← Let's Be Honest with Kristin Cavallari
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The following podcast is a Dear Media Production.
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This is, let's Be Honest with Kristin Cavallari, a podcast all about getting real and open on everything from sex, relationships, reality tv, wellness, family, and so much more. And just a fair warning, there will probably be some oversharing. Cause I got all the power.
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A
Yep.
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B
Emma, welcome.
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A
Thank you. Aijana. I'm so happy to be here.
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B
I am so excited you're here. And happy Pub day, because your book is out today. Start with yourself. I flew through your book. I think I read it in two, two and a half hours.
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A
Oh, my goodness.
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B
I think it's the fastest book I've ever read. And I read it on a flight from London, which I thought was very appropriate with you.
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A
Very appropriate. Thank you for that. Yeah. How timely.
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B
Right? I loved it so much as a businesswoman, but also just as a woman. You're someone who's out there speaking your mind, chasing your dreams, and I really resonate with that. I also really resonate with your leadership style.
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A
Thank you.
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B
You are transparent. You are accountable. You have this fire in you that I absolutely love and respect. And so I'm curious, how would you describe yourself as a boss? And is it the same way that your direct reports would describe you? Oof.
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A
I mean, there's a bunch of them outside. We'll have to go and ask them. Bring them back in. First of all, I'm so grateful to you for reading the book, because I feel like this book was just written for women. Right. It's just the type of thing that I wish I'd have had to read almost, like 15, 20 years ago. I honestly think that people would. I describe myself as somebody who has extremely high standards. I have extremely high standards for everyone around me and for myself, but I'm a really, like, straight shooter. Nobody's ever sitting around going, I wonder what Emma thinks. Like, you know what I think? Because I told you, like, in the moment, there is no messing around, and I'm very, very clear. And so I think that most people that work with me will. You know, she's firm but fair. There is no fucking around. Let's just be honest. But at the end of the day, I think that most people that work with me learn a lot from me, like, in a. In a lot of different ways. You know, I think that after a few years of working with me, you go, you know what? Like, that was a lot, but I really learned a lot. And she was a. She was a good girl.
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B
Right, Exactly. Which is great for people because then they can Take that for the rest of their careers?
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A
I mean, I think so, yeah, why not?
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B
How do you deliver maybe a little bit of negative feedback or some criticism? Because I know especially as a woman sometimes it's really easy to get painted as the bitch, for lack of better words. Are you mindful of that or you just let that go and you just focus on what message you need to address?
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A
Here's the thing I have learned that you critique the behavior and not the individual because I know how women are wired, right. I am a woman at the end of the day. And so much of what I talk about in this book start with yourself and is how to manage your emotions. And when you are able to make sure that your decision making isn't coming from a pace of emotion, that changes the whole thing. So I don't go into critique or feedback being emotional and I don't aim it at somebody personally. I talk about their behavior. I really show people the way. And I think I'm like constantly modeling the type of behavior that I wanna see as well. And again, I'm direct because I don't think it's helpful and useful, especially in the context of women, to like shy away from feedback. We need the feedback, we need it given to us, but we also need like to be shown the way. And so I think that the type of person I am, I'm modeling the behavior that I think is acceptable. I leave my office every day at 5 o'. Clock. Not just because I want to go home and do bed and bath and story time with my kids, but because I want to create the conditions for other people in my company to leave at 5 o'. Clock. Now let's be fair. I come back on, I'll do some emails at 8, like, do you know what I mean? That's the reality of my life. When you run companies, you have to have like, like 100% mentality and always on mentality. But I make time for the things that matter so that everyone around me can do that.
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B
I love that. What about this younger generation? Because I, I know just in my own business too, you know, the early 20 year olds, they can be a bit sensitive and I think sometimes like I'm really direct as well and same thing, you will always know how I think and feel.
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No shit, girl. Yeah, no shit. I'm like, really? Yeah.
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B
Are you really? But sometimes this younger generation, they don't respond well to that directness. What do you do in those situations? Or do you just not hire those people from the jump?
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A
Can you imagine you know what? I almost kind of feel like it's kind of unfair to label, like, just the younger generation, because I actually, you know, I'm an older millennial. I'm 43. And I think you get just as much pushback from, like, people in their 30s and their 40s. I think what I'm starting to see is that, you know, there are just certain types, and those types are not the type that I want to work with. Right. I am really honest about what it takes. Right. Like, really, really honest. And I think that if you are an ambitious person, it's going to require a little bit of discomfort. If you are career driven, it requires proximity and visibility. Because if you're not around me, and I mean, like, in office, in the room, seeing what's happening, you're not going to learn as quick, and you're not going to see how I move. And so there are certain things that I requ. Of people that work with me. And if you're not willing to do that, then perhaps you should be somewhere else, and that's fine too. Right. Because it takes different people. But we all know that, like, none of us are in a position anymore where you're, like, chained to your desk. Right. Women require a certain level of flexibility, but it also comes at a cost. And what I've done in the book is try to be really honest about, well, what's the cost? Like, what are we actually talking about here? Because to tell people that, you know, you can come in a couple of days a week and give 70% effort, and still you're gonna be a baller and be paid the most, that's just. L Like, it's not the truth. So I just don't want to sugarcoat things, and I don't want to gaslight people.
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That's such a good answer. And I see. That's what I'm saying. I love how honest and transparent you are with this stuff. Because it's true.
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It's true.
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And you talk a lot about strengths and weaknesses, and of course, we all have them. You have actually said that. I think being CEO is not all that it's cracked up to be. And you prefer being in product, in merch. That's really your strength.
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Yes.
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What are areas of weakness where you have to lean on other people?
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Oh, so many. How long you got? I think I've learned, like, my super is knowing what I'm not good at. Right. And making sure that I get people around me that are really strong at those things. I think the difficulty is Sometimes specifically for women, there is this idea that you should be all the things.
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Right.
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It's like you start a business or you go into a place and you're like, I need to know everything about everything. It's like, not so. You need to be really good and understand your strengths and your superpowers, and then you just need to hire or patch in for all of the rest. And what happens when you do that? Like, when you allow your weaknesses to be known or seen, you kind of, like, raise the level of the room. Because people who are good in those places, they'll be like, I've got that. I'm gonna do that thing for you. And so by kind of pretending and being in this game, like, you don't allow people to be good and strong around you. You keep everybody down. And no one wants to work like that. Everyone who works around me is like a baller. They want to be a boss. They want to be great. They want recognition. And I'm like, great. Have all of that patch in for where I'm not good. And I'm, like, willing to share because I actually know that none of us get anywhere alone. Right. It takes teams. It takes, like, great people. And when you find great people, you need to keep them around you. And that means, like, giving them a space and a place that they can be great.
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Yeah. And there's so much strength in admitting that you're not perfect at everything. You need help.
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Totally.
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So but give me, like, an example within the company, like, what is one area that you're like? I know that I am not good at that, so I'm really gonna lean on my CFO or whoever.
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I would say anything that's like, operations. I'm super dyslexic. And so the way that my brain works, as soon as, like, systems get really complex and a thing has to speak to a thing, to tell a widget what to do, to plug in, I'm just like, no. So anything like logistics, operations, it's just not the way I'm wired.
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You're more creative.
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I'm a creative thinker. It's like, I am a business person. Like, I have taught myself. Like, I would have said to you 10 years ago, like, I am not good with the numbers. I never say that anymore. Because to be in business, you have to be good at the numbers. You have to be able to see the patterns and how things are linking together in your business. You have to get good at that. But there's other places where you're like, that is Better outsourced. I think that finance is one of those things that everyone needs to get a grip on. And it doesn't matter if you, you know, have a corporate job, you're running a company, you're doing a startup, like, whatever it is, you have to be wired into the numbers and you have to be wired into your money.
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B
That is such great advice. I've had to learn that too. Because, I mean, I think, you know, let's say you hire a CFO and you're hiring for their expertise. That doesn't mean that as a founder, you get to just take a backseat. You always have to know what is going on.
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No way. You need to be able to ask the pertinent questions. You need to be able to say to somebody. Okay. And also, it's like, to be strategic and to be creative also requires you to have a head for the finances. You need to be able to build and articulate whatever it is that you're trying to do. And so there's no way of getting around the numbers, Right? That's just something you have to learn. And I think that I try to have this idea of myself as always in learning mode. Like, I'm always trying. Like, right now I'm obsessed with AI and I take a day, like, unhealthily,
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like, really, like, what?
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What part about it just, like, the idea that this is even possible. I started my working career before there were emails, right? And so right now I'm like, what is happening?
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But, you know, these big. Never for business.
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I use it all the time for business in every way, shape or form. Planning in, like, planning inventory, in merchandising. Anywhere where there's deb data, like, we are using it. So anywhere where there's numbers coming in, we are absolutely making decisions.
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I'm fascinated by that.
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Yeah.
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Okay. I've sort of. I'm like, almost anti AI, but I know it's like it's happening, so I kind of need to just lean into it.
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You gotta lean into it. But I do think, and I love that you say you're anti AI because there's a place to protect, right? And especially, like, I'm in products, I'm in design. You know, we do beautiful marketing. And so I think that there are places in your business where you have to say, like, this needs human hands, this needs an emotional touch. And so you've got to protect that. And then I think everything else should be AI.
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Well, you want to know, it's funny, I actually asked ChatGPT one time just to See, I was like, hey, design a collection for me. Gave it, you know, some barometers. It was horrid.
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Hence, like, horrid.
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And I was like, okay, well, thank God you can't take all the jobs out there.
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I'm okay.
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Do need humans for some things. I love that you're leaning on it, though, for certain things. It's smart business move.
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It is a smart business move. And I think whatever you're doing that you should be learning. I think people are scared of AI because they're scared of what they don't know. I think actually the superpower is to become the person in your office that does know how to use AI, that does get two hours back because they're figuring it out. You'll be even more useful to that business, even more useful to your team, your department, whatever it is. And I try, generally speaking, not to be scared of things. Right. Like, I don't enjoy the idea that I'm raising kids and have no idea what the, you know, employment environment's gonna be in 10 years that I find as scary as anyone would find. But I do think that, like, leaning in to where your fear is makes a lot of sense. It makes sense in your work life, it makes sense in your business life. And so I actually always try to find the things that freak me out the most that I'm most scared of and do them.
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B
Yeah. That's where the growth is too. Right. Also, with AI, it's like, work smarter, not harder. That's a great example of it. Okay, so you've had, obviously, multiple successful businesses, right? So I want to know, what are you doing differently as a founder, as a CEO? Because I think it's one thing to have one successful business, of course, but when you've done it multiple times, you've got the magic touch. You've got the formula. What are we doing differently that other founders and CEOs are not doing?
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That is so funny. You know, I never ever think of it like that because I always think that you're one step away from disaster. Do you?
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Yeah. Because where does that come from?
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I always, oh, that's from my childhood. Right. It has to be from my childhood, because I think I come from a place where, you know, the boom and bust cycle was really clear. It was like, oh, that guy has something. He just bought a new car. Oh, it's gone tits up, and now they have nothing. Like, it was just so prevalent where I grew up. And when you're, like, from the hood, you see it so clearly, right? Because People are so out there with, like, what they have, and then when they don't have it anymore, you're, like, hyper aware of it. I think what I have done is, like, transitioned on the way up. I took one thing that worked, and I did the same kind of thing over and over and over again and learned from all of the mistakes. And if I go back to my agency days, like, you know, I ran an agency that did celebrity partnerships. I was the broker, the kind of person that nobody wanted in the negotiation. You're not the brand, you're not the talent. You're just the one, like, in the middle trying to make something work, trying to, like, get a commission out of it. And I kind of learned from being in that very unwrap, unwanted situation of how to be indispensable. And I learned what was important. And so what I do now is really kind of focus on the things that are important. I'm really good at building a strategy. I'm really good at looking at things and having, like, an overview of them. And I can get everybody to come with me, right? So it's like, I'm that person that goes, do you know what? Like, here's what we're doing. Here's what's important. This is the way. And I want everyone to follow me and go in this direction. And when you can build momentum like that between people and between your goals, like, shit starts to happen. Like, you just. You get like, I'm always in motion. And so it's not like I feel like I have some special touch. I'm just, like, a very good organizer of people and things around my ideas.
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Well, you're a really good leader to me. That's what that is.
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I think I am a pretty good leader.
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You are. Yeah. Well. And so when you're hiring for other leadership roles, obviously it's gonna vary depending on what the role is. But when you're looking at leadership qualities like that, getting everyone to buy in on this goal, this dream, what qualities do you look for in people?
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So first thing to say is that I really. I hire for attitude over experience, because I think that I'm a person. You know, I didn't go to college. I was a high school dropout. And I think if you've got the right attitude, that you will do amazing things. I also think now, especially in the last few years, I'm hiring for a flexible and attitude over somebody who's really experienced and got a great attitude. Because what happens is when you hire, typically I'm hiring the Most senior people in the company. Right. So if you're in your, like, late 30s, 40s, 50s, I'm going to hire you to come in. You've been working at X company for however long you think you know it all, you think you've got it all down. And we're doing things in an entirely different way. We're moving, we're changing, we are adapting. AI is coming in. And so I need that, that flexibility of thought. I need you to say, yeah, I've been doing it like this for 30 years, but, oh, there's a better way, there's a new way. And so that idea of being flexible and that can be really hard for people in their workplace because you're like, I've got this down. I know how it goes. But if you have flexibility of thought that is like such a muscle that is so valuable for anyone in business, you're like, oh, my goodness. Like, they understand how to move and do things differently and see a bigger picture. And so I think those traits are really important.
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That's, that's startup mentality. Like, even if you've been around for nine years, like, you still need that grit. It's like that little bit of. Yeah, the flexibility in the grit.
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Totally.
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no.
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But the qualities that you do have, those things can't be taught, you know, that drive, that ambition, that passion. And so I'm curious, from your childhood, because, you know, you talk a lot about your childhood in your book. What qualities do you specifically attribute to your childhood that has helped you in business?
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I would say grit is the big thing. Right. I was kind of raised in a way where no one was coming to help you.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Like, you just had to help yourself. And so, for me, I literally believed, Kristin, that I would need to work my way out of where I was. You know, it's like I had a paper route. I worked in a deli. I sold fireworks. I sold, you know, stolen shirts off the back of a lorry. Like, it's like I did everything that I could to get out of where I was. I also, like, developed a really thick skin because there was just a lot happening around me, and no one was, like, careful with my feelings when I was little. You know, how we're so precious. I'm precious with the words I use around my kids. No one was doing that for me when I was little. So you get a thick skin. Like, you learn to take a lot of knockbacks. And in the beginning of my career, I think that I just got told no so much that I started, like, not even to hear it. So I definitely think somewhere between kind of like, grit, the resilience, just the fact that, you know, it's like, I am a hard worker. I'm gonna outwork anyone in the room, and I'm not really, you know, I've never been too good for anything. You know, it's like, I'll pack a box, I'll open a box. Like, when my books came in, they weren't going on. I was like, I'm just, you know, I'm gonna do it, you know? And my team were like, it's a really good outfit in a really good place. It's time for an Instagram. And I was like, but I'm actually, you need to let people know in the Caption, I'm actually unpacking these outfits
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B
wasn't just for Instagram.
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A
This wasn't like, oh, she's with, like, a tape and a roll. I was like, I need shit done quickly. But, you know, I do think that there's something in that, that you are just. I am always willing to kind of get off my peg. And you know what was so crazy? I will tell you. So far, on my press tour, I have met three women journalists who used to work for me. No way. Oh, yeah. So the way you treat people, the way you come into a room, the way you look after people, the way you fire them, all of it, you better be careful, because it's all gonna come back around. And so, you know, when I walk into places and I'm like, oh, my goodness, how are you? You know, it's like that kind of reputational value, you either have it or you don't, that's totally within your control. And so when I talk about this idea of what it means to start with yourself, it's like, there's so much that we're not in control of. And we know that as women, right? We know that there are systems and the patriarchy and all of these things that keep us small. But I don't think you should be one of those things. I think that we have to keep ourselves big. We have to, like, imagine all of the things that we can do and that we're allowed to do. Because no one's coming to kind of knock on your door and go, here you go, babe. Look at this. That's just happened for you. It's like, you have to do it.
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B
Ah. That's why you're so inspiring. I mean, honestly, I could just listen to you talk like that for hours. Let's go out there and do all the things. That's so great. What would you say is the difference between being good and being great?
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It's your level of input, right? Like, how much do you care? And I always think about this idea of, like, being excellent. And I am obsessed with it. Like, I was obsessed when I, you know, used to work in the deli and make, like, what I thought was, like, the most amazing sandwich. People would wait for me because they'd be like, I want that girl to make my sandwich. I thought that was major back then. But I kind of take that point of view to everything, right? It's like, if I'm gonna do something and I really wanna talk about the things I don't do. Cause I don't do A lot. And I never want people to feel, like, guilty. It's like, I outsource a lot of things, but the stuff that I do, I put everything in. I will. You know, when we started Good American, I was like, oh, my God, I am going to obsess. The fabric and the stitching and the belt loops and the construction and the silhouette and the fits and the finishing and the wash. Like, I was like a crazy person. And I'm kind of like that about everything. Because this idea of, like, everything being 1% better.
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Yeah.
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People don't really know that, but they feel it. Like, they. They come into a room, they see you, and they're like, oh, my God. Like, you just know that care has been taken. And so excellence is something that you can practice. You can practice it every single day. How am I gonna show up in this room today? How am I gonna behave in this meeting? How am I gonna treat the person that sits next to me? And you know what? It's noticed. Like, the person that you don't even realize is watching notices excellence. And that's how you get promoted. That's how you get opportunities. That's how people see you, and they're like, oh, my God, like, girl, that woman. Like, you know, and so I think when you do that and you behave like that, it kind of comes back to you in ways that you just can't even imagine.
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B
I agree. I was raised with that. If you're gonna do something, give it 110%. Otherwise, don't do it at all.
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Just don't do it.
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B
Yeah, just don't do it. That's great advice. Is there anything that you look for when hiring that is an indicator not to hire someone?
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Yes.
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B
Yeah.
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I don't. Like, I could, like, do a whole episode just on this part, which makes me sound like such a bitch. There's so many things that I don't like. Right, let's list them all. Let's go down the list. I don't like people. So I think that when you come into an interview situation, you should probably try to orientate it around your achievements, what you can do, and your, like, potential working relationship with this company. Right. You talk about the company. I think people that come in with too much about themselves, what they need, you know, Me, me, me, me, me. How is, like, this vacation policy? Is the work life balance going to be, you know that? I love that one.
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Oh, I know. We're going to talk about it.
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It's all those things that I think, you know, make you look Junior, they make you look small. And so I think that what you need to do is, like, raise the bar of the conversation and talk about the company, talk about the business, talk about your observations. Right. Like, raise the level of, like, how
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B
you permit to be part of the company.
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Yes. Starting. Don't go in and talk about yourself and have specificity. Meaning, like, if you're at your job and you, you know, you're in sales and you sold this, that was, you know, based. Looking at last year's figures was up. Like, tell me the percentages. Tell me what you did. Don't worry about being braggadocious because again, like, nobody is coming to, like, talk about your achievements. So I think, like, having specificity and numbers and knowing what you're talking about is really, really important.
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B
Okay. I love that. And I know that you've said at the end when you say, you know, do you have any questions for me? Always have a question, have a question, have a question, have a question. Yeah.
- [26:54]
A
Because that just signals intelligence.
- [26:56]
B
Right.
- [26:56]
A
You know what I mean?
- [26:57]
B
That you care and you put some thought into that.
- [26:59]
A
Covered it all. Like, covered it all. I'm good. Make it up. Because curiosity, like, is the thing. Right. So even if you don't, like, they've covered everything that you expected, just asking something random, something about, like, you know, who did the architecture of this building. I don't know, like, something. Right.
- [27:16]
B
Anything but work, life, balance.
- [27:18]
A
Anything.
- [27:19]
B
Okay, well, we have to talk about it, so. And you talk a lot about it in your book, which I think is going to be really helpful for a lot of women. But you went on another podcast and you said, hold on, I have it. You said, work, life, balance is your problem. That's yours to figure out. I completely understood this and I appreciated it as a woman and as a business owner that you were saying it. But you did get a lot of flack for it.
- [27:41]
A
I did.
- [27:41]
B
I actually don't feel like you have to defend it unless you want to, but I'm more curious how you handle negativity like that. Negative press. Does it bother you?
- [27:51]
A
Can I tell you? And you might just go like, this girl's a psychopath. You know, I never experienced it as negativity. I got all of that clap back. First of all, Kristin, I was on the news for the first time ever without me having been there. So I was like, well, this is a value. I was like, look at that. I'm over there on the news and I didn't even have to go to New York. God, I. I love That I didn't even understand it. Obviously, subsequently, I understood that people. It kind of hit people in a place that was like, oh, what is she saying? Like, we like Emma. She's a nice girl. She's supposed to have our back. And actually, I do have people's back. Because I want you to understand that that isn't the question. The focus should actually be on not how am I going to, like, balance these things. It's like, what is your overall ambition and what is the way that you're going to get there? Because striving for this balance, a, you're never going to get it. There is not some magical balance you have to have. And I talk about this so much. You need to have a vision for yourself, right? And not vision boards, not manifestation. You need to be like, this is how I want to live. I want to live in Nashville on 135 acres. I want my kids to breathe the fresh air, and I want to run a business at my own pace. And I want to do it in the way that I feel is good. Right? You have an idea of the type of life that you want to live, and then you do all the things to get there. So striving for this mythical balance, which, by the way, none of us have. None of us has the ability as employers to give. Like, that stuff is on you. And the reason I said that is because I wanted people to take a step back and go, oh, it's up to me. Like, I have to decide the way that I want to live and what's going to work for me and be in the right place for that lifestyle. So that's actually what I was saying. But I'm gonna even double down on it here and go, not only is work life balance not the point, it's actually career suicide, right? Completely. It's killing life, and it's career suicide. Because guess what? I met all of my best friends at work. I met my husband at work. I had some of the best nights of my whole life after work. And now it's like, you think you're gonna find the guy of your dreams while you're sitting in your bedroom on a zoom call in a bad outfit. You will not.
- [30:02]
B
I can tell you. You're not. You will not. You will not.
- [30:05]
A
So I just like. And I say it in that jokey way. Cause I'm like, the point of life is for us to be together. The point of work and business is actually it's your interaction point in the world. And if you are taking that part of your life away. You're actually like taking down your chances of all of these great things and all of this great interaction from happening. So all I'm saying is don't rely on the way that we're coming to work right now, maybe like a couple of days a week on a zoom call as being the thing that is gonna propel you, because it probably won't. And I think that having like a serious conversation with yourself is much more valuable. It's much more the thing that we should all be doing and really thinking about, like, how do I wanna live what's important to me?
- [30:49]
B
Right. Well, and with the work life balance thing, I mean, I know I get asked that question all the time and I'm not even doing a fifth of what you are doing. And I love that you talk so much about it in your book and you're very honest about the fact that you can't be at the top of your career and make dinner every night and be at every sporting event and have the best body. And so you can't, you can't be all the things. There's not enough time in the day. So I want to know, just for you, how do you decide in a week? Let's say what gets your time, your attention? And does it ever shift from week to week or month to month?
- [31:22]
A
It shifts all the time, but actually like not in the ways that you would imagine because I am so intentional and. Cause I do have a very clear vision. It's like I love getting my kids up in the morning, you know, like when they're all sleepy. It's like that's like a non negotiable for me. But of course I travel. And so there are some weeks where I'm not getting them up in the morning, but in like a regular week, it's like I have the stuff that I really like doing. I really like us to sit at a dinner table all together and I will make sure I'm home for that. Even if I'm going out that night and I'm gonna have like a second dinner. I sit down and I eat with my kids and we chat about the day and we talk shit and we make jokes and like we do the thing that is like a non negotiable to. But I do it based on my idea of what is perfect. Not based on something I saw on Instagram, not based on like some guilt that I picked up from some other lady at the school. It's like that's why I talk about vision. It's for your work and for your life. Because I know what type of mom I want to be. So I set my expectations, I have my goals, and I say no to everything else.
- [32:22]
B
I love that.
- [32:23]
A
Like, literally, like, no. So it's like, I don't do a lot of stuff because I've decided that these things are the things that are important.
- [32:30]
B
Learning to say no is one of the best things you can do as a woman.
- [32:35]
A
One million percent. You cannot be a people pleaser and a leader at the same time. And so we have to decide, like, is that actually pleasing me? Because, you know, like, we've all been there in places where you're like, oh my God, I said yes to that thing. I didn't even want to go.
- [32:49]
B
I know it.
- [32:49]
A
Like, do you know what I mean? It's like, why did you do that?
- [32:51]
B
The worst feeling in the world. The worst.
- [32:53]
A
So just say no. Because actually people really respect. They're like, oh, she knows what she wants to do. Like, she doesn't suffer full. She didn't waste time. I prefer that.
- [33:02]
B
Yeah. And you gotta learn how to take care of yourself as a business owner, as a mom, as all of the things.
- [33:07]
A
Yes.
- [33:07]
B
Well. And with everything going on, I would imagine, and probably at this point, you know how to navigate when you're starting to feel like you're heading toward. Towards burnout.
- [33:16]
A
Yes.
- [33:17]
B
So what do you do when you start feeling that way? How do you pull back? What are you doing to relax? Find some me time. And what does your me time look like?
- [33:24]
A
Like, oh, I love some me time. Let me tell you, I am the start with yourself girl. So I'm right at the top of my own. It's like, I'm there, you know what I do. So there's two parts. Like, one, in like a professional kind of environment. When I feel like I am at my kind of breaking point, I look around me, I'm like, who is here to help? Why am I doing so much? And it's always because I have, like, inhale too much, I've taken too much on. So I just literally start going, you can do that, you can do that. And getting to that point where you are willing to delegate and happy with the end result. And I mean that in, like, in my work and in my life, I always talk about this thing where my friend was like, can you said to her husband, can you make the kids lunch? She then proceeded to like, literally talk him through the sandwich making.
- [34:13]
B
Just do it yourself at that point,
- [34:14]
A
what are you doing? You gotta kinda be happy with like the 75% good sandwich. Do you know what I mean? Like the bad husband sandwich. Your kid's not looking quite how they should when they leave to school. Cause I'm like, let them get themselves ready. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, outsource some of this stuff.
- [34:27]
B
It's not all gonna be perfect.
- [34:28]
A
It's all gonna be perfect. So come to terms with that. So the first thing I do is I look around and I'm like, what can I not do? What can I outsource to other people? And then what just doesn't need to be done. Cause sometimes I am like, oh my goodness. Like, you know, I like to have my hair dyed all the time. Cause I'm going gray. I'm just gonna have to do it a week later. Like right now it's like, this is the. I don't have my nails done.
- [34:48]
B
The nails done.
- [34:49]
A
Because I've just been so busy that I'm just like, you know what? Let them breathe. Take them gels off for a second. Cause it's like one less thing. So I'm like, what can just give. Those are things that can give. But I am militant about looking after myself. It's like a meeting. It's like, I have a massage every single Tuesday night because I suffer with headaches and I work out a lot and I need to do the recovery because my trainer's like, you can't do all the workout about doing the recovery. So I do that.
- [35:12]
B
I get that.
- [35:12]
A
And it's like, I do actual.
- [35:13]
B
It's part of the wellness routine, a massage. I really do believe that.
- [35:16]
A
You know what? And it's really true. And it's like that moment where it's like, I know my kids are in bed. I can do it. I can chill out. And I like to get up early. I like to get up early for the workout.
- [35:26]
B
What time do you get up?
- [35:27]
A
I'm up at 5, but I wake up naturally at 4:45. Do you like with no alarm? I'm like, up.
- [35:33]
B
What time are you going to bed at night?
- [35:35]
A
10:30. I'm like, I try to be in my bed at 10.
- [35:40]
B
Okay.
- [35:40]
A
But you know, it's like, are you scrolling? Are you never. My phone doesn't even come in.
- [35:46]
B
Into the bedroom.
- [35:46]
A
No, doesn't come into the bed. Because I have a husband. And you know the Swedish husband, he's like, he wants a chat and connect.
- [35:51]
B
Oh, I love that.
- [35:52]
A
You know, So I do that.
- [35:52]
B
That's important too, apparently.
- [35:54]
A
So, babe, you're like, I can do without. I love it. I'm like, oh, I'm trying to stay in this marriage.
- [36:00]
B
Yes. Yes.
- [36:00]
A
What do you do?
- [36:00]
B
Oh, right, yeah.
- [36:01]
A
Okay, let's do that.
- [36:02]
B
Locked in.
- [36:03]
A
Locked in. I love it. No, but that's the thing.
- [36:06]
B
I went through a phase in my life too, where I was actually waking up at 5am to work out because it was the only time I couldn't. You just have to figure out what's important to you. And that's important to you.
- [36:15]
A
Exactly. And it is to me.
- [36:16]
B
And you meditate a lot too, right? I do.
- [36:18]
A
That is like my new thing. It's been about maybe two years now. I did like a course in transcendental meditation.
- [36:24]
B
So cool.
- [36:25]
A
Which, like, means I came to LA and I fully drank the Kool Aid. All my English friends are like, sure you did, babe. Sure you did. The woman who came to teach me, she looked like she was out of central casting. She came in like swathes of cream cashmere and sat in my living room and I was like, this is it. I want to be you. So I did learn that. And I don't do the 20. Like you're supposed to do 20 minutes twice a day.
- [36:46]
B
I never. That's a lot.
- [36:48]
A
Yeah. Is that. That is not a factor in my life, but I would say at least three or four times a week I'm doing a 20 minute or a 15, 20 minute. And that has been a game changer because I thought meditation was to, like, quiet your mind. I think it actually gives you energy.
- [37:03]
B
I agree with you.
- [37:03]
A
I've got energy.
- [37:04]
B
Yeah. And I think learning how to control your mind too, in a way. Yeah. Are you a morning meditator or a nighttime morning?
- [37:11]
A
Right. When you unravel by that, like, you know, it's like I have to do things the minute I wake up. So I meditate before I work out.
- [37:19]
B
Okay. I love it. Yeah. And then what time do you get to the office? You work out and you're on kid routine in the morning?
- [37:24]
A
Absolutely. I leave the house between 8 and 8:30, depending on the day. And it's. Sometimes I tend to only do two school runs, so I have four kids.
- [37:31]
B
Okay.
- [37:32]
A
I do two school runs a week for the bigs and then for the littles and then the bigs and the littles. The bigs and the littles. Now I have, you know, four kids and three schools, so it's a real pain in the butt.
- [37:41]
B
That's a lot.
- [37:42]
A
That'll change in two years, so that's okay. But my morning is nuts. Like it really is because I try to get everyone at the breakfast table for at 7:30 for 20 minutes of like hair brushing. Some are eating, some are chatting, I'm signing, homework thing. It's chaos. But to me it's like it's still our breakfast moment, you know. And then everybody starts kind of leaving and 8 or 8:30 I'm out the door. So I'm in the office at either 8:30 or 9.
- [38:08]
B
Until 5?
- [38:09]
A
Yes, until 5.
- [38:10]
B
You are putting in a full day five days a week?
- [38:12]
A
Every single day?
- [38:12]
B
Yeah. Okay, great.
- [38:13]
A
Every single day.
- [38:18]
B
All right, let's talk about Kahlua. I'm pretty sure everybody knows about the brand Kahlua. They've been around forever. They are the brand famous for their great tasting espresso martinis. And now they've developed something new. Featuring one of Dunkin's best selling flavor swirls, Kahlua Duncan Caramel Swirl blends luscious caramel and coffee flavor into one easy to enjoy sip. This ready to pour liqueur is creamy, irresistibly smooth and perfectly sippable. To craft a creamy, dreamy drink at home, you can serve Kahlua Dunkin Caramel Swirl Cream Liqueur chilled or over ice. Or if you want to level it up, you can pair it with the Dunkin Munchkins Donut Hole treat. You could drizzle caramel on your drink. You could add a toasted marshmallow. I mean, you could do you whatever your little heart desires, but it is so good. You must be 21 or older to purchase. Please drink responsibly. For additional information, visit kahlua.com and you can follow Kahlua on Instagram. 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I think it's a universal thing that we all want to be clean down there and Good Wipes is here for that. They come in a ton of of different scents, but a new one that they have, which is a really fun collab, is the new Good Wipes and Ollipop Peaches and Cream Collab. So Good Wipes and Ollipop have teamed up to launch a Walmart exclusive Booty Wipe. It's the Gut and Butt collab that just makes sense. Your very own Peachy Clean dream team. Good Wipes are also carefully crafted for sensitive skin. They are dermatologist tested and they feel so much better than other wipes wipes and they are actually flushable because they're made with plant based fibers so they break down easily. I think that's really important to note. So grab the new peaches and cream or any other Good Wipes item at Walmart so you can upgrade your restroom routine and see how it feels to actually be clean. Buy any two packs of Good Wipes at Walmart or walmart.com text them your receipt and get reimbursed almost immediately for one of them them. For more details, head to good wipes.com honest again that is goodwipes.com honest to snag a free pack of Good wipes from Walmart. Your peach will thank you. If you have a day, and this probably doesn't happen often, but let's say you have a day and you don't have to do anything. So you've got the whole day. What are you doing from the time you wake up until the time you go to bed?
- [43:32]
A
Oh, I love, I love this question. All right, so if I'm. It would have to be a weekend. Cause I can't even fathom the idea of like not having something to do on a weekday. They would like my team would just come and pick me up from wherever I'm wandering down Rodeo thinking I can go shopping. They'd be like, get in the car. Like there's stuff to do. So on the weekend. So I would get up and make breakfast. You know, I love to cook. It's my favorite thing in the world.
- [43:55]
B
Oh, I love that.
- [43:55]
A
And I don't cook nearly as much as I would like to. So I cook. I would do breakfast for the kids. I'd get a workout in. I would go like, you know, to some like either like a farmer's market or go to the bookshop. I like to go and buy flowers for the house. And then I'm quite a good like schlommacher. Like do you know like I just like would.
- [44:15]
B
Schlumaker. Yeah. What does that mean?
- [44:17]
A
She just schlomm. Like just, just like go down. Do you know that's what I would do. I'd get a book, I'd get a bunch of magazines. Oh, do you know what I love? I love a magazine.
- [44:27]
B
Style fashion magazine.
- [44:28]
A
Oh my God. Yeah. Like. Oh, you know, like the big ones. I'd get like a Harper's Apple magazine and I would get like a good, you know, like meaty fashion bible. Yeah. And I would just like pour through the magazines, chat it up to My husband, you know, I've been with my husband for 17 years and he always has something to talk to me about.
- [44:44]
B
I love that.
- [44:45]
A
Literally, he has the most abstract thoughts and ideas. So I just chat away to Jens.
- [44:50]
B
Is that the secret to your successful marriage? Just still chatting it up?
- [44:55]
A
Yeah. I mean, at that. And that I still fancy him because I think if I didn't, I'd be like, oh, you'd be annoyed. I'd be like, what happened to you? Meanwhile, I'm up at 5am like, sort out.
- [45:07]
B
Let's go, buddy.
- [45:08]
A
Come on. No, I still really fancy him. And he's a great, you know, he's like a great person. Like a really. I chose a very good husband.
- [45:16]
B
I love that. Well, yeah, that's half the battle is choosing a good one.
- [45:19]
A
Listen, I've chose wrong in the past. I'm not gonna lie.
- [45:22]
B
We all have. It wasn't the first.
- [45:25]
A
First person I went out with.
- [45:27]
B
We've all been there. All right, I want to jump back into the business stuff. So you've been a part of a few different celebrity brands.
- [45:34]
A
I have indeed.
- [45:35]
B
And so I want to know what you guys have done differently compared to other celebrity brands or what you see celebrity brands specifically do right. And what they do wrong.
- [45:44]
A
So I think it's pretty easy when I think about the catalyst to starting a business, like the reason that you start it. It can never be about the fame. It has to be because there is something that you want to do, like a unique point of view, a problem that you're solving, an aesthetic that you have. And what we've done uniquely well in these businesses is really focus on that. Like, what was the starting point? And then we made excellent product to match it. And so the talent piece is always the accelerator and no one's taken away from that. Like, I'm very aware that that is an enormous piece of it, but it doesn'. It's not something that you can count on day in and day out. Whereas excellent products and pleasing your customers always works, like, every single time. Right. So I think that, again, I talk about this so much in the book, like, what it actually takes to build a brand and to have longevity and to, you know, really do something that is beyond the expectations that anybody had in the beginning. And it always comes down to the unsexy stuff. Like, it isn't the marketing, it isn't the influencer event, it isn't the boxes that you sent out. Right. It's like. It's actually like the speed at which you get stuff to customers. It's like delighting your customers every single time. The relationship between cost and value, like, it's all of those things. And so I think that those are the things that often can, like, take you off track when there's too much focus on the wrong thing in the beginning and not having a distinct point of view and a reason for being. And then, like, the product never lives
- [47:16]
B
up to it and maybe, like, a little bit of a disconnect. Like, I think with celebrity brands, you have to live and breathe your brand. You have to be your brand.
- [47:25]
A
You know this better than anyone. It's like, when it's believable. When I'm like, yes, you do. You are. That's you. Like, then. And then the product is amazing. Like, then you can be such an accelerator for what you do. But if there. If it doesn't make sense, like, we ain't buying it.
- [47:39]
B
I'm like, yeah, exactly. One thing I learned in your book, which I loved, and I. After I read it, I went into my team on Monday and I said, you guys, listen to what I read in Emma's book. But. But I was always under the impression that we are a marketing company. And you said, no, it's all about the product. And so I thought that was fascinating. And I am fully bought in, and it fully makes sense to me now.
- [48:01]
A
And so you are especially.
- [48:02]
B
Well, right.
- [48:03]
A
I look at what you do, and I'm like, you are a lifestyle. Like, you are a product business with beautiful product. That makes sense for you to be behind. Well, right.
- [48:12]
B
And I. I mean, I am my products. Like, I live and breathe it. And so I think that's why it works. But, yeah, that just completely flipped my narrative for me and. And my whole. Anyways, thank you for that little tip, because now our whole team is like, no, we are. We are products.
- [48:25]
A
We are product.
- [48:25]
B
You, in the last few years, have really kind of leaned into your celebrity. Would you say you're sort of a face of the brand now? Has that been a strategic move or has that just sort of been a natural progression with people's interest in you?
- [48:38]
A
You know what happened? And it's so interesting, I think, that people started to see me as a face, and I really had an aversion to that and a problem with it because I thought, do people not understand that I go to work in an office every day? If you see me with my legs up on the desk, you know, I'm actually at my desk. There's something on my screen. Like, I'm on a Phone call and a lovely girl from Social came and took a photo of me, right? So I kind of wanted to, right, size this idea of, like, what it is that I do. And I was like, no, no, no, guys, like, you have to work. I felt that everybody was, like, thinking about brands and businesses, like, going to conferences and taking a picture and posting it and being like, a boss. And I was like, no, no, not so aesthetic, guys. Like, I have a nice surrounding because I've worked for 25 years to buy a beautiful building, to have an office, not because, like, I put the surrounding together and piled the books, like, do you know what I mean? So a little bit of it was to kind of create the real narrative around the reality of what it has taken me to get to the. And also to share that I've had so much failure and so many mistakes because people imagine that you kind of roll out to bed and your hair's great and you roll into a great business. And so I wanted to be honest about, like, here's what it took. Here's how I started my career in corporate. Here are all the mistakes that I've made and the businesses that didn't work. And guess what? Like, you get another chance. It's not either or, it's both. And. And I think specifically for women, you know, there's a lot of business books out there, right? There's not a lot written by or not nearly as many as we would want written by women. Not a lot written by mothers and mothers of four. And certainly not high school dropouts that are mothers of four.
- [50:22]
B
Exactly.
- [50:23]
A
So to me, I had, like, some sort of wisdom to add to the collective narrative that's out there. And I do want women to understand that, you know, there is a place for you in this, like, business world. There is a place for you in. In corporate America. And we actually are desperate right now for more women in positions of power. We need women to make more money and be paid what they deserve to be paid. And so I just thought if I was honest about my own journey, that people would be like, oh, like, she did that. Like, I can do that for sure. Like, she didn't, like, you know, have the background that I thought she did. And that means, like, I can do this thing too. Exactly. So that's what I was hoping for, that I could, like, dispel some of the. The kind of stuff that was circling around me because I was like, that's not my truth. Yeah, I go to work. I'm in the office every day.
- [51:12]
B
Exactly. Well, and that's why you're such an inspiration. Well, and I love how you talked about how you've had a lot of failures. And I think when you're at your level, we love to just talk about the successes that you've had. And any founder and CEO knows, for every good idea, there's a million bad ideas.
- [51:27]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [51:28]
B
I want to know a risk that you took, a bad idea that you had that didn't work out the way you wanted.
- [51:33]
A
Oh, my goodness. I have so many. I'll give you an old one, and then I'll give you a new one. I think the old one was that, you know, when I first I had this agency in England that was killing, and I opened an office in New York, and it was so good. And then I came to LA and I failed so miserably. And it wasn't just disappointing for me. It was disappointing because, you know, you. You hire people, you take them out of their jobs. You. You know, I was moving them across the world, and it was such a. A failure for me at the time. And I felt like I felt it so personally.
- [52:05]
B
And how old were you at this point?
- [52:07]
A
I was. That's a great question. I must have been 30.
- [52:10]
B
Okay.
- [52:11]
A
Was I 30? Yeah. Gray wasn't born. Yeah, maybe I was 29, 30. And I really, you know, I really was drinking the Kool Aid. I was like, I'm so amazing. There's nothing I can do wrong. And I really was, like, baffled for so long. I was like, how did I fail? And it started this practice that I always have now. Like, when I get something really wrong, when something goes really wrong, bad in the businesses, which it always does, I then figure out, I'm like, obviously, what went wrong? I'm like, what was my part in that? What was I telling myself? The stories that allowed me to not see what was going on. And then you see patterns. You're like, oh, I do that over and over and over and over again. So it's really an interesting thing to do. And so I think that was one. I also think, you know, when Good American launched shoes, I believed in my head, I was. I was like, that makes sense. We're a brand that is, you know, like, rooted in this idea of inclusivity. I make all of these different sizes, and we can do shoes. It's like, customers didn't accept that we would do shoes.
- [53:10]
B
I didn't know that you guys did shoes.
- [53:11]
A
Thank God, because I buried it real quick. Sure. That happened and then it didn't happen.
- [53:16]
B
How Long were shoes out for they
- [53:18]
A
at least two years. I mean, I gave it a go. And listen, here's the thing. I had an, you know, because I know how to package things. I know some market things. We had an amazing launch. We had an amazing sort of three, four months until we didn't. And it was that lack of acceptance. You know, we've had categories where, if you think about the brand is based on fit and fabrication. That is really what makes Good American. Good American. So I can go into swim, but I can't do sunglasses.
- [53:42]
B
So interesting.
- [53:42]
A
And I can't do shoes. Right. So there's certain places where you're allowed to operate given what people believe. And I think that there was a naivety that I could apply the same thinking to anything and be accepted. Accepted. And that was a really hard one for me because I had, you know, I told the board, I spent a lot of money. I was like, this is gonna be amazing. And then I looked and I was like, I don't wanna wear those shoes. I don't like them.
- [54:07]
B
Funny. You know, shoes are a beast too. Cause it's so many sizes. It takes up a ton of room in the warehouse. I mean, it's. Yeah, shoes are a lot. That's a really good example. Is that a hard thing for you to say? Okay, I screwed up and we need to close the door on the shoes.
- [54:21]
A
No, no. I'm so good at it. Like, I'm really good at being self critical. I do it with my kids all the time. And you know why? Again, I do it so that other people can do it. Yeah, because when used to go, oh, that was a bad decision, like the other day I switched some episodes around, I messed around with things and it wasn't the right decision. And I'm the first one to call it out. I'm like, oh, that thing that I made everybody do and rush for, like, that was a bad decision. Sorry. And then people don't feel bad when they have to do exactly, exactly the same thing.
- [54:50]
B
Because everyone makes mistakes. It's just part of business.
- [54:53]
A
Yeah, it's just part of business. The only thing I find unforgivable is not the ability to not dissect it. It's like, why was it wrong? What about it was wrong? What did we lose? Somebody calculate that. How would you do it again next time? Like, I need the full loop of the thing. Let's look at the. Yeah, yeah. Like, not like sauce. Like, no, that's unacceptable to me. I need you to come full circle. And then I'M like, great, let's go. And I'm going to be fully supportive.
- [55:18]
B
I love that. Yeah. With a brand, I think, you know, I think investors are great, obviously with marketing because that's how you get it out there. But if you don't have any investors, you don't have a lot of money, you're a newer business. What are ways that you could get your brand out there?
- [55:35]
A
Well, you know, I. Again, this is one of the things that I talk about in the book because I feel like so many women feel like they have to be the front and the lead of their brand. And I think that that is great for some people, but it isn't for everybody, nor is it a necessity. If you think about all the brands that you grew up with, you didn't know who was behind them. Like you didn't know.
- [55:54]
B
I think that's become a relatively newer thing that people care now.
- [55:56]
A
But like some of the biggest and leading brands in the world are faceless and nameless, and that is completely fine. I think what you have to do is be really focused. And I think that what happens, I invest in a lot of startups and they come to me with like a list of 10 things that they're focused on. I'm like, that's not a focus. A focus is like three things. Like, literally you're going to narrow your focus and if customer is not one of those things, you will not win because you need your customers to be your marketing people need to get your thing and they need to feel so immortal about it that they're going to tell your friend. And that good old word of mouth that delighting customers so much that they tell people is the single best marketing that any brand could have, regardless of how much money they've got to spend. So when you are really, really focused and you make your customers so important to you and what they think and feel, because even if they're giving you bad feedback, you can go back in and iterate on that and correct it and then hopefully start the flywheel. So I always go, like, really have your customers and what they are saying, not what you believe in your business to be, be the number one thing.
- [57:06]
B
I love that. That's great. So in your case, is the customer always right, sort of speaking? Yeah, they kind of try to.
- [57:13]
A
Yeah, I think the customer is always right. Do I think the customer always knows what they want? No.
- [57:16]
B
Right.
- [57:17]
A
Like, you could never have said you wanted like a pair of jeans that fits like five different sizes. We had to make that for you. To understand that that's what innovation is. But I think the customer is always right. Yeah. Because there is. That's their trust. Truth. Right. It might not be that. That's your customer.
- [57:33]
B
Right, right, right.
- [57:34]
A
You might be like, okay, girl. Like, but maybe we're not for you. But it's like, that's their truth. And I think there's so much to glean and so much for. And still now. And I should have said this on my day off. On my mystical day off that I'm having.
- [57:47]
B
That you'll never have.
- [57:48]
A
I literally comb the comment sections. I go into reviews. I still have all of the passwords, and I go in, and I will, like, you know, I text the team, and I'm like, do you know that customers are saying about this particular skewer? Thank you, Emma. Yes. We saw that in Insights, but thank you for bringing it to our attention.
- [58:09]
B
Like, I'm just letting you know it's too late.
- [58:11]
A
I'm just like, I need to know. I've switched on here. Can see this happening. Oh, I love that.
- [58:15]
B
You do?
- [58:15]
A
Yeah, I'm in it. I mean, read it. I'm in it. Oh, wow. Yeah.
- [58:20]
B
See, you do have tough skin to be able to do all of that.
- [58:22]
A
Oh, I know. Cause what they say ain't always nice.
- [58:24]
B
Yeah. I would be like, excuse me, ma'.
- [58:25]
A
Am. My God.
- [58:28]
B
What is the driver for you today? Because, you know, you've built this beautiful life, and I know that that was your goal, right? Was to have a different life than you did growing up. And money's not the driver anymore. So what's getting you to the office now? What. What motivates you and keeps you going?
- [58:42]
A
You know, it's so funny. I don't know anything else but to work. You know, I was with somebody yesterday, and she was like, I can't. Like, I'm working towards my retirement. I was like, you are. Like, I think I'll work when I'm not. I really do think about everyone else. You know, it's like, I go back to where I came from, and I think that, you know, talent is fairly evenly distributed. Right. Opportunity isn't. And because we're women, sometimes we have to take responsibility for how much we're holding ourselves back. And so my point of view is that if you are. If you are somebody that can, for whatever reason, galvanize other people, if you can go out and tell your story, if somebody goes, oh, my goodness, like, because she did, I can. That feels really important to me at this point, especially, like, where we are in the world politically, economically, socially. Like, all the things. Right. There's like all the people making decisions around AI for the very larger most part are men.
- [59:40]
B
Right.
- [59:41]
A
Like, that stuff's going to have a huge impact on our lives.
- [59:43]
B
Yeah.
- [59:43]
A
So I don't want to miss that. I don't want to miss. So I would like to make sure that as many women as possible get into positions of power and influence in business, in politics, in every part of our world and our lives. And I think that I could probably, because I'm a good organizer, I can probably help that happen and probably make that a reality.
- [60:04]
B
Yes. I love that.
- [60:06]
A
Yeah. That's what I'm trying. That's what I'm doing. Like, every week I sit on that podcast and I'm like, tell me how much money you made. Tell me how you built your company. Explain to me how you raised that money. Tell me how you, like, do an insane best in class negotiation. So I think people, like, we need that information.
- [60:21]
B
I agree. I know. I love that. That's such a great answer.
- [60:24]
A
Oh, thanks.
- [60:25]
B
So. So what is your goal? Like, in 10 years, where do you see your life? You won't be chilling on a beach somewhere. Huh? You're still going to be grinding. You're going to be bringing all the women together.
- [60:34]
A
I will. I'll be there being like, look at that girl. She listened to an episode.
- [60:40]
B
Yeah.
- [60:41]
A
I found 179. She got it and took it. Exactly. I invested in her. I think it's like, you gotta put your money where your mouth is. You know, I invest in a lot of amazing women, and I think when women are given opportunities, they do insane stuff. I mean, look at you. You know, it's like you got an opportunity and you ran with it and you learned and you, you know, you changed and you iterated. And we need to know that. We need to see that. And I think if you can give women information and opportunity, like, they are gonna. They're gonna do insane things.
- [61:11]
B
I agree.
- [61:12]
A
I think that, like, to me, that feels exciting.
- [61:15]
B
I love it.
- [61:15]
A
You know, like, imagine that. Like, imagine you're raising your kids and it's like all women and girls that are, like, leading the best, most exciting, brilliant things.
- [61:25]
B
Yes.
- [61:25]
A
It's like all, you know, I think about my life, like, imagine I only had female bosses. Oh, my God. It would have been like, insane.
- [61:33]
B
Right? Right.
- [61:33]
A
It would have been so much easier. I know.
- [61:35]
B
Yeah. Very difficult.
- [61:36]
A
It would have been very different. And I'm like, oh, I can see a future where at least, like, 50% of that could be true.
- [61:43]
B
Oh, I definitely think we're headed that way.
- [61:45]
A
We are.
- [61:45]
B
Because of people like you. Because you're out there inspiring the women. Emma.
- [61:49]
A
Go, Go.
- [61:51]
B
Okay. I wanna play a game with you. What it is Hot or not, but we're gonna do Business Edition. Okay? So I'm just gonna give you a little business scenario and you're gonna tell me if you think it's hot or not. Okay. A loose work from home policy.
- [62:03]
A
Not.
- [62:06]
B
We know that answer. Okay, Enough said. I think I know the answer to this one. Unlimited pto.
- [62:14]
A
Oh, can I tell you? Hot.
- [62:15]
B
Okay, great. Okay, tell me about it.
- [62:17]
A
I have that in all of my companies. Because ultimately, what do people want more than anything else? They actually want autonomy over their lives. And when you give people the idea and the ability to be able to maximize, like, the good stuff in their life, the vacations, the time, they work so much harder. I've seen it in practice.
- [62:35]
B
Yeah, we do that.
- [62:36]
A
It totally works.
- [62:37]
B
Absolutely. Okay. Bonus structure for the entire company.
- [62:41]
A
Oh, hot, hot. I like to pay people well and bonus them well. And again, like, it's just. You get what you pay for.
- [62:48]
B
Okay. I love that. Starting a company with a friend.
- [62:53]
A
I mean, listen, I work with my husband. Sister. My best friend's company. I'm going to say hot, hot, but be careful.
- [63:00]
B
Exactly.
- [63:01]
A
Exactly. But, you know, make sure they're good. Like, not any old friend.
- [63:04]
B
Yeah, exactly. Could easily blow up in your face. No investors ever.
- [63:09]
A
I think that is hot, hot, hot. Okay.
- [63:11]
B
I love it.
- [63:12]
A
Yeah. You know, Mark Cuban says it best, so I can't steal it from him. He says investors are an obligation. Right. That's all you have. You raise money. It's like a huge obligation. If you don't have investors. Like, you get them when you really, really, really need them. And you have something that is so good, that the ability to scale it is so appealing that you have your pick of investors.
- [63:32]
B
Exactly.
- [63:33]
A
When you're struggling, you will struggle.
- [63:35]
B
Exactly. Okay, great answer. Faking it till you make it.
- [63:38]
A
I think that's hot.
- [63:39]
B
Yeah. Asking questions when you don't know, even if it makes you seem green. Hot, hot, hot, hot, hot. Yeah. You talk about that in your book.
- [63:46]
A
You have to.
- [63:46]
B
Yeah, you have to. That's how you learn. Being quick to fire hot.
- [63:51]
A
It's not good for anyone. Right. It's like, it's not great for your employee. It isn't great for you. And you owe that to the other people in your organization as well. Because let me tell you, like, Bad people, they drag the whole place down.
- [64:03]
B
It's so true.
- [64:04]
A
No one wants to work next to a slacker. It's like you're working your ass off and the girl next to you is like a 70 percenter. Is like, get her out.
- [64:10]
B
Yeah, get her out. Being quick to hire.
- [64:13]
A
I'm very thoughtful in my hiring, so I say not. Okay, I'm gonna reference the shit out of you.
- [64:18]
B
Yeah, you're smart.
- [64:19]
A
You're smart.
- [64:20]
B
That's bit me in the ass a few times.
- [64:21]
A
You know, like it's a nanny or something. Like nannies. I'm like, you coming with me, girl? I need you now. It's so, like, critical. I'm just like, I'm not messing around with those decisions.
- [64:30]
B
Okay, that's fair. Okay. And then the last one is becoming friends with your employees.
- [64:37]
A
I. I have to say that that's hot. Because here's the thing. When you are in, like a high pressured environment with people, I think that it's natural that you build relationships. It's natural that when you're going, like, you're in startup mode and you're in like, small situations with people, you are going to be perfect. I think what you've gotta do is keep the professional lines always open. And that's why, you know, you can be honest. You don't need to be brutally honest. You can still be a kind, empathetic, lovely person and yet be a straight shooter. So I think that that's more about like a level of honesty. Like, what are we all here to do? To make money, to grow the business, to do X, Y and Z? Because these are our kind of critical goals. And we're gonna have a glass of wine at the end of the day because we're on a work trip and we're gonna be nice together and, you know, if we happen to be out late, we're gonna dance.
- [65:27]
B
Exactly. Yes. I love it.
- [65:28]
A
I think so.
- [65:29]
B
Yeah. I agree. Emma, you're the best. You are such an inspiration. Thank you so, so much for being here. Your book is out today, so everyone needs to go and get it. Also, your podcast, Aspire, where can people find you on socials? Give us all the. All the things. All the things.
- [65:43]
A
Come and listen to the podcast. It's Aspire with Emma Greed. The book is available everywhere you buy your books. And I'm Emma Greed. Dot com, I guess. And then, you know, the same on all socials, on all the things.
- [65:54]
B
Oh, yeah. Cause you're on TikTok too.
- [65:56]
A
I mean, you're all over, apparently I mean, listen, tikt.
- [65:59]
B
Apparently.
- [66:00]
A
I mean. Yeah, I think they should follow you on TikTok. I don't know. I see you pop up.
- [66:05]
B
You're pretty damn good. Thank you so much for being here.
- [66:08]
A
Thank you, my darling.
- [66:09]
B
This was wonderful.
- [66:09]
A
You are the best. You are the best.
- [66:16]
B
Yeah, I got all the power. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.