← Legends of the Wild, A Field And Stream Production | Hunting, Fishing and the Outdoors
Legends of the Wild, A Field And Stream Production | Hunting, Fishing and the Outdoors
Episode 11 - Inside the Art of the Hunt: Ryan Kirby on Whitetails, Field & Stream, and Legacy
00:52:59
When Field & Stream brought its legendary magazine back to life, they turned to one artist to set the tone - Ryan Kirby. In this episode, host Sam Soholt sits down with Kirby to unpack the story behind the revival cover and explore how fine art, hunting heritage, and conservation collide in his work.
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- [00:02]
A
This is Legends of the Wild presented by Field and Stream. Let's get into it. Hey, everybody. We are back for another episode of Legends in the Wild, and I am pretty jacked because today we have Ryan Kirby of Ryan Kirby Art. I was trying to think of who would be a good guest for this time of year, since we are, we're recording this on Halloween and both of us should be hunting, but we tend to. I think both of us have the problem that we both say yes to too many things. And now it's midday Halloween when there's probably deer cruising out there. And we're sitting down to record this podcast to talk to all of you about deer hunting and all sorts of stuff. So, Ryan, thanks for hopping on with me.
- [00:50]
B
Yeah, man, this is awesome. Like you said, I really wish I was in a deer stand, but I. We. We had like a crazy weather cold front come through and last night was perfect. And I'm like, tied up at work because I want to go deer hunting Illinois next week. So it's like, oh, making sacrifices now and kids and all that stuff.
- [01:08]
A
Yeah, well, that's just. That's all there is to it. You know, it's like I'm a new dad as of last year, so like, you know, my daughter is 14 months old and so going. And then last year I'd hurt myself, so I was like, it had an excuse to be home all the time in addition to having a kid. But. But this year I've been trying to really balance that. Like, okay, I have to be home to get all of my work stuff done, but also be a good dad and a husband and take care of all the things that need to be done at home. So that way when I do leave, which I'm gonna be in about 48 hours, as of recording this, I am taken off and heading to deer camp with family. We do it every year. And I'm just like trying to find that line where, like, I get all the things that I need done done. But then that way when I'm out in the field, I'm not like, oh, man, I should have got that done when I was at home. Yeah.
- [02:00]
B
And for those of you listening, he actually looked at his watch. I think he is at 48 hours. That wasn't just like a generalized two day term. Like that is. It might be 48 hours and seven minutes, right?
- [02:11]
A
Yeah, we're pretty close. I'm gonna be doing my best, doing my best to bail out on Sunday at some point to get down and meet up with the Crew and. And then we're spending five days in the woods together, so. Yeah, I'm jacked.
- [02:24]
B
Yeah.
- [02:24]
A
Yeah.
- [02:24]
B
That's awesome, man.
- [02:25]
A
Yeah. So, Ryan, I mean, when I was. Again, when I was thinking about having people on this podcast, I was like, well, we gotta have Kirby on, because when field and stream kind of went to the wayside. Right. First went all digital, and then, you know, more or less just got. Was sold off and now revived. Right? Yep. So I was fired up that you got to do the first cover of the revival. So we're going to talk about all sorts of stuff, but why don't you dive into that and just talk about, like. Because it kind of was a. I've got the copy right here. I'm going to hold it up in front of the screen.
- [03:00]
B
Yeah, man.
- [03:01]
A
So I know people listening to this can't see it, but it's a guy in a trout stream and a trout jumping kind of in the foreground, and then the fisherman in the back. But then on the back you have the April 1938 cover, which is kind of a similar, like, rundown. So why don't you go through, like, just, like, how that all came about?
- [03:22]
B
Well, they. They had reached out, and I was just as surprised as anybody. Like, a lot. You know, a lot of times in. Especially when you're an artist or a designer or creative person, like, you. Like, I. I started my career at the Turkey Federation, like, laying out magazines, and you typically are working months ahead of the release, and then you're already onto the next issue by the time it comes out. So when. When a magazine comes out, like, if you've done a cover, everybody's like, oh, man, that's so awesome. And you're like, dude, I have looked at this thing so many times. I'm so tired of it. I'm already onto the next one. But I guess now I'm more of an outsider to this. And I was just as surprised as anybody that they had. They were bringing the magazine back, and Colin reached out and wanted me to do the first cover, which I was like, dude, that is awesome. Like, yes, I do say yes to too many things, but I can't pass that up. You know what I'm saying?
- [04:14]
A
No, definitely not.
- [04:16]
B
And it's cool because I was born in 82, I'm 43 now, and so I absolutely remember the days when art was a part of covers, like in the. In the 80s. And then, you know, modern photography, digital photography got so good, you just. They started going to photos all the time. Because you can do them faster. You have more access to photos. When we do a cover, it's a very planned deal. You plan the layout, you do all that stuff. It might take a week to execute. And so it's a, It's a slower process. And so I can totally see why they went to photography and there's great photographers out there, but also love it when they come back to kind of the old school stuff because there's a. There's an old school vibe that you just can't get from a photo.
- [05:04]
A
Right.
- [05:05]
B
So with these, they had the idea of doing. And this is a huge props to Field and Stream. But for people that don't know, you know, most magazines are driven by ad revenue, advertising revenue, and that back cover is the most expensive one. The back cover, inside, front, inside, back are the most, most often seen covers because everybody sees the back of the magazine or the table of contents. Not everybody reads the whole thing through. So for them to forego the advertising revenue for the back cover to do something cool was awesome. You know, so they wanted to run, they wanted to pick an old historic cover that they love to run on the back. And then I would paint the front in sort of a modern style. So obviously, like the gear for the hunters and fishermen is updated, but it's kind of the same general vibe. Sure.
- [05:59]
A
Yeah.
- [06:00]
B
So I thought that was cool. They handled it really well and I thought that was a pretty cool way for them to do it.
- [06:05]
A
Yeah. And I think, I mean, one of the coolest things I thought, you know, like when they decided to bring the magazine back, I was super excited that they didn't just go the general magazine route because, you know, by not having a monthly issue, you know, it's able. It's more of like a coffee table book than anything because the print quality is super high. You know, the photos, the stories, like they can really cherry pick how they put the whole thing together rather than just like, okay, we need another, you know, we need to fill this many pages with ads and stories and whatever every single month. So just doing that two episodes or two issues a year is pretty sweet.
- [06:45]
B
Yeah, yeah, Those suckers are fat, man. They're thick.
- [06:48]
A
Yeah, they are. I don't know how many pages. This first one is 160 pages on this first issue. And, you know, they're all about the same size, but yeah, very, very cool and just, you know, excited to be part of the brand now.
- [07:01]
B
Oh, yeah, man. And I mean, their apparel, some of their merch, they're doing it right. And you know, we saw the gradual, like, slow death of print. And as that's happening, everybody's trying to make a buck. They're selling all kinds of sponsors. They're going to cheap stock photos. They're, you know, just more generic. But we're just trying to churn as much as we can for as cheap as we can. And I understand it because they've got to hang on and people aren't reading as much print. But it was cool to see Phil and Stream kind of buck that trend and say, no, we're gonna, we're gonna hire really good writers. We're gonna pay illustrators to do really cool stuff in the inside the covers. We're gonna make a big, fat, thick, well, printed book. And, and we're going to do it right. Which, which is to be, in a weird, ironic way is probably the way to survive by going all in on great quality, you know.
- [07:59]
A
Right.
- [07:59]
B
So, yeah.
- [08:01]
A
So yeah, I mean, if you develop a good product, people tend to want to see that.
- [08:05]
B
Yeah.
- [08:05]
A
And. Or, you know, be a member of that, of that club. So.
- [08:09]
B
And they obviously chose the best podcast talent. Well. And have really cheap guests.
- [08:16]
A
Well, I appreciate that. I don't appreciate the cheap guest comment, but.
- [08:21]
B
Yeah.
- [08:22]
A
So why don't you. I, I mean, I'd love to know more about kind of how you came up and got into all this stuff. So why don't you just dive into where, like where you grew up and then where all of this passion for the art came from.
- [08:36]
B
Yeah, man. Yeah. So I grew up in a little town, Hamilton, Illinois, on the, on the border of Iowa. And you know, man, I was just a, I was a farm kid, like through and through. Ever. When you're an artist, people think that, like, light shone down from heaven and you were ordained with artistic ability. It's like, no, dude, I just. I had a really good middle school and high school art teacher that taught the fundamentals. I had a really good. I had good hand. Eye coordination. You know, I played sports all the time and, and kind of had that knack and then the certain drive of perfectionist, meticulous, wanting to get things right and being able to kind of understand how shapes and patterns worked in my brain. That was kind of a culmination of everything. And, you know, it's. I don't know what the mix of talent versus learned skills is, but there's a certain amount of natural ability and then you've got to learn and you've got to have the drive to get better. Like I said, my high School art teacher was really good. And then, you know, when you're a kid, you draw and paint things that you think are cool. And I thought deer and turkeys and ducks and stuff like that was cool. And so naturally that was kind of the progression of me into wildlife art. And then when I was in high school, I won the junior duck stamp contest, which. Yeah, we'll just unpack that real quick. For people that don't know they have a federal contest, and I've got some pretty cool stories around that one, but they have a federal contest. It's the big premier thing. You've seen documentaries on it. And that the art for that one determines what's on your duck stamp that you buy when you, when you duck hunt your license. And that's a big revenue generator for the U.S. fish and Wildlife Service for conservation. And that, that is one of the coolest blends of art and conservation that we have that spans generations. I don't even know when they started it, but it was.
- [10:36]
A
Might have been the 40s, started in 1934. Yeah. And then we actually had Adam Grimm, who was the winner of this stamp for this year on the podcast to talk all about it and do you know that whole thing. So anybody who's listened to this like, has a, has a full education on the federal duck stamp for sure.
- [10:54]
B
Shameless plug. Go listen to the next one.
- [10:56]
A
Yeah.
- [10:57]
B
Because half of what I'm going to say is probably going to be wrong. But anyway, it, but they, they, they had a junior stamp. I'm sure Adam would have, would have won the junior too when he was at high school.
- [11:08]
A
Oh yeah.
- [11:09]
B
But I won the state contest when I was a freshman, sophomore, junior. And then when I was a junior, when I was 16, I won the national contest. That would have been 99. And as a. So you're a minor. So I don't know what the winnings total now, but when I won the junior, Jim Hoatman has won his second or third time.
- [11:34]
A
Yep.
- [11:34]
B
And they projected the, the, the earnings was 1.5 million projected revenue for the artist in the year.
- [11:41]
A
Yeah, right.
- [11:42]
B
I think it's dropped significantly. But dude, back in those days it was, it was a career maker to win the, to win the duck stamp contest big time. And the Hoeman brothers were like in their prime, dude. They were just, yeah, banging them out every year. So, so my family and I got an all expenses paid trip to D.C. and Jim Hoan was the winner of the federal that year. So I got to like sign autographs with him and Go to stuff. And there these people are lining up for his autograph. I was just the high school kid that was in line before and they politely got mine, you know. But that was a really cool experience because I got to see art as a career and the potential of doing things bigger than small town Midwest, you know, I mean, yeah, where I grew up, you, you, you go work for the post office or the water plant or you grow corn and that's kind of it. And I had no concept of, of art as a career at all. And that kind of put me on the map locally. I started painting guys bird dogs. We'd go shoot trap every Thursday night. And after the round, guys would start drinking beer and telling stories about their bird dogs, you know. And I was 16 and they, they would bring in like 5x7 glossy printouts from Walmart of their bird dog on point and they would hire me to go paint those for them. And so I did a few of those in high school. And so my high school job, I bailed hay and, and painted bird dogs. That was like what I did for a living. And, and it was cool. So I was, you know, I was running editions of prints when I was 16 years old and I had to keep a ledger of sales and then pay a royalty back to the U.S. mission Wildlife Service. So sure that that was my first little, I guess, vision of art as a potential career for me. Yeah, I went to college, I was going to be an engineer and I ended up studying graphic design and multimedia. And then I answered a classified ad in the back of Turkey Call magazine as they, they were looking for a graphic designer and they're in Edgefield, South Carolina. And so I put in my resume and I used to donate a bunch of art to the state chapters and stuff. So I had like a letter of recommendation from the state chapter president of the Turkey Fed. And then I had the fine art, the illustration and the technical design ability. So it was a really good fit. So my first job was with the Turkey Federation.
- [14:15]
A
Yeah, well, what a cool, I mean like going back to the Junior Duck stamp. Like what a cool way to have your eyes open to like even the possibility of turning it into something more than just like something you did on the side. Like, I mean, especially like not, I guess not pre Internet obviously, but like not. I mean it was kind of like. Yeah, yeah, it was like right in there, you know, I mean people like now like you can do everything on the Internet, but like it was not that long ago where other than like word of mouth or like you said, classified ads. Or like try these different avenues. Like the, if you look at it as like a brain right now, like the, the number of neural pathways, like, of connections to different people like across the world is basically infinite. But this would have been like back when there was like six connections, like if you knew, you know, you know, so if you did know somebody, like that was the one neural pathway and then you had this other one, you could go this direction and then you might branch out and meet a few more people. But man, it was what a cool to have the drive to actually like enter into the different contests, you know, and then win it and then get to go see guys like the Houtman Brothers, you know, who were, you know, the, the whole Million Dollar Duck documentary was kind of based on that. As far as like, if you want it, you became a millionaire. And like you said, that number dropped way down. But I mean, I just, you know, being a young kid like that and seeing the different opportunities, it's, you know, it's just, that's just like one small decision that turns the whole course of your life. That's pretty cool.
- [15:49]
B
Yeah. And I, I had to get out of small town to kind of broaden my horizons career wise. But it, like, for example, the, the federal contest was on November 4th, and it was my senior year in high school and I was pissed that I was not deer hunting and I had to go to Washington D.C. you know, and fly there.
- [16:08]
A
Believe me, I understand that.
- [16:09]
B
Stupid. So dumb, you know. Yeah, and, but it was cool, man. It was a really great experience. We, we got all, we got like VIP tours of the, the monuments in D.C. so we got to see all that. It was a really cool deal. And I, you're talking about the, the Internet back in those days. I'll never forget. You get a bunch of souvenirs and swag bags and stuff like that from all the. Because the, you know, they made prints and posters and knives and all kinds of stuff from the duck stamp. And so they, they gifted me this like 8 inch long hunting knife that was engraved with the duck stamp deal. And we didn't want to put it in our bags because we thought it would be damaged. So we carried it onto the plane. And I remember, I remember going through security and people like, what is this? And they're like, well, it's just, you know, it's a collector knife. We were up here for this and that and the other. And they gave us this and like, okay, and let us go on through. So we like Flew home with a hunting knife, like in a, in a, in a, you know, wood box. And you know, a few years later, 9, 11 happened. And that'll be a story I can.
- [17:19]
A
Tell grandkids, like, yeah, flew with knives on the plane. Yeah, yeah. Now I only fly with knives if it's accidental. You know, if they miss it at tsa, you know, has that happened?
- [17:30]
B
Did they miss it?
- [17:31]
A
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yep. I flew with a knife in my, I had just this like, you know, little two and a half inch, like little flip blade thing. It's like a little whatever, everyday carry knife. And I had thrown it in my toiletry kit when I had gone on a trip. And it was in my check bag and then I must have moved it to my, like, computer bag or whatever completely, so they missed that. Uh, there was one time I, I had just gone on a turkey hunt and I was about to go through security and I was just like, I was checking my water bottle pocket on my pack and I had like a handful of shotgun shells in my side pocket and I, I kept, I didn't pull them out of the, the bag. I just turned to the security lady and I said, I just found a handful of shotgun shells in my hunting backpack. What do you want me to do with them? And she, she goes, she just nods at the trash can and I just like set them in calmly. And she goes, you just saved us all a lot of time.
- [18:28]
B
Were they TSS?
- [18:30]
A
I was like, yeah, so, you know, $50 where the shells. But it was still worth, you know, not getting arrested and missing my flight in Denver.
- [18:38]
B
Yeah, yeah. But so I went to, I painted for a yeti event in New York, and it was literally a fly in one night, or fly in that day, paint live at an event and then fly home. Paul Puckett was up there with me.
- [18:55]
A
Okay.
- [18:55]
B
And another artist, I couldn't remember who they were, but, you know, live painting, I get asked to do that every now and then. I do it some events and you're kind of just like the cocktail entertainment, like. Yeah, no, nobody really pays attention. You're just, oh, they have an artist over there painting. That's cool. And they get back to their conversation. But they flew us up there and I didn't want to carry all my checked bags and all that kind of stuff. And I, I, you're probably the same way. I like to run lean and mean, man. I'll do a week long trip with a carry on. So I had all of my paint and I paint in oils, which is really Messy. And at the time, I had a stick that had a turkey foot on it, and it had a big Osceola spur. And what I did with that, I use it to steady my hand. And so the. The turkey foot and the spur is attached to the end of the stick, and I lay it up there and hook it over my easel and then steady my hand. And, dude, I got to tsa. And I never thought about this ahead of time, but I'm like, I was trying to explain to this massive dude that looked like a bouncer what I'm doing. He'd never turkey hunted, never seen it before. And you pull this out, and it looks like a claw. It looks like a shank you would make in prison yourself on the end of a stick. And I'm like, well, you know, I turkey hunt and I'm a wildlife artist, and I'm going to paint at a bar in New York. And they hired me. And it's. He's just like, dude, at least try to make up a believable story. This is garbage. But he let me fly with it. But I have these big, like, 72 milliliter paint tubes and.
- [20:34]
A
Oh, and.
- [20:35]
B
And I buy my primary colors in those big ones and the smaller colors and small ones. Well, I just throwing a bunch of them in there. And he's like, dude, this is over 8 ounces or whatever.
- [20:46]
A
Yeah.
- [20:46]
B
I was like, can I just go squeeze them out in the bathroom, like to half size? He's like, yeah, go ahead. So kind of like you. Some of that. Some of the pigments, it's really weird, but some of the pigments are really rare. So you may have. One tube of paint costs eight bucks, and the next one, the same size, costs 42, because the cobalt blue pigment is mined in India or whatever, and it costs way more. So I'm squeezing out this really nice, expensive oil paint in the trash can at the airport. And I'm like, oh, should have planned a little bit better.
- [21:19]
A
If only I just checked a bag. Which is simplified, this whole process. Oh, man. So, you know, one question I've had about, well, I mean, we can go back. You can keep telling your story about, but you kind of like dove into, like, how it led to there. But you've done so many different things. And, you know, I love. I love all the art, but, like, the white that it's almost the rut. So I'm thinking about deer right now. So I've often wondered where, like, do you work mostly off of, like, a reference photo. And then so you have these amazing photos of deer, you know, either doing scrapes and, like, the paintings of deer scrapes or rubs or, like, all of these things. Where are you getting these reference photos? Like, how much time are you spending behind the camera? Or you. Do you work with other photographers? Like, where does all this? Like, I've spent a lot of time in the woods and, like, as a photographer. And, like, I don't have the photos. I'm also not a wildlife photographer, so I will say that, but I feel like I've spent a lot of time in the woods, and, like, I've hardly ever seen enough of that to capture it. So, like, where are you getting all this awesome imagery to then work off of?
- [22:30]
B
There's. That's a really good question. And I almost always work with reference with a wildlife artist or a wildlife photographer or, man, even stock photos are getting good enough. And there's enough people that go to, you know, parks and Yellowstone and upload to stock. But I like to work with. With professional wildlife photographers. There's usually two ways that I get hit with a painting idea, and the first is I see a scene and imagine the. The wildlife in it, the deer or the turkey. It happens a lot with turkey hunting because you're always at eye level with your game, and so you. You constantly see the woods in the same frame of mind and angles and size that I would paint app.
- [23:14]
A
Sure.
- [23:15]
B
If you're in a deer stand, you don't always see that.
- [23:18]
A
Yeah. A lot of times you're looking down. Yeah.
- [23:21]
B
So I'm. I. I'm not as dedicated to my career to go take landscape photos on day one of a hunt. But if I tag out, I will absolutely get up at sunrise and go trump around the woods and screw everything up to get, you know, to get the right photos. But until then, I'm like, man, I don't want to walk around there, booger it up. But I'll see a scene. And we've all been there. We've all seen a scene. You know, maybe you're on the Milk river in Montana. It's like, oh, the sunlight's awesome, and the alfalfa is green, and I can just see deer in this corner of the field. You can just picture it in your mind. Yeah. And I'm the same way. I'll see that scene. Like, man, I want to paint a buck chasing a dough in front of this fall foliage here. So that's one way. And I will. Honestly, man, I take an iPhone and I'll take the photos of the Scene and I can get good enough on an iPhone to bring it back to my studio. Or I'll carry a DSLR with me and then I will work with a photographer to say, hey, you know, I've worked with Don Jones, Tess Jolly, a variety of them. And I'll look and say, hey, I want an angle of a buck making a scrape like this. Do you have anything like that? Or I'll look at their website, maybe find it and reach out. I'll pay them for it. And then I will photoshop that deer into that scene the way that I want it. You'll have to adjust things and, and at that point, that's when I've got to earn my keep. You know, like the lighting might not be the same angle, so I have to mentally, in my head, put the highlights on the other side of the neck or something like that. The other way is sometimes I just see a pose of an animal that I think is really cool. Like, man, I watched this buck jump over a fence like this. It's burned into my memory. I might rely on some reference photos for it. Or I may do like a Frankenstein image from a bunch of different photos to recreate what I want. And then I have to paint that in a way that's believable as a single animal type deal.
- [25:31]
A
Yeah. Something that actually looks like a movement a deer or turkey or whatever would make. Yeah.
- [25:35]
B
But just like anything, it takes a lot of experience. I never feel like I hunt as much as I'd like to or should, you know, and, but time in the woods, you've got to understand what the, you know, what, what we hunt obviously looks different in the breeding season. And we always paint them in the breeding season when they're in peak, especially waterfowl and whitetails. You want a big swollen neck ready for the rut. And so we tend to paint animals in their breeding season, which also coincides with hunting season. And you need to know what that looks like because my core audience is hunters. And you're never going to, if you don't authentically know what that scene looks like. You're not going to be able to paint in the way where it's believable to a hunter.
- [26:24]
A
Yeah. I mean, if you've got a, you know, like a skinny summer whitetail making a, you know, making a rub on a fence post or whatever without the swollen neck and all the stuff. Like it's, you know, people be like, that's, that's a very strange looking deer.
- [26:36]
B
Yeah. And even if you don't Know what's wrong with it? Subconsciously, people know that's just something about that's not quite right.
- [26:44]
A
Yeah.
- [26:45]
B
Like, my biggest pet peeve with artists is the deer family, the buck and the doe in the fawn. And anybody that knows anything about deer hunting knows that that doesn't happen. You know, like.
- [26:54]
A
Right.
- [26:54]
B
Bucks are the biggest deadbeat dads you've ever met in your life. They don't. They don't coach T ball.
- [26:59]
A
No, they.
- [27:00]
B
Yeah.
- [27:00]
A
I mean, they do their thing in the fall, and they breed, and then they go hang out with their boys. The rest. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [27:07]
B
Just.
- [27:08]
A
Just big bachelor groups. And then, you know, when the testosterone hits, they all get mad at each other, and then they go do the thing.
- [27:15]
B
But I remember seeing a painting. I can't remember the guy's name, and I wouldn't even share it if I. If I was, because I don't want to rip on him, but he. He was an amazing watercolor artist, but he didn't really understand hunting. And he tried to do a hunting scene, and it's a velvet buck, a doe, and a fawn. He's got heart antlers, and there's, like, spring flowers everywhere, like late May, early June. And it's. Everything about it is biologically messed up. But it was very well done. You know, the art was. And it's like, dude, you just can't. You can't pull that off on hunters.
- [27:55]
A
Yeah. It'd be like something you saw in a dream.
- [27:57]
B
Yeah. What does that mean?
- [28:01]
A
You know, the other cool thing that you've done well, that I really like, and I should have them hanging back here, but this. The. The house here, we had it as an Airbnb, and I finally, like, started hanging up some of my. Like, I've got the ducks in the background and. But I had all of your art in my office at our last place that we lived, and I need to get it back out and hang it up now that we're going to be here for a little while and. But one of the. I love the, like, the families that you've done or, like, the, like, the aging chart for whitetail and then, like, all the different turkey subspecies. Was that. Is that something that you came up with, like, the. The idea for, like.
- [28:38]
B
Yeah. Well, so going back to my background at the Turkey Fed, I. I learned a lot about layout, about, you know, print production, about illustration, about, you know, type and infographics and all that kind of stuff. And I worked there for about seven years, and then I was. I started taking on a bunch of freelance work. And pretty soon it got to the point where, um, you know, if I didn't go out and freelance, I was just never going to do it. Like, there's always a million reasons why you, you can't leave your job and start your own thing. And we all always.
- [29:15]
A
Yep.
- [29:16]
B
But I went out and started my own doing freelance and, and as a, a graphic designer or an illustrator or even a fine artist, you are a communicator. Like you're trying to convey an emotion or information or you're trying to move people or sway people or inform people or entertain them. And a lot of what I did, I went on and I worked for Winchester and Browning and a bunch of companies in the outdoor industry doing their print advertising. So they'd ship in product, I'd hire a photographer, I'd art direct the photo shoots, combine them with type and all that kind of stuff. And you. So as I'm going and learning all that stuff, there's kind of a, like a melting pot of graphic design information, fine art that I'm, I'm always involved in. And I was never, you know, you have graphic designers that are like, someone needs to send me the photos and the copy and I'll put them together and make them look pretty. And I was always the guy that had, you know, bigger ideas. I would write my own copy, I would. And pitch that to the client. I would take my own photos or illustrate it. And I always kind of had that drive of combining all that stuff and not isolating myself to just one aspect of, of layout or art, if that makes sense. So all that kind of marinated and I had probably done. I think I've worked for myself for 14 years now. And the first few years of that were really heavy on client work. And I would paint just on the side when, you know, the phone wasn't ringing. So anyway, all that's kind of marinating for a period of time. And I was at a licensing show in High Point, North Carolina, and I had a licensee there that I was going to meet. And they have all kinds of furniture and home decor stuff. And they had this big print of butterflies, like a full color thing, and it was two scale and they had little information on them. And I was like, man, that is super cool. I wonder if there's something I could do in that realm for, for, for deer, duck, turkey, elk, something like that. And I had the idea for the, the waterfowl flyways where I sketched all the ducks heads and then did an Action shot. And then the way those work is, I have the idea, the overall idea. I'll spend a couple weeks just doing research, lining up facts and figures, writing the copy, researching it. And then once I have a solid concept, I'll kind of lay out a plan to execute all the art. And then I hired a designer that I really liked, his style. I mean, I'm a designer and I'm hiring this stuff out to put it all together, and then I'll review it. I'll get with biologists at Ducks Unlimited or Deer association or something like that and kind of revise it and, and take it from there. And then we print it and sell them on a website. So.
- [32:11]
A
Yeah, well, it's super cool. I can't even imagine. I mean, I have the, like the central flyway print from you, and I can't even imagine the amount of work that went into doing all four flyaways and then having to sketch, you know, those. All of the different ducks, like, for. For each flyway. And I would. I would imagine. Were you doing the sketch and then, like, obviously there's like, crossover.
- [32:34]
B
Yeah.
- [32:34]
A
Like, did you sketch them every time for those prints or just like, were you able to pull in, like, the. The.
- [32:39]
B
As we.
- [32:40]
A
The ones that cross over?
- [32:41]
B
Yeah, as. As we've gotten. As we've gone along, we've kind of rounded out and built that whole lineup up. And so some of that art crosses over. But the reason, honestly, one of the reasons that I've loved doing those prints is they are like the kick in the tail that motivates myself, that I'm used to, motivate myself to produce a bunch of new art. So if we have that project, I'll sit down and I'll list out the 37 new sketches we need and I'll just. So, like, with the waterfowl deal, I made myself do three a day.
- [33:15]
A
So that's awesome.
- [33:16]
B
No matter what was happening, I have to do three a day. Like, one of those could have been done at 10 o' clock at night after we put kids to bed. And I'm like, you know, doing it with a liquor drink, like sketching at night. But I had to do three a day.
- [33:29]
A
And.
- [33:29]
B
And some of that comes from my background as a designer. Like, you're on a production schedule and when you have a press date, that thing is very inflexible. And so we'd set a press date and I would just work back and do my own production schedule and then make sure I stayed on track with that.
- [33:47]
A
So I Think that's the old discipline thing that comes in handy when you're an entrepreneur, because if you don't have that, man, it's easy to get overwhelmed and then never do anything.
- [33:58]
B
And art. And I learned that doing. Working in production, but also doing client work, because, yeah, dude, you. You become that guy that misses deadlines, and you learn real fast that you are one spoke in a bigger marketing wheel for these companies. And if you are the wheel that hold. You're the spoke that holds everybody else up. You won't be in business for too much.
- [34:19]
A
Yeah. You quit getting hired for stuff. Yeah.
- [34:21]
B
No matter how good you are.
- [34:23]
A
Yeah. Yeah. So. So you did the. All the waterfowl flyways. One of the ones I really like is the age, like, the aging of the whitetail. Because I think one of the biggest things that whitetail hunters, or deer hunters in general have to educate themselves on is aging deer on the hoof. And so having that, like you said, infographic showing from 1 and a half to 6 and a half plus is a very. It's such a cool visual representation of, like, what deer look like while they're out there in the field. Because, you know, because your emotions can very quickly get the better of you, like when you've got a deer walking down the trail or, you know, it's. You're. All you're focused on is getting that bow drawn back or, you know, getting the rifle up on them. So it was cool. Like, I've really liked that one because, you know, like, I've grown up in it. And even still, like, I'll look at deer and be like, what's that? How old is that deer? And most of the time, if it gets me fired up, I don't really care. But. But it's still. It's still like, it's. It's a skill that is. Is good to learn. Um, and so that one. I. I love that one.
- [35:29]
B
That. That. That's been our most popular one, and I actually did that. So I got all the four waterfowl done, like, in early August, and we had a September press date. I was like, man, I wonder if there's something I could do for deer. Like, yeah, it'd be really cool to talk about the age, The. The. The life cycle of a deer. And so it really is. It's a cool visual for how to age them, but if you look at the. The information and stuff, it has way more to do about how their life changes as they grow and mature. And one of the challenges to doing those projects Is I want all the stuff that I lay out to be scientifically, like backed by research and biologists.
- [36:09]
A
So.
- [36:10]
B
So Kip Adams and Matt Ross were the two guys that I leaned on at the NDA and they were sending me reports and studies and. And what you end up doing is everything has to be percentages or kind of general rules. So for example, I've got the art there. But people in, you know, the low country of South Carolina, their deer are going to look different from those of Wisconsin.
- [36:40]
A
Right.
- [36:40]
B
But the rounded butt, the suede back, the pot belly, the inches of antler are going to stay in proportion, if that makes sense.
- [36:48]
A
Sure.
- [36:49]
B
So like one thing that I wanted to do is a, is weight. But we couldn't find ident, like really tangible information for weight because it varies so much.
- [37:02]
A
Right.
- [37:02]
B
So like if you look at the rack, we had to do the percentages of their potential, not inches of antler, because some deer is a 125 top end and other deers 225 top end.
- [37:13]
A
Right.
- [37:14]
B
But at five and a half years old, they should be 95% of whatever that potential is. So there's always kind of a back and forth in the middle of the process of like, what can we accurately say about deer versus what's backed by science and what can we put numbers to? What can we quantify is the thing. And I try to draw things that are interesting we can quantify and are helpful in those. And man, sometimes there's really awesome art that you can't quantify or doesn't serve a purpose. And so we can it.
- [37:51]
A
Right.
- [37:52]
B
So anyway, but those are really fun projects too because I learn a lot, especially from, from really good biologists.
- [37:58]
A
Yeah, for sure. So what was the approach? Because then, you know, okay, so you've got the information on like kind of deer overall and all these other spec. But then you did one where it's like the anatomy, like the internal anatomy of the deer. So how did, where did that research come from? So what I'm talking about here is like basically kind of like painted a deer, but then like peeled back the skin and the muscle so you can like reveal like the different organs and everything. And so people can have a better visual of like, where should I shoot this deer in regards to like where the bones go. How did you get go about researching that side of things?
- [38:34]
B
It was a lot of research and I'd been hired by a couple of companies early in my career to do that stuff, like more generalized stuff, like almost more shop placement charts. But I guess to go back to my college days, I always had like a. I was. I was an athlete and I always tried to work out, so I had a. An interest in, like, physiology and how muscles worked and joints and. And all that kind of stuff. And at one point in college, I was going to be a medical illustrator where that, you know, makes a ton of sense. This is back in early 2000s, and you know how, like, you're getting your physical and the doctor shuts the door and there's like a. A drawing of the digestive system of the human. Yeah, well, and artists had to draw that. And. Yeah, this was, you know, in. In those days, this was, like I said, early 2000s. It was before AI and video and animation and dude, now you can, like, travel the blood vessels and arteries and lungs, I'm sure with an animated version. But before this, you know, people were doing it by hand and watercolor type stuff.
- [39:50]
A
Yep.
- [39:51]
B
So I always had a really big interest in anatomy and physiology and, And. And art. What I realized though it. So at one point in. In college, I was really confused about my life, and I had a major and three minors because I had to have some biology background. But then I started looking at it, and you basically go through med school right alongside of a doctor. Except instead of getting paid big bucks to go operate on it, I'd get paid mediocre bucks to draw it. But I literally go through med school, and I was like, I'm over school. I. I don't want another four years.
- [40:31]
A
And.
- [40:31]
B
And one of the best programs was Michigan or John Hot Johns Hopkins University. There are only like three in the country that had a master's program in it. So anyway, I always had that. That interest in it. You know, field dressing a deer can teach you just as much as anything. Skin and a deer can teach you just as much as anything. And then I did a bunch of research. I actually went through. I found a resource, a biologist that had some, like, cross sections of deer anatomy. And then you. You kind of pick and pull and let all that stuff ruminate. But then I have to earn my keep and produce it. You know, I can't trace over it. I've got to produce something that. That is accurate. And so that's where that one came from. And then we did the anat. The antler print, which followed up after the anatomy print. And that one just talks about all things whitetail antlers, so.
- [41:33]
A
Well, it's funny. It's funny that you said that you were interested in doing, like, anat like anatomy, art, anatomy, physiology, art. Because looking at that print of, like, the internal organs of the deer, it reminded me directly of, like, my wife was. Became an ot, and so she had like, the big, thick anatomy book. And I don't know, I don't remember the author, the artist name of that particular anatomy book, but everyone's like, oh, this one's the best because it has the best art. And so, like, looking through that and flipping through that, I was like, this is like, you know, just the animal version of that. So. Yeah. Yeah, you are. You're already on that path.
- [42:10]
B
You know, even, like, da Vinci did a lot of human anatomy drawings and stuff.
- [42:16]
A
Yeah.
- [42:16]
B
And they didn't know what we know now about the human body. So you look back and there's all kinds of really interesting stuff. I mean, that's when they would, like, put leeches on people and blood let them. And like, we didn't know what we were doing really. And yeah, the art is similarly like, I. I feel like one of those. They thought your emotions came from your gut, and so they illustrated whatever organ they thought that was. I mean, it's really cool to see how.
- [42:44]
A
Yeah.
- [42:45]
B
There.
- [42:45]
A
Which turns out. Which turns out after however many years, that first idea was that your emotion came from your gut. Turns out that's fairly true now with the backed with science and like, your whole microbiome, but that's a whole other discussion. I'm a weird. I'm a weird guy. I listen to all sorts of different podcasts and, you know, go down rabbit holes and stuff.
- [43:05]
B
This is going to go to a Huberman Lab podcast real quick.
- [43:08]
A
That's right.
- [43:08]
B
Yeah.
- [43:10]
A
So you've had. I mean, I think one of the coolest things that I've been able to watch from the outside looking in is, like, just how many different places your artwork shows up and what's. Do you have a favorite spot? Like, I mean, I've seen it on shell boxes. You know, I've taken photos for, like, I think it was a 400 something for Winchester that had come out.
- [43:35]
B
400 legend.
- [43:36]
A
Yeah, 400 legends high. Like, I took photos of that for Savage for, you know, a project that they were doing, you know, and then. But like, I've seen it on NASCAR and like, you name it across the board in the industry. Like, if people might not know who you are, but they've seen your artwork. Like, that's the cool thing. So do you have a favorite spot that it's ended up.
- [43:57]
B
You know, I. I really. I like sports, and I'm I'm coaching my kid. We, we. My son Rhett is nine, Brooklyn's five. And I, I've literally been coaching since April. Nonstop baseball. And we just ended football. So I kind of did a break to deer hunt. But anyway, yeah, I love sports. I played them. I think they're a good metaphor for life. And I, I've been able to work with a lot of professional athletes and I've got a lot of originals in their home. So one of my most favorite recent ones is I did a piece for Carlos Rodon of the Yankees. He's a pitcher for the Yankees, but he, he pitched for the White Sox for a while and they bought a bunch of farms and stuff around there. He's a die hard deer hunter. Like, I think they've got farms in Indiana, Illinois, Kansas, maybe somewhere else. So literally his life, he spends spring training in Florida, then goes to New York for the season and then goes to the Midwest for deer season and then back to Florida for spring training. Like a big triangle. And I worked with, we worked with his interior designer. They were building a big home. He had just signed a big contract with the Yankees and I did a custom one for his office, which was pretty cool. And I painted his. One of his recent deer on his racks. On the deer, sure. So we took the kids to New York and delivered it. Caught a Yankees game and all that kind of stuff. But that was a really cool deal. I really like the Winchester boxes. I think that it sounds corny and I don't mean to go that direction, but as you get older, your kids get older, you start thinking a little bit more about your legacy. And I think that those are some ways where I can contribute to like, other people's experience outdoors. And I think that's cool. Um, yeah.
- [45:52]
A
So, I mean, I would say, I would say like, the, the boxes of ammunition is stuff that like, will travel the farthest. Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean, that's pretty cool. Like you get to go, you know, in a way, like your art's going on all these adventures, you know, with millions of people across the country. So that's a, that's pretty, that's pretty cool.
- [46:09]
B
And you know, like, we pick up an old box of, you know, 22 and it's got a sketch of a rabbit on there and the ammo is all rusted out and nasty and you don't really want to fire it.
- [46:21]
A
You don't need a test.
- [46:22]
B
Yeah, but it's like, look at this old school art. And you tend to think like, man, in 30 years. That could be my box. That's the old school art. Like, look at this. 20, 25, right?
- [46:34]
A
Yeah. It's amazing how quickly everything becomes vintage.
- [46:37]
B
Yeah, that's when drones were invented.
- [46:39]
A
Look how old that was.
- [46:42]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [46:43]
A
I mean, I actually, I've. I've kind of started to collect like, old art like that. Like, I just ordered a couple, like, old shotgun shell boxes and stuff from, you know, past and my ways, like, antique stores. I'm always looking for stuff like that old, you know, old painted covers of magazines and just trying to find any of that old nostalgic stuff.
- [47:02]
B
It's cool. And, and art, in a way, has played a lot of role through, through all of hunting and conservation. And so, you know, I'm, I'm really like, day to day, we're busy, man. I'm.
- [47:18]
A
Yeah.
- [47:19]
B
You know, I've got four people on payroll now, mostly part time, but we've got two young kids. We've got a lot going on and it's, it's. Sometimes it's hard to like, take a break and look up at where we're at and where we've done. But I feel like we've, we've. We've done a really cool job in what we've produced and, and I've done some pretty cool art and it, It'd make me proud if, like, you know, when grandpa's hunk camp gets sold, one of the grandkids wants the Kirby piece. Like, if I can contribute to people's, like, experience and, and, and enrich their outdoor lifestyle, however that is, that's kind of my role and that's my lane to stay in.
- [48:03]
A
Yeah, well, that's. I mean, it's very cool to like, kind of. Most people never understand their, like, little niche of like their little tunnel that they're trying to like, you know, move forward. You get kind of caught up in the weeds. But so it's, it's cool that you can kind of see, like, this is the direction that I'm trying to go and this is what I'm trying to leave behind. Yeah. Do you have any, do you have any real big projects that you're working on right now as far as, like, new, like, infographic stuff or any big projects that are coming?
- [48:33]
B
We just released a trout print, which is where I was working all summer long.
- [48:38]
A
Yep.
- [48:39]
B
You know, I've, I've stayed away from fish, not stayed away from them, but I've just been kind of infatuated with my deer and turkey and elk and waterfowl.
- [48:47]
A
Stuff.
- [48:49]
B
But we live in Boone now in the mountains, and there's a lot of trout fishing around here, and people love it. People have been asking for it for a while, so. But really, man, we do. Almost half of our sales come in November, December, and January for Christmas gifts and stuff like that. You know, obviously, you know, I'm not selling a necessity. It's a want. It's a want, not a needle. And so that we. We get a lot of orders around Christmas time, through the holidays. And so really, I've spent my last three weeks just getting ready for that. You know, I may be in a video shoot, and I hear the beep, beep, beep. And there's a box truck that's unloading hats or boxes, you know? Yep. We have a shop out here outside the studio, and it is literally, the floors are full of pallets of cardboard boxes and hats and stuff like that. And so most of my new stuff, like, if I really retreat into the creative cave, that happens over the summer, and by the time we get to October, it's like, straight up, you're just.
- [49:59]
A
Fulfilling orders and doing all that stuff. Yeah. Doing the business side, that allows you to do the creative side.
- [50:03]
B
Exactly, exactly. So, yeah.
- [50:06]
A
Yeah. Well, very cool. How do. How do people, like, you know, how do people find you? I guess, like, what's the best way for people to find you and support you and just follow along with everything?
- [50:17]
B
Yeah, man. All our stuff is available@ryan kirby.com. that's our website. I'm probably most active on Instagram. That's probably the best place. Instagram, Facebook, we. We do have TikTok and then YouTube, but I'm so old, dude, I post a TikTok through a web browser. How about that?
- [50:38]
A
I don't even have a phone. Yeah, all of us. I mean, all of us. Are you still in the millennial, like, age group, or are you Gen X? You're out of the line somewhere.
- [50:48]
B
We were. We were the class of 2000. I guess that's millennial, right? Yeah.
- [50:53]
A
So either. Either way, like, both of us are still, like, clinging to the Instagram thing. It's just. There's a comedian. It's like. It's just us and the realtors out there now on Instagram.
- [51:03]
B
That is awesome.
- [51:06]
A
So, yeah, Ryan, I. Thanks. Thanks for hopping on with me today. I just. I love hearing the whole story. But, yeah, if you know, everybody listening, go, you know, hop on, Ryan Kirby dot com. Go order some artwork. You need it for your deer camp or your duck camp or your turkey camp. It's a necessity. So thanks again, man, for joining us.
- [51:24]
B
Yeah, dude, I appreciate it. It's always good to talk with you, man.
- [51:27]
A
Yeah, absolutely.