Trump Gets Cornered by Judge Who Demands Depositions

Summary

Legal AF by MeidasTouch: Summary of Episode - "Trump Gets Cornered by Judge Who Demands Depositions"

Release Date: February 28, 2025

Hosts:

• Ben Meiselas, Founder and Civil Rights Lawyer, MeidasTouch Network
• Michael Popak, National Trial Lawyer Strategist
• Karen Friedman Agnifilo, Former Chief Assistant District Attorney, Manhattan DA's Office

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1. Introduction to the AFL-CIO vs. Trump Administration Lawsuit

In this episode of Legal AF, host Michael Popak delves into the ongoing legal battle initiated by the AFL-CIO against various facets of the Trump administration, including the enigmatic entity known as DOGE (Department of Government Efficiency). The lawsuit centers around allegations of privacy invasions, with the AFL-CIO challenging the administration's handling of personal, private, and confidential information of Americans.

Key Discussion Points:

• Scope of the Lawsuit: The AFL-CIO has expanded its lawsuit beyond the Department of Labor to include entities like Health and Human Services, the Consumer Protection Financial Bureau, among others.
• Allegations: The administration is accused of overstepping its authority, leading to unauthorized access and misuse of sensitive information.

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2. Judge Bates' Critical Rulings

Judge Bates, presiding in the District of Columbia, has become a pivotal figure in this legal saga. Initially, he denied the AFL-CIO's temporary restraining orders (TRO) not once, but twice, questioning the standing and ability of the plaintiffs to prosecute the orders effectively.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Popak ([01:12]): "Judge Bates in the District of Columbia has had enough."
• Judge Bates ([01:22]): "This organization is so opaque, only a deposition under oath... will maybe get to the bottom of it."

Significant Rulings:

• Denial of TROs: Despite the AFL-CIO's efforts, Judge Bates initially rejected their requests, citing insufficient standing.
• Approval of Expedited Discovery: Ultimately, Judge Bates granted the AFL-CIO's motion for expedited discovery, allowing for thorough depositions to uncover the truth behind DOGE's operations.

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3. The Importance of the Discovery Process

Discovery is a fundamental phase in legal proceedings, involving the exchange of pertinent information between parties to build or defend a case. In this instance, the AFL-CIO's request for expedited discovery is crucial to demonstrate irreparable harm caused by the administration's actions.

Detailed Insights:

• Purpose of Discovery: As Michael Popak explains, "Discovery is the exchange of information and documents at the beginning of a case that helps one side or the other develop their claims or their defenses."
• Judge Bates' Stance: He emphasized the necessity of discovery to "reveal information related to the preliminary injunction as opposed to the case as a whole."

Depositions Ordered:

• Scope: Four different depositions, totaling eight hours, targeting key DOGE employees across various departments.
• Objective: To extract under oath testimonies that clarify DOGE's structure, authority, and the extent of its operations.

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4. Implications for DOGE and the Trump Administration

The court's decision to mandate depositions marks a turning point in holding the Trump administration accountable. DOGE, previously shrouded in opacity, must now provide transparent and consistent testimonies under penalty of perjury.

Impact Highlights:

• Accountability: DOGE and associated administration officials can no longer rely on inconsistent narratives or plausible deniability.
• Legal Precedent: The obtained depositions will not only influence the current case but also serve as a reference in future legal challenges against the administration.

Notable Quotes:

• Michael Popak ([10:54]): "That's the takeaway. First time ever. DOGE is going to have to get their story straight..."
• Judge Bates ([11:16]): "It's time to start locking Doge and Musk into their positions..."

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5. Conclusion and Next Steps

As the episode wraps up, Michael Popak underscores the significance of this legal maneuver. The approval of expedited discovery by Judge Bates sets the stage for a more transparent examination of DOGE's role and the Trump administration's policies.

Future Developments:

• Preliminary Injunction Hearing: Scheduled within the next week or two, where the gathered depositions will play a critical role.
• Ongoing Coverage: The Legal AF team pledges to continue monitoring and reporting on the case's progression, providing listeners with in-depth analyses.

Closing Remarks: Michael reflects, "Sometimes you don't get what you want, you get what you need. And now we got what we need, which is our first set of depositions." This sentiment captures the essence of the episode's focus on perseverance and the pursuit of justice through the legal system.

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Stay Connected: For more detailed analyses and updates on this case and other legal-political intersections, subscribe to the Legal AF YouTube channel and follow Legal AF on your preferred podcast platforms. New full-length episodes drop every Wednesday and Sunday, with breaking legal news hits throughout the week.

Transcript

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[Michael Popak]

Of Elon Musk and the Trump administration playing fast and loose with the facts about what power Elon Musk does or doesn't have, what power Doge, the Department of Government Efficiency, does or doesn't have.

[Judge Bates]

Which documents, information, medical and financial and.

[Michael Popak]

Other personal, private confidential information of Americans.

[Judge Bates]

They are or are not looking at. Those days may be coming to an.

[Michael Popak]

End because at least one federal judge.

[Judge Bates]

Judge Bates in the District of Columbia, has had enough. And he's granting the request of the.

[Michael Popak]

AFL cio, one of the largest labor unions, who has sued various aspects of the Trump administration, including Doge, about the.

[Judge Bates]

Invasion of privacy that is going on as we speak.

[Michael Popak]

And since Doge and Trump and Musk can't get their story straight, and they're about as straight as a corkscrew when they tell the courts who's in charge.

[Judge Bates]

What are they doing? What's their method? What's their means?

[Michael Popak]

Judge Bates threw up his hands and says, this organization is so opaque, only a deposition under oath, a question and answer under oath for eight hours in length will maybe get to the bottom of it.

[Judge Bates]

And he so ordered it.

[Michael Popak]

I'm Michael Popak. You're on the Midas Touch Network in Legal af. Let's talk about this AFL CIO case that started out against the Department of Labor but now involves about five different departments, including Health and Human Services, the Consumer Protection, Financial Bureau, and all of that. And what happened now? It's a little bit surprising because Judge.

[Judge Bates]

Bates is actually one of the few.

[Michael Popak]

Judges that ruled against granting a temporary restraining order to stop Doge from accessing files and information that are personal to you and me in various places in various servers and computers, finding that the AFL CIO and the Congress of Industrial Organizations and other public interest group didn't have standing, didn't have the fundamental ability to prosecute a temporary restraining order.

[Judge Bates]

He denied the temporary restraining order not once but twice.

[Michael Popak]

Now look, there's 45 or so other preliminary injunctions and temporary restraining orders.

[Judge Bates]

But this was one that Judge Bates ended.

[Michael Popak]

And I thought, well, that's not a good sign. But the AFL CIO picked themselves up.

[Judge Bates]

Off the mat, filed an amended complaint and then argued that in order for.

[Michael Popak]

Them to go for their preliminary injunction, the next step in the process and.

[Judge Bates]

Prove to the court that they had standing and that they've been irreparably harmed.

[Michael Popak]

They need limited discovery. They need discovery and depositions to finally have somebody under oath tell the truth.

[Judge Bates]

I mean, there's been filings after filings in 12 different lawsuits involving Doge in.

[Michael Popak]

Which they've taken frankly, inconsistent positions because they really don't, they don't know what they're doing.

[Judge Bates]

One hand doesn't know what the other.

[Michael Popak]

Hand is doing and they intentionally don't.

[Judge Bates]

Want to know what the other hand.

[Michael Popak]

Is doing to give themselves plausible deniability. That's what it looked like. It looks like. So here's what the judge said in his order in a 16 page order. Here's what the judge said about the opaqueness of Doge, and that's putting it mildly.

[Judge Bates]

This is on page eight. That brings the court to plaintiff's purpose for requesting expedited discovery.

[Michael Popak]

Discovery is the exchange of information and.

[Judge Bates]

Documents at the beginning of a case that helps one side or the other develop their claims or their defenses. And sometimes to get over threshold issues.

[Michael Popak]

You have to have an initial round of limited discovery even while the judge decides whether there are claims that can survive a motion to dismiss.

[Judge Bates]

And that's the phase that we're in right now with this particular case. The judge continues, Judge Bates continues as stated. Plaintiffs seek, that's the AFL CIO seek expedited discovery to support their impending preliminary injunction motion.

[Michael Popak]

In other words, we need more data that only the other people have and under oath statements in order to support our motion. Judge and that's why we need limited discovery. But unlike in other cases in which.

[Judge Bates]

The court has denied motions for expedited.

[Michael Popak]

Discovery, plaintiff's purpose, the judge continues, is.

[Judge Bates]

To reveal information related to the preliminary injunction as opposed to the case as a whole.

[Michael Popak]

In other words, it's narrow about irreparable harm.

[Judge Bates]

One of the four factors of preliminary injunction. And that makes the judge feel comfortable.

[Michael Popak]

To grant the motion for preliminary for expedited discovery. Plaintiffs focus their discovery request on the dispositive preliminary injunction issue of irreparable harm that we've been harmed so terribly that money damages can't compensate us. And we have specific special injury gives US Standing allows us to prosecute the case and the preliminary injunction.

[Judge Bates]

The court continues. They explain, meaning the plaintiffs, that as elucidated through the litigation on their two.

[Michael Popak]

Temporary restraining order motions, the facts that.

[Judge Bates]

Bear on irreparable harm remain opaque.

[Michael Popak]

That means I've been doing this for the last three weeks and me, Judge, the person in a black robe, where it matters.

[Judge Bates]

I can't figure out Doge and neither can the plaintiffs. So we're going to use discovery to.

[Michael Popak]

Get through that opaqueness and try to get to more transparency. That's what happens in a discovery process.

[Judge Bates]

The court continues.

[Michael Popak]

These include this is what he wants to learn in these depositions.

[Judge Bates]

These include the structure of the USDs.

[Michael Popak]

That'S the US Doge Services, whatever that.

[Judge Bates]

Means, and the scope of its authority, which which the court has said are.

[Michael Popak]

Not only unclear on the current record, but also critical to deciding the question of whether USDS is an agency within.

[Judge Bates]

The meaning of the economy act of.

[Michael Popak]

1933 and thus whether its employees are.

[Judge Bates]

Permitted by the Privacy act to view individual information.

[Michael Popak]

Judge says I gotta get to the.

[Judge Bates]

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[Michael Popak]

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[Michael Popak]

As a factor, as a basis.

[Judge Bates]

He points to DOGE and the government's own inconsistent position taking in his courtroom. On page nine, the judge says another.

[Michael Popak]

Point is worth noting or mentioning.

[Judge Bates]

Plaintiffs seek discovery on these issues in.

[Michael Popak]

Part because Defendants Trump's side already put.

[Judge Bates]

Into the record some facts relevant to.

[Michael Popak]

The issue that need to be tested in the discovery process.

[Judge Bates]

The declarations.

[Michael Popak]

Those are sworn statements under oath, like affidavits. The declarations defendants filed with their opposition to plaintiffs TRO motions, all of which.

[Judge Bates]

Were prepared well after the challenged agency actions introduced before unknown information, some of.

[Michael Popak]

Which conflicted on how USDS DOGE is operating at the defendant agencies, from the.

[Judge Bates]

Number of the employees working at the.

[Michael Popak]

Defendant agencies to the training and agreements put in place for those employees, to the access those employees are given.

[Judge Bates]

And then they cite to a bunch.

[Michael Popak]

Of the declarations filed by the Trump administration. It would be strange to permit Defendants.

[Judge Bates]

Judge Bates continues to submit evidence that.

[Michael Popak]

Addresses critical factual issues and proceed to.

[Judge Bates]

Rule in a preliminary injunction motion without.

[Michael Popak]

Permitting plaintiffs to explore those factual issues through very limited discovery and therefore to allow the issues to be plumbed about irreparable harm. The Judge is ordering the following here's the breadth of the discovery request or here's the order related to it at the back here.

[Judge Bates]

Let me get to the order.

[Michael Popak]

Sorry about that. Plaintiff's motion for expedited discovery is granted.

[Judge Bates]

They're going to be able to take.

[Michael Popak]

Four different depositions for a total of eight hours. The judge specifies who within each organization have to give a deposition.

[Judge Bates]

For instance.

[Michael Popak]

I'll give you just for instance. Here Other reporting has indicated that Health and Human Services has three Doge employees. The Consumer Financial Protection Board has six members of DOGE labor, etcetera, etcetera. So eight hours in total of four different Doge employees. That information then becomes part of the record that the judge considers on the.

[Judge Bates]

Preliminary injunction hearing, which you will consider.

[Michael Popak]

In the next week or two. So that's the takeaway. First time ever. DOGE is going to have to get their story straight and are now going to be locked in not just for this case, but sworn testimony that can be used by other plaintiffs and other courts under oath testimony, penalty of perjury testimony. It's time to start locking Doge and.

[Judge Bates]

Musk into their positions and not let them flip flop and lie and claim plausible deniability because of different positions taken.

[Michael Popak]

In different cases in front of different judges. We need a clearinghouse for all of their lies. And it starts now with Judge Bates. Not the judge I thought, not the case I thought. But sometimes you don't get what you want, you get what you need. And now we got what we need, which is our first set of depositions.

[Judge Bates]

Under oath of Doge to explain their.

[Michael Popak]

Existence and to clear up the opaqueness of their structure. And we'll continue to follow up on that right here on the Midas Touch Network and on Legal af.

[Judge Bates]

You've come to the right place for.

[Michael Popak]

Things at the intersection of law and politics. Legal AF, the Midas Touch YouTube channel. Come over to Legal AF, the YouTube channel. Hit the free subscribe button there. I curate that channel for you. I do my hot takes here on the Midas Touch Network. And then of course, we've got our YouTube channel podcast, Legal AF on Wednesdays.

[Judge Bates]

And Saturday nights at 8:00pm Eastern Time.

[Michael Popak]

And then on podcast platforms of your choice. We're top 10 in the world in all genres. It's all because of you and we are humbled by it and appreciate you. Till my next reporting, I'm Michael Popeck.

[Midas Touch Network Representative]

In collaboration with the Midas Touch Network, we just launched the Legal AF YouTube channel. Help us build this pro democracy channel where I'll be curating the top stories. The intersection of law and Politics. Go to YouTube now and free subscribe at LegalAfmtn. That's @legalafmtn.

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