← Let's Be Honest with Kristin Cavallari
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The following podcast is a Dear Media production. This is, let's be honest with Kristen Cavallari, a podcast all about getting real and open on everything from sex, relationships, reality tv, wellness, family, and so much more. And just a fair warning, there will probably be some oversharing. Welcome in. How is everybody? We are back for yet another Hills rewatch episode. Okay, today, the episode is titled Strike One. All right, we're just gonna jump right in, guys. So this episode is Brody's birthday. Brody is turning 26. My God, 26. Oh, my God. It's crazy how fast time goes. So we open up the episode with six. Stacy and I going to the Hustler store. Thanks, mtv. You guys really always put me in a great light. So the Hustler store, if you're not familiar, is basically a sex shop. It has all the sex toys imaginable. It has lingerie. I mean, it has everything sex imaginable. And so, you know, not gonna lie, guys, I did not frequent the Hustler Store. I don't know that I ever went in there. I think maybe the only time we would go in there was for Halloween costumes. And so this really was my first time browsing. But, like, you guys, mtv, like, but also, I don't know, I guess myself for not being like, hey, can we go to any store but the Hustler store? I don't know. Like, oh, you guys want me to get Brody a birthday present at the Hustler store when he's in a relationship with Jade? What the hell, you guys? Okay, I'll go. I would never do. I would never do that. But again, I mean, listen, like, we're playing this up. So we get him a collar and a whip, and I say, because he's so whipped on Jade, and. Oh, my God, I mean, I can't even believe the conversations that I'm having on camera. So Stacy and I are talking about Brody and I and our sex life, and I say that Brody and I never used any of this stuff. So Stacy asks specifically about our sex life, and I say that it was very vanilla, if you will. Oh, my God. I have no words, honestly, like, why? What? I remember Brody did not like that comment. Brody did not like that. That did not sit well with him. And understandably so. I mean, I'm sorry, Brody, that I said that on camera. He wasn't mad at me or anything, but he definitely. He mentioned it. He mentioned it. So, yeah. So Stacy asks who I'm gonna go to Brody's party with, which was a wild line And I say that I'm gonna go with Justin. Also a wild line, by the way. It is a surprise party for Brody that Jade is throwing. And so, yes, they're. They're setting it up, trying to make it seem like Justin and I are gonna go to the party together, which this was never even on the table, which is also why they had to get it later in wild lines. And so. And we've talked about this, but I think what happens sometimes is, like, the party, for example. Like, Justin never comes to the party, right? So then in post or later, they're like, okay, how can we give it more stakes, right? Like, give the party some more drama. Like, amp up the storyline between the two of us, Justin and I. And so then they're like, oh, we should make it seem like Kristen and Justin were gonna go together. And then he flaked on her. Great idea. That's a great storyline. Okay, so now we're at my. My Malibu house. I did not remember this scene. It's with Justin and I, and he's surfing, and we're just hanging out at the beach. We have some wine. It's the middle of the day, not a care in the world. And we're. He and I are just sitting outside in the sun on the. On the beach, and we're talking about tattoos. You know, Justin's all tatted up. At the time, I had two tattoos. I had a star on my foot and the Capricorn symbol on the back of my neck. And I tell him, I want to get two more stars on my foot. I remember that was always my plan. I started with one star on my foot, and I always thought I would go back and get two more, which I don't know why I didn't just get three at the same time. I never got those other two stars. But that was my plan for years, which it actually would have worked because the Tennessee flag has three stars. So it. Look at that. Just life imitating art. Guys, maybe Justin would be proud of my tattoos now, because I have 10 now, okay? So I am telling Justin we should go to Brody's party together. Also a wild line. And I say that Jade is throwing it, but isn't it funny? Because if Jade hated me, like, they've made it seem this whole time, right? Like, they love to get any sort of little clip of Jade saying, I can't stand her or whatever, which. Who knows who she's talking about. They obviously make it seem like she's talking about me. But if Jane hated me so much, why would she invite me to Brody's party? Right? Like, it just. None of it really adds up. And again, Jade and I never hated each other. Jade and I actually really liked each other. Then we cut to a scene of Adrina and Stephanie, and they're getting their nails done. And Adriana, you know, they're saying that she needs to come out again. You know, she needs to be having fun again. Like, she's basically been sitting at home by herself, you know, since I came on the scene. And Adriana is talking about this guy Derek, who Stephanie says, isn't that Justin, Bobby's best friend? And Audrey is like, well, he's technically both of our friends. And so Audrina is gonna go on a lunch date with him. And she's saying how Justin used to get mad because he always felt like something was going on between Derek and Audrina. And Stephanie is like, well, you know, did something happen between you guys? And she tells Stephanie that she's kissed him or she implied that, because, you know, I guess Justin always used to think that, like, they hooked up. And so Audrina was like, we didn't, like, hooked up, hook up, hook up, like that, which to me, makes it seem like they kissed or something, but didn't have sex. I don't know. That's just what I picked up on. And Stephanie does say that. It kind of sounds like Audrina is going to go on this lunch date with Derek out of revenge. And I don't know, my guess is that was probably a little MTV is doing as well. I don't think Audrina just, like, pulled that out of her ass and was like, hey, I'm gonna go on a date with Justin's best friend. My guess is MTV caught wind of that, and they really pushed for that. So then we're at Brody's birthday party, and Brody's mom, Linda, is there. Shout out, Linda. I do love Lind so very much. It was so good to see her. And because, you know, you guys, you have to remember, I really did date Brody when I was 18. So four years prior to this, he was my first boyfriend in la. I basically lived with him and his mom for a stint. And so I got really close with Linda, with his mom, and I. Linda's always just been nothing but sweet. She is so warm and welcoming and just. She's just an awesome, awesome woman. And they show that, you know, I mean, I think they. They really show that Linda and I obviously have a relationship. You can tell we've known each other For a while. And isn't it funny, because now, magically, at this birthday party, Jade and I are cool with each other. You know, we're getting along. Even though I think last episode she was saying how much she can't stand me. But see, I think when you know the real story, the backstory, it's actually. You can kind of actually pick it up pretty easily and tell. So there's a whole stink about. Where's Justin? Where's Justin? Bobby, are you dating? Oh, my God. Where is he? Like. And I'm like, I don't know. So Brody really was surprised, and I definitely think that was real. This is where MTV really did come through in situations like this where you did want to pull off a surprise because they helped it. I mean, obviously, like, they were with Brody before, I'm sure, which got cut out, but I'm sure they had cameras with Brody and his guy friends before. And so that in itself is a distraction. And then Brody is on their time, and they can stop him if the party's not ready. Like, it's just. It's so perfectly orchestrated when you have MTV around to help pull off a surprise party. So Brody is very much surprised, which is awesome. Then you have Low Stephanie and I sitting together, the three of us, which, as a viewer, I don't know. I didn't know that we all were cool with each other. I thought these girls absolutely fucking despised me. And now the three of us are, like, sitting here having a little bow wow. My guess is that was MTV led. Or it's one of two things. It could have been MTV saying, hey, can we get the three of you sitting down talking together? Sure. I could see that happening. Or it could have been really, the three of us just naturally kind of sitting down together. And then the conversation was MTV led. I don't know. I don't remember. But they asked me if I'm dating Justin. I say, yes. What? What? That was not. No. That was spliced together. There's no world in which I would have said I was dating Justin. There's just no world, I don't think, because I wasn't. And I say, he's coming, I think. And, you know, they make it seem like I'm. I'm worried and kind of upset about where he is, where none of that. None of that was true. Then there's a water balloon fight, you guys. And what do you know? I get decked in the fucking face. Oh, my God. How lucky are they that they got this on camera? I got hit Right in the face. And I remember it hurt because I got hit really hard with a water balloon, but it, like, smashed my sunglasses into my face. I was so pissed, you guys. And I say that I'm actually just really upset because half of my hair is gonna get curly because half of my hair got wet. And my hair is naturally pretty wavy. And that's always my biggest thing. Like, if I get my hair wet and I know it has to air dry, I'm like, my hair is gonna be. It's not cute. It's curls, but, like, not cute curls. And it's just. I never want to let my hair air dry, so. And I'm filming, right? I'm on camera, so I'm pissed. But anyways, there's more with Linda and I, and she is saying, any man is lucky to be my man. And she's just. She's been really sweet to me because they're asking me where Justin is and blah, blah, blah. But Linda's, like, really having my back and being really sweet. And they make it seem like there's this awkward scene with Brody and Jade and the sex toys that I quote, unquote, gave him. Like, I never in a million years would have given Brody sex sex toys, like, ever, ever, ever, if it wasn't for mtv. And they make it seem like Jade is really pissed. And I don't remember her being pissed, especially about the sex toys. I feel like I would maybe remember that, unless maybe she really was mad because of the combination of all the things which they're showing, which is Linda really being very sweet to me. And, like, we're having this moment in this bond between the sex toys. And then, you know how we're all going to go back to my. My Malibu house for an after party. And Jay doesn't want to go, but Brody's going. And Brody actually says, you're really going to be a bitch. Like that. And I was like, oh, God, that is not a good thing to say to your girlfriend. Oh, I don't know. And Jade does not come to the after party. So I have a feeling. Feeling there was some truth to this, because otherwise Jade would have come. I mean, I. So, yeah, my guess is maybe she was kind of mad. And the conversation that Brody and I have at my house later feels really genuine to me, which is. Here. We'll cut to it. This is, like, way later. This is, like, towards the end of the episode. But, okay, so Jade doesn't come, and Brody saying that, you know, he didn't want to fight and he actually says, love is a horrible thing when it goes wrong. Let's take a minute to talk about Element. 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And, you know, listen, I like this little moment with Brody and I because that is actually me. Like, that is a glimpse of who I really am. Nothing that I did, like the sex toys and anything, Like, I never would have done that on my own or intentionally to piss off Jay. That's just not who I am as a person. And so this glimpse of me being like, wait, is she seriously mad because of me? Is like, I'm genuinely being like, holy shit. Because I. That wasn't my intention. And obviously, listen, there is probably a piece of this where I maybe took it too far sometimes with the filming stuff. And, you know, I probably could have had more empathy for Jade and Brody because they were in a real relationship, kind of like when Steven and I were in a real relationship. And maybe that is something that I should have been like, hey, I'm not going to give Brody sex toys. Like, this is so dumb. But in my head, I'm just like, cool. I'm a team player now. Like, I'm going to do whatever you guys want. And I was like that because it was the opposite on Laguna Beach. And that was a really, really tough situation for me. So I thought the only way for me to enjoy the hills was to be game and be up to do whatever. And maybe there's a world in which it was too far for some people. And if that's the case, I do feel really bad about it. I really don't remember Jade being mad about the sex toys, though. But maybe, you know, to me, she wasn't. But maybe, you know, behind closed doors, she actually was, which is totally understandable. So I do kind of feel bad if that were the case. Another thing Brody said to Jade, when she's walking away and he's going, we don't care. Leave. We don't care. That, Ah, that could have been a wild line. I can't imagine he was saying that to her, because Brody wasn't mean. And so I. I don't know. I just. I really can't see that. I think that. I don't know. I think it was a different time. I also think it's different when you're 22. Well, I guess he was turning 26. I just can't really see Brody saying that to his girlfriend, though, if I'm being completely honest. All right, so then we have Derek picking up Audrina for this lunch date, and. Oh, God, any date on camera. You guys was so awkward when it was a first or second date or, like, you know, anyone. Anyone knew that you didn't know that. Well, it was always so awkward. So I just felt for both Derek and Audrina in this scene. And I thought Derek was Q. I was like, go, Audrina. He says he did not tell Justin that they were going to lunch. And you know what I was thinking? That was all they showed of the date, wasn't picking her up in the car ride. They didn't actually show any of the date, you guys. So I'm assuming it didn't go very well, or I'm assuming it was just kind of boring. I don't know. Because otherwise, why wouldn't they show any of it? They only showed going in the car for, like, one minute. Not even. So I don't know. I don't know how that date went, but he was cute. And then they have, okay, Spencer and Charlie hitting golf balls at their new house. And, you know, their house is so incredible and has these views and this land that they're able to just hit golf balls off of their property, which is so great. And they're talking about married life, the house. And Spencer is saying he never would have gotten married if he knew it was going to be, you know, all about kid time. And they're having this conversation, and what do you know? In the midst of this conversation, Enzo comes over unannounced, uninvited and unannounced. And they ask him how he got in. He says he knows the code. I mean, it's just also perfect, you guys. Perfect for tv. Enzo really is so cute, though, and just such a great character. I mean, I feel like he was born to be on tv. I'm so curious where Enzo is now, by the way. Should look that up. So Spencer tells Enzo we're gonna play hide and seek. He wants him to count to 2,000. And Enzo's like, seems like a lot. He's like, I'll just go. The kid drama is really just. I think it's, again, just the comedic relief that we need to then cut back to the beach house party. So we're at my. My house, this beach house, and I'm sitting there with Stephanie. Like, we're best friends. So what do you know? And so I tell Stephanie that we only kissed once. It's not like we're hooking up, because, again, you guys, we never. We didn't hook up. We never hooked up. I only kissed him once on camera for the show. And I think that's what I'm kind of trying to imply to Stephanie. It's so wild to me to See how drunk I would get on camera. Like, I really didn't hold back. I had no problem drinking on camera and being wild. And it's. I just would never do that today. I mean, obviously, huge difference from age 22 to 38, but, God, I really just. Just put it all out there, you know, I was just living my best life. So there's a wild line from Stacy, and she says she can't believe Justin Bobby didn't show up. And I am saying I never actually care about guys. I never go out of my way. I don't think about guys at. But that I thought about him, didn't think I would actually have feelings for him and get upset. And this is interesting because, well, there's kind of a lot to unpack here. So my Persona back in the day was definitely, I don't care about guys. I don't need guys. You know, like, no guy keeps me up at night sort of a thing. Which is basically what I'm saying. And while yes, that was true, it's not like I was a complete stone cold killer, right? Like, I had feelings and I had relationships and I always really liked my boyfriends and, you know, but that was a protection mechanism that I had back in the day is to be like, I don't care. I don't care when I'm sure I did. But I also am not convinced that I'm talking about Justin Bobby here. If I'm being completely honest, I could have been talking about someone entirely different, you guys, Or I could have been playing it up for the camera. That's probably what it was because I had no problem doing that. And you know, it's so funny is after this, watching this episode, I started remembering some other episodes. And there was closer to the end of the second season. So, like, close to the finale, there was a scene with Brody and I. And was I saying goodbye to Brody or. I can't remember, But Brody and I filmed at a restaurant in Santa Monica, and they asked me if I could cry. And I was like, I'll try. I don't know, but we're gonna find out. I'll try. And I did. And I remember being really proud of myself. I was like, oh, wow. But my point with that is a lot of this stuff was acting like it really was. And I actually found if I had a couple drinks in me, I sometimes was better. So that's why. Or I don't. Maybe I shouldn't say acting. Maybe I should say improv. Because while this sentiment is very much who I was at age 22, the feelings towards Justin and me being upset is not true, but I was able to tap into, like, how I would feel had I liked someone or I was able to, you know, come up with this to, to be like, you know, this is so out of character for me, basically, like, but God, I really did have feelings for him. Even though, again, like, it's not true. But, like, that was easy for me to do, to have this type of a conversation on camera and to play it up and to improv slash act. This is what made it feel fun for me. Like, this is why I really enjoyed filming the Hills. And by the way, I had five years of acting experience in between Laguna beach and the Hills. And so it just, it was fun. It was really fun. So then Brody comes in and. And we say, if there isn't a Justin, Bobby, there's a Brody. And so that's when Brody and I have that conversation. And I just remember, you know, the, the very few times that we got to be at that Malibu house, we really had a lot of fun because my guess is we filmed for a little bit longer. And then, you know, the thing with filming is they have to be done at a certain time. You know, there's only so many hours in the day that they can film. And so I'm sure they had a hard out and we got to stay and hang. And those were always really fun, really fun nights. Then Heidi and Spencer are at dinner. Spencer, comedic relief. I'm telling you guys. He is wearing a cowboy hat. And I guess it's a beaver skin hat, they say. I mean, they just, these two absolutely kill me. And so Heidi is, you know, immediately going into, what should we get first? A cat, a dog, et cetera, et cetera. And Spencer's like, oh, wow, you know, no baby on that list. Like, wow. And you guys, they're 23 years old or, sorry, Heidi is 23 years old. I think Spencer and Brody are the same age. So Spencer, I think is 26. But 23 is young to be talking about babies. I mean, wow. I don't know. When I heard them say that Heidi was 23, I was like, whoa. And she's like, really, you know, going all out here on the babies, which again, I know is like for storyline. I also do know Heidi always did want to be a mom, though. I don't think that was like, completely out of left field, but. And obviously, I mean, she's, you know, they're parents now and they're really happy. And Spencer loves being a dad, but I just was like, damn, 23. And to be like, really talking about kids is wild. Although, I don't know, I wasn't that far off. I got pregnant at age 24, so. But it just was not on my mind at that age at all. And then Spencer asks Heidi if it's a marriage or a dictatorship. I just, I love these two. Spencer says, I never want to have kids. And Heidi's like, yes, you do. You just don't know it yet. Which isn't it so funny now, knowing how things turned out with the two of them, that this was their storyline and it's just, it's so funny. But you know what is actually even funnier is Heidi would have a thousand kids today. Like, I maybe the last time I talked to Heidi about this was, I don't know, 4ish years ago, 4 or 3. We got dinner in, in LA one night and I remember talking about this. But she would have more kids. I think Spencer's kind of the one that is still like pumping the brakes on it, which is, you know, so I think there was maybe a seed of truth here. Let's chat about Cook Unity. The holidays are here, which means it's time for comfort, joy, and really good food. I every Christmas Eve, or Christmas depending, I always make homemade meatballs and sauce and pasta, and it is so, so good. And now you guys can impress your relatives. Yes, Even the judgy ones. 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From the award winning chefs behind Cook unity, go to cookunity.com honest or enter code honest before checkout to get 50% off your first order. That's 50% off your first order by using code honest or going to cookunity.com honestly all right, let's talk about Kahlua. I'm pretty sure everybody knows about the brand Kahlua. They've been around forever. They are the brand famous for their great tasting espresso martinis and now they've developed something new. Featuring one of Dunkin's best selling flavor swirls, Kahlua Dunkin Caramel Swirl blends luscious caramel and coffee flavor into one easy to enjoy sip. This Ready to Pour liqueur is creamy, irresistibly smooth and perfectly sippable. To craft a creamy, dreamy drink at home, you can serve Kahlua Dunkin Caramel Swirl Cream Liqueur chilled or over ice. Or if you want to level it up, you can pair it with the Dunkin Munchkins Donut Hole Treat. You could drizzle caramel on your drink. You could add a toasted marshmallow. I mean you could do whatever your little heart desires. But it is so good. I have a bottle at my house right now. It's perfect for the holiday season. I love an espresso martini, but this drink really is so good on its and it is so easy to sip and just enjoy. Especially this holiday season. If you're going to someone's house for a party, this is such a great one to bring too. You can find Kahlua Duncan Caramel Swirl at retailers nationwide including Walmart, Total Wine, Albertsons, Kroger, Ralph's, Safeway, Bevmo, Publix and more. You must be 21 or older to purchase. Please drink responsibly. For additional information, visit kahlua.com and you can follow Kahlua on Instagram. Let's chat Wayfair well, the holidays are here. How that happened I have no idea, but I am currently searching for a couple last minute gifts as I'm sure a lot of you are as well. And I'm hosting a couple Christmas parties so I'm also making sure that I have everything I need for my kitchen and for my home. 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Get last minute hosting essentials, gifts for all your loved ones and decor to celebrate the holidays. For way less, head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every style, every home. Okay, so then we go to Stephanie and Audrina at I believe it's Stephanie's apartment. And Audrina says that Derek opened the door for her. So they're. They're downloading about the Adriana's lunch date. She says, derek, open the door for her. Like, it's a big deal. Isn't that crazy, you guys, that that's where the bar is when you're age 22, like, if you're in your early 20s and you're listening to this, only go out with guys who open your door. Like, what? Where are the manners with these guys? Where are the parents raising these boys? I promise you guys, I am raising my boys to be little gentlemen. And if my boys do not open your door for you, then kick them to the curb. But she says the date went well. There was no drama. I mean, clearly, because we didn't see any of it. I think it was probably just pretty blah, but yeah. So Stephanie tells Audrina that Justin stood me up. He stood me up. And that I kept texting him going, where are you? I would never do anything quite like that. Like, ever, ever, ever. Audrey says it's karma and that it's kind of funny. They're having a little shit talking sesh, which. Fine, I get it. Fine, fine, fine. Even though I didn't give a shit about which. Okay, I want to know. I should text Audrina. I want to know if this whole time, like, Audrina thought that really happened. Like, did Audrina really think that I was upset that Justin wasn't at that party? I'm curious about that. I'm really curious about that, actually. I'm gonna get Some answers for you guys on some of these things. I'm gonna follow up with you. But isn't it up of MTV to make it seem like Justin and I had this incredible time on his motorcycle, this great date where I'm rooting for us to be together, watching it back, I'm smiling and like, yes. Oh, my God. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. And then the next episode, they make it seem like he totally just ditched my ass. Rude. God, that's so rude. I don't like that. Okay, so this scene, the next. The morning after the Malibu party, you guys, oh, my God, this scene is so fucking funny to me. So they make it seem like a wake up scene, which I'm sure it was. The morning. It was not. They did not wake up with us. Like, we always knew what time they were coming. We girls always got up before to be like, take a look in the mirror to be like, okay, I don't look 100% haggard. I only look 90% haggard. Perfect. And so, like, that just cameras never woke me up. It wasn't like that. But okay. They make it seem like it's the morning. So Stacy is downstairs. I'm upstairs in the bedroom. And they have Stacy sitting there, like, with just, like, glasses and drinks and stuff everywhere. And she is a red martini that she is, like. She's, like, shaking and looking so hungover, and she's drinking this red martini. And as she's doing that, I'm walking downstairs, you know, from the bedroom upstairs, and, oh, my God, we're talking about how hungover we are. And, oh, my God. And. And we just start talking about the night before, you know, And I'm saying that Jay didn't like that I'm close with Brody's mom, Linda, and that. Well, it's funny because they're really starting now to lay the groundwork for. For Brody and I. So Stacy says that Brody and I should date. You guys are perfect. And I'm like, I love him, but, you know, we broke up for a reason. And, you know, like. But what's. Like, what are we doing? We are setting it up for Brody and I to have a little stint. And then I say that Adrina put up with a lot of Justin stuff and that I'm shouldn't say stuff like, now I want to censor myself. Adriana put up with a lot of Justin's shit, and I say, I'm not gonna put up with it. I don't have time for it. It's just not me. Strike one. That's where the title of the episode came from. Strike one. Boo. So that is the episode, and I don't remember you guys, the storyline with Justin and I and how this ends and what happens, Like, I actually have no idea. So I'm excited to see. See, because I just. I have no idea what to expect. Like, none. I don't think we really filmed that much more together. So I don't know. I think I'll be able to give you guys some more insight on this whole episode and him, like, not coming to the party based on what happens in the future, because I just am drawing a complete blank. But you want to know what these shows really got right? You know, with Laguna beach and the Hills and I'm assuming the city. I actually never saw the city either. But these shows were so good because as a viewer, you are picking a side. There's no gray area. You're not like, oh, I like Audrina and Kristen. Like, I really hope the girls can work it out. No, you are like, fuck Audrina, you know, or for whatever reason, or you're like, I hate Kristen. Who does she think she is, this new girl coming in? She is a boyfriend stealer. I knew it. I knew it, I knew it. Like, you are picking a side. You are rooting for someone. And so when you root for someone like that, you have to keep tuning in to see what happens. You're like, I. I need. And by the way, I need to know what happens with me and Justin. Like, I'm invested in this. Like, what? Because I have no idea. So they really. They knew what they were doing and they killed it. I mean, and again, before this was like, these shows were like, the first, you know, and then, of course, everyone started doing them after Jersey Shore. Well, Jersey Shore was different. That felt very real to me, but. Or as, you know, kind of as real as you could make a reality show because they had cameras on them 24 7, but, like, Vanderpump Rules and some of these other shows, you know, followed suit years later. And there's a real formula here that works because, man, do you pick a side. And you. I don't know. I just think it's smart as far as the TV show goes. So anyways, that's that episode, and I can't wait to see what comes. So I will see you guys for the next one. And in the meantime, Happy Hills watching. I'm so. I'm watching them as we go, you guys, because I don't want to get too ahead. And so, I mean, I really like. I have. I'm like any other viewer. I have no idea what's to come, which makes it really fun. All right, I'll see you guys. All the power. Yeah, I got all the power. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.