A (1:53)

It's almost like a past life thing where, like, maybe you live there before and so you do have this connection to Vegas.

B (1:58)

Ye.

A (1:58)

Do you ever miss anything? I know you're in LA a lot, but do you miss anything about la?

B (2:02)

I mean, there's like, spots I love, like a little Polo Lounge moment or a Disney moment or just Like a Malibu moment. So there's so much to love about la, but I do get to come here so much, you know, when the kids are out here and things like that, so. No, no. I know it's probably good for my skin to be out here and not in the desert all the time.

A (2:22)

Dry skin.

B (2:23)

Yeah. I feel like I get the best of both worlds when you're out here.

A (2:27)

So you get your little LA fix. Yeah, that's how I feel, too. Have you taken your kids to Disney all the time.

B (2:32)

They're actually at a point. My daughter's 13 and my son is 9, so they're kind of at the point where they're, like, not as into it now. Cause they're a little bit older, so I'm not going as much.

A (2:41)

But, yeah, I'm actually about to do. I took my kids to Disney for spring break. I guess it was two years ago, and my kids just said they want to come back out to la and we're gonna do Disney again this summer.

B (2:50)

Oh, that's so cool.

A (2:51)

I know. We love it. And my kids are actually 13, almost 12 and 10, but they're still. Which makes me so good. I love that. I know the Star wars thing we all were, like, freaking out about. Have you seen that one yet?

B (3:00)

Yes.

A (3:01)

Yeah, it's the best. Well, okay. I'm sure in every interview you do, you're still asked about the girls Next Door, Hugh Hefner, you know, all the things that whole era in your life. Do you ever get annoyed in interviews when people ask you about it, or do you feel like, you know what? That was such an interesting time in my life. I'm happy to talk about it, share that with everybody. And I know obviously you've leaned into it with, you know, your podcast and. And your book and everything else that you've done with it, but are you ever kind of like, ugh, I'm sick of talking about it.

B (3:30)

I've gone through all the phases. I went through a couple phases. One right after I left, and then another right after I wrote my books, where I was like, I'm completely done with it. Never talking about it again, never answering another question about it. But it's so hard to do. Like, I know that's the phase Kendra's in now where she wants nothing to do with it. And I have to hand it to her. Like, she's doing a great job, like, being consistent with that. Cause it's hard. Like, people don't want to let you forget about it. Anytime you're promoting Anything else they want to ask about it. Yeah. So now I've just kind of leaned into it and learned to like it. And obviously I'm doing, like the Rewatch podcast now. So, you know, I mean, there's certain outlets, like, if I'm out doing a random press day with, like, people I don't know, I'll flag certain topics off limits because I don't want them clipped in a certain way. But, like, you know, sitting here, like, on a long form podcast, I'm, like, down to talk about anything.

A (4:20)

I know. I think that's the tricky part is, like, you can be talking about a million other things, and they take that one little snippet that you said about Hugh Hefner, let's say, and then it seems like that's all you're ever talking about. It's like, no, there was so much more to that interview.

B (4:33)

Totally.

A (4:34)

But of course I do want to ask you about it. And I just said to you, I can't believe that we've never met. Our paths have never crossed, which is so wild to me. But I am fascinated, obviously, by that world. I think the same way that everybody else is and was. But you were so young when you moved into the mansion. You were 21, right?

B (4:49)

I was 22.

A (4:50)

Yeah, 22. What do you wish you knew back then that you know now?

B (4:55)

Oh, my God, I don't know. I mean, I don't know if I would have gone there if I would have known any different, but if I was gonna put myself on the same path and be like, okay, you're gonna be there. You're gonna be on the show and you're gonna be here now. If I could have changed my attitude a bit, I just would have been like, don't believe, boys. And just look at this as transactional as it's supposed to be, you know, because he was very like, you know, he always described himself as a romantic and whoever like his main girlfriend was, he would do this kind of like, playing house thing that felt very real to me. So I ended up getting really attached. And, you know, it would have been nice to skip that, but, you know, it was also like, my journey and it's like what I learned from it, and I think that's helpful, hopefully to other people.

A (5:39)

No, yeah, definitely. I mean, absolutely. It's. It's how you learn and how you grow from everything. We've definitely been really vocal about the not so glamorous side of the mansion. You've said it was cult. Like, there was emotional abuse and that you actually had depression and you felt trapped. Was all of that coming from Hef himself or was that the girls? Was that the staff? Was it everything collectively, or where did you feel all of that from?

B (6:02)

Definitely not the staff. It was definitely coming mostly from Hef, also from the other girls. Because before it was just me, Bridget and Kendra, there were like, a rotating cast of, like, six other slots. And nobody got along. It was super competitive. He liked to kind of play two different against each other. So he always felt fought over and he could always get his way. And we couldn't like, you know, quote unquote, unionize against him, you know. And I didn't realize that was going on. You know, I thought he was so great, and I thought it was just the girls being awful. So that was kind of like my perspective at the time. So it was coming from him, coming from the other girls, but also coming from myself. And just like the fear and pressures I had and just the feeling of, you know. Cause I was just like this random girl from Oregon who felt like, okay, I made this decision. I thought it was gonna be this crazy thing I did for a couple while I was in college. And then I'd move on and everybody forget about it. But it became such a defining moment for me that it got to the point where, like, I was afraid to leave because I just felt like I was gonna be judged so heavily for my choices that outside of the mansion. Exactly. So that created a huge cloud of fear, for sure.

A (7:06)

Wow. And did you girls ever talk like,

B (7:09)

this is what's going on?

A (7:10)

Like, so and so said this. Like, did you. You obviously knew there was like, two different groups of women. And so you guys all kind of like buddy buddied against the other group.

B (7:18)

Yeah. You kind of felt like you had to be. Cause you couldn't trust anybody else. And there was a lot of, like, listening outside of doors too.

A (7:24)

Oh, wow.

B (7:25)

Yeah. Like, one time I was in Bridget's room and this other girl that we didn't get along with just came busting into her room screaming at us. Cause she was sitting outside, like, listening.

A (7:33)

Oh, my gosh.

B (7:34)

It was so immature.

A (7:35)

Would you ever go to Hef and be like, hey, here's what, you know, so and so was saying, I don't feel comfortable. Like, what would he do in those situations?

B (7:42)

I definitely went back to him because I felt so bonded with him from almost like the first we were together. And I definitely felt like I could confide in him, but learned not really because he a didn't wanna be bothered with that kind of stuff. But B also liked the drama at the same time. So he would, you know, shoot the messenger if you had something bad to tell him and he wasn't in the mood to hear it, or, you know, he would come to me and say other girls were saying things about me to try and get me to fall in line. And it was just a lot. And I really didn't realize what a big part he played in that until I was ready to leave. And it was kind of like the final straw that broke the camel's back when I was like, oh, shit. He's been, like, engineering this the whole time. Fuck that, right?

A (8:23)

Like, you finally start to see everything so clearly. Did you find that you were mad at yourself for believing all of it?

B (8:30)

I think I was too much in, like, survival mode to be mad at myself. But also, even looking back on it, I'm like, how could I have known? Like, I went into it. I mean, obviously it's a very transactional relationship, but I feel like in that setting, I went into it with the best intentions I could have. And I really liked him and wanted to be there for him in the best way I felt I could be. So I. I don't know. No, I'm not mad at myself.

A (8:56)

No, and you shouldn't. I think I did it the right way. What did you like so much about Hef in the beginning?

B (9:01)

Well, I love that he had this kind of dreamy lifestyle that he'd created, and he would have, like, these classic movie nights on the weekends, and I just loved old Hollywood and old movies. And I just felt like it was so fun to just live in his world. And, you know, I thought he seemed so smart and accomplished, and I really looked up to that. So I was very fascinated by him. And in the beginning, you know, he always would treat like the newest girl in the group really well. Cause that's kind of like your indoctrination period. So if there ever was any conflict, he'd always take my side. And I thought, oh, my God, he sees me. Like, we really click and we really get each other. And then, like, after things became more enmeshed, then, you know, I wasn't always in the right, and I was always the one who was causing a problem. And, oh, my God, he might have a stroke if I bring this petty concern up again. And it was just like, wow.

A (9:50)

I mean, that's like, you know, playbook 101 with these guys as you, like, build them up just to then tear them down. It's so classic.

B (9:59)

It really is.

A (10:00)

There were a lot of rules, right. For you women, what were some of the rules that you thought were just so harsh?

B (10:07)

Well, the most famous one was the nine o' clock curfew. And I knew that existed before I moved in, but at the time it didn't really bother me because I thought, well, I'm just gonna live here for like a year max. And I was really interested in, like, just having the whole experience, enjoying being at the mansion, launching my career, doing things like that. I wasn't concerned about, like, going out late at night on my own or like, dating other guys. So I didn't really care.

A (10:31)

Yeah.

B (10:32)

But obviously, as I'm there for like seven years and haven't been allowed to earn any trust in the relationship, I'm still not allowed to, like, go visit my family for a week or anything like that. Then it starts. Started to get really ridiculous for me.

A (10:44)

I cannot believe that. Yeah, you literally couldn't go and visit your family for two days.

B (10:48)

No, I mean, I could have, like, insisted on it, but I would have felt really scared that, like, he was going to move another girl into my spa or I was going to come back and see, like, my stuff in boxes at the back gate. Because I saw that happen to people when they would leave. Really?

A (11:02)

Yeah.

B (11:02)

In my very early days there, within the first couple months of me living there, there was a girl who went home to visit her family. But he got word that she was, like, seeing another guy. I don't know what the true story was, but he had all her stuff packed in boxes and, like, put out the back gate. And that's scary when you're, like, young and you don't really have anything to fall back on. And this is. You feel like, you know, I moved in there. Cause I thought that was gonna be my safe harbor for a minute, but it was kind of anything but.

A (11:25)

Wow. And so when you first moved in, were you the number one girlfriend right away?

B (11:30)

No, it happened like maybe five or six months after. But it wasn't very long after I moved in, maybe like two or three months, that the other girls kind of started talk. Cause it was really obvious that, like, I enjoyed kind of being there more. Like, I liked to sit at the dinners with him, I liked to watch the movies with him, you know, and we were really bonding. And the other girls didn't want that spot anyway. So they're like, oh, my God, everybody's been talking. I think when Tina moves out, you're gonna be the next main girlfriend. And that was never, like, something I was after when I moved in. But at the time, when you're in something, you're like, whoa, I might as well have, like, the best spot wasn't the best spot, but it's kind of,

A (12:03)

like, so fascinating to me. And so when you first came in the mansion, how were the girls with you? Were they warm and welcoming, or were they kind of bratty?

B (12:14)

At first it felt like some of them were, but that only went so far. Like, when they started to see that Hef would, like, play us against each other in certain ways. Like, I always, you know, enjoyed being there and, you know, watching the movies and showing up for all the things they didn't want to show up for. So then if he wanted to, like, get them to do something, be like, well, why can't you just do this like Holly does? And then that was the end of anybody liking me. Like, forget. They were like, fuck this girl. Yeah.

A (12:39)

Literally. And were Bridget and Kendra there when you got there, or they came in later?

B (12:43)

No, they came after.

A (12:44)

How long after you got there did they come in?

B (12:47)

I think Bridget came in, like, a year after me, and then Kendra came in, like, four years after I moved in.

A (12:51)

And how was Hef finding all of these girls at the time? Like, how did he find you?

B (12:55)

I was invited to a mansion party. I had been in a Hawaiian Tropic contest, and Hef's doctor had gone and said, I want to invite all these girls to a party. I was so excited to go. And then I started getting invited to, like, the Sunday pool parties, which were, like, so. And more intimate. That's how we met. And a lot of the other girls, he would either meet out at nightclubs or testing for Playmates or other girls who would come to, like, the parties. And it was, like, the kind of thing where he didn't really have to do much because women, you know, wanted to come be involved in that world in some way and wanted to meet him because he was this big celebrity, or he would always have a girl in the group who was, like, a recruiter.

A (13:34)

Oh.

B (13:35)

Which is, like, so. Like Ghislaine Maxwell.

A (13:37)

Literally, though. Yeah.

B (13:39)

Wow. So he didn't have to do the work because there would always be somebody who would be like, oh, here, have another drink. Have this, have that. I want to come hang out upstairs, you know.

A (13:46)

Was there ever a drink limit?

B (13:49)

No.

A (13:49)

No. So you guys could just do. Yeah.

B (13:51)

Wasted.

A (13:52)

Waste. He didn't care.

B (13:53)

No.

A (13:54)

Oh, wow.

B (13:55)

He would hand out Quaaludes to people and. Yeah. And at One point I said to him, I'm like, aren't you worried that you're gonna meet some girl at a club club and she's going to be. You don't know what she's had all night and you give her this queued. Cuz I. Have you ever seen Boogie Nights?

A (14:07)

Yes.

B (14:08)

You know that scene where the girl does too much coke and she starts convulsing and they like leave her outside the hotel? Not hotel, outside the hospital. Like that's when I pictured happening. I'm like, aren't you afraid that's going to happen? He goes, well, you know, that is a concern. But he didn't stop us passing out the qu.

A (14:22)

Yeah. He's like, I've got a whole team of people to deal with it.

B (14:25)

Right?

A (14:25)

I don't have to deal with it. Were all of the girls in the house girlfriends? Or were some of them just, I guess, playmates?

B (14:33)

Or all the girls who lived in the house were girlfriends. Girls would stay in the guest house if they were like out testing for Playmate or shooting their pictorials or working for Playboy. And rarely somebody would like get one of the rooms upstairs for a short amount of time if they were like a friend staying or coming for the parties. But if anybody lived there for an extended period of time while I was there, they were a girlfriend.

A (14:53)

They were a girlfriend.

B (14:54)

Foreign.

A (14:59)

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B (18:52)

Yeah. Kind of, like, taking turns. And then the girls who weren't active with him were kind of, like, acting like they were active with the other girls, but not really. It would be, like, kind of silhouetted because you'd have, like, these giant screens of, like. And it would be just girls, like, talking shit with each other. And it was a really weird scene, and nobody liked it, and everybody tried to just get it done as fast as possible. Oh, my.

A (19:16)

It's like, literally, like, okay, your turn for, like, two minutes with him, and then next girl. That is so wild to me. Yeah. And so as the main girlfriend. Are you first? Are you last? Like, what does that look like?

B (19:30)

There wasn't really a order necessarily. Like, it was kind of the same every night, but kind of not.

A (19:36)

Yeah.

B (19:37)

So it was just like.

A (19:38)

Just like, here we go.

B (19:39)

Part of.

A (19:40)

Part of the job. How often were you guys required to have sex with him?

B (19:45)

Well, in the beginning, we would go out twice a week, and it would always be, like, after we would go out. But after we started filming the show, that just stopped, which was amazing because we stopped. Not that we wouldn't ever go out if it was, like, a special occasion, but we stopped those regular club nights where we're going out every Wednesday and Friday because we were so busy with the show. And he loved the show. He was, like, high off the show. It gave him, like, new relevance, like, the ego boost. So he didn't really feel the need to, like, oh, I have to do these compulsive sex nights to make myself feel wanted and relevant, I think.

A (20:17)

Oh, that makes sense.

B (20:19)

Yeah. So it just kind of. And we've talked about this on the podcast, and then we'll have, you know, people, like, chime in and be like, so how did that happen? Was there, like, a discussion to stop having this sex? There was no discussion. It just kind of like, that's how it evolved. I think, like, me, Bridget, and Kendra were so on the same page that we just didn't want to do that anymore. Nobody had to say anything. We were just like, okay, we're not going out anymore, so nobody's gonna initiate.

A (20:41)

God, I thought they had you guys going out on the show. I guess not really.

B (20:45)

No. We did every once in a while, but it was no longer that regular. Like, okay, every Wednesday and Friday, we're going Out.

A (20:52)

And so normal nights, just home at the Mansion, he was just going to bed early, and it was just like.

B (20:58)

Yeah, more or less.

A (20:58)

Yeah. And so even as the main girlfriend, you didn't have to have sex with him on your own or.

B (21:03)

Very rarely. Yeah. It would just be like us watching a movie, or he's doing a crossword puzzle and I'm reading. It was very subur.

A (21:12)

I love it. Yeah. So when the show came, what did you initially think when E approached you guys to do this show?

B (21:19)

Terrified. Why? Well, I'd always wanted to be, like, in front of the camera in some way. Like, I always wanted to, like, host a show or something, but I didn't want to be, like, on blast for my personal life. And I'd been at the Mansion for almost four years by the time they started talking about this. And in some ways, I was presenting as, like, very all in. But in so many ways, I was like, I don't like this. I'm ashamed of this. This was in over my head. I didn't want to do a detail show about it. Like, that was terrifying. But I also kind of felt like I had no choice. Like, unless I want to move out and just be on the streets and not prepared. And I wasn't prepared. So, you know, the show came along, and I'm like, okay, I'm going to, like, hope for the best. And it obviously turned out to be a positive in the grand scheme of things. But I didn't know because this was the era of, like, remember the Surreal Life where it was like, oh, yeah, Verne Troyer was, like, drunk, naked, peeing in a corner, riding around on a scooter. They catch him in a bed, masturbating. Like, it was, like, humiliation ritual, television. So I was terrified. I was like, what are they gonna try to catch us doing? But luckily, it wasn't that. Like, obviously, the first couple seasons of the show, I don't super love, you know, for different reasons, but it wasn't that. So that was.

A (22:29)

What don't you love about it?

B (22:31)

I felt like, pigeonholes. And, you know, for me, I mean, a lot of it was my own fault, too, because in the very beginning, I didn't wanna participate that much. And because I shared a room with Hef, I was kind of safe in that room. Cause they're not gonna, like, bust into hefts, right? Cause he doesn't have to be on camera all the time. So I was very shy about it. And I just felt like they were always, like, cutting to me, like, rolling my eyes when I wasn't and making it look like I was super jealous of all these people. I wasn't. So it's not like really big deal stuff, but it felt like a big deal at the time. And you know, also when you're seeing, like all the negative shit people write about you online. And this was back before anybody really talked about all the shit talking online. So I thought it was just me, Bridget and Kendra that everybody hated. I didn't know it happened to everybody. So I was just like, oh, my God, this is the worst thing ever.

A (23:19)

I know. Well, no, I mean, I relate to that too. Yeah. You'd go in the chat rooms and everyone is just ripping on you. It really takes a toll.

B (23:26)

It really does.

A (23:27)

Yeah, it does. It definitely does. Do you feel like Hef knew the power that he had over the women? Or do you feel like he really thought that he was empowering, like, empowering all the women around him?

B (23:41)

No, I think he knew the power he had. I think he liked to make excuses. And if anybody, like gained anything out of becoming a playmate or being on the show, he's like, well, look, look at this. And it's like, okay. But also, you know, you're. You're not straightforward with even the women who are closest to you. So what is that?

A (23:57)

So when you girls started getting a lot of attention from the show, he never got weird or jealous because he looked at you guys sort of as an extension of himself.

B (24:05)

Yeah. And we were always told we were replaceable, like if we asked for more money and anything like that and.

A (24:11)

Cause you guys had to do your deals through Playboy. It wasn't directly with E. And we

B (24:16)

weren't even under contract until the last season of the show.

A (24:19)

Oh, no way. That's crazy to me.

B (24:22)

Yeah, it's wild. I think we probably signed like a basic on camera release. I'm sure we must have, even though I don't specifically remember it. But we definitely weren't under contract until the last season of the show. And I think only then because E finally assumed that Playboy had us under some kind of contract and they didn't and they freaked out and they were like, you need to lock this down now.

A (24:42)

Well, I'm sure E was paying Playboy a ton of money too. Yeah, that's so crazy. So he quite literally would be like, I'm gonna replace you if you don't do whatever I want you to do. Yeah.

B (24:52)

And they tried to and it just bombed.

A (24:54)

Oh, they did?

B (24:55)

Yeah. There was a season six after that.

A (24:57)

I did Not. Well, there you go. Yeah, I was obsessed with that show and I don't remember that. You're like, told you. Yeah, how interesting. I did not realize that. And you're talking about, like, editing with looks and stuff like that. Would you say that the show was real or were there manipulated storylines? Like, what did filming look like for you guys?

B (25:18)

Definitely manipulated stor storylines. It was definitely trying to clean the whole thing up and present it as like, oh, here's this cute little grandpa and these three girls. And maybe they're doing stuff, maybe not. You can decide for yourself. But it's all very, like, happy and sparkly and perfect. So that was definitely not real. They did try to follow us doing stuff we would really do in our day to day lives. That part was real. And then there were layers of, like, trying to make it look like people are jealous of other people or being mean to other people when we weren't. So that was annoying.

A (25:50)

Would they ever try to pit you, Bridget and Kendra, against each other and create drama with the girls like, you3 specifically?

B (25:56)

Well, specifically me and Kendra, like, it would be like, oh, Kendra's late. And it would cut to me making a look that I wasn't really making in the moment. And that was rough.

A (26:04)

Like, she was like the young wild one. And you're like, I can't deal with her. And then you and Bridget are still really close, right? Do you still talk to Kendra or did you guys have you not spoken in a couple years?

B (26:15)

We haven't spoken in, like 10 years.

A (26:18)

What happened? Why?

B (26:19)

Well, this happened, like, during the spinoff era because those contracts we had to sign in the last season also included that if we did spinoffs with E, that it had to be done with, like, Playboy getting a cut. And the same producers as Girls Next Door. Cause they wanted to build that in. They didn't want any of us, like, getting free and, like, profiting without them. So the same guy who did Girls Next Door was also producing my spinoff and Kendra's spinoff. And just as the years went on, he was getting really crazy with us as far as, like, trying to get us to do certain things and motivate us by making us jealous of each other. Like, he would come to me and be like, okay, that's cute, all that stuff you're doing in Vegas. But, you know, Kendra's on the COVID of all these magazines that people see when they're not in a Vegas hotel room. Or he would go back to Kendra and be like, you know what we need? Plotline for your show. You're not doing anything. But Holly's making all this money out here, so why doesn't she come over and you ask her about what she's doing? And then I'd come over and Kendra would be weird and I'd be like, what's going on? And it was just all this kind of stuff. And then I felt like there was a lot of, you know, Kendra was really wrapped up in, like, the tabloid cycle, so if she needed, like, a feud to be mentioned that week, she would say she was never friends with me. And I called her out on that over text and that didn't go well.

A (27:36)

What did she say?

B (27:36)

Oh, well, she would just be like, I was never friends with Holly and Bridget. And then she would like. And like, I understand sometimes a headline can be untrue. So I wouldn't have freaked out over the headline. But, like, she, like, like, retweeted it. So I reached out to her. I go, oh, hey, what's this about? She goes, oh, don't worry, girl. That's nothing. I go, no, it's not nothing. Like, I think you're being really fake right now. And then she freaked out and we never spoke again.

A (27:56)

Oh, wow. So that was it. And that was 10 years ago, actually.

B (28:01)

Over. It was 2012. Yeah, it was like 14 years ago. Oh, my God, I forget. It's like 2026 already.

A (28:06)

And like, no, never wanting to reach out and be like, this is so dumb. Like, let's just clear the air.

B (28:13)

Not until recently. And I don't know if she. I would reach out because she really seems to be, like, happy not having anything to do with anything from the past. And I think that's great. But, like, I would not continue to hold a grudge at this point.

A (28:28)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that makes sense.

B (28:30)

And also just, like, recognizing how much the producer played a role in that too.

A (28:35)

Well, that's the part that I hear, and it pisses me off, honestly. I mean, he started that whole thing.

B (28:40)

I think so.

A (28:41)

And it's crazy, too, that you guys had to use the same producer and that Playboy got a cut of both of your shows.

B (28:48)

Yeah. And not only that, but Bridget did a season of a show on the Travel Channel with that same producer. And because it was Travel Channel that wasn't under, like, the jurisdiction of that e Contract. But I guess Hef threw a fit to the producer and is like, how can you take one of my girls and not cut me in? So he got, like, allegedly, like, a low key cut from that show too.

A (29:08)

That is crazy to me. I cannot believe that when you saw the show, when, you know, obviously you film a whole season and you think you have an idea of what they're trying to get and what you filmed. But once you see it, I think sometimes it's a completely different story. When you finally saw the first season back, was there anything that stood out? That you were just, like, what? That is what they decided to do there. That just shocked you?

B (29:32)

Nothing. Super shocking. It was just like, all the petty. Like, let's make her roll her eyes. Let's make her jealous. Like, they would bring this woman, Barbie Benton, who was Hef's girlfriend in the 70s, back and try to make it look like I was so jealous. So I really, really tried to turn that around. Cause they would bring her back every season. So I would really try to, like, go out there and, like, try to undercut their agenda in any way I could. Like, just be really conscientious of everything I'm saying in my confessional interview and really, you know, go put my best foot forward with that woman. And. And Bridget and I were rewatching that. We were rewatching, like, the season four of, like, Barbie coming back for, like, the third time. And, like, you know what my favorite thing about this episode is? I'm really proud of how I handled this. Cause I knew what they wanted. And I'm just. I can see in all my confessional cuts, like, I'm not budging. I'm not giving them anything they could even twist or do anything with.

A (30:23)

Yeah, you were smart. I know. That's the thing. As it goes on, you sort of wise up and you're like, I'm gonna pull a fast one on you, actually.

B (30:28)

Yeah. And it's hard. Like, you have to dig your heels in and not even give them the nuance I know that they could run with.

A (30:35)

Did you ever say no to filming anything?

B (30:38)

Probably. I can't think of off the top of my head what that would be.

A (30:42)

But you weren't afraid to kind of, like, stand up for yourself and put your foot down if you needed to?

B (30:46)

I would say in the later seasons, I got a little stronger about what I would and wouldn't say for sure.

A (30:51)

Yeah. Yeah.

B (30:51)

But it took a long time for me to get there.

A (30:54)

How would you say your overall experience with the Girls Next Door was? You happy you did it?

B (30:58)

Oh, yeah. I can complain about little things a lot with that show, but. Or my relationship with the producer. But overall, like, compared to my. When you look at my entire story with Playboy, like, the show saved my life. Like, that gave me an out that gave me an excuse to do other things because he wouldn't let us travel, he wouldn't let us do jobs outside of Playboy. But once we needed storylines for the show, he started to let us do that because he loved the show so much. So the things I was allowed to do because of the show were really empowering and gave me the confidence to finally move on.

A (31:30)

I love that. And, yeah, you talked about how you were afraid to leave the mansion.

B (31:34)

Yeah.

A (31:35)

So how did that kind of start then coming into play? Because it was a little bit of a buildup. Right. For you to finally decide to leave. What was the beginning of that process?

B (31:44)

Like, it was a lot of things. I think the first thing was Hef and I were actually doing in vitro and trying to have a baby, and then that I was told that was not working, like, the sperm wasn't viable, not working. So that was a big thing to me because I'd always wanted to be a mom, and that kind of, like, overrode any other decision I could make. So I really had to start thinking about that. But it was hard because I was so emotionally and mentally just in this place of, like, I have to make this relationship work. I think, you know, the first night I ever went upstairs affected me so much, and it had such a effect on me that it almost made me, like, almost like a Stockholm syndrome type of, like, I need to go all in on this and, like, make something positive out of this, because it was. It was so bad, and I can't believe I made that decision. So it was hard to, like, extricate myself out of that thinking.

A (32:35)

Yeah.

B (32:36)

But I started to feel more and more empowered because I had this job at the studio producing the Playmate photo shoots, and I was having so much fun with them and my girlfriends, and I wanted to be able to go out with my girlfriends and go on girls trips and do all the things that I could never do throughout all of my 20s. So I would say the in vitro thing was the first thing and just feeling more and more depressed. And then Hef started getting really weird and grumpy toward, like, our last year together and just getting, like, extra mean. And looking back, I mean, I talk about this on the podcast, so people, like, write in and comment and say, like, he might have been starting to get dementia, because I think that's a early symptom of dementia as you start getting really mean over nothing. So this was kind of like the straw that was breaking the camel's back. And then I finally decided I'd had enough.

A (33:21)

What kind of stuff would he say to you? Because, I mean, in addition to him being mean, I think you've said that he was emotionally abusive, too, right?

B (33:27)

For sure.

A (33:27)

What would he say to you?

B (33:29)

Well, in the end, I remember specifically, there were some things, like, I was talking to him about a photographer at the studio wanted to work more in the video department. And we were kind of discussing that, and I was like, well, I could help a little bit here. And he just got really loud at the dinner table in front of everybody, was like, you think you could do that? How stupid. And just, like, embarrassing me and, like, telling me how stupid I am, and how can I think I can do that? And that was super humiliating and embarrassing. And. And then there was this time when I had to coordinate five different centerfold shoots in the same week, which is, like, not the pace we usually do things at. At all. So I was, like, really proud of myself for, like, putting this all together, because we were doing it for the show. We were doing a contest of, like, these five women are centerfolds, and one is going to be picked to be, like, this special in this special issue. And then at the last minute, after I had everything in place, and we're, like, in the midst of it and half walks in, he's like, well, we have to film this thing with Kendra, so you need to, like, switch all of that. And I was like. I just kind of rolled my eyes and was like, okay, we always have to switch stuff for her. And he flipped out on me, called me a cunt. I was like, what the fuck? Like, I'm, like, running your shit at the studio over here and, like, doing a good job, and this is what I get.

A (34:39)

Wow. No, that's crazy. Yeah. And then you got demoted from girlfriend number one right before you moved out, or.

B (34:45)

No, I left. But what I did was I broke up with him, but I moved down the hall just so I could finish, like, filming the scenes I needed to do for the show and pack up my stuff and kind of, like, buying myself a little bit of time because I was so ingrained there in every way. I wasn't one of those girls who, like, had a secret apartment off to the side I could go to. Like, I really. Some girls did. I really had to, like, get my shit together, though. So I just, like, was like, okay, can I, like, stay in bedroom five?

A (35:10)

And he let you?

B (35:11)

Yeah, well, he wasn't really taking it seriously that I wanted to leave he kept trying to get me back. He would, like, leave his will out on the bed on my side so I could see how much money was gonna be left for me when, you know, if I stayed.

A (35:22)

Trying to entice you to stay.

B (35:24)

Yeah. Or after Kendra and I announced we were leaving. It was, like, a big trend for, like, tabloidy outlets to write, like, oh, these girls just aren't gonna be famous anymore. We talked to this photographer who said they never shoot the them. So Hef would, like, get like, all this stuff, like, printed out because he had, like, a clipping service every morning. He'd go down. Anything in the news about him or the girls, he'd see. So anything derogatory about me leaving, he would, like, leave out. So I would see, like, I think, hoping I would change my mind. Like, oh, my God, I can't be irrelevant. I must stay. Yeah.

A (35:53)

Like, your life is gonna be over.

B (35:54)

Yeah. It was so weird.

A (35:56)

Was there any part of you that felt like, yeah, maybe if I do leave, like, my career is over? Like, were you nervous at all?

B (36:02)

I was very nervous. I knew I was gonna have to go into survival mode right away. I knew I wasn't gonna be able to take a moment to breathe. I knew I could probably have a chance at not having anything. There were no guarantees outside of there. Cause the whole time we were on the show, we weren't really allowed to work with any outside PR or agents or anything like that. So that was a huge possibility. But I just had to do it, because when I'm done with something, emotionally, I'm really done.

A (36:26)

Yeah.

B (36:27)

Like, once I decide I'm done, like, there's no nothing left.

A (36:29)

No turning back. So it's move out day. How is Hef? How are the girls? Are they seeing Y off? Are they, like, good luck out there

B (36:38)

in the real world?

A (36:39)

Or were they kind of just like, bye, get out of here?

B (36:42)

Well, the three of us had all kind of, like, fallen apart at the same time. Like, Kendra had already met the man she would go on to marry, and she was planning a spin off. Everybody knew she was leaving. Bridget was leaving to shoot her travel show. I don't know if she. You know, we talk about it today, and she still feels like she didn't really have a chance to, like, negotiate her exit. It was just. She was kind of swept up in everybody else leaving, but she at least had physically left to do the show. And, yeah, it was really awkward. It was awkward, you know, going back to the dinners, like, for a while, I would still show up to dinner as I was living there. But I felt weird. I felt like all his friends were looking at me weird now. And I realized, you know what? I want him to meet somebody and move on. I'm not gonna take up this chair. Like, I'm gonna peace out. So it was kind of like an awkward exit. But.

A (37:35)

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B (42:17)

No, he always trying to like get me to come back or guilt trip me into staying. And it just got to the point where I just didn't want to talk to him anymore and I'm like, I just have to tiptoe out of here in the easiest way I can.

A (42:27)

Did he contact you after you left?

B (42:29)

Yeah, he would always stay in touch, which didn't seem weird because he was Always very good about staying in touch with most of his own. Like, they would still come up to parties and things like that. And we were still involved via the show because, like I said, the producer of Girls Next Door would produce my spin off, so there would be, like, crossover moments that we would film. And he would send me letters if he was ever, like, approving or disapproving of anything I was doing. And we'd send it to the other girls, too. In fact, like, Bridget was going through her old scrapbook stuff for our podcast, and she found she's like, oh, my God, this is so creepy. I have a letter from Hef I never opened. Oh, wow. Yeah. So she opened it, and it said, said something about him being disapproving of, like, oh, I would love to come to your housewarming party, but it's very difficult for me because you've been so derogatory toward my new girlfriends in the press. And I don't even think she really had been. I think it was just like, Girls Next Door. Season six had come out at the time, and instead of doing any unique ideas, they were just kind of, like, using old ideas that we'd given in pitch meetings but hadn't got around to. And I think we had said something in the media and about that. I don't know exactly what Bridget said, but, like, I know I had said something like, oh, somebody asked me about the season, I go, I think it would be better if they focus, like, on the new girls and, like, what made them unique rather than, like, rehashing our old plot lines. But even something tiny like that, Hef would take such offense at that because he was used to, like, the cult, like, fawning that everybody in his community does so they can, like, stay on the party list and still get all this stuff. And so even, like, the tiniest things would be offensive to him. And it just. Just was like, why am I even bothering?

A (44:03)

Yeah, and you just hold them over your head. So. Move out day. Where did you go? What did you have your new place? How did you find your new place? What did life look like those first couple of months?

B (44:14)

Before I had broken up with Hef, I had just put a down payment on an investment condo in Santa Monica, and it happened to be close to the studio. That was one of the reasons I picked it. I thought I was going to continue working at the Playboy studio, and it's just kind of that pride of ownership of, like, oh, I have that one down the street. But I was like, shit, I have to move into the this place. But I didn't even end up staying there because I bounced straight into, like a really toxic relationship in Vegas. Cause I'd been going out to Vegas for months before because I was supposed to do a show at mgm and I was interviewing for that. And I'd met this guy out there and he was really like, insisting I move in with him right away, which I knew wasn't a good idea. But I was like, well, I am moving to Vegas anyway. So kind of like rationalized it. So I went straight into that relationship, which was a nightmare. And it mirrored a lot of the similar dynamics from Hef's relationship. But luckily I was in and out of that within four months.

A (45:06)

And.

B (45:08)

And then I got Dancing with the Stars right after that. And I'd wanted to do Dancing with the Stars so bad. And they'd always said no to me because they're like, I don't know. I don't know if middle America's gonna love a girl who's dating an 80 year old. But I was so persistent that they had somebody in season eight get injured and they were like, like, who's desperate enough to come in last minute? I know. So they called me and I was so excited to do it. I. So you did Dancing with Stars too, right? Oh my God, it's so fun. Such a great experience.

A (45:34)

How far did you get?

B (45:35)

Oh, I was only there a month. Like four weeks.

A (45:37)

Yeah. Yeah, me too.

B (45:38)

But it. But I love.

A (45:40)

So fun.

B (45:40)

Yeah. I bought all my costumes so I could keep all my costumes.

A (45:43)

That was cool.

B (45:43)

That was one of the big reasons I wanted to do it. I love the costumes. And as I was on the show, I booked a deal to do the show. I ended up. So I was able to like announce it on Dancing with the Stars, which was huge. Cause it had such a big audience back then. So it was just like this amazing chain of events. And I was able to get back on my feet and started doing my own spinoff show. And it was just such a great, fun era for me. And I feel really lucky that I was able to do that and able to turn the exposure I had from girls Next Door into something. Cause it was definitely not guaranteed. Like, I had no support from that end.

A (46:14)

No. So that's amazing, honestly, how everything just started clicking for you. And I know you said you met your ex, that you dated for four months pretty immediately. Was he the first guy that you dated or did you go on a few dates? Were you nervous to date right away? Were you excited? Were you like, finally someone my age that I'm attracted to.

B (46:31)

Yeah, well, he was. I didn't date between Hef and him. I went straight to him. And then when we broke up, I was a little bit nervous to like get back on the scene. Cause I'm like, what if, you know, how are guys gonna react to me? You know, being that I've had such a weird public relationship. But I didn't need to be scared. It was fine. Everything was like, I had like three or four years. I was single before I met my ex husband who I went on to be married to and was with for like seven years. So.

A (46:57)

And that's who you have your two kids with, right?

B (46:59)

Yes. Yeah.

A (47:00)

Yep. And you have boy and girl?

B (47:01)

Yeah, a 13 year old girl and a 9 year old boy.

A (47:03)

That's so fun. And so you guys are. You're both back and forth between LA and Vegas. Yeah. So it seems like you guys have a pretty good co parenting relationship.

B (47:12)

Yes, it's very hectic, but he's an amazing dad, so. So it works out. People ask me for co parenting advice all the time and I'm like, sadly I don't have any. Cause I'm lucky enough to have somebody else who wants what's best for the kids. And I feel so bad when people have to deal with somebody who doesn't want that or wants to use the kids as like a bargaining tool.

A (47:31)

Yeah.

B (47:31)

So sadly, I don't have any advice. Cause I'm just lucky.

A (47:34)

But no, that's great. Yeah, that's great. And your kids know about your playboy past? I'm assuming they're a little bit older now.

B (47:39)

My daughter knows something, but she'll kind of tease me about it in a way that she thinks is funny. So that's very much a relief to me because I would hate for somebody to bring it up to her and have it be something that she needs to feel bad about. Right, so, so far so good. I think they're too young to know any of the gritty details, but obviously I've been very public about everything, so I would always frame it in a way of like, what can they learn from this?

A (48:04)

Yeah, exactly. Will you sit her down as she gets a little bit older and have a real conversation with her? Or do you feel like maybe her just sort of hearing rumblings of it out in the real world is okay?

B (48:15)

I think at some point there'll probably be an in depth conversation, but it's very much something I'm gonna have to play by ear. I just feel like, that's the way it is with parenting. Like, you can read all the books you want. Like, people always ask me, like, how are you gonna tell your kids about this? I'm like, I don't know. Because every phase is like a new phase, and you forget about the last phase. Like, I couldn't tell you what the milestones of, like, a baby to a one year old are now. They were so important at the time, but then you're so in all in on what the next phase is that you forget about it. And also, like, as you know, I don't know, I kind of, like, expected my kids to be a certain way because of the way I am, which I don't know why, because I'm nothing like my parents. But you're watching these souls just, like, emerge year after year, and you're learning who they are, and it's so interesting. So everything about parenting is play it by ear, no matter how prepared you try to be.

A (49:07)

Totally.

B (49:08)

To be continued.

A (49:09)

And they're so different too, right? That, like, even if you think with your first you're like, cool, I've got the parenting thing down, it's like, well, no, not for the second, because they are completely different people.

B (49:17)

So different.

A (49:18)

Yeah, I know. Parenting is a wild ride. Well, after you got a divorce, you met Zach, who you dated on and off for five, six years.

B (49:24)

Six years.

A (49:25)

Six years.

B (49:26)

It was a nightmare.

A (49:27)

Well, right. And so you openly said that he cheated on you.

B (49:29)

Oh, my God, it was so bad.

A (49:31)

How did you find out?

B (49:32)

He cheated on me with 12 different people at least. Those are the only ones I know of that had, like, solid receipts. So I'm sure there's so many more, but we had already broken up, so I'm very grateful that I found all this out once I was no longer emotionally in, because I think it would have been a lot more devastating had I found it out in the midst of the relationship. But I had broken up with him. And then I had gone out to dinner with my friends, and I hopped in an Uber home, and I had this amazing driver. She was super chatty, and she's like, oh, I recognize you. You're the first person I recognized in my car. Except I did have this girl in my car who was saying she was getting dropped off at the guy's house from Ghost Hunters. And his show isn't called Ghost Hunters, it's called something else. But I knew who she meant. And I was like, oh, really? How long ago was this? And she goes, oh, it was da da, da. She gave me the dates, and she's like. And I. And here, like, his neighborhood was really nice, so I took a video of it. So she shows me, like, the video. The video of, like, his street. So I know she's not lying. So I texted him, and I'm like, fuck you. I found all this out, and then I was just in a mood. And there was a trend on TikTok at the time where it's like, I forget how it went, but it was like. Like, my fantasy is this. And I was like, my fantasy is every girl my most recent ex has cheated on me with just tells me what's up in the comments. Yes. And then they start weighing in. I start connecting with these people. And the 12, I mean, there were more people than 12 that reached out, but the 12 I'm counting had very solid receipts. So this was just insanity. Like, this guy has a dating app addiction. Like, it's a problem.

A (51:00)

So he was meeting these girls on dating apps.

B (51:02)

Dating apps. And in his DMs, just people who are, like, fans of his show and stuff. Or people who. He has, like, a haunted museum in Vegas, and people would come to the museum who are fans he meets.

A (51:10)

So he's hooking up with fans?

B (51:12)

Yeah, he has, like, a house next door, the museum. He takes people to it. So gross.

A (51:17)

So this was going on your whole relationship?

B (51:19)

Pretty much. Like, I have yet to hear from somebody who was with him in, like, our first year and a half. So there might have been, like, a monogamous stretch maybe, but nightmare.

A (51:30)

Oh. So what did you think when all these women were coming forward?

B (51:34)

It's very hurtful, but. But like I said, I was at least out of the relationship and not, like, emotionally attached. But I think the most hurtful part was not necessarily him cheating. Like, obviously that's a deal breaker. But he would talk about me to some of these women, and I'm like, that's really disgusting. That's where, like, you lose all sympathy from me. I have no good memories of you ever. You're disgusting.

A (51:54)

Yeah, you're dead to me now. Yeah, you're just an asshole at this point. Oh, I hate that. What type of guys would you say you attracted in the past? Past? Was there a common theme with these men?

B (52:05)

The bad ones. And not all of them were bad, but, like, the bad ones were, like, super narcissistic. I think I'm attracted to people who are, like, really successful, creative, create their own worlds. But some of those guys can also be, like, so full of themselves. And when they create their own worlds. It's not necessarily about creativity or their business. It's about truly their whole world. And they want to control everyone around them.

A (52:27)

So did you find that they were controlling of you too, some of these guys? Like Zach, for example? Was he controlling?

B (52:33)

He actually was not. See, I had gone through, like, all these guys and thought I had learned my lesson. And he was always, like, super supportive of, like, anything I wanted to do, career wise. He was always very complimentary, never said anything negative to me because those were my deal breakers. Like, I didn't want anybody who was verbally abusive. So, like, at the first sign of that, I'm out. I didn't want anybody who, like, tried to control where I would go and who I would go with.

A (52:58)

Right.

B (52:58)

Like, first sign of that mansion.

A (53:00)

Those were deal breakers for you? Yeah.

B (53:01)

So first sign of that out, and it's almost like he magically knew what my deal breakers were and was the opposite of that, but then was like, crazy cheating behind my back.

A (53:08)

So wild. What do you have any other non negotiables moving forward? Like, what do you look for now? A guy?

B (53:14)

I have, like, a short list of things I want. I want somebody who's a good person, obviously, and super in love with me. And even though that's the most important thing, it's the last thing we learn about somebody, you know, because you really have to know somebody for a while to even know that. I want somebody who lives in Vegas because I don't want to move. And he has to be, like, really ambitious and motivated and successful and somebody who, like, inspires me because I'm that way.

A (53:39)

So. Yeah, I love that. And I think you've said that moving forward, you want to keep your dating life private. Is that right?

B (53:45)

Not necessarily permanently, but I think in the beginning, like, I just started seeing this guy, like, a couple, like, less than two months ago, and, like, I would not, like, blast him because it's just so nice to get to know somebody without the Internet weighing in.

A (53:58)

I know, I know. Is he in the public eye or is he annoying?

B (54:01)

Not really. Not really.

A (54:03)

Is that. Do you care about that?

B (54:04)

No, not at all.

A (54:05)

Yeah. Either way, you're like, whatever. What's different about him maybe than some of the guys you've dated in the past?

B (54:11)

I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop because so far everything's good. So I'm like, okay, what's the catch? So we'll see. But he's very, like, thinking like that. That's true.

A (54:19)

Yeah.

B (54:20)

So far. Like, he's very respectful and very, like, cool around all my friends, and they all like him.

A (54:27)

I think friends are always a good indication in the beginning.

B (54:29)

Yeah, they do. And hasn't met all my friends yet, but. And he's very good at, like, making plans and being clear about plans. If he needs to cancel for whatever reason, he does it a long time in advance. Like, very, like, I love that. I hate. I hate not knowing, you know, somebody's schedule or not playing it by ear to the last minute. Like, that means you're cheating. It means you're trying to see who can come over the fastest.

A (54:51)

Yeah, no, you know, yeah, we love communication. Yeah. That's all. We don't require a lot. That's not bad. For sure. What does happiness look like to you today?

B (55:00)

Oh, my God. You know, I've been really happy lately. I was just telling one of my friends, like, I feel like I'm out of fight or flight for the first time in my adult life. I think part of it is, like, my new podcast I'm working on where I'm interviewing people. It's called you'd wish, and I love it. So much fun. And, you know, just where I'm at with, like, my family and friends and. And, you know, you got a new

A (55:20)

guy in your life. Yeah. Like, everything's clicking good. I love that. Okay, tell me about the new podcast. So you just. You just launched it?

B (55:27)

Yeah, as we're recording. It came out a day ago. It's called you'd wish. And I just interview people I'm fascinated with, and I try to bend the interview with a slant toward, like, manifestation, reinvention, pivoting, like, anything from that person's life and creativity that the viewer can have a takeaway from that.

A (55:44)

Yeah. Will you ever do solo episodes or will it always be a guest?

B (55:48)

Probably always a guest. I don't know if I really have it in me to do a solo episode. Like, I. I admire people like you and who can do it. I. I think if I didn't have a guest, it would probably be more like a regular co host where you talk about, like, Hot Topics or something. But I'm loving doing the guest thing so far.

A (56:02)

I think you would kill a solo episode.

B (56:04)

Really?

A (56:05)

Yeah, I do. I would listen to it, I think. Yeah, no, I think you would be great at a solo.

B (56:09)

You know what? I think I run out because I have, like, the Rewatch podcast with Bridget. Then we have a Patreon, which I have to funnel a lot of my personal stuff into. So I think it's like, oh, what do I talk about now that I haven't already, like, led about on TikTok or whatever?

A (56:23)

What made you want to do another podcast?

B (56:25)

Just because I knew, like, girls next level was coming to an end. Because eventually we'll run out of episodes. We still have, like, another year and a half, but. And I do love podcasting so much. And then I just started thinking about how fun would it be to sit down with people that I'm inspired by or people I think are interesting. And so far, I'm loving it so, so much.

A (56:41)

Who's your dream guest?

B (56:43)

Oh, like Ann Margaret. I would love to interview her.

A (56:47)

Yeah.

B (56:47)

For Steve Wynn.

A (56:49)

Yeah. Oh, I'm sure he would.

B (56:50)

Come on.

A (56:50)

Right.

B (56:51)

Well, he's, like, in Florida now, and I'd probably have to, like, I don't

A (56:54)

know, gotta lure him in something. Yeah. I'm excited for you.

B (56:58)

Thank you. All right.

A (56:59)

I want to play a game with you.

B (57:00)

Yeah.

A (57:01)

Okay. It's hot. Or not, but it's the Playboy edition. Of course, so I'm just gonna give you something in the Playboy world. You tell me if you think it's hot. Not. Okay. The Playboy bunny costume. Hot.

B (57:10)

I love it so much. I have three of my own. I just think they're so iconic. And when I was there, it was, like, such an honor to get to wear one because they only had so many that were, like, official, like, perfectly, like, customade bunny costumes. Not, like, the cheap ones you could buy online now.

A (57:25)

Right.

B (57:25)

So. And you weren't supposed to keep them. But, you know, because I had a little nepotism on my side, I got to keep mine, so.

A (57:31)

I love that.

B (57:32)

Definitely hot. Yeah.

A (57:33)

Oh, that's very cool. Okay. The Midsummer night's dream party. Hot.

B (57:37)

It was the first party I ever went to, and it was such a cool party at the time. Like, I know that was, like, a little bit before your time, but those were, like. Like in 2000, when I went to my first one, those were, like, the cool, exclusive parties in LA to get to go to when I was.

A (57:49)

Oh, I remember hearing about them.

B (57:51)

Yeah.

A (57:51)

They were a big deal. Very cool. Okay. The grotto.

B (57:55)

That could go either way. Like, as a structure. I think it's so cool and creative and beautiful, but after a long night, you probably want to avoid.

A (58:04)

So gross to me. Like, people literally are just in there having sex.

B (58:07)

Yeah. Which I wouldn't really see too much of. I would hear about it because this would be going on mostly, like, after Hef and us were already done with the party. This would be like a late night thing. And I always tell this because people are surprised to hear it, but people would be very well behaved at the parties in front of Hef because they always want to be invited back. So you wouldn't really see, like, the debauchery over by our table or early on in the night. You just hear about it later.

A (58:29)

Oh, that's interesting. That makes sense, though.

B (58:32)

Yeah. Wow.

A (58:33)

Okay. Hef's scrapbooks.

B (58:35)

Oh, I'm gonna say not right now. Cause there's a huge controversy where, like, he has all these nudes of, like, all kinds of women who've gone upstairs and he's taking pictures on his digital camera. They don't know they're in there with their names in the caption. So there's like, this whole battle going on right now to, like, not have those scrapbooks digitized and not have them put in a public library. You know, it's like a lot of revenge porn on ice. So I would say not. Okay.

A (58:59)

Yeah. Good answer. The Girls Next Door theme song. Do you remember it?

B (59:05)

Do I remember it?

A (59:06)

You're like, no rain in my mind.

B (59:07)

Totally. I. Yeah. It's not like my favorite thing because it's kind of jarring when I hear it. Sometimes it's like. But I mean, people seem to love it, and it's kind of a cute take on a classic song applied to the show. So I'd give it a hot. Even though for me, when I hear it, it's kind of like a knot. I don't know why, because it's not like I hate the show, but for some reason, hearing that, I'm just like, eh. Or they'll play, like, a different version of it on At Carbone. It's on their playlist. And I always get, like, a little bit embarrassed when it comes on. And, like, I hope nobody's looking at me and thinking, this is my song.

A (59:35)

No, I know. Back to that time, too.

B (59:38)

Yeah.

A (59:39)

Actors hitting on Playmates and or girlfriends at the Playboy parties. Did that happen a lot?

B (59:45)

It happened a lot. I would say as long as it's not a creep if it's somebody the girl likes back. Hot. Because it's exciting at the time when you're, like, young and you're new to Hollywood and some, like, really good looking actor, like, wants to, like, reach out and hold your hand or whatever they want to do.

A (60:01)

And it's just like, if you were a girlfriend, how would that go down with Hef? Like, it obviously had to be kind

B (60:06)

of on the DL Nobody would do it because we were. All. Had to be, like, at his table or, like, dancing around him. So unless a girl was, like, sneaking off on the side and they weren't aware, nobody would do that. But.

A (60:16)

Yeah, but the Playmates, though.

B (60:18)

Oh, yeah. They were meeting, like, actors all the time. Yeah.

A (60:21)

Okay. Girls trips. Because you guys had to do them on Girls Next Door, right?

B (60:25)

Obsessed. Like, more than hot. Like, hot times 100. Like, I love a girls trip. I love a girls day. Like, those are my favorite memories from Girls Next Door is when we got to go on just a girls trip. It's my favorite thing.

A (60:36)

That's so fun. You guys would go to Vegas a lot, right?

B (60:38)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we would go to Vegas or, like, the Madonna Inn or, like, snowboarding or something.

A (60:43)

So fun. That's so fun. Well, Holly, you're the best. This was so fun.

B (60:46)

Thank you so much. You have to come on my pod. Like, next time you're in Vegas.

A (60:49)

I will. I will let you know when I'm in Vegas. And. Yeah, okay. So your pod comes out every Tuesday.

B (60:52)

No. What? Thursday.

A (60:53)

Thursday. Thursday, girl. It's called you wish. Yes. And then your podcast with Bridget. When can people listen to that?

B (60:59)

It's called Girls Next level Everywhere. You get your podcast, and it comes out Monday morning.

A (61:04)

Amazing.

B (61:10)

Yeah, I got all the power.

A (61:12)

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B (61:14)

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