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- [00:00]
Tony Hawk
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- [00:31]
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- [01:28]
Michael Popak
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- [01:56]
Experian Representative
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- [02:32]
Michael Popak
Well, it looks like Eugene Carroll is going to be on the receiving end of another victory at the appellate court level. This her second in the last two weeks against Donald Trump. That's E. Jean Carroll, 3 Donald Trump 0. About his sexually abusing her and defaming her not once by but twice. Though that was the find of two separate federal juries in New York. Donald Trump didn't like it. Donald Trump ran to the appellate court two weeks ago to argue that the United States of America should intervene in the case because he was in the course and scope of his duties and therefore he's not liable for the judgment. And the three judge panel, Judge Merriman, Judge, Judge Chen and Judge Khan all said, you're wrong. So just two weeks ago they said, the United States of America is not substituting into this case. What else you got? And Trump said, I want to argue presidential immunity. And the 2nd Circuit said again, you already argued presidential immunity two years ago. We're here on the Midas Touch Network and on Legal af. This is not a broken record. This is yet another win for E. Jean Carroll. I'm diving into right now. I'm Michael Popak. All right, let's dive in. So two weeks ago, oral arguments in front of the same three judge panel. The argument there for Donald Trump was the United States of America should be allowed to substitute in on a motion to replace me individually, which is a first step in a two step process. After if that was approved, then he would argue there's sovereign immunity and United States isn't going to pay the 83 and a half million dollars that was rejected. We did a full report on it. We had the oral argument up on Legal AF, the YouTube channel. Fast forward to oral argument just in the last 48 hours, one that Donald Trump wanted to avoid. He files a motion to stay and delay, which is rejected. Doesn't want to argue the oral argument until he has time to appeal. The refusal of the Second Circuit, same three judge panel to grant his motion for the US to intervene. They say no, we're having the oral argument. All right, so we go forward, the oral argument. This guy Justin Smith shows up for Donald Trump. Robbie Kaplan, who's been on the Midas Dutch network and on Legal AF before, she's representing Eugene Carroll. The main argument for Justin Smith is that the June 2024 decision by the United States Supreme Court giving Donald Trump immunity from certain types of suits is a intervening factor that the 2nd Circuit should be looking at and, and should base their decision on that Donald Trump has presidential immunity that can't be waived. Second Circuit said you already raised presidential immunity. Alina Haba raised it two years ago. And we found waiver. In other words, immunity is Something that can be waived. And because Donald Trump continued in the litigation for almost 18 months in federal court and never raised presidential immunity. Never raised. Well, I'm immune because even though I defamed her in the Rose Garden, I said she's ugly. I said, I would never have sex with that person. I said, she's insane and I don't know what she's talking about. Which was proven to a jury that that was defamation. In a case where Donald Trump testified, his argument is, I would have been stronger on, on bringing up the presidential immunity if I knew the Supreme Court one day was going to give me that presidential immunity decision. How about that? And the judges were, like, completely skeptical. Like, immunity is something you can waive. You can't wait around several years to see if you get a better decision. And even when you look close closely at that decision by the United States Supreme Court that we hate, the 6 to 3 decision giving Donald Trump effectively immunity for most things. If there's still categories of things that even the federal, the right wing of the Supreme Court believes is not covered by immunity, you know, if it is a private act about a private affair, a private conduct, this Supreme Court says he doesn't have immunity. If it's core constitutional function of a president, it's going to get absolute immunity. If it, if it has to do with his job duties stretched to their outer boundaries, he's going to get immunity. But if it falls into the bucket of private acts, like he sexually abused the woman in a dressing room before he was president and then denied it while he was president, that doesn't fall within even the outer boundaries of his job description. This case has already been litigated about his job duties and the outer boundaries of it. So I don't see how the supreme court decision in 2024 helps the argument. And the supreme and the Second Circuit panel looked the Trump lawyer in the eye and said, you lost on this issue already. Waiver, you have to raise the issue. He's arguing that it's presidential immunity can never be waived. Alita Haba raised that exact issue at the Second Circuit two years ago, and she was shot down by another panel. So we're just beating a dead horse now. The ruling hasn't come out yet, but it's going to. So what do we have so far? He's tried to overturn the judgment. And this is all in the last 30 days, tried to overturn the judgment of or the verdict of the jury and the judgment of the judge. Judge Kaplan, about the first case, the $5.5 million first case that went forward, that's about the sexual abuse that was proven in court in a Bergdorf Goodman department store across the street from Trump Tower and his defamation before he was sorry after he was president because he kept defaming her. The second case, and it was tried second was about the def, the sexual abuse was already presumed because it was proven by the first jury. It was about his defamation after he was president. Conduct before, defamation after his argument is, well, the press was asking him questions. He had to defend himself because the presidency demanded it. Well, that's not how presidential core function or even stretch to its outer boundaries work. So let's cut to the chase. Here's what's going to happen. This appellate panel, which is the same appellate panel that just ruled against Donald Trump on a related matter, not allowing the United States to substitute in and take out the judgment, if you will, is going to rule. Judge Merriman, Judge Chen and Judge Kahn are going to rule that Donald Trump waived his presidential immunity. And the fact that the Supreme Court entered some other immunity decision later on doesn't matter. Donald Trump will then try to take both of these issues up to the United States Supreme Court. It's about a civil matter about a sexual abuse and large civil judgments. I'm not sure even this United States Supreme Court bails out Donald Trump related to that, but it will probably be, I don't see this as an emergency application. The Department of Justice is not in the case. It's Donald Trump's private lawyers. I think it'll be a regular writ of certiorari application to the United States Supreme Court, combining both of these cases up and trying to get the court's attention. The court will then over the summer, probably later in August, decide whether they find it interesting and can put it on the docket for the new term that starts the first Monday in October. And then we'll continue to, and we'll continue to report on it. What happens in the meantime? Does she get her money? No. What happens? Well, he has a bond posted for the 83 and a half million dollars that's running with interest. He's got a cash bond posted for the five and a half million dollars. So she's, she's not going to be injured, although she doesn't get the money. But she's, she's one step closer to getting the money. With now the third decision by the 2nd Circuit against Trump and in her favor, all that's left now is whether the Supreme Court is even going to take up the appeal. They don't have to take up the appeal. First stop on the train is Justice Sotomayor, but with a writ of certiorari, the full nine. And then they'll see if there's four people interested in taking the appeal and five people to give him relief. Not so sure about that yet. So that we have to go through that last turn of the wheel and if he loses at the United States Supreme Court, where they don't even take the appeal on either judgment or both judgments, then she can cash in the judgments against the bond. He has 30 days to pay. If he doesn't pay, she knocks on the door of the bonding company or in the case of the cash bond deposited with the clerk of the court to the clerk of the court. And she will get paid in 2025 or more likely, in sometime in 2026. We'll cover it here on the Midas Dutch Network and on Legal af. I'm Michael Popak. Can't get your fill of Legal af. Me neither. That's why we formed the Legal AF Substack. Every time we mention something in a hot take, whether it's a court filing or a oral argument, come over to the substack. You'll find the court filing and the oral argument there, including a daily roundup that I do called Wait for it Morning af. What else? All the other contributors from Legal AO are there as well. We got some new reporting, we got interviews, we got AD free versions of the podcast and hot takes where Legal AF on Substack come over now to free subscribe.