, they're with his Department of Justice. He always used the House as a way to cook the books, slow down the production, stop the production, point to Congress. I'd be transparent, but they're not letting me. Point to the courts. I'd be transparent, but they're not letting me. It's all a ruse. It's all bs. It's all bullshit. Donald Trump's always had the power to unlock the door and release all the Epstein files, but he won't. So Democracy Forward, led by Sky Perryman and her lawyers ran to court a couple of weeks ago. A few weeks ago, filed a suit, got assigned to Judge Chutkan who presided over the, the criminal case against Donald Trump, the election interference case. And under the Freedom of Information act, you make a demand, if it's of great public importance, you can ask for an expedited review and you and if the government doesn't respond or, or fails to respond or does respond, but it's invalid, a judge can order that the documents be released. Now, they sought a subset of the Epstein files. They sought all documents because they want transparency between the FBI, the Department of justice, its leadership and or Donald Trump to talk about the Epstein files. So they're trying to get to the bottom of the COVID up. Not the docs per se, the COVID up. But they also asked for all communications between Epstein and Trump to show why there was a cover up. And after summary judgment, Judge Chutkin ruled in the last 24 hours that almost the entirety of what Democracy Forward is seeking needs to be immediately turned over to the public, including the Epstein Trump communications. Now, we know from other reporting that the files are worse for Donald Trump than originally thought. That David Schuster reporter has said that the MAGA right wing was briefed by the Department of Justice itself and that the takeaway was the files are worse for Donald Trump than first reported. We knew that. And Judge Chutkan actually cites in her order and all these orders that I'm going to talk about today are up on legal AF substack for you to review under filings. Afghanistan. The judge said effectively, Pam Bondi, you made this of great public concern and importance and therefore based on you flip flopping because in February when the administration first got in, you said you were going to Release all the files. They were sitting on your desk. And then four months later you said in a closeout memo, there's nothing to see here. There's no crimes, there's no client list. We're closing the file. And then you go off and say you're opening up an active investigation. You've made this of public interest under FOIA to force their production. Let's look at Pam Bondi because this was referred to by Judge Chutkan in her order, talking about it in a couple of different clips, one in which she states it, one in which she tries to weasel her way around it about the file being on her desk. Let's play the clip.
- [26:43]
Interviewee/Reporter
The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Will that really happen?
- [26:49]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump. I'm reviewing that. I'm reviewing JFK files, MLK files. That's all in the process of being reviewed because that was done at the directive of the president from all of these agencies.
- [27:04]
Interviewee/Reporter
Sure.
- [27:04]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
First to back up on that, in February, I did an interview on Fox and it's been getting a lot of attention. Attention because I said I was asked a question about the client list and my response was it's sitting on my desk to be reviewed, meaning the file along with the JFK MLK files as well. That's what I meant by that.
- [27:29]
Michael Popak
We also know, and Judge Chutkin referred to this as a fact, which is that the Department of Justice and the FBI reviewed all the files in March, led by the FBI, that by May she had briefed the President and that he knew his name was all over the files. That's why the communication between Epstein and Trump becomes part of the FOIA records that need to be produced. Now what's going to happen? There's going to be an appeal by the Trump administration to the D.C. court of Appeals. Then they're going to try to take a fast track to the United States Supreme Court. I'm just not sure that the United States Supreme Court is that keen on weighing in on the Epstein child sex trafficking cover up. I mean, they didn't grant the appeal for Ghislaine Maxwell. You know, they've had other victims that they've supported in the past. We'll have to see where the Supreme Court is. But you got to hand it to Judge Chutkin to make that ruling today. It's another avenue for us to get a hold of the Epstein Trump communication. We're going to talk about Judge Boasberg and the revival of the criminal contempt case against the Department of Justice Eros Revenue. The whistleblower emil Bovey, a 3rd Circuit Court of Appeal judge. Is this judge going to find that Emil Bovey, who now sits on the 3rd Circuit, committed criminal contempt? He might. And you're going to want to be here to hear about it. Eric Swalwell's new suit against Bill Pulte and what it means for people like Adam Schiff and Letitia James. And then we're going to talk about Joe Schnit suing to get his job back because he got caught in a honey pot undercover operation and told the truth about the Epstein cover up within the Trump administration. But first, there's a lot of different ways to support what we do on the Intersection. You've already moved us up. We're in the top 50 now of all YouTube podcasts. The Intersection. And that's a, you know, I get goosebumps talking about it. We're here less than a year and look at the great support we're getting from you. And then we have the audio version. Just plug in the intersection, find me there, leave five star views and comments. We read through those, too. And then just support everything that we do in the Legal AF world, which I, which I curate, which I run as executive director. Come over to Legal AF, the YouTube channel. You know, come 2026, we're going to be onboarding Fingers Crossed, Candles lit, the American Civil Liberties Union for a regular playlist. We're about to bring on a group that is founded by Eric Holder and Barack Obama, President Obama, related to voting rights and voting maps, going to bring them on with us as well. Democracy Forwards already there got some amazing developments at the intersection of law and politics that's coming up in 2026 because of your support. And we're going to crash through the 1 million subscriber barrier probably just before Christmas. And Annika, with your help on Legal AF, the YouTube channel, go over there. It's all free, no paywall. Hit the subscribe button. Help us with Legal AF substack and with a paid membership for seven bucks a month, that's what pays for the editors, the content, the work that we do, the turnaround time, you name it, that's the place to go. I just got through with 11 attorneys general interviews last week and two panels are going to be going up over the week over the next couple of days leading into Thanksgiving. You're not going to want to miss it. My interviews with five or actually ten total Attorneys General, Democratic Attorneys General. And you're going to be shocked and amazed and happy about what you hear during those interviews. And now we got a word from our pro democracy sponsors. Everyone acts like they fully understand AI and meanwhile I I'm over here arguing with my smart fridge. 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You can find them at Amazon, Target, Costco, and Sam's Club or head to trueclassic.com legalaf to shop the perfect gifts for everyone on your list. Welcome back to the Intersection. I'm Michael Popak. You're on the Midas Touch Network. All right, moving from Judge Chutkan's order to force the release of all Epstein and Trump communication, let's move to the revival of Judge Boasberg's criminal contempt probable cause hearing. You might have forgotten this one. In April, Judge Boasberg entered an order finding probable cause that the Trump administration committed criminal contempt in his courtroom by flouting his orders and contumacious behavior, violating his order. He said of the 200 people on planes who are Venezuelans being sent to El Salvador and the torture prisons of El Salvador, he ordered them to. He ordered the planes grounded. He ordered the flights turned around. None of that happened. We now know why, because there's a 35 page whistleblower complaint by Erez Reveni, who had spent 15 years in the Department of Justice. And he said that Emil Bovey, who was the number three in the Department of Justice previous to that, Donald Trump's criminal defense lawyer, he ordered effectively all of the lawyers to go tell federal judges to go f off, literally f off. And that when I read that in the whistleblower disclosure by Erez Raveni, as Emil Bovey was being confirmed to be a 3rd Circuit Court of Appeal judge sitting in Philadelphia. I said there's going to be at the time I said there's going to be two judges are going to be very interested in errors revenue. One is Judge Boasberg and the other is Judge Zinnis in Maryland, who presides over the Abrego Garcia case because it explains a lot. The Trump administration Department of justice literally told lawyers to go tell federal judges to go f off and that they would not turn planes around and they would not allow any due process of people who were removed under the Alien Enemies Act. So I was not shocked when I read that after the appellate court finally let Judge Boasberg restart his criminal contempt case because what happened between April and now, long time is it was caught up in the morass of appeals, appeals are over. And they sided ultimately with Judge Boasberg. And they said, okay, do your fact finding. Restart your contempt proceeding. And he's trying to get to the bottom of why and who and how and what they knew and when they knew it about his order to ground the planes and not fly to El Salvador and why they were violated. Now, later, his order was vacated by the United States Supreme Court, but that doesn't matter because at the time they were valid issued orders of a federal judge. And you can't say, well, later on the Supreme Court overturned it. You have to comply. If you're a co equal branch of government or otherwise, you got to comply with a federal judge's order. So we're back with that now. There's some interesting developments there. The judge said out loud last week as he's putting the case back together again. I want to hear from Erez Revenue. So do we. In fact, I have a clip because Erez Reveni went on 60 Minutes and here's a clip of so you know who I'm talking about. Of Erez Revenue. Let's play the clip.
- [38:27]
Interviewee/Reporter
The Alien Enemies act allows rapid expulsion from the US of the citizens of enemy nations during a war, but without a declared war. Trump used it against more than 100 Venezuelans that the government said were terrorists. They were to be denied their right to be heard by a judge. Ruvaney says Bovey expected a challenge.
- [38:52]
Michael Popak
Bovey emphasized those planes need to take off no matter what. And then after a pause, he also told all in attendance and if some court should issue an order preventing that, we may have to consider telling that court you.
- [39:13]
Interviewee/Reporter
And when you heard that, you thought.
- [39:14]
James Comey
What felt like a bomb had gone off.
- [39:17]
Michael Popak
Here is the number three official using expletives to tell career attorneys that we.
- [39:23]
James Comey
May just have to consider disregarding federal court orders.
- [39:26]
Michael Popak
Now, Emil Bovey, who Erez Raveni says told him and others to tell federal judges to go f off and effectively act in contempt, he was asked the question by Adam Schiff, of all people, the senator from California, during his confirmation hearing. And wait till you hear his response to that. Let's play Emil Bovey about whether he told lawyers to tell federal judges to go f off. Let's play the clip.
- [39:53]
Interviewee/Reporter
In the complaint, it says Bovey stated that DOJ would need to consider telling the courts fuck you and ignoring any such court order. Did you say anything of that kind in the meeting, Senator? I have no recollection of saying anything of that kind to the extent I usually would you recall, Mr. Bovet, if you said or suggested during a meeting with Justice Department lawyers that maybe they should consider telling the court fuck you? It seems to me that would be something you'd remember. Unless that's the kind of thing you say frequently. Well, I've certainly said things encouraging litigators at the department to. To fight hard for valid positions that we have to take in defense. And have you frequently suggested that they say fuck you and ignore court orders? Is that also something you frequently do, such you might not remember doing it in this occasion? No. And as I explained, I have never directed. Did you or did you not make those comments during that meeting? Which comment, Senator? You really need me to repeat it? Did you suggest, as Mr. Rouveni wrote, that DOJ would need to consider telling the courts fuck you and ignore any such court order? I did not suggest that there would be any need to consider ignoring court orders. At the point of that meeting, there were no court orders to discuss. Well, did you suggest telling the courts fuck you in any manner?
- [41:17]
Michael Popak
I don't recall.
- [41:19]
Interviewee/Reporter
You just don't remember that?
- [41:21]
Michael Popak
Now, I had the fortune, I had the pleasure of having Lee Golert, sorry, the lead lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union in this very case, just with me just yesterday with an interview about the case. And right after the interview, he's playing a little coy with me. I was wondering why. Because right after the interview, he filed with the federal judge Boasberg, a list of people that he suggests that the judge interview and cross examine email. Bovey was up there. So now you got the the think of the optics. You got a district court judge, chief judge of the D.C. district Court, who the Trump administration hates. They say he's coddles terrorists, he's partisan, he's a Republican, by the way. They don't like him because he's the one when he was the chief, when he as chief judge, he sits over the grand juries. He authorized all those search warrants on the Verizon accounts of the senators and the congresspeople who are caught up in the January 6th insurrection. So he's got a lot of crosshairs on him. He doesn't care. He's doing his job. And I asked Lee about the case and about this upcoming hearing. And here's a clip from the lead lawyer for the ACLU in the very case that I'm talking about, Lee Gelert. Let's play it Tell us about how Judge Boasberg actually said those two words. Erez riveni, you know, is like Kaiser Sosi moment in your hearing.
- [42:54]
Lee Gelert
Yeah, I mean, the whole thing is extraordinary, surreal. I mean, I've been doing this a long time. You've been doing it a long time. I mean, this is sort of mind boggling what's going on. But he came in, in the hearing on the 19th, just recently after the Court of Appeals said, you can go ahead, Judge Boasberg. And, and one of the first things he said is there's been this whistleblower complaint by Mr. Rouvainy. We're going to have to have him as a witness. And, you know, I think that's right. And his complaint names other officials very specifically. So I think Judge Boasberger is saying, look, let's find out what's going on. They told me that they, you know, thought my order didn't apply. Let's really find out what's going on. And was there this meeting where they're going to say f you to the courts? But he absolutely has mentioned Mr. Rovaney specifically. And I, you know, I think his intention right now is to put him on the stand.
- [43:50]
Michael Popak
I would assume the other half of that equation is somebody like Drew Ensign, who, who's, who's in the letter, the whistleblower letter.
- [43:59]
Lee Gelert
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, you know, and he was the original lawyer on that emergency Saturday night hearing when the order was issued. So I suspect he will be on Judge Boasberg's mind and a number of other people. But I think also Judge Bosebert wants to know who else was involved because at this point, the whistleblower complaint, I don't think names everyone or names titles. And maybe the whistleblower, Mr. Vaney, doesn't actually know who all the people involved were who made the ultimate decision. So I think there's a lot of fact finding going on. And you know, and as you know, this issue transcends any particular substantive issue. I mean, if we can't count on the United States Department of Justice adhering to court orders, that's a whole other world we're in.
- [44:45]
Michael Popak
So what's going to happen? I mean, I think Boasberg is going to do his best job of fact finding. I think the Trump administration is going to refuse to participate and play in the sandbox. I think they're going to try to take an appeal to the D.C. circuit Court again, if they can try to get that blocked, and they're going to go up to the United States Supreme Court. And they're going to argue that Boseberg's not being nice to them, that the Supreme Court already overturned the underlying order, so they shouldn't be held accountable in contempt because they, because they refused to comply with a unconstitutional order. And we're going to see what the United States Supreme Court does. They rarely back federal judges these days. Maybe Judge Boasberg's different, although I doubt it. Even though he's friends with Roberts. And I think he went to, he was a roommate, I think, for Justice Kavanaugh in law school. But it's important. And the specter of seeing Donald Trump trying to hide somebody who's unethical like Emil Bovey, and he got him confirmed the 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals and have him now dragged back and have to testify potentially in a federal court about whether he is one of the people that's in criminal contempt. I mean, it's just sweet justice, don't you think? Let me move to Eric Swalwell, friend of the show, friend of the podcast, friend of Midas Touch. And he's had it and I appreciate it. And now on the heels of Letitia James and James Comey's indictments being dismissed, we know how the Letitia James case came to be. It's a conspiracy between Bill Pulte, the head of Freddie Mae, and Fannie Mac, Pam Bondi, Ed Martin in the Department of Justice, head of the weaponization Committee, apparently, and effectively Donald Trump all conspiring against these people. Pulte goes and slaps together a cut and paste of some mortgage documents which should be really private and not public. There's no fraud investigation going on at Freddie Mae and Fannie Mac against Adam Schiff or Lisa Cook on the Federal Reserve or Letitia James. But he suggests that there is, right? He, he puts shade on them. Then he puts up selective parts of signature blocks, signature lines, but leaves out the rest of the document, leaves out documents that conflict with his argument that mortgage fraud was committed because there's too many primary residents or she wasn't supposed to rent out the house or, you know, he lives in California. Why does he have a house in Maryland? You know, all sorts of stupid shit. That's not a crime. And Eric Swalwell got caught up in all of that. He decided to sue. And I think it's a great move. Just like Michael Wolf is suing Melania Trump in New York for a declaration that what he has said and what he has done and what it's report and what he's reported is not defamation against her after he got a demand letter for $1 billion. Swalwell cut off Bill Pulte at the past at the pass and filed a suit, you know, including for defamation and for improper, you know, violation of other laws related to his private mortgage documents. And I think that's. And to stop the investigation from going on. I like that approach. I like to get Eric Swalwell on the show here on the intersection. We could talk more about it. That's what you gotta do to a bully. You gotta go up to a bully, punch him in the face and take his lunch money. And that's what the Democrats are starting to do. Has anybody noticed the incredible shrinking president that I've been talking about for the last nine months? He's now about three foot tall and he goes, and he goes to Betty, he goes to Betty Bai with his baba. Very early, they call lid on their day, like really early. When Joe Biden used to do that is, oh, Joe Biden is octogenarian, can't keep up. Is anybody home? What about Trump? Anybody see him kind of fall out of Marine One and kind of trudge along four o' clock in the afternoon? Trudge along the White. White House lawn. God, you would have thought he was chopping wood all day or working in a coal mine instead of playing golf in Mar A Lago pulls his hat down. Yeah, he looks gassed. He looks fatigued. You know, it's tiresome to lose your grip on power. The narrative has changed. The sand has shifted under his feet. People hate his economy. People hate his immigration policy. People hate his the way he trolls the poor. They hate a heartless president. They hate him. And he has not come to grips with it yet. And he thinks he has all these kind of superpowers. But MAGA is about to implode. It's not just Marjorie Taylor Greene. There's going to be half a dozen congresspeople who are gonna be heading for the exit. And those seats can be a potential, a potential bonanza for Democrats. And hear that flipping sound? That's the sound of seats being flipped. We got special elections, two or three of them coming up the next three or four months. Democrat, Democrat, Democrat. Some of these places are like deep in the red, like Marjorie Taylor Greene. But you never know what's going to happen in special elections. You don't know who's going to show up. It's not your typical voter, somebody that's motivated, somebody that's angry. It's somebody that wants to pay. Pay back Donald Trump who does that Sound like independents and Democrats. That's who show up in special elections and want to be heard. Three more coming. Those go Democrat or anywhere or the majority of them. And that lead in the Senate drops to two or three for, for maga. We haven't even gotten to the midterms yet. Gets down below three and maga. Mike Johnson, who's likely to lose his gavel, he's going to have to continue to caucus with Hakeem Jeffries and get the Democrats to vote with him because he won't have enough votes. And Republicans are now coming forward. There's a new, there was a new report that came out and Republicans are saying morale is terrible. They're tired of being whipped by the by Trump in the White House, that they are smug the White House that they look down and patronize the elected officials in the House and they blame Mike Johnson for having them get beat up regularly by Donald Trump. And they're rebelling. That's a good thing. This is the implosion that we've been waiting for. This is the rejection of Donald Trump not only in the polls. All you got to do is be a political candidate and say 26% of independent support Donald Trump. 26%. I got to find a way to triangulate. I got to find a way to get away from Donald Trump when I'm running for election. You know Donald Trump's oh, I doors them, they're going to win. Forget it. We want Donald Trump to endorse right now. It's a negative. He has negative brand equity. He has negative goodwill. Yeah. So the next on the totem pole that we need to talk next thing on the list we need to talk about and I love ending this way is on Joe Schnit. Poor sad sack of a Department of justice senior official in charge of the witness protection program. He wants to be in the witness protection program now. In September, he started communicating and dming with somebody on the Hinge dating app. Somebody named Skyler, except that wasn't her real name. And they started setting up a little a little drink, a little meeting, a little coffee. He thought it was a romantic pursuit. Skyler worked for James o' Keefe of Project Veritas. She also worked for Turning Point. She was there as an undercover operative. And the conversation because it was all the news turned to Epstein and Joe Schnit committed a Freudian slip in Washington. He accidentally told the truth about the COVID up about they're going to cover up the names of all the Republicans and of Donald Trump. And then Question how Ghislaine Maxwell, a convicted child sex trafficker, could get a low security prison where she could prey on young women in prison. We have the clip. Let's play the clip. Those trials do exist.
- [53:56]
Lee Gelert
Yeah. Thousands and thousands of ages of violence. They'll redact every Republican or conservative person in those files. Leave all the liberal Democratic people in those files.
- [54:08]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
I think they visited that Maxwell person.
- [54:11]
Michael Popak
Yeah.
- [54:13]
Lee Gelert
Got transferred to a minimum security prison too, recently, which is against BOP policy because she's, she's a convicted sex offender. They're offering her something to keep them out of shape.
- [54:25]
Michael Popak
What do you do for work here?
- [54:26]
Lee Gelert
I work for the Department of Justice.
- [54:28]
Michael Popak
Okay.
- [54:28]
Lee Gelert
And they're like 23. I'm an analyst. I'll be acting deputy chief of our office for a few months starting next week. I work closely with, like, all the federal law enforcement agencies, the U.S. attorney's offices, the prosecutors and stuff. The thing is, it's what you're saying, because I do deal with so many of the agencies like the Bureau of Regimes, the Marshals Service, U.S. attorney's Offices.
- [54:54]
Michael Popak
And from that he got fired. Okay. First he had a, like, publicly, it was like a public flagellation. You know, he like, tarred and feathered himself. He wrote an E. Attacks to his boss. I didn't know. I didn't use my real name. I didn't. I said I was an analyst. It was my own opinion. I don't, I don't know anything. And then the Department of Justice, with some unnamed unknown spokesperson, DOJ Spocks 4, 3, 5, 7, handle like a troll, said he, he has no knowledge, he has no information. Uh, and then they fired him. I mean, and now he's suing to get his job back. I don't blame him. Of course they sue. He's suing to get his job back. And again, Donald Trump cut his nose despite his face, because Donald Trump put out of business something called the Merit Systems Protection Board, along with the National Labor Relations Board, along with the Office of Special Counsel. You put them all together. That's what Congress created in order to protect federal workers. But Donald Trump put them all out of business. As I said they. As I said he would. He never replaced the Democrats after he fired them and the Supreme Court allowed him to do it. They found, oh, no. And it binges on the executive power. Congress can't say who we can hire and fire. They created the agency, but once they created it, it's all in the hands of the president. So he fired, you know, the National Labor Relations Board. He fired the Federal Trade Commission head and he never replaced them. So there is no Merit Systems Protection Board to protect federal federal workers. So when they have a complaint, they get fired, they have someplace to go. There's no special counsel, special counsel's office to represent them. And there's no National Labor Relations Board for other public unions and union members. And there won't be until 2028 when the Democrats take back power. So the argument that was raised by Schneid is just like Maureen Comey, James Comey's daughter, who's suing to be reinstated in her job as U.S. attorney in New York. Assistant U.S. attorney Schnitz said it would be futile for me to file with the Merit Systems Protection Board because there isn't one. There's one person that's not a quorum. And I think he's right. Donald Trump killed the administrative process. This would have been. We would never have heard about this. This would have been buried in some administrative law judges, dusty courtroom hearing room somewhere. But because Donald Trump killed the Merit Systems Protection Board, genius. All these people who have grievances represented by law firms that have been created in the last year or two to support victims of Donald Trump, who support people who've been tortured by Donald Trump, they rush into federal court now, as they should. So I wanted to make this sort of on the short side. People are getting ready for their holidays. I appreciate that. Thanksgiving, as I said at the top of the show, one of my favorites. People ask Popak, how can we support all that? You do. I mean, I do 40 videos a week. I built a channel with the Midas Touch brothers called Legal AF. I built a podcast called Legal AF. We've got over 70 videos on Legal AF a week. We got a tremendous group of contributors from Sidney Blumenthal and Sean Wilentz on Court of History to Democracy Forward and Sky Perryman talking about her cases. Over a hundred. We interview the Democratic attorneys general on a regular basis, all 23 of them. I just got back from a conference related to them. We've got Court Accountability Action looking at fraud in the federal court system where we bring on former judges and elected officials to brief our audience. Shan Wu, the guys from Civil Action. It's just a tremendous group. We got the podcasters like it's complicated. Asha and Renato got Unprecedented with me and Dina Dahl and the Intersection, just a really one stop shopping clearinghouse for all things law and politics. And it's all because of you. And we're gonna crack the 1 million subscriber barrier. And people ask me, what does that do? It's not ego. The bigger we get, the more street cred we get, the higher our ratings on legal AI, on YouTube for podcasts. We're already in the top intersections, in the top 50 or so legal AF in the top 20. Bigger we get, the more it's easier for me to get guests. It's easier for me to get elected officials and Jamie Raskin's of the world and former federal judges and attorneys general and the heads of the American Civil Liberties Union and the head of democracy. Forward to all. Come on. Got a great new interview that's going up this week with the head of the group that's responsible for defending voting maps, congressional maps, I mean, just an array of people you can't find anywhere else. Only on Legal AF YouTube channel. Take a moment, figure out whether you're subscribed. Hit the subscribe button. It's all free. No paywall, no outside investors. But when we crack that million subscriber barrier in the next three weeks or so, great things happen. Really. It's like we broke the bank at Vegas, you know, it's like cherry, cherry, cherry. And just everything happens. It's really great. Just like Vegas, right? And then we've got Legal AF the substack. Everything that I talked about tonight is up on Legal AF substack one way or the other. Videos, commentary, live filings AF for you to read. The things that I talk about, written work, product and analysis, just amazing things. And for seven bucks a month, a month, not a week, you can become a card carrying member of Legal af. Help us pay for our production team, help us pay for our video editors, help us pay to keep us on the air and keep this content coming to you. Yeah, that helps. Pay to defend our First Amendment rights. So we can defend your First Amendment rights. So I'm glad you're here every Tuesday night at the intersection with Michael Popak. So until my next report, I'm Michael. Shout out to the Midas Mighty and the Legal afers. Can't get your fill of Legal af. Me neither. That's why we formed the Legal AF substack. Every time we mention something in a hot take, whether it's a court filing or a oral argument, come over to the substack. You'll find the court filing in the oral argument argument there, including a daily roundup that I do called wait for it Morning af. What else? All the other contributors from Lingolayo for there as well. We got some new reporting, we got interviews, we got ad. Free versions of the podcast and hot takes where legal AF on substack. Come over now to free subscribe. The world moves fast. Your workday even faster Pitching products, drafting reports, analyzing data. 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- [62:26]
Podcast Host (Ad Reader)
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