← Legends of the Wild, A Field And Stream Production | Hunting, Fishing and the Outdoors
Legends of the Wild, A Field And Stream Production | Hunting, Fishing and the Outdoors
Episode 14 - Public Ground, Pressured Deer, and Why Access Still Matters With Meateater’s Tony Peterson
01:11:54
Public land whitetails reveal more about hunters, access, and limits than antlers ever will.
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- [00:01]
State Farm Announcer
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- [00:31]
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- [00:41]
Tony Peterson
Power.
- [00:42]
Chevrolet Announcer
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- [01:02]
Field and Stream Host
This is Legends of the Wild presented by Field and Stream. Let's get into it. All right, welcome back, everybody. This is the next episode of Legends of the Wild for Field and Stream. I'm pretty fired up. I'm joined by my good buddy Tony Peterson, who is currently working at Meat Eater. Has been for a while now. But yeah, I'm just excited to kind of bullshit for a good chunk of an hour about all the stuff we've done because we've been, we've known each other for a long time, just honestly, just through social media to start and then after that have got to know each other like through a couple different events and hunts together. So welcome. Thanks for hopping on and excited to just see where this goes, man.
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Tony Peterson
I appreciate it. I feel when you invited me on here, I was like, did Jim Shockey get the flu? Did Mark Jury fall down and crack his skull on the ice? What's going on here, buddy?
- [02:04]
Field and Stream Host
No, I, I, it was nothing like that. I was just like going through my list of people that I know in the industry and like, like having conversations with and I was like, I wonder if Tony would even have time to like, hop on and do this because we both have a bit of an obsession when it comes to whitetail stuff. And that's very clear in both of our, the content that we put out. But you've done all sorts of stuff over the years and so I'm excited to just like go through kind of Your journey in the outdoor space or in the hunting industry. And then what, you know, led you to here?
- [02:41]
Tony Peterson
Yeah, man. I'm. You know, I. I'm like, you, buddy. Like, I really like whitetails, but I will hunt so much stuff. Yeah.
- [02:49]
Field and Stream Host
Like, I just didn't get a tag for. Right, well.
- [02:51]
Tony Peterson
Right. And I mean, you know, at this. At this point in my life, my. My priorities have just, like, shifted so much. You know, I went through the trophy hunting stage. I went through, like, I gotta get out west as much as possible. And now I'm just like, put me someplace I want to be. Like, I'll. I'll find the reason to go there. Like, if it's an environment, you know, like western North Dakota. I'm like, if they stop selling me. Well, they kind of stopped selling us mule deer tags, right? So then I'm like, they'll sell me a whitetail tag. If they stop that, I'll go out there and I'll hunt sharpies or something, because I just want to be there, you know?
- [03:22]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah. Yeah. Well, that landscape. I mean, like, that place in particular. You know, I live in North Dakota and have spent a fair bit of time out in the badlands, and every time I drive away from that landscape and, like, from that real breaksy country, because you can't really find it quite like that anywhere else. And, like, I. I'm, like, sad every time I leave it. Like, even. Even if I have, like, a really good reason to get home and, like, you know, like, I've got a ton of work to do, a family back at home. It's like, I. You know, I'm kind of done out here. I could get home, like, a day early, and then I'd start driving away. I'm like, oh, I'm just, like, mad that that's in my rearview mirror now.
- [04:01]
Tony Peterson
Dude. I. I was. I was thinking about that. I was pheasant hunting the other day and kind of zoned out, and I started thinking about that because I'm. I really like mystery. Like, I like the new. Like, I like. I like new places, right? So I. But that area of North Dakota and just the breaky stuff, like, you're talking. There are just certain places where it's like, even though the hunting changes, right? You. Like, you might have a bad winter where the. The density. The deer density goes way down. Or, you know, depending on your timing of the season, there might be a ton of people out there trying to kill velvet deer or something like it. The hunting can change and get more difficult. Usually doesn't get a lot easier, but that environment doesn't change. Like, you still go there, and you're like, this is a raw, like, beautiful setting to be in. And it's not, you know, where I live right now, a lot of the places I hunted five years ago are covered in houses. And when I go back to certain places, it's often like you're chasing a memory. Right. Like, it's not. You're not visiting the same place anymore. And. And I think that's the appeal of, you know, Alaska, of. Of certain places, like the Badlands out in North Dakota, some of the mountain hunts, because. Yeah. You know, I mean, the oil boon comes along, and, like, things do change. Right. Like, more people get there, but generally, you're feeling out there. You're like, this is still a badass place to be, and just, like, camp and spend my time and, like, you know, you're out there and you're like, I found some antlers, or there's just, like. There's just like, an untouched feeling to it in a way that you just don't get in a lot of places. And I feel as. You know, maybe this is just me getting old, but I'm like, I go to a lot of places I've hunted for a long time, and I just feel like they change. Like, there's more of a fingerprint of people just all throughout.
- [05:42]
Field and Stream Host
Yep. Yeah. And that's just, you know, let's see, I'm 38, and so, you know, like, when I was born, you know, there was, like, 140 million people in the country. And so, you know, now we're looking, you know, 350 million people. You mean, almost tripled the population. And when you have that many people, regardless of the fact that, like, the middle of the country has more or less emptied out and gone to population centers, it's still, like you said, like, it just feels like there's been. Like, the land has been more worked over in a lot of these places. So. Yeah, like, anytime you could spend moments in those rugged places where, like, if you got dropped back off there in a plane or went back out there, like, it's basically the exact same thing as you saw 10 years ago. Like, those places are ones you want to hold on to and not talk about all that much, but.
- [06:31]
Tony Peterson
Right. Well. And, you know, the other thing, too, that I keep bumping into, I've been doing. I've been. I've been writing a lot of my podcasts on trophy hunting and, like, talking about trophy hunting a lot, because I. I feel like we sort of go in cycles.
- [06:44]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah.
- [06:45]
Tony Peterson
Which we could talk about later if you want. But one of my really, really good buddies down in southeastern Minnesota killed just a giant buck this year. It was a. It's basically a mainframe 8. It's a 9, but it's only got like a 2 inch, you know, G3 or whatever on the one side. Or G4, but it's 172 inch buck. So you're basically looking at like a, A Boone and Crockett eight pointer. Yeah, he's, you know, he's got a good spot, but he, you know, he hunts his ass off and he, he waits for a good one. And that's like a, A deer of a lifetime for him and as it would be for most people. But he said, you know, if I go shoot, you know, 140 incher, he's like, I don't hear from the neighbors, I don't hear from these random people. It's just like, it's like just my thing and it's gone. Right. And. Which is a freaking great deer. But he's like, I killed this deer. And now people coming out of the woodwork and they're like, that was my target buck and I've been watching that deer for three years. And it like takes something away from him, you know, just because like everybody else is like, aware of these deer. And I, I think that's sort of the appeal of some of these, these travel trips where you go someplace where, you know, if I go into the badlands in North Dakota to hunt whitetails and I kill a buck, nobody's like, oh, no, like, that was my deer. Or, you know what I mean? Like, it's just, it's like, just mine. I showed up and it was a mystery and I figured something out and I, you know, whatever, fill the tag and it was cool. But you don't have like some of that extra bullshit sneak in. And I don't think we even. I mean, I don't know what you do about it, but you don't really see that stuff coming. It's like a slow creep kind of.
- [08:14]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah.
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Tony Peterson
And then all of a sudden you realize you're like, man, I don't want to share trail camera photos or talk to the neighbor anymore or anything like that. It's like a weird. We're in like a weird place, man.
- [08:23]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah, we are. We're all kind of like, you know, you almost end up in your own little bubble, like, kind of thing. And then I have. Well, I mean, It's a, I think it's a combo of things. Social media has more or less disincentivized posting anything about hunting. Like, you know, like it does not get any engagement. And so like it just like throttles you down for like, oh, if you post this really cool photo of like a hunting experience and nobody sees it. And so, and so it's like, why do I even share that stuff? I'll just send all this good stuff to, you know, the clients that I work for and they can share it for marketing purposes. But you know, part of me Mrs. Like, part of me really likes like sharing the experiences that I have in the outdoors because I feel like then it's easier to relate to people. But when like nobody sees that stuff, it's hard to want to share it. And then two on top of that, what you're talking about is you're have this weird, like you kind of want to keep it to yourself a little bit and right. You know, have, have these experiences where you know, no, like you said, nobody's going to take it away from you.
- [09:23]
Tony Peterson
I mean I, dude, I totally agree.
- [09:25]
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- [09:57]
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- [10:17]
Tony Peterson
I, you know, I'm kind of like notoriously anti social media and have been my whole life. I mean I do post and we have, we have some obligations around that. Right. But I've been kind of wrestling with this a lot like with my daughters and you know, stories about my buddy like that. And I talked to my neighbor the other day who's a total weekend warrior, right. Gun hunter. And he was telling me about how he doesn't get to go or he didn't get to go to his stand this year. You know, like gun hunters are like my stands the ladder stand in the swamp and my stands this one and you know, whatever. And he said because his cousins or uncle or somebody saw a big one in there. And so he's like, now, you know, like, I don't have the authority to override that. The guys, it's his place. So he's like, now we're going to sit there. And I just, like, I see so much of that stuff, and I go, man, this is our fault. Like, I. I really believe. And. And by our. I mean, like, the outdoor industry. Like, I really believe that we have. We have sort of like, sowed a narrative or curated this narrative around how to be as a hunter, and now we're reaping what we've sown. Like, now we have seen that permeate the deer hunting culture in a. In what I feel is like a super negative way. And I don't. I. I don't know how, you know, like, we don't fix that on social media, right? Like, that's. That's one of the reasons I think podcasts are so valuable is because you can get a good chunk of a person and be like, okay, this. This dude's ideas, or, like, the way he's looking at this. Like, I like this. Like, this is a thing that I can sort of use to point myself in the right direction. But so much of what we fed the audience for so long, and, I mean, this is, you know, like, I don't know if I just sound like an old guy bitching, but, like, I. I started my public land hunting in a direct response to editing magazine articles from guys who had a thousand acres in southern Iowa. And the audience was like, I don't. I can't relate to that. And I'm like, well, neither can I. And so I was like, it was a business decision. And then, you know, I talked to the hunting public guys years later, and they're like, we did the same thing, you know, from the same people. And I'm like, God, we've been doing this for so long, man. Like, when. When are we gonna send a message that's just different? And then, you know, you know, if you do, like, I'll. Sometimes I'll go out and shoot a forky, and sometimes I'll kill a 160. Like, I have a range, right? Like, back. Like, that's just how it is. And I'm like, I look at what happens either way, and you're like, you're gonna get shit for that one and that one. And you're like, I don't know what to do here. You know, Like, I don't know what to do.
- [12:52]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah, I do. I do appreciate the fact that there has been some narrative pushback on that. Like from. There's certain accounts on social media where people have started to go the other way. One good example of that is do you know Eric Clark over at okay, Est Hunter?
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Tony Peterson
Yep, yep.
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Field and Stream Host
So I mean the, the funny thing is like that page started as kind of like a, you know, like a like saying that we all like just mess up, right? You're the okayest hunters, like kind of like a, you know, a page of mediocrity. But he has shifted that thing into like just go do your own hunt. Like just go hunt the way you want to hunt. It doesn't matter. Go make it fun again. And stuff like that has been like, I love seeing that because like, like that has spilled over into other accounts that I followed for a long time that used to be just like really rigid, you know, like only going after big stuff. And I think a lot of people realize that, that you start to lose loud on like the fun of that when you're so focused on, you know, trying to kill something big or just, you know, trying to shoot a certain deer or whatever it is and like kind of bringing back in like that like child, you know, wanderlust a little bit and just you're feeling like everything's magic again when you go back into that space, if you can get there. So I'm hopeful, but I think you're right that social media is only like, it's a such a small part of the puzzle to get that back. Whereas like long form conversations and stuff like that will help a lot.
- [14:22]
Tony Peterson
Yeah. And I mean, and he's, he's great over there because that, that message is I think very important. You know, like I talk to people all the time and I'm, I'm like, I literally feel like a mistake making machine almost every time I go into the outdoors. Yeah, just, I mean you just do like that. That's why when you go do something hard, something difficult and you get it right, it feels really good. Like it's because most of the time you're going to screw it up and most of the time they're going to beat you. This is the reason why the primary method of whitetail hunting that you see promoted now is one where everything is controlled and everything is curated. It's like, okay, well there's way fewer surprises there, right? Yeah, but it's like, you know, a lot of people don't want that. A lot of people don't have access to that and you don't have that without money. Right. Like you don't have that without certain things. And so there's just like that world that's, like, way overrepresented in the industry, I think. And then now you, like you said with Eric and some of these other guys, you have this response to it. And I think that's great because, like, you want people to understand that. Like, you. You want people to understand that most of. The. Most of us who are out here doing this are screwing up all the time. Like, there. There are times where I go hunting where I'm like, I feel like I cannot get anything right. Like, anything or, you know, I. I talked about this. I did a show last year that I filmed in Iowa where I decoyed in a buck and ended up gut shooting him. And it was just like the feeling of going from, holy shit, like my setup. This little public land setup's perfect. Here he comes. Just like I planned.
- [16:03]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah.
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Tony Peterson
He offers himself up, and then I shank it. And you're like, you know, just. Right, right. You know, because not only are you, like, personally, you just did a bad job, man. Like, you. You changed the, like, the flavor of the whole thing. Yeah. And it's like you just. That's just what happens out there, you know, I was. I was just pheasant hunting with a buddy a couple days ago, and. And it's. It's been really good. Like, we were. We waited into this cattail slew, and it was one of those ones that for whatever reason, just had a lot of roosters, you know, like, usually, you know, we're hunting public land. So usually it's like 15, 20 hen flushes to every rooster, but this place was just like a bachelor pad. And so you're just going through there and you're like, we're going to get our limit.
- [16:50]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah.
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Tony Peterson
And I had. I. He had gone through this little patch of cane and pushed up a rooster. And it came over me about 5,000 miles an hour because I was like 100 yards away. And, you know, like once every couple of seasons, you get a. Like a passing shot at a rooster, you know, And I just pulled up and I shot that bird. And I was like, I think I just made the best pheasant shot of my life. Sent my dog in there to get it. She found him, brought him to me. I threw him in the game bag. I turned around and she got Birdie on this clump of cattails in front of me and put a rooster up. And I missed him at like 20ft with both barrels. And I was like, this just levels off so fast.
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Field and Stream Host
Yeah. Right. When you think you're the man, you get humbled just immediately. Right.
- [17:35]
Tony Peterson
But that's what's. I mean, I think that that's what's so special about what we do. Like, there's stakes to it. Right? Even. Even though, like, that doesn't. It doesn't matter to shoot a rooster and miss a rooster, but, like, personally, you're like, oh, I'm. I get a good reminder of what I actually am, you know? And, like, it's the same thing, you know, I'm. I'm 45, and I wade into a cattail slough, and by the end of the day, I'm like, I'm freaking tired.
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Field and Stream Host
Yeah.
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Tony Peterson
Like, just. You know what I mean? I know the trophy photo at the end of the day looks awesome with your dog and all this stuff, but, like, you. You put yourself through something.
- [18:08]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think one of the most frustrating things, like, just the. The fact that you get humbled so fast and. And this is not frustrating, but when you do this stuff for a long time, whether it be hunting or fishing or any passion like, that you're in. I think if you pursue it hard, you continually try to get better, it always seems like it should be easier the next year. Right. Like, you know, the. The amount of lessons I've learned in the hunting woods, whether it be whitetail or mule deer or elk or ducks or geese or whatever, I always feel like, you know, like, in my head, I've. Like, I've got all the pieces put together. Like, as long as I hunt these funnels or these pinch points or whatever, like, I'm gonna kill a deer. And then you go out there, I had a cut. Like, I had a couple seasons not last, like, so two years in a row. I was like, oh, man. Like, I'm. I've got this dialed. I've got lots of time to hunt. I'm gonna, like, fill two or three tags. Whitetails, like, got it dialed. I know we've got good spots, the whole thing. Like, I've scouted these spots. I've covered thousands of mil foot over the last, you know, half a decade. One year, I didn't kill a buck until sit number. I think it was like, 73. And then the next year, it was like, sit number 67. I finally shot a deer. I was like, oh, boy. I. I, you know, thought I had this deer hunting thing figured out, and, boy, do I not right so.
- [19:36]
Tony Peterson
Well, I mean, yeah. When you say that. So when you say about just, like, trying to get better at this stuff. I mean, I think, well, first off, you're not going to get better unless you sit those 70 days and finally killing, you know, But I, I also think that, you know, again, kind of back to the messaging. We're like, we will sell you stuff, whether that's, whether that's a, you know, a camera or a call or a strategy. Right. Like a bed hunting, whatever, doing this, this time of the season to make it easier instead of helping you get better. And I, I, and I think that's like, when you, you know how this is. You know all the same people. I do. When you, when you meet somebody who's like, that dude just gets it done wherever he goes. Public land, private land, out west, out east, whatever. It's not because they have the best gear. You know what I mean? Like, it's like they've stacked up enough experience to just go, well, this, not that. This, not that. And I, I had a, I just filmed a, A show up in northern Minnesota. Did a winter camping thing for grouse. Took sled dogs in. It was miserable. Stupid. Yeah, miserable, dude. Camping. Camping in a tent 25 miles from the Canadian border in December.
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Field and Stream Host
Yeah.
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Tony Peterson
Not a great idea, but was it.
- [20:55]
Field and Stream Host
One of those things that seemed like a. Just like a really fun adventure on paper? And then you got.
- [21:00]
Tony Peterson
Yeah, dude, I pitched that show like, last February. And I was like, this is gonna be great because I brought my dog in my lab in. So we did the sled dog thing, which was cool as hell.
- [21:10]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah.
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Tony Peterson
But as it grew closer and I'm like, looking at the forecast, I'm like, you're so stupid. Why would you do this to yourself? Like, you could have pitched a Florida show or something.
- [21:19]
Field and Stream Host
Anything.
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Tony Peterson
But, yeah, dumb. Anyway, I was, I was intent at night, you know, because it's dark at 5 o'.
- [21:26]
Field and Stream Host
Clock.
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Tony Peterson
You're like, we're 10 miles from any other human. Like, there's nothing to do. So you're sitting there, bs And I was filming with a guy, Dylan Lenz, who's, he's a cameraman that I film with a lot, who's a really good whitetail hunter.
- [21:36]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah.
- [21:37]
Tony Peterson
And we were just talking about, you know, it when, when we were younger, you know, you could hunt at 12. Like, a lot of states were 12. Right. And so you're like, you can't wait till you can just like, go bow hunt on your own and do your own thing. And he, he was like, I just couldn't wait for that. And then he's like, then you go out, and all you do is fail. And you. And eventually he's like, you just like, I've tried this, this, this, and this. I'm going to try that. And suddenly you see one, or you have that encounter, and you're like, okay, now my direction is this. And it's like, that stuff doesn't sell, right? It's like, you're not going to be like, hey, audience, go fail for a decade before you kill your first big buck, and then you'll get a little better, and then do it for another decade. Then you'll get kind of good at it. But also, you'll have seasons where you have to sit before you kill one.
- [22:26]
Field and Stream Host
Yep, yep. Yeah. You can't buy experience, unfortunately. Like, just gotta go out and earn that. And that's the brutal truth, unfortunately. But it's great. Like. But, like, it makes it so much sweeter when it does finally happen because you're like, oh, it's like almost a sense of relief. Like, you've put in so much time and effort, like, days. Days and days and days where you're like, do I even like this anymore? Like, am I.
- [22:51]
Tony Peterson
Or.
- [22:51]
Field and Stream Host
Or if I just, like, lost the whatever little magical touch I had when I was, like, 21, you know? And then it finally comes again. You're like, okay, this. Yeah, that was all worth it. That's all of it.
- [23:04]
Tony Peterson
But it is. I mean, that's the. That's the thing about it. Like, I. I just killed my first pope and young buck in northern Wisconsin, and I've been hunting there since 2008. I've never even. So just to like, frame this up, I've hunted that area more than any other area anywhere in that, you know, 17 years or whatever it was. I put in more scouting time, more just hunting time, more everything to that. And I. I have never even gotten a shot at a pope and young buck in all that time. And I went over there this year and sat for almost four full days and never saw a deer. And I just. I relocated to a spot that I thought maybe the wolves had pushed him out of this swamp, kind of on a flyer, kind of, because I had a camera running on this one sp and had one of the coolest hunts I've ever had decoyed in this buck. Called him in, the whole thing. But I was like, I have gotten my ass kicked for almost two decades. And I mean, brutal. Like, yeah. You know, you talk about sitting for 70 days. A couple years ago, I sat for 21 days over there before I saw Dough man.
- [24:20]
Field and Stream Host
That and that is actual grinding.
- [24:23]
Tony Peterson
Like, that's terrible.
- [24:25]
Field and Stream Host
Terry, Most people talk about grinding. They're still seeing deer all the time. They just haven't had a mature buck in front of them. Like real grinding. Is that where you're willing to go and just live in the woods and not see a thing?
- [24:38]
Tony Peterson
I mean, it's. To me, the, to me, the hardest hunts are the low deer density hunts that usually go along with thick cover. Right. Like, they go along with. You don't. You could do a low deer density hunt out west somewhere but find a pocket of them because you can see them. Like when you do, you know, I always just equate it to, you know, an over the counter public land elk hunt in Colorado. You're like, I know there's not very many out here and I know most of them are going to be concentrated in a few spots. So I'm going to look at a bunch of beautiful land and see nothing and encounter nothing and hear no bugles or anything. And then eventually you'll stumble into a little spot somewhere after, you know, three days of blanking and you're going to be like, they're here right now. And it's like, you know, your odds of working that correctly and making it happen are a different story. But that's, that's what those, you know, low deer density, thick cover hunts are. But it's like if you want to learn how to find deer, you know, you, you have such a in season scouting component because you got to find that little pocket and you have to play. Like you have to handle it so carefully because if you blow them out of there or you just tip them off, which you do all the time, then you're, now I have to find that again. And it's like you might not even find it. And it's so. It's like a. Those hunts over there to me are just like torture that I'm drawn to. I don't know, I don't know how to describe it. Like, I keep going back. I don't know why, but it's just when you get it right, it's so freaking sweet.
- [26:07]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah. Do you think that's the difference between people that are getting it done on a consistent basis and not it's just like that ability like to spend the time finding in season sign. Like, do you think that's the biggest differentiating factor or is there more to it than that?
- [26:23]
Tony Peterson
I think it's a part of it for sure. I mean, I. One thing that I, like, I constantly remind myself now is they'll show you, right? So like I think about this with smallmouth fishing and pheasant hunting and everything else, duck hunting, what I think only carries me like a little ways, you know. So if I'm like, it's this time of year and the smallies should all be up shallow and they should be blowing up on top waters and it should be gangbusters. And I go out and I work seven islands and I don't get any blow ups except for pike. I'm like, okay, well, they're showing me I'm wrong. Yeah, so what now it's like. And then so in the, in the whitetail world, they do that all the time. But people will go, well, it's because it's a full moon or it's because it's this or it's because it's that. And I just look at that and I go, there. There's just something I'm missing, right? Or like, if I've done this, and I'm sure you've done this too, where I'll walk into a place, you know, I used to do this a lot on public land. I'd show up in Oklahoma or somewhere and you know, I'd look at Onx and I'd be like, I'm going to sit that pinch point. I'm going to go see if that's a river crossing. And I'm like, you know, very militant, like, this is my plan and one of these things will show me something. And as I'm walking to like the first spot to look at it, here's 17 scrapes on a meadow. And you know what I mean, deer everywhere. And you're like, I'm gonna walk right past this to go satisfy my male ego and be like, they're supposed to be here. And then, you know, you go mess around for a couple days and you're like, maybe I should go back. You know, I did this in North Dakota a couple years ago. I had a kind of a cruising spot on this, on this river bottom on the, on the east side of the state. And I was like, all I have to do is go in there, ride that out and one of them's going to come through. And I went in there and there were cameras everywhere. And it was like this. My secret spot. Wasn't a secret, but on the way in, I walked underneath this one oak tree in this pasture and there were scrapes underneath it like crazy. It bordered a private cattail slough, which is always full of deer. And it, it had acorns in it. Like it had clear, like they were feeding right there. And I walked right by it, went and hunted the other spot and was sitting there and I was like, why, what are you doing, man? Like, yeah, I was hunting with Dylan on that one. And I'm like, dude, we got to get out. We got to go figure that tree out. So we got out of my river bottom, pinch point stuff and went back over there and had to set up on the ground because there's no trees there, and ended up, you know, at last light, having a nice buck, walk out, shot him. And it was like the, that was so simple. The only difficult part was getting past my, my brain and like, like getting past what I believed I knew better than what they were showing me. And I. So I think that's like, that's the in season thing, scouting thing that you're talking about. When you go. When you're like, I'm going to be okay with what I get wrong and allow, like, allow myself to just go, okay, show me. You know, like, you see these guys, you go out into a over the counter unit for elk and they're like, I'm going to walk down every ridge and bugle all day long till I get a response. And it's like, you could do that for 10 days in a row and not have an elk respond to you. And so, like, if you do it for two days and they don't, then what are you going to do? You're going to keep doing that for another eight, you know, but that's, that's the mindset.
- [29:44]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah, yeah, because at some point it's going to work, or at least that's what the belief is. And then, you know, instead of just finding the sign or finding the wallow or, you know, like, because they might, you know, all of those elk have probably been bugled at, you know, many, many times on this in the same fashion. You know, they hear the gravel road crunch or the boots crunch, hear bugle, right? Like, look up and go, nope. And then they just go back to doing what they're doing.
- [30:10]
Tony Peterson
Well, yeah, and I mean, that's the. There's so much danger in that mindset, right? Like, it's just. There's like a, just like a sort of a flow state to hunting that if you can plug into it and just open yourself up to it, you're like, okay, I'm okay getting this wrong. Like, and tomorrow if I try this and I get it wrong, I can see by the forecast that I'll have a Chance to sneak into this spot and check it out. And I think that's the difference, right? Like, the. The in season scouting thing, I think people could take that and be like, well, yeah, I go look around for rubs or whatever. It's like, no, like, there's more to it, right? Like, are you. You gotta. You gotta really go find where you believe he's Hannibal and then figure out how to hunt it. And there's like, a difference to that. You know, it's the same thing. Like, you know, we. We all use trail cameras like crazy, and so many people are basing whether they'll go hunting on their trail cameras. And I'm like, you're just not learning what you think you are. Like, you. You're. You think you're making a safe decision, right? And. And you can learn a lot from trail cameras. Like, they can tell you just as much about where not to hunt as where to hunt. And I think we don't look at it that way, you know, or if it's like, you really want to, like, kind of babysit this spot, great. But what about the other areas? Like, go, learn. Go. If you have a chance to hunt, go hunt there. Like, you know, try to figure that stuff out, because that's how you learn, you know? I mean, you know this as well as anybody. One of the things that just changed me as a hunter was when I started traveling and hunting public land. You just kind of gotta go. Like, if you. If I drive to South Dakota and I have four days to hunt, and it's mid October and it's hot, it's like, I. I'm not gonna.
- [31:45]
Field and Stream Host
Still gotta hunt, right?
- [31:47]
Tony Peterson
And. And yeah, you know, if it's September and you have four days and it's. Everybody's like, you can't hunt mornings. You're like, well, I'm not gonna take half of my sits away, so what do I. How do I. How do I solve for this? And the more you do that, the more you realize, like, we have built. We have, like, created a lot of excuses and a lot of rules that don't really. We don't need to follow them. We don't need to listen to them. Like, there's. There's so. You know, it's. It's so different. And this is one of the things that I've always struggled with, with creating whitetail content is. My experience is limited to my experience. And so there's. There's whitetail behaviors, and there's certain things about the landscape and food sources and seasonal timing. That sort of transcend. Right. But I'm not going to give a dude in Georgia a lot of good advice.
- [32:35]
Field and Stream Host
Exactly.
- [32:35]
Tony Peterson
You know what I mean? Just. Just like, when I was growing up, and I'm like, man, this guy that lives in Iowa seems to have. He seems to be hunting in a candyland. Like, I can't even understand passing up the bucks that he's passing up. And, you know, but you're like, that's where I have to go for information. He's successful, and, you know, the landscapes change so much now that you can kind of curate your information. But I always struggle with that because I'm like, I don't. I don't want you guys to think I know what to tell you, like. Right. Because I don't.
- [33:04]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah. Well, it's like, for me, like, almost the entirety of my, like, archery, whitetail hunting experience has been on relatively flat ground. And so, like, even diving into, like, mountain country or bluff country or whatever, it's like, that's a whole different experience for me. And, like, in a set of, you know, things that I would have to learn, like, to make sure that, you know, my wind is correct or whatever. Whereas, like, you know, if I'm hunting North Dakota, it's like, well, the wind's out of the west. I don't have to worry about any thermals.
- [33:30]
Tony Peterson
Right, Right.
- [33:31]
Field and Stream Host
It's just blowing.
- [33:32]
Tony Peterson
Right. Yeah. And. And then you think about that, and you go, all right, well, in North Dakota, you can play that, like a. A straight line win super easy. Right. Like, I set up on this tree line because they'll pass through in here or whatever. And then you take that flat country and you cover it in woods. And now you're like, okay, they could get around me just as easily as they can go in front of me, because you don't have any terrain to funnel them. And so now that. That straight line wind is, like, not so simple. And then. So then you have to learn that. And I mean, it's just. That's. That, to me, is honestly the fun part. Like, it's. It's the most frustrating. But when you put yourself in those positions and you're like, I just. I got to figure this out. Like, I just have to. That's when. That's when it gets fun.
- [34:14]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah. And I think, for me, what. I think one of the biggest things on travel hunting like, that, I think helps me be successful is I kind of go back to the basics, like, when I go and do a trip somewhere else, because, like, it's like I'm not going to overthink this. Like, I'm going to go, I'm going to go to the spots on the map that should hold deer. Like, pinch points, funnels, like, all that stuff. It's like, okay, here's an ag field over here. Here's a little funnel of, you know, trees. Here's, you know, bedding over here. Or what appears like it could be bedding or a big grass field or a cattail slew or whatever. And I go, like, I really shrink it down to, like, well, the, the deer should move through here. And I think that's helped me a ton. Whereas, like, spots that I've hunted for lots of years and I have lots of cameras and like, all this information that I'm trying to, like, have all these data points and put all that together and figure that out. Gosh, most time I, like, overthink it and like, I end up, like, going and blowing something up because I tried to get too cute with it and sneak in some, some way that I didn't really need to. And so, yeah, sometimes I have to, like, take a, a big step back and just be like, okay, what a deer need typically, or what are they doing this time of year? And then work it backwards from there and not be like, well, if I walk down this little swale, I can get up into this tree, and then they should filter past that. It's like, no, just go hunt where deer typically move through and, and then, you know, spend the time in the woods. Don't be, you know, don't spend so much time driving around or trying to, like, you know, figure it out. Just go hunt and then learn what the deer moving or whatever, whatever the animal is like, and then just go from there.
- [35:54]
Tony Peterson
Dude, what you said there about what do the deer need? I. To me, when people are like, I think there's like, two big mistakes people make, especially, you know, in the traveling hunter a new place. It's like they focus on trying to find a big one first instead of trying to just figure out the deer. That's super hard to do because you just, you're going to overlook so much stuff that could be, you know, like, pretty essential to your plan. But the other thing is, I, I, I do this a lot, you know, Like, I have a reputation for being a guy who hunts water because I talk about a lot, and I'm like, it's just. Because it's simple. If I go to a place with limited water, duh, you know, like, I, I don't do that. In some places, you know, like that, those northern Wisconsin hunts, there's water everywhere. And then, so then you're like, what is limited? It goes not cover. They can bed anywhere. So now you're like, food, right? So then it's like, which acorn? You know, like, where are the acorns? Or where's the, where's something that, that is going to be in play? Or that might be a browse line between, you know, an old clear cut and a new one. But I, I, I tell people that a lot. Like I have a lot of people reach out to me throughout the season, like, I can't find one here. And I'm like, what's limited? Like I think about. So you kind of have to order that in an importance too. Because what we do is we go, all right, well I'm hunting, I don't know, Oklahoma, I'm on public land and I have to find what's limited. And so you think of it from the deer's perspective and you go, well, they don't have this, this big chunk of timber, doesn't have any fields around it. It's like, okay, well are there, are there feeders across the fence on private, like, so is there something like that? But even before that I just go, the thing that's most important to those deer, because that's a high hunter density area, is places people don't go first. They can go eat the acorns at night or they can walk a mile away into the ag field that you think that those deer aren't hitting. And so we, we tend to look at it through the deer's perspective and be like, well, if I were a deer and I lived out in North Dakota, I would need bedding, cover. It's okay. That might be the case if you're hunting, you know, private land or something. Or maybe you just found a good, you know, section of public that doesn't have a lot of pressure. But if you're in Pennsylvania, you, you have to factor in like the most important thing for them is to not get killed. So their limited resource is a place where they can go unmolested day by day and live there during the daylight hours and you know, maybe get up, browse around, maybe do their thing a little bit, lay down some sign, but not exp themselves. And so that, that's another thing. Like when, when you see a lot of the information that comes out of the industry, you know, these guys will be like, oh, well, it's late October, so they're eating brassicas and you're like, yeah, but they don't have to think about the hunting pressure. Right, right, right. But they're not. They can think solely on what do the deer need and what should the deer be doing. Most people can't, you know, and it's that, that is something that if you have just that opportunity to hunt deer without the other people factor, they're not that hard to figure out. It's when you get those confounding factors of other people coming in and threatening those deer's lives that everything changes. And so that to me, mostly is priority number one. And instead of thinking like, well, I just got to solve for why the deer would go water here and not there or whatever, like, it doesn't work that way, man. Like, you gotta, you gotta think about that first because survival is the most important.
- [39:26]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So now that we've really nerded out about deer hunting and travel hunting, which I. I could talk about for hours. How did you. So you're working with meat eater now. How did you end up, like, what was your journey into the hunting space? Like, where did that start, man?
- [39:47]
Tony Peterson
Growing up, I wanted to be a writer, okay. But I grew up in Chatfield, Minnesota, which is 2,000 people and half of them are dairy farmers. And you just don't do stuff like that. Right.
- [40:02]
Field and Stream Host
Was there something that inspired you, like, or like, what was the writer bug?
- [40:06]
Tony Peterson
I've always loved words, man. Like, I've always loved to read and I've always loved to write. I just have, and, you know, like growing up reading Field and Stream and Gene Hill's column and just like real writing, you know, and a lot of non outdoor industry stuff, but I was always just compelled to write. But it was like, you're never. This is not a thing you can do. So you just do this for fun. And eventually, you know, went to college. I went to college to be a lawyer. I realized that I was not going to take that path and I needed to get out with a degree because I had dumped enough money into it. So I ended up getting a poli sci degree, but I. I had to get a minor, so I got a creative writing minor. And as soon as I started doing that, I was like, oh, this is what I should have done all along. Even though, like my entire life I was literally told, this is just like not a. This is not a path you could take. Like, you will never be a professional writer. And just on a whim, I reached out to some editors and started writing for Outdoor News here in Minnesota a little bit and got a tiny taste of it. And I was like, man, if I could just.
- [41:10]
Field and Stream Host
Awesome.
- [41:11]
Tony Peterson
Right, Right. Like, it's just. I mean, you know, and back then, it's mostly an ego thing because you're like, senior byline in there. Your photos or whatever was just. It was like, holy. Like, I can't believe this happened.
- [41:20]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah.
- [41:20]
Tony Peterson
And, you know, it sort of spiraled from there, and I ended up getting a job offer at Peterson's Bow Hunting, which was just a very lucky coincidence. Ended up getting to take that job, eventually. Moved up to Brainerd, worked there for a couple years, and it. And, you know, housing market crashed. We got bought out twice by private equity. 40% of us got let go in one fell swoop. And I was like, I gotta figure this out. You know? Like, I. I have to figure this out. And it was a real eye opener to me, to, you know, sort of, you know, like, I didn't. I'm not gonna say, like, I sat on the throne, right? But I. I was an associate editor for one of the two largest bow hunting magazines. And back then, magazines had some weight, you know, like a different. A different level. And going from that, where people. People could. They. They wanted something from me, you know, like, if you. If you manufacture sites or releases or whatever, like, I could help you make money just by being in that position. And it wasn't because it was me. It was just because it was. I had the rule. And then you end up out on your ass, and you start calling those contacts, and they're like, you know, very few people care. And I had a couple, you know, John Hafner, the photographer. John helped me a ton. Super good guy. Taught me how to take photos to some extent. Like, told me what to buy. Like, he was. He was one of those people who's just like, we're buds, man. Like, what do you need? And I had a couple editors like that who just. They're like, yeah, I'll give you work. And. And it just. I just, like, hung on, just barely. I mean, at one point, I was. I was freelance writing. I was selling fishing gear at Cabela's at night because I could get benefits then.
- [43:01]
Field and Stream Host
Okay.
- [43:03]
Tony Peterson
I was selling wine. And I had one other job, but, I mean, it was like. I was just like, whatever I can do to get paid to sort of just keep this thing going. And then, you know, I ended up. When I got laid off, I told the publisher of Peterson's Bow Hunting, who is also the publisher of Bow Hunter. I was like, I'm just going to make you regret this. I don't know how. Like, I, I really appreciate him. I still, I'm still friends with him to this day, but I was like, I'm going to. You lit a fire. And a couple years after getting laid off, he called me up, he said, we can't ignore you anymore because you're writing for everyone. And I got the equipment editor role when Kurt Wells got bumped up to editor at Bowhunter. And so that was a. It sort of felt like a. Okay. Like, I've kind of like made it, you know, I still had imposter syndrome, like crazy, but I'm like, at least, at least I have like a connection to this kind of iconic brand. And, you know, I'm back in. You know, like, you're kind of like back in the club and from there it was just like a learning experience. And, you know, you do that. And all I wanted to do was write. And of course you get pushed to do TV because that was where it was going. And I fought that tooth and nail and still do, but it's like you just, you know, like, I'm like, it doesn't matter. But I've never, I've never been drawn to that side like that, that comes to and becomes a part of the job. But I was never like, I want to be a host of a TV show. Like, that's all I want to do. I'm like, I want to sit at a computer and type and then I want to go train my dog, you know. But that just opened up a bunch of doors. And then, you know, started doing the podcast thing because of course that's. Here's the next thing, you know, and you can see that coming and that. And the podcast thing is different because I feel like you can learn a hell of a lot doing it. And it's just a different. It's a total. There's a reason it's so popular. Like, there's a reason they're so popular. And then, you know, along the way when you start doing podcasts and then meteater comes out of the woodwork and starts to blow up and you kind of have connections, you go back and forth and they, they reached out to me for some whitetail stuff and, you know, I was like, oh, this is cool. It'll work for meat eater. And it just sort of spiraled into a full time gig and it's just, I don't know, I. I feel very lucky. Like, I feel like I've gotten a lot of opportunities along the way that I probably didn't deserve. Especially because I've. I've kind of been like a contrarian. Like, I didn't, I didn't really lean into a lot of the stuff that people do. You know, like the social media thing and like the personal brand thing. I was like, I don't. I just want to make cool shit and like hunt and talk about it and like showcase my style. And so I feel just very lucky.
- [45:40]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah, well, you've been able to do really cool stuff with it. I mean, like the. I think it probably helped you being a contrarian and like doing it your own way, because I feel like that fits in with like the meat eater vibe quite a bit where it's like, I feel like half the time Steve doesn't even want a TV show. He's just like, just like lights likes to do all of the stuff that we like to do and just like somebody just started following around with a camera. These guys like, get out of here. But, but no, I mean, it's been, it's been fun to watch from the outside looking in to see you help, like, develop that brand and like bring voice to that brand in different spaces. And I mean, the fact that we got to share the turkey woods together on a meat eater hunt, which was like the, the worst turkey hunt ever. But we, right, we went and did it and I had a great time. Would like to, you know, have a little like, I'd like to like do. Do a do over on that one and go hunt somewhere with like slightly more density of turkeys at some point.
- [46:43]
Tony Peterson
I know, dude, it. But it's you, you run into that with. When you're making tv, right, where you're like, I want to go. I don't want to be unsuccessful. Like, I don't want to do a show where we don't kill something. But at the same time, I've always felt like with that kind of stuff, it's sort of my job to do the hard stuff. Like, don't do. You know, because like a turkey show, right, you can go to a lot of places and kill birds pretty easy. And I'm like, yeah, I don't think the world needs more of that, right? Like, I don't, I don't think the world needs more, you know, 180s walking out on food plots with names like that's. That's covered. And I'm not saying don't do that, but I'm just like, that's represented very well. But the downside of that is when you do this other shit, you're like, you could look like you don't know what you're doing at all because it's very difficult. And it's like, you're always that. But again, that's an ego thing, right? Like, my ego is like, go hunt somewhere. You can kill something. But a different part of me is like, just try to do something that the audience might, it might vibrate on a different level for them. And it, that shit's hard, man, because it's like, you know, I mean, you get offers and there's. You could, you could do a lot of stuff and be successful almost always, but you'd be doing stuff that's, you know, way over represented by a lot of people in the industry and is, is now mostly pure entertainment. Like, no, you know, people aren't going to take anything away from that and be like, I'm going to try that on my lease or I'm going to try that when I go, you know, to Nebraska or whatever. And so it's like, it's always kind of a push pull thing.
- [48:17]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah, yeah. And I like, I felt like I was like I had gone through a really good spring, like, you know, hunting western stuff and turkeys and having a great spring. And then we, that was the last trip of the year for me that spring. And man, it was. Well, we had bad weather and like everything that, you know, low density bad weather spot that neither of us had been for a long time. So like the number of, tons of pressure there was. Yeah, lots of pressure, the whole thing. And I, I would do that hunt different. Obviously hindsight's always 20 20, but I did have a great time, like, Right. Even though. And I could have shot a jake, you know, like, but I was like, you know, I had already killed four birds or whatever that spring and I was like, I just don't need to shoot a jake for tv. Like, I don't care. Like, I don't want to shoot jake. There's only like that group of jakes is the only one that lives in this like 40,000 acres. Like, well, let's let them propagate. Let's let them kind of do their jake thing and maybe bring a few more birds back.
- [49:15]
Tony Peterson
Right. But I mean, that is, I mean there are people hunting there who, that's their spot. So when, when you go in there or you know, when we go in there and there's a truck park there, like that's, that's that dude's lived reality, you know. And so I think it's as long as you're careful about what you show, because I don't want to blow up anybody's spots. But, like, if we step into that world or we maintain a foothold in that world, I think it's, like, so much more beneficial than going the other way with it, because that guy can't ever go the other way with it. You know what I mean? So, like, I. I just think there's, like, a flow to this stuff. But, yeah, I mean, you. You get out there and you're like, this is. This is a real hunt. Like, there's a. There's a very real chance after four days, we will not kill a turkey. And that sucks, because we're like, you're comparing it to industry standards, like, I am, you know, but it's not. So what it is. It's just a hunt with an extra challenge of the camera guys and whatever else. But it's just like, this is just real. Like, the chips are going to fall. All they do.
- [50:18]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah. And all you can do is control what you can control and. And go hunt the way you know how to hunt. It's either going to happen or it's not. So I think. I mean, I think we showed that. Well, like, right.
- [50:29]
Tony Peterson
I. I almost shot myself right out of the industry on that one, because I called in that hen that came in strutting, and I was like, where is that beard? Like, where's the beard? Like, you see a strutting bird come in, and you're like, safety off, ready to go. And then you're like, I think that's a hen.
- [50:47]
Field and Stream Host
And, man, he's like, literally the size of a basketball. Just out there with strutting with a tail fan.
- [50:52]
Tony Peterson
Right, right.
- [50:56]
Field and Stream Host
Oh, that's awesome. Well, so you kind of alluded to it, chasing smallmouth, but now that we've kind of exhausted, like, the hunting side of things, what do you like to do? Like, what's your. Like, we've talked about fishing smallmouth together before. Is that your, like, go to. To, like, step away from the hunting side and just go, like, have a good time, like, on the water. Like, is that the balance?
- [51:21]
Tony Peterson
I mean, all fishing is for me. I mean, I. I like bass a lot. You know, I'm allergic to fish. I can't eat fish. And. Okay, I'm just not. I. For whatever. However I was created, I do not have the walleye gene. Like, I grew up. My. My dad walleye fished and crappie fished. Everybody fished for meat. And I was like, it from a young Age. I'm like, can we go throw spoons for northerns? Just like, I want to cast and just see more water and, you know, trolling along, like, feeling for a little bump on the bottom, to me was like, I liked catching them, right? Like, I liked. I would. I would. If all. If somebody waved a magic wand and all the bass disappeared, I'd fish walleyes tomorrow. And it would be like, whatever. Like, I'll figure it out. But it was just always like, I just want to cast. And I want. I want a fish that's gonna like. I like fish that will hit top waters, you know, And I. And to be fair, in the last couple years, I've caught a couple walleyes on top that are schooled up in the fall, which is nuts. But primarily, I like something that will look up at a frog or whatever and be like, I am going to destroy that. And so, yeah, I mean, it's. It's really a. It's sort of this immersive activity. I look at it the same way I look at pheasant hunting. When I'm. When I'm casting for bass, I'm not looking at my phone. Like, I don't feel a draw to doom scroll or, like, stop or whatever. My. My focus is there. It's the same thing. I wade into that cattail Sue. I usually don't come out till we have a limit or we're going to the next spot or whatever, but you're not. You're not sitting there and, like, what's. Like, just mindlessly opening Instagram, like, you're in the thing. And anything that I can find like, that now for my life in fishing is a big part of it. You know, trout fishing, whatever it is, it is such a nice way to sort of unplug and not, you know, for me, not have the business aspect of it, be, you know, weighing in on it in addition to all the other stuff. So, yeah, it's. You need escapes like that, I think.
- [53:20]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no. You 100. Do I. You know, I went muskie fishing for the first time this summer. And, like, you said, like, you know, like, I'm literally, like, you're literally just cast after cast after cast after cast. Like, you're just trying to target these fish and try to. And that whole time on the river, like, I pulled my phone out a couple times to take some video clips or snap some photos or whatever, but it was like just the three of us in the boat floating down the river, just having a conversation, but then, like, so focused on the task at hand. It was like at that point I was like, I didn't even know how bad I needed that until we were like three quarters of the way through the float and I was like, oh, man, I feel a hundred percent better right now than I have in a while because I've just spent. Like, you get spooled up in your own little things in your own world, and it's. It's easy to, you know, be like, I just need to be working. Like, I need to be working on this or that. And sometimes, like, you can't. That's hard to be in a space where you can never, like, get out of that because then you're not creative, you're not getting stuff done and you're overwhelmed. And. Yeah, it's amazing what a little bit of escape, whatever it might be, can do for that.
- [54:28]
Tony Peterson
Did you catch muskie?
- [54:29]
Field and Stream Host
Did. Yeah. So that's a good one. It was, you know, probably like 30 inches. I mean, nothing giant, but, like fishing river muskie. Like, I was Jack. First one ever that I've caught.
- [54:39]
Tony Peterson
Nice.
- [54:39]
Field and Stream Host
I was. Yeah, I was fired up.
- [54:41]
Tony Peterson
Yeah, man, that muskie thing, I. I've fished muskies a little bit, but never, like, I've never taken it very seriously. But this. This summer, I just had a random. I had a week to go fish northern Wisconsin, and I'm like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna use onyx fish and I'm gonna. I'm gonna filter through and I'm going to find lakes that have muskies, smallies, and largemouth. And I'm just going to go fish new lakes every day. But I'm going to kind of try to catch muskies just because I. I'm like, you. I don't. I've caught a few. Never, never once intentionally. And I caught two that week that were like 40 and had, you know, had a bunch of follows. And I was like, I feel like somebody almost handed me heroin where I'm like.
- [55:29]
Field and Stream Host
I was gonna say I was like, how addicted are you now, dude?
- [55:32]
Tony Peterson
Well, you know, and I. I didn't have my daughters with me then. I. You know, I fish with my daughters all the time and I've always. Anytime I've ever been, you know, you fish, you know, leech or malax or some of these lakes that. That are known for muskies here around where I live, you're always aware of it. You're like, should I throw something that I could pick one up on versus, you know, like, if I Throw a Senko or something. I'm. I'm not going to catch a Muscana probably, but if I'm throwing a buzz bait or a swim bait or something, like, you might, you know, so you kind of. You cheated a little bit that way. But to actually go out and be like, man, I'm gonna. I'm gonna see what I can do about this. And then you boat a couple, you're like, I get it. I like, I get it, man.
- [56:11]
Field and Stream Host
I was. I was shopping, like, immediately after. Like, I was just, like, in the back seat riding back after we had fished, and I was, like, shopping for, like, bait caster rigs. I was like. I was like, how much is it to get into a muskie rod? And like, I was like, I was. Because we, you know, like, my wife and I were looking at moving to lakes country in Minnesota, and I was like, there's like seven or eight lakes that have big muskie around there. I was like, that could be something I, like, focus on. Like, I was like, I. I could be into that, dude.
- [56:40]
Tony Peterson
It's. I mean, it's just another. It's just another challenge. Right? Like, it's just another thing that's not easy. If you do it enough, it'll work and. Or, you know, if you do it enough, you'll see some follows or whatever. Like, you. It's a progression thing, but it's. It's just no matter what you do, other than, you know, starting to get into the live scope debate and that kind of, like, generally, it's just going to be very challenging and very rewarding. Like, I would bet the crossover or like, the Venn diagram of, like, hardcore bow hunters and hardcore musky fishers is like a complete circle.
- [57:16]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah.
- [57:16]
Tony Peterson
Because they kind of feel the same, you know, And Mark said that. Mark, I've. I've never fished tarpon down in Florida, wherever, but Mark's been really hooked on that. And he said that he's like, it was like bow hunting for fish, but not bow fishing. Like, it was like, the mentality and the mindset, and I'm like, dangerous ground, but God dang, that shit's hard.
- [57:36]
Field and Stream Host
He go start to get into that stuff, and then it's like, okay, here's another 10 grand I'm gonna throw at this every year because it's very fun.
- [57:41]
Tony Peterson
Right? But, you know, I. I think about that. I don't. I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but next summer, I'm gonna try to get my daughters on a muskie and I just, I look at that stuff and I'm like, that's just such a cool opportunity that those fish are even out there, you know, like that you just have a chance. And I keep thinking about this. I know, I know people get sick of it, but I've been writing about this and talking about this a lot. You know, like when you see the resident, non resident hate thing in the, in the hunting space, I just look at that and I go, man, you're just taking away opportunities for kind of a short term gain unless it's like a real resource thing. But I, I'm like, I want all of us to have more opportunities. Like, I don't want us to gatekeep this stuff and like take away opportunities because that's just gonna, that is a slippery slope we are already on.
- [58:31]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah.
- [58:32]
Tony Peterson
And I don't wanna, like, I think in terms of what my daughters will be able to do, I'm like, they'll probably never elk hunt, you know, like, probably not. And there's, there's a lot of stuff and I, I look at, you know, like muskie fishing. You know, I live in the land of 10,000 lakes, right. We have people who come from all over to fish Minnesota. And I will listen to people about that and I'm like, man, I would rather have somebody from Iowa come here and be able to fish muskies if I can go back down there and hunt something. But it doesn't like, it's not working. We're like in a race to just exclude and that in the outdoors. That's a, that's a bad deal, man.
- [59:07]
Field and Stream Host
That's a very dangerous direction to be going because it, that's, that'll be the fastest way that it leads to like just an elite group of people that are getting to do it. That's just going to be people that can afford it. And that's not what this is all about. It's, you know, this should be a place where everybody, whether regardless of what outdoor pursuit you have, it needs to be something that everybody can go access in some way.
- [59:30]
Tony Peterson
Yeah. And I mean, I think about this with like, you know, the trend in big game hunting. Right. You know, tightening up the. And I should say this. Like, I understand there are resource issues. Like, I understand there are places and there are animals that need to be like, we need to babysit them. Right. Like if the population's crashing for whatever reason, I get it. Totally. But when it's just a perception thing that there are too many people here. I got, man, maybe try A little harder, like maybe scout a little more. Like maybe use your home field advantage. I know that makes me sound kind of like a prick, but I'm like, you have. Yeah, I think about this a lot when I see people who are like outwardly bitching about that stuff and I'm like, you have more advantages than I do. You live in Montana, you have mules on down the line. Like, why can't you do it? But I can show up and I can do it, right? Like maybe your attitude sucks and you should try harder. Like literally instead of being like, well, because I can't get it done the way that I want to, with the effort I want to put in, I want to take away from you. And I, and I know this is like a heavily nuanced thing, but every time that we lose a hunting opportunity, it generally doesn't come back. And I always think about that. Like in Minnesota we used to have a moose hunt that was a once in a lifetime moose hunt. And when they started kicking around the idea shutting that down short term to study it, I'm like, we will never see this again. Like, and, and we, you know, it's been 15 years or 17 years, like you'll never have that again. And we, you know, we go so hard and be like, well, the anti hunters are trying to take away that Florida bear hunt. We got to fight for that. And it's like, man, I lose opportunities all the time to other hunters. So you know, and I'm not saying like, yeah, I don't want the anti hunters to be able to have a single ounce of say in how we manage a bear population in Florida. That's insane. But at the same time I'm like, I have that problem and I have lots of hunters who would take away my, my opportunities or my daughter's opportunities.
- [61:31]
Field and Stream Host
Just as fast just to go to, just to travel across state lines and go hunt somewhere else. Right?
- [61:35]
Tony Peterson
And like you said, what's going to happen is like, okay, well I, I'll probably stop coming there because I can't afford it, right? Like I'm not going to be able to lease a place out of state. Somebody can. And that state's going to sell those non resident tags to somebody so that permission based farm you've had for 20 years, somebody from out of state might come knocking and pay them more than you can. And we are creating this situation. I don't know, I mean, I literally don't know what we do about it. I like the private land, open to the public programs and I think we should fund those more. I think opening up more land is sort of the, probably the best solution or the best thing to try at.
- [62:15]
Field and Stream Host
Least short term solution like the private. Because buying land and having state agencies run it or federal agencies run it is too expensive at this point, just with land prices. The next frontier has to be more like programs like Walk in or plots or the PATH program which is now in three states and you know, Block Management, Montana, you know, that's, that, that will keep that hurdle down a little bit. But like the man, like I live in North Dakota, like I get to hunt a lot of stuff but like when I look at how much I spend on even just applying for out of state tags, it's, it's pretty wild at this point. And if I didn't do this for a living where like I create content and travel and, and you know, do podcast stuff and like all this stuff like I, there's no way I would apply or you know, try to get as many tags as I do. Not remotely, no.
- [63:07]
Tony Peterson
Yeah, no, but that's, but so, and you're right like that, those, those programs that tax, incentivize or pay private landowners to open up their property. I'm like, I, if you wanted to raise, I mean I'm a non resident in 49 states, right. Like Randy Newberg says, like if you want to raise my tag price by X amount and dump that right into that fund and if that, if I can look at that and it's transparent, I'm like, okay, I'll pay more for that and all the residents will benefit from it. Like there, there are answers to this stuff that aren't just jack up the price and kick people out. Yeah, but that's what we, that's what we do.
- [63:45]
Field and Stream Host
That's what we're doing. Yeah. And if we could have it, you know, like a lot of like states will have like an opt in. You know, like let's say North Dakota where I live for instance, you can opt in to pay for the plots program, you know, or South Dakota, you can put money into the walk in program or whatever it is. But I wish they would do it as an opt out. You know, be like, okay, I'm applying for the license, there's an extra 25 bucks in there and you can select to not have that go. But like rather than like having to click like yes, I'd like to add 25 bucks, have it be like, no, I'd not like my $25 to go because then they'll raise More money. And like if, like you said, the transparency is the biggest thing, be like, I'd almost like an email like when I apply. Be like that extra 50 bucks that cost you, that it costs you this year that opened up two more acres of public land.
- [64:29]
Tony Peterson
Right? Well, I mean this is, this is a, we don't need to get into this. But I think transparency from the government on where our tax money goes would be great. Right?
- [64:41]
Field and Stream Host
It would be really great.
- [64:42]
Tony Peterson
But it would be, I mean, on a small scale, state agency wise, wide or federal wise, even like that would not be that hard to do to be like this. This fund has been funded to X amount of level because of residents and non resident license prices, whatever. This money opened up 300,000 acres for 20, 26 that everyone can hunt. Yeah, stuff like that is very doable today. And it, and at least it would be an attempt. You know, maybe it doesn't work. Right. Like, maybe there's still too much crowding and maybe the resource still suffers, whatever. But I'm like, we have one solution a lot of times and I think in the long run that's going to be something that really, really kills hunting. And I don't, I don't want to see that. I know that, you know, there was a huge pushback or like not a huge, but there was a pushback against the R3, the recruiting initiative to get more people in the outdoors. Like, we have too many people in the outdoors. I'm like, what do you mean? Like, what does that mean? Like, okay, so the trailhead you've been hunting forever has more people. Okay, what about the other seven that are within a half hour of your house? Or what about hunting?
- [65:54]
Field and Stream Host
You know, like, yeah, just because the place that you've always hunted a few more people found doesn't mean the rest of those spots have changed or, you know, like it's an opportunity to go explore something new. And I get the frustration, but like just trying to think of, I think maybe it was Ben o'. Brien. He was like, just because there's more people at the bus stop that you normally go to doesn't mean there's more people. Like, right. Collectively so.
- [66:19]
Tony Peterson
Right. Well, yeah. And I mean I always again, kind of back to what we were talking about with limited resources and stuff before, I. I'm like, you either. It used to be you just had to go where people wouldn't go and that, that message got out so much that, you know, you go hunt in.
- [66:35]
Field and Stream Host
The back where everybody doesn't go.
- [66:37]
Tony Peterson
Right. So you now you have to be a little more tactical about it and figure out, like, where. Where really is that now? And if. And if it isn't all that available, because there's a lot of places where, like, I remember, I don't know, six, seven years ago, I was down in northern Missouri hunting turkeys. And you can only hunt till 1 o', clock, and I'm like, I'm going to go scout a bunch of public land. Because I was kicking, kicking around the idea of going back down there to whitetail hunt. And I didn't find a spot where I was like, there's not evidence of people somewhere. It sort of felt like when I. When I'm on public land here in the cities. So then you're like, now I can't go where people don't go because people go everywhere generally.
- [67:13]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah.
- [67:13]
Tony Peterson
Now I have to go when people won't go. So it has to be 80 degrees on the opener or Oct. 7, when everybody's waiting for the rut or something, like. And you see the same thing on a. On a sort of a condensed scale out west. You know, I mean, a gun season's a little different because those are, you know, those are kind of a free for all and they're usually a short season. So that's like a sort of a different deal. But you have the advantage of a gun. But a lot of bow hunts out there. It's like, man, if you can't go, if you can't find a place where people don't go, then you have to try to find a time to go when people won't. And it might be just because it's a Tuesday morning or it might be because there's a heat wave or it's raining or something, but there are ways, like, there, there are workarounds to that stuff.
- [67:54]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Well, do you have any. Before we wrap this up, do you have any big projects that you're working on right now, like through Meat Eater, that you can talk about or.
- [68:05]
Tony Peterson
Well, allude to anything, you know, nothing that I can talk about. I can just say that I'm. I'm really, at this point in my life, I'm just really trying to work on stuff that I think is. I. I think the key to what we do, that, that makes the best content is entertainment that is secretly educational. Like, I think. I think that's why Rogan's so popular. Like, people like to. On or whatever. Being a meathead, I'm like, that dude's curious. There's. There's an entertainment level because they're good conversations. But you, you can learn about a. An infinite amount of topics on that podcast, you know, with enough time and enough guests, whatever. And so I always look at that and I go, what. What can I do? That's like on a. On, on that scale, like. Or, like it's a smaller scale, but like sort of in that lane where you're like, it's going to appear to be entertaining, but you can slide some education about, like, the land or the animals or the tactics or something. And so I'm just like, really looking at opportunities like that. And there's, there's cool out there. Like, there's stuff coming up. So.
- [69:17]
Field and Stream Host
Well, Well, I, I, obviously, I don't know what it is either, but I'm excited for whatever you've got coming down the pipe. So it's the best place to, for people to find you, just like through all of the Meat Eater channels right now.
- [69:30]
Tony Peterson
Yep. Yeah. You know, I do two podcasts over there. I do foundations podcasts on the Wired to Hunt network, and I do one all about dogs called Houndations on Cal of the Wild Feed. Right for the, right for the site all the time. You know, the shows show up there. And I mean, anybody who is familiar with Meat Eater sees that we are involved in all kinds of, like.
- [69:53]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah.
- [69:54]
Tony Peterson
You know, constantly. I mean, it's, it's a weird. It's cool in a way because I might, you know, do that grouse hunt like I just did and get my ass kicked up in Northern Minnesota. And then I might be judging a cooking show a week. You know what I mean?
- [70:08]
Field and Stream Host
Right.
- [70:08]
Tony Peterson
And stuff where I find myself and I'm like, what's going on? Like, what. What is going on with my life?
- [70:13]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah. But yeah, it's all cool because, like, you and everybody else on the team, like, it's kind of. You're all doing that. So like, all, you know, like, the amount of, you know, written content and video content and everything else that's coming out of that network has been. Has been fun to watch. So it's been, it's been cool to see that kind of revival of such a giant brand like that doing it. And, you know, I just appreciate you hopping on with us at Field and Stream and, you know, sharing some of that knowledge.
- [70:39]
Tony Peterson
Dude, I love Field of Stream, man. I used to write for Field of Stream.
- [70:42]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah, well, let's go back and find some, some old, some of your old articles and post those up on the clips here.
- [70:48]
Tony Peterson
What you need to do is get Dave Herto on and talk to him about the time I took him hunting in South Dakota.
- [70:53]
Field and Stream Host
Deal.
- [70:57]
Tony Peterson
We had a great hunt. It was an ass kicker, but we had a great hunt.
- [71:00]
Field and Stream Host
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks again for hopping on with me and yeah, I'm just, you know, looking forward to everything else you got coming up and just glad to be a small part of this brand doing this stuff and having these conversations.
- [71:11]
Tony Peterson
So I appreciate it, buddy.
- [71:14]
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