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Morning Zoe. Got donuts. Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage? Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me. So Dana. Oh no, I'm not really prepared.
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New line minimum 100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oaklove Speed Test Intelligence data 1H 2025 visit t mobile.com A mochi moment from Tara who writes for.
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Years all my doctor said was eat.
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Less and move more, which never worked. But you know what does?
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The simple eating tips from my nutritionist at Mochi.
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I'm Mayra Amit, founder of Mochi Health.
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To find your mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com Tara is a mochi member, compensated for her story.
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Of $45 for three month plan. $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. Seemintmobile.com welcome to a special election Night in America edition of the Intersection with Michael Popak. Welcome to the Midas Touch Network and stay immediately after the intersection, which is going to have for the first time ever, a live guest. A surprise live guest. Stay to the conclusion because we're going to throw it right over to the Midas Touch coverage all night of election night in America, Important races in New Jersey, in California, in Pennsylvania and in Georgia, municipal races. And this is now an effort, first time that we've had the opportunity with an election night since Donald Trump's been elected to send a message loud and clear to renounce Donald Trump. His Trumpism, Trumponomics, his lawlessness, his depravity, his immorality is all on the ballot today in various ways, whether it's the governor of New Jersey, which based on the results so far of knowing who voted, will be an overwhelming, I believe, victory for Mickey Cheryl in New Jersey, in Virginia, in the governor race there in California, Prop 50, and whether they're going to be able to redo their maps to add five seats to their congressional maps. And the special guest I have is going to be coming in right after, right after our ad break is going to be Attorney General Rob Bonta, because this is a show that's devoted to justice, to the rule of law. And I can't think of anybody better right now to have with us than Attorney general of California, Rob Bonta. And he's got a big win in Rhode Island. No, not that one. Same judge, though. Chief Judge McConnell of Rhode island has no fear. Chief Judge McConnell of Rhode island has no fear. He issued not one but two orders in the last 24 hours against the Trump administration. In one, he issued a injunction forcing SNAP payments for the underprivileged in America, 40 million of them who deserve not to die from malnutrition. But he went one step further. He just also issued today an injunction. And that's the snap. Thank you. He also issued an injunction against the Department of Transportation for trying to tie the. There we go. Trying to tie immigration requirements and immigrant immigration policies against the, against the use of grants in transportation. Let's bring the screen back to me. Okay. So Judge McConnell, Chief Judge of Rhode island, very important. And Rob Bonta is going to talk about all of that when he joins us in the afternoon. Lindsay Halligan in hot water. Lindsey Halligan, it looks like she's ever so close to being bounced by Judge Curry. And Judge Curry issued an order today. She's the judge presiding over the disqualification motion against Lindsay Halligan for being illegally appointed. And she's none to please Judge Curry with the spoon feeding or hiding of grand jury information. She demanded that the Trump administration and the Department of Justice turn over to, for her review all documents. And she meant all documents related to Lindsey Halligan's participation in the grand jury process to obtain those indictments against James Comey and Letitia James. And she meant all. She didn't get all. She didn't get anywhere close to all. And she issued her new order. We have a lot of orders being issued now that are important to our audience. The 11th Circuit Court of Appeals issued an order telling Judge Cannon to, you know, water, get off the pot. She's got 60 days now, 57 days to issue H. Her order about whether volume two of Jack Smith's Mar Lago final report that's been buried with Pam Bondi is going to be released to the American public. That is an issue that's up for grabs. The 11th Circuit has told Judge Cannon, get off the stick. Make your ruling. American Oversight and the Knight foundation both filed motions to intervene in the prosecution of Donald Trump. That case at Mar A Lago for the sole purpose of revealing to the American public the now long hidden volume two of Jack Smith's report. Jack Smith is back in the news. I like the talking of Jack Smith. I like the one. I liked him when he, when he. It was. Spoke softly and carried a big indictment. I like that, too. But we, we used to joke about him on the Midas Dutch network in Legal af. He was the subway guy. He had the subway sandwich under one arm, a thermos in the other. Just chopping wood, doing his job. You rarely heard from him unless he had an indictment or a superseding indictment or a final report to talk to the American people about. But now he's, you know, it's a classic for those that remember the movie Taxi Driver and Robert De Niro. You're talking to me. You, you want, you want to indict me, then I want to talk to the American people and finally get my chance to disclose to them what I know about the criminality of Donald Trump and maybe others like Cash Patel, because I was denied that opportunity when the Supreme Court shut down my cases under immunity, the immunity decision. And I was denied that right in the Mar A Lago case at all. Jack Smith doesn't want to be behind a closed door, you know, twiddling his thumbs with the oversight committee of the House. He wants to speak to the American people, and we certainly want him to. In fact, I just interviewed, and it's up on Legal AF YouTube right now. Today, I interviewed, along with Lisa Graves, Senator Blumenthal of Connecticut, about the weaponization of the Department of Justice, about the corruption of the Trump administration that they're trying to reign in and he's the ranking Democrat, the ranking leader on the Senate Permanent Committee on Investigations. And Senator Blumenthal said two things. One, that sort of blew my mind and my mind is not easily blown for the, for those that know me pretty well. One thing he said was I said, you need to get Jack Smith in front of you. As if I had to tell Senator Blumenthal that. And Senator Blumenthal said, absolutely, we've invited Jack Smith. We want him to testify in our what, what they call the shadow, the shadow hearings. And he will. And so I think one way or the other, we're going to hear in public, under oath from Jack Smith about his cases. The thing that blew my mind though, is I, we, we're talking about how do you reign in when you're in the minority? And hopefully we, we'll start changing that in tonight's election in terms of the direction of the country. But, but right now the center, you know, the Democrats are in the minority, especially in the Senate. How do you reign in? And he said, well, one of the things that we, that every, every moment in history has had a whistleblower, somebody within the Department of Justice, for instance, that comes forward while they're still employed to talk about the criminality of the Department of Justice. They have already, and this was also sort of breaking news, they have already alumni and alumna of the Department of Justice working with the Senate Democrats about where the bodies are buried, maybe literally within the Department of Justice. But the fact that he said we're waiting for the whistleblower, it was almost like a call to arms for somebody with conscience and courage within the Department of Justice to come forward and speak to his committee. And he believes it's going to happen because it always has. And we certainly support his efforts and our audience would support morally, emotionally and otherwise the courage of somebody to step forward at this moment in time, just as they did during the Nixon White House, the other criminal president that we had and all of that. So on this special election night, for many, it's special for many, many reasons. It's our first opportunity to really vote. I mean, there's been special elections. The Democrats certainly have done well in those. But this is a broad based election tonight and this should be a referendum on Donald Trump. And I don't want to go out on a limb, you know, and talk it up and then be like, oh crap, it look, looks like Trump did well tonight. I don't see that, I don't see it in the polling. I don't see it in the streets. I don't see it in the interaction with our audience that I have on a regular basis. You know, if I'm taking the temperature of America right now, it is, it is completely against Donald Trump. I mean, his polling numbers are in the, have a three in front of it. It's the lowest polling numbers for a second term for a president ever. You know, and yet Donald Trump continues to double down against America and to try to crush the soul of America, try to, and basically destroy Americans. I mean, there's no other way. When I, when I talk about the food stamp snap program and the callousness and immorality by which the Trump administration operates and what groups like 23 attorneys general, led by Attorney General Rob Bonta, who if you missed it at the top of my opening here, is going to be joining as my first live guest ever at the intersection just after our break. He led the charge. Well, he's leading the charge in 50 different cases against the Trump administration, but certainly filed one of the two major cases to try to restart the $8 billion of funding this week necessary to give hope and nourishment and food to the most disadvantaged and underprivileged in our society. Those that if you call yourself a patriot, if you call yourself a lover of this country and its values, you need to pull closer to your bosom, into your heart, not reject them. And I don't care what religion you are or no religion, that you are doing this to the people below the poverty line, babies, children, veterans, disabled, the elderly is a, we have a word for it in my, in my culture, it's a shonder, it is a sin. And Donald Trump doubles down on it. You know, trolling the most fragile of our population today and forcing groups like the 23 attorneys general and public interest groups like Democracy Forward to run into two separate courts in New England federal courts, obtain orders when Donald Trump again trolls them again, get a different motion filed today on an emergency basis, get a new hearing set up in order to get the flow of those funds to people. And if you want to put yourself in the shoes of those Americans, some of which are in our audience, just think what it would be like going to your local supermarket, getting into your basket. Not, not the little goodies, not the, the basics, the necessities, the essentials, the things you need for you, your family, an elderly person in your household, a child, a baby in your household to survive, basic nourishment. And you put your basket together and you go to the checkout and you pull out your wallet and you have 56 of what you need, which is what Donald Trump proposed to do. You think you're going to be able to go to the parking lot with your shopping cart or walk out the front door? You're not. And so the fact that Donald Trump would use as human hostages, political hostages, the most fragile in our society, tells you everything you need to know about maga, everything you need to know about the depravity of the Trump administration and why we've got to run them out on a rail come the midterms. But as, as Senator Blumenthal and I also have the, this is a big week for me for interviews. Therefore for you, I had the honor of also interviewing with Lisa Graves, Representative Grijalva of the fighting 7th congressional district in Arizona about her not being sworn in and her inability not only to represent the 800,000 people war that make up her district, but Latina and the Mexican American community and the, and the Latin female community in America who need her voice in the halls of Congress. And she's being denied that and they're being denied that so that MAGA Mike Johnson can keep Congress shut and not have an Epstein vote. About the files which Representative elect Grava said she's going to sign the petition to discharge the bill to the House floor about the Epstein, the Epstein files. She's been the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein. Many of them have rallied around Representative Grijalva, but she said the same thing that Senator Blumenthal said. They just didn't know. It was back to back interviews. But they had, I don't think they could not have hurt each other. And they said that voting is a muscle. Voting is a muscle that atrophies if it's not used. And so now's the time. Today was a day we'll have others to practice to make sure you're registered, to make sure you can absentee vote, you can mail in vote, you can early vote, you can and, and you're registered to do all those things. I assure you if you are in a red state or a purple state, the rules have changed on you about your registration. You may have been taken off the rolls. Now is the time to find out as we, as we are here in election night in America. Let me, let me now pick up with the Halligan matters. Then I want to turn to snap as we kind of move into the period where I'm going to have Attorney General Rob Bonta join us tonight and thank you. For our audience tonight. We had like a thousand people at the, at the door, at the gate, as they say, as we were about to open. And, and just as another reminder, we'll put a link, I think there's a link in the notes. But as soon as this is over, it. Right, right at 8pm Eastern time on the dot, we're going to transfer it over to the Midas Touch election night coverage. You're not going to want to miss that. I'll be there later in the evening to talk about how the, the law and politics, the legal cases, the ones against the Latin community, the immigration just, you know, the, the inhumane immigration policy, economic policy of the Trump administration, how that impacted the Latin vote tonight, how that impacted the independent vote, the women vote, those that support and defend the Latin and, and, and female population in this country. Because it has an impact when Donald Trump trolls poor people today on Election Day. That's not, I mean, that's not a good thing. I saw if, if I could ever feel sorry for him, which I never could. I saw a picture today. I don't think we have it, but I saw a picture today of like a lonely Donald Trump shrunken down to size with a red hat. Lord knows what it said on it, walking through that corridor along what used to be the Rose Garden, now some sort of Motel 6 patio on the way to who knows where. We're just wandering, wandering around by himself on election night. You know, he probably did a mail in ballad somewhere and Lord knows where back in Florida, even though he constantly attacks that. So speaking of attacks, let's transition to Lindsay Halligan and her problems. How do, where do I begin? Maybe she shouldn't take, she shouldn't have taken the job of becoming the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia with absolutely no experience. I mean, it's like a Halloween costume she put on. The federal prosecutor's costume showed up at the grand jury room. I'm here. What do I do now? I scrubbed in. Where's the brain surgery start? You know, Karen Freeman, Agnifolo, who's with me on the Legal AF podcast, talks often about the training that goes into being a prosecutor. And like, you don't start with the attorney general of a state for mortgage fraud or the former FBI director. You start with like public urination or intoxication and you work your way up to maybe 10 years later handling a case like this. Nope. Lindsey Allegan, within hours of being knighted as a federal prosecutor with zero experience in that arena, goes in and gets her indictment. And Lord knows what she said to grand juries. To get those indictments? I mean, you know, did she violate the sixth Amendment rights of the, of the two political critics of Donald Trump, James Comey and Letitia James? Lord knows what she said. Did she hold them hostage? Why did the one for Comey go to Loma 7 o' clock at night? Why did she walk out with two pieces of paper that both said indictment when only one could be? Did she? You know, there's magic language you can use, you should use as a prosecutor when you're in a grand jury. And then there's cardinal sins and the golden rule that you can't violate and things you can't say. And how many times do you think she crossed over those lines and said things she wasn't supposed to say? And now two different groups want to find out what she said in a grand jury. Judge Curry in South Carolina, she issued an order because. Because the motion to dismiss where the motion to disqualify Lindsay Halligan for being illegally appointed was assigned outside of Virginia to a South Carolina federal judge named Curry. Now she doesn't need to know what happened in the grand jury in order for her to rule whether under a statute called 546, the Vacancy Reform act, whether statutorily from an interpretation standpoint, Lindsay Halligan was properly appointed or not. Or she's one too many acting interim U.S. attorneys appointed by Pam Bondi like she's number two when she could only have number one. And then you turn it over to the district judges of Virginia of Eastern District of Virginia. She doesn't need to know what happened in the grand jury. She only needs to know that if she's also properly focused on remedy. What do I do if I, if I determine that Lindsey Halligan should be balanced as a prosecutor, what do I do with the indictment? What was her role in the grand jury? Was somebody else there for her? I know she signed it, but maybe somebody else was there. What did she say? So she demanded Judge Curry by five o' clock yesterday that the entirety, all documents related to the grand jury and the transcripts, the documents related and even internal communication, whatever about Lindsey Halligan had been turned over to her and she didn't get it. She got a half assed transcript spoon fed to her by the government. Like there you go. Now look, I've been a federal practitioner in courts like this for the last 35 years. And when a federal judge or any judge in a black robe tells you to do something, you don't deviate from that. You don't do half of it. You Tell me that you, you, you comply or you're in contempt eventually. So she gave them one more choice. Chance. She issued an order. It's up on legal AF substack for you today. In which Judge Curry said, I looked at what you sent me and you didn't give me everything. And she's especially interested in the two indictments, the case of two indictments, which you're not supposed to have two indictments. You're supposed to have one true bill of indictment. But Lindsey Halligan came out with like two pieces of paper and the. I hate to, you know, use to, to make it comical, but it's like, you know, I have a young daughter, you know, be like a toddler coming home. Look, I got two report cards. Only one can be real. So she comes out with one that's an indictment for three counts against James Comey and one for two with some marginalia written by the grand jury and they're both signed. And the judge said, sorry, the magistrate judge said, how do you have two? She's no, I, I only signed the, the, the one with the two count. She says, no, you signed both three and two. And so the judge, Judge Curry and her order said, yeah, I want to get to the bottom of how that multiple indictment thing happened as well. So they have till Wednesday and if she doesn't get it by Wednesday, then she's going to start progressive discipline. She's going to start doing contempt proceedings and fines and calling everybody in. And this hearing's going fast. I was on with Adam Classfeld. All rise. News on a substack live today. I think I heard him say that it's, I think the hearings next week on whether Halligan gets bounced and the context, the backdrop for this is not great for him. You know, a federal judge bounced. The U. S. Attorney in the, in la, you know, Alina Haba's about to get bounced by the third Circuit in New Jersey there. She's getting bounced now whether on appeal, first to the fourth Circuit and in North Carolina and then over to the United States Supreme Court. We'll have to see. I've read through their analysis. It's not very good. I'm talking about the Trump administration, but. And Bondi knows it because Bondi's now backdating documents. Nothing says, I've got a problem like a backdated document. So, so in particular, in particular, I'm just checking them on my guest, according to my producer, AG Bonta has confirmed and he will be in after our break. When you back, data document. When which Pam Bondi did, to retroactively validate the indictment that Lindsay Halligan did back in September. You're in trouble. And so she filed a document where she said, hi, Lindsay. Hi, Pam Bondi. As the Attorney General and the power, no case cited, no statute cited, I hereby ratify everything that Lindsay Halligan did. Really? I don't think that's going to work either, as Judge Curry ultimately makes your decision. And then we'll have to see what happens to the indictment, because Comey's filed three or four motions against the indictment, and Letitia James is about to file her motions against the indictment. Her particular indictment as Letitia James, also wearing her hat as the New York Attorney general, is also fighting off subpoenas that the federal Department of Justice has served on her in her capacity as the Attorney General of New York to find out why she went after Donald Trump before he was president about his persistent fraud for 10 years in the state of New York, along with his family. Because it still sticks in Donald Trump's, Donald Trump's craw that his companies in New York are still under a monitor. A former federal judge who watches everything that an appellate court affirmed, the fraud that was found by Judge Angoron against Trump and his kids for falsifying business records and personal financial statements. So now he's having his Department of Justice go after Letitia James, led by John Sarcone up in the Northern District of New York, and, and Ed Martin, you know, the weaponization guy down in D.C. so she's got to fight all that off as well. So, you know, look, we have, we have that going on, which is important because I think you got to draw the line in the sand if you're the enemies or the, or the what perceived enemies of Donald Trump. And, and the eyes or the eyes of the nation are watching what federal judges do and defense lawyers do to protect these people. Because, you know, it's going to be Adam Schiff next or Jack Smith or Merrick Garland or Lisa Monaco or other members of the Department of Justice or, you know, Christopher Wray of the FBI. You could just see the list is to try to tie the Democrats up in investigations throughout his term, to try to sully the Democratic brand. That's all we're watching. And that's why tonight on election night, which hopefully you'll join Midas in about a half an hour. So important first opportunity for America really to respond to what they're seeing and to vote, to actually vote. Polling is great. Crowds in the street. I love, especially the size of them, 5 million, 7 million, 10 million. The, the wins in court, winning 93, 90% of the time with these cases is fantastic. But there's no substitute for voting and, and the results hopefully will be borne out. We'll be covering them in more detail tonight. I'm let me give you a quick up update of what we're going to cover today. We're going to talk about the snap payments, Judge McConnell and Judge Talwani, one judge in Rhode island, one judge in Massachusetts, orders that have come out and 42 million people's lives hanging in the balance. I mean, no other way to put it. As the government goes into day, I don't know, 53, 55, 112 of the shutdown and every day it's shut down, it is impacting in a negative way and putting them at risk. Some of the most fragile people in our society that rely on state funding and federal funding just to survive, whether it's for health care, for drugs, for food, for rent, for, for shelter, for clothing, and as many billionaires and almost trillionaires that we have in this country, there are not enough food, banks, charitable organizations in America to fill the need in the giant holes in our social safety net and the giant holes that were blown there by Donald Trump and his administration since the start when he cut funding to all the states. He, he's trying to change the relationship between the American people and the federal government. No, he's trying to throw the most fragile of our population who require a social safety net, he's trying to throw them down, down a sewer. He's killing people. I mean, I'm not put this any better. He's, he's killing other Americans to make cheap political points. So we're going to talk about what the attorneys general, what the public interest groups on Friday. This, this is, this is very, very fortuitous today. Rob Bonta, attorney general, California, leading the charge and one of the two snap cases. Friday I have Sky Perryman of Democracy Forward joining me for an interview. And we have a playlist with her. She's on Legal AF a lot with us talking about her case because she had another great win. And while we have them, Attorney General Banta had another big win today in front of Judge McConnell. Lucky Judge McConnell up in Rhode island about Trump administration and Department of Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy trying to tie important infrastructure, bridges and tunnels and roadways that if you don't fix, redesign and maintain, people die at very high rates of speed. And trying to tie that to you need to do Immigration enforcement with us. You can't be a sanctuary city or a state, even though federal judges have said you can. And we're not going to do that bridge project, that tunnel project, you know, that precarious wooden bridge in your community. Oh, it'll fall down. And this is the carrot and stick that's so disgusting as it's being used by the Trump administration for reward and punishment. You know, if you want to be rewarded, okay, then contribute $300 million to the destruction of the White House and the East Wing and the memory of all first ladies that resided there. Or as one first lady called it, the heart of America is the east wing. If the brains are the West Wing, although I doubt she was. She thought there would be a guy like Donald Trump in the West Wing. But then the East Wing was the, was the heart and the heart has been destroyed. It's been ripped out. And the dozens and dozens of companies, many of which have major financial ties to the government and business before the government, many of them, Lockheed Martin alone has 100 million or a hundred, I think it's $100 billion contract with, with the Defense Department and others have or had SEC investigations, DOJ investigations or consent decrees. This is a rogues gallery, you know, of collecting, of collecting all this, of all this money from people that had business in front of the government. And so public interest groups are looking into that. Senator Blumenthal and the Democrats are looking into that. We're going to talk about Judge Immergut. This will tie back to Cal California Attorney General Banta, who issued an order on, on preliminary injunction until she issues her permanent injunction by this Friday against Donald Trump's use of the National Guard in Oregon. And while, and while she does that, the shadow of the United States Supreme Court and their ultimate decision on the National Guard will come into play. And then tomorrow, join us on Legal af. We're doing a live stream of this landmark oral argument about tariffs, about whether Donald Trump's tariffs on every country on all goods indefinitely is what the founding fathers envisioned when they created Article 1, giving that power to Congress only and not to the president. And whether the statute that Trump is relying on, which never mentions the word tariff, somehow implicitly gives him that power. And I'm going to talk about, I'm going to give you a kind of a, a listener's guide of how to analyze tomorrow's oral argument, because I'll know all I need to know within the first 10 minutes of that oral argument. I'm going to tell you how about whether they're going to tear down the billions and billions of dollars. I mean the tariffs. Besides this inhumane immigration policy, the, the hallmark, the, the framework of the entire Trump administration, domestic and foreign policy, is tariffs. Yet there's no statutory or constitutional right to do what he did. Now let's see if the if The Supreme Court Maga 6 have the brass ones to make the right ruling and stop him in his tracks from doing this as being a bridge too far. We're going to talk about all of that and I'll bring back a special guest in Attorney General Rob Bona on this special election night edition of the Intersection. But first, we're going to take a moment out for our sponsors. Now look, there's lots of ways to support what I do, the podcast and things in the Legal AF ecosystem. This, this podcast doing great, regularly tops the top 100 in podcasts. We're sort of brand new on YouTube, so but we're on audio podcast platforms like Spotify and Apple. Leave a five star review, tell your friends about it, listen to it there, send this video off. We regularly get a few hundred thousand people watching us send it off and invite them to join our community right as part of their First Amendment expression. And then on the Legal AF side, we just crossed 900,000. We're up to 910,000 subscribers over on Legal AF YouTube. We're going to hit a million subscribers if it kills me. And it's important not for ego. It's important because it gives us the street cred to be able to bring on guests like Senator Blumenthal and Representative Grijalva and AG Bonta and all the other commentators and contributors in that universe that you want to hear from. And that's the way you can, you can help us. And then we've got Legal AF substack where I do lives. I just did a great live today with Adam Klassfeld of All Rise News where we keep you up to date, we give you the actual filings, you could read them yourself from the courts and a lot of other amazing commentary on Legal a F sub stack. So come over there and become a member there as well. 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Honestly, I'm already thinking about replacing every other blanket I own with a A Lola. It's no surprise Lola is the world's number one blanket. Made with ultra soft vegan faux fur and a signature four way stretch. It's machine washable, no pilling, no shedding and it stays flawless after every wash. It's the perfect gift. Personal, beautiful and something people actually use every day. Give the gift of softness this holiday season with Lola Blankets For a limited time, our listeners are getting a huge 40% off their entire order at Lola Blankets.com by using code LEGAL AF at checkout. Just head to Lola Blankets.com and use code LEGAL AF for 40% off. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them that we sent you. Welcome back to a special Election Night edition of the Intersection. Such a special night and right after we're going to bring you right over to the Midas Brothers who are holding down and anchoring a special Election Night in America edition of the Midas Touch Network. I'll be joining them later to talk about how some of these lawsuits and legal cases against the Trump administration have impacted voting and I'm sure it has as we're starting to see the early returns in. And thank you again for supporting all that we do on Legal AF and here on the intersection. And it's also a special night because and I can't think of anybody better to, to do this with me is my first live guest ever on, I hear him laughing on, on the intersection. And we have Attorney General Rob Bonta of California. Hi, Attorney General Bonta.
- [38:06]
B
It is so great to be with you again, Michael. Thanks for having me.
- [38:09]
A
And, and our audience, I know is, is already thrilled and excited tonight. So much going on that's positive for the Democrats at the polls. You've always talked about crowds, courts and courage. And we're seeing the crowds at the poll and the courage to pull the lever against the Trump administration in states, including maybe you can give us at one point a little bit of an update of how Prop 50 is doing and the redistricting map issue that's on the ballot in California. But we, we started tonight's episode. I gave him a preview of the SNAP food stamp cases and laid it out, knowing that you'd be joining us. And there's two things that I really want to address with you along with anything else you'd like to share with our audience. One is we're going to talk about a lot, apparently about Judge McConnell, because we've got a ruling with Judge McConnell about, about the SNAP program that came out of a companion case of yours brought by Democracy Forward and some other groups in front of them. Then 24 hours later, you got a leading of the charge, you got a tremendous ruling against the transport, the Department of Transportation and from the same Judge McConnell. Right.
- [39:21]
B
We did. And it was a great order today. It was a final judgment in a case that we brought against the Trump administration, the Department of Transportation, for un, improperly unlawfully unconstitutionally trying to impose immigration enforcement conditions on transportation funding, funding that keeps planes in the air, that keeps cars on the road, that helps with our infrastructure, our transportation infrastructure around the country. And they were trying to withhold that funds unless there was a commitment to by our states to be engaged in immigration enforcement. And that was found to be unlawful, as we believed it would be and should be. And today we won a final so I just want to be clear about that. We went on a summary judgment and a final judgment issued. So this is not a temporary restraining order this is not a preliminary injunction. It's not a early peek at the merits. It's a final, complete decision on the merits. And certainly the case can be appealed. But we are now, because our cases have moved downfield quite a bit over the last nine months, we're getting to the final stages of some of the cases past the, the early emergency relief stage and into the final decision making. And there was some really pointed language in the decision. It wasn't just a sort of neutral decision by Judge McConnell. He said that the Trump administration was lawless and that their violation was blatant. And those were really important terms that we picked up on. And, you know, the judges don't always speak like that, but when the shoe fits, the words are used. And we thought those were appropriate words in this case.
- [40:57]
A
Yeah. I want our audience to. And we got about 10,000 people on with us just watching this live. I want our audience to know more about courageous judges and attorneys general who are fighting the fight every day against the Trump administration and its lawlessness. And I put right up there Judge McConnell. It's not the first time that we've talked about Judge McConnell. He came out of the box early on with a birthright citizenship case order against the Trump administration. And he's not shy. I did my own analysis of why I thought Judge Talwani in Massachusetts entered her order in your case a certain way and why he hours later was like, no, I'm issuing the injunction, start making the payments. I thought this is my own opinion. I thought Tani was very concerned about some Supreme Court precedent, especially that happened in her own courthouse with Judge Young about funding and the Trump administration. I thought she tried to thread the needle by giving them until Monday to come up with agency action and then she'll consider the TRO. So you were involved with that case, democracy forward McConnell, the same guy you just talked about in the Department of Transportation case. He was like, yeah, no, make all the funding. And if you're not all, if you're not entirely funding on Monday, then tell me Wednesday what agency action you're taking and why to make partial funding. But that has to start this week, too. And yet they didn't do it there. What let's, before we go back to the trans transportation case, let's stay on snap for a minute if you can. And I don't know, you know, I know there's a lot of things you can't. I don't want you to tip off strategy or tactics in such a fast moving case. But what are what it what are the attorneys general doing or what have they done now? They've, they've watched McConnell kind of step out in front with his orders and the new filing with a hearing now scheduled for Thursday as the Trump administration on election night tries to come back with no, no, we ignored Trump's social media post about not compl. Paying, be paying. How do you interpret all this and what are you doing in your particular case in front of Judge Talwani?
- [42:58]
B
Yeah, and I, I want to just double click on Judge McConnell. You know, deliberate, thoughtful, thorough, comprehensive, you know, adheres to the facts and the law, of course, and applies it and lets the chips fall where they may and where the chips fall quite often in the course, in the cases in his courtroom are firm decisions against a lawless law breaking Trump administration. And he's, as you said, not shy about issuing the order, finding the unlawfulness, the unconstitutionalist, saying if it's blatant, saying if it's lawless and then issuing the decision. And I appreciate that willingness to just go with the law and the facts, take them and not being intimidated, even when the Trump administration tries to intimidate judges, call for impeachment, call them so called judges, discredit them, undermine them. So I appreciate his approach and I want to point out that what we're seeing now with Democracy Forward with their case in Rhode island and the state AG's cases in Massachusetts is what we've seen all along here, which is we're all part of the same effort, the same ecosystem, the same outcome, which is to defend the rule of law, defend democracy, make sure that this President of the United States is following the law. And our position has been that we will meet the president at the boundaries of his authority. And we will say, you cannot pass here. You cannot cross this line. You have meets and you have bounds. You have restrictions and you have limits and you can't do the lawless thing. And so I appreciate that Democracy Forward is achieving results here as we are. At the same time, judges move within a range of reasonable options given the law and the facts. And Judge McConnell has moved a little more quickly and that's for the good, for the good of hungry Americans who need food and need it soon. So we believe that the contingency fund, which is five to six billion dollars, will be spent despite Trump's unhinged and reckless comments. I know that the attorneys are trying to rein that in and trying to recommit to the adherence to the court order, but the court has ordered that they need to spend the 5 to 6 billion. Unfortunately, the cost for SNAP benefits nationwide for the month of November is $8 billion. So it will only cover partial payments. Now, my view, and this is shared by many of my colleagues, and I think the law shows this, is that SNAP food stamps are an entitlement program. They shall be given, the benefits shall be given to anyone eligible. So the contingency funds is definitely a required source of funding to pay for the SNAP funds. But I believe that the government needs to find the funding to pay full benefits to all who are eligible to be consistent with law and consistent with congressional statutory requirement. So that's the next step. What, you know, going to court potentially and requesting that additional funds, including the tariff funds that are used right now in part to pay for wic, Women, Infants and Children for that program. I'd like to see everyone who is eligible under SNAP get fed. And that happened immediately consistent with this entitlement program. So we'll see if it happens first through Judge McConnell in Rhode island or through our case in Massachusetts. But that's the next step in our case to determine how best to achieve that result.
- [46:32]
A
And the, and the irony, ag Bonta, irony is the wrong word, is that the, the very reason the Democrats are not agreeing to reopen the government or that the Trump is not agreeing to reopen the government is over some of these exact same people in America and their need for health care at a reasonable price through Obamacare. I mean, people, if, you know, not our audience, of course, but you know, there's all this propaganda out there about what the Democrats are trying to accomplish. All they're trying to accomplish is to fix that aspect of that bill, that budget bill, to make sure that the most disadvantaged people in America, those that we should be pulling tighter to our bosom and should not be rejecting. I don't care what religion you are or no religion you are, that that's just immoral and depraved and then hit them again. So not only do they not have the health care they need under Donald Trump's program, and that's why the government shut down at moment, but those same people are not going to be nourished and are going to go hungry and possibly die while Donald Trump, I mean, I know, I know now who in his high school play played Ebenezer Scrooge. I mean, you know, he's like stealing Tiny Tim's turkey, right? Yeah.
- [47:46]
B
You know, the governor of our great state of California, Governor Newsom, recently saying Trump is waging a war on, on Thanksgiving with his, withholding of SNAP benefits, waging a war on Christmas with his tariffs, making the cost of toys, and it already waves war on Halloween with the tariffs and the high price of candy. But you're absolutely right. The Trump administration's position has been we will starve hungry Americans until you allow us to rip away health care from Americans. And it is an insane position to be taken. Health care and food should be accessible and affordable to all in America, the wealthiest country on the face of planet earth. And the President and the party in power need to negotiate. The President needs to negotiate with co equal branches of government. He is not a king, he's not a monarch, he's not a tyrant. He needs to negotiate in good faith, including stopping his lies about the fact that the radical leftist Democrats want to provide health care to undocumented immigrants. And that's what this is about, providing health care to illegal immigrants. That's not allowed under the law under the aca. So they're not negotiating in good faith. Meanwhile, Trump's focused on his $300 million gold plated ballroom and was overseas for quite a few days during the government shutdown. But you're right about the humanity here. The Democratic Party is the party of humanity, the party of compassion, the party of supporting our fellow Americans and helping those who were down on their luck and who need a helping hand, who need food, who deserve health care. And that's what we're fighting for, the well being and the, the improved life circumstances of the American people. And I appreciate that. That is our goal and our affirmative agenda. And it is righteous and right to be making.
- [49:40]
A
Absolutely. If you indulge us a little bit longer. Attorney General Bonta, let's return to that. That really, it really is earth shattering. It just, so many things happened today sort of got lost in the sauce a little bit with your big win. Final, final judgment with Judge McConnell about Donald Trump's attempts through his Department of Transportation to hold back critical infrastructure project money, bridges, tunnels, roads, where people die at high speeds if things aren't, aren't fixed because he wants to get rid of or go after sanctuary cities and states which federal judges have already told him he can't do. You can't conscript the states and violate their sovereignty under the 10th Amendment to do federal immigration enforcement. You want to do it, you use your federal immigration officers and all these other things. We'll get to the National Guard eventually, but you can't make that happen and then say, hey, you know that billion dollar tunnel project that you wanted to do? Or that Fill in the blank, project, no punishment, reward, you know, reward and punishment system that Donald Trump has come up with. So talk a little bit about that and the other attorneys general. How much, how much we're talking about in terms of billions of dollars in that case?
- [50:56]
B
Absolutely. And you know, this is how Trump thinks. He, he, everything is leverage, everything is a negotiation. There's no such thing as just executing the laws that Congress has, has implemented and pushing out the funds that they've appropriated, which is what the executive branch is supposed to do. He's, he's trying to use this funding as leverage to achieve some other goal that he has that is unrelated. That is an unconstitutional goal, as you have just stated. He's trying to violate the well established anti commandeering statute and component of the 10th amendment. This idea that the federal government can't commandeer or conscript or enlist into service the states to do their job for them and can't try to use funding as, as a, as a bludgeon and as coercion for that outcome. And this is well established law. And under Trump 1.0, he tried to do the same thing. California won then, just as we are winning now. We were able to prevent him from trying to do the same thing and got a great 9th Circuit order in that case. But of course, you know, this is what lawlessness is when you know what the law is or you've been told what the lie is, you've lost in the same set of circumstances before, and yet you try again. And so he's doing that here with the Department of Transportation funding. He did it, by the way, for VOCA funding, Victims of Crime act funding, the same conditioning of funding on immigration enforcement requirements for the states. And he also tried to do it with Department of Homeland Security funding, funding for counterterrorism, for cybersecurity, for disaster and emergency relief. And so, and he's lost each time. And on the VOCA case, he raised the white flag. He threw in the towel and cried uncle. And we won that case. And they're not trying to impose that condition anymore. We won the case on a final permanent injunction and final order on the Department of Homeland Security funding. And then we won today, finished the trifecta, wrapped it up and rolled it up with the win on the Department of Transportation funding. All told, it's billions of dollars nationwide, billions of, and California, always the biggest state in the nation that is the highest recipient of funding, as we should be, with the largest number of people of any state. So what I really want to put a Fine. Point on here is that we're winning final cases and we're having judges call out the lawlessness and we're having judges show the courage and the conviction of their duties as judicial officers to let the chips fall where they may follow the facts, follow the law wherever it goes. And where it keeps pointing to is a repeat offender, lawless president who is victimizing the American people where they're trying to strip away funding for the hungry and food for the hungry or, or ripping away health care through the, through the, through the legislation that he supports. Or here trying to take away infrastructure for keeping cars on the road and planes in the air or, you know, something that's important to all of us for our safety counterterrorism projects and of course, supporting victims of crime that they shouldn't be treated as pawns in this political game that Trump is trying to play. And when he tries to war with blue states who have pro safety, pro trust approaches to our immigrant communities. So another great win today among a lot of other really newsworthy occurrences today. But I did want to make sure we highlighted.
- [54:20]
A
Oh, absolutely. And I wanted our audience to Understand what the 23 Democratic attorneys general are doing on a daily basis with your, I keep saying 50, you might be up to a higher number of cases now in your 90 plus percent winning percentage. You know, it's really remarkable. And democracy Forward doing the same thing with their over 100 cases. And that makes our audience feel better and sleep better at night knowing that people like you are leading the charge, running into this burning building that Donald Trump has created and obtaining billions of dollars of aid that have been held up by Donald Trump. He knows he's going to lose these cases and yet he does it anyway in order to troll America, to troll the democratic brand and the blue states. And you know, on election night, we have to remember that we have the ability to run the bastards out on a rail, you know, and, and, and we're going to do that. And there's two, two last things while I have you, if you don't, if you'll indulge us, I know, please. Are you going to Washington? Are you going to the, to the tariff oral argument?
- [55:19]
B
I am here as we speak a couple hours ago. I'll be in the courtroom in the U. S. Supreme Court hearing room tomorrow to witness the argument and be supportive of the solicitor general from Oregon arguing the case on behalf of the states. And, and you know, I heard you talking earlier. We'll get a good sense. But the first few questions and comments from the judges where this is headed. Oh yeah, but every court, and there's been three of them, have decided in our favor and I think the U. S. Supreme Court should as well.
- [55:48]
A
I'm glad you're there and maybe I'll, I'll, I'll try to get you on afterwards to get some initial reaction to the couple hour oral argument. I'm sure this is going to be. We're at a live stream at Illegal AF and I'll do commentary and some hosting there. But look for me it's relatively simple. If every tool in their toolbox, and I'm talking about the right wing of the Supreme Court, should lead inexorably to striking down the tariffs if you start with statutory construction, or as Amy Coney Barrett said in her book, if you're doing statutory construction, read the statute. Read the statute. Read the statute. Okay, let's read the, the International Emergency Economic Procedures act. Aipa, let's read it. Where is the word tariff? There is not. Or, or as the court, you were involved, or as the court of International Trade said, this is a tariff against almost every country indefinitely on every good. Where is that? In congressional intent in giving up their Article 1 power. And so that's one statutory construction. It's easy. Read the words on the page and tell me where it says he can tariff the way he's tariffed, not on an emergency basis. Also, that's 1, 2. Let's use originalism and textualism. Let's look through Amber at the Constitution and try to divine what the, what the, what the founding Fathers said. Okay, if you use that and you go through, as all the constitutional scholars who have written amicus briefs have said, and you start with Article 1, the power is solely in the branch, in the congressional branch. So that's a, that should be a win. And then finally the made up doctrine of major questions which they've come up with in the Roberts court, which is where, if, if this is such a big thing, Congress would not have left it to implication or. All right, or, or reading between the lines, they would say it expressly and they'd answer the major question in a, in an affirmative way. So where is that? So, so under any of those tools that they've established, this should, they should make short work of this tariff scheme. Don't you agree?
- [58:01]
B
Yes, 100% case tomorrow, Michael.
- [58:04]
A
But what will they do?
- [58:05]
B
You got it down. I think that's what they'll find. You know, I, I think that the, the statutory language, the clear and unambiguous language of iipa. The, you know, the, the textual argument, the historical precedent or lack thereof of IIPA ever being used for, to impose tariffs. You know, it just goes back to, you know, just a, a few logical connections. Congress, under Article 1, has the power to tax tariffs or taxes. In order for the president to be able to impose tariffs, he needs to have a clear delegation of authority. IPA is the authority he relies on. It doesn't once mention tariffs in it, as you mentioned, over the 50 years, nearly 50 years of its existence as a federal law. It's never been relied on by any president to impose a tariff. And Congress doesn't hide elephants in mouse holes. There's not some secret tariff authority in there where they never mention it. It's never used before, it doesn't authorize tariffs. Clear and simple. That's why three courts have found it. So I think if the justices hew to the law and the facts, as is their job, as they should, this will be a victory for, for the states who are arguing against these tariffs. And look, Trump has gotten very active in this space. He was going to come in person.
- [59:24]
A
Is he not coming any longer? Is that, I know Beston's coming.
- [59:28]
B
I think just yesterday there was news broke that he's not coming. But, but he's, but he's sending messages, you know, to the justices through his, his comments and saying this could be, this is the most U.S. most important U.S. supreme Court in his decision in the history of the United States. It's going to completely undermine our safety, our security, our, our ability to have the foreign policy that we want. He's really trying to raise the stakes. And I think Americans would say we were doing just fine before these tariffs. Costs were lower, economic harm was less. So, you know, please strike these tariffs down and give us some relief. And, you know, businesses have filed the amicus briefs here talking about the devastation that they are experiencing with these, with these reckless tariffs that are hurting our economy. So I think the U.S. supreme Court.
- [60:15]
A
Will.
- [60:17]
B
Decide the way you are saying it is very strong textually and statutorily.
- [60:23]
A
Love to have you back to talk about that. And also, and I don't want to cram it in, there's going to be a big decision on a permanent injunction by Friday with Judge Immergut in Oregon, which you're involved with as well. Love to have you come back and brief our audience about the results of that. Such a special night on election night in America. MSNBC is already calling Virginia for the Democrat Spanberger as governor. New Jersey, I'm sure is going to go blue as well. Prop 50 and all of that. And I'm so glad our audience got to hear from you directly here on the Intersection. We're going to turn it over to the Midas Touch election night coverage. Thank everybody here for supporting us on the Intersection and Legal af. And thank you, Attorney General Rod Ponto.
- [61:04]
B
Honored to be with you as always. Michael, thank you.
- [61:08]
A
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