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- [00:01]
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- [00:29]
Lisa Schneider
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- [00:59]
Michael Popak
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- [01:02]
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- [01:40]
Michael Popak
Fantastic.
- [01:42]
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- [02:00]
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- [02:58]
Michael Popak
At a time when our democracy looks to be on a knife's edge, there is a silver lining. There are people that have beaten the Trump administration. Do it regularly. Eugene Carroll just can't stop winning and beating Donald Trump. She just got another this is not a repeat. This is not like a repeat. Hot take. She just won yet again at the Second Circuit Court of Appeals. It's the first shoe to drop. The second shoe's coming up in the next week or so. She's going to collect, I believe her, over $100 million that Donald Trump owes her for a jury finding that he sexually abused her and defamed her and continues to defame her. And she's just winning at the Second Circuit Court of Appeals. It shows us that in what appears to be darkness, there are torches that are shining and leading the way. All is not lost, I assure you. And the arc of history bends towards justice. Let's talk about E. Jean Carroll. I just, and I'm not taking any credit for this whatsoever. This is not even the Hummingbird effect, but just 48 hours before she won on the Second Circuit Court of Appeals, she was on with me, Michael Popak, along with Sidney Blumenthal and Sean Wilentz on the Legal AF channel. We were interviewing her and she actually turned to me and asked me if what my view was gonna be of the pending appeals. We now have the ruling from the 2nd Circuit about 1 of those judgments in her favor. But it was a funny moment when she, E. Jean Carroll, turned to me and said, michael, what do you think is gonna happen? And then you'll see a very surprising but fun response by E. Jean Carroll. Let's run that clip now.
- [04:42]
E. Jean Carroll
Well, Michael, what do you think?
- [04:46]
Michael Popak
I think, I think the two appeals that he's tried at the 2nd Circuit.
- [04:49]
Sidney Blumenthal
Based on the panels, including Judge Chen, who I know pretty well, they've rejected him. He's not going to be able to assert immunity, which was waived by Alina Hava and others a long, long time ago. And a long, long time ago, as referenced in the back to back oral arguments that Ravi so successfully argued in the last month or so. I don't see the United States Supreme Court, even this MAGA right wing court, being that interested in events that happened when he was Citizen Trump, when he attacked you and defamed you at all. There's only one event or one series of events that happened when he was even president, which was the defamation after the fact.
- [05:36]
Michael Popak
I just don't see this court in.
- [05:38]
Sidney Blumenthal
A civil matter having given him carte blanche in the criminal world, even they bailing him out and trying to do anything to undermine your judgments. That's my opinion.
- [05:52]
E. Jean Carroll
I concur. Looking good. Looking good. Yeah, I like that.
- [05:58]
Michael Popak
Does Robby or anybody else give you.
- [06:00]
E. Jean Carroll
A timeline on how this is going to work out or when? No, but we have a foundation already set up, lobe and lobe, by the head of the. By the chair, Rachel Harris of the State Department. We've got the foundation ready to go. We're just waiting for the money, and then that money is going to be given out.
- [06:21]
Michael Popak
I know. Ben, my podcast partner, was trying to convince you not to give it all out. Something about he wanted to see you have it.
- [06:30]
E. Jean Carroll
I don't need it. You know what? I'm 81. I know money doesn't make me happy. Adventure, having. Going for a walk with the dogs, having a great fettuccine Alfredo. That's the stuff that makes me happy. I don't need a bunch of money.
- [06:44]
Michael Popak
Okay, what happened? There are two major cases that are up on the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals involving E. Jean Carroll. One involves a $5.5 million judgment that she obtained first from one jury, a federal jury, 9 0, in which they found that she was sexually abused by Donald Trump in 1996 in that dressing room at Bergdorf Goodman's across the street from Trump Tower or down, you know, catty corner to Trump Tower, and that he defamed her before he was president, to boot. And they awarded her $5.5 million. He then didn't stop. He kept defaming and defaming. He was defaming her outside the courtroom every day in the trial. In the first trial, he didn't testify. That was Joe Tacopina's trial. In the second trial a month later, the only issues for the jury were not whether she was sexually abused. That was already determined by the first jury. So that was what we call law of the case or race judicata. The only issue for them was if he defamed her again when he was president of the United States first time around, from the Rose Garden, from the Oval Office, from any press conference, from any time he was asked the question, he was the defamer in chief. In fact, the turning point that Eugene Carroll told me in my interview with her just 48 hours ago on the legal AF channel. She said the turning point in the whole case, they knew they had won it when during the closing argument while her lawyer was up looking the jury in the eye and saying how much is it going to take from Donald Trump's money to make him stop abusing and defaming my client? How much money? Because they'd already been put. They already put on evidence and the Pew unit of damage phase that he was worth several billion dollars even then more now with his cryptocurrency schemes. And the jury came back with $83 million. And she told she tells a funny story that when the jury, which is a very New York Manhattan jury, a lot of them in the financial industry, they came back, they put 83m next to it, which is M or MM is A as a symbol. I use it also having worked on Wall street to signify millions, but they didn't write out millions or put the number out. So the bailiff looked at it, shook his head, gave it to the judge and they had to ask the jury what does the M stand for? And they said millions. And then there was just a cheer that broke out. Donald Trump appealed both of those decisions, the 5.5 million and the 83.3 million. He had a post a bond. To answer the question that comes up often in the in the comments. She hasn't been paid a dime yet. True, true. But it's running with interest, a very high prejudgment interest. I think it's over 9% in New York and it's bonded. There is a marker behind it. He had to put up a cash bond and continue to increase the cash bond to the court registry on the 5.5 million and the 83 and a half, which is now well into the into the high 90s. 90 millions is backed by a surety company, insurance company that will pay out once the final appeal is exhausted. The only one left on the train is the United States Supreme Court. You know what they don't tell you about hitting a certain age? The gray just shows up like an uninvited guest. I'd look in the mirror and think, when did that happen? I don't have time for salon visits or messy kits that feel like chemistry class gone wrong. I needed something quicker, cleaner and yeah, simpler. This podcast is sponsored by Simpler Hair Color. Simpler hair color is the easiest way to eliminate grays. Modern men deserve simpler, safer ways to care for their appearance with simpler hair color. You've got gentler ingredients without the messy mixing or constant trips to the salon or drugstore. Like I had an important meeting last week and I wanted to look my best so I used simpler hair color. My grays were gone quickly with no drips and no delay. I tried the dark brown shade and and it blended with my natural color perfectly. It was founded by Snehal Patel and Mitch Brown, two guys who were just done with harsh dyes and DIY disasters. Simpler hair color works for both hair and beard and one can gives you as many uses as up to four boxes of drugstore dye. And yes, it's made right here in the USA. With over 9,500 five star reviews. Say goodbye to grays the easy way with simpler hair color. Head to simplerhaircolor.com legalaf and use code legal af for 15% off your order. Once again, that simplerhaircolor.com legalif for 15% off and make sure you use my promo code legal af so they know I sent you. Same Second Circuit Court of Appeal panel led by Judge Chen, who I know well. I've argued cases in front of him when he was a trial court judge. First in the 5.5 million. They argued that Judge Kaplan made reversible error decisions. He allowed in other witnesses who were sexually abused by Donald Trump. As they testified, a People magazine reporter and a woman who had the misfortune of being upgraded on an airplane to first class sitting next to Donald Trump and he molested her. That's her testimony. He also let on the Access Hollywood audio of Donald Trump saying he can get away with sexually molesting, sexually assaulting a woman because he's a celebrity that came in. So they argue that shouldn't have come in and these, this piece of evidence shouldn't come in. And the reality is, from a, from a trial lawyer standpoint, you are entitled to a fair trial. You are not entitled to a perfect trial. There's errors that happen all the time in trials. The judge gets it wrong, the opposing lawyer does something wrong, you might do something wrong. Piece of evidence came in, didn't come in. A witness you think was going to testify a certain way suddenly says something, blurts something out, has to be resolved in front of the jury with a curative instruction. All sorts of things. Things can happen, but that's not what you're entitled to. You're just entitled to something where your rights have not been substantially compromised by a reversible error made by the judge or in the case. And the 2nd Circuit looked at all the facts and said, not a perfect trial, but it's not a trial that was suffused with error that undermined your rights. And so we are affirming the trial judges and the jury's verdict against you for $5.5 million. This will be the first shoe. The second shoe is same panel is going to deny whether that immunity, any kind of presidential immunity, hasn't been waived in this case. They're going to deny the motion to reverse or the appeal to reverse the 83.5 because the Donald Trump enjoyed presidential immunity. They waived that. It took Alina Haba 18 months to raise the issue in court. They waived it. Second Circuit already looked at that issue and said two and a half years ago that they, that it was waived. They argue, well, no, presidential immunity can't be waived. And now we've got the immunity decision for the United States Supreme Court. But presidential immunity has been on the books forever. And if you thought you had the right to it, even though it's like, well, it's been expanded. So we didn't know we could really. Yes, you did, because you raised it. You just raised it late. So I think that gets rejected. And we're going to have two conclusive final judgments by the jury. 83 and a half running with interest for two years and 5.5 million, close to 100 million in total. Donald Trump would then have to, would then have to take an appeal to the United States Supreme Court. In the Supreme Court decision, their first decision is whether this is something they even want to entertain on an appeal. This is a civil matter about a sexual abuse that happened in the 90s when Donald Trump wasn't even a candidate, let alone president. That's a, that sounds like a highly personal, private conduct having nothing to do with the presidency. They're all about the presidency and presidential power bending over backwards to help this president, to embolden this president, to put him in, as Ketanji Brown Jackson has said, into a law free zone. However, there are limits. Even they noted the limits in the immunity decision that they rendered, which basically made him a lawless president. If he's doing private things in private conduct. Now, the defamation that led to the 83.5 million happened on his watch as president, but not within the course and scope of his duties. Three different courts have said that. So they'd have to say, well, he was allowed to defend himself to protect the power of the presidency and therefore that could not form the basis basis of defamation that even for this MAGA majority, that's a pretty far stretch. I mean, I'm not an idiot. They could, they could, they could also not take it up. It won't be in an emergency application this summer. It'll be something that we'll have to be addressing and looking at carefully in the when the first term reopens for the supreme the next term reopens for the Supreme Court on the first Monday of October. But until then, E. Jean Carroll, she, she just can't stop winning. And I have to tell you personally, I was a huge fan of hers and we cover her cases, you know, calling balls and strikes as best we can. But I have personal admiration for E. Jean Carroll. She's got that new book out. Not my type. She is a delight to interview. She is so amazing. What a raconteur. So intelligent, so much intestinal fortitude, strength of character all wrapped up into one supremely interesting person. And, and I just, just honored to have her on Legal af. I'll put a note here at the bottom of this hot take so you can go to the full interview that we just did a couple of days ago for which I just showed you the clip. So until my next report here on Midas Touch Network and on Legal AF, take a moment, hit the subscribe button on Legal AF, the YouTube channel. Of course, here on the Midas Touch Network, we don't have pay walls, right? We don't have outside investors. This is the way you support democracy. So until my next report, I'm Michael Popach. Can't get your fill of Legal af. Me neither. That's why we formed the Legal AF substack. Every time we mention something in a hot take, whether it's a court filing or a oral argument, come over to the substack. You'll find the court filing in the oral argument there, including a daily roundup that I do called Wait for it Morning af. What else? All the other contributors from Legal AO are there as well. Well, we got some new reporting, we got interviews, we got ad free versions of the podcast and hot takes where Legal AF on Substack. Come over now to free subscribe.