Trump Folds Big Time as Courts Force His Hand

Summary

---

Legal AF: "Trump Folds Big Time as Courts Force His Hand"

Podcast: Legal AF by MeidasTouch
Date: November 8, 2025
Hosts: Michael Popok (national trial lawyer strategist), Ben Meiselas, Karen Friedman Agnifilo
Special Guests: Sky Perryman (Democracy Forward), Governor Josh Shapiro (PA)

Overview

This episode centers on the swift legal battle surrounding the Trump administration's initial refusal to fund SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program) anti-hunger benefits and the subsequent court orders that forced Trump’s hand. Michael Popok offers legal context and interviews key participants, dissecting the administration's maneuvers, the coalition that secured a legal victory for SNAP recipients, and the broader repercussions for law, politics, and public welfare.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump Administration Attempts to Withhold SNAP Payments

• Issue: Trump’s administration initially refused to fully fund the $8 billion monthly SNAP payment, vital for over 40 million Americans, despite a court order.
• Tactics: Administration claimed lack of funds and bureaucratic hurdles, sought an appellate court stay, and proposed partial payments.
• Judicial Response: Judge McConnell (Rhode Island) issued a unilateral, forceful order demanding the Executive Branch find the money and pay in full.

Quote:
"They caved in the face of a federal judge's order to fund fully the SNAP anti-hunger payments. By close of business today, it appears that $8 billion has been funded by the Trump administration..."
— Michael Popok, [02:46]

---

2. The Role of Legal Advocacy Groups & State AGs

• Democracy Forward & Sky Perryman: Led by public interest attorneys, they obtained temporary restraining orders against the federal government, compelling immediate payment.
• Coalition Tactics: 23 Democratic Attorneys General filed their own suit in parallel, creating multifront legal pressure.

Quote:
"Democrats, Democratic attorney generals, public interest groups like Democracy Forward ran into court and obtained... two separate temporary restraining orders from Judge McConnell." — Michael Popok, [03:59]

---

3. Explosive Court Proceedings and Federal Excuses

• Government’s Attempted Evasion: DOJ argued a single judge should not dictate executive funding; tried to claim administrative impossibility despite access to existing funds.
• Judge’s Clarity: The judge exposed the pretext, instructing the government to use the $23 million in the Child Nutrition Fund to top up SNAP for November.

Quotes & Moments:
"The federal government was lying to the judge. They had a pot of money to make the $8 billion SNAP payments..."
— Michael Popok, [04:51]

"...even today, we have never not had SNAP funded, even in government shutdowns... The court was clear last Friday... they had an obligation under the law to do so, and that their dragging their feet was unlawful."
— Sky Perryman, [06:17]

---

4. The Human Toll & Political Calculations

• Impact on Vulnerable Americans: Delays meant mothers couldn’t buy food, millions left without benefits; the show underscored how the political gamesmanship endangered real lives.
• Courtroom 'Fireworks': Judge McConnell strongly rebuked the administration for administrative filibusters that hid the actual funds available.

Quote:
"We should not have to sue the President of the United States to care about the most disadvantaged in our society." — Michael Popok, [08:09]

---

5. Governor Josh Shapiro’s Response and Emergency Action

• State-Level Mitigation: Explains steps Pennsylvania took: suing the administration, enacting an emergency declaration, securing interim funding, rallying donations.
• Ultimate Solution: Acknowledges state action couldn't substitute for federal responsibility; celebrates court victory ensuring SNAP is federally funded again.

Quote:
"Our neighbors who were hungry, one out of every eight of our neighbors relies on this funding, and it was taken away. And we went to work here in the Commonwealth to look out for our fellow neighbors... We sued the Trump administration to get those SNAP benefits flowing again." — Governor Josh Shapiro, [08:29]

"...we know that the only answer here is for the federal government to do the right thing and simply fund SNAP. That's why I sued them. And after I sued them. We won." — Governor Josh Shapiro, [10:55]

---

6. The Broader Political Blowback

• Election Impacts: The episode suggests the Trump administration’s handling of the issue contributed to Republican electoral losses.
• Host’s Editorial: Popok contrasts Trump’s lavish lifestyle and indifference with the struggles of ordinary Americans, tying it back to the dire need for competent governance and compassion.

Quote:
"That's the sound of crying babies and hungry seniors, courtesy of Donald Trump, who trolled them on Election Day by saying he wasn't going to make the SNAP payments even if ordered to do so because the Democrats needed to reopen the government..." — Michael Popok, [12:44]

---

Notable Quotes With Timestamps

• Michael Popok:
  "They caved in the face of a federal judge's order to fund fully the SNAP anti-hunger payments..." [02:46]
  "We should not have to sue the President of the United States to care about the most disadvantaged in our society." [08:09]

• Sky Perryman:
  "The court was clear... they had an obligation under the law to do so, and that their dragging their feet was unlawful." [06:46]
  "...it means that a mom that needs to go to the grocery store to put food in the cabinet for her kids can't do so for a period of days and weeks. There's truly just no way of tolerating that." [07:09]

• Governor Josh Shapiro:
  "We sued the Trump administration to get those SNAP benefits flowing again... And after I sued them, we won."[10:55]

---

Major Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:46] - Michael Popok details Trump administration’s capitulation and the court’s role.
• [06:17] - Sky Perryman discusses origins of the crisis and the legal battle in detail.
• [08:29] - Governor Josh Shapiro on Pennsylvania’s response and court victory.
• [11:22] - Popok breaks down the multi-pronged legal strategy and judicial rebukes.
• [12:44] - Popok editorializes on the contrast between political priorities and the needs of ordinary people.

---

Conclusion

This episode of Legal AF powerfully chronicles a high-profile showdown between the Trump administration and advocates for the hungry, highlighting the essential role of court intervention in forcing the executive branch to honor its obligations to citizens. By weaving legal analysis with on-the-ground activism and political context, the episode underscores the stakes of government action — and inaction — for millions of Americans. The hosts remind the audience that without vigilance and advocacy, essential lifelines like SNAP can become pawns in larger political games, making robust legal oversight and civic engagement more critical than ever.

Transcript

[MIDI Health Narrator]

This podcast is supported by MIDI Health. Are you in midlife feeling dismissed, unheard or just plain tired of the old health care system? You're not alone. For too long, women's serious midlife health issues have been trivialized, ignored and met with a just deal with it attitude. Many of us have been made to feel ashamed or forgotten. In fact, even today, 75% of women seeking care for menopause and perimenopause issues are left entirely untreated. But here's the powerful truth. It's time for a change. It's time for miti. MITI is not just a healthcare provider. It's a women's telehealth clinic founded and supported by world class leaders in women's health. What sets MIDI apart? We are the only women's telehealth brand covered by major insurance companies, making high quality, expert care accessible and affordable for all women everywhere. Our clinicians provide one on one face to face consultations where they truly listen to your unique needs. We offer a full range of holistic, data driven solutions from hormonal therapies and weight loss protocols to lifestyle coaching and preventive health guidance. This isn't a one size fits all care. This is care uniquely tailored for you. At miti, you will join our patients who feel seen, heard and prioritized. You will find that our mission is clear to help all women thrive in midlife, giving them access to the health care they deserve. Because we believe midlife isn't the middle at all. It's just the beginning of your second act. Ready to feel your best and write your second act script? Visit joinmitty.com today to book your personalized insurance covered virtual visit. That's joinmitty.com MIDI the Care Women Deserve.

[Sarah]

Hey, this is Sarah. Look, I'm standing out front of a.m. p.m. Right now and well, you're sweet and all, but I found something more fulfilling, even kind of cheesy. But I like it. Sure you met some of my dietary needs, but they've just got it all. So farewell Oatmeal. So long you strange soggy Break up.

[AMPM Advertiser]

With bland breakfast and taste AMPM's bacon, egg and cheese biscuit made with K tree eggs, smoked bacon and melty cheese on a buttery biscuit. Am P M Too much good stuff.

[Mayra Amit]

A mochi moment from Mark who writes I just want to thank you for making GLP1s affordable. What would have been over $1,000 a month is just $99 a month with mo shouldn't be a barrier to healthy weight. Three months in and I have smaller jeans and a bigger wallet. You're the best. Thanks, Mark. I'm Mayra Amit, founder of Mochi Health. To find your mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com.

[Mochi Health Representative]

Mark is a Mochi member compensated for his story?

[Michael Popak]

Well, it looks like the Trump administration and Donald Trump do what they always do. They caved in the face of a federal judge's order to fund fully the SNAP anti hunger payments. By close of business today, it appears that $8 billion has been funded by the Trump administration despite them running to an appellate court to declare that a federal judge's order, Judge McConnell in Rhode island unilateral order to fund and to go find the money was somehow unconstitutional. They've actually funded and now states like Pennsylvania are telling SNAP recipients to expect money in their accounts, in their electronic credit cards if you will. Their electro cards will be fully funded with the allotment for them on average $350. Which makes the difference between going hunger, going hungry at night and not it will be funded apparently today despite the other actions that Donald Trump and his administration have taken of lawlessness to try to defy the judge's order. I'm glad to report after following the story for the last week that now people that have gone for too long without the most disadvantaged in our society, the below the poverty line, children and babies and elderly and veterans and the disabled, now money is flowing because Democrats, because Democratic attorney generals, because public interest groups like Democracy Forward ran into court and obtained an order and a series of orders, two separate temporary restraining orders from Judge McConnell. I cover it all right here on the Midas Touch Network and for legal AF on this fast moving story. They can't even get their story straight at the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice, they just filed a brief late last night, early today with the first department, with the first Circuit, sorry appellate court and said this is unprecedented for a unit a one federal judge unilaterally to order the executive branch to go find money. It turns out that the federal government was lying to the judge. They had a pot of money to make the $8 billion November SNAP anti hunger food stamp payments. They had $4.65 billion left in a fund. And they said, well we'll have to make partial payments and that'll take months to go figure out how to, how to pay 56% instead of 100%. The judge says, well then pay 100. And the government said we don't know where we will get the money from. And the judge said there's a child nutrition fund that has $23 million in it. You only need $3 million to fund this month. Go take it out of the three, take it out of the 23 million and top up the fund to the full $8 billion and make your payments. Then you won't have any administrative hurdles. You won't have any problems with states trying to figure out how to make partial payments. You won't have to create any tables and make the payment. So I had Sky Perryman, the founder of Democracy Forward, who brought this case on with me today, and, you know, her basic takeaway is that if they don't pay by the end of the day today, even if they filed their motion for a stay, if their stay is not granted by the appellate court, they're in violation. And they flirted with that disaster right until the very end. Here's a clip of me with my interview with Sky Perryman.

[Sky Perryman]

Yeah, so, I mean, we got here because the President is truly playing politics with people's lives. There's no other way around it. For days and weeks, he and administration officials claimed that they could not fund snap. We've actually never not had SNAP funded, even in government shutdowns. And the judge yesterday made that clear. They claimed that they just, their hands were tied. They couldn't do it. We had to take them to court. The court was clear last Friday that not only did the Trump administration have the legal authority to pay SNAP benefits, but that they had an obligation under the law to do so, and that they're dragging their feet was unlawful. That's what happened last Friday. On Monday, the Trump administration showed up to court and said it wanted to pay partial benefits, not full benefits. And as a result of that decision, it submitted its own documents that suggested that people in this country would have to wait weeks and in some cases, months for their SNAP benefits. So just to make sure that we understand what that means, it means that a mom that needs to go to the grocery store to put food in the cabinet for her kids can't do so for a period of days and weeks. There's just no way of. There's truly just no way of tolerating that. The court was clear in its first order that the administration needed to expeditiously resolve any issues so that people could get their SNAP benefits. They did not do so. And so yesterday we had fireworks in the court. We had a great team at Democracy Forward, and our co counsel with the lawyers committee in Rhode island were on the zoom hearing yesterday. And the court just had A lot of questions for the government, said that the government had done nothing to comply with the order from the prior week and enforced that order so that people will get their SNAP benefits, and then made some further findings to require that the government payments full benefits.

[Michael Popak]

We should not have to sue the President of the United States to care about the most disadvantaged in our society. Let me show you now a clip of one governor, Governor Josh Shapiro, who's going to be my guest with a new interview next week at a press conference talking about the SNAP payments and the win here for democracy.

[Governor Josh Shapiro]

Our neighbors who were hungry, one out of every eight of our neighbors relies on this funding, and it was taken away. And we went to work here in the Commonwealth to look out for our fellow neighbors. The first thing we did was we sued the Trump administration to get those SNAP benefits flowing again. The second thing I did, utilizing my authority as governor, was to sign an emergency declaration here in the Commonwealth, which I announced with Lori at Phil Abundance the other day. That allowed us to be able to free up an initial $5 million to be able to send to places like Share because we knew that more people were going to come banging on their doors seeking help. As a result of that emergency declaration, SHARE alone received about $740,000 in additional funding that allowed them to purchase more food already and get that food out to the people who are in need in our communities. In addition to that, I appeal to the better angels here in Pennsylvania and appealed to the goodness of our fellow Pennsylvanians and asked people to step up and make contributions to the Pennsylvania Emergency SNAP Fund. And I have to just take a moment and thank so many generous Pennsylvanians who have already donated more than $2 million. And every single cent of that $2 million has made its way to feeding Pennsylvania, and Feeding Pennsylvania has sent those dollars directly to places like Share and Fill Abundance and Weinberg and all of the other food pantries across Pennsylvania. So we are doing what we can, but we know that we can't possibly make up for all of the money the federal government has stopped. Why? Because SNAP each and every month totals $366 million. It's $366 million that ends up on people's SNAP cards that they can use when they go to the grocery store, what have you. So. So while we're so grateful to Share for stepping up and. And trying to fill that gap, we know that the only answer here is for the federal government to do the right thing and simply fund snap. That's why I sued them. And after I sued them. We won. And just yesterday, a court ruled that the federal government was required to pay out the floor full amount of benefits to snap. This happened yesterday afternoon. Now, the Trump administration, after getting that ruling, couldn't get their act together quick enough. But you know who did get their act together real quick? Secretary Arkush and the team at the Department of Human Services. What did they do? They immediately processed the batches of Pennsylvanians who were owed money on SNAP through our vendor that sends those federal dollars out and started to get that money flowing again.

[Michael Popak]

Now, two separate groups brought their lawsuits to federal court. The Democracy Forward group, representing church groups and other public interest groups, ran to Chief Judge McConnell, a group of 23 Democratic attorneys general, sort of a pincher move to place the Trump administration between a rock and a hard place. They filed theirs in Massachusetts with Judge Telwani. McConnell had the stronger of the temporary restraining orders. When that got violated, Democracy Forward and Sky Perryman ran back into court with her legion of lawyers and obtained an emergency order yesterday at 3:00 clock and a written order that we have up on legal AF substack in which the judge, Judge McConnell, said, you are playing with people's lives. There are 16 million children who will go hungry because you're not properly funding and you are pointing to administrative red tape of your own creation. Solve the problem. Take the money from the what we call section 32 funds which are created from customs receipts. Take it from the Children Nutrition Fund, which is overfunded, and make the November SNAP anti hunger payments and do it now. Now. We were worried when I interviewed sky earlier today, we were worried that they were going to let Friday come and go and let people go hungry. I mean, this is people that have opened the refrigerator. There's nothing inside. They spent their October allotment. This is about November. Can imagine if you only had $350 for a family of four to shop for the month, not the week, the month. And you have to make that last. And now we're, we're past almost the first week in November. You still haven't gotten it. That's the sound of crying babies and hungry seniors, courtesy of Donald Trump, who trolled them on Election Day by saying he wasn't going to make the SNAP payments even if ordered to do so because the Democrats needed to reopen the government. The Democrats are fighting for these same groups of underprivileged people to make sure they have health care. That's the fight for the shutdown. And again, Donald Trump throwing not only sand in the gears but salt in the eyes of Americans while he parties in Miami at some business conference today where he's trying to raise money for Trump Incorporated and had all sorts of people up on a stage bragging about this amazing economy that's crushing the hopes and dreams of normal Americans that aren't billionaires, while he parties at Mar a Lago during a Great Gatsby themed event at Halloween, as he builds a golden ballroom, as he flies on a plane we can't afford, as he spends hundreds of millions of dollars on golf trips, of taxpayer dollars, as he makes a marble bathroom for Abraham Lincoln, our poorest president, while people can't eat and are suffering in America. Is there any wonder why on election night it was a complete wipeout for the Republicans with flipping of people that had once voted for Donald Trump. Flipping back to blue. I'm glad you're here. Fast moving story. I wanted to give Judah. I wanted you to hear the update from me here on the Midas Touch Network. Join us on tomorrow for the Legal AF podcast on Saturday and of course Legal AF YouTube channel, which is going to hit a million subscribers in about a year because of you. And go find out if you're subscribed right now, hit the button. And then Legal AF Substack, of course, where that's what keeps us on the air. That's what pays for our reporting and our fair commentary. Become a Legal AF Substack member and try to swing a paid membership for $6.77 a month. We appreciate you and for all that you do for us. So till my next report, I'm Michael Popak.

[Legal AF Host]

Can't get your fill of Legal af?

[Michael Popak]

Me neither.

[Legal AF Host]

That's why we formed the Legal AF Substack. Every time we mention something in a hot take, whether it's a court filing or a oral argument, come over to the substack.

[Michael Popak]

You'll find the court filing and the.

[Legal AF Host]

Oral argument there, including a daily roundup that I do called Wait for it Morning af.

[Michael Popak]

What else?

[Legal AF Host]

All the other contributors from Legal AOFF.

[Michael Popak]

Are there as well.

[Legal AF Host]

We got some new reporting, we got interviews, we got ad free versions of the podcast and hot takes where legal af on substack come over now to free subscribe.

[TikTok Advertiser]

Join TikTok today and get your $20 no minimum spend voucher. Just download TikTok and search for get tick g e t T I k Redeem your voucher and start shopping now only for new user.

[Mochi Health Representative]

This holiday. Discover meaningful gifts for everyone on your list at K Not sure where to start. Our jewelry experts are here to help you find or create the perfect gift in store or online. Book your appointment today and unwrap love this season only at Kay.