Trump Screws his Own Lawyers Right Before Appeal

Summary

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Legal AF – "Trump Screws his Own Lawyers Right Before Appeal"

Podcast: Legal AF by MeidasTouch
Episode Date: October 30, 2025
Host: Michael Popok (MeidasTouch Network)
Main Theme:
A deep dive into the breaking legal battle over Donald Trump’s attempts to federalize and deploy the National Guard in Oregon, focusing on the recent dramatic developments at the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. The episode features detailed analysis of the legal maneuvers, critical judicial decisions, and the shocking revelations about federal actions in Portland.

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the ongoing legal struggle over Trump’s attempted use of the National Guard in blue states, particularly Oregon. Host Michael Popok breaks down the stunning move by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals to vacate a previous Trump-friendly ruling and grant a rare en banc (full bench) hearing, while also previewing a pivotal trial in Portland and exposing disturbing new evidence about federal law enforcement actions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Breaking Developments at the 9th Circuit (00:00–04:30)

• Reversal of Trump-Era Ruling

  • A three-judge, Trump-appointed panel of the 9th Circuit Court had ruled that Trump could commandeer the Oregon National Guard.
  • The full 9th Circuit—meaning a majority of the 29 judges—decided to grant an en banc review, effectively tossing the October 20th panel ruling.
  • The chief judge, Mary Murguia, issued an order vacating the prior decision, reverting authority back to trial judge Immergut.

• What It Means for Oregon

  • Judge Immergut’s original temporary restraining orders (TRO) stay in place, blocking Trump’s deployment of the National Guard in Oregon.
  • "Still no National Guard on the streets of Oregon because… the October 20th… order was thrown out." (Michael Popok, 03:30)

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2. The Portland Federal Trial – Explosive Evidence (04:31–08:40)

• Trial Begins Under Judge Immergut

  • With the appeals court intervention, attention turns to the trial, which will decide if the TRO becomes a permanent injunction.
  • Judge Immergut is portrayed as a "no nonsense," respected jurist, with deep federal experience—despite being a Trump appointee.

• Bombshell Trial Briefs

  • The states of Oregon & California, along with the City of Portland, outline chilling evidence:

    • Federal officers reportedly fired pepper balls and used gas against local Portland police—not just protesters.
    • "Federal officers, okay. Firing at Portland police. Can you believe it?" (Popok, 01:20)
    • Local officers were gassed, and one was even hit by a federal projectile.

  • Trial brief argues:

    • "The ordinary challenges of governing cannot justify the extraordinary measures defendants employed here. … First Amendment protected assemblies, even when combined with limited sporadic episodes of unlawful conduct, do not constitute a rebellion or an inability to execute the laws… under 12406."
    • "You can’t create the conditions for your own chaos and then call it a rebellion." (Popok, 05:50)

  • The federal government’s excessive force led to scenes "broadcast on national television," inflaming Trump’s narrative about Portland as “under siege.”

    • "Caused by the feds." (Popok, 07:00)

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3. Legal and Constitutional Stakes (08:41–10:30)

• Executive Overreach and State Sovereignty

  • The core legal battle is over states' rights versus federal power, especially in protest and riot response.
  • The plaintiffs argue Trump’s moves violate the principles guarding against presidential overreach and domestic militarization.

• Strong Judicial Response

  • The 9th Circuit’s decision to grant a full hearing—signaled as confidence in Judge Immergut and a rebuke to the initial panel.
  • Popok notes: “From having been in front of federal judges for 35 years, that will embolden her… in her analysis and decision-making.” (Popok, 09:50)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Federal Overreach:
  "If you’re attacking local law enforcement, and you’re taking them out of the game, you can’t create the conditions for your own chaos and then call it a rebellion." – Michael Popok [05:50]

• On Judicial Intervention:
  "Still no National Guard on the streets of Oregon because… the October 20th…order was thrown out. We revert back to Judge Immergut." – Michael Popok [03:30]

• On Judge Immergut’s Reputation:
  "She’s not to be trifled with… steely eyed… and this has given her wind at her sail as she goes into this trial." – Michael Popok [08:20]

• Summary of the State’s Argument:
  "Put another way, unlawful conduct while inexcusable is properly managed by regular law enforcement if you weren’t shooting them in the head with pepper balls and pepper spray." – Michael Popok, quoting trial brief [07:30]

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Critical Timestamps

• 00:00–04:30 – Breaking news: 9th Circuit vacates Trump-appointed panel decision, sets up full "en banc" review, and restores TRO.
• 04:31–08:40 – Details of the explosive trial evidence: federal agents attacking Portland police, state’s legal strategy, and constitutional principles at stake.
• 08:41–10:30 – Implications for executive power, judicial confidence in trial judge, and broader stakes for democracy.

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Final Thoughts

The episode is a powerful breakdown of a high-stakes battle over federal and state authority, revealing behind-the-scenes evidence of federal overreach and a judiciary pushing back against executive excess. Michael Popok’s detailed legal analysis, combined with compelling excerpts from court filings and trial briefs, makes the case urgent and accessible.

For continued coverage and more in-depth analysis, listeners are encouraged to follow Legal AF on YouTube and Substack.

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Transcript

[Michael Popak]

We got major and breaking developments in Oregon about the National Guard and Donald Trump's attempt to federalize and militarize his attacks on blue states. We've got a 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. The majority of the entire 29 judges of the Court of Appeals have decided that they're going to grant a new hearing. They're going to throw out a ruling by a three judge Trump dominated panel from 20 October that said that Donald Trump could use the National Guard on the streets of Portland, Oregon. They're tossing that they're holding an entire new hearing in front of 11 judges to get to the bottom of it. But that's not all. Judge Immergut, the trial judge in Portland, Oregon just started her trial today to determine whether she's going to convert her temporary restraining order into a permanent injunction. And, and wait till you hear the new evidence that the states of California and Oregon and the city of Portland are going to put on during the trial, including federal officers shooting pepper balls and gas at Portland police. Federal officers, okay. Firing at Portland police. Can you believe it? I'm going to read it all to you. I'm going to commentate on it right here on the Midas Touch Network and Legal af. Let's get to the breaking news of this fast moving story. On October 20th, a three judge panel was no surprise to those that listened to the oral argument, ruled against Judge Immergut who had issued two orders based on the evidence presented to her. And she's a Trump appointee. First order was to stop Donald Trump from mobilizing the National Guard in Oregon, meaning commandeering it, taking control of it. The second order, she stopped him from deploying any National Guard regardless of the state. They come from the regiment in Oregon. One of those two orders, the first one on mobilization, on takeover, went up to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. It sits in San Francisco. Three judge random panel, two Trumpers, one Clinton appointee. You know, it's the old joke, how many Trump judges does it take to screw up the rule of law too? And they ruled against Judge Immergat on the issue of the mobilization and indirectly on the deployment and stopped her order. However, once it became clear that the parties for the states, Oregon and California were going to take an appeal and ask for the four full panel. That's a right that you get as a person that's in an appeal. If you don't like your three judge panel, which is generally how appellate decisions are made randomly, then you ask. It's a, it's a, it's A request, it's not a. You can't compel it. You ask the entirety of the judges of that circuit, 9th Circuit, there's 29 of them. And you ask for a full en banc, meaning in the case of 9th Circuit, 11 judges to hear your case, not just three, but the majority of the 29 have to agree. And they have. We just got the new order that got issued by the chief judge of the ninth Circuit. I'll post it in Legal af substack for you and the judge there, Judge Mergua. Mergua, she vacated meaning she threw out the earlier decision by the, on the 20th of October by the three judge panel vacating it and is now going to be setting a briefing schedule, an oral argument schedule. And in the meantime she has, by throwing it out, we revert back to Judge Immergut, the trial judge's original order, meaning no deployment, stay in your barracks. Still no National Guard on the streets of Oregon because of the fact that the October 20th three judge order was thrown out. We revert back to Judge Immergut. Judge. Judge Immergut stays. Her temporary restraining orders stay in place. And that's what's happening at the ninth Circuit. It's a good sign that at least of the 29, a majority decided. Let's say 15 decided no. We want to hear this case now. We'll have to see who the 10 that are picked. It's 10. It's actually 11. It's 10 random. From the, from the pool of 29 could be some of the judges that already heard the case and the chief judge and then they make their decision. Now let's fast forward. Did I mention you're on the Midas Touch network? You're on Legal af. Take a moment, hit the free subscribe button here. Come over to Legal AF on the YouTube channel and substack, do the exact same thing. We're about to hit the 1 million subscriber threshold on Legal AF's YouTube and that's all because of you. All right, now this week we have the trial starting in front of the trial judge. Now that we've cleared away all the debris from the appeals level and the National Guard are safely stashed away in their barracks, let's get to the trial. Now listen to this. I'm going to post this up on Legal A f subsect, I'm going to read it to you. Now. This is the trial brief that got filed on Monday in the case by Portland, the state of Oregon and California. And I had not known that this was going to be the evidence in the case. It says that witnesses will. This is on page three. Witnesses will testify at trial that in the period following the President's September 27 decision to send in the troops, federal federal law enforcement caused the situation to deteriorate on the ground by employing indiscriminate excessive force against small crowds. Even Portland's officers, local law enforcement, were caught up in this overreaction. They have been gassed by federal law enforcement. On at least one occasion, an officer was hit by a federal law enforcement officers projectile. I mean, think about this. This is now, this is anarchy. The feds are attacking local law enforcement. The fundamental basis for a president to be able to exercise his right to commandeer a National Guard and Deploy it under 10 USC 12406 is that local law enforcement can't do its job requiring the president to try to use this heightened force in order to execute federal law. Well, if you're attacking local law enforcement and you're taking them out of the game, you can't create the conditions for your own chaos and then call it a rebellion or say, see, I can't execute the laws. This is chaos. Chaos that you created the federal government. They continue on page three of the trial brief. The federal government's needless use of munitions at the facility, the ICE facility, also created the appearance of smoke, flashes of fire and explosions, all of which were broadcast on national television. It's no wonder then that after his September 27 decision, the President sought to bolster his initial assessment with more hyperbolic descriptions of explosions and fire all over the place. Yeah, caused by the feds. Here's what they say at the beginning of their. Of their trial brief. Now, the trial brief is something you provide. It's a bench brief. You provide to the trial judge in advance of the trial. This. There's no jury here. This is going to be decided by the bench. This informs her about the evidence, sort of a little bit of your opening statement, kind of. It addresses your presentation and the judge asked for them. So both sides get a trial. Memoranda goes to the judge. She reads it in advance to sort of orient her about the case, although she certainly already knows about it. Here's what it says on the first two pages. The ordinary challenges of governing cannot justify the extraordinary measures defendants employed here. The Trump administration. First Amendment protected assemblies, even when combined with limited sporadic episodes of unlawful conduct, do not constitute a rebellion or an inability to execute the laws of the United States under 12406. Put another way, unlawful conduct while inexcusable is properly managed by regular law enforcement if you weren't shooting them in the head with pepper balls and pepper spray. It's those core principles which guard against both the presidential overreach and domestic militarization that our nation's founders rightly feared are dispositive. In this case based on little more than a hyperbolic characterization of Portland as a war ravaged community under siege by domestic terror terrorist, the president infringed on Oregon's sovereign power. And then they go into the evidence and the testimony that's going to, that's going to happen here. Judge is going to have a three day trial. Let me tell you about this judge. In case you didn't remember from early reporting, Judge Immergat, it's not to be trifled with. She's been a an assistant U.S. attorney in Los Angeles. She's been the U.S. attorney for Portland, Oregon. She's been a federal judge, she's been a magistrate, she's practiced in Rhode Island. She's a Trump appointee. She's very popular. But she's no nonsense. She's steely eyed and she's going to take on now and I think this has given her wind at her sail as she goes into this trial. And I'm sure the 9th Circuit was signaling it knowing that Judge Immergut was about to start a trial. They issued their order yesterday telling her effectively we got you that three judge panel that overturned you, we vacated that. We've thrown that out the door. We're going to take a new look at it. We that I will tell you from, from having been in front of federal judges for 35 years that will embolden her, that will comfort her in her that she's right about her analysis and decision making and shouldn't have doubts about it. We're going to cover it all right here on the Midas Touch Network. And as things develop during the course of the trial, come over to Legal AF substack and Legal AF YouTube where we will give you up to the minute reporting till my next report. I'm Michael Popak.

[Legal AF Co-host]

Can't get your fill of Legal af.

[Michael Popak]

Me neither.

[Legal AF Co-host]

That's why we formed the Legal AF substack. Every time we mention something in a hot take, whether it's a court filing or a oral argument, come over to the substack. You'll find the court filing and the oral argument there including a daily roundup.

[Michael Popak]

That I do called wait for it.

[Legal AF Co-host]

Morning af What else? All the other contributors from Legal AAF are there as well. We got some new reporting, we got interviews, we got ad free versions of the podcast and hot takes where legal AF on substack. Come over now to free subscribe.

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