← Legends of the Wild, A Field And Stream Production | Hunting, Fishing and the Outdoors
Legends of the Wild, A Field And Stream Production | Hunting, Fishing and the Outdoors
Episode 23 - Saving Turkey Hunting History: The Wild Turkey Archives Story
00:51:43
A race against time to save the stories, footage, and legacy of wild turkey hunting.
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- [00:02]
A
This is Legends of the Wild presented by Field and Stream. Let's get into it. All right. Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Legends of the Wild. This week I have Paul Campbell on with me and we actually, we met for the first time at nwtf, have known about each other like for a little while, but finally got to meet at NWTF and did a little recording there for a project you guys are working on. But just first of all, welcome to the show. Excited to talk.
- [00:37]
B
Sam, thanks for having me on, man. Really, really appreciate it. And excited to talk about the new project that we're working on.
- [00:44]
A
Absolutely, absolutely. So, you know, I admittedly I didn't want to do a deep dive into everything you guys are up to. Like, I kind of have like a very high level idea of what you guys are working on. But why don't you just, first of all, why don't you just dive in and talk about kind of the, the organization that you're running and like what that all entails.
- [01:09]
B
So back in, in almost a year ago, it was kind of, you know, middle of turkey season here in Ohio. Brent Rogers, he's got a turkey hunter from Iowa, a wonderful man. He's an author. He's done a lot of, you know, podcasts about the history of the wild Turkey and literature and art. Just a, just a, just a resource like the resource for, for a lot of those things. So I'm sure folks have seen him, you know, floating around. So Brent called me and said that, hey, we've been talking about, me and this guy, we've been talking about, you know, starting this, this, this project that's focused on wild turkey history and, and it's something that, you know, Brent and I had kind of talked, been talking about for years and some, some, some things that I'm working on. And he's like, I'd like for, I like for you guys to meet and talk and end up being Nathaniel Maddox was the other guy that, that, that is involved with this. And so we decided that we were going to form a non profit. So the, so the company that we started in July of 2025 is the American Wild Turkey Historical Foundation. So we started that nonprofit we started, you're doing some work, doing some fundraising. And the whole purpose of that is to give the, the history, the heritage and the culture of the wild turkey and turkey hunting kind of like a permanent home, right? And bring that history and bring that, that heritage culture. Bring it, bring it to life. So we, we started that and in 2026 and if you've seen anything online. What you've seen is the Wild Turkey Archives. And so that's kind of like the public facing, yeah, outreach if you will, of the American Water Historical Foundation. So right now we've got kind of like two parts of the, of the Wild Turkey archives. It's the, the online archive, which is just a really cool repository of magazine articles and call collections and you know, pictures and stories of historical items and, and people and photographs. There's like a Fred Evans photograph collection. There's, I mean dozens, hundreds of pictures on that website of Fred Evans was a Wild Turkey biologist. I want to see in Vermont, Maine, something like that, Pennsylvania, back in like the, like the 50s and 60s. And we've got his photo collection on there. It's unbelievable. I mean if there's one thing that, that people should look at, you know, check that out. It's so, it's just so neat. I know that you'll see other things that'll just capture you, but so, so the, so that's the online archives and you can go to that wildtrakyarchives.com click on that and that'll pull you into it. And then kind of the other part of the archives is the online streaming platform and mobile or mobile app Roku tv. And it is a, it's like the Netflix of turkey hunting. I mean it's like all these awesome like VHS and DVDs from you know, the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, like the golden era of turkey hunting. There's a bunch of old like trap and transfer research videos on there. You know, we've got almost, you know, we got 100 years worth of turkey content on that thing and it just keeps growing. I mean we have literally thousands of tapes in films that, that Nathaniel and his team are going to digitize, you know, over the, the coming year. So a bunch of old like behind the scenes stuff from, from NWTF throughout the years and from the conventions and from just like just really the history of, of, of the Wild Turkey and what we love, man, the people that have kind of shaped that, that culture. I mean it's just really neat, man. It's just, it's been, it's just so cool seeing that Stu,
- [04:49]
A
man.
- [04:49]
B
That's, that's, that's so that's the two things that we're doing right now. There's, there's a lot more, you know, that we're, we're trying to get funded and get moving and, and just continue that mission.
- [04:59]
A
So where did this like, you know, where did this stem from like, what was the, the passion behind, like, okay, we're going to be the ones to put together all of this information in one location. Like, how did that come about? Hunters and anglers, if you're looking for your next big adventure, it's time to explore Alabama's Black Belt. From trophy deer and spring turkey to quail hunts and world class fishing, this region is a paradise for outdoor enthusiasts. Hardwood bottoms, scenic rivers and open grasslands make every hunt and fishing trip truly unforgettable. Experience. The Black Belt's unmatched outdoors, history and adventure waiting for you. Visit alabamablack beltadventures.org or check them out on social media to plan your next adventure in the Black Belt. As the leader in rural lending. Rural first is dedicated to the communities they serve. And as a cooperative, they offer products and services other lenders aren't always able to, from lot loans to construction loans and more. They'll walk you through the process, providing educational resources to help you make your dream home a reality. Because community is what makes living rural so special, they're committed to investing in the communities we share. Learn how you can get closer to what matters@ruralfirst.com Rural first and closer to what matters are registered trademarks of Farm Credit Mid America NMLS 407249. Equal housing lender loans subject to credit approval and eligibility.
- [06:20]
B
Yeah, man, that's, that's a good, that's a good question. There's, there's a lot of people that really care deeply about the history of the wild turkey and, and care about the preservation of the history and the culture of the wild turkey. And I think that that's, that stuff is becoming more and more popular. I mean, you see, you know, just a big trend towards like kind of the old school camouflage and you just, just there's a, the wing bone turkey calls and the trumpets. I mean, there's been a huge resurgence in those. I mean those are just, you know, really old school style of, of turkey calls. And you know, so, so there's a, there's a big market for that. There's a big desire, you know, for, for people to, to, you know, to, to care about that and kind of consume that content. And so there was, there's definitely, there was definitely a vacuum for that preservation work of, of the history. You know, the NWTF decided to, and I totally understand it. I'm not, I'm not badmouthing this. I'll make that clear. They decided to close down the edge or the museum, the Winchester Museum in Edgefield, South Carolina. I mean, it just. It was awesome. If you never got to go there, you really missed out. It was really neat. It was really well done. It was just so hard to get to. And I think that was the problem. And, and so a portion of that museum is going to Wonders of Wildlife in Springfield. It, you know, Johnny Morris has taken some of it in, but that's just such a small sliver of like the really neat things that, you know, we're at that museum and just like kind of the broader like picture of. Of Wild Turkey history. So, you know, Brent and, and his. And some of his, you know, friends really like identified the need to have, you know, someone like an organization be kind of like that central, like, hey, we need to protect this. This is here's. And here's how we do it. So that's where. That's what. That was the driver behind that. It was very much a brainchild of, of, you know, Brett Rogers and, and then his conversations with Nathaniel. And I was just fortunate to. To. To be kind of brought into that as well, for sure.
- [08:21]
A
You know, one of the questions, you know, sat down and did a short interview with you guys at nwtf and one of the questions that you guys asked me was like, why do you think people are gravitating towards the like the nostalgic, like the like the old school stuff? So have you like, I mean, you asked that question to everybody you interviewed, right? Have. Have you been able to.
- [08:41]
B
Yeah, Nathaniel did. Yep.
- [08:42]
A
Have you been able to kind of identify like what that's all about, like why people are going back to the old school camo, like Wanda, like that, like are so hungry for that style of stuff. Did you figure that out yet?
- [08:55]
B
Yeah, you know, no, I, I think that. I think that's a lot of things. And, and your answer actually made it into the final video. And I think, you know, we keep releasing. Nathaniel has done such a good releasing little snippets of that, you know, kind of through throughout, you know, once we've, you know, have been putting content on. On the Instagram and Facebook and whatnot. But you know, I think you had talked about in 2026 and you know, really the last couple of years is, is consumers right? And, and not just like turkey hunting content, but just consumers marketing. Everything that, that that we get is just so much of it is just nonsense. Right. It's not real so much stuff, especially on social media just. It's just not real. And, and I don't mean just like AI. I mean it's just like everything's just so much stuff is staged and like. And we know that. Right? And, and I'm 43, I'm a millennial man. I, I was very fortunate to grow up like with an analog childhood and then in my later teen years start to get some of that kind of like digital feel. But a lot of these kids nowadays that have had a completely like digital life, I think they have a really good like keen eye to like sniff out when someone's BSing them. Yeah. You know, and, and they, and they want, they, they crave that authentic nature. I think that's where a lot of these like the old school way of doing things or the old school content or the personalities. I mean like Cuz Strickland at this point is probably more popular than he and than he ever has been. And I don't know how old cuz is. I'm not going to put an age. I want to make him older, younger than he is. But he's been at long time, man. Yeah, I mean and, but he is. His star is brighter now in 2026 than it was in 1986 when they were filming the Truth, you know, And I think it's because a lot people nowadays, we just see it, we just gravitate towards that because there was nothing fancy about it. It was just straight to the point. It was turkey hunting, it was ugly at times, it was a little gritty. And I think that people just want that, you know, in some aspects of their lives. So that's just my opinion. But yeah, I think we definitely hear that common theme, you know.
- [11:00]
A
Yeah, we just, you know, I think it, people can relate to the rawness of it more than they can like a highly curated, you know, 32nd like buzz reel of a hunt or what, you know, whatever it might be. So it's pretty cool to see the stuff that you guys are putting out on your page. Just like some of that old like clearly digitized VHS stuff. One question I had when you said you have thousands of tapes and, and all these pieces of content, how do you, how have you guys gone about amassing this? Like, is it like Facebook Marketplace? Is it just, you know, I, like, I know you said some was from like NWTF and you know, these organizations that have held onto some of the stuff. But like what's some of, what are some of the ways that you've gathered all this up in one location?
- [11:45]
B
Yeah, I wish, I wish Nathaniel was here to answer that because this is definitely like his, his brainchild on the, on the film digitizing. And so one thing that, that's worth mentioning before I dive into this is that like VHS tapes and, and Betamax tapes. Like the shelf life of those is like 40 years. 40 to 50. And like we're there, man. Yeah, like we are knocking on that door. You know, Nathaniel has some of these films that are, you know, 8 millimeter and 16 millimeter films that, you know, are almost in better condition than some of these old school vhs. So we, we did, we got, we got a huge collection from NWTF and we've been working through digitizing those now. We've got a lot of people that are, are sending us films that they've, that they've had and, and don't stop that. I mean, yeah, we want to put it. We want to preserve it. All right. Not just the, the big names, the ultimate springs and the true of the world. Right. Or the, the day. But it's, it's really neat the stuff that's out there. I mean we've, we've have a film in our possession that a gentleman has let us kind of. Kind of borrow at this point. We're still trying to work. We can get this out. But it was a silent black and white film from like 1919 or 1920.
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A
Holy cow.
- [12:59]
B
Turgon.
- [13:00]
A
Yeah, that's.
- [13:01]
B
It's freaking cool, man. It is wild. And it's like, it's, it's, you know, it's got the, like the, the. The. I don't know what the term form is, but like the, the typed out like, you know, words that describing, like you think of the Charlie Chaplin movies. I'm sure people have seen those. But like you. It's like, you know, here's, you know, the hunter is here and here's a chair that President says it's just so cool, man. It's. And just to, you know, once you start looking for things and asking for things, I think, you know, more and more opportunities have opened up, you know, for our organization and really, you know, turkey hunters, more broadly speaking. But you know, that's, that's how it's. You know, and Nathaniel for years and Brent for years. Brent's collection is. I mean, it's so. It's unbelievable. Yeah, the stuff that, that he has and Nathaniel too, that's kind of, you know, the heart. He has a heart for that, you know, for, for the digital, the visual media, you know, and get. And getting his hands on that. So we've gotten some stuff from I think Missouri Department of Conservation. We've, We've digitized some of their stuff. Arkansas, Virginia, Vermont. You know, I had a conversation with a biologist, a state biologist at convention in February and mentioned that he's like, man, you know, 20 years ago, someone dropped off a case of film reels. He's like, I don't know what to do with these. And he's like, they're all turkey films. My head exploded. I'm like, are you serious? And he's like, yeah, I've just kept him under tote under my desk. I'm like, all right, let's go, man. I'll come pick him up. Yeah, but like, the point is, like, that's the stuff that gets missed. Yeah, right. Is that box under a drawer or under a desk in a state agency? That guy retires, next guy comes in is like, what the hell is this? This? And just literally just throws it away. I mean, we, we've heard the horror stories of like some of the original primo content. Yeah, Gone. Yeah, just vanished. And that's almost like legendary at this point. Same thing with, with some of the early nwtf, like research days. That, that, that content is just gone, you know?
- [15:07]
A
Yeah. You know, leading up to hopping on with you today, I was thinking about just like how myself coming up in like the filming world and like how my first professional video camera was a Hi8 tape, you know, small tape, 60 minute high definition tapes. And I like, I've got a whole stack of them, like in a tote that I can't even play anymore because I have since sold that camera. Can't even capture them at the moment. But I was thinking about it and I remember this one time, it was one of the big hunting shows and I can't remember which one, but they were doing a little. It might have been the Drury brothers, but they were doing a little behind the scenes of how they store all their footage. And whoever it was had created a climate controlled like, vault room and it had all of the tapes and stuff lined up. So that way it like preserved like the, the tape for as long as possible. But thinking about that today, I was like, I wonder if that even exists anymore. Like, does that route. Is that room still there? Like, or like, why would you continue to, you know, keep it climate controlled when everything went to digital? Like basically right after I saw that.
- [16:12]
B
Yeah. So, yeah, man, I, I was actually just at Drury Outdoors just beginning of April. I was on the. Matt and Tim had me on the Drury Outdoors podcast and they've have, they have a lot of stuff that's still in that Temperature controlled, you know, little room. And Nathaniel has built one of those in, in his slate and glass office in Missouri. I mean, it's just so cool, man. You know, seeing that and it, it really is when, when you look at like preserving, you know, that kind of content, it's overwhelming, man, when, when you look at it and, and, you know, just, just like everything else in life, you know, every. Saving a tape, there's a, there's a, there's a hard dollar cost to that. Right. Preserving a magazine article, which is. That's kind of like my favorite thing is the magazine articles, I love them, man. I don't know, I just, I'm just, I just gravitate towards that. And seeing some of those, you're holding some of those magazines from like the 1890s, it's just. It's just so neat, man. Yeah, and reading some of the, reading some of the articles, you know, it's just, it's just really cool. We've got some of those, those preserved and, and digitized, you know, on the, on the archive right now. So it's just really. Man, it's just, it's.
- [17:22]
A
There's so much to do, you know, in this. I don't know if you can see this stack right behind me. I've been starting, you know, as. Starting to do this for Field and Stream. I've kind of started to collect some old Field and Stream magazines. And I've got a stack of 19, 37, 38 and 39 field and streams behind me. But one of them has a turkey, hun it. So I'm sure you guys have collected all these, but I'll, I'll look through them and I'll. I'll send a picture to you after we're done here. And if you don't have that one, I'll just mail it to you because, like.
- [17:48]
B
Oh man, that, that. Yeah, that'd be awesome. I'd love to see it. And, well, you know, Brent. Brent definitely handles the kind of the curation, you know, portion of this. And he's so good and, and just the way that he catalogs information and he'll send me pictures of like some magazine articles. And I've got the kind of this really cool system. I put it into AI and AI analyzes the words that are on there. And it's funny, there are definitely some editorial flags that come up with the language in some of these articles. So it's funny, I've had to really read over some of these and change some words.
- [18:25]
A
Yeah, for sure.
- [18:26]
B
It's pretty Wild
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A
through the Roost podcast, which is another one that I co host with Ben o'. Brien. You know, we just have talked to so many of these people who are like, that are still alive that are doing like, all of that had started kind of like the turkey hunting culture or at least the, the like on screen version of turkey hunting culture. And Ben actually just interviewed and I'm sure you've talked to Tom Kelly, but his daughter is now running all of the book side of it. So he just did a podcast with Laura, which was super awesome. But again, like, like all this stuff is like, I'm just trying to think of like, who else can we connect you with? Who else can we like, have part of this, you know, to continue to feed like this? So, like, you have like the largest style and I know you guys are on top of all that, but it's, it's fun to, you know, dream and try to figure out if I can help it.
- [19:19]
B
Yeah, man, that's. That's so cool that you say that. You know, there's, it's a, you know, the whole purpose of this is. And I, and I love these, these men to death, but like Harold Knight and Will Primos and Cus Strickland and Preston Pittman, we got a lot of their stuff. You know, we know so much about them. Right. There's been so much content created around them and because of them. And it's just, you know, we're very lucky that we have all of that and when we still have all the men. Right. All those guys I mentioned are still with us, you know, and so those stories just keep coming. But there's so many interesting, fascinating people that are, they're important to the, to the overall culture.
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A
Yeah.
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B
That we just did. Not a lot of people know about.
- [20:02]
A
Right.
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B
And like, there's. There's a guy that I've been learning about from Brent and actually his, his grandson, Jack Dudley, and how instrumental this guy was. You know, Jack Dudley was. I mean, he was like. And I hate to use this term, but it's the only, like, term that I can think of. He was like the first like Wild Turkey influencer back in like the 50s and 60s. Like, like call makers and like the, the MC vest. Have you ever seen that? Like the very first. No, the very first Wild Turkey Vest production vest ever made.
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A
Okay.
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B
Like, they sought out like on the tag it says endorsed by Jack Dudley. Like, this guy was. He was like the man, you know, and so it was just an amazing story. An amazing man. And Family and history and not a lot of people know about it. Right. And. And, you know, so that's our. Our goal. Like, all of this is great, man. All, you know, the. The stuff that we do and preserving the content and the history, but none of that matters if we don't do a good job of bringing that history to life. And bringing stories like Jack Dudley's to life is something that we're really like, like, focused on. Like, how do we get there? Like, we're so close. Like, how do we get there?
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A
Yeah.
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B
You know. Yeah. And that's where the support, you know, from. From guys like you and. And listeners and, you know, across the country. That's. That's where that comes from. So.
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A
Yeah. Well, it's cool that, you know, that you guys are actually doing the deep dive to everybody who played a part in, like, turkey conservation and, you know, like, actually, like, changing and shifting and kind of igniting that turkey hunting culture. And obviously, right now I'm thinking a lot about turkey hunting because it's May 5th, and I know it's Cinco de Mayo and most people are, you know, grabbing a Mexican lager or, you know, a margarita, but I am like, yeah, it's May 5th. I should be in the woods. Like that. It was.
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B
Yeah.
- [21:39]
A
Calm, cool morning. They're gonna be gobbling their heads off. So. But no, this is. It's. I'm excited to like, follow along more as you guys, like, dive deeper into this and, like, you know, release these snippets of stuff and the projects and the films and whatever. Like, it's gonna be fun to watch where this thing. Whole. Whole thing goes over the next bit, man.
- [22:02]
B
I. I'm excited for it, too. And I. I listened to, you know, like, Brent talk about some of the kind stories that are just so fascinating and important that, again, like, only, like, deep history nerds have heard about, you know, And I mean, that, like, was from a place of love, right? Because I'm one of those people. But there's just, like, these stories that I like. I'm like, man, I want to. I want to send Brent down there. Like, selfishly, like, I want to hear this story played out because it is fascinating and. And I just. Just as, like, as a consumer of, like, that type of content, I'm really excited to see what, you know, what we come up with. And, you know, I think Nathaniel kind of set the. Set the tone for that with, like, the colonel and the fox and. And the disease and some of the other work that he's done. Y. Just man, I have all the faith in the world in him, you know, to, to, to bring those stories and that history to life. So it is, it is going to be really neat to, to watch.
- [23:00]
A
Yeah. He is a hell of a storyteller. I've admired him. I met him, I mean, like probably about it roughly a decade ago. Okay, buddy. Chris Ellis introduced me to Nathaniel way back when.
- [23:11]
B
I love Chris. What a guy.
- [23:12]
A
Yeah. Chris is the man. He's been long term mentor for me in this whole space. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [23:17]
B
He's so good.
- [23:18]
A
Yeah. So, so what? I guess obviously you guys probably have a million ideas like as far as where you want to take this whole organization, but for now, like what's kind of like the, what's the track that you're on, like going forward? What are some of the things you're trying to accomplish over the next, the next, you know, call it couple years?
- [23:37]
B
Yeah, man, that's a great, a great, a great question. And I'm, I'm going to try to answer this and not sound like, just be so cliche about this, this answer, but you know, it's, it's just any other startup business in the world, right? You know, we've, we've had our growing pains. We're, we're trying to figure things out, figure the systems out. Is, is some of these things that we hit. It's the first time that any of us have ever dealt with it, you know, from like a business perspective. You know, right now like we're, we've got a list of, you know, probably a dozen projects that we, we want to fund and we're going to start releasing those and start talking about them. And I mean really like the first thing is like, you know, we just have to have the, the funds to do it, you know, and we are a non profit. Like that's the whole point of this. Right? And so we're really focused on, on, on you know, like being transparent. Like, hey, here, here are the stories and the people and the topics and the comp, you know, the, the conversations and here's the, you know, here, here's how much it's going to cost to do that. You know, help us out. Right? Like, and, and, and just, and you know, it's, it's. People have been so supportive. Right. You know, right off the rip with this man. And, and that's why, you know, I said I don't want to be cliche. We just like, we just need more help, you know, like that, that help and that need for Funding never goes away. Like, every conservation organization on the face of the planet needs that funding. Every business needs that funding. And, and so we're just trying to get, you know, really those funding models in place. Fundraising, the archives. You can become a member, sign up. It's like it's a hundred dollars a year for access to the STREAM platform and the archives. That's like really our main focus right now, man. We do have, like I said, we have about 12 projects that we've really, we've kind of identified and a lot of those projects are top the list because, like, we still have some of those people here, but they're really old. You know, like, we're not, we're. The clock is literally ticking with, with some of these f. And so, you know, we really, we really want to, you know, get some traction on that.
- [25:40]
A
So the, when you say, when you say projects, are you like, kind of thinking like documentary style, like, storytelling of these individuals or.
- [25:48]
B
Yeah, yeah, some. Yeah, some of that. Yeah, we've got, we've got. There's some, some stories that we want to tell that, you know, will be like that kind of a Colonel Fox style storytelling. There's some preservation work that we really want to get, get done with. You know, with the, like, with the digitizing the tapes. I mean, there's, like I said, there's a, there's a cost associated with every one of those. You know, we want to get a machine that automatically turns and scans the magazines. Yeah, right. To digitize these, these things, you know, you know, that's, that's one of them. So it's just kind of a combination of, of needs that, you know, like needs based fundraising off of. I, I know I want to avoid the word initiative. That's why I keep saying project, because that's what they are, right? They're projects or storytelling projects. They're preservation projects. So. Yeah, and like, we want to get, we want to get a new system for the archives. It's way more interactive and, and connects to these, all these other different archives and kind of pull in and be like a central hub, you know, that we envision. So, yeah, there's all these neat things that we want to make happen and they'll. And they'll come together. There's one thing that I know, turkey hunters are passionate about this. And I think, I think, you know, the better, the more we, we talk about and the better we get at talking about what we're doing and the needs that we have and how we're going to do it. I think. I think people really get. Get behind it.
- [27:05]
A
So, yeah, I was just about to say, if there's one group of people like, that will get behind a project like this, it's turkey hunters. Like, and I'm not talking about, you know, like, the. Just the average, like, guy that goes out maybe one weekend, has a big chunk of place where he can hunt and go kill a bird. I'm talking about the people who, like, like, are willing to, like, lose their job, you know, or skip work or, you know, test relationships. Pretty tough. When it comes to spring turkey season, there's. There's definitely, you know, like, a disease behind it or an addiction where people, like, really go hard, and those people are willing to, you know, put some money up to do, you know, and fund things and. And do this kind of stuff.
- [27:46]
B
They are, man.
- [27:48]
A
Yeah.
- [27:49]
B
And it's. It's. It's so. It's so great that, you know, to be a part of a community like that. And, you know, I. Passion comes out in different ways, you know, and it just when. When you hear people and. And you. And you talk about those things that they're, you know, they're really, really passionate about, and you hear. You hear the excitement come out in their voice, like. Yeah, I. I love that.
- [28:09]
A
Yeah.
- [28:09]
B
You know?
- [28:09]
A
Absolutely.
- [28:10]
B
Absolutely love it.
- [28:11]
A
So what's one of the, like, you were talking about the one gentleman who, like, nobody's ever heard about, but what are some of the other things that you've, like, like, kind of just discovered through this whole project that you've been like, oh, man, that's a completely. Like, I had no idea about any of that. Are there any that, like, float to the top of things that you've discovered, like, while you've been doing this?
- [28:31]
B
Yeah, so there's two that. That. That I am just instant, like, endlessly fascinated with, you know, One is, like, the magazine articles. I think the oldest one I've read is for. I want to say it's like, 1857, and aside from some of the funky words, and it's just like you and I talking about a turkey hunt, you know, and it's like. It's just like this. Like, this. This guy blew a chance, you know, and he's, like, freaking out on his friend, you know, and it's just like. It's just like turkey camp, but almost 200 years ago, like 150 years ago. And it's just wild, man. And I just. I love that, that. That, you know, turkey hunting guys, man, we've been the same for A long time. Like, there was, like, you talk about, like, losing jobs. One guy, like, in one article is. And again, this is like, 1860s. This guy's like, my tractor needs repaired, but I saw some gobblers crossing a cornfield. You know, this guy's like, I just shucked off all the responsibility for the day to go kill this turkey. I'm like, dude, these guys are the same as us. Like, the only difference is they couldn't post about it on Instagram. They had to write about it, you know, But I just. I love that. That's. That's something that, you know, that. That culture. We did it. Honestly, man. And it's been. It's been there for a long time, longer than I think many of us really know. And then the other one is, I. I forget the number. I wish I could remember, but Brent told me that there's. There's over 2, 000, like. Like, public mentions of wild turkeys, like, across the country, like, you know, like, in state houses and, you know, whatever it may be statues. And just how woven into, like, American culture and fabric at a broader level, not just, like, chase them and shoot them, but, like, you know, how. Like, just how woven into the fabric of America that these birds are. I don't think people realize, like, yeah. How cool that is and just, you know, how. How layered it is and. And. And I think it's a part of that is the people that, you know, where we've. There's been some friction in the community. I think, you know, there' understand that, and they see it and. And they feel it in their soul. And there's people that just haven't seen it yet. Right. I think that's where a lot of that. That friction comes. So I just love it, man. I. I love. I love how interwoven it is into the fabric of America. So I'm trying to.
- [30:51]
A
I'm thinking back, like, you want to, like, try to envision what it would have been like 200 years ago, like, or close to, like, being out on a turkey hunt. And. And all I wonder is, like, you know, you hear reports or, like, old journal entries of, like, first settlers, right, in the US and they talk about how, like, Turkey's basically, you know, more or less filled the trees, like, and, you know, like, it would be, like, basically, like, endless thunder of gobbles, like, in the spring mornings, right? And then we, you know, hunted them all dang near to extinction. And so when you think about 150 years ago, it's like, what did that like, what did those mornings sound like, you know, and is it the same? And then also like, I've been to a few spots, turkey hunting, where you have like a 200 year old oak tree, right, or a 300 year old oak tree, and you're like, yeah, that, you know, it's possible that a guy was turkey hunting in this spot 200 years ago and that oak tree saw this whole thing go down. Just like it's watching me do it right now. So like I, I don't know, like the spring, springtime in, in woods like that. Like, it's a special place. I find myself envisioning everything that's happened over like, you know, the history of the country, like right in that same spot or the history, you know, the life of that tree or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what, I don't know. I don't know if I'm the only one that does that, but I tend to like, try to think about everything that's happened in that spot. I'm sitting, it's like, yeah, that's so,
- [32:20]
B
that's so cool, man. I, I, you know, I, I'll share a story with you a couple years ago and I'm, I'll say it. I was Lamb Tuna Lakes is where I was hunting. And I'm gonna say that because I, you know, it's, it's a special place in this country, right? Like the history of that, of lamb to the lakes. It's very interesting place and people should just go to vacation there, if anything. It is, it is a really beautiful part of the country. But there's. Fort Donaldson is kind of, of like right along, like the outer edge of land between the lakes. And there's some parts of, of Fort Donaldson and the larger Civil War presence in that area that's kind of intermixed in between, you know, lamb tonal lakes. And I was, I was chasing a gobbler and I was moving and I was, it was one of those moments where I just had to like kind of pump the brakes and I just had to like, kind of like wait, you know, I had to like, I, I had to just like, what am I doing? You know, just kind of slowing down and I'm standing there on this beautiful bottom and, and there's like a Civil war ceme kind of close to me and, and I'm looking around and if you've ever seen them, it's the old like, like fox that, that the soldiers would build. And so I'm looking, I'm like, oh, damn. Yeah, these things are everywhere, like. And I mean, it was clear what they were that. And. And they were just mounted up and they were just dug out and. And because I. I had seen them at Fort Donaldson, you know, the ones that are left, and it's the same thing. And it was just. It was a fortified position, you know, during the Civil War. And here I am standing on top of the turkey hunting, you know, and. Talk about one of those moments, man, that just like, takes your breath away. I mean, that was pretty. That for me, that was very powerful, you know, knowing, like, what, what you. What had happened literally right there that I was standing in. And, you know, I'm sure those guys heard some goblin, you know, birds shot,
- [34:10]
A
gobbling to the round.
- [34:10]
B
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly, man. And I'm sure they dumped a few of them if they had an opportunity, you know, feed the. Feed the. Yeah, exactly. Feed the troops. But yeah, it was just one of those moments, man, that was like. Just really, like personally was very powerful for me. And. And I. I'll never forget it. I'll never forget like, that feeling when I realized what I was standing amongst, you know, and. And what, you know, what had happened here. And it's humbling. Humbling.
- [34:39]
A
You know, I think that's one of the thing that people who don't spend a lot of time in the woods miss out on. Right? You don't. You don't end up. Up. It doesn't take you to these locations that normally, you know, like a gobbler drug you through this spot, you know, or. Or, you know, whatever you're chasing takes you to a certain location. You get to have these experiences that you otherwise wouldn't. And so one, it's cool that that happens in whatever pursuit that you're chasing when it comes to hunting and fishing. And two, the other thing is slowing down enough to actually realize those things is what makes it powerful. Yeah, it's just a. I don't know. It's one of the things that I love most about all this stuff is like, all of a sudden you end up in this little tiny slice of thing that you're experiencing in that one moment, and it's. That one moment is yours forever. And like, the amount of times that I've had to stop myself and being like, yeah, I mean, like, obviously the goal here is to notch a tag or have a successful hunt or whatever, but the number of times that I of stopped myself and been like, no, you need to like, really soak this in. Like, sure, take A picture or two or whatever. But, like, try to remember this moment as best you can and burn it into your brain and so that when we're talking to, you know, you're talking to people like us talking, or you're having a conversation around a campfire, or you're in another turkey or hunting camp, or you're, you know, making one of your in laws bored to death talking about hunting, whatever it is you get to share. Like, you. You get to try to put this stuff into work. Yes. That to me is like the. The cool part of it. That's the magic sauce right there.
- [36:09]
B
Oh, man. For. For sure. Yeah, absolutely. And I think. I think you said, you know, we both said it. Like, you. You have to allow yourself to. To. To live in those moments and to recognize when you're in those moments and. And to really appreciate them and soak them in. And I think that, you know, quite honestly, man, 20 years ago, when I was, you know, in my. In my early and mid 20s, I. I probably wouldn't like, you know, they're in LBL. I probably wouldn't even recognize what I was standing on, you know, and I would have just stepped right off of it and. And kept going, you know, And I think that's one thing that I've really enjoyed kind of going through that process to where, you know, man, just gratitude takes over even when things are just like, at their worst, man, you're getting your face kicked in. In turkey woods, and it's just like, dude, yeah, freaking calm down, man. Just enjoy yourself. You're having fun. You're in, like, a beautiful part of the country. You know, if I'm by myself, you know, that solitude is. Is refreshing and re. Energizing. If I'm with, you know, friends or new people I've just met, that's refreshing and re. Energizing. Yeah, and just freaking enjoy it, man. And. And I think that the people would just enjoy life and enjoy turkey hunting if they. If. If we just recenter that, you know, and really think about, you know, that's what's important at the end of the day, man. And I love killing turkeys as much as the next guy. And I'll be honest, I'm ready to pull the trigger on one. Sam. It's May 5th, and I haven't done it yet. I'm all freaking out about that. That. But, you know, I've still tried to keep myself, you know, grounded and. And, you know, gratitude and all that centered, man, so I can. I can really just enjoy it, man. Because you don't get too many of them. Yeah.
- [37:42]
A
Yeah. We sit here and talk about this, about, you know, enjoying these little moments, and that's like. That's the thing that we're. That's the part of the journey that we're on right now. Right. It's like, when you get it. If you get into hunting when you're young, you kind of go through a phase where, like, first you're just learning everything, right? And then you get to a part where you're actually kind of good at it, and. And then the goal is, like, you're just, you know, you're kind of thirsty for, like, okay, I want to go pull the trigger again. I want to go do it again. And I want to shoot a limited ducks. I want to shoot turkey. I want to shoot another turkey. I want to shoot it, you know, and then it's just, you know, you don't understand, like, when you're in your. You know, for me, it was like, late teens, early 20s. I don't. Couldn't really understand, you know, like, where my dad would be like, you know, I'm gonna go sit the same stand or whatever, you know, and I'm just, you know, or I'm gonna take a nap. I'm gonna, you know, I'm just gonna, like, chill here. And I just like, where's the drive into the fire? And now I'm like, oh, I completely get it. Like, the. You know, like, as you've done it enough, like, or over time, you've done it a bunch, you start to be like, I'm gonna remember this more than I would, like, if I push and keep going and, like, make myself miserable chasing this end goal when, like, all the good stuff is right in the middle. So,
- [38:55]
B
yeah, dad, like, those comfortable stands with good views of the sunset or sunrise. Right. That's where I'm checking in 100.
- [39:01]
A
So, yeah.
- [39:02]
B
Yeah, man, that's awesome.
- [39:04]
A
So in. In kind of like, going through the. The history in the archives, obviously, right now, or they'll call it the last five years, there's been a way bigger uptick, you know, as far as, like, our generation. Right. A way bigger uptick in the talk about turkey conservation. So, yeah, I'm interested if you've seen, like, because you've kind of read through, so articles, you know, 1860s and beyond and until now. Right. I'm curious to see what it looks like from, like, you're almost, like, fly on the wall, getting to see, like, the history of turkey hunting, but then those populations going from like pretty high probably when those guys were hunting, you know, start of the country, you know, like way back when to like the point where there was no turkey seasons like in a lot of places and now and then way back up, you know, to where like NWTF had always said there was like went from however Many thousand to 7 million wild turkeys and then where we are now, like what has that looked like from a historical, your historical perspective or have you been able to like see that pattern like through the, the different articles and how people wrote about turkey?
- [40:14]
B
Yeah, man. You know I, I have seen, I've seen a lot of the, the early restoration work through some of the videos that we have and the early trap and transfer work and the narration on some of those is, is really, it's really powerful when, when you, when you hear it. And I, I think that, that, that, that, that bottoming out, right, that population decline to where turkeys were extirpated from a lot of states. Ohio, where I'm from being, being one of those states gone like zero, zero freaking turkeys in the state of Ohio. Like it's mind boggling. I think that that period and then, and then the restoration phase where it was just grit and determination, man, is the only reason that we have, we have wild turkeys to hunt in 2026 and beyond. I think that's what's created our, our culture and has created an appreciation for the wild turkey because it's generational. Right. Like great grandparents at this point taught, you know, their kids and so on and so forth. And I think that that's where, that's why we have, that's why we're here. Right, right. Because that culture is so rich and, and it was almost gone and, and honestly if it wasn't for just a handful of people that were like, I don't know man, I like hunting these things. I want to make sure they're here. We just, you and I wouldn't be, we wouldn't be talking about this. You know, it'd be like a freaking passenger pigeon or something like that. You know, we're like, well there used to be this bird, you know, and, and that's just sad, man, when you think of it. It was how close it was. But, but yeah, I, I would really like. And some of those films are on the archives. You just go to mon.archives.com, click on Explore the archives and you can click on, I think, I think it says film collection. You can click on those. And some of those early restoration work videos are in there. I mean, these are like some of the first time on tape or on video that people were stuffing turkeys into boxes and letting them go and talking about, you know, releasing the first. There's 15 turkeys in Arkansas or whatever. You know, with. With a population that's just maybe estimated a couple thousand. Like, it's just. It's crazy when you think about it, man. Yeah, it's just so wild.
- [42:27]
A
Really interesting thing to me was how the war played had a big impact on turkey relocation because of the invention of the rockets. So then we had rocket propelled nets. Like, I mean, what.
- [42:37]
B
That's so cool.
- [42:38]
A
The thing that like, you take something that causes lots of destruction and turn it into something that causes lots of rebirth. Earth, you know, for a species on the landscape, it's so neat, man. Cool. So for people listening. Yeah, you don't know what we're talking about. Basically the way they did turkey relocation was you'd put out a bunch of feed, get turkeys. If you had an area that had a good turkey population, you'd get a bunch that were feeding in this pile of corn or whatever they would put out to feed them. And then on the edge of that, they created, they would have small rockets that would launch and net. Net over top of the turkeys. And then you could go up and you could box them and relocate them and then let them go in a different location. And then that, you know, group of birds would repopulate that little area and then you do it over again. And so, I mean, it's like you can't, you know, trap all of them in one spot, but you just like start to build these pockets of birds that then you can pull from. So that, I mean that, yeah, that to me, like whoever figured that out, that the wild turkey, you can't, you can't raise them and let them go. That doesn't work like domestic or like, not domesticated birds. But even if you take eggs and hatch them, like farm raised turkeys, wild turkeys don't survive. And so it has to be, you know, relocated wild turkeys, but pretty, you know, like, that stuff to me, like, is a very cool part of this whole history.
- [43:57]
B
It is, it is so neat. And there's just, you know, it's funny when you look back at it now with perspective, you see those, those people, like Duff Holbrook, who was the guy that figured out that you could take rocket, used to trap ducks, net ducks and use them on wild turkeys. Like, and then, and then Wayne Bailey, you know, back in the, you know the, the 40s typing out, you know, all these research papers, you know, about, about the process of, of turkey relocation. I mean without those guys, I just, I can't like, you can't understate or overstate like how important those moments were. And, and James Earl Kenmer, I had a conversation with, with Dr. Chamberlain just recently and he said like unequivocally, if it wasn't for James Earl Kenmer and his work, we would not be hunting turkeys the way that we are right now. That's a strong statement and that's a true statement. You know what I mean? Just those, those guys are so influential and so impactful and important and you know, preserving those stories. We're losing them, we're losing them every day. You know, those, that first wave of people and preserving those stories in those moments, man, that's just, that's so I it. You know, the work that we do and want to do won't necessarily put more turkeys on the landscape. The work that, you know, TFT and NWTF and those conservation state agencies that literally puts more turkeys on the landscape. But you know, we really think that that that concert or you know, the preservation of the history and the heritage that you know, we want to build that, that love and that respect and that reverence for people going forward. We believe that work is pretty important.
- [45:28]
A
Bill, what is.
- [45:31]
B
That was a good quote, Sam. That better be on social media. That came out like way.
- [45:36]
A
That'll be a clip from this whole thing. We'll get that out there.
- [45:40]
B
Yeah, that's it. Man, that was good.
- [45:42]
A
What, like how can people get involved in this? Obviously you know, you're just looking for funding. What's the easiest way for people to get in there and get involved?
- [45:51]
B
Yeah, if, if you want you can, you can Visit Wild Turkey Archives.com you can click on, you know like become an insider that you know, that's, that's one way you get access to the streaming platform. The online archives is free. You know, you can get on there and peruse. I mean there's thousands of objects, our items, archive items on there right now. And you know we are 501c3 non profit. So you can get on awthf.org we have a donate button link on there. You can find us, we have like a PayPal non profit segment. You can, you can find us on there. And, and it's just, it's so neat man. Seeing, seeing people. Yeah, you give us their hard earned dollars man, to help support something they love. Every time One of those comes in. It just like, it just makes me smile, you know, And I'm so grateful for. For turkey hunters and their love and passion. So. Yeah, and, and you tell us, tell us about these stories, Tell us about these people. I mean, there's not a week that goes by that someone doesn't message me like, hey, man, man, dude, there's this guy, Sam Soho. You should check him out. He's, you know, an old turkey hunter from North Carolina or whatever it is, you know, and I just love hearing those stories. And, and that's one of those that, you know, we want to create a database of. Of those folks and, and really just kind of have people all over the country, you know, telling stories. And, and that was the other thing
- [47:09]
A
I wanted to ask was like, if somebody listening has like a stack of old turkey film or like, you know, they stumble across something in their, you know, grandparents attic or whatever, you know, like, how do. Is that something they can like, reach out and like, you know, send you guys.
- [47:23]
B
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And we've, we've been taking, you know, donations of items like that already. So you can find us on any of the social medias at Wild Turkey Archives or just our general email is info@awthf.org so we got a lot of contacts and there's a contact button on
- [47:44]
A
the website as well.
- [47:45]
B
So. So. Or just any of us, me, Nathaniel or Brent, even just a. A direct message would.
- [47:51]
A
Also, is there any, like, future plans for like, a Wild Turkey archives museum? Like a actual hard location? Yeah, okay.
- [47:59]
B
Oh, absolutely, man. I'd be. Yeah, I be. I'd be lying if we didn't talk about that pretty regularly. Yeah, we. We would. We would love. We would love to see that happen. It's one of those that. Yeah, you know, the bank account keeps us grounded in our. In our daydreaming, you know, But I think that. I think that this history, I think this, this culture and this heritage, I think that it's worth a physical location. I think it's. I think that that, that matters. I think there's enough that you could really make something engaging and interactive for all turkey hunters and really all people that have a passion for just America. Right. Like I said earlier in the show, like, this is. This is America's bird, man. I don't care that the eagle is on our money or on the seal, right? This is America's freaking turkey, dude. And I just. I think it needs a place that people can see it, they can touch it, they can hear it, they can feel it and, and just really connect with it. I think that that is big picture goal, without a doubt.
- [48:57]
A
Oh, man, that's. That's honestly perfect right there. Like, I just, I wanna, I wanna end it right there just with, with that. And so I can't thank you enough for coming on and just talking about what, like, what you guys are up to. Like, kudos to you guys for taking this on on because somebody had to do it. And it's very cool. Like, it's a very cool group of guys of you guys that are doing this and I'm. I'm proud to be part of the community that's like, you know, helped step up and like find all this stuff and like, help, you know.
- [49:26]
B
Yeah, man, thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. Thanks for just your support and your help and, and having me on. And man, we're just grateful for people like you and for. And for this community. We. It's going to take a of lot.
- [49:38]
A
Lot.
- [49:39]
B
It's going to take a lot to. To get this up and running. And you know, we just talked about Turkey hunters aren't afraid of a challenge.
- [49:45]
A
Right. Well, give everybody the website one more time. We'll put it in the show notes and all that obviously. But yeah, just where can people find you?
- [49:53]
B
Yeah, It's Wild Turkey Archives.com and then you can find us on Instagram, Facebook and Tik Tok Wild Turkey Archives.
- [50:00]
A
Yes. Paul, thanks again. Good luck the rest of spring and we'll certainly be be texting back and forth turkey photos here before too long.
- [50:08]
B
Yeah, sounds good, man. I appreciate you, Sam.
- [50:11]
A
All right, thanks, Paul.