Podcast Summary: Les Clés — Face à Trump, l'Europe condamnée à subir ? (4/4)
Host: Arnaud Ressen (RTBF)
Date: January 7, 2026
Guests: Benoît Friedman (professeur de philosophie du droit à l’ULB), Sven Biscop (professeur à l’Université de Gand, Institut Egmont)
Overview:
The episode dissects the seismic shift in transatlantic relations following Donald Trump’s recent intervention in Venezuela, openly violating international law and disregarding European interests. Host Arnaud Ressen and guests scrutinize whether Europe is now doomed to simply endure Trump’s aggressive, transactional style—one that resembles mafia tactics rather than traditional alliances. They examine the erosion of the international order, Europe’s internal divisions, and what options (if any) Europeans have to resist not only the US, but also a world order increasingly defined by brute force.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Venezuela Intervention and Macron's Response
[00:00 – 02:49]
- Trump’s “Death of International Law”: The episode opens with the assertion that Donald Trump is openly discarding international law, demonstrated by the US-led operation to capture Venezuela’s President Nicolás Maduro on January 3rd.
- Macron’s Early Reaction: Emmanuel Macron's initial statement celebrated the end of Maduro’s dictatorship but omitted any reference to international law being trampled. This omission drew sharp criticism, forcing a later correction from the French government.
- Quote:
- “Une sorte de rétropédalage, après de vives critiques en France sur la première réaction d’Emmanuel Macron.” — Arnaud Ressen [02:49]
2. Trump’s Aggressive Posture Towards Europe
[04:00 – 05:17]
- Mockery and Humiliation: Trump publicly recounts (possibly fictitious) telephone negotiations with Macron, threatening heavy tariffs and reducing the French president to a figure of ridicule.
- Quote:
- “Voilà comment, en 2026, un président américain choisit de ridiculiser son homologue et allié français…” — Arnaud Ressen [04:04]
- Mafia Analogy: Both host and guest compare Trump’s style to that of a mafia boss, imposing his will through intimidation and enforced loyalty.
3. Europe’s Limited Agency and Trump’s “Protection Racket”
[06:02 – 09:40]
- Historic Weakness: Benoît Friedman contextualizes Europe’s subservience with references to the Monroe Doctrine and historic US interventionism in Latin America.
- Quote:
- “Les Européens, depuis très longtemps, n'ont rien à dire... dans tout le continent américain.” — Benoît Friedman [08:03]
- New Forms of Blackmail: Trump’s pressure on Europe now extends beyond defense spending to economic threats (tariffs), regulatory coercion (Internet, climate), and attempts to undermine the European project itself.
4. Systemic Change: From Rule of Law to Rule of Force
[09:40 – 12:24]
- Erosion of Multilateralism: Trump’s withdrawal from 66 international organizations and the Commission de Venise (Council of Europe) signals a clear rejection of the legal and values-based transatlantic framework.
- Quote:
- “L’administration Trump a décidé de remplacer les rapports de droit par des rapports de force.” — Benoît Friedman [10:47]
5. Specific Areas of Tension: Climate, Digital Regulation, Taxation
[12:24 – 14:22]
- Climate: US withdrawal from international environmental agreements directly undermines European efforts like the carbon border adjustment tax, setting up new economic conflicts.
- Digital & Taxation: Trump pushes back against EU digital regulation and the OECD-agreed minimum tax rate, exposing European vulnerability.
- Quote:
- “L’Europe… essaie sans doute de céder sur le minimum, mais à un moment donné elle se retrouve coincée.” — Arnaud Ressen [14:22]
6. The Existential European Crisis: Internal Division and Value Crisis
[15:14 – 17:37]
- Double Division:
- Institutional: Europe divided among 27 states, decision-making paralysis exemplified by the Belgium-Hungary blockade on Ukraine aid.
- Value: Founding values (liberal democracy, social democracy) are now challenged both internally and externally.
- Quote:
- “L’Europe a d’abord un problème avec elle-même. Elle doit déterminer ce qu’elle veut être…” — Benoît Friedman [16:40]
7. What Should Europe Do? - Expert Input from Sven Biscop
[18:26 – 20:43]
- Assertiveness vs. Fear: Biscop calls the hesitant European reaction to the Venezuela intervention “dangerous,” and insists only a more assertive shared stance will protect Europe in this hostile environment.
- Quote:
- “C’est trop tard pour avoir peur... Trump dit clairement qu’il veut tuer l’Union européenne. Donc comment ça peut devenir pire ?” — Sven Biscop [20:17]
- Unified Positions Work: The joint EU statement on Greenland is cited as a rare example of effective collective defense and deterrence.
8. “It’s Too Late for Fear” — The Case for Resistance
[20:50 – 25:06]
- Learning from History: Friedman draws explicit parallels to Europe’s 1930s appeasement—warning that ceding ground to would-be authoritarians simply emboldens them.
- Quote:
- “L’idée qu’on va apaiser des dictateurs… ne fait en réalité… que les exciter davantage…” — Benoît Friedman [22:41]
- Strategic Autonomy vs. Dependence:
- Europe’s economic and security dependencies (e.g., F-35 purchases, intelligence for Ukraine) make genuine autonomy difficult but not impossible.
- The solution is principled coherence and gradual action—building consistency in all policy decisions to match declared strategic objectives.
- Moment of Truth: Ressen and Friedman agree: Europe is at an existential crossroads and must first clearly define its identity and priorities before it can defend them.
- Quote:
- “L’Europe aujourd’hui est à un moment de vérité, mais peut-être doit d’abord définir ce qu’elle veut être, quelles sont ses valeurs, quel est son cap, et puis… le défendre et être prêt à le défendre, y compris peut-être par les armes demain.” — Arnaud Ressen & Benoît Friedman [24:47–25:17]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “Donald Trump cible directement l’Europe et le divorce semble plus réel que jamais.” — Benoît Friedman [00:00]
- “On a 27 minutes pour tenter de trouver des réponses.” — Arnaud Ressen [00:49]
- “L’image du parrain de la mafia me paraît particulièrement pertinente par rapport au type de coup d’État mené par l’administration Trump au Venezuela.” — Benoît Friedman [06:02]
- “L’administration Trump a décidé de remplacer les rapports de droit par des rapports de force. Et dans cette situation… les Européens sont faibles.” — Benoît Friedman [10:47]
- “Le problème européen… est double. Il est en termes de division, il est en division double.” — Benoît Friedman [15:14]
- “Nous avons appris ça de l’histoire, et bien il faut absolument que nous acceptions de le faire, même si nous voudrions surtout qu’on nous laisse tranquillement profiter de notre position dominante en matière économique.” — Benoît Friedman [22:51]
- “Qui voulons-nous être ? Que voulons-nous faire ? Quelles sont nos priorités ?” — Benoît Friedman [25:06]
Timestamps for Key Sections
- [00:00] Trump’s disregard for international law; Venezuela intervention
- [00:57] Macron’s reaction and controversy
- [04:00] Trump mocks Macron; mafia analogy
- [06:02] Analysis of European impotence and Trump’s intentions
- [09:40] Shift from rule of law to rule of force; Trump’s withdrawal from global institutions
- [12:24] Specific fractures: climate, digital regulation, economic pressure
- [15:14] Europe’s internal divisions and identity crisis
- [18:26] Sven Biscop on Europe's lack of assertiveness and need for unified response
- [20:17] “It’s too late for fear”—Europe must stand its ground
- [22:41] Friedman on the perils of appeasement; historic analogies
- [25:06] Existential questions for Europe; concluding thoughts
Conclusion
The episode paints a stark, unvarnished picture of a Europe battered by an America the likes of which it can no longer trust, and suffering from its own internal rifts. It’s a call for the continent to first rediscover its foundational values and purpose, and then to collectively build the determination and unity to defend them—possibly with more grit, even force, than comfortable peacetime afforded. The show closes on the prospect of a deeply uncertain future, but one where Europe’s fate will be determined by its own choices and resolve.