"Everyone Needs to Stop Making So Much Stuff": Tibi Founder Amy Smilovic on Finding and Refining Personal Style

Summary

Episode Summary: "Everyone Needs to Stop Making So Much Stuff": Tibi Founder Amy Smilovic on Finding and Refining Personal Style

Release Date: November 25, 2024
Podcast: Let's Get Dressed
Host: Liv Perez
Guest: Amy Smilovic, Founder and Creative Director of Tibi

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Introduction to the Episode

In the November 25, 2024 episode of Let's Get Dressed, host Liv Perez welcomes fashion luminary Amy Smilovic, the founder and creative director of the renowned women's wear brand Tibi. The episode delves deep into Amy's philosophy on personal style, effective wardrobe organization, and her upcoming book, Creative Pragmatist Volume Two.

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Defining Success and Independence in Fashion

Timestamp [07:01]:
Amy shares her evolved perspective on what "making it" means in the fashion industry. She emphasizes the importance of independence, working with people she loves, and maintaining a work-life balance.

"We determined that it would mean that we would only work with people that we loved... have time for family and a life and enjoy what we were doing every single day."

Amy recounts how the COVID-19 pandemic forced her and her team to redefine success. Instead of chasing lofty financial goals, they focused on sustaining their brand without external investment, ensuring they retained creative and operational control.

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Organizing Your Closet: Without Fails, In & Outs, Had to Haves

Timestamp [26:34]:
Amy introduces her signature method of categorizing a wardrobe into three distinct sections:

1. Without Fails: Fundamental pieces that align with your core style adjectives. These are the staples that make up about 50-60% of the wardrobe.
2. In & Outs: Items that you're emotionally drawn to and can refresh your look without overpowering your fundamental style.
3. Had to Haves: Unique, emotionally significant pieces that may not fit into everyday wear but hold personal value or artistic appeal.

"Once you understand your adjectives, I can look at something from Chloe and say, oh, that's beautiful. But maybe there's one bit of softness that is just too feminine for me, and I can make one outfit for it, but I'm not going to make multiple outfits."

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Dressing by Mood and Capsule Packing

Timestamp [13:23] - [20:19]:
Liv and Amy explore the concept of dressing by mood versus traditional outfit packing. Amy advocates for selecting key pieces that can be mixed and matched to create multiple looks, enhancing versatility without cluttering the suitcase.

"It's a great way to pack. You get way more out of your suitcase."

Amy provides a practical example of how to build outfits around a single statement piece, ensuring each combination aligns with different moods or occasions. This approach not only maximizes outfit options but also maintains a cohesive personal style.

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The Creative Pragmatist: Balancing Creativity and Practicality

Timestamp [21:06] - [22:15]:
Amy defines a "Creative Pragmatist" as someone who comfortably navigates the spectrum between high creativity and practicality. This balance allows for versatile styling without sacrificing personal identity.

"It's someone who really defines themselves as chill, modern, and classic. And it's always on their body all at once in some way."

Using Tamu McPherson as an example, Amy illustrates how maintaining consistent style adjectives—chill, modern, classic—allows for both creative expression and functional dressing.

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Finding Your Three Personal Style Words

Timestamp [23:46] - [26:28]:
Amy emphasizes the importance of distilling personal style into three core adjectives. These words serve as guiding principles for wardrobe selection and outfit creation.

"It's really about thinking of them as first principles... that it can't be drilled any deeper."

She advises listeners to choose adjectives that are broad yet descriptive, avoiding mere synonyms to ensure each word adds distinct value to their style framework.

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Advice for Those with Overwhelmed Closets

Timestamp [35:29] - [38:13]:
Amy addresses common challenges faced by individuals with cluttered wardrobes. She advocates for establishing a strong foundational wardrobe with versatile, neutral pieces before incorporating trend-driven items.

"What most people are struggling with is they've got so much life happening in their closet that they're really just looking to create a stronger through line so that they can be more experimental with purpose."

By focusing on investment pieces that align with personal style adjectives, individuals can streamline their closets and make intentional fashion choices.

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Upcoming Book: Creative Pragmatist Volume Two

Timestamp [34:03] - [34:23]:
Amy announces the forthcoming release of Creative Pragmatist Volume Two, which promises to delve deeper into the principles outlined in her first book. This sequel aims to provide enhanced insights and refined strategies for cultivating a purposeful and stylish wardrobe.

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Key Tips: One Ton or None

Timestamp [38:13] - [41:05]:
Amy introduces the "One Ton or None" philosophy, a strategy for achieving visual balance and harmony in outfits. This approach ensures that the eye focuses on a single element, preventing the outfit from feeling cluttered or disjointed.

"When you put on a top from Loewe and you can put it with your favorite pair of pleated nylon trouser pants... those fundamentals keep you grounded."

She contrasts this with over-the-top runway looks, explaining how too many focal points can disrupt the overall aesthetic and personal comfort.

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Final Thoughts: Reducing Overproduction in Fashion

Timestamp [41:41] - [42:53]:
In her concluding remarks, Amy passionately calls for the fashion industry to minimize unnecessary production. She advocates for brands to focus on creating fewer, high-quality pieces that resonate with their core style adjectives rather than diversifying excessively.

"Everyone needs to stop making so much shit. Just stop it."

Amy stresses the importance of intentional design and production, both for consumer satisfaction and environmental sustainability.

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Conclusion

Liv Perez wraps up the episode by expressing gratitude for Amy's insightful contributions, highlighting how her principles have transformed her own approach to fashion. Amy's emphasis on intentional wardrobe curation, personal style definition, and sustainable fashion practices offers listeners actionable strategies to refine their own style and make meaningful choices in their fashion journeys.

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Notable Quotes:

• Amy Smilovic ([07:01]):
  "We determined that it would mean that we would only work with people that we loved... have time for family and a life and enjoy what we were doing every single day."

• Amy Smilovic ([26:34]):
  "Once you understand your adjectives, I can look at something from Chloe and say, oh, that's beautiful. But maybe there's one bit of softness that is just too feminine for me, and I can make one outfit for it, but I'm not going to make multiple outfits."

• Amy Smilovic ([21:06]):
  "It's someone who really defines themselves as chill, modern, and classic. And it's always on their body all at once in some way."

• Amy Smilovic ([38:16]):
  "One Ton or None came about because I really try and help people figure out where the antsiness comes from when you're getting dressed."

• Amy Smilovic ([41:41]):
  "Everyone needs to stop making so much shit. Just stop it."

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This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of building a personal wardrobe that is both stylish and functional. Amy Smilovic's expertise provides listeners with valuable frameworks to enhance their fashion choices, fostering a more intentional and satisfying relationship with their clothing.

Transcript

[Amy Smilovic]

The following podcast is a Dear Media Production.

[Liv Perez]

Hi guys. Welcome back to another episode of let's Get Dressed. It's your host, Liv Perez. Happy Thanksgiving Week. I am thrilled that we're here. For those of you who don't know, Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday, I love it so much. I celebrate every year at my mom's house and last year I was away for a wedding. I got no Thanksgiving food, no Thanksgiving vibes. So I'm really looking forward to being back at my mom's this year. My mom lives at the beach in Malibu, so it's a very untraditional Thanksgiving. Like there's no snow, there's no cozy bundling up in layers. We're like down by the water, hanging out on the beach, and it's usually very, very sunny. However, doing a Thanksgiving on the east coast is definitely on my bucket list. I have never done it actually. Even more specific, doing the Macy's Day Parade. Like being at someone's house on Fifth Avenue and being able to look over the parade. That's on my bucket list. I would love to do that. I've been watching the parade since I was a kid. I would like sit on the couch in the morning and it was a tradition for me, so maybe one day I'll do that. But for now, on Thursday, you'll find me by the beach with my fam eating my mom's famous banana Oreo cream pie, which I'm counting down the days until I get. It's a holiday week, which means it's the perfect time to be catching up on pods. So if you've missed some of the amazing episodes we've been doing lately, make sure you go check the those out. And this week's episode is with someone who I love to follow and have really learned so much from. Her name is Amy Smilovic, and she is what I like to call a fashion mathematician of sorts. Through her 27 years as a fashion designer, founder, and creative director of the women's wear brand Tibby, I think she's built a foolproof formula for getting dressed every day through what she's coined the Tibictionary. She's broken down our closets into three parts without fails, ins and outs, and had to haves all things she'll go through in today's episode in an effort to categorize our closets in a pragmatic way that makes dressing seamless. In today's episode, we chat through how organizing your closet by mood might be most effective. We talk about the process of finding those Three personal style words and how important that is, and the upcoming release of volume two of her styling book, the Creative Pragmatist. I know you guys are gonna love the episode. Make sure you take notes. Let's go get dressed with Amy Smil. Hey, Amy. Welcome to the pod.

[Amy Smilovic]

Thank you.

[Liv Perez]

You've been a highly requested guest.

[Amy Smilovic]

That's amazing.

[Liv Perez]

Highly requested. Like, people are, my mom, my sister. You're like, my entire family just jumped in there and was like, love her.

[Amy Smilovic]

She's amazing.

[Liv Perez]

You know what? My family does that too. No shame. No shame.

[Amy Smilovic]

Do what you got to do.

[Liv Perez]

Yeah. It's like, I have four sisters. It's like, give me some engagement, guys. Your family lives here?

[Amy Smilovic]

Georgia.

[Liv Perez]

Oh. Oh, my God. That's amazing. I didn't know that you're from there.

[Amy Smilovic]

Yeah. St. Simon's Island. Little island, 12 miles long.

[Liv Perez]

Beautiful.

[Amy Smilovic]

Yeah, it was.

[Liv Perez]

I have been on a kick of wanting to explore more of America and parts that I have not seen and parts that are very underrated, and I feel like Georgia is a place I would love to spend some time.

[Amy Smilovic]

I love Georgia. I love it. And our team members from New York, like, we just did a big shoot down there. Everyone had hush puppies and grits, and everyone was so friendly. It was amazing.

[Liv Perez]

I went down to Savannah for a SCAD jury panel when I was in college, and it was unbelievable. Yeah, there was something.

[Amy Smilovic]

Savannah's just off the rockers, like, insane.

[Liv Perez]

It's unbelievable.

[Amy Smilovic]

Yeah.

[Liv Perez]

I don't know how to encourage people to, like, make it a destination, like a stop on the way somewhere, but I spent four days there and truly was inspired by the people, the design, the art, obviously, there with SCAD being there. But it was such a wonderful community.

[Amy Smilovic]

And Paula Wallace's story starting SCAD is, I think, one of the most inspiring entrepreneurial stories out there.

[Liv Perez]

I don't know it. Could you share?

[Amy Smilovic]

Yeah, she. So, Paula. And Paula, if you're listening, I'm going to paraphrase and probably get some things wrong, but she was, like, a schoolteacher in Atlanta in her early 20s, and she really did not like the way art was taught in the schools. She felt like it could be much more hands on and done in a much more interesting way. And she went home and told her parents that she wanted to start her own art school. And they were like, okay, you're crazy. Like. Cause they were just regular parents in a regular town in Georgia. And she found this really rundown building in the middle Savannah, completely run down. And for me, growing up in Georgia, I mean, Even in the early 80s, you did not walk outside past sundown in Savannah. It was not a heavily inhabited place. You did not feel safe on the streets at night. And she found this old warehouse. And her parents quit their job, took money, invested. The three of them completely painted all the walls. And I think it was. She said that that first year, they got everything painted up. And the first year, I think she got like, 30 students. And it was either 30 or 70. And she told me, she said, when we found out that we got that many students enrolled, she's like, that's when I realized, like, we'd made it. And I was talking to her recently about this, and I was like, you know, the beauty of it is when you start out doing something on your own, you get to decide the definition of what it is to have made it. Because I think right now, so many people take a route where they go out and they get investment money. They start talking to VCs, PEs. They imagine a big Shark Tank presentation. And the thing is, Mr. Wonderful on Shark Tank would never agree that 30 or 70 students is qualifying as having made it. And so people shut down on their dreams really early on when they're not getting that kind of validation. But if you really just bootstrap things and set really reasonable goals for yourself, you can do it. You're not gonna be a. You know, you're not gonna have a 2000 enrollment in your run, but 30 to 70 students, like, you got that. And now the number. I mean, it's one of the most successful schools in the country. And for sure, from a designer's point of view, when we get a SCAD resume now, you pay attention, and they have got just the best in class offerings there. But the school's been around now for 30, 40 years, and she's at the helm, and she's transformed not just what a school, but an entire city completely.

[Liv Perez]

The entire city revolves around that school.

[Amy Smilovic]

It really does.

[Liv Perez]

And I really loved what you just said about everybody having a different idea of making it. What's your idea of making it?

[Amy Smilovic]

It's changed over the years, but when Covid happened, we were really forced to articulate exactly what success would mean to us, because you were in a position where you were either going to shut down a company and do something new, shut it down and just walk away and hide, or try and revamp things. And so myself, my husband, who is our CEO and our president, Elaine, we sat down and decided that we would define what it meant to make it. And we determined that it would mean that we would only work with people that we loved. And that meant internally and externally. So it meant stores, and it meant our employees. It meant what we said was that we would. Everything that we did meant that we would have to have time for family and a life and enjoy what we were doing every single day. And the third thing was that we had to be independent, and that just not even from a work perspective, but just from a personal perspective. Not having to ask others for approval and have people dictate what we do every day was incredibly important to the three of us. And so when we realized that it was about independence, being around people that we really love and respect and family comes first, those three things guided every decision we made from then on. So pre Covid, when we had, you know, 300 million or bust written on our walls in the office, we were like, well, we don't need $300 million. And it also doesn't mean bust anymore. And 300 million had to come off the wall because it would have meant going out and getting outside investment dollars for it. If you get outside investment dollars, you're gonna be in bed with people that you don't love, and you are definitely losing control and independence. So it's really understanding what motivates you and what's important to you. It just becomes a real benchmark every single time you've got a decision looming ahead. Like we said in our office, we were gonna really memorialize why we made the changes that we did. And we had a thing recently where we had taken our winter collection. And, you know, before COVID a winter collection might have had 150 styles. After Covid, we took it down to, I think, 40 or 50 styles. And right before we were about to show the collection to the whole team, Tracy and I were like, shit, there's only really 12 pieces here that we will really make us feel new and excited. We were like, what if we just do 12 pieces? Let's do it. And we convinced everyone to do just 12 pieces. And our president wrote to us, and she said, well, if you're going to do 12 pieces for winter, could you consider, like, doubling the amount of styles for resort? And I was like, elaine, no, no. Like, that's not the point. And she just wrote back, and she's like, delete, delete, delete the email. Because we all have these brain farts. You have these knee jerks. But it really requires a team around you to be like, no, Remember? And people say that to me all the time. It's like, Remember the Alamo.

[Liv Perez]

As a consumer, I prefer that.

[Amy Smilovic]

Yes, of course.

[Liv Perez]

I would rather go shop at a brand that has a very distinctive point of view with a limited amount of SKUs. And I don't have to look through nine pages of your winter collection where I'm really only interested in two pieces.

[Amy Smilovic]

There's the famous Smucker study business study from years ago where Smucker set up one test in a, in a grocery store with like 200 choices of amazing different flavored jams and everything.

[Liv Perez]

I'm going for strawberry every time.

[Amy Smilovic]

I know. Well, they did. In another grocery store, they did a thing where they had like, I think four choices.

[Liv Perez]

Yep.

[Amy Smilovic]

The one with four choices way outperformed. And even with that, like Harvard Business Review case study, well known, the Smucker study. Every time some people go out with a hundred jams. Every time.

[Liv Perez]

Yeah, I just want, I want four really good things, not a hundred, whatever ones.

[Amy Smilovic]

Really good ones that, you know, whoever made that jam really believes in them.

[Liv Perez]

I agree.

[Amy Smilovic]

Yeah.

[Liv Perez]

Before we continue with our conversation today, a quick thank you to our sponsor of today's episode, Cotton. Cotton's the Fabric of Now campaign is challenging everyone to make the natural choice to give yourself enough room to breathe so that you can be more intentional in your everyday life and in what you wear. To me, cotton as a fabric, it just feels like a giant hug. It's the thing that I go towards every single morning when I'm getting ready to tackle my day because it's the thing that makes me feel most like myself. It feels like a second skin. Plus, it goes really well with everything in my closet and just makes dressing a breeze. It's breathable and soft and comfortable. And honestly, it feels like doing that thing that you need to do for yourself to get grounded after maybe say, a really hectic month. For me, that's going out in nature. And whatever it is for you, it's that feeling of getting back to yourself. I love to go out in nature, put my phone away, leave my laptop at home, be with my loved ones and totally unwind. I feel completely recharged after I do those weekends. And it feels so natural for me. It feels so good to leave those things behind and just get to the center of myself. Maybe read a good book, play a couple board games. That's really when I feel like my most self. And it's the same way that I feel when I'm wearing cotton. So cotton is asking all of us to recharge in your own way. Maybe that means putting your Phone down for a few hours a day or just going out with your friends for the night and being really present, Whatever it is you do, you find that thing that feels natural and makes you feel good. Cotton is the natural choice. So go discover the fabric of now at the Fabric of Our Lives dot com. Let's get back to the show. I want to get into your wardrobe a little bit because I. You're one of my favorite follows. I really resonate with the educational side of what it is that you do, and I love watching you get dressed on Instagram. And I would love to hear a little bit about your process. Getting dressed. Is it. Are you walking into your closet and feeling really excited about one piece, or are you waking up in the morning and feeling like you want to go after a certain energy or emotion?

[Amy Smilovic]

I mean, yes to both, depending on when. So if I've bought something new that I'm really excited about, you know, I'll go into my closet thinking, I want to make this work today. So once I've established that it then is about getting it to feel right for that day. And then other times, I just walk in and I'm like, oh, man. Like, it's gross outside. I feel gross. I wanna feel better, or I just wanna lean into the grossness and I don't give a shit or whatever. But it is about figuring out how you feel, how do you want the clothing to affect how you feel, and then understanding which different pieces of clothing will do that.

[Liv Perez]

Ooh.

[Amy Smilovic]

So that's. Yeah.

[Liv Perez]

Is your closet organized in a way to service that? How do you have your pieces organized in your closet? Now? That's helping you get dressed every day really easily.

[Amy Smilovic]

What's key in my closet is that I have all the fundamental pieces there. You know, that I've got, you know, rows of black pants that have, you know, some have shape, some have different textures, some are different weights. But it really is making sure that I've got all the moods lined up and ready to grab, you know, something really baggy, something a little more sharper and clean. So, to me, the key in the closet is to not be repetitive. When you really repeat a mood straight up, that's when someone's closet tends to get really tilted and dysfunctional. So a lot of people, you know, they buy the perfect black pant for them that's maybe long and lean, cigarette style, and then they go out and they buy another pant just like it, but it's brown this time. And then maybe they see a red one and they're like, oh, man, that's great. And like, now I've got the perfect pant.

[Liv Perez]

This is me, guys. I always say, if you love something, buy it in every color. But I actually was listening to. I can't remember what podcast it was on, but you were like, don't do that. It creates monotony.

[Amy Smilovic]

It creates monotony in your mind. And so what happens is when you've got that perfect pant that makes you feel so tailored and chic. Well, when you want to feel just really chill and approachable, all of a sudden, you've got nothing to wear. So, you know, it really is having that diversity of moods in your closet. So, yeah, when you want to feel tailored and chic, you've got it in that black pant. Maybe you get it if you get like the brown one as well. But like I would say, when you diversify in color, I would jump to different color rings when you do that. Or I would diversify in terms of textures. You know, like, if you've got that black slim, tropical wool pant that you love, maybe getting the same idea of that, but in a nylon, Sporty, nylon type fabric. So next time, that same look that you love on you, it's giving a more sporty, chill vibe. And so it's changing up the mood.

[Liv Perez]

I love the idea of dressing by mood. And I actually was reading your substack and you said the same thing for packing, which this is. I've been so excited for this interview because it's so different than everything I feel like I've tried to formulate. I'm someone who likes to pack in outfits.

[Amy Smilovic]

Yep.

[Liv Perez]

And I was very, very inspired by you saying packed by moon. So, like, let's take the skirt I'm wearing, for example. You would bring this piece and build like 4 to 5 looks around just this.

[Amy Smilovic]

Yeah.

[Liv Perez]

One piece.

[Amy Smilovic]

If I had. If you had that in the suitcase.

[Liv Perez]

I was like, by the way, guys, this is like a houndstooth miniscirt, black and white houndstooth.

[Amy Smilovic]

You've got the cable cream sweater, the black nappa boots. So you've got different textures playing, and you're definitely giving polished and classic. And maybe with the length and the. The boot with the low heel, it's got a modern vibe to it. So if I were then adding something to that mix, I'm probably not gonna add like a cotton button down shirt because that's like more of that. Like, I'm gonna add probably a really big red sweatshirt.

[Liv Perez]

So it's a totally different vibe than modern for like cotton.

[Amy Smilovic]

Yeah. Because if you put on a red sweatshirt with that big and oversized, then now you've got something like if you want to feel a little cooler and chill and you just maybe even are going down for breakfast at your hotel, you're going to do that. And then I would pack a black bodysuit and like really different earrings. So then if you're going out at night, maybe some sheer hose and a sandal. So now like you've got something that is so like over the top, like ready for an amazing bar or whatever. So. So really like choosing a few key. It doesn't have to be the bottom. The top can be the key thing as well. But those key items and then being like, okay, I need super chill vibe. And then I need something that's like really cool for going out and something really classic. So don't think then three outfits. You want to keep ex, you know, morphing what you've already got in the suitcase.

[Liv Perez]

I think it's a great way to pack. You get. It's basically thinking in like multiples. It's like you get way more out of your suitcase.

[Amy Smilovic]

Way more.

[Liv Perez]

Say you're packing for a four day trip. How many key pieces are you bringing?

[Amy Smilovic]

I mean, if it were me, I would. If you started right there with, I think it's about putting on like one thing that you know you love. So if we're gonna start with that. So we've already got the other things, right. We've got a bodysuit, we've got a red sweatshirt, and we've got a pair of heels. So you got three things now in addition to, to maybe what you can even get by wearing on the plane. So now I'm gonna pack a big pair of like nylon, sporty slouchy pants, like pleated nylon pants or track pants. And I'm gonna wear that with the sweater. I'm gonna maybe tuck those pants into that boot. And then I'm gonna have a big blazer on with it. So now I've added a sporting nylon pant and a blazer. So now I'm wearing the blazer, the sporty nylon pant with the bodysuit. And that's creating an interesting look. And then I'm definitely wearing the sporty pants with the big red sweatshirt and maybe the heels and the hosiery. And that's like a weird going out thing.

[Liv Perez]

Yep.

[Amy Smilovic]

I mean, you're kind of done. You're done.

[Liv Perez]

You're so right.

[Amy Smilovic]

And like depending on where you're going, if you're going to Paris, you're going to pick up, like, a great extra two items. If you're going to Asheville, North Carolina, you're going to get a great T shirt. Like, you want to also be able to pick up some things where you are and not be so saddled with what you've brought.

[Liv Perez]

I. This was such a perspective shift for me. I can't wait to try this next time I pack.

[Amy Smilovic]

Amazing.

[Liv Perez]

I love how you analyze your closet. Like, truly it. There's a science to it.

[Amy Smilovic]

Yes.

[Liv Perez]

And I also have. One of the reasons I love following you is because you've been able to break down the experience of getting dressed into something that feels really approachable. You've packaged it very well. And I know you wrote a book called Creative Pragmatists, and volume two is coming out soon, which is so exciting. We'll talk about that a little later. But I want to get into some of those key phrases, because a frequent question I get asked on my channel and in this podcast is really just how to get dressed every day, how to pick the right thing out, how to style a great pair of bootcut jeans. It's. It's really the basics and the fundamentals, and that's why I really resonate with what you do. So talk to us about what a creative pragmatist is.

[Amy Smilovic]

A pragmatist is someone who really resides along the scale of highly creative to highly pragmatic. They move along that scale comfortably. They don't feel like they have to be stagnant in any portion of the scale. There are days where they can be very creative. There are days where they can be just really, like, much more minimalist, like a Sarah Harris or someone like that. And then there are days where they can just be right in between. And, like, maybe someone like Tamu McPherson would be, like, the. The stereotype of what that is.

[Liv Perez]

I love her so much.

[Amy Smilovic]

Right. And so, I mean, Tamu's a good example where, you know, you can see her just feeling very comfortable in a weird brown suit just as much as she is in a brown suit with a yellow bag and amazing earrings. And then taking the brown jacket, a yellow bag, over a green dress with, like, weird tights. And, you know, but it's all Tam every time. She doesn't look like she's flipped into a different individual.

[Liv Perez]

No, she, like, exudes joy. And through her dressing, she is. She has such an archetype of her style that every time I see her on Instagram, I'm like, there she is.

[Amy Smilovic]

Yep. But she very Much has those three adjectives. Everything that she wears is. She's always looks like she has ease to her. And ease doesn't mean that you're, you know, strolling along the beach in Malibu. Like, ease means you don't look like you're about to bite someone's head off, you know, or you just don't look like you're the one who's gonna be like, I'm calling the manager. You know? And then everything that she does has an air of modernity to it, but it's always a bit of familiarities there, right? Like, every. There's something there that's gonna be, you know, hearkening to something classic. So it's someone who really defines themselves as chill, modern and classic. And it's always on their body all at once in some way. And so it's really key that you define who you are. And not everyone's a creative pragmatist at all. And in fact, 90% of my friends are not. You know, they would define themselves as super creative, feminine, edgy. You know, they've got different adjectives that they would use. It's key to understand which ones really apply to you. And lean into that when you're getting. Not just when you're getting dressed, but when you're buying things. It's like, you gotta tackle the opportunity early on. So, you know, when you are buying things in the future, you really need to know, where does that sit within your personal style, and what is that gonna do for you?

[Liv Perez]

I've always had a hard time with three words. Not conceptually, but in practice. I feel like maybe I'm someone who, like, sways on them. Or if I pick my three words, I'm suddenly like, wait, I want this other word. Yeah, maybe one of my three words should be indecisive.

[Amy Smilovic]

Well, maybe. I mean. Or, you know, it's not. You know, it doesn't have to be a negative, though. Like, I think that maybe you crave to be more chameleon, like, and unexpected. You know, like, the idea of someone being able to anticipate your next move might seem like something that would just be horrible.

[Liv Perez]

Right. I definitely like to shapeshift in my clothes. I think I dress for an essence. Sure. Of course. I have those days where I love. You know, I have that key piece I'm excited to wear. But I definitely chase a feeling. Like today I really wanted kind of like classic New York, maybe a little, like, Ralph Lauren inspired. But I've always had a hard time finding those three words because of that. So for people who are listening, who might also be like me, what do you recommend? What's the way in to finding those three words?

[Amy Smilovic]

The. It's really about thinking of them as first principles. You want to drill down on words to describe yourself. That once you've drilled down to them, there's there, you know, you've really gotten to the core essence of something and that it can't be drilled any deeper. So like, I mean, for sure in your, I would imagine in your repertoire, it's got to. Classic has to be in there somewhere, you know.

[Liv Perez]

Yes.

[Amy Smilovic]

And so once you've got classic done, you. You want to search for words that build that out a little bit further rather than being another synonym. You know, sometimes people are like, I'm classic, I'm heritage.

[Liv Perez]

Oh, yeah.

[Amy Smilovic]

And you know, and it's like, oh, those, you know, it's all the same. It's the same look up synonyms and you'll find them. So it takes a while. And one of the things that we talk about is you define who you are in terms of these adjectives that are but ones that don't lock you in. I mean, chill is hardly putting handcuffs on you. That's why I like it. It can mean a lot of different things to different people, but we also have people talk about what their modifiers are. So if I'm chill, modern and classic, and if you turn out to be chill, modern and classic as well, we can still be the same adjectives, but we don't interpret them in the same way because you modify them. And for me, things having a bit of humor to it is a way that I usually modify what I'm wearing. You know, I really like to fuck things up a bit.

[Liv Perez]

What would you say to someone who looks at their closet and just has a bunch of stuff and no idea what to wear?

[Amy Smilovic]

I think that you need to understand who you are. You've got to get your adjectives down. Once you get that down, I break apart my closet into three categories and that's what I call the without fails. Those are the fundamental pieces in my closet that every time when I put them on, they speak to chill, modern and classic. They are my identity straight up. And for me, someone like me, that probably comprises about 50 to 60% of my closet. And then there is a portion of my closet that I call in and outs. And those are things that I'm really drawn to. I have an emotional reaction to them in that I'm like, oh man, if I buy that new tibi Or Loewe or Bottega Balenciaga or something of. I'm just using those brands because they can conjure up quick images. But, you know, if I bring in that one item, it's gonna make that blazer or those pants that I live in feel all of a sudden brand new. But those things that I'm drawn to, once you understand your adjectives, I can look at a. Again, I'll use Loewe for an example. I can look at a Loewe top and be like, oh, it's got this big, sculpted sleeve, and it's a really strong saturated color, and the fabric is really, like, strong, and it's got an interesting point of view to it. I can look at that and be like, that is something that. Even though it's got all that strength and modernity and point of view, there's still elements of it that are still chill, and it's very modern, and it's still quite classic. And that's why when I look at the Loewe and I love it, I understand that it's going to have a place in my closet where I can look at something from Chloe and say, oh, that's. That's beautiful. I like. I really love that. I can really appreciate it. But maybe there's one too many elements to it. There's. There's one bit of softness that is just too feminine for me, and I can make one outfit for it, but I'm not going to make, like, multiple. Multiple outfits.

[Liv Perez]

That's a big one.

[Amy Smilovic]

So I tell people, when you're shopping for new things, you know, if you put on a top, but it requires the bottom from another brand to actually give you a feeling that you want, that's when you want to back away from it. But if you can put on that top from Loewe and you can put it with your favorite pair of pleated nylon trouser pants, and when people see you, they'll say, oh, my God, that's so you. But it's you, like 2.0. You. You know, and so those fundamentals, with everything new that you buy, that's crazy and pushed, those fundamentals keep you grounded, and they make it so that you see yourself in something. So in your closet, you've got the fundamental pieces. You've got these things that are meant to come in maybe for two years, three years, and then you'll put them away for a while, but you don't call up the real real. You put them away, and then you're going to bring them Back out later on when you're in the mood again for something cropped and big. And then in my closet, I have something that I call had to haves. And those are things that they don't have to make sense to anyone but yourself. They're oddly emotional and you wanted them and you can't really explain why. If someone came to me and they're like, why did you buy that over the top Fendi beaded weird skirt? That is a mini skirt. When you don't ever wear miniskirts. Like, why?

[Liv Perez]

Oh, I could give you a hundred.

[Amy Smilovic]

Reasons when you've never worn it once. I'm like, I don't know, I was really drawn to it.

[Liv Perez]

There's some things that are meant to be art in your closet and that's okay.

[Amy Smilovic]

Yes. And the thing is, is making sure that when you bring in those pieces that are meant to be art or that are meant to be art, that you like, hang up once or twice a year. Don't get duplicative on those and don't purge them either. So purge things that over fulfill in that category. So yes, I just bought this Rabanne beaded like sequiny, jangly silver and gold bag, but that's it. I don't need. When I have an urge for a bag that I can fall in love with, I'm like, no, I've got that one bag in there. I'll wear it twice a year or whatever. But I don't need more of those bags. And really. And I know from people that it works because we laid down this as principles over three years ago. And people write to me all the time and tell me they're buying so much less than they ever have. And I know that it works because when I set out to redo the book and come up with the CP Edition 2, I wanted to include new principles because that seemed like what you would want to do when you're doing a new book. But there were no new principles to add. And I didn't delete any of the principles. I was like, fuck, these were solid. And it almost got like, if I were to add more principles, it would be like, psych.

[Liv Perez]

It's like having a toned down collection.

[Amy Smilovic]

I didn't have to add any principles. And over the last three years, since I wrote the first book, I found clearer ways to describe them, I found better examples to communicate them, and I updated all the sketches. So I ended up rewriting the whole book. But I didn't change one of the principles or any of the core Concepts behind the principles.

[Liv Perez]

That's really exciting.

[Amy Smilovic]

Yeah. Because if you bought into it, you're not, you're gonna really like. It's not like. Psych.

[Liv Perez]

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[Amy Smilovic]

Yes. So if you bought the book before, I think you are going to get, I hope, much more juicier information to help you even better understand what you believe you already understand. We printed it. It was printed in London and they'll be on their way soon.

[Liv Perez]

Oh, that's so exciting. I can't wait to see it. I often get asked from people who are redoing their closets or, you know, they want to go and buy some new things. They're feeling like a little stale in their closet.

[Amy Smilovic]

Yeah.

[Liv Perez]

And a question I'll get asked is where do I start? What item do you think I should start with to help kind of redesign and re inject some Life into my closet.

[Amy Smilovic]

Well, I think that what I would define first is when you're saying, re inject some life in your closet. What most people are struggling with is they've got so much life happening in their closet that they're really just looking to create a stronger through line so that they can be more experimental with purpose. And then other people are like, literally, you know, they are literally starting out. And. And those people tend to be in their late 20s when they're like, I'm ready for. I know who I am. And now I can't wait to get started with this and purge who I was and really get started with who I am.

[Liv Perez]

I get that frequently from that age range, but then also from new moms who are looking to revamp their style after having a baby.

[Amy Smilovic]

Yeah. And usually the new moms, though, a lot of them, they were the younger person who had the crazy closet. You got pregnant, you had the baby, and then you're like, shit. So now you're figuring out not only just who you are from a style perspective, but now who are you with, like these little things running around around you. And so that's where those fundamentals are key. And fundamentals are things that, you know, you really want to figure out, like what are the perfect bottom pieces for you? And that's where you don't want to get duplicative. If you know. If you know that you need the perfect eased out pant, the perfect tailored pant, the really chill skirt, the really sporty, tight bottom. You want to really check off different moods and textures with what your fundamental pieces are. And you can get started with five or six pieces there. And I would definitely do them in neutrals. Do not try and like tackle that with something red or purple or yellow, but get those neutral items down and then get your. For me, I'm someone who wears jackets a lot. I prioritize. I would do jackets for me ahead of tops, because I am not a top person. Right?

[Liv Perez]

Yeah, 100%. A great jacket can transform jeans. Easy pair of pants.

[Amy Smilovic]

Yep. So if I'm going to be starting out my closet, I'm going to nail with two or three different jackets. I'm going to have something really oversized. I'm going to have something longer and leaner, and I'm going to have something more bulbous, rounder or something. So then I get three jackets in and ideally one's in like a tropical wool, one's in like a nylon type fabric. One is, you know, if the tropical wool was a navy, maybe the Third, blazery type thing is a lighter color, light gray or something like that. And then maybe I'm going to make sure that I've got the range of the T shirts that I need. I've got the range of the button downs that I need. And so right now that's, you know, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, you know, 14 pieces that you need in your closet. And ideally, you've invested a little bit more than what you would normally spend on something because when you get those pieces right, you want them to last forever.

[Liv Perez]

I want to highlight, before we close out, one of my favorite of your tips, which is One Ton or none. It's helped me so much in getting dressed in terms of what you were just saying, where the eye goes. Training your eye.

[Amy Smilovic]

Yes.

[Liv Perez]

Could you talk us through what that is?

[Amy Smilovic]

It's One Ton or none came about because I really try and help people figure out where the antsiness comes from when you're getting dressed. And what is your eye seeing as a result of how you feel that maybe even no one else is seeing when you come out and your friends are like, oh, my God, that's perfectly good. I don't know why you're upset. And you're like, ugh, there's just something not clicking off. Yeah, right. And One Ton or none really gets to the essence of what is often off when you're getting dressed and when your eye doesn't settle, you don't feel settled. And, you know, feeling settled is a really big thing, because when you don't feel settled, it's hard to focus. It's hard to go into a meeting and tackle something at hand. It's hard to go in and analyze a problem properly. And it makes you snap at people. I snap at my husband. He's like, what the fuck did I do wrong? And I'm like, I'm wearing the wrong. It's not you, it's my belt. Yes. That's a whole title of that's a good substack. It's not you all the time. It's my shoe.

[Liv Perez]

I'm actually thinking about how many times that's happened.

[Amy Smilovic]

Yes.

[Liv Perez]

Yeah.

[Amy Smilovic]

You're, like, really pissed and you're, like, trying to figure out why. And so your eye darting around can really make you crazy. And so even with what you're wearing right now, with the cream and the tweed and the black, a red leather.

[Liv Perez]

Belt would be crazy.

[Amy Smilovic]

Like, where am I looking? I don't know. You know, right now, my eye's landing right on that cream sweater. So Even though you've mixed in a lot of different textures and everything, the eye's still going right to the cream sweater. And it's why you can look at a Balenciaga Runway show where they're wearing, like, all this crazy color down the Runway, yet there's something very oddly settling about it. It's your eyes not going focusing right in on, like, the turquoise skirt, because it's also got the laminated pink high boots and the purple weird blouse and the print, you know, like, it's so over the top that that's a ton. And you're just seeing this kind of fabulousness down the Runway. And that's why I hate, like, in magazines when they talk about Runway to reality, and they'll show that over the top Balenciaga look. And they're like, mimic this look with a turquoise pair of pants and this printed Diane bomb Furstenberg blouse. And you're like, that doesn't work. It doesn't work.

[Liv Perez]

That doesn't work.

[Amy Smilovic]

Why? Because, like, you're. You like your eyes bouncing around, and then you're like, I'll put a sensible shoe on to calm it down. And you're like, that did not calm it down.

[Liv Perez]

That didn't help.

[Amy Smilovic]

It didn't help because it made your eye, you know, it didn't need a sensible shoe. It needed a weird ass shoe and a weirder bag.

[Liv Perez]

And you really have to lean in when you're doing that.

[Amy Smilovic]

I think it's a real bigger go big or go home moment when you do ton.

[Liv Perez]

Yes.

[Amy Smilovic]

Yeah. Because if your eye is going to two different places, you did not nail ton. And that's why Leandra Medine, for me, is always a really great example. Great example of ton. A good ton, for sure.

[Liv Perez]

I love. I love ton style. That's where my heart sings. I get so excited about it. I'm not good at it, but I love admiring it from afar. We always close out the show by asking one question, and that's, if you could change anything in fashion right now, what would it be?

[Amy Smilovic]

I could write a stub stack with 100 things that I would change in fashion right now. The number one thing I would do is, everyone needs to stop making so much shit. Just stop.

[Liv Perez]

This is honestly becoming the number one answer. Everyone says this.

[Amy Smilovic]

Stop it.

[Liv Perez]

I loved the example you gave in the beginning of, like, narrowing down your collection to key pieces. I think that that is such a great example to set for so many people. And I really hope, again, as a consumer, I would love to see more of that.

[Amy Smilovic]

Yes.

[Liv Perez]

Narrow it down.

[Amy Smilovic]

But that's why a quick wraparound. Even as a brand, you have to figure out your adjectives, because a lot of people get confused and they think narrowing it down means I am going to only do frilly dresses with lace, and I'll do eight of them in eight different colors. And that's not narrowing it down. It's really lean. You know, you can be broader with less as long as you're doing it within your adjectives. It's when you are trying to be too many things that you get all over the place. But you also can't be too singular because then it's one note flat. Once people are done with that dress, they're done with you.

[Liv Perez]

Yeah, let's like no more 60 look shows. I'm good.

[Amy Smilovic]

No.

[Liv Perez]

I'm good.

[Amy Smilovic]

No.

[Liv Perez]

Yeah. Give me a focus.

[Amy Smilovic]

Yes.

[Liv Perez]

Give me your three words.

[Amy Smilovic]

I agree.

[Liv Perez]

Thank you so much for coming on. I love. I love getting inside your brain for a little bit. It's so much fun. And there were so many things that you said that are principles that I live by, and you've completely changed my perspective. So thank you so much.

[Amy Smilovic]

Cool. All right, thanks.

[Liv Perez]

Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.