Trump DOJ Shredded in Court by Pissed Off Judge

Summary

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Legal AF by MeidasTouch Network

Episode: "Trump DOJ Shredded in Court by Pissed Off Judge"

Date: November 24, 2025
Hosts: Michael Popok (primary speaker), part of the MeidasTouch Network team

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Overview

This episode zeroes in on explosive developments in a high-profile immigration and civil rights case involving Kilmer Abrego Garcia—a man entangled in Trump-era prosecutorial actions. Host Michael Popok breaks down a pivotal evidentiary hearing before Maryland federal Judge Zinnis, who openly challenged the Department of Justice's credibility, expressed outrage at apparent government misconduct, and indicated she may fashion an extraordinary remedy for the abuses suffered by Abrego Garcia. The analysis provides sharp legal insight and paints a damning picture of the government’s case, while forecasting possible bold action by the court.

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Key Discussion Points & Legal Analysis

1. The Backstory: Abrego Garcia's Legal Ordeal

• Kilmer Abrego Garcia: Labeled the "poster child for Donald Trump's torture campaign without due process against migrants."
• Victim of removal and detention under orders heavily criticized for lack of legal process.
• Detained for months in a Virginia ICE facility, after being the subject of a complicated web of criminal and civil cases.
• Criminal prosecution in Tennessee: Host Michael Popok describes it as "fabricated" and labels it "vindictive prosecution" ([02:23]).
• Willingness to relocate to Costa Rica: Abrego Garcia, a Spanish speaker with family nearby, wanted to go there, only to be refused and slated for removal to Liberia instead—a move characterized by Popok as punitive retaliation.

2. The Explosive Hearing Before Judge Zinnis

Department of Justice Testimony Deemed Worthless

• Key Takeaway: Judge Zinnis gave zero credence to the testimonies of government witnesses, especially John Cantu (ICE head of removal operations).
  • "She didn't believe any of the witnesses. She said out loud, they're effectively, they are worth zero to her." ([01:49])
  • Cantu had “never read the sworn declaration in writing that was filed in her courtroom”; lacked personal knowledge across critical areas ([04:52]).
• Judge labeled DoJ’s documentation as an “empty word salad declaration” ([10:27]).

Procedural Bombshell: No Final Removal Order

• Judge Zinnis focused on the absence of any final removal order from an immigration judge, a requirement for continued detention and deportation ([05:51]).
  • "If there's no final order, he's not going anywhere." ([01:49])
• Even government attorneys conceded they couldn’t produce the required order.

Retaliation Concerns & Government Motives

• Retaliatory use of prosecution and removal powers:
  • Quotes Abrego Garcia’s defense counsel: “The timeline suggests a pattern. When the government received orders it disliked ... it initiated a criminal prosecution in retaliation. And when it received orders it disliked ... it initiated third country removal efforts in retaliation.” ([09:13])
• Judge Zinnis called the government's story “so odd” and openly expressed skepticism at their reasons for preferring Liberia over Costa Rica ([10:27]).
• Liberia’s own ambiguous offer—“temporarily” accepting Abrego Garcia—adds further legal murkiness.

3. The Judge’s Possible Next Moves

• Popok argues for Judge Zinnis not only to halt removal but to grant asylum directly under her equitable federal powers as a remedy for Trump-era abuses.

  • "I think Judge Zinnis should grant him under her equitable powers, the asylum for the abuse that was heaped on him by the Trump administration." ([02:46])
  • “Let him walk out the front door and reunite with his family. That’s what should happen.” ([11:49])

• Prognosis for Appeals:

  • Popok forecasts that the government would likely appeal such a bold order but recounts that Judge Zinnis has already been twice affirmed by the Fourth Circuit and 9-0 by the U.S. Supreme Court in this very matter ([12:34]).
  • He asserts: “My odds and my bet is with Judge Zinnis, not with the Department of Justice, who in her mind presented word salad witnesses with zero credibility or knowledge and were a big zilch for her in terms of trying to decide this case.” ([13:05])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On DoJ Witnesses:
  • "[Judge Zinnis] said out loud, they're effectively, they are worth zero to her..." ([01:49])
• On the lack of final order:
  • “If there's no final order, he's not going anywhere.” ([01:49])
• On government’s reasoning for Liberia:
  • "That's not good enough for Judge Zinnis. She said the whole thing doesn't make any sense. The whole timeline doesn't make any sense. And the witnesses for the Department of Justice aren't helping her get to the bottom of it. And that's pissing her off." ([05:41])
• On possible judicial remedy:
  • "I think Judge Zinnis should grant him under her equitable powers, the asylum for the abuse that was heaped on him by the Trump administration." ([02:46])
  • “Let him walk out the front door and reunite with his family. That’s what should happen.” ([11:49])
• On Judge Zinnis’ track record:
  • "Judge Zinnis has been right every time. She got upheld twice by the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals...and she was affirmed 9-0 by the United States Supreme Court already in this case." ([12:34])
• On the burden shifting to the government:
  • "...the burden has shifted already to the government to prove by at least a preponderance of the evidence that their decision making around sending him to Liberia instead of Costa Rica...is legitimate and in good faith." ([13:25])

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Important Timestamps

• 01:47 — Case introduction and Judge Zinnis' reaction to DoJ testimony
• 04:52 — Dissection of government witnesses' lack of knowledge
• 05:41 — Judge Zinnis’ open frustration and skepticism
• 09:13 — Defense allegations of retaliatory prosecution and removal
• 10:27 — Judge characterizes DoJ’s statements as “empty word salad declaration”
• 11:49 — Host’s argument for judicial asylum as remedy
• 12:34 — Track record of Judge Zinnis and prospect of appeals
• 13:25 — Burden of proof now lies with government

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Flow and Tone

The episode is marked by Michael Popok’s pointed, often impassioned legal commentary. He uses strong, direct language that frames the conduct of the Trump DOJ as abusive, retaliatory, and lacking in basic procedural fairness. Judge Zinnis is portrayed as no-nonsense, skeptical, and driven by a sense of justice—a tone that keeps the legal analysis both lively and accessible.

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Summary

This "Legal AF" episode unpacks the dramatic unraveling of the Trump DOJ’s case against Kilmer Abrego Garcia before a critical federal judge. With the government’s case falling apart, the judge appears poised to issue a bold remedy—possibly granting asylum outright as punishment for documented past abuses. The analysis, rooted in both legal rigor and righteous indignation, frames Judge Zinnis as a bulwark against executive overreach and spotlights both the legal deficiencies and human cost of Trump-era immigration tactics. Popok leaves listeners with the sense that justice—after years of struggle—may finally be served in this case.

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Transcript

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Her story Kilmer Abrego Garcia, the poster child for Donald Trump's torture campaign without due process against migrants and those that had an order to remain in the United States, is one step closer to being released from ICE detention in Virginia and or being granted asylum or at least being sent to the country of his choice, Costa Rica, because of testimony in an evidentiary hearing before Judge Zitis in Maryland, she wasn't pleased with any aspect of the Department of Justice testimony. She didn't believe any of the witnesses. She said out loud, they're effectively, they are worth zero to her. And she's focused on the fact that there appears to be no final order entered by an immigration judge six years ago, a final order of removal. And if there's no final order of removal, then the administrative process has not been exhausted and he's not going anywhere. I've always said I thought Judge Zinnis, in order to penalize the Department of Justice for prosecutorial abuse, for sending him to the torture prisons of El Salvador, for then tormenting and torturing his family and Americans by trolling them with he'll never be brought back. And having the president of El Salvador say he'll never bring him back. And only after the Supreme Court 90 in the middle of the night ordered him to be returned, and only after they trumped up a phony criminal case against him in Tennessee did they finally return him. And he's still in ICE custody. I've always said that the remedy for that due process violation, which is being handled by Judge Zinnis, is to grant him asylum and let him live with his American wife and his American children in Maryland, where he was for the last six or eight years. You know, under an order of non removal to El Salvador. If there's no or final order, he's not going anywhere. But I think it should go one step further. I think Judge Zinnis should grant him under her equitable powers, the asylum for the abuse that was heaped on him by the Trump administration. I'll talk about this particular hearing that happened, an evidentiary hearing that happened. And what I think the results are going to be here on the Midas Touch Network and on Legal afm, Michael Popak. All right, Abrego Garcia has been sitting in a Virginia ICE detention center for a couple of months. He's the subject of a criminal case in Tennessee that was fabricated, I believe, by the Trump administration that's going to go to trial maybe sometime in the first quarter of 2026. But there's a judge there, Judge Crenshaw, that's deciding whether that case should be dismissed for vindictive prosecution. And then we, they, we also the parallel case in front of Judge Zinnis is a case brought by Abrego Garcia against Kristi Noem and the Department of Justice and the Trump administration for civil rights and due process violations. That's what she's responsible for. Now, he has been sitting in a Virginia ICE detention center while this judge makes her final decision he wanted. And he said he's willing to go to Costa Rica, Spanish speaking country just off the coast of the United States, where his family can visit him or maybe even relocate. But because he refused to plead guilty to human trafficking charges in Tennessee, they refused to give him Costa Rica, the Department of justice and Homeland Security. And instead they made arrangements to send him 3,000 miles away to Liberia, an African country. And the judge is not happy about that. And so she had everybody in. First of all, she said, the prime witness, there were three of them for the government in this case, the head of a, the head of the ice removal and detention who came before him, John Cantu, who filed a sworn statement under oath. She said his testimony was effectively zero in her mind, that he'd never read the sworn declaration in writing that was filed in her courtroom, that he didn't have any personal knowledge of the discussions between the State Department and Liberia, that he didn't have any personal knowledge of the decision making between the State Department and Costa Rica. He doesn't know why Costa Rica is no longer on the table. He doesn't know why the State Department and the Trump administration pulled Costa Rica away from Abrego Garcia and his family. We know why. The judge knows why. It's because he refused to plead guilty to fabricated charges of human trafficking. And they're trying to punish him and make an example. The best that Drew Ensign, the lawyer for the Department of Justice, could say is that he believes Kristi Noem made a decision, that it's a preference, it's a preferential reason that the Trump administration wants to send him to Africa. That's not good enough for Judge Zinnis. She said the whole thing doesn't make any sense. The whole timeline doesn't make any sense. And the witnesses for the Department of Justice aren't helping her get to the bottom of it. And that's pissing her off. That last part was my own editorial. Did you know the liver is the second largest organ in your body? It's responsible for over 500 functions. But for some reason, liver health doesn't always get the attention it deserves. Over 30% of Americans have a sluggish liver, a problem that often goes undetected until the very last minute. Dose is on a mission to educate us all on why it's so important to maintain your liver health and has created an incredible product to help you do just that. I mean, I found a clinically supportive, potent and effective solution and I can't wait to share it with you. Dose for your Liver was formulated to cleanse your liver of unwanted elements aid digestion. 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That's D O S E D A I L Y co slash Legalif for 30% off your first month subscription. She also focused like a laser on the lack of a final order from an immigration judge from six or seven years ago. See, he had an order of non removal in his back pocket. That's why every court, including the United States Supreme Court that's looked at it, said he was illegally sent without due process to to the tortured prisons of El Salvador where upon arrival he was tortured along with 200 other people. He she said no final order. So the administrative process is still ongoing and even the government had a concede that there's no final order. And so the defense lawyers jumped up and down and said no final order. How can you remove him? So if there's no final order of removal, See, he had an order of removal against him and also one that said he couldn't be removed to El Salvador. But it wasn't apparently in final because the administrative law judge back then either made a procedural error or just forgot or closed the file. Closed the door. But that's to Abrego Garcia's advantage. And in fact, the judge is also concerned with the retaliatory nature of him being shipped to Liberia, she said. Or as the attorneys for Abrego Garcia said, the timeline suggests a pattern. When the government received orders it disliked in Abrego Garcia civil case challenging his unlawful removal to El Salvador, it initiated a criminal prosecution and retaliation. And when it received orders it disliked in Abrego Garcia's criminal case, it initiated third country removal efforts in retaliation. The judge said out loud in the hearing. It is so odd to me, she said. It's so odd. And that's being polite. Judge Zenith said, citing the, quote, empty word salad declaration she got from this guy Cantu, who's the head of removal operations for ice, about the Trump administration's lack of willingness to let Abrego Garcia go to Costa Rica. The lawyers for Abrego Garcia reminded the judge that there's no evidence that Costa Rica is unwilling to take the client. And then there's another problem, because Liberia has said in its own press release that they're willing for humanitarian purposes to take Abrego Garcia temporarily. And the lawyers said, what does that mean? What does the temporary mean? A day, a week, a month, a year, two years? And then what happens? So then they release him, the Trump administration or the next administration sends him to another torture chamber. But again, I think the backdrop to all of this is that judge, Judge Zinnis should, as part of her equitable powers and to punish the Trump administration for an abuse of power and prosecutorial misconduct and retaliation, should grant him asylum. Just grant him asylum. Let him walk out the front door and reunite with his family. That's what should happen. And I don't see that as a VI under the circumstances. I don't see that as a violation of the Immigration act or any other immigration law. She can cross over as a federal judge and fashion a remedy. And if the government doesn't like it, they can go take their appeal to the 4th Circuit and then to the United States Supreme Court. Let's get to the United States Supreme Court, where this case is obviously headed with the record that's been developed by Judge Zinnis. And let me remind the Trumpers out there, Judge Zinnis has been right every time. She got upheld twice by the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals for her decision making around getting Abrego Garcia back to the United States and her orders around that. Two different Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals rulings, and she was affirmed 9, 0 by the United States Supreme Court already in this case. So my odds and my, my bet is with Judge Zinnis, not with the Department of Justice, who in her mind presented word salad witnesses with zero credibility or knowledge and were a big zilch for her in terms of trying to decide this case. And the burden is on them ultimately, you know, it's not the burden on the defense at this point. I think the burden has shifted already to the government to prove by at least a preponderance of the evidence that their decision making around sending him to Liberia instead of Costa Rica, where he's already declared he's willing to go, is legitimate and in good faith. I think the judge should do one better. She should say, you don't have to go to Costa Rica either. I'm granting you asylum. Bang the gavel and walk out and let the appeals fly. We'll continue to follow it right here on the Midas Touch Network and on Legal AF. Come over to Legal AF, the YouTube channel. Hit the Free subscribe button. Help us continue our march to get to 1 million subscribers before the holidays. Till my next report, I'm Michael Popar. Can't get your fill of Legal af. Me neither. That's why we formed the Legal AF Substack. Every time we mention something in a hot take, whether it's a court filing or a oral argument, come over to the substack. You'll find the court filing and the oral argument there. Including including a daily roundup that I do called Wait for It Morning af. What else? All the other contributors from Legal AOFF are there as well. We got some new reporting, we got interviews, we got ad free versions of the podcast and hot takes where Legal AF on substack. Come over now to free subscribe.

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