Trump Gets Extremely Desperate as He Faces His Fate

Summary

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Legal AF by MeidasTouch: Trump Gets Extremely Desperate as He Faces His Fate

Date: October 28, 2025
Hosts: Michael Popok, Ben Meiselas | Guest: Steve Bannon (clip)
Main Theme:
A deep dive into Donald Trump’s desperation as he leans into increasingly outlandish and legally dubious schemes to maintain political relevance—including floating the possibility of a third presidential term in direct violation of the 22nd Amendment. The episode analyzes the legal, political, and ethical implications of such rhetoric, the role of Trump allies like Steve Bannon, and the overwhelming rejection of these ideas by the American public.

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on Donald Trump’s public flirtation with seeking a third presidential term—despite the clear constitutional prohibition—and the dangerous legal and political maneuvering by him and his associates. The hosts dissect the underlying strategy, public reaction, and the potential damage to American democracy. Key clips from Steve Bannon are featured, spotlighting efforts to justify a possible constitutional end-run. The hosts repeatedly emphasize the importance of democratic engagement to block anti-democratic moves.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Desperate “Third Term” Talk

• Host Michael Popok opens by declaring Trump’s actions and rhetoric as “talking treason,” directly linking the third-term notion to attempts at subverting the Constitution (03:03).
• The scheme is characterized as both political trolling and a way to stave off political irrelevance as a “lame duck” (03:03–04:30).
• Quote:

  "It's treason. And any plan that Steve Bannon... or others around Donald Trump are proposing... in violation of the 22nd Amendment is nothing more than treason."
  — Michael Popok (03:21)

2. Bannon’s Brazen Constitutional Evasion

• The episode features a key clip from Steve Bannon’s interview with The Economist, in which he openly asserts, "Trump is going to be president 28... Trump will get a third term" (05:45).
• Bannon hints at various "plans" to circumvent the 22nd Amendment, floats religious justifications, and repeatedly downplays constitutional concerns (05:45–07:24).
• Quote:

  “Trump is a vehicle... of divine providence. He's an instrument... we need him for at least one more term. And he'll get that in 28."
  — Steve Bannon (06:08)

• Bannon attempts to reframe a constitutional crisis as an expression of “the will of the American people,” dismissing critics as alarmists (07:59).
• Quote:

  "The only way President Trump wins in 2028 and continues to stay in office is by the will of the American people."
  — Steve Bannon (07:59)

3. Legal Reality of the 22nd Amendment

• Popok clarifies constitutional limits: “No person shall be elected president more than twice. That’s it.” (08:17)
• Explains that the only possible loophole would be via a vice president assuming office, implying this would require “committing treason” by a hypothetical running mate who resigns in Trump’s favor (08:17–10:14).
• Quote:

  “What meat puppet are they going to get to do that? ... So you either have to lie to the American people and do an end run around the Constitution and defraud the American people, or you're committing treason."
  — Michael Popok (09:23)

4. Trump’s Delusional Self-Promotion and Denials

• Trump’s own response is played, where he oscillates between denying interest in a third term and bragging about “the best poll numbers ever,” claims of ending wars, and offering up JD Vance and Marco Rubio as examples of “good people” for 2028 (12:20–14:08).
• Trump’s remarks are meandering, contradictory, and detached from legal or political reality.
• Quote:

  "I have my best numbers ever. If you read it. Am I not ruling it out? You'll have to tell me. All I can tell you is that we have a great group of people, which they don't."
  — Donald Trump (14:05)

5. Political and Public Rejection of “Third Termism”

• Latest polling: “80% of America... do not want [Trump] running for a third term,” spanning both Democrats and Republicans (03:39, 14:08).
• Popok likens Trump’s current delusional confidence to “Adolf Hitler in the final hours... in the bunker” (11:28).
• Rapid growth in street protest numbers ("5 million hands off April, 7 million no kings June, 10 million no kings October") signals strong public backlash (14:40).

6. The Real Goal: Staying Relevant

• The hosts argue that Trump’s primary motivation is to avoid becoming irrelevant and to “have political immediacy and political value” as a soon-to-be lame duck (14:08–14:40).
• The episode is a call to action: only by securing Democratic majorities, hosts argue, can such unconstitutional ambitions be definitively shut down.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Michael Popok (opening):

  "Donald Trump's talking treason." (03:03)

• Steve Bannon (on the plan):

  “At the appropriate time, we'll lay out what the plan is. But there's a plan.” (05:56)

• Michael Popok (on the scheme’s mechanics):

  “They either have to lie to the American people that the person running... is not going to resign. That’ll be part of the debates.” (09:12)

• Ben Meiselas (summary call-to-action):

  “If you want to ensure this is just idle speculation... make sure Democrats take the House and Senate at the midterms and in 2028, because then we'll have impeachment and removal and conviction powers over a Donald Trump...” (14:20)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:03] Popok labels Trump’s "third term" talk as treason
• [05:45] Steve Bannon’s Economist interview asserting plans for Trump 2028
• [08:17] Popok explains the 22nd Amendment and potential constitutional workaround
• [12:20] Trump’s rambling non-denial and self-congratulatory remarks about 2028
• [14:08] Popok on Trump’s motivations and strategies to avoid irrelevance
• [14:40] Statistical data on recent public backlash and protest movements

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Conclusion

This episode of Legal AF blends sharp legal analysis with pointed political commentary, spotlighting the reckless authoritarian ambitions at play around Trump’s camp. The hosts urge listeners to take the threat seriously, persist in civic engagement, and rely on the courts, crowds, and courage to defend constitutional democracy.

Tone: Candid, urgent, at times sardonic—matching the hosts’ characteristic blend of legal gravitas and media savvy.

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For more legal analysis and access to court filings and more, the hosts recommend subscribing to the Legal AF Substack.

Transcript

[Jeff Bridges]

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[Michael Popak]

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[Steve Bannon]

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[Jeff Bridges]

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[Michael Popak]

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[Michael Popak]

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[Jeff Bridges]

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[Michael Popak]

Dude, my work here is done.

[Ben Meiselis]

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[Rubrik AI Agent Voice]

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[Michael Popak]

He thinks it's the antidote to being lame duck at the midterms to be flirting or trolling the American people about a possible third term in violation of the 22nd Amendment. It's treason. And any plan that Steve Bannon, you know, the coup plotter that went to jail, any plan that Steve Bannon or others around Donald Trump are proposing a version of Donald Trump will be vice president and then the president will on the way after he's elected, will resign and Donald Trump will become president. No violation of the 22nd Amendment is nothing more than treason. It's another good reason why we have to make sure the Democrats win the House and the Senate to prevent Donald Trump's third term. I don't actually believe he thinks he can get a third term, but I'm flirting with it. Him suggesting it's him trolling it is a way to have political expediency and political capital that he wouldn't normally have. All of the Trump 20, 28 hats and all of that. I'm Michael Popo. You're here on the Midas Touch Network. He's on a, he's on a Japanese Asian swing, I guess. And they decided that the, the media decided to ask questions because Steve Bannon in an interview with the Economist raised the third term again. Now let's talk about the treason. Let's talk about the violation of the 22nd Amendment and why I think Donald Trump is really, really floating this idea of never leaving office. First of all, 80% of America in new polling not only have, have rejected Donald Trump, but 80% don't want him running for a third term. That's pretty resounding, including having a lot of MAGA make up that 80%. I mean, 63% of America do not want Donald Trump had, have rejected Donald Trump and Trumpism and Trump economics and Trump tariff policy and immigration policy and civil disobedience policy and first amendment abuse. They rejected him. 80% are like third term. Are you effing kidding me? Now let's start with how all this happens. Coup plotter in chief Steve Bannon, who I will remind you, went to jail for, for failure to turn over documents and testify to the Jan6 committee, who was in the Willard Hotel with Rudy Giuliani and Michael Flynn plotting the coup to keep Donald Trump in power even after he'd lost in 2020. He floated the idea that they've come up with a plan to keep him in office, to which Donald Trump had to respond, or willingly responded to in the last 24 hours. Let's play the clip of Steve Bannon.

[Steve Bannon]

He's going to get a third term. So Trump, 28. Trump is going to be president. 28. And people just ought to get accommodated with that.

[Interviewer]

So what about the 22nd Amendment?

[Steve Bannon]

There's many different alternatives. At the appropriate time, we'll lay out what the plan is. But there's a plan. We had longer odds in 16 and longer odds in 24 than we got in 28. And President Trump will be the president United States. And the country needs him to be president United States. We have to finish what we started. Trump is a vehicle. I know this will drive you guys crazy, but he's a vehicle of divine providence. He's an instrument. He's very imperfect. He's not churchy, not particularly religious, but he's an instrument of divine will. And you can tell this of how we've. How he's pulled this off. We need him for at least one more term. Right. And he'll get that in 28.

[Interviewer]

You're not driving me crazy. I'm really. I'm trying to understand the coherence of the things you've just told me. On the one hand, you've said the Constitution is fit for purpose. Secondly, you've said that President Trump needs another term, Even though the 22nd amendment makes pretty clear that he cannot have another term.

[Steve Bannon]

And why does it make that clear?

[Interviewer]

Because he's on his second term already.

[Steve Bannon]

At some point in time, we will make sure we go through Zani and define all those terms.

[Interviewer]

But you will be undermining the spirit of that amendment, even if you find some way around it.

[Steve Bannon]

If the American people, with the mechanisms we have, put Trump back in office, are the American people tearing up the Constitution, would that be tearing up? Would they? Would the American people be going against the spirit of the Constitution, ma'? Am?

[Interviewer]

I think yes, actually. Because I think what you are going to. What you will end up with is populist justification for a quasi dictatorship.

[Steve Bannon]

That's not true at all.

[Michael Popak]

Trump works.

[Interviewer]

That's what it sounds like.

[Steve Bannon]

Trump is dictatorship. Did you just see the compromises he had to make on the big beautiful bill? You see the compromises he has to do on everything? On accommodating Zelensky? On what? On what President Trump. President Trump is nothing but a series of negotiations to kind of keep this thing rolling forward where he's having trade offs all the time.

[Interviewer]

Steve, you've just been, you've just spent the last 20 minutes telling me we have to smash the other side. There's no room for debate. There's no room for compromise. We must smash them. And now you're telling me this is a negotiation. I mean, that's.

[Rubrik AI Agent Voice]

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[Interviewer]

I guess that's why seems to me some kind of tension there.

[Steve Bannon]

The only way President Trump wins in 2028 and continues to stay in office is by the will of the American people. Okay. And the will of the American people is what the Constitution embodies. And so I think we're going to be. We're going to be in good hands there. We need to finish what we started.

[Michael Popak]

What is he talking about? Look, the 22nd Amendment is elegant in its simplicity. It says that no person shall serve the. Shall be elected president more than twice. That's it. Right. So the only way around it would be not to be elected president the third time, but to back his way into the office because of a president resigning or being taken out under the 25th Amendment. Here's where the treason comes in. So they got to get like a JD Vance or a Marco Rubio to commit treason, to violate the oath they took to uphold and defend the Constitution, lie to the American people that they are. They're going to serve out their term and then resign on day one and give Donald Trump the presidency in his mid-80s. What meat puppet are they going to get to do that? I mean, I could fill in the blanks there. And they either have to lie to the American people that the person running is running for a full term and is not going to resign. They, you know, that'll be part of the debates. Can you imagine Gavin Newsom in a 2028 debate with a candidate running with Donald Trump in the vice president position. Swear and vow now to the American people that you will not resign to allow Donald Trump to get a third term. That's where we're gonna be. So you either have to lie to the American people and do an end run around the Constitution and defraud the American people, or you're committing treason and. Or you're committing treason. Let's watch Donald Trump's response, in which even he thinks being vice president is too cute. He also lies about his poll numbers. I have some of the greatest poll numbers. He has the lowest poll numbers in the history of the modern presidency at the 10 month mark period. And that includes the first Trump presidency.

[Ben Meiselis]

Hey everybody, Ben Meiselis here from the Midas Touch Network. I wanted to let you know about my podcast partner Michael Popo's new law firm. It's called the Popak Firm. Michael Popo's pursuing his dream of starting his own law firm. Really based on the popular demand by all the Midas mighty and legal A effers who are approaching Michael Popak with their cases and saying, can you help us? And at that time, Popak was not able to. So he went out on his own. He started the Popoc firm where he is now handling catastrophic injury cases like car accident cases, trucking cases, malpractice cases, big negligence cases, wrongful death cases. So if you or someone you know have a case like this, the consultation with Popo's firm is free. Give them a call. See if you have a case. It's ThePopoc Firm.com ThePopoc Firm.com or you can call 877-popakaf p o p o k a f so 1-877-pop- okaf give Michael Popak and I'm really proud of you, Popak. Thanks for all the hard work you're putting in.

[Michael Popak]

63% of America believe the country is heading in the wrong direction. That means 63% are rejecting Donald Trump. 63% of Hispanics who voted in large numbers for Donald Trump helped get him elected have rejected Donald Trump. Two thirds of Hispanics under the age of 45 have rejected Donald Trump. Seventy percent of independents have rejected Donald Trump. So where are these poll numbers? He's going to crash below the 30% approval rating any day now. Oh, we're doing really great. We're, we're doing really great. This is like Adolf Hitler in the final hours of the, of World War II in the bunker. So let's play the clip. Sir Steve Bannon said in a recent.

[Jeff Bridges]

Interview that there could be plans for.

[Michael Popak]

You to be able to run and.

[Jeff Bridges]

Potentially win a parent term in 2028. Is that something you'd be feeling, the challenge? Well, I, I haven't really thought about it. We have some very good people, as you know. But I've had, I have the best poll numbers I've ever had. I mean, I just solved eight wars and a ninth is coming. I believe Russia, Ukraine will happen. But we just did, you know, we just left and when you look treaty, we just did. That was a war. That was, thousands of people were already shot at the border. And when you look at what we Just did. Was pretty amazing. Pretty amazing. We got a lot of. A lot of good credit. And I really have to thank Malaysia for that because they really. The prime minister and everybody really helped get the two countries together. But it was. It was quite a great peace treaty. But that was one of eight and makes me feel good. I mean, it's millions of people that we saved. We. I saved the lives of millions of people. That's what's important. Yeah. Very good people. They are good people for 2028. They're very good people. Well, we have great people. I don't have to get into that, but we have one of them standing right here. We have J.D. obviously, the Vice president is great. I think Marco is great. I think. I'm not sure if anybody would run against us. I think if they ever formed a group, it would be unstoppable. I really do. I believe I would love to do it. I have my best numbers ever. It's very terrible. I have my best numbers. If you read it. Am I not ruling it out? You'll have to tell me. All I can tell you is that we have a great group of people, which they don't.

[Michael Popak]

Now. What does he really believe or his people around him believe? That he can have a third term? No. This is a master troll of the American people. In order to give Donald Trump political immediacy and political value, as we move towards him becoming a lame duck president at the midterms, his number one fear is he becomes Mr. Irrelevant. So how do you stay not irrelevant? How do you stay relevant? You flirt with the idea that you're never leaving office. That's his antidote for lame duck. We say lame duck. He says third term. He says third term. We say lame duck. That's what we're watching. Because everything else is just a plan for treason. Now, if you. If you want to ensure that this is just idle speculation and an academic exercise by Donald Trump to try to remain relevant, it doesn't really come true. Then you make sure that the Democrats take the House and the Senate at the midterms and in 2028, because then we'll have impeachment and removal and conviction powers over a Donald Trump and. Or this. This stalking horse paper, you know, straw man president that would run with him in order to give him the. Resign and give him the presidency again. To which the. I'm gonna repeat what I said at the top of this. This hot take 80% of America, which means 30, a fair amount of MAGA and Republicans do not want Donald Trump a third term. They don't even want Donald Trump in a second term. He just won't take no for an answer, right? But polling, quick polling and street protests, which have now grown from 5 million hands off. April 7 million no kings June 10 million no kings October street protests, civil disobedience and polling quickly convert to actual votes at the poll on Election Day. And that's where Donald that's what Donald Trump's biggest fear is, is that he's going to be irrelevant. We're going to make him irrelevant. Working together, crowds, courts and courage. As Attorney General Rob Bonta told me during an interview, that's what we got on our side. That's what we need. Help us, protect us. Our First Amendment right to speak to you without blowing smoke or sunshine, to bring you the rigor and the vigor of legal commentary like no other here on the Midas Touch Network. Subscribe to Midas Touch subscribe to Legal AF subscribe as well to the Legal AF Substack. Until my next report, I'm Michael Popak. Can't get your fill of Legal af? Me neither. That's why we formed the Legal AF Substack. Every time we mention something in a hot take, whether it's a court filing or a oral argument, come out over to the substack. You'll find the court filing in the oral argument there, including a daily roundup that I do called Wait for it Morning af. What else? All the other contributors from Legal AO are there as well. We got some new reporting, we got interviews, we got ad free versions of the podcast and hot takes where Legal AF on Substack Come over now to free subscribe.

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[Ben Meiselis]

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