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- [00:00]
Tony Hawk
Rated T for Teen.
- [00:02]
Narrator
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- [00:31]
Financial Expert
You know that one friend who somehow knows everything about money?
- [00:34]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [00:35]
Financial Expert
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- [00:58]
Progressive Insurance Spokesperson
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- [01:26]
Tony Hawk
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- [02:26]
Interviewer
You up at night?
- [02:29]
Ketanji Brown Jackson
I would say the state of our democracy. I would say that I am really very interested interested in getting people to focus and to invest and to pay attention to what is happening in our country and in our government.
- [02:54]
Interviewer
Who's your favorite United States District Judge?
- [02:59]
Michael Popok
No comment.
- [03:00]
Interviewer
Well, in this critical moment in our democracy, it takes our youngest Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson to look the American people in the eye with that intestinal fortitude of hers, that strength of character, and tell them the truth, that the state of our democracy is what keeps her up at night. As you just heard from her being interviewed at the Indianapolis Bar association after the end of this term, we know the context for her. We know that she is a shining light and beacon about what this constitutional republic is supposed to be, what it can be, what it should be. And she's holding her, the rest of the Supreme Court and the MAGA right wing accountable. She's taking names, she's kicking butt, and she's doing it in her dissents. And the reason for those dissents and why they're so important is because they speak to our inner angels, to the best part of who we are as Americans. And they are like a note in a bottle to be recovered in some very soon, near future time, they'll be read by generations of law students and influence their jurisprudence. And they will often somebody who writes dissents like that now, it may be a couple of years, but they will often turn the tide and become the majority opinion. Let's talk about Ketanji Brown Jackson because she matters, because we matter, because we do it all here on the Midas Touch Network the way she wants us to. She wants us to focus. She wants us to pay attention to what is happening. And that's exactly why we created the Midas Touch Network and why we created legal af. Let's talk about Ketanji Brown Jackson. I'm Michael Popach. This is not the first time we've heard from her this term. In May, on May Day in Puerto Rico, Ketanji Brown Jackson talked about the assault of the Trump administration on the rule of law, attacking the judiciary, attacking judges, attacking lawyers. And she was a frontrunner. She said those things even before she wrote some of her most powerful dissents in the last several months. So you see, it's bookended by the statement she made in Puerto Rico on a key critical day of May Day, Law Day, if you will, and on the comments that she made looking back on this term. She never mentions anybody by name. You saw the very hearty belly laugh when she was asked by the interviewer about who's her favorite federal district judge. These are the judges that make the decisions that ultimately make their way to the Supreme Court. But she knows where, she knows where she was going with that. Let me read to you from some of the dissents that Katanji Brown Jackson has written, joined usually by Justice Sotomayor and by Justice Kagan. She wrote in recent weeks. For instance, that in Puerto Rico, as you saw, she said in Puerto Rico when she gave her speech, she said the attacks on the judiciary are not random. They seem designed to intimidate those of us who serve in this critical capacity. The threats and harassment are our attacks on our democracy, on our system of government, and they ultimately risk undermining our Constitution and the rule of law. A shining beacon is Ketanji Brown Jackson in a dissent last month related to national or nationwide injunctions being curbed or taken out of the tool bag for federal judges. She wrote in her dissent, perhaps the degradation of our rule of law regime would happen anyway, but this court's complicity and the creation of a culture of disdain for lower courts, their rulings and the law as they interpret it will surely hasten the downfall of our governing institutions, enabling our collective demise. She registered her dissent with deep disillusionment. She also said that the MAGA right wing majority on the Supreme Court has put Donald Trump into a law free zone that he is not entitled to, that no president is entitled to, destroying the delicate separation of power and the checks and balance that was established by our founders. She also wrote in another dissent, for the reasons, and this is just in the last couple of days, she said for some reason, this court in her dissent this week concerning the decision to allow the reduction in force and the dramatic altering of the relationship between the government and its people in terms of the social safety net, federal agencies and departments like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, veterans benefits and the rest and funding and all of that, she said for some reason, and this is another dissent from her, this court sees fit to step in and now release the president's wrecking ball at the outset of this litigation. In my view, this decision is not only truly unfortunate, but also hubristic and senseless. And she is not shy about taking on some of the swing votes on the Supreme Court. Like Ketanji Brown, like Amy Coney Barrett, she feels it's important. You know, I recently did an interview with Leah Lippman, who has another cop podcast called Strict Scrutiny, she's a law professor of University of Michigan, about the power of dissents. Even though they're not the majority opinion for the Supreme Court. Like why, why bother? Why bother at all, I guess is the way to put it. And in a recent interview in which she gave another statement about the power of dissents, she said sometimes she sees it as an existential threat to the rule of law. Ketanji Brown Jackson, she said, sometimes we have cases that have those kind of implications. And we know and you know, are these cases that are issues where there is a kind of significance. So she feels that lawlessness by the executive branch is being allowed to flourish. She said this in another dissent. And executive power will be completely uncontainable. Let's run the clip of her again. This is her coming out since the court is over just in the last 48 hours or so. Here's her comment about her blistering dissents, which she defends, about the different opinions that she has with the other people that she shares the bench with. Let's run that clip.
- [09:39]
Michael Popok
You wrote that you predict executive power will become completely uncontainable. Just today a professor was quoted in the New York Times talking about you and said Justice Jackson is trying to raise the alarm. Whether she is writing for the public or a future court, she is making a larger point about what she sees as not just the errors of the majority's position, but but the dangers of it as well. Does the current state of American democracy concern you?
- [10:10]
Ketanji Brown Jackson
So I am actually heartened that people are focused on the court and the work that we're doing on the state of the government because again, as I mentioned, as a democracy, the people are supposed to be the rulers. The people are supposed to be leading in terms of the policies and the way in which our government operates. And so the more that people are engaged with our institutions, I think the better. And so what I feel that I've been privileged to do is use the writings that I do, the work that I do, to explain my views about the way our government does and should work, the way the court does and should work. I think the nice part about being on the court is that you have the opportunity, whether you're in the majority or in the dissent, to express your opinions.
- [11:19]
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- [12:20]
Interviewer
I think the point of this hot take is we need to both heed the clarion call of Ketanji Brown Jackson and follow her lead to not lose sight or focus or lose interest in what is happening. I know there's a certain amount of fatigue and I don't want you to think every time I come on Midas Touch or Legal af I'll appears the grim reaper talking about another case that's happened, any case where, where there's been a ruling that's adverse to democracy or the separation of powers. There is somewhere in there and maybe it is the dissent, the blueprint to resist, to defy, to change the order of things. In other cases, cases beget and beget other cases and strategies and tactics have to change and we talk about it. Yes, we kind of give the, you know, here's what happened sort of yesterday's news. You but we tried to also do it as here's what happens but here's what should happen next and can happen next based on that, you know, we're being dealt cards but we can play our hand in a different way with the knowledge that we have now have about the United States Supreme Court. And that's the point of dissents, to kind of be a shining light in the darkness, to lead us down the proper path. The arc of history bends towards justice. It's just, I mean, I know that's a little bit of a hackneyed phrase in saying we say it and sometimes we don't understand what the words mean. But eventually the wheel of justice will turn back towards justice and it will be led by people like Ketanji Brown Jackson and we will look back on her dissents and say, right, where were the judges and where were the lawyers? They were here with us the whole time, providing us with leadership. Now she's one vote or three votes with her other like minded moderates on the bench. But we can see how over time she can change the hearts and minds, not just the people on the United States Supreme Court, but out here where it matters for voting purposes. We need people like Ketanji Brown Jackson just like we need people like Jamie Raskin in Congress and Adam Schiff and Hakeem Jeffries and Richie Torres and the rest talking to us. Doug Jones, former Senator from a red, red state of Alabama talking to us about and emboldening us and empowering us with knowledge, which we need in the resistance. I said this after the election and it's so true today that we have to steel ourselves for the resistance. We're in opposition, but that doesn't mean we're gonna be leaning back. That doesn't mean we're defeated. That doesn't mean there's no optimism or hope or it's just one long, dark, black tunnel with no shining light at the end. History tells us that that is not true. We see it in the wins that we are accomplishing at the trial court level and at the appellate court level. Sure, we're losing at a higher percentage than I would like at the United States Supreme Court, but we're winning a few at the United States Supreme Court as well. Not in the numbers that we expect or that from a jurisprudential analysis that we should, but we are winning there a handful as well, and the tide will turn. We gotta be led and allow ourselves to be led by people like Ketanji Brown Jackson. So I'll continue to follow it because we have to, because we have to speak truth to each other because that empowers us right here on the Midas Dutch Network. I mean, I'm not saying Katanji Brown Jackson is a fan of the. Of the Midas Dutch Network, Illegal af, but she does, she does use the same vocabulary that we do about the the need to focus and invest and pay attention to what is happening. And we do it all together here in this fellowship of Legal AF and the Midas Dutch Network. Take a moment. So subscribe to Midas Touch Network. Come on over to Legal af. No paywall? No paywall. Just a subscribe button. It's free, but that helps us continue with this type of information at the intersection of law, politics, and increasingly the defense of our democracy. I'm Michael Popo. Until my next report. Can't get your fill of Legal af. Me neither. That's why we formed the Legal AF substack. Every time we mention something in a hot take, whether it's a court filing or a oral argument, come over to the substack. You'll find the court filing in the oral argument there, including a daily roundup that I do called Wait for it Morning af. What else? All the other contributors from Legal AO are there as well. We got some new reporting, we got interviews, we got ad free versions of the podcast and hot takes where Legal AF on substack. Come over now. To free subscribe.