Episode 1 - Protecting What’s Ours: Randy Newberg on the Fight for Public Lands

Summary

Legends of the Wild, A Field And Stream Production

Episode 1: Protecting What’s Ours: Randy Newberg on the Fight for Public Lands
Release Date: July 1, 2025
Host: Sam Soholt
Guest: Randy Newberg
Duration: Approximately 64 minutes

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Introduction

In the inaugural episode of Legends of the Wild, host Sam Soholt engages in a profound conversation with Randy Newberg, a passionate advocate for public lands. The episode delves deep into the ongoing battle to protect America's cherished public lands from legislative threats and explores the broader implications for conservation, hunting, and outdoor recreation.

The Importance of Public Lands

Randy Newberg emphasizes the foundational role that public lands have played in his life and the lives of countless Americans. Growing up with access to vast tracts of land fostered his love for hunting and the outdoors, shaping his commitment to preserving these natural spaces for future generations.

"If it wasn't for public land, I wouldn't have had a place to hunt in Montana."
— Randy Newberg [18:16]

Legislative Threats to Public Lands

The conversation shifts to the pressing issue of potential mandatory sell-offs of public lands. Randy details recent legislative maneuvers, particularly focusing on Senate actions that threaten to open millions of acres for sale, primarily benefiting the oil, gas, and real estate industries.

"Mike Lee has made it part of his career project to get rid of public lands."
— Randy Newberg [21:05]

Randy explains the intricate legislative process, highlighting how budget bills serve as vehicles for introducing unrelated policy changes. This tactic allows proponents of land sales to push their agendas under the guise of fiscal policy, complicating the fight against such measures.

"They start at whatever baseline and they get you to move your baseline through that mechanism."
— Randy Newberg [05:40]

Building Relationships and Advocacy

Randy underscores the importance of building relationships with congressional staffers and maintaining a nonpartisan stance to effectively advocate for public lands. His approach has been to present factual, unbiased information to garner trust and support across the political spectrum.

"Facts equal trust. Trust is our currency."
— Randy Newberg [25:10]

This strategy has been instrumental in mobilizing a broad coalition of hunters, anglers, conservationists, and outdoor enthusiasts to actively defend public lands.

The Role of Media in Conservation

Sam and Randy discuss the transformative role of media in shaping public opinion and fostering a united front against threats to public lands. Randy credits outdoor media platforms, like his own Fresh Tracks Weekly, for amplifying the conservation message and keeping the community informed and engaged.

"We've had media platforms that when the real battles came, they've said, all right, time to soldier up here."
— Randy Newberg [59:13]

Economic Implications of Public Land Sales

The episode delves into the economic ramifications of selling public lands. Randy highlights how public lands generate significant revenue through recreation and resource extraction, which, if diminished, would lead to substantial financial losses for both federal and local governments.

"Public lands contribute approximately $1 trillion a year in revenue."
— Sam Soholt [46:14]

He argues that instead of selling these lands, better management and investment could enhance their value and ensure sustainable revenue streams that benefit the entire nation.

Motivations Behind Public Land Sell-Offs

Randy and Sam explore the underlying motivations driving the push to sell public lands. They identify significant financial interests from oil, gas, and real estate industries, which stand to gain immensely from the availability of public land for development.

"Senator Lee's top donors are oil and gas and real estate."
— Randy Newberg [41:35]

This connection underscores the complex interplay between politics, money, and environmental conservation, highlighting the challenges faced by advocates in opposing well-funded opposition.

Mobilizing for Action

The discussion transitions to actionable steps listeners can take to support the fight for public lands. Randy emphasizes the power of grassroots advocacy, urging individuals to engage directly with their elected officials, form local advocacy groups, and participate in community efforts to protect public lands.

"Find what you're passionate about and do it the way you do."
— Randy Newberg [63:08]

He provides practical advice on organizing efforts, stressing that collective action, even on a small scale, can drive significant change.

The Path Forward

As the episode draws to a close, Randy and Sam reflect on the resilience of the conservation movement and the critical importance of unwavering advocacy. They express optimism that sustained efforts will continue to safeguard public lands, ensuring their preservation for generations to come.

"We have to be the ones that lived in this pretty amazing space for a long time. And now it's our turn to make sure that the next generation and the generation after that has that same opportunity."
— Sam Soholt [60:57]

Notable Quotes

• Randy Newberg [18:16]: "If it wasn't for public land, I wouldn't have had a place to hunt in Montana."

• Randy Newberg [21:05]: "Mike Lee has made it part of his career project to get rid of public lands."

• Randy Newberg [25:10]: "Facts equal trust. Trust is our currency."

• Sam Soholt [46:14]: "Public lands contribute approximately $1 trillion a year in revenue."

• Randy Newberg [63:08]: "Find what you're passionate about and do it the way you do."

• Sam Soholt [60:57]: "We have to be the ones that lived in this pretty amazing space for a long time. And now it's our turn to make sure that the next generation and the generation after that has that same opportunity."

Conclusion

Episode 1 of Legends of the Wild sets a compelling stage for ongoing discussions about the preservation of public lands. Through Randy Newberg's insights and experiences, listeners gain a clear understanding of the challenges and strategies involved in advocating for these vital natural resources. The episode serves as both an informative and inspiring call to action for anyone passionate about the outdoors and conservation.

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For more information and to stay updated on the fight for public lands, follow Randy Newberg's Fresh Tracks Weekly on YouTube and his other social media platforms.

Transcript

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[Sam Soholt]

Welcome to Legends of the Wild, the podcast where we chase the stories that live beyond the trailhead and bring the wildest tales from the backcountry straight to your ears. I'm Sam Soholt, hunter, conservationist, and a guy who believes best moments happen where the map runs out. Each week, I'll sit down with legendary outdoorsmen, women musicians, athletes, and everyday folks who've lived incredible stories in wild places. From epic hunts and big wins to close calls and quiet moments under the stars, these are the stories that keep us heading deeper into the wild and remind us why we fight to protect it. This is Legends of the Wild, presented by Field and Stream. Let's get into it or Andy. Welcome to the Legends of the Wild podcast.

[Andy]

Legends of the Wild. Yeah, you are on, Sam.

[Sam Soholt]

I. I don't claim to be, but I got to interview a lot of.

[Randy]

Them, so really, let me go and get some people out here.

[Sam Soholt]

No, you're definitely one of them because, yeah, I mean, at the very least, you have been our north star on the public lands issues since I can remember. So, I mean, I mean, one of the people that inspired me to, like, you know, well, I'll go back, but one of the people that inspired me to talk about public lands and raise awareness about public lands and do everything that I'm doing.

[Randy]

So I appreciate that.

[Andy]

I remember when you showed up to.

[Randy]

Bozeman about, I don't know, eight years.

[Andy]

Ago, 10 years ago, and you had a school bus.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Andy]

And we went out to my shop.

[Randy]

And I had an acre there big enough for you to turn that school bus around.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

We parked out there podcasted. And then we drove to Dairy Queen.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

In the bus. And then just about threw my wife off of the cooler onto the floor. I forgot about that.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

So, yeah, it's. But since then, it's been a long journey. Since then.

[Randy]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Wow.

[Randy]

You've done so many cool things with all your duck stamp stuff. All the, the, the things you've done, Sam, are very impressive.

[Sam Soholt]

Well, I appreciate that.

[Randy]

Appreciate it.

[Sam Soholt]

Well, I mean, I want to talk about several things, but right now I appreciate you just taking the time to make this happen because there's a lot going on right now when it comes to public land issues and everything happening in Congress and the Senate. It's just, it's a whirlwind of things and information out there online right now. For me, personally, I think one of the coolest things I've seen about it is the number of people that have come out of the woodwork in support of opposing this right now.

[Randy]

Right, exactly.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

And obviously, like, you raised the red flag long, like, quite a while ago now. I mean, as issues come up, you're one of the first people to always talk about this stuff, but specifically on this issue where there was a possible mandatory sell off of public lands, and I'll admittedly say, like, you know, as co owner of public landees and, you know, somebody that's talked about this for a long time, sometimes I hesitate to. To dive off the deep end immediately because, you know, like, you hate to cry wolf. Too much.

[Randy]

Too much. They. The. The audience will get fatigued.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

And the other side, I think, kind of plays that card 100%. They're like, well, we'll keep throwing this one at them. Throwing this one at them. And pretty soon the people, our audiences, our followers, but just really, the hunter angler community is like, they just get fatigued.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

And then if you talk about one that really doesn't come to reality, they're like, come on, man, don't.

[Andy]

Yeah, I only got limited time. Don't be calling us to arms here.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Andy]

If it's not a real battle.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

And so it's.

[Andy]

It's hard from our side to, to weigh that.

[Randy]

Because the thing I always worry is, well, what if one slips through and I didn't raise the alarm?

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Andy]

Which is worse?

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right?

[Andy]

Raising a false alarm or one slipping through.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

And I mean, and luckily, there's people like you that are willing to fly to Washington, D.C. and have conversations in person with senators and congressmen and women and talk these things through, because I think so Often, you know, and from, from the government's side, I just constantly see it as a sales tactic.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Sam Soholt]

It's you push a giant thing on somebody and then they say no. And they say, well, what about this? You know, it's just a classic sales tactic.

[Randy]

Yeah. The shifting baseline of where they want you to be versus so they, they start at whatever baseline and they get you to move your baseline through that.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

That mechanism. Yeah, yeah. If you would have told me in 1998, the first time I went back to D.C. on a public land thing that could end up occupying so much of my time and effort. Sam, you're crazy. What are you drinking today, man? But when I think about it now, you go there out of the passion of what you believe in and how much it means to you. And over time you build relationships. And I've been really lucky with that. Where for whatever reason, staffers and even some of the long term lobbyists who've been there a long time on the public land stuff, whether they mostly lobby from the right or mostly lobby from the left, being able to have those relationships really lowers the risk that I'm going to cry wolf falsely or that I'm going to let something slip through. And I know it's not for everybody. I know most people are just like, oh, I hate this stuff. This is. I hate politics. I don't do politics. And I'll be honest with you, I don't do politics either.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

I'm about as nonpartisan apolitical as you're going to find. But I do know our issues have been drawn into Congress, into state legislatures, and if I want to have a meaningful impact, I gotta be where the game's being played.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

And that's exhausting some days.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

Because you can make a lot of noise on social media and phone calls and all this stuff, but without the in person conversations and having lobbyists speak on behalf of our interests, nothing's going to get done. All the rules get passed in the legislature.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Sam Soholt]

So, you know, I, I was lucky. I got to learn a lot of this from my mom who was a state senator.

[Andy]

Right.

[Sam Soholt]

South Dakota.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

So I personally can't say that I right now have any political ambitions, but I'm proud to be a son of somebody who stepped up for the state of South Dakota and made a lot of changes and did a lot of stuff. So I get to have to see that from that perspective. And now going forward, like working on activism stuff and, you know, raising the flag and rallying the troops.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Sam Soholt]

You Start to understand, like, how the game actually needs to be played.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

And for anybody listening, I wish I could paint this rosy picture that the future will be less politics for hunters and anglers, but I'd be leading people astray if I said that.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

So let's. Why don't we go back a little bit?

[Andy]

Sure.

[Sam Soholt]

Because I want to talk about. Because you've been in the industry a long time now, so, I mean, the first time I learned about you was when you were doing on your own adventures.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Sam Soholt]

And I. The only reason I found out about it was because my older brother and his business partner owned a company called Gannett Ridge Hunting Equipment, and they were potentially looking for shows and people to sponsor. And so I know they had had conversations with you at one point, but that kind of, like, pulled you into my, you know, peripheral vision a little bit.

[Randy]

Yeah. It started in 2008. We ended up filming that year, and then the next year, it. It aired on Outdoor Channel. And a lot of people ask me, well, why did you. Why did you get into filming haunts? And I didn't really want to, but almost connecting back to that first trip I did in 1998 to D.C. when I came back, I remember my wife and I were talking about it, and she said, you seem like you're looking at this differently now. And I told her, I said, I am, because I realize that people who haunt the way I grew up, the way I haunt on my own and on public lands or the wildlife refuge or whatever, they don't have a voice back there. And I bumped into some people that claimed to be representing hunters who wanted less public land. And it opened my eyes that we don't have anybody speaking at least where that game is being played. We don't have people there speaking on our behalf.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

And so I went back a few times after that, and I developed. I went out of my way to build relationships with the Montana delegation.

[Guest Speaker 2]

And.

[Randy]

Then kind of got talked into doing this TV gig, and it was always about, all right, I'm not doing this because I have any aspirations, world's going to think I'm a great hunter or anything else. It's how do I build an audience that is going to be engaged, and when the time comes, they're going to be present. And that was the whole goal.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

And then I look at the last week of how many thousands and thousands of people who have got a hold of their senators and their Congress people, and it's kind of been a reflecting moment of, wow, 17 years ago when these platforms launched, it was almost like the last week has been a summary or, or an opportunity to exercise all that's went into that, and we still got so much more to do. Yeah, I, But I, I've been blessed in so many ways where, you know, I had another job as a CPA and that's what pays my bills. So I have what I think is true freedom. When you are not beholden. What you say, what you do, what you stand for, what you believe in is. Has zero financial consequence to you.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

Because if every one of my sponsors left tomorrow, it's not like I have a mortgage I'm worried about or anything like that. So there's a freedom that comes with that. And I take it very seriously from the standpoint of not a lot of people have the blessings I have. And I feel that it's almost like my civic duty to say I have a wife who understands it, who's all in support of it. I have these amazing people who work here at our office, and I have this opportunity. And so that's what I do.

[Sam Soholt]

Which is pretty incredible, you know, and it sounds like, I mean, from the start the goal was to create relatable content. I mean, I.

[Randy]

Absolutely.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

I mean, and that's, and that's really what sets people. People apart.

[Guest Speaker 2]

It's.

[Sam Soholt]

There's, you know, there's big aspirational content. But a lot of what you do is like, this is something that everybody could do.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Sam Soholt]

And I think that's why you can communicate to your audience so well. It's just simply that it's because they can put themselves in your shoes and be like, I can go sleep in the back of my truck and go hunt elk on that piece of ground.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Sam Soholt]

I mean, I can walk in there and do that.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Yeah.

[Randy]

And they see enough failures and missed shots and screwed up stocks that they're like, oh, yeah, I've done that before. And it's kind of funny, you know, outdoor tv, a lot of people may not understand the kind of the evolution of it, but you had a lot of TV people come to the outdoors. And so TV production was trying to mold hunting to fit what TV should be, Right. And TV was supposed to have this build up, this buildup and always end in a successful outcome.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

I remember in 2009, I submitted an episode, it was a Nevada archery elk hunt with my buddy Scott Jones, and didn't even release an arrow, I don't think. And I sent it to the network and they're like, you don't want to air this? I'm like, yeah, I do. They're like, no, you don't trust us? And my attorney emailed them and said, well, the contract says if we deliver.

[Andy]

This with these commercial slots, you have to air it. We bought the airtime from you.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Andy]

So they aired it and they sent me an email.

[Randy]

Kind of a cover your butt email. Like, oh, yeah, you're right. We do have to air it. But we're just telling you this is a bad idea. When the Nielsen ratings came out after that one is one of our most viewed episodes of the season.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

And I think it was to that relatable thing you're talking about.

[Sam Soholt]

Yeah, Well, I think it's. People start to. They're like, oh, they are human. You know, it's like. And, you know, you're. They. They go, well, you're not hunting a giant ranch. You know, you're not hunting easy bulls. You're not hunting, you know, a spot that nobody's hunted before.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Sam Soholt]

Yeah. So it's like, people are like, oh, I can go out there and fail too.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

Yeah, it's pretty special. Yeah.

[Randy]

So all of that was with the purpose. If you go to my whiteboard in my office, it's all about creating impactful media content to inspire people to advocate for hunting and the resources essential to such. So it's all about trying to get people to step up, speak up, and know that everyone's busy with. Right.

[Andy]

We got families and jobs and businesses and little league, and how do we.

[Randy]

Find a place or a way or help them in those small moments of time they have and give them easy ways to go and do this and to speak up, Give them the comfort that, oh, someone will listen to me. They will.

[Andy]

So it's all been.

[Randy]

It's been all about creating people advocates or giving people the inspiration to go and advocate.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

Well, based on your mission statement and everything you've done, you certainly inspired me to. You know, I mean, it's one of the reasons I built a school bus and traveled around the country just understanding that, you know, you know, like, you can just go do it, you know, and not enough people told me no.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Sam Soholt]

So you just gotta be crazy enough to make it happen. But, yeah, I think I just think back to that was. I guess it would have been 2016 is when I bought the school bus. And for. In my life, that was the first big public land fight, you know, and previous to that, I was pretty naive, you know, And I was thinking I was 29, you know, at that point and pretty naive to the game and what people might actually be trying to do. You know, I, you know, grew up in the Midwest, in the Dakotas, you know, and then when I moved to Colorado to work with my brother, the fact that you could like just go out on hundreds of thousands of acres was like, what do you mean? You can just, you know, continue to walk as I do.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

That's just open. You know, grew up hunting ducks on both public and private land. But it was always, you know, it's quarters and maybe a section and waterfall production areas and, you know, smaller parcels to us. So to have like that much room to roam and disappear for a while was pretty special.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

And that's really what opened my eyes to like, like I couldn't figure out why people would want to threaten that.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

And take that away. And so it was like, you know, first call to arms was way back when.

[Randy]

Well, you've been in the battle and you've had your shoulder to the wheel. And I, you know, it's people like you that also inspire me. Younger people get me so excited about what I get to do every day. Because I think back about when I moved to Bozeman, Montana in 1991. My wife and I hardly had enough money to pay for the trailer, you know, the U haul trailer to get here. And if it wasn't for public land, I wouldn't have had a place to hunt in Montana. And that goes even back to where I grew up in Minnesota, Northern Minnesota, Way up by the Canadian border. When my parents divorced When I was 10, I was the oldest of three, my dad had to move for work. So just when I think I'm going to be a hunter, that dream kind of disappears. But I had public land a half mile from our trailer house. I could go home from school, grab my 22 or my 410. And if I was willing to walk a half mile, I'm on public land.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

And if it weren't for those public lands, and it would have cost a dollar a day for me to hunt, my mom wouldn't have had it.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

And so when people ask me where's.

[Andy]

This missionary zeal about public lands come from?

[Randy]

Well, you and I wouldn't be here having a conversation if it weren't for those public lands I had access to as a 12 year old.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

And that. It just seems like every part of my life, the public lands have been.

[Sam Soholt]

That foundational block, kind of been that constant thread.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

Through the course of life.

[Randy]

Yeah. And so when they come under threat like they have in the last three or four months. I get kind of wound up as.

[Sam Soholt]

As everybody should and as everybody is. Yeah, why don't we talk? Why don't we take people through? I mean, you'll do a better job of it than I will, but why don't you take people through, like, kind of where this all stemmed from. Like this, you know, now we've reached a fever pitch and even had some news today. And I don't know exactly when this episode will air, but we can talk about what's happened up to this point and then maybe some things that are going to happen, like the fork in the road. Like what. What are the options going forward?

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

You know, right now, in early 2025, the president puts his budget together. Congress starts working on that budget with him. And in the House in April, House of Representatives, there was an idea about selling some public land in Nevada and Utah.

[Sam Soholt]

And that was a specified parcel.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right, Right. Okay.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

It was like 500,000 acres, 400,000 acres. And it had been identified. Well, that created a pretty big uproar. Yeah, we got it killed. I feel lucky. My congressman, Ryan Zinke, he's always said, this is my San Juan Hill. And so him and some others, Mike Simpson from Idaho, they got it tossed.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

So everyone's like, fine, I don't need.

[Andy]

To see any more of that.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

Well, then they pass their version of the budget. And those who are familiar know that the budget then goes to the Senate. And then if the Senate passes the same exact version, it goes to the President, but they never pass the same exact version. So they end up with this reconciliation process.

[Sam Soholt]

As happens in these gigantic bills, there's always. They're trying to shut down.

[Randy]

That's why they're calling this one the big beautiful bill.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

And everyone's got problems with it. No one looks at it without saying it.

[Sam Soholt]

It's not that beautiful.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

But, you know, it is what it is.

[Andy]

So the Republicans who are in charge.

[Randy]

Said, we don't want to have a big fight in the Senate.

[Andy]

So rather than go through each committee.

[Randy]

Like the House did, we're just going to let each committee chairperson do the markup for that committee, and then we'll bundle all their markups together and we'll have one vote on the Senate floor, which is very unusual.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Andy]

Usually all of the committee members, they.

[Randy]

Get to debate and argue and offer amendments to what their committee is going to put forward. Well, in the Senate, the senator in charge of the Senate Energy and Natural Resource Committee, where most public land legislation stems from. Out of the Senate is a guy named Mike Lee. Been in the Senate now. I think he's 15 years in there. And he has made it part of his career project to get rid of public lands.

[Andy]

So we knew this might be coming.

[Randy]

So I was back in D.C. in April and talking to people I have relationships with and people in delegations and they're like, well, when this gets to the Senate, you better be paying attention.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

I'm like, all right, it can't be that bad. Well, two weeks ago, on June 11, Senator Lee released his version without telling any of his other committee members, even though some of them tried to get him to tone it down.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

He's like, no, he just went full bore on it.

[Randy]

Yeah. So his end result was anywhere from, I think it's 2.2 to 3 point some million acres would be available for sale or would mandatorily have to be sold out of a total of about 250 million. That would meet the criteria. Well, that's. That just ain't going to fly.

[Sam Soholt]

No, no. I mean, when you look at the uproar around a half million acres and that was designated land, you know, that was specified surrounding Las Vegas and then some in it was northern Nevada and southern Utah.

[Randy]

Yep.

[Sam Soholt]

And so the uproar around. So, but when you. So when you put it into there, where there could be basically any land for service.

[Andy]

Blm.

[Randy]

Yeah, this. He, Senator Lee tried to, he threw a few words in there to try make it marketable by saying, oh, it's for housing.

[Andy]

Well, if you read the bill, it.

[Randy]

Just says you have to make a.

[Andy]

Case that it's for housing.

[Randy]

You have to present a case, but.

[Andy]

No one approves or disapproves with your.

[Randy]

Argument that it's for housing. Yeah, it's like the gift that his donors have been waiting for forever. Well, I read that I get on the horn with some staffers who have been there a long time. They're like, yeah, this is exactly what you're worried about. Get ahold of some attorneys, you know this stuff. And they're like, yeah. And so I actually flew back there three days later and spent four days walking around the US Senate doing my best to be a stick in the mud, I guess you'd call it. And I'm thankful for the people who help me. There's so many people who I've built relationships over time that they go out of their way to help me when I'm back there because it's a pretty intimidating place. And yeah, there's a lot of turnover. So the person who you like. Well, this person was on this staff. Well, they've moved on or.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

Left or whatever.

[Randy]

So I'm really thankful for all the people who've helped with that. And when I left that next Wednesday night, I. All I could, I was scribing down notes and typing in notes of, this is what I got to do when I get home.

[Sam Soholt]

This is.

[Randy]

This is. This is the. The thing we all worried about.

[Andy]

And here it is.

[Randy]

The guy with a big leverage bar, the chairman of this committee, intends to cram it down our throat. I gotta do something. So that's why we've been producing pretty much a video a day trying to get people to understand. You know, you take really complicated stuff and how procedure works and all the process of how legislation works. And my job is how do I take this kind of abstract, esoteric stuff and bring it down to something. The audience, the listeners, the viewers are going to be like, wait a second.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

And one thing that's become apparent to me in this, and another thing you'll see on my whiteboard is that facts equal trust. Trust is our currency. Any of us who have media platforms, if we want people to take action, they have to trust us. And I've been so careful along the way to hopefully never lead anybody astray, not get involved on this, this party or that party. Just, here are the facts. Here are the facts. And the response that we got kind of has been the validation that our efforts to not get drawn into one party or the other have resulted in people trusting us. And that's really all we can hope for.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

Well, I mean, that comes from the majority of the country being in that same place you have a vast majority of the country wants to understand the facts in the central part of the argument. Because if you're way one way or way the other way, it's just the information out there is gray at best.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

And I think Americans in general are, you know, the hunting community also has grown so distrustful.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Of.

[Randy]

Well, this shows up in my nudes feed and then I find out they just get paid clicks for doing that.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

Or from the other side. And I think when they find someone who really is working hard to try, sort it out. And that's why I need friends on both sides and friends in the middle because I'm more interested in where are the facts consistent.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

And if I can provide the consistent facts, then people, they're smart, they're going.

[Andy]

To make up, they're going to come to their own conclusion.

[Randy]

But if, if I join in with these click farms, no one's going to listen.

[Andy]

They're going to smoke me out in a minute.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yep.

[Andy]

And so that's kind of been the.

[Randy]

Whole idea behind this. And this last week has been sort of a proving ground of pressure testing to see if it's all right. Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

Are people still paying attention or is it just scrolling by?

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

And do they trust us enough that we're not gonna lead em astray? And if I look tired, Sam, when I, you know, yesterday was Monday and I came in and I hadn't slept hardly at all over the weekend because so this is moving so fast. And Marcus in our office, he's like, man, you look tired. I'm like, yeah, but we gotta do a video now. It was like seven in the morning and. But it, it's just what it requires at times. And I'm so, for me, this has been such a great week to see it. It validates my belief that I've had all the time that hunters and anglers want to do what they can for the cause of public lands, public access. But you got to give them the straight shot and you got to give.

[Andy]

Them.

[Randy]

Opportunities and places and say, here's what you do.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

And when you tell them, the calls.

[Andy]

I got from the Senate this morning were like, and anyone back here now.

[Randy]

Wants to kick that public land hornet's nest.

[Sam Soholt]

Yeah, I believe that mission accomplished. I mean, even to the point where like, like you said, it's, it's one thing to just have a call to action. You know, you can just say you need to call your reps, but we've heard that, everyone has heard that just over and over and over again. But making it so easy for people and across the industry, you know, TRCP, backcountry hunters and anglers, NWTF, you name it. Howell.org you know, and then posting the phone number everywhere because you can just call the White House. Turns out that extra little step, I think is what really changed at this time. Because even in past battles I've noticed like there may have been big email campaigns, but it was. And that was pretty easy. But I feel like this time it was because of all those previous fights, everyone was really honed in on this one. And so when this major catastrophe came up, everybody was ready to act.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

And it's, it's amazing. The, the people, like across the board, from all walks of life, from every industry, from every, I mean, you, you Name it.

[Randy]

Mountain climbers to mountain bikers to the motorheads to hunters to camp.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Randy]

Even the, the RV travel trailer industry is a statement.

[Andy]

It's like, I don't know what it's going to take to get those folks.

[Randy]

In D.C. to realize America loves its public lands.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

But I think they know that.

[Sam Soholt]

I would hope so. I wonder, you know, it's gonna be hard to quantify, but I'm curious how many, like, phone calls and emails have happened, you know, just in the last 30 days? It's a lot.

[Randy]

It's a lot.

[Sam Soholt]

I mean, even like, I mean, I've obviously called plenty of times. I've tried. I mean, I have a senator, I'm from North Dakota at this point. I move around a lot, but North Dakota resident. And so one of my senators is on the committee with Mike Lee. And so I have called him multiple times, sent multiple messages, sent, you know, just trying to be like, I understand that he put this language through without communicating this with the rest of the committee, but it's like, we are from the state that inspired our nation's public land.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

We have Teddy Roosevelt National Park. We have the Teddy Roosevelt Library going in right now. We have the grasslands coded. The grasslands. The national grasslands. Like, this is. This is the birthplace of the idea of our public land system.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

And so to like, I've been very kind but stern on all my calls just to say you need to speak up against this and I will remember if you don't, because I'm very passionate about this. So, yep, fired out.

[Randy]

That's kind of where we were as of an hour ago before you and I started setting up this studio.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

By this afternoon, by this evening when I get home, I bet you it's going to change. Because right now this is kind of. So if we get to what the fork in the road going forward could be, yesterday afternoon, Senator Lee started throwing out all kinds of new proposals. And I'm calling him, like, why are we getting so many proposals? Because he's, he knows the parliamentarian in the Senate is going to disqualify his ideas as not being budget related. And there's a process in the Senate they called the filibuster, where you can debate and debate, and then when 60 senators say, we're done debating now, we're going to have a vote. Well, once they go to vote, it only takes 51 out of the hundred.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

Well, one of the sneaker. The exception to that is if it's a budget bill, it only takes 51, they don't even have this filibuster rule for budget bills.

[Andy]

So when budget bills come, a lot of the real cunning senators are like, I'm gonna throw some policy. They're not related to the budget, but I'm gonna sneak them in there.

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[Randy]

Well, the job of the parliamentarian in this process is to look at that and apply what's called the bird rule that says if this isn't budget related.

[Andy]

It'S out of here. Get it out of here.

[Randy]

We're just voting on budget stuff. Well, last night, all of Lee's public land sale language got pulled decline by the parliamentarian. So there's a couple ways that, and I don't know, one of the ways is a vice president who is the presiding officer of the Senate can override that. And I don't know that that's ever happened in the Senate.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

Another is the Senate majority leader can lead the entire Senate to a vote to override it, which would be Senator John Thune from South Dakota. And everyone says he doesn't. He's been getting enough heat on this from other senators. He doesn't want that headache to derail a much bigger bill. The other is Senator Lee can alter his language in something that he thinks is going to comply with what the parliamentarian has said and that's what he's trying to do. Step three.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

So if he succeeds in that and tomorrow or the next day or Friday, they have a vote, we'll see if a floor amendment gets offered to strip it then.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

And maybe he can't even get the parliamentarian to agree with anything.

[Andy]

Because just a little while ago, he said, all right, instead of public lands.

[Randy]

We'Re not going to sell any Forest Service land.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

Because never before has Forest Service lands been part of a budget. The mechanisms he's trying to use, Department of Interior lands have. So he's trying to clean this up. He's out doing his sales pitch. No, this is what it's like. Come on.

[Andy]

You know, you've been trying to sell.

[Randy]

Public lands for 15 years, and now you think that we're going to believe you?

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

I mean, so when he posted, you know, he was speaking to a hunters organization, Right. It said hunter Nation. We talked. We heard you. You know, changes are being made. The skepticism across the board from. From everybody on social media and anywhere was like, yeah, no, you know, and I had posted, you know, on our pay channels just to continue to keep the message going. I posted on there, and people weren't even reading the caption of us saying, keep the heat on. Like, this is. This is not where we're compromising. This is when you turn the heat up.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Sam Soholt]

And people were commenting like, you can't trust him. You know, it was like, I understand you need to read the caption. Yeah, I should have done a better job. But, yeah. So like, immediately that was, you know, more or less thrown out by the general public. And then four hours, you know, whatever, three, four hours later, he was even changing his tune. And then I'd spend this back and forth. And right before we walked in here, it seemed like there was a lot of people that were really fired up about the parliamentarian basically stripping this from the bill. But I think what I was proud of was there was a lot of people that were like, this is a win for right now. But, like, it's not over at all. This is like somebody was like, you need to treat it like a zombie. It's not dead until it's dead.

[Randy]

Yeah. And so if we do have these forks in the road, these issues are not going away. There are people who will use every crisis they can find, whether it's the housing crisis. And I have an example of where that didn't work. When they tried it around Las Vegas through an act of Congress, they're using the budget crisis, which is the reason we have a budget crisis is because.

[Andy]

We have a Congress that refuses to do their job.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right, right.

[Andy]

That's everything that frustrates us about public lands. Congress could change everything about our financial position, situation, level of debt.

[Sam Soholt]

Congress could change.

[Andy]

Congress, yeah, that's Congress. And it's funny when I saw some.

[Randy]

Things about Senator Lee and some of.

[Andy]

His supporters said, oh, we can't have a bunch of unelected bureaucrats ruining the country. I'm like, well, you guys have the final say. Nothing can be done without you guys approving it. And if you guys do approve it, the forest ranger and the BLM officer, they got to do what you tell them. So it's convenient that you guys want to blame the bureaucrat when it's you guys.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Andy]

So this is my point is when.

[Randy]

There are crises, real or manufactured, you.

[Andy]

Have people who are going to grab.

[Randy]

Those and try to leverage it for their ulterior motives.

[Andy]

And when you have 15 years in.

[Randy]

The Senate, prior to that, politics in Utah and every anti public land bill that's come out of Congress, every lawsuit that's been filed by other groups has Senator Lee's fingerprints on it somewhere.

[Andy]

You really can't, we can't put our.

[Randy]

Guard down so long as there's somebody.

[Andy]

There willing to use the institutions of.

[Randy]

The people for the benefit of what his personal ideology is.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

And that was one question I wanted to ask is that you had any insight on where this is stemming from, like the, you know, 15 years or longer of trying to make this happen. Like, what's the, where's the motivation? Because they did a poll and even Utah doesn't want it.

[Randy]

So I know there, there's, I mean, across the United States, there's always this ideology of public lands are a problem. Public lands are unconstitutional. In fact, some guy was jousting with me this morning that federal ownership of public land is unconstitutional. Only reads one line out of the Constitution.

[Andy]

Well, you probably ought to go read all those U.S. supreme Court cases that analyze the entire Constitution.

[Randy]

They don't cherry pick your one line.

[Andy]

And every one of those cases have said it's constitutional. And if you don't believe that, why do you think Thomas Jefferson bought the largest chunk of public land ever? The guy who had a lot to.

[Randy]

Say about the U.S. constitution.

[Andy]

If this is so unconstitutional, why haven't, if it's so blatantly obvious, why haven't you guys lawyered up and got it overturned?

[Sam Soholt]

Exactly.

[Andy]

So there's this ideology there that no.

[Randy]

One wants to have to take it.

[Andy]

To the courts because they get their clock cleaned every time. So they use these.

[Randy]

Legislative, congressional mechanisms. The other part is there is a lot of money. So let's just take this bill. The, you know, the, the instance of what Senator Lee put out there, the one thing everyone's focused on Subchapter C of his, his bill, which is page 30 through 42.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

Prior to that, he is offering, he's saying, I'm going to cut oil and gas royalties on federal lands by pretty much a third.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Andy]

And that's going to cost 4 to 5 billion. Billion a year.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

Depending on what the price is. And.

[Andy]

But I, according to our budget system, I got to pay for it somewhere.

[Sam Soholt]

Oh, well, I can just sell 3 million acres.

[Andy]

And so our institutions, ever since the.

[Randy]

Case Citizens United passed the U.S. supreme Court and said there are no caps on spending and dark money in politics.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Andy]

Corporations are people too.

[Randy]

That's the motto. Some said, but so if you look, and we'll just use Senator Lee, for example, if you go to opensecrets.org and you look, you say, what are his top 10 industry donors? Oil and gas and real estate.

[Sam Soholt]

Well, there you go.

[Andy]

So who is gonna, who is gonna benefit oil and gas under his bill is going to get billions of dollars.

[Randy]

Of decrease in royalties to the U.S. treasury.

[Andy]

And his real estate people who've always wanted to have more land to develop, he's going to make them happy by selling a few million acres of public land that is real estate people.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Andy]

It's one of the few times where connecting the dots is, as a third grader could do with Google.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

Could connect these dots.

[Andy]

But it's an example of how our.

[Randy]

Issue of public land and access as it's been dropped down the priority list.

[Andy]

In D.C. the further it drops down.

[Randy]

The list, the more they look around and say, oh, that looks like a pretty good.

[Sam Soholt]

Do you think we can sneak this by?

[Andy]

Right. Yeah, let's repay some political debts with those public lands.

[Randy]

Well, that's.

[Andy]

That position on the priority list is.

[Randy]

Moving up with every phone call, with every email.

[Andy]

This is no longer going to be.

[Randy]

Viewed as the currency for repaying political debts. And one of the great things that I think will come out of this if we prevail and this bad idea goes away, Public lands access, conservation across both sides, all sides, even the middle, to this side, to that side, nobody is going to think that's a good idea.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Andy]

For a while, they don't take their lessons real well in D.C. so we.

[Randy]

Might have to remind them again in five or six years. But yeah. So that's when you ask, what is the motivation? I always struggle to say what someone's motivation is because some people just. That's their ideological belief. But you surely can connect these dots.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

And someone would say, oh, you're Making that up.

[Sam Soholt]

Anybody can go look that up.

[Andy]

Yeah, anyone can look it up.

[Randy]

And it's. We're not talking about anything real sophisticated here.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

So. So let's say, I mean, at this point, obviously where the heat is on, they're feeling the pressure, changes are being made. Let's say we get through this and we get it. The language completely stripped. There's still a lot of things that have been that are not going go our way. The royalty being decreased, all of these things. But let's say we get through this. How is there a way forward Where I have felt and I think one of my biggest frustrations is we've all were always reactive.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Sam Soholt]

And that's because it's hard to be proactive because all we want to do is hunt and fish and hike and bike and camp recreate. We don't want to be constantly thinking about this and trying to keep rolling this ball uphill.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Sam Soholt]

But is. Is there something. Is there an outlook where we are proactive instead of reactive, where we can go in and I. This is probably going to be like where some of us are going to have to become politicians and go start making some of these rules and being on the ground floor. But how do we get to the point where we're actually funding backlog and we're actually properly funding management and investing money into our nation's public lands, which will create more revenue for the country? I don't know what. I mean, the public lands, the cornerstone of it, and this was back in 2016, the number that came out was it was about $887 billion was, you know, revenue was based on public lands. And so now, I mean, here we are nine years past that. What are we looking at? We're looking at a trillion dollars a year that stems from public land use. So how can anybody look at that and go, yeah, let's just sell that off. When you have a renewable revenue source and you could market it and you could invest into it and you could have everybody that goes and spends time on those public lands have a quality experience. And we can look at proper multiple use of the public lands where you have some resource extraction, but it's done in a way where royalties are reinvested in the public, there's a lot of avenues that we can go down. How do we start to steer that shift? How do we take all this boiling water we've created and cook something with it?

[Randy]

Yeah, well, I hope that we don't go back to the old. Well, I'm over on this side and you're over on that side. When it comes to these issues, we have never made progress when we stand on opposite sides and say, well, you voted on this issue. You voted.

[Sam Soholt]

You don't get anywhere.

[Randy]

Don't get anywhere. And the privateers, if you want to call it that, in the middle are just like, oh boy. Let's make sure they keep fighting with each other. Because we know if you take that trillion dollar industry of the outdoors, it's hunters, it's mountain bikers, it's canoers, it's.

[Andy]

Back, it's, you know, people riding there side by side. It's all kinds of things.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Andy]

We have to think about how do.

[Randy]

We stay together on a path forward on some, just certain things. And I think that is going to require maturity from a lot of us who have been given platforms to lead in these spaces. Now I'll use an example right when you say how do we get better returns on our public land? One of the things missing from Senator Lee's proposal that we've been asking for.

[Andy]

For years is have you ever driven.

[Randy]

Through Yellowstone and when you paid depend, you know, the fee used to be 20 bucks and now it's more.

[Andy]

You paid more for your family to.

[Randy]

Drive through Yellowstone park than the entire hard rock mining industry has paid the.

[Andy]

Entire industry, which are a lot of foreign corporations.

[Randy]

You paid more in that 20, 30.

[Andy]

40, $50 than that entire industry has.

[Randy]

Paid for pulling gold, silver, copper out of US owned soil over the last 150 years.

[Sam Soholt]

How is that even possible? Like it, Right?

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Andy]

That's what you're after.

[Randy]

Yeah, because we have people who want.

[Andy]

To give away our public resources. And Senator Lee is a perfect example. Anytime that comes up, he kills it. He'll vote against it. And one of the recent election cycles, one of his top five donors was a mining industry. Because there's a lot of push to.

[Randy]

Say, you know, we waived their requirement to fund the abandoned mine.

[Andy]

Funds. We're not. They don't pay. They pay a zero percent royalty. I'm not kidding. People think, they think I'm kidding when I say all those gold mines, gold's at an all time high. You see them on BLM land and they don't pay a penny. But the family going through Yellowstone pays.

[Randy]

40 bucks or whatever it is. They're like, that can't be.

[Andy]

It's so out in the weeds. People are like, can't be.

[Randy]

Yeah, it is.

[Sam Soholt]

So instead of having how many? I mean, depending on the royalty, you.

[Randy]

Know, and the price of gold and the price. Yeah.

[Andy]

We're talking between what they should be.

[Randy]

Funding for paying a royalty and what they should be funding to pay for abandoned mines and cleanups. It's in the billions per year.

[Andy]

Per year.

[Sam Soholt]

This is not a like a one time shot.

[Andy]

No. Per year.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

But they are getting a really good.

[Andy]

Return on all their political donations.

[Randy]

So I just use that as an.

[Andy]

Example and I'm all about we need these minerals. Right. We need a, I'm not against mining. I'm just saying make us as consumers pay for the true cost of what it is out there.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Andy]

And why do you think foreign companies come to the US because they don't.

[Sam Soholt]

Have to pay anything.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Sam Soholt]

I mean it's a deal for them.

[Andy]

In some of these second third world countries, the government comes in and say, we're going to take half of your company. If you want to keep operating here, you're going to, we own half of.

[Randy]

Your company in the United States.

[Andy]

They pay zero. So it's things like that that I, when you ask where do we go forward with this? Well, a few billion dollars a year, serious money that helps with this backlog, that helps with some of this stuff that frustrates us. And I could go into a whole bunch of other points or places where.

[Randy]

Our federal lands are not being managed properly by Congress.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

Because they view them as a way to pay their currency for political payment.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

And I know some people are going to think I'm out to lunch, but.

[Andy]

If you put 10 of us CPAs.

[Randy]

In charge of the budgets for federal.

[Andy]

Lands, we'd have this whipped into shape in no time.

[Randy]

You give me a week and the.

[Andy]

Pan and the authority to do it.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Andy]

These public lands of America will be making a lot of money and putting it back into the treasury and no.

[Randy]

One would want to sell them.

[Andy]

And that's not because I'm a genius. Anyone who has much business acumen at.

[Randy]

All would look at that and say.

[Andy]

Why are we giving that away? Why are we, why aren't we making them pay for that?

[Sam Soholt]

Because it's just a bargaining chip at this point.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Andy]

So we got to move that up and collectively on all sides from all.

[Randy]

Activities segments on public land.

[Andy]

We got to move that up the priority list and tell Congress we're giving our stuff away.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Andy]

Manage it properly. Because the Mike Lee's of the world, they want to defund the agencies, they want to give all this stuff away and then they'll stand in front of people and say we aren't getting a very good return on our federal lands, we got to sell them.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

Well, it's. I mean, it's one of the tools that they've used over the past however many years is they continue to cut the budgets of the agencies that are supposed to manage these rats on the ground.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

And then you have. The general public would say, well, right. This forest sucks. You know, and it's because, you know, they have not been funded to actually go in and do proper fire mitigation and go and do all the things that need to be done on the lands so that we can all go and enjoy them the way they're supposed to be enjoyed.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

And so you think about how this distrust, distaste of federal land spreads in rural communities. The federal government does not pay income tax per se. They pay it through a thing on the Department of Interior. It's called pilt Payment in lieu of taxes.

[Andy]

Right. In lieu of paying you taxes, Congress.

[Randy]

Is going to appropriate this amount of money. They have a formula on the Forest Service side is called srs Secure rural schools.

[Andy]

So that's how the federal government pays.

[Randy]

Their property taxes to small towns, rural communities that school boards and others share in.

[Andy]

Well, what do the Mike Lees of the world do? They cut that approved appropriation from Congress.

[Sam Soholt]

And so, of course, you'd be angry.

[Andy]

If I'm a county commissioner, I'm pretty mad that Congress. But Congress will tell you, well, it's.

[Randy]

The blm, like it's some. Like, yeah.

[Andy]

Some abstract agency.

[Randy]

Well, then another thing that happens is Mike Lee, if his bill passes and they keep the language in, that cuts the royalty to oil and gas by billions of dollars.

[Andy]

Rural towns, rural counties and communities, there's a revenue share on federal royalties that. That within the state, and often the states have a rule, we'll share this.

[Randy]

With the counties and cities, anywhere from 25 to 50%, depending on what type.

[Andy]

Of royalty it is or whatever. So when he cuts that by. Let's say he cuts it by $4 billion a year, that's 2 billion. A billion to $2 billion coming out of local government. So those local governments have to either raise the taxes on the people living there or they go without. They just accept fewer services. So this is what Mike Lee and his friends do to try raise the level of hatred for public lands out there in rural America.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Andy]

Rather than fully fund PILT and make the federal government a responsible property owner and taxpayer and pay their share taxes, they do the opposite because that's how they help balance their budgets. And they know well it Lights a few fires out on the, you know, out in the hinterlands.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Andy]

And it's just, it's complete dishonesty when these guys get up there and say.

[Randy]

Oh well, the federal lands aren't being managed.

[Andy]

Well, if they want to look at that from a budget standpoint, I'm a cpa. A pack of lunch, pal. Because I'll be here and I'll argue with that. We'll debate that all day and you'll leave here with your hat in your hand.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right?

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Andy]

So. But how many people know that?

[Sam Soholt]

Very few.

[Randy]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

I mean, very few.

[Andy]

When you only have a 30 second.

[Randy]

Attention opportunity with people, what you and.

[Andy]

I just talked about, we spend 15 minutes talking about it.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Andy]

And so.

[Sam Soholt]

And stopping a random stranger on the street to, to give them the rundown of what's actually happening.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Sam Soholt]

They're going to look at you like you're crazy.

[Andy]

Exactly. So there's a lot of things that.

[Randy]

Are stacked against us, but the more people become aware of it, to me it starts with awareness and education. The more people will say, wait a.

[Andy]

Second, why are we doing that?

[Randy]

And it's going to take time. It took years, it took, you know.

[Andy]

70 years to get to where we are. It's going to take years to dig.

[Randy]

Out of this and turn it around. But we have to, we can't give the opportunity to the privateers to sell our public lands.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

And I think, you know, like one of the things that has been continually on my radar is the language that people in the government use when it comes to federal land. And they constantly try to say that the government owns, the government owns, the government owns. And that couldn't be further from the truth. So the government is supposed to be the steward of the land. But if you listening to this, whether you hunt, fish, hike, camp, bike, meditate, I don't care what you do as long as it's legal out on public lines, you are an owner, you are a beneficiary of the public land system. And I think that's one thing, like just over the years of talking about public lands and raising awareness and raising money and all this stuff is you have to constantly beat people over the head with that because it's easy to listen to propaganda where it's like, oh, the federal government, you know, shouldn't own this.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Sam Soholt]

You know, and they don't. So I think people need to remember that over and over and over again.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

I mean, the groups who want to get rid of public land, they really got shellacked hard. In the 80s and early 90s, they.

[Andy]

Retreated and they built, I call it.

[Randy]

The 50 year plan to rid Americans of their public land. They started on messaging. They have a lot of paid lobby.

[Andy]

Groups and PACs and other groups.

[Randy]

They're 30 years into their 50 year plan and they've made a lot of progress of things like you just mentioned. Right. Getting Americans to hate their government, getting Americans to hate their public land, all.

[Andy]

Their liability, that's all been orchestrated and funded. And here we are, as the just average Joel Jane citizen saying, wait a second, this is where. This is our annual family fishing trip or vacation.

[Randy]

And I'm, I'm not going down without a fight.

[Andy]

Absolutely.

[Randy]

You know, if this ship's going down.

[Andy]

I'm going down with it, but I ain't going down without a fight.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Randy]

And I think that's the beauty of it is we have the American institutions of freedom that come from that. We have liberty, we have, we have so many American values that are expressed in us all having something, some place that if they think they're going to pry it from us without a fight, I think in the last week they're like, I don't know if that, that fight might not be worth it.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

Well, I mean, public land is literally the common ground that we all share.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Sam Soholt]

So it's a, I think it's an easy thing for people to rally behind when, you know, and the crazy thing to me is how much other noise there has been. And so as people, and, you know, people online, people, whatever, have come in and started to talk about this, a lot of them have said, you know, something you're probably not even hearing about. And it's because there's so much other noise on the outskirts and it's easy to get distracted by everything else that's going on.

[Randy]

I appreciate all you doing at sam. I appreciate groups like Field in the Stream being interested in it. You know, that's one of the things that has always helped the conservation world is we've had media platforms that when the, the real battles came, they've said, all right, time to. Time to soldier up here.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

And, and be present.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

And that means a lot. And if, if anyone out there doubts that the history of what the outdoor media has done, I mean, George Bird Grinnell was the original editor of this publication when it was Forrest and Stream. There would not be a Yellowstone park if not for George Bird Grinnell being the editor of Forest and Stream. There would not have been a duck stamp if not for our media, our outdoor Media advocating there wouldn't be a Pittman Robertson act where we fund our state wildlife agencies. So I look at today and yeah, it's different. It's social media, it's digital, it's everything else. But we still have not just a role but a responsibility to carry on that tradition of the Grinnells, of the Ding Darlings, of those people who, anyone who doesn't know who they are, I suggest go look it up. There's fascinating books about what they did. They did it against overwhelming odds and we are the beneficiaries of all that work they did, all the risks they took and here we are.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

And I think now it's time.

[Randy]

That's one for us to do it.

[Sam Soholt]

Exactly. And that's one thing to make sure people understand is that when, when people like that stepped up and put these things in place, it was not popular. No, not at all. No. It was fought hard against. So it's.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

And we're just, we got to be the ones that lived in this, you know, pretty amazing space for a long time.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Sam Soholt]

And now it's our turn to make sure that the next generation and the generation after that has that same opportunity.

[Randy]

Absolutely.

[Sam Soholt]

So before we kind of wrap this up and you know, we've talked a lot about, I think people have a. Will have a way better understanding of what's going on. I always like to help people understand how they can get involved.

[Guest Speaker 2]

Right.

[Sam Soholt]

Maybe run just through top three, four things where people can evolve. Speak up. And then, you know, obviously in the show, notes of this and everything, we'll kind of give updates of where we're at when this episode drops.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

You know, there's always people feel like they're sitting in ninth grade civics class again. But what we've seen the last week, staying engaged with your elected officials, maybe it's your county commissioner who has a relationship with your senator or your congressperson.

[Andy]

The other part that I think sometimes.

[Randy]

Gets lost in the possibilities is if you have 5, 7, 10 common minded people in a county or a city who want to form a little group because they want to see a new fishing access site or they don't want to see a wetland converted to a shopping mall because that's where all the kids go. You know, don't underestimate how effective you can be. A small group of people who are persistent, informed, professional. There are so many ways. Maybe someone's just like, you know, I'm not a membership person, I'm not a group person. I'm kind of A solo.

[Andy]

And we got a lot of those.

[Randy]

In the hunting space. You know what, maybe it's just writing letters.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yep.

[Randy]

Maybe it is sending emails, making phone calls. Or maybe it's out volunteering for a.

[Andy]

Project and you, you kind of do.

[Randy]

It your own part of the project. So there's no shortage of places where people can do it. But talking about it on Facebook or Instagram or complaining about it down at.

[Sam Soholt]

The coffee shop, that doesn't get a lot done.

[Randy]

You are wasting your time there.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

But you can make a difference and that's the whole idea. However, whatever works for you. Do you?

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Andy]

Find what you're passionate about and do.

[Randy]

It the way you do it. But just make sure you're giving something back because we've all received so much. If everybody gives back just a little bit, that next generation and that next generation gonna enjoy what we've had.

[Sam Soholt]

I would say right there is a perfect place to end it as a very. I feel, I'm feeling fired up, I'm feeling inspired. Anybody watching this or listening to this, make sure you go follow along with Randy and his whole crew. They do an amazing job every week. I mean obviously daily, the last wish or two, but Fresh Tracks weekly is an amazing source of information.

[Randy]

Find that on YouTube.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yep.

[Sam Soholt]

All of your stuff is on YouTube, Chris. And yeah.

[Randy]

And the normal social media platforms, you know. And so I just appreciate fielding the stream, putting Sam out there on the, on the trail telling stories and raising awareness.

[Sam Soholt]

We're going to have some fun with this. Yeah. The, the next time we get you back on, we'll tell more hunting stories and talk, we'll tell more past stories about how you got involved. But this, the important thing on this one was letting people understand what's going on and what they can do to what they can do about it. So thanks again for joining me and I'm appreciate it. Yeah, I'm just happy to be in Montana spending a little time with you.

[Guest Speaker 1]

Yeah.

[Randy]

Well, thanks for all you do, Sam. Really appreciate it.

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