Legal AF Podcast Summary: "Trump Gives Unlawful Order That Can End His Term Quick"
Release Date: June 10, 2025
Hosts:
- Ben Meiselas, Founder and Civil Rights Lawyer, MeidasTouch Network
- Michael Popak, National Trial Lawyer Strategist
- Karen Friedman Agnifilo, Former Chief Assistant District Attorney, Manhattan DA's Office
Introduction
In the June 10, 2025 episode of Legal AF by MeidasTouch Network, hosts Ben Meiselas, Michael Popak, and Karen Friedman Agnifilo delve into a contentious and pivotal moment in American politics: former President Donald Trump's issuance of what they argue is an unlawful order pertaining to the deployment of the National Guard in California. The episode meticulously examines the legal and political ramifications of Trump's actions, drawing parallels to historical events and highlighting the potential consequences for his political future.
Trump’s Unlawful Order and Its Implications
Michael Popak opens the discussion by addressing a recent statement made by Donald Trump at Camp David, where Trump seemingly incited excessive force against protesters in California. He states:
“When I heard him stand at Camp David... when Trump sent in... he used and paraphrased the phrase that's now gone down in civil rights history as being one of the most infamous lines mentioned by a law enforcement official.”
- Michael Popak, [02:30]
Popak draws a direct comparison between Trump's rhetoric and his infamous “When the looting starts, the shooting starts” comment from his previous term, suggesting a deliberate strategy to provoke confrontation.
Historical Parallels and Legal Concerns
The hosts explore the historical context of such rhetoric by referencing Trump's previous statements during the Black Lives Matter protests and the tragic events at Kent State in the 1970s. Popak emphasizes the dangerous precedent set by equating property protection with lethal force against civilians:
“What it means is that's a permission slip for law enforcement to start blowing off heads with weapons to protect property.”
- Michael Popak, [07:45]
The discussion highlights the potential misuse of the Insurrection Act, questioning the legality of Trump's order to mobilize the National Guard without state consent. Popak notes:
“Are you allowed to commandeer the National Guard and take it over? That's not as crystal clear as you would think.”
- Michael Popak, [07:15]
He underscores the ambiguity in legal interpretations, suggesting that the Supreme Court may need to intervene to clarify presidential powers in such scenarios.
Stephen Miller’s Controversial Statement
A pivotal moment in the episode involves a clip of Stephen Miller, a key Trump advisor, defending Trump's "spit and hit" rhetoric. After Trump's speech, Miller comments:
“Well, I've heard that phrase for a long time... frankly, it means when there's looting, people get shot and they die.”
- Stephen Miller, [13:12]
Popak criticizes Miller’s attempt to downplay the statement, arguing that it is a clear endorsement of excessive force:
“That's not what it means. And he knows it's not what it means.”
- Michael Popak, [13:53]
This segment underscores the normalization of aggressive law enforcement tactics and their impact on civil liberties.
Gavin Newsom’s Response and the Path Forward
The episode shifts focus to California Governor Gavin Newsom's response to Trump's directive. Popak praises Newsom for his stance against what he terms unlawful interference:
“Gavin Newsom is doing his part to call out the illegal sending in of the National Guard by Donald Trump...”
- Michael Popak, [14:20]
Emphasizing the need for peaceful protest, the hosts advocate for a "Gandhi moment" reminiscent of Martin Luther King Jr.'s nonviolent resistance, contrasting it with past violent responses to protests.
Legal Ramifications and Future Actions
Popak discusses the potential legal battles that may arise from Trump's actions, predicting extensive Supreme Court involvement and the creation of legal precedents:
“...entire law school textbooks devoted to Trump law... the Supreme Court.”
- Michael Popak, [07:50]
He cautions against allowing Trump's provocations to justify authoritarian measures, urging lawmakers and citizens to uphold democratic principles and resist escalating into lawlessness.
Calls to Action and Community Engagement
Towards the end of the episode, Popak encourages listeners to engage with the Legal AF community through their YouTube channel and Substack for ongoing updates and in-depth analysis:
“Until my next report, I'm Michael Popak. Can't get your fill of Legal AF. Me neither...”
- Michael Popak, [16:00]
He highlights the importance of staying informed and actively participating in legal and political discourse to counteract authoritarian tendencies.
Conclusion
The episode concludes with a somber reflection on the current state of American democracy, emphasizing the urgency to address and counteract divisive and unlawful political maneuvers. The hosts call for unity, legal scrutiny, and peaceful advocacy to safeguard civil liberties and uphold the rule of law.
Notable Quotes:
-
Michael Popak ([02:30]): “When I heard him stand at Camp David... as being one of the most infamous lines mentioned by a law enforcement official.”
-
Stephen Miller ([13:12]): “Frankly, it means when there's looting, people get shot and they die.”
-
Michael Popak ([07:45]): “What it means is that's a permission slip for law enforcement to start blowing off heads with weapons to protect property.”
Key Takeaways:
- Donald Trump’s recent statements may represent a strategic move to incite confrontation between protesters and law enforcement.
- Historical parallels to past events highlight the potential for abuse of power and erosion of civil liberties.
- Legal ambiguities surrounding the deployment of the National Guard during protests necessitate judicial intervention.
- Advocacy for peaceful protest and adherence to democratic principles is crucial in resisting authoritarian tactics.
For more detailed analyses and real-time updates, listeners are encouraged to visit the Legal AF YouTube channel and subscribe to their Substack newsletter.