Legal AF by MeidasTouch: "Trump Gets Guts Ripped Out by Appeals Court in Final Order"

Date: September 9, 2025
Host: Michael Popok (with interviews featuring E. Jean Carroll and her attorney Roberta "Robbie" Kaplan)

Episode Overview

This episode delivers a deep dive into the recent Second Circuit Court of Appeals decision affirming the $83.5 million defamation and sexual abuse judgment against Donald Trump in favor of E. Jean Carroll. Michael Popok, civil rights attorney and legal analyst, breaks down the devastating appellate loss for Trump, details the legal failures of his counsel Alina Habba, and contextualizes these rulings as significant victories for both Carroll and accountability in high-profile civil litigation. The episode features insightful clips from exclusive interviews with E. Jean Carroll and her attorney Robbie Kaplan.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Trump’s Complete Appellate Loss: Second Circuit’s Final Order

• The Second Circuit Court of Appeals, a highly respected federal appellate bench, unanimously affirmed (3-0) the district court’s ruling, upholding all findings against Trump.
  • Trump is described as a "depraved defamer and abuser of E. Jean Carroll".
  • The judgment now exceeds $100 million with interest.
  • [01:55] Michael Popok:

    “Second Circuit Court of Appeals and their final ruling now against Donald Trump... just rules that Alina Habba screwed up ... both in the courtroom during the trial and on appeal. ... That’s one of the major reasons that Donald Trump just lost ... for the third time against E. Jean Carroll.”

Legal Malpractice by Trump’s Attorney Alina Habba

• Habba failed to timely argue presidential immunity, significantly weakening the Trump defense.
  • The court found Trump’s team waived immunity by not raising it in pleadings or trial.
  • The Supreme Court’s later, unrelated criminal immunity decision did not apply to this civil matter or affect waiver.
  • Habba’s incompetence is cited repeatedly as pivotal to the outcome.

Facts of the Case & Jury’s Reasoning

• Carroll, former Elle columnist, accused Trump of sexually assaulting her in 1996; Trump repeatedly defamed her after leaving office.
  • Jury awarded $5 million in the first trial (sexual assault), then $83.5 million in the second (defamation as a sitting president).
  • Most of the award—$65 million—was punitive damages intended to deter future misconduct.

Why Such a Large Punitive Damages Award?

• The court emphasized Trump’s relentless and ongoing attacks on Carroll, even after adverse verdicts:
  • He continued to call her a liar and impugn her motives within days of losing in court and during the second trial itself.
  • The panel reasoned that only an extraordinary financial penalty could possibly deter Trump.
  • [14:17] Michael Popok reads from the opinion:

    “For nearly five years, Trump never wavered or relented in his public attacks on Carroll, even when faced with the jury’s unanimous verdict in the first trial … He continued unrelenting assault, verbal assault, a defamatory assault on E. Jean Carroll. … We conclude that the ratio of punitive damages to compensatory damages was neither unpredictable nor unreasonable in relation to the actual harm...”

Trump’s “Wasn’t My Type” Defense Implodes

• A memorable deposition moment, played for the jury and discussed on the episode, where Trump mistakes Carroll for his own ex-wife in a photo—undermining his claim that Carroll wasn’t “his type.”
  • [09:07] Clip – Roberta Kaplan deposing Trump:

    Kaplan: “Which woman are you pointing to?”
    Trump: “No, here.”
    Kaplan: “The person you just pointed to was—”
    Trump: “Who is that?”

    • Popok: This was a critical moment—Trump found Carroll attractive, undercutting his own defense.

Complaint Waivers & Appellate Maneuvering

• The court and lawyers agree: Trump’s team repeatedly waived critical legal arguments.
  • The appellate panel saw through Trump’s “frolic and detour” attempts to delay and relitigate settled issues.

Exclusive Interviews & Memorable Moments

E. Jean Carroll on Justice, Money, and What Comes Next

• Carroll says she has no personal interest in the money, preferring simple joys over wealth.
  • [14:05] E. Jean Carroll:

    “I don’t need it. You know what, I’m 81. I know money doesn’t make me happy. ... Adventure, going for a walk with the dogs, having a great fettuccine Alfredo—that’s the stuff that makes me happy.”

• She has set up a foundation for the damages, with plans to support causes that benefit women and, as Popok says, “piss off Donald Trump.”
• The foundation’s infrastructure is in place—funds will be distributed upon collection.

Attorney Robbie Kaplan on Waiver and What’s Next

• Kaplan highlights how Trump’s legal team’s repeated waivers sealed their appellate fate.
  • [17:09] Roberta Kaplan:

    “This case is just full of waiver. Everywhere you look, there’s waiver. ... The Second Circuit heard arguments on whether or not Trump had waived presidential immunity… They’ve already decided that once. … Given the decision last Friday, my guess is we’ll see an opinion on that very shortly.”

• Outlines next procedural steps:
  • Trump’s team may seek en banc (full court) review or appeal to the Supreme Court—mainly for delay, not because they expect to win.
  • Even the right-leaning Supreme Court is unlikely to intervene in a civil defamation case involving events before Trump was president.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Segments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Context | |---------------|----------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:55 | Michael Popok | “...event after event that shows the incompetence of Alina Habba ... She screwed up... That’s one of the major reasons that Donald Trump just lost...”| | 09:48 | Donald Trump (Depo) | “That’s Marla [Maples]. Yeah, that’s, that’s my wife.” (mistaking Carroll for his wife in a photo) | | 12:12–14:17 | E. Jean Carroll / Popok | Carroll: “I’m 81. I know money doesn’t make me happy. ... Adventure, going for a walk with the dogs, having a great fettuccine Alfredo—that’s the stuff that makes me happy.” | | 14:17 | Michael Popok (reading court opinion) | “Trump made these attacks within 48 hours of the verdict in the first case and launched similar attacks ... The statements all shared a common theme. Trump continued to assert that Carol was lying... Given this extraordinary and unprecedented conduct...” | | 17:09 | Roberta Kaplan | “This case is just full of waiver. Everywhere you look, there’s waiver. ... They’ve already decided that once. ... They now have to decide it again.” | | 18:30 | Michael Popok & Kaplan | Discussion of appellate court procedure, likelihood of further delays vs. real overturn. |

Important Segments with Timestamps

• [01:55] – Popok summarizes the appellate ruling, Habba’s failures, and Trump’s triple loss.
• [09:07] – Deposition clip: Trump mistakes Carroll for his wife; undercuts his defense.
• [12:12–14:17] – Interview with Carroll: her views on the case outcome, the money, and her foundation.
• [14:17] – Popok reads the Second Circuit’s reasoning for upholding the punitive damages.
• [17:09–18:44] – Interview with Robbie Kaplan: legal waivers, the court’s rationale, and next legal steps.

Conclusion

This episode articulates a landmark legal defeat for Donald Trump, focusing on the ironclad appellate opinion that eviscerated his defenses and sustained the historic damages awarded to E. Jean Carroll. Through courtroom analysis and personal interviews, Legal AF highlights both the gravity of Trump’s misconduct and the importance of competent legal representation. The hosts and guests leave listeners with not only legal insights but also a sense of vindication for survivors of abuse and defamation.

E. Jean Carroll’s victory is positioned as a broader triumph for justice, signaling a possible cultural shift in accountability for those who perpetuate harm and wield power irresponsibly.

For detailed documents, filings, and related interviews, visit the Legal AF Substack page.