Podcast Summary: Les Clés (RTBF)

Episode: 1 an d'Arizona : Bart De Wever est-il devenu Belgicain ? (5/5)

Date: February 6, 2026
Duration: ~27 minutes
Main Guests: Karl Verhoeven (Rédacteur en chef, De Standaard), Baptiste Tupin (journaliste politique, RTBF), Commentators

Overview of the Episode

This episode reflects on Bart De Wever’s first year as Belgian Prime Minister, exploring whether the long-time Flemish nationalist and leader of the N-VA has truly "become Belgicain"—more invested in Belgium as a whole—or if his premiership is simply another phase in his ultimate project for Flemish independence. Through in-depth discussions, interviews, and analysis, the episode scrutinizes De Wever’s political evolution, current standing, shifting alliances, and his impact on both Flemish and Francophone audiences.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bart De Wever’s Political Shift: From Separatist to Statesman?

• Initial Attitudes (00:00–05:00):

  • Bart De Wever is recalled as a fierce advocate of Flemish independence—at times overtly provocative, infamous for stunts like delivering truckloads of "symbolic" banknotes to showcase wealth transfers from Flanders to Wallonia.
  • His recent actions as Prime Minister, including taking his oath to the King and the Belgian people, demonstrate an apparent shift toward federal responsibility.
  • Quote: "La Flandre est un instrument… si on est capable de servir son peuple au niveau fédéral, il faut le faire." – Bart De Wever (06:25)

• Reason for Change (05:50–06:35):

  • De Wever explains the government formation post-2024 elections created a situation where real economic reform at the federal level became possible. He invokes Bismarck: "la politique c'est l'art du possible et non du souhaitable."

2. Standing Ovation Among Francophones: A Surprising Turn

• Public Reception (03:09–08:42):
  • At a major conference in Brussels (mainly attended by Francophones), De Wever receives a warm standing ovation—remarkable, given his nationalist history.
  • Karl Verhoeven observes: "C’est difficile de trouver une audience plus éloignée du nationalisme flamand que la bourgeoisie francophone à Bruxelles… Et le voilà à l’aise, comme il était chez lui." (07:42)
  • De Wever’s seriousness and candidness ("appelle un chat un chat") wins people over.

3. Evolution of Persona and Rhetoric

• Maturity and Strategic Positioning (08:42–11:09):
  • Commentators describe a notable evolution: Once seen as a ‘victim’ or outsider ("Calimero"), De Wever is now regarded as a decisive, powerful leader—often compared to former PM Jean-Luc Dehaene.
  • Verhoeven: "Il est maintenant le vainqueur… On n’a pas vu ça en Belgique depuis beaucoup d’années." (09:55–10:18)

4. Socio-Economic Alignment and Francophone Support

• Coalition Dynamics (11:09–16:13):
  • The current coalition includes majority Francophone parties, making N-VA’s and De Wever’s socio-economic policies harder for Francophones to oppose.
  • Baptiste Tupin notes: "Il y a une majorité de francophones qui soutient cette majorité fédérale. Il devient beaucoup plus difficile de critiquer les positions socio-économiques, qui sont celles de la N-VA et de Bardwever." (11:52)
  • De Wever is recognized for his adaptability: transition from combative provocateur to statesman ("la dernière mue de Bardo Wever").

5. The Vlaams Belang Factor & The N-VA Strategy

• Alliance and Party Cohesion (16:13–18:55):
  • Verhoeven describes De Wever’s strategic ambiguity over potential alliances with Vlaams Belang (far-right), which he eventually dismisses—partly to maintain party cohesion.
  • "Pour lui, c’était un très grand soulagement qu’aux élections de juin dernier, il a pu battre le Vlaams Belang." (17:35)

6. Subtle Federal Reforms Serving Flanders?

• Reform Etiology (18:55–22:38):
  • Discussion on whether De Wever quietly pushes for structures favoring Flanders through socio-economic reforms as opposed to big headlines on Flemish independence.
  • Examples: Suppression of the Senate; major reforms in unemployment benefits that disproportionately impact Wallonia and Brussels.
  • Quote: "Sur les 100 communes les plus touchées par cette réforme, 100 sont wallonnes et bruxelloises… On se rend bien compte que la Flandre sera moins touchée." – Baptiste Tupin (20:34)

7. Persistent Flemish Nationalism and Orangism

• Relationship with the Netherlands (22:38–26:39):
  • De Wever’s fascination with the Netherlands ("orangisme") and past statements: "Si je pouvais mourir en tant que néerlandais du sud, je mourrais plus heureux qu’en tant que belge." (22:38)
  • However, guests agree this is more an intellectual/historical longing than an actual political plan; there is no real interest from the Dutch side.
  • Verhoeven: "C’est l’historien Bardewever qui parle… il n’y a pas de projet politique pour reconstruire les grands Pays-Bas." (25:36)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Federal Pragmatism:
  "La Flandre est un instrument… si on est capable de servir son peuple au niveau fédéral, il faut le faire."
  — Bart De Wever, discussing the rationale of working within Belgium (06:25)
• On De Wever’s Transformation:
  "Il joue maintenant dans un niveau de… grand homme d'État. Il s’est libéré… Il est le vainqueur."
  — Karl Verhoeven (09:42)
• On Shifting Flemish Nationalism:
  "Bart de Wever est capable de réinventer son personnage très régulièrement. C’est ça la dernière mue de Bardo Wever."
  — Baptiste Tupin (13:26)
• On Socio-Economic Reforms:
  "On se rend bien compte que la Flandre sera moins touchée… c’est une forme de transfert d'argent de la Wallonie vers la Flandre."
  — Baptiste Tupin (20:34)

Important Segments with Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamps | Content | |-------------------------------------|------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Introduction & Setup | 00:00–01:16 | Overview of De Wever’s reputation and core episode questions | | De Wever’s conference speech | 01:05–03:08 | Excerpts from his speech to a Francophone audience | | Audience & analyst reactions | 03:09–06:24 | Standing ovation, analysis on shifting perceptions | | De Wever’s new position explained | 05:50–06:35 | His own justification for choosing a federal role | | Karl Verhoeven analysis | 07:15–11:09 | Insights on De Wever’s changed public persona and historic ambitions | | Baptiste Tupin on Francophone view | 11:26–13:26 | How certain Francophones came to support De Wever, and why | | Coalition & Vlaams Belang | 14:21–18:55 | Analysis of party dynamics, N-VA leadership, and the defeat of Vlaams Belang | | State reform & socio-economic focus | 18:55–22:38 | How reforms under De Wever affect the country, with data on unemployment reform impact | | Orangist fascination | 22:38–26:39 | De Wever’s views on ties with the Netherlands and Benelux, debated as historical nostalgia vs. political reality | | Final reflections | 26:39–end | Podcast wraps up with open questions on De Wever’s true ambitions and legacy |

Tone & Style

• The discussion is incisive, analytical, with a blend of irony and candidness—consistent with RTBF’s journalistic tradition.
• De Wever’s own self-deprecating humor and stoic persona are cited ("Je ne suis pas un énergumène… Montrer des émotions, ce n’est pas vraiment ma tasse de thé. Mais franchement, est-ce que vous avez vu de Gaulle éclater de rire?" [02:46])
• The episode is both informative and reflexive, often inviting the audience to "se faire leur propre opinion."

Conclusion

This episode skillfully unpacks the multiple layers of Bart De Wever’s political identity, from provocateur to pragmatic national leader. Through the prism of current reforms, coalition politics, and his evolving relationship with both Belgium and Flanders, analysts and journalists weigh the sincerity and future trajectory of De Wever’s “Belgicain” transformation. Is he a new Dehaene, a mere pragmatist in one political phase, or still an unyielding Flemish nationalist at heart? The answer, as the hosts note, remains to be seen—but listeners are left with ample context and analysis to judge for themselves.