← Legends of the Wild, A Field And Stream Production | Hunting, Fishing and the Outdoors
Legends of the Wild, A Field And Stream Production | Hunting, Fishing and the Outdoors
Episode 3 - Hunting, Home, and the Changing West: Stories from Bozeman and Beyond
01:17:34
Legends of the Wild kicks off again this week with Sam Soholt being joined by legendary outdoor TV producer Jason Matzinger. The guys sit down for a wide-ranging conversation about how hunting, outdoor media, and conservation are changing in the modern age. What starts as reminiscing about the nostalgic vibe of classic hunting camps, like the Field & Stream Lodge, evolves into how these places shape the stories hunters carry for life.
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- [00:00]
Christian McCaffrey
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- [00:31]
State Farm Representative
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- [00:58]
Jason Matzinger
This is Legends of the Wild presented by Field and Stream. Let's get into it. We are recording. Try not to breathe too hard. You hear that buzzing in the background?
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Unnamed Guest 1
Yeah.
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Jason Matzinger
Wonder if that's the.
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Unnamed Guest 1
That's a little better there. Now I feel like all I can really hear is just that fridge running or something.
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Jason Matzinger
Okay.
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Unnamed Guest 1
Yeah, that's pretty good. Yeah, I don't hear the buzz. Like it was.
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Jason Matzinger
Okay, perfect. I think that's loud enough too. Like, the levels are good. I don't know. Somebody should have given me a tutorial on this thing.
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Unnamed Guest 1
Is it bouncing like three quarters of the way up the bar? What I'm talking. That's kind of what I shoot for.
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Jason Matzinger
Yeah. And like, you know, they try to tell you, like, okay, we'll shoot for negative 12ish for like at the top end.
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Unnamed Guest 1
Yeah, Max.
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Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
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Jason Matzinger
Yeah, that'll work.
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Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
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Jason Matzinger
I've got a. I've got Cody, podcast engineer. He'll take care of it.
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Unnamed Guest 1
I've always been confused on why negative 12 is the positive value.
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Jason Matzinger
Doesn't make any sense. It's like that.
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Unnamed Guest 1
Yeah, that was one of those early editing days when I was reading the breakdown of criteria for the episode. Yeah, that took me a while to.
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Jason Matzinger
Wrap my brain around, which I don't even know if this will make podcasts, but which doesn't make sense because when you're in your editing software and you go to like add, like add volume. Like, let's say at a contract, it's. You increase the decibel level. It's like plus six.
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Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
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Jason Matzinger
It's like, why? What?
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Unnamed Guest 1
Yeah, but it would translate to negative on the timeline.
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Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [02:53]
Jason Matzinger
But anyway, welcome to the Legends of the Wild podcast.
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Unnamed Guest 1
Thank you.
- [03:00]
Jason Matzinger
Thanks for joining us on the show.
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Unnamed Guest 1
Yeah, I'm stoked. What a cool thing. Brand new podcast and right here in my hometown.
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Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
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Unnamed Guest 1
Field and Stream.
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Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [03:09]
Jason Matzinger
Sitting in the Field and Stream lodge, which just opened. It sounds like this is the first of many of them, which is kind of cool. I guess they're gonna. I don't know how many they're gonna open, but. How would you, like, how would you describe this place? Like, when you came into it? Because it used to. It was a. It's a retrofitted hotel. But how would you, like, describe the decor of this place?
- [03:33]
Unnamed Guest 1
Well, it's. I'm not much of a interior design specialist by any means, but it definitely has kind of that old school hunting camp vibe from sort of the finishes and the mounts and things around it reminds me of. Yeah. Kind of going into like a fancy fishing lodge, like in the early 90s or. Yeah, something like that.
- [04:02]
Jason Matzinger
But. But a lodge that was still decorated from, like the 50s. It's like, you know, it has like, kind of like the Pendleton, like, you know, coverings on the chairs and like, the couch has, like, modern sporting art type stuff. It's very. It's very vintage Feeling. It looks like the, like, all of the, like, style of artwork and like the color scheme and it feels like, like the, like the early cover art of Feeling Stream magazine.
- [04:28]
Unnamed Guest 1
Yeah, I agree with that. I do like how they kind of kept that sort of vintage feel throughout it. I mean, you can see, like old covers throughout the building and they have the old magazines and stuff sitting here and. Yeah, it's very nostalgic, for sure. And I think Bozeman is a great place to represent that brand and sort of that lifestyle and. And way of life.
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Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
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Jason Matzinger
Well, we're going to dive into multiple things on this episode, but I want to start by just commending you for being one of the last actual Montanans in Bozeman here.
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Unnamed Guest 1
Well, thank you. I'm very proud of that.
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Unnamed Guest 2
Yes.
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Jason Matzinger
Yeah, I mean, it's. You know, I was a Montana resident for eight years and was proud to call Bozeman, Belgrade, you know, this area home for a little bit. But even in the short time that I was here, like, the town was changing. And so, like, maybe just describe, like, from growing up here, like, how different is this valley compared to what it was when you were coming up?
- [05:39]
Unnamed Guest 1
Oh, man. You know, it's kind of like, I guess watching your kids grow up or your dog get older, you don't see it all at once, but when you step back and take a look at old photos or, you know, like, when I was in fourth grade, my class photo and driving by the school, and now it's just engulfed in buildings that are kind of unrecognizable, but thinking, you know, the playground's still the same. There's. There is similarities that, you know, you can find if you were here kind of originally, but, man, it's a completely different town than when I grew up. And, you know, the vibe and the feeling of being here, it is still that ranching and outdoor community people are very active. Healthy lifestyle is a big thing here. I think overall, just generally speaking, it's the attitudes of the people that it's changed the most. You know, it doesn't feel like Montana anymore. The things that made Montana Montana, you know, small towns that everybody waves, everybody knows everybody, everybody helps everybody. I mean, that kind of a feeling overall is just. Seems to be a little bit lost.
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Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
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Jason Matzinger
You know, Well, I mean, Bozeman for the longest time was just considered, you know, a cow town out here. You know, it was just like, yeah, you've got Montana State University. But it was just like the, you know, seemed like for the longest time, the population wasn't, like, exploding.
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Unnamed Guest 1
Right.
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Jason Matzinger
Again, you can't, like, fault people for wanting to move here.
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Unnamed Guest 1
No, no. If I didn't live here, I would want to.
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Jason Matzinger
Right?
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Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
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Unnamed Guest 1
I mean, and it is interesting. Like, I just feel so lucky in. In ways because, you know, so many of my partners and industry kind of people now live here and work and operate out of here. And I. With working with brands and things. I love that personal touch. I love being able to go to lunch and talk about things and come up with cool ideas. And so, you know, Bozeman and the people here and the brands here have given me the ability to really have fun and have great relationships with the people I work with.
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Jason Matzinger
For sure.
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Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
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Jason Matzinger
It's definitely become, like, the epicenter or one of the epicenters of the kind of outdoor industry or hunting industry. Just lots of. Lots of different companies moved to town. And then with that came lots of people that were either working for those companies or working, you know, doing stuff for those companies. So it's been. It's. It's pretty cool.
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Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
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Jason Matzinger
I can bomber and I can, you know, drive into town like a bat out of hell and roam around for a day and go see, you know, 10 or 12 people that I need to connect with in person. Instead, you Know, instead of having to go to an industry show or something. Right. So it's pretty cool to. Yeah, it's been. Been fun to watch. At least that transition has been nice.
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Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah. Yeah.
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Unnamed Guest 1
No, that's definitely one of the positives. You know, the things I have noticed is just. It hit me about five years ago when I was spring bear hunting, because, you know, you used to be able to kind of hunt anywhere right around Bozeman and have it to yourself for the most part. And then all of a sudden, there was just this influx of people, and you didn't really know who was at your spot. Typically in the past, if there was another vehicle there, it's like, oh, that's Nathan or that's Casey or George or Mark, you know, and you go talk to them. But, you know, I really started to notice just with how many people were moving here, the difference in how far you had to get from town or back into the mountains to get away from people. And like I said, it really dawned on me one day when I had gotten frustrated with the hunting around here, and I decided I was going to take one of my long hikes south of town that always produced. And I never saw people in. And I hiked, you know, a better part of the day to get to this glassing point. And, like, I wasn't there two minutes, and I looked over and there was two guys on the knob right across from me and a little bit higher on the mountain. It just deflated me. I was like, man, this place has changed so much. And. But to your point, like, it's not their fault. I mean, they're doing exactly what I'm doing in an area that's great. So obviously, like, they're passionate and they've worked hard to be there. So it's. It's been kind of that balance of being frustrated with some of the changes, but. But, you know, learning how to adjust and. And still go do the things you love to do in the areas you love to do them and not let the growth bother you enough to. To stop you from doing it or, you know.
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Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
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Unnamed Guest 1
Having a negative attitude towards anyone or anything out there, for sure.
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Jason Matzinger
I mean, obviously, like, population is growing in a lot of these types of areas, and the people that are moving there are passionate about doing all the outdoor activities that we love to do. So it's, you know, it's. It's not just that there's more people in town. It's, you know, it's like 80% of those people hunt, fish, bike, hike, camp you know, so they're, you know, you're going to see more people out there in the field.
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Unnamed Guest 1
Exactly.
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Jason Matzinger
But that's just part of the, you know, I think it's part of the evolution of just kind of where we're at in this space and time.
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Unnamed Guest 1
Totally.
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Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
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Unnamed Guest 1
You know, and all it does is tighten you up and just makes you better. You have to work harder, you have to get up earlier, you have to beat them up the mountain. You got to just work a little harder. So at the end of the day, it just, just tightens you up for sure.
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Jason Matzinger
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'd like to, you know, you and I have spent a fair number of days in the field together, which I feel lucky about.
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Unnamed Guest 1
Likewise.
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Jason Matzinger
But even, you know, even through all that, I feel like there's, you know, I would like to hear kind of your history, you know, from growing up in Montana, kind of like easing into the, the outdoor space. Cause it's, you know, you didn't start like your, you know, your career didn't start in outdoor media. Right. So, you know, like the filming photography has always been a passion, like on the side. But like, why don't you just run this? You know, you got as much Runway as you want. You know, take us through growing up in Montana and then like how that transition happened into, you know, the TV show and all that stuff.
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Unnamed Guest 1
Well, I mean, going way back, it started just with my dad. Him and his best friend George Deeref had like an old video camera that had little two minute reels of film on it with no sound. And from the time of being little and hearing the stories of dad and George talk and then being able to project that on the wall and watch them hunt like caribou in Quebec and just random adventures. Buffalo in South Dakota. And it was like a big moment for the family. Like it was a whole night of, of because you would have to like take a picture off the wall. You'd have to set the projector up just right, you know, get it plugged in. Everybody would gather around and it would take so much setup to just watch one 2 minute reel of tape that like it was, it was a full on movie night for us to watch, you know, 102 minute reels of tape. So it started from that and then just being able to hunt and go out and enjoy the woods and, and around that time is when like Wild America was on. I, I can't remember if it was like on every Saturday night or whatever it was, but it was something that we watched all the time. Wild America was like my favorite show. That and Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom. I used to love watching that. Mostly that was in Africa, but it was still wildlife. It was still kind of hunting and conservation based type show. And from there, like, Gordon Eastman, you know, he's always been a big inspiration of mine. I remember that's when we would have to go to like Blockbuster or it wasn't even Blockbuster at the time. It was like a little aisle in IGA or something where we would go to the special interest VHS tapes and there would be a handful of them there. Gordon Eastman. And then I think Stoney Wolf started to come along. I remember the Stoney Wolf videos, but I think Gordon was influential for me because he was that real blend of like a filmmaker. But. But hunting was always the key to, like, the stories he was telling.
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Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
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Unnamed Guest 1
And that to me was really fascinating because, you know, I loved the an. I loved wanting to capture the animals and behavior as much as I did like hunting in the process, you know, so that was a great blend. And then just as things moved along, my dad got a video camera that I could pack when him and George were hunting. You know, I wasn't really no purpose. I would just film whatever.
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Jason Matzinger
Right.
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Unnamed Guest 1
But it kind of got that mindset going and. And you know, around that time was when like, Outdoor Channel started and then Sportsman's Channel started. And so now you could, like watch it on TV instead of having to go rent a VHS or a DVD or whatever. And I just realized the more I started watching stuff that now represented where I was from, it wasn't just, you know, Mutual Omaha or Wild America. It was actually hunting done around my area or the way that I did it. And I just, early on just felt like it was missing a whole lot of what was special about hunting and what. What was important about hunting, you know, from not only a family tradition and heritage standpoint, but, like, why is hunting important in today's society? Why should people care? And that. That was just lost. You know, when I first started, it was really like, how many kills and kind of how graphic can you kind of shock factor was what made hunting videos, like, blow up before I started.
- [16:12]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
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Unnamed Guest 1
You know, and so I think all that background just kind of funneled me into this place of like. Well, I used to love watching my dad film, like before I knew anybody else film and hunting stuff. And, you know, the people that were doing it at the time, like Marty Stouffer and Gordon Eastman, and, you know, the way they went about it, they made the animal first and hunting was second. And that's always been something that I've kept important for what I do, you know, and we can touch on that more when it comes to, like, longevity in the industry. But I just. Yeah, I started guiding then right out of high school, and I was like, oh, my God. What I get to see every day out here is absolutely amazing. Nobody gets to see this on tv. Like, they see elk hunting, but it's not elk hunting. Yeah, like, I want to show them what really happens out here. Like, what drives us. Like, the beautiful sunrises, the elk bugling. I wanted to capture, like, better audio. I wanted to capture better everything. And like, you talk about the timing, like, that's right when plants. Planet Earth came out was right when my TV show came out. And I watched Planet Earth. And I mean, I know everybody around the world watched that and their jaws were just. Their mouths were open the whole time. Like, amazing, amazing cinematography. And the dedication of those photographers and cinematographers to get those shots was so inspiring. And I, I was like, this is like, I want this show to be Planet Earth meets Sportsman's Channel.
- [17:55]
Jason Matzinger
Yeah.
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Unnamed Guest 1
And so it's just like one step led to the next and everything, but. But they all kind of went together. You know, there was always that cinematic storytelling, animal first, conservation. That's always been the driving factor. And it's funny how they've all just been this thread that have weaved together from the very beginning stage to even what I do now. And.
- [18:24]
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- [18:54]
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- [19:24]
Unnamed Guest 1
Yeah, I mean, well, I think that's.
- [19:26]
Jason Matzinger
One of the cool, like one of the cool things that when I was thinking about podcasting with you and talking to you about your, like, journey through this whole thing. I had seen a clip somewhere and it was somebody talking about how you should be documenting, not creating like content. Like so. And you have done a good job of that forever. Like you have been documenting what actually happens, like in the woods, like on these hunts, you know, to tell the story in a way that's more documentary style rather than just like sensationalizing, you know, the moment or whatever and just creating content. To create content.
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Unnamed Guest 1
Correct.
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Jason Matzinger
And I think that's the. I think that's what sets people like you apart is actually being able to like being so passionate about all of the other stuff first. And then the byproduct of that is punch and tags.
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Unnamed Guest 1
Right.
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Jason Matzinger
You know, and so I, And I think that's been really cool. But like, like you said with Planet Earth, like, it seems like in this space there's always been. And it. A lot of times it comes from outside of the industry. I mean, most of the time it does, because that's where bigger budgets are.
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Unnamed Guest 1
Yes.
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Jason Matzinger
But the, the bar continues to get set higher and higher and higher. And so that trickle down effect of people who are creating and documenting stuff within the hunting and fishing space, that level has to rise to the occasion, you know, when something like Planet Earth comes out. So. Yeah, like, I've just always been, I've always admired how you have gone about the way you document everything, so.
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Unnamed Guest 1
Oh, I appreciate that. I mean, you know, and it all came from what I didn't want, what I saw that I didn't like, I didn't like, you know, big over the top reactions. Like, I never hunted with anybody that acted that way ever. And I still never have, you know.
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Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
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Unnamed Guest 1
I've gotten excited enough a couple times to like full on fist pump.
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Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
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Unnamed Guest 1
And I watch it back on video and I'm like, why did I. I mean, I was excited. Like, really, really excited.
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Jason Matzinger
Yeah.
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Unnamed Guest 1
That's been like a couple times in my life. And even then when I watch it back, I'm like, I don't know, I just. And it's because I've always not wanted, you know, I want it, want it to be authentic. And that's where it comes from. A documentation standpoint is like, we don't do recreates. We don't fake anything. We don't set up shots. We don't, you know, if we're making a film or a, like a documentary style one hour special, then sure, we'll set up certain shots for like interviews or you know, good camp scenes or.
- [22:09]
Jason Matzinger
Yeah, well, there's something. There's things that you need to fill the storyline with, like, in order to better visually tell the story that you're trying to tell. There's things that you have to do where it's like, setup shots. But as someone who has filmed you in the woods, I should have counted it all up. But it's like. It's like 50 some days or more that, like, you know, I've filmed you all day hunting. And, like, we didn't do a lot of that. I mean, you know, you know, if. If we did, it was like, you know, a camp scene where it was like a series of shots that showed, like, we're waking up in camp and then we're leaving to go hunt.
- [22:44]
Unnamed Guest 1
Right.
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Jason Matzinger
You know, or it's, you know, we're loading up the truck and we're doing this. But, like, everything else was in the moment, you know, stuff where, as a camera operator, incredibly stressful.
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Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
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Unnamed Guest 1
But totally.
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Jason Matzinger
But awesome at the end because it wasn't like, oh, I just got the shot on film. Okay, now we got to go back and. And film you drawing your bow or, you know, racking a shell or doing all that, you know, whatever it might be. So, yeah, it's. That. That's a cool way to do it, for sure.
- [23:11]
Unnamed Guest 1
Well, I appreciate that. And, yeah, it's just you can tell when people are doing it, when it's not authentic. And. And that's just something we've always steered away from. For sure.
- [23:24]
Jason Matzinger
Yeah, absolutely. So you obviously. I mean, obviously the filming was always a passion, but when, like, you were guiding right out of high school, wanted to document all this stuff. But then you didn't, like, you became an electrician, right?
- [23:39]
Unnamed Guest 1
Yeah. So during my time of guiding, I was actually working as an apprentice electrician for my family's electrical company here in Bozeman. And obviously, my dad knew my passion for hunting and everything, so he would give me the time off to go guide in the fall. Those few weeks in Bow and then several weeks in rifle. But I would still have to come back, like, every Wednesday and do my content independent electrical contracting classes in Bozeman, which were like, four hours once a week. Sure thing. So I would drive back. I would guide in the morning, drive back, do my class. I would either stay here and get up really early or just drive back that night and get in real late. But kind of did that for a while, and then that's when I was like, gosh, I should start filming some of this because, man, this is so cool, the stuff I get to see. I mean, when you're guiding clients every single day on a great ranch, I mean, you're calling in bulls almost every day and cool things happen, you know. I learned a ton through watching other people's mistakes, too. That's another thing I did. Did appreciate about guiding is like being able to sit back is like a fly on the wall and watch the elk come in, watch the bow hunter, watch when he draws, watch what the elk sees, watch what the elk picks up, watch what the elk hears, you know?
- [25:07]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah, you.
- [25:08]
Unnamed Guest 1
You get to learn a lot, and it's not at the cost of your time and your tag.
- [25:13]
Jason Matzinger
Right.
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Unnamed Guest 1
And so that. That was another thing I really appreciated about guiding. But the outfitter I worked for at the time ended up, like, moving away and kind of getting rid of the outfitting business. And another outfitter came in and he had his own guide. So we moved on. And that's when I was like, okay, well, full on electrician now. So did that. Got my journeyman's license, continued to film. Like, once I wasn't guiding hunters, I was able to really focus more on the film because I realized even when I tried to film, when I was guiding, it just I had to focus on guiding.
- [25:53]
Jason Matzinger
Right, Yeah. I mean, your clients are paying you to. To be the guide, not to be the camera guy. Exactly.
- [25:57]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [25:58]
Unnamed Guest 1
So that didn't last very long, trying to do both. But yeah, I was an adjourneyman electrician, and I enjoyed it. You know, I mean, we got to work on great big houses like in the Yellowstone Club, and very custom stuff. And I used to love, you know, hiding wires and making things work and in these custom homes. And anyway, I got the chance to do the TV show. Like, I proposed to John Edwards, who owned Schnees. He bought the. The powder horn from dad's best friend, George.
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Jason Matzinger
Yep.
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Unnamed Guest 1
And we'll shoot. George and dad is who inspired me. They who I had a ton of film on. And so I was able to talk to John and just say, hey, would you be willing to do you want to do a TV show? And, you know, really talked to him for a while, and he decided that would be something that would be fun. And we started the show, year one, called Powderhorn Montana. Sweet. And it was. It meant a lot to me because the Powderhorn is the store I grew up in. You know, it's. That's George's family's place.
- [27:10]
Jason Matzinger
Right.
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Unnamed Guest 1
So a lot of memories there. And. And I was scared to death because I, you know, had just had a baby, was fairly recently married, was starting the show, was trying to work during the day. My wife at the time was a night nurse. So kind of we're a little bit where you're at right now. I mean, I work all day, and then as soon as I'd get home, she had been watching him all day, right? And she would go in to work as a night nurse and I would watch him. But I was trying to edit at the same time. So it was like listening to the baby monitor when he would go to bed and edit, you know, super quiet in the room so you wouldn't wake him up. And then every little sound, you're, like, going up, getting the check on him. And so, like, that time in my life of being like, I gotta be a good dad. I gotta show up for work, and I'm not gonna let this chance at my dream fail completely change my life. Sleep meant nothing.
- [28:13]
Jason Matzinger
I mean, and the little bits you got meant everything, right?
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Unnamed Guest 1
I mean, I would. In my editing software, I was just so green at this. I didn't know what I was doing. Any air would just send my mind into a tailspin on an export because I wouldn't know how to fix it.
- [28:29]
Jason Matzinger
Right.
- [28:30]
Unnamed Guest 1
You know, so I would sleep on my office floor and.
- [28:34]
Jason Matzinger
Or continue sleep on your office floor with, like, anxiety.
- [28:37]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [28:38]
Unnamed Guest 1
Waiting to hear the like. Like, it had a. Like an air. Because I. I was so up against deadlines that if I. If that export failed in the night and I came in the next morning and it wasn't done. It wasn't getting delivered on tag.
- [28:53]
Jason Matzinger
Right.
- [28:53]
Unnamed Guest 1
And all of a sudden they're asking for a rerun or something. You know, it just screws up my entire schedule.
- [28:59]
Jason Matzinger
Because what year. What year would this have been?
- [29:02]
Unnamed Guest 1
Like 2009.
- [29:04]
Jason Matzinger
Right? So, I mean, this was like, you know, really the transition to, like, the digital editing media, digital cameras and that kind of stuff. So they're like the. For anybody listening, there wasn't like a. You get an error code, and you couldn't go to YouTube or a forum and say, you know, like, basically copy and paste which error you got in. And then there's 400 videos of how to fix it. This was a time, because I remember in 2011, working for Midwest Whitetail, the same anxiety about uploading or trying to export a show. But just that. That noise that you described was. Is quite possibly the worst thing. Like, because it would be. It would be like, like, all right, I got it all edited. It's perfectly clean, and Then bonk. Like it full, you know, blue screen, just terrible.
- [29:55]
Unnamed Guest 1
Yeah, well, not to mention too like the exports would take like seven hours. It wasn't like a, oh, I gotta wait 15 minutes and I can upload it to the server.
- [30:05]
Jason Matzinger
Right.
- [30:05]
Unnamed Guest 1
It was like a seven hour export.
- [30:08]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [30:09]
Jason Matzinger
And then if you got, and then if you got an error, sometimes it would be like for some reason it didn't like a transition.
- [30:15]
Unnamed Guest 1
Well, you know, usually what it was something just so dumb.
- [30:18]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah, yeah.
- [30:22]
Unnamed Guest 1
Anyway. Yeah, yeah. So I decided to do the show and just never really looked back. The show, you know, was. I look back at those first years and it's kind of funny that that's where we started and that's what I thought was the best thing to do. But it got us here and it's hard to believe, like we're about to kick off season 16 here in less than 10 days and it's just hard to. Hard to believe.
- [30:53]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [30:53]
Jason Matzinger
I mean, yeah. So season 16, which, you know, I was gonna say it's hard for me to wrap my head around, but I've been doing like, I've been in the hunting industry creating media for, since 2011, so I'm sneaking right up on it. Like, I haven't had a show for that long, but one of the things I wanted to dive into was longevity in the hunting space. Especially like at such a high level because I've been through it where maybe it's adhd, maybe it's, you know, some sort of just how my brain is wired. But I find that like I'll dive into something like photography. Right. You know, so then I go do that really hard and then like three, four, maybe five years I could like, I like start to like get into this point where I'm like, I gotta do something else. And it's almost not even like burnout. It's just like I kind of. You set out to do a certain number of goals within the little niche that you're, you know, approaching, and then you hit those goals and you're like, all right, what's the next thing that I could do? So how do you, I mean, how have you balanced like, you know, you have consistent, constant deadlines, you know, you're creating something, you know, it's not. You're not just uploading stuff online. Like you do upload a lot of stuff, like just directly to, you know, like whatever, just online streaming type things, you know, kind of semi live content through the different social media platforms. But for the TV show, like, how have you balanced the like without burning out for, you know, 16 years at this point.
- [32:32]
Unnamed Guest 1
Well, I think, you know what got me through a lot of them in the beginning was just that drive to succeed. Yeah, I went through a divorce right in the beginning and trying to get this show going and I just put a lot of pressure on myself. Like I didn't want to, like, let my family or you know, go through a divorce and not be able to chase my dream. So I was like, okay, well, if family has not worked out the way I wanted as far as being married and all that, then I'm gonna give it 110% at the TV. And so I had that drive of like, I can't fail, I'm not going to let this fail in the beginning from that. But also just the passion, you know, I mean, you hear the comments like, oh, doing it for the gram, or they wouldn't do this if it wasn't on film. That's bullshit.
- [33:29]
Jason Matzinger
Agreed.
- [33:29]
Unnamed Guest 1
100% bullshit. Because social media was not a thing when I started doing this. It wasn't about putting it on the gram.
- [33:37]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [33:38]
Unnamed Guest 1
It was about creating great stories that represented hunters and could make us all proud. That was my goal. Like, I wanted to be a voice that would make everybody proud when they would watch it. Like, you know, a role model. I, I say this all the time. I don't know, whatever happened to role models? How they became influencers and that became this word that didn't have the respect of a role model. But I always wanted to be a role model, right. To, to anybody, you know, new hunters, hunters who have been there forever. You know, one of my favorite compliments is guys that like, like my dad's age, George, or like George beat us or guys like that who come up and say, you know, man, I love your program. Like that is such a pattern. Like it makes me feel so good that that generation is proud of what I'm doing. And still you get 16 year old boys who come up and are like, oh my God, I can't believe it's you. Can I get a picture right? And so for me it's like I've always just been passionate about it and never wanted it to fail. And the other thing is like putting the animal first. I mentioned that in the beginning, like telling the animal story and the habitat is most important to me. Like, because without, you know, quality habitat and quality wildlife populations, nothing that on the hunting side that we could talk about even matters. So that's been the basis of everything. Like every episode I do is 50, 50 on what's important for the animal, what helps them thrive and survive out there as well as like 50% of. If somebody was watching this hunting show for the first time, would they appreciate it? Would they see like hunters care for the game and, and there's a deeper understanding there, Would they get turned off and just like, oh, that doesn't look like something I need to do. So. And I think third, you know, like last for me is I, I have always done it for the right reasons in my own mind. I've done it because I'm passionate about it. I want to leave everything we're doing better than we found it. And so if I was chasing something, any one thing, I probably would have got burned out by it.
- [36:09]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [36:10]
Unnamed Guest 1
But I don't know what, what I am chasing. I just know that it, it just seems to take this natural evolution, like I don't have to force anything. I don't, you know, I think a lot of guys in my position start to feel the pressure of like, okay, I've been doing the show this long, how can I change it up or what can I do different or do I have to go on more trips? Do I have to go on different trips? Do I have to kill bigger animals? Do I have to make more posts? You know, all those things. And it's like I, I just love that for me, I just always want it to feel right or I don't want to do it. And so I love the evolution that the show has taken from me. Chasing my own personal goals in the beginning and not letting it fail to then realizing, okay, this is a thing and it's going to go on as long as I want it to, to then really taking ownership for everything I say and do instead of just trying to make it but like, okay, who do I want to be known as? What legacy do I want to leave? And so I really started to hone who I wanted to represent, you know, and what I wanted to represent. And as you kind of. And a lot of that came with like documentary filmmaking, working with the conservation organizations. You know, I've been working on a kind of a conservation series for, since 2014 with Project Elk, when we first came out with that film. And so I would like to make at least a series of six of these full length documentary conservation films to then have a nice package to then hopefully sell to like a Netflix or try to get it out there on a bigger level.
- [38:01]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [38:02]
Unnamed Guest 1
So doing the conservation films, helping the orgs tell their stories has been just something that's Given me a ton of fulfillment, too. And really interesting. I mean, from interviewing the world's leading biologists on elk and mule deer and sheep and. And it's just fascinating to me.
- [38:23]
Jason Matzinger
It's.
- [38:23]
Unnamed Guest 1
It's like a college course with the most educated professors one on one. And for me, I. That's what makes me tick. I love it. So that process keeps me just excited about the next thing. The TV show is like, it just always finds its own way to evolve. I was telling you before we started recording, like, I did hit this phase with the TV show real recently, like the last year or two, where I started thinking, like, do I need to come up with a new title? Like, I'm not going to be. I'm 46 years old now. I've never felt better, but I'm not going to be Mr. In Too High country for Life. So what is the next step? Do I need to start thinking about that now? And I think I was just overthinking it because the reality is the show's never done better. I've never had better partners. I've never had more viewership. I've never. Like, there's no reason to change it other than up here, like, in my own mind. Yeah, it's doing just fine.
- [39:26]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [39:27]
Unnamed Guest 1
So.
- [39:28]
Jason Matzinger
And I think that comes with the cup. That comes from the consistency you've had through six to 15 seasons, you know, so it's. It's a show that people can count on for being high quality, telling a good story, connecting it all back to conservation and the animal first. In an era where there's a lot of sensationalizing everything, where everything's breaking news and everything this and everything's that you have remained. And one of the things I've always admired is all of your stuff has remained a little bit understated, but you get the message across without being so, like having to be so overbearing on it, having to be like, you don't have to, like, get really loud to get your message across. Like, it's just been like your constant theme has just followed this ribbon, you know, through the course of time. And I would. I have to believe that that's why everything continues to trend upward for you. Because it's like, oh, I know I can go watch that show. I can be entertained. I can probably learn something. I can understand how all of this is connected in a better way. And then I know that the next episode that comes out, I get to do that again. So, yeah, I think it's easy to get into your own Head and want to change stuff when really the correct course of action is just straight and narrow.
- [40:46]
Unnamed Guest 1
Yeah. And just doing it for the reasons that you want to do it. Like, if you make a decision of, I want to go hunting elk this weekend, it shouldn't be because you have to film a segment.
- [40:58]
Jason Matzinger
Right.
- [40:58]
Unnamed Guest 1
It shouldn't be because you feel the pressure from a partner. It shouldn't be, like, doing it for what fulfills your heart is another thing that, like, don't. If anybody's listening that wants to do this or. You know, I really feel like the longevity in the industry for me has come from just not forcing anything. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. Like, if I don't see an animal that gets me excited, I'm not going to take one just because I feel like I've got to make one more episode that doesn't fulfill me. It doesn't do any good for the show. And it's just. It's not. It's not a good way to think about it.
- [41:35]
Jason Matzinger
Right.
- [41:36]
Unnamed Guest 1
You know? And, like, what I love about where I'm at in hunting is I'm to the point where, like, last year was the first year I didn't fill my deer tag in Montana. Since I've been 12 years old, I didn't fill my deer tag. I helped my son and my girlfriend kill great old, old bucks. I just didn't find anything for myself that really got me excited. And so I wasn't, like, bummed that I didn't kill a deer. I was happy. I didn't kill a deer for the wrong reason, you know?
- [42:10]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [42:10]
Unnamed Guest 1
And what I love about the evolution of all of this is right when I started to be like, what do I have to do? Because I don't feel the need to take a bear every year. I don't feel the need, you know, fill every tag every year unless it's an animal that excites me.
- [42:26]
Jason Matzinger
Like.
- [42:27]
Unnamed Guest 1
But what I love about it is now with Dawson coming up and Asher coming up and hunting with Tara and my dad just at the phase he's at in hunting, I just hunting with friends. Like, when I sat down to really put together this season and I looked at all the different clips when I was putting together kind of a trailer for it, it just made my heart so happy because I didn't have to do anything other than what I would have done as a father, as a boyfriend, as a son. Like, we hunt the same way we hunted before I ever even thought about having a TV show. We're in the same area, we hunt the same style. I get to take my boys to the same basins I looked at when I was little. Like, it's all so natural. And when I watched the season, the evolution wasn't something I had to think of, it's just something that happened. And naturally, like the boys bring so much energy to the show. And having somebody like Tara on there as just, you know, her personality brings a different energy. And my dad, you know, he's such a character. He doesn't even really hunt anymore, but just his presence is so great. I mean, the scenes with me and my dad and my boys out there just make my heart so happy. Happy. There's one scene on an episode we're working on right now. That's where the credits roll at the end. And all it is is a scene of me and Dawson and Asher. And it's kind of from elevated and you see this big flat with just nothing in it and clear in the distance. You see my dad at the side by side and he's just leaned over the back smoking a cigar, watching us, you know, walking back from this antelope stock. And it's just like. It's such a simple scene. Yeah, but it's like those little moments last a lifetime. And when we're able to capture it on camera, it just, you know, it's. It's those moments that happen so fast you don't really realize it. And then when you see that outside perspective of what's going on, it's like it's so special. And that's what's going to come across with the show this year is this is going to be, I feel like really the first year where you're going to see that next evolution of into high country. You know, me embracing where I'm at, happy where I'm at in my hunting career, happy where I'm at as a father, wanting to do the best for my boys, wanting to make things comfortable for dad and just kind of like, yeah, embracing all aspects from the new ones coming in to my dad, who's now just on his way out and enjoying the ride.
- [45:08]
Jason Matzinger
Yeah, it's the next season of life. Right. Like in through the lens of hunting and like that scene you described, you know, it's. It's some. Like you said, it's something so simple, but like if you don't have a camera rolling on that, it's something that you can't go back and look at later, you know, like 10, 15 years down the road. Like it Would have been a, it may have been a memory where you're like, I remember that time we were antelope punting and just all of us were together.
- [45:33]
Unnamed Guest 1
Right.
- [45:33]
Jason Matzinger
And like now you have this clip that like shows that like in its perfectness, like forever. Totally. And so documenting that stuff, you know, to me there's a lot of times where I frickin hate carrying a camera around. I love, I love taking photos and video and creating beautiful scenes and capturing cool stuff. But man, there's times where I'm like, get it out of here. But every time I have gone back and watched footage or looked through photos that I've taken, I have never been mad that I had the camera with me. Like it never has ever taken away from the experience. Correct for me. And I, yeah, I mean like, I find myself just like, I mean, I'm sure all of you listen to this at one point or another. You've sat on a plane or in a, in a car ride or whatever and you just scroll back through your phone and look at all the photos from, you know, five, 10, 15 years ago. It's the same way, you know, at this level it's just the photos and video clips are nicer, you know, it's just a higher, higher end equipment. So it's the same type of thing, but just this documenting of the life and all that stuff. And I think the other, one of the other cool things you talked about how this is going to be kind of weaving in other people's stories, like into the season with your kids and your girlfriend and your dad and like everyone, all the characters that you have surrounded yourself with. That's one of my favorite things that you've done is your boys have been a constant in a storyline like as you've come up and like some of the, some of the funniest stories like, and they're, they're not even on camera on the show or whatever. But some of the funniest stories that I will just think about from time to time is stuff you've told me about. It happened in the woods with your kids. And like now being a new dad, I'm like, oh man. Like, you know, you're talking about the, you guys, you were like listening for turkeys and your boys were pretty young and you're like, you hear that gobble and it's like, dad, I pooped, you know, or whatever it was. And it's just like some of that stuff is like, oh, that, like that's the golden stuff. Like you're trying to, like, share this experience in the woods. So you're really trying to, like, point something out, and they're in their own little world. Oh, yeah. Doing this whole other thing. And, like, the fact that you have just not, like, tried to keep that separate and just embrace that and, like, turn that into part of, like, your long, ongoing documentary of everything is the one. It's one of my favorite things.
- [48:03]
Unnamed Guest 2
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [48:05]
Unnamed Guest 1
No, it's. It's great. Yeah. I've got a lot of funny memories caught on camera with those two.
- [48:12]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [48:12]
Unnamed Guest 1
On and off. But, yeah. And it's. So. Yeah, it's. For me, I've never hit a phase of feeling burned out. I've. I've hit phases of, like, feeling like I need to do something different. But it didn't come from a place of burnout, like you say. It's just like, should I be. Am I falling behind? You know, all the things that you want to do, you're. We strive for perfection. We want to be the people setting the bar. We want to be at the forefront of what's going on. And, you know, I think that just comes with not being complacent and wanting what's next. But, man, I just. I do feel lucky. I think there's just a lot of factors that come with longevity in the industry. I think doing it for the right reasons, like, having the right partners, not doing it for anyone else. Like, you know, don't think you have to create something like, what's been created to make it, you know, be yourself, be natural, and, like. Yeah, I've felt very fortunate. My partners have made my life much easier because of the support they've shown me. And I don't know what's next necessarily, but I'm excited to see. I mean, just because it's always just happened.
- [49:37]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [49:37]
Unnamed Guest 1
You know, so, yeah, I am excited to kick this season out, for sure.
- [49:42]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [49:43]
Jason Matzinger
So we glossed over it real quick when you talked about a couple of the, like, the longer film projects you've done. But, like, you know, I've been kind of carrying the conservation flag for a good chunk of time now.
- [49:56]
Unnamed Guest 2
You bet.
- [49:57]
Jason Matzinger
You know, but a lot of that came from working with you. It was like seeing the passion for, like, conservation and access and public lands and, like, being part of these bigger organizations, you know, rmef, Wild Sheep and doing these, like, really in depth things. Like, I mean, it certainly helped kind of, like, foster my passion for, like, all right, yeah, I'm gonna build a damn school bus and drive around the country and wave this flag around and try to, you know, keep people informed on this stuff. But I wanted to talk about, like, I've been lucky to be part of, you know, film some parts of some of these films, but I want you to just go through those. You said you wanted to do a series of six, but what do you have out there right now? Like, and this goes back to me saying how it's a little bit understated, like the way you've done this stuff where it's not like overly loud, but the number of people that these films and projects have touched, it goes way beyond what anyone might think. So, like, just take us through which films you have that are out there in the world and then maybe some of the stuff they've been used for, like project Help that's been used for hunter education and things like that. So I just dive into that. I'm like, I've loved all of them, obviously I've been part of some of them and I think it's just a very cool way to leave a very long lasting legacy in the space.
- [51:14]
Unnamed Guest 1
Well, I appreciate hearing that. And yeah, you've been a champion in conservation for as long as I can remember. And you know, it's humbling to hear you say that because, you know, I feel the same way about you. You know, what you do inspires me to keep working harder too. So I appreciate that and all you've done, but with the television or with the documentaries. So the very first one, I teamed up with the Rocky Mountain Elk foundation to create a film titled Project Elk. And my whole idea behind that was the slogan Hunting is conservation. That's something that RMEF has used as their slogan for as long as I can remember. And to you and I, it makes a lot of sense to people outside the space. How is hunting? Conservation is confusing. So I really wanted to document the changing of seasons with elk, like winter, spring, summer, fall. And really what do the elk need during those times to thrive and survive? And what are hunters doing through all of the season to help ensure that the wildlife is getting what they need, whether it be, you know, winter range habitat, migration corridors being kept open, you know, whatever it may be, the need of that individual animal disease testing this is so many different factors for whatever animal it is. But for, for that one specifically, I wanted to show what elk need to thrive and survive, what hunters were doing to help ensure that and to reinforce statement to people who may not know how hunting is conservation.
- [53:04]
Unnamed Guest 2
Right.
- [53:04]
Unnamed Guest 1
So that's really what started it all. And it was through the hunting Lens, we show you that hunters care about wildlife all times of the year, whether it's watching them on the winter range or going to look for shed antlers and seeing where they're living then, or watching them in the summer, all the things we do all year long. And that just sparked, like, the fire in me once I got that done. That was, for me, the first time of truly doing the planet Earth meets hunting for me. Yeah, like, the shots that we took the time to get of elk and the way we went about it. And I was so proud of that film. Still am. I mean, I. It really kind of, like, kicked off that whole series for me, because at the time, I didn't know I was wanting to do a series. It was just, I want to make this film. And then when I did one, I was like, I can do this again for mule deer, and I can do it again for sheep. So the next one was Project Mule Deer, where I teamed up with the Mule Deer Foundation. Well, the difference between mule deer and elk is they're completely different animals and what they need to thrive and survive. Mule deer are very sensitive in what they need for habitat and migration corridors. And so with Project Elk, it was, how is hunting conservation? With Project Mule Deer, it was land and keeping land together. How important is winter range? How important are the migration corridors that connect spring, summer, and winter ranges? How far? This was right at the time we were really discovering how far mule deer were traveling. Like, we. 20 years ago, we didn't even know there was a mule deer migration.
- [54:47]
Unnamed Guest 2
Right?
- [54:48]
Unnamed Guest 1
It was.
- [54:49]
Jason Matzinger
And now we figured out that they're traveling upwards of. It's like 100, 140 miles or some of them. So, yeah, completely different. Like, I think the takeaway is, like, what's good for one species, you know, that we do on a yearly basis is not necessarily the same. Good thing for another species that we need, like, you know, in the fall, we are simply intersecting their life at a very small part of their season.
- [55:15]
Unnamed Guest 1
Exactly.
- [55:15]
Jason Matzinger
And then most of us and, you know, it's like you're. It's like you intersect them there, and then you're out again.
- [55:21]
Unnamed Guest 1
Totally.
- [55:21]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [55:22]
Jason Matzinger
And so very cool to, like, show, like, spotlight how different those two are.
- [55:28]
Unnamed Guest 1
Yeah, for sure. And so we documented mule deer through the changing of seasons, and it was a perfect time where they were really discovering this habit or this migration that was happening. And it was right when Zinke, you know, signed the bill to keep migration corridors open. And so it was just the perfect timing to tell the mule Deer's story. And then right about that time, I got my second sheep tag. And it just brought up the perfect time to talk about why, like, auction tags, governor tags, that kind of thing is important for wildlife management because, you know, there's a lot of back and forth on what's. What's right and what's wrong there.
- [56:18]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [56:19]
Jason Matzinger
And from the outside looking in, I can understand why it would be easy to look at these giant auction tags and go, well, that's. It's just people with a lot of money, you know, that are just, you know, basically showing off that kind of thing. And it's hard without diving into it and doing a little bit of research. It's hard to know, like, okay, that $600,000 went to this without reading. If you just see the headline like, sheep tag sells for, you know, 650,000 and you're not in the hunting industry or you don't hunt, you don't fish, you don't spend time in that, you would see that, like, oh, God, somebody's buying an animal for $650,000 to just go shoot one. When the reality is, is that $650,000 is reinvested into habitat access, biologists, other studies, like disease management, you know, and everything that goes into keeping a herd healthy in one shot. So rather than spending lots of money on a marketing campaign and, you know, having to raise money over a course of five years, you get to have somebody who has the means show up, spend the money, and all of that goes right back into the animal.
- [57:28]
Unnamed Guest 1
Yeah.
- [57:28]
Jason Matzinger
So that, I mean. Yeah, to. To document that is a cool in itself because then it gives an audience, a much larger audience, an understanding of, like, how the breakdown of how all that money flows.
- [57:39]
Unnamed Guest 1
100%. Yeah. And I thought using kind of the. The attention that the second sheep tag had gotten was a good way to tell that story because. Yeah, I. I actually just did. I'm working on a video right now with wild sheep and the Arizona fishing game on the raffle tag and auction tag there, you know, because Arizona has recently decided to kind of away from some of the governor.
- [58:12]
Jason Matzinger
Right.
- [58:13]
Unnamed Guest 1
Tag type stuff and go into more of a public raffle.
- [58:16]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yep.
- [58:19]
Jason Matzinger
Continue.
- [58:19]
Unnamed Guest 1
Yeah, well, I just. I was going to use the point that. And I don't know the dates I should pull it up on my email. But basically from the time that this system has started in Arizona, I think it went from like 44 bighorn licenses available to now present day, which I think is like 20 years later, something like that. There is 156 tags available for sheep. And so that's kind of like the fast track of what, what is happening with that money. One guy spends a lot of money that goes into this research that ultimately creates new herds, new opportunities, bigger, healthier herds that allows the state to, to give more licenses to the public draw system.
- [59:06]
Jason Matzinger
Right.
- [59:07]
Unnamed Guest 1
There's, there's no source of funding that can replace that right now. Yeah, there's not enough money that comes in through the state and federal agencies to take care of sheep the way they need to be taken care of. So it's kind of this, it's come from a need to make sure sheep are being taken care of the way they need to be. And in the proof is in the pudding. Like when you look at the numbers of when this started to where they are now and the amount of opportunities out there, I mean, it's clearly working. So that was really the whole basis behind the Circle of Life was the name of that film, which was the third in the series. So now we're talked about how hunting is conservation, why land management and habitat and migration corridors are important to keep open. And now why are, you know, auction tags through these organizations and governor tags important for public hunting. So that was third. The very next one was a film called Project Landlocked, which came at a time when the corner crossing Right. Became a big deal.
- [60:17]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [60:18]
Unnamed Guest 1
And it's right when Onyx came out with their landlocked report alongside the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership and they really started to put definitive numbers on the amount of landlocked properties around the west, which for people that don't know what that is, it is public land completely surrounded by private, with no public access. And they started to figure out like 16, 18 million acres across the west of landlocked public land. And so it's kind of that data that is shocking to a certain number of people, but it's just numbers on a piece of paper. We wanted to create a film to really bring awareness to this issue. So that's what we did. We, we basically delivered all of the landlocked report that Theodore Roosevelt and Onyx had come up with through a film where I flew a helicopter in to a landlocked piece of property and bowhunted elk and was successful and came out. I mean it, it was still one of my like funnest films to make for sure, as I don't know if I would ever do it again. But it was a fun film to document and I. Every one of these films, I learned so much, you know, it makes me so much better when I go out and I talk to people who don't understand. And that's what I want these films to do. I want it to educate people that don't know, but I also want it to like, educate the army. I want, I want people to know why it's so dang important, this stuff and why our role in it is so important.
- [62:02]
Jason Matzinger
Yeah, and it does it in a cool way because like, obviously you just can't be the one that's talking to everyone. You know, you're not gonna post up like on a corner and be like, hey, have you heard about it's. But it might be a film. Like if you're a non hunter, you stumble across and you get to watch this cool documentary unfold and be like, I had no idea that there was a fight over, you know, airspace above two corners of public land that nobody can get to, you know, and since then there's been this giant court case in Wyoming, and then now there's six states that have allowed corner crossing as, as legal. So I'd imagine the sale of double sided ladders has gone up quite a bit. You know, but at the same time, like you said, educate the army. It's people who have an interest in hunting already. Like I think back to, you know, call it 10, 12 years ago really before I started, you know, talking about public lands and raising awareness about it. I was so naive when it came to public lands, how things were funded, you know, like both, like by purchasing stuff, you know, the money, how that flows back in and how state agencies are funded and how the federal government manages this. And like, if you don't research it, like, you would have no idea. And it would, it would be very easy to look at the whole system and go, well, this kind of sucks, you know, because there's a lot of nuance in it. And without understanding, like, well, you buy this and a portion of that goes to this and then it gets funneled into this and the royalties from this get funneled into this and then that goes back into the ground here. But without understanding those pathways and be like, well, they're not doing enough for me here in Montana, they're not doing enough for me in South Dakota. They're not, you know, and it, it would, it would be easy to get discouraged. But I think these films offer so much insight into how all this like, works together that I think if people had a better understanding the entire system, we could be more proactive when it comes to like making decisions based on Habitat and animals and herds and auction tags and raffle tags and, you know, all of that kind of stuff. So it's. Yeah, it's a, It's a very cool collection of. Of films. And then you got one more.
- [64:11]
Unnamed Guest 1
The last. Yeah, last one, which you helped film a big portion of, was selective. And that film came at an important time. I didn't know it when we first started creating it, but based on what's gone on in Colorado with them trying to get trophy hunting put into the, you know, the law, the way it's.
- [64:31]
Jason Matzinger
Written, the language and law.
- [64:32]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yep.
- [64:34]
Unnamed Guest 1
Defining trophy hunting, it was super important. And I just always thought it was a shame that any hunter or hunting group would like, shy away from it, because when you once again understand the very beginnings of it, why trophy hunting was created, what it's done for wildlife management, the proof is in the most, you know, highly documented book. Boone and Crockett, you know, record books, and Pope and Young. I mean, that is the only solid documentation that literally proves on paper that the wildlife North American wildlife model is working.
- [65:15]
Jason Matzinger
Right.
- [65:16]
Unnamed Guest 1
You know, yeah. It shows that animals have been getting stronger and bigger through the documentation of time. There's more record book animals entered every seven years now, generally speaking, across the board, than there ever has been. And so to me, it's like, why are we ashamed of trophy hunting? It is literally the most eloquent form of wildlife conservation ever devised. Taking the old, the mature, leaving the young, breeders. You know, people think of trophy hunting, they think of it as just a guy wanting to brag and put his name in the book. But that's, that's not what it is. There are people that take it and make it something it's not. You know, there's bad apples in every.
- [66:03]
Jason Matzinger
Well, it was just, you know, the, the term trophy hunting hunting became weaponized by non hunting groups. And there's, like you said, there's bad apples in every industry. Doesn't matter across the board. And there are people that are just going out there to try to shoot a big animal, like that's their goal because they want to brag to their buddies or they want to have the photo or they want to have, you know, the tax derby on the wall. But like you said, like, it's. It was kind of taking back that term and helping people understand that it is. Trophy hunting is simply the act of, like, it's the evolution of individual hunters really. It's like when you start out, you like, if you, if you're just starting to hunt a lot of times you're going to shoot. Let's. Let's say it's deer hunting, for instance. You're going to shoot the first deer, and then you might do that for two, three years. And then you realize, okay, like, this has been really cool. It feeds my family. I get to gift some of this sausage to my friends. I've got a cool hunting story to tell. I had these shared experiences with people that were with me. But then you start to go, okay, like, I've done that part of the puzzle. Like, let's. Let's change those. Let's shift. Okay, I'm gonna. Like, this year, my goal is to shoot something that's more rare and challenge myself to take one that's older, more mature, and so that the younger ones can continue to grow and, you know, continue to, like, replenish the herd. It's like, you know, it's a. It's a renewable resource, if you will. And if we manage it well, that resource will always be there. And so trophy hunting is simply the evolution of hunting as an individual. Getting to the point where you're like, well, what really excites me is knowing that this deer has been walking around being a deer for six years. He's old, he's mature, he's bred, you know, dozens of does. He has fostered dozens of offspring and has turned the herd that was, you know, a hundred deer in this area to now there's 350 deer in this area. You know, you know, whatever the. Whatever the math is, depending on lots of factors. But then going and shooting that old buck or old elk or whatever it is, that's probably beyond its breeding prime like that, that is trophy hunting. It was just change it. This shifting the dynamic and how people frame that in their minds. Exactly. Away from this weaponized term, which was wrong in the first place.
- [68:31]
Unnamed Guest 1
Yeah. So I kind of thought, you know, the term selective was more properly expressing what exactly we are doing when we're out there. Because to me, trophy hunting or selective hunting, like killing an old male when it's right. When he's done breeding and he's keeping the young breeders away, he's just actually hurting the herd now more than he's helping. Taking that male is as important as taking a dry cow elk in an area where there's 200 too many cow elk in the area for healthy habitat, for healthy genetics, for, you know, creating the biggest bulls, the strongest cows, all of that.
- [69:13]
Jason Matzinger
So helping the carrying capacity of the landscape.
- [69:15]
Unnamed Guest 1
Exactly. So to me, trophy hunting, which I would rather call selective Hunting brings all that together. Whether you're shooting a dry cow, a dry white tail doe on the river where there's 400 of them coming into a center pivot, or shooting that old 12 year old just gnarly warrior of a ram. Those are the exact same thing in selective hunting. And I think that's what's gotten lost in the term trophy.
- [69:42]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [69:42]
Unnamed Guest 1
But so that's the kind of the story behind the last film that I've done, which is five now in the series with Selective is just the importance of trophy hunting and why it's still very important to practice that today.
- [69:58]
Jason Matzinger
So you have a vision for number six.
- [70:01]
Unnamed Guest 1
You know, at this point I'm just waiting for it to come to me. You know, I've had ideas, but I feel like they're just because I feel like I need to do something, not because I'm like, oh, this needs to happen.
- [70:13]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [70:13]
Unnamed Guest 1
And every other film has come to me like, oh, this needs to happen. This is important. I want to tell this story. And usually they're stories that like, they're tough stories to tell. Their stories that for the most part nobody else really wants to tackle. I mean, I loved taking trophy hunting on, like head on.
- [70:31]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yep.
- [70:32]
Unnamed Guest 1
And I think the story that was told is, is great. And to your point, I don't know what the next one is yet, but I am proud of the fact that these films have been used or now on college campuses. They're used in hunter education programs across the country. They're used in high schools. I have lots of college kids reach out to me that use them for presentations for like their, I don't even.
- [71:02]
Jason Matzinger
Know, like their sources.
- [71:02]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah, yeah.
- [71:04]
Unnamed Guest 1
And Project Landlocked gets used a lot. Selective is being used now. I actually have a professor at UC Berkeley that would like to get selective put down in their curriculum down there. So we're working through the Sheep foundation right now to try to get selective put in UC Berkeley, which would be amazing. Amazing.
- [71:25]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [71:28]
Unnamed Guest 1
So, yeah, I. What I love about these films is they're timeless. They're going to be messages that are going to be important in my opinion, 100 years down the road if we're still fighting this good fight, you know.
- [71:39]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [71:40]
Unnamed Guest 1
Which I don't know who else is going to step up and take care of these animals. And so, yeah, the next one. I do have a dream of kind of like creating this film that ties it all together.
- [71:56]
Jason Matzinger
Sure.
- [71:57]
Unnamed Guest 1
You know, the crescendo.
- [71:58]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [71:59]
Unnamed Guest 1
The, the land, the hunting is conservation, the auction tags, the, the corner, all of it blend into one film with whitetail and elk and turkeys and all of it. You know, like, we see the world around us create a film that way. Like how it all interconnects, but I don't know. I don't know what that is yet. And the other one I've thought about, which surprisingly hasn't been done, and I think it would be a fun one to do. Would be really. And the only reason I haven't is there's no scare, there's no need. Like, there's. There's nothing they need.
- [72:37]
Jason Matzinger
Right.
- [72:37]
Unnamed Guest 1
Is whitetail.
- [72:38]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [72:39]
Unnamed Guest 1
Like, I would love to make a full length film on whitetail deer across the country. Like Canada whitetails and. Yeah, Montana whitetails and whitetails in Texas and Florida and you know, just kind of beautiful scenes from all over whitetail country and just tell this story of about really how they've been the fabric of North America. Like they. From the Pilgrims to the depression to what most people hunt today. Like, the importance of the white tail deer in America is like uncalculable. For sure.
- [73:14]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [73:15]
Jason Matzinger
I mean, it's the sheer numbers of them. Like. And like you said, like, it's definitely the most pursued game, like for big game hunting. But yeah, right now they're flourishing so well that it's.
- [73:28]
Unnamed Guest 1
Yeah, it's hard.
- [73:28]
Unnamed Guest 2
Yeah.
- [73:29]
Jason Matzinger
There's no, like, you're not gonna have to convince people that, you know, we need to do a bunch.
- [73:32]
Unnamed Guest 1
Right.
- [73:33]
Jason Matzinger
There's some things that are kind of like on the periphery, CWD and blue tongue or different diseases and stuff, but they're a very resilient creature. So. But yeah, like, I mean, I, I personally, I love to whitetail hunt, so I would love to watch that film. I'd love to, you know, generate some footage for that film. But yeah, that's. That's cool. Well, I think that's a good place to kind of wrap this up as far as like, just thank you for taking us through your career and like all the films and all the stuff like that I have always looked up to. So why don't you tell people where they can find all of your stuff? We'll put it in the show notes as well and you know, all the links to everything. But yeah, tell people where they can find you and follow along.
- [74:14]
Unnamed Guest 1
So my Instagram is Jason Matzinger official as well as my Facebook. That's kind of where you'll catch the. More in the moment what we're doing Currently type stuff through stories and posts. The original television shows start airing June 30th at 9:30pm on the Sportsman's Channel. Season 16 we kick off with double archery elk hunt that you can find every Monday night starting June 30th on Sportsman's at 9:30pm Eastern Time, 7:30 Mountain Time. Beyond that, you can find every one of my films on YouTube, whether it be on the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundations page, Wild Sheep's page, as well as my Outdoor tv the app you can stream anywhere, just about anywhere. I've tried really hard to get something of mine everywhere because I realize people consume it so many different ways. So whether it's Amazon, Roku, Apple TV, YouTube, My Outdoor TV, Sportsman's Channel Canada, you can find us.
- [75:27]
Jason Matzinger
Awesome. Awesome. Well Jason, thanks for joining me on the podcast and appreciate you helping me kick off this new endeavor, Legends of the Wild podcast. And we got a lot of cool people coming this year and I'm just pumped that you got to be one of the first run of this season.
- [75:44]
Unnamed Guest 1
It means a lot to me for sure. I'm happy to see what you're doing and proud to be one of your guests.
- [75:50]
Jason Matzinger
Absolutely. Well we'll sign off there. Thanks again for joining and we'll follow back.
- [75:56]
Unnamed Guest 1
We'll get you back on that sounds good.
- [76:01]
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