How The RealReal's Founder Julie Wainwright Built a Billion-Dollar Business and Disrupted Luxury Resale

Summary

Podcast Summary: "How The RealReal's Founder Julie Wainwright Built a Billion-Dollar Business and Disrupted Luxury Resale"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Let's Get Dressed
• Host: Liv Perez
• Episode Title: How The RealReal's Founder Julie Wainwright Built a Billion-Dollar Business and Disrupted Luxury Resale
• Release Date: June 9, 2025

---

Introduction

In this enlightening episode of Let's Get Dressed, host Liv Perez welcomes Julie Wainwright, the visionary founder of The RealReal. Julie shares her remarkable journey from leading Pets.com during the infamous dot-com crash to establishing a billion-dollar luxury resale platform that has revolutionized the fashion industry.

Julie Wainwright's Career Journey

Julie begins by recounting her early career, highlighting significant milestones and setbacks:

• Berkeley Systems (1995): Julie joined as Vice President, leading the company from failure to success by introducing the bestselling game "You Don't Know Jack." "[...] I turned it around. We introduced this best selling game called You Don't Know Jack," Julie explains ([15:07]).

• Reel.com (1997): Serving as CEO, Julie navigated the fledgling online movie sales platform during the early days of e-commerce. Despite growing the company to around $40 million, Reel.com was eventually sold to Hollywood Video ([16:00]).

• Pets.com (Late 1990s - 2000): As CEO, Julie faced the tumultuous period of Pets.com's rapid rise and subsequent collapse amid the dot-com bust. The experience was a profound personal and professional setback, culminating in her divorce on the day the company shut down ([17:00]).

Julie reflects on these experiences, emphasizing resilience:

“Sometimes timing's everything. Sometimes you're too early. Sometimes you're not.” ([18:54]).

Founding The RealReal

At 52, Julie reinvented herself by founding The RealReal, a luxury consignment platform designed to make high-end fashion accessible and sustainable. The inspiration struck in 2010 when Julie observed her venture capitalist friend’s preference for a beautifully displayed consignment section in a boutique. This observation led to her "aha" moment: creating an online platform that would simplify and upscale the consignment process ([22:26]).

Innovations and Business Model of The RealReal

Julie delves into the unique elements that set The RealReal apart:

• Personalized Consignment: Instead of requiring consignors to visit physical stores, The RealReal sends appraisers to clients' homes to handle consignments, ensuring convenience and maintaining the brand's luxury appeal ([22:53]).

• Rapid Inventory Turnover: The platform aims to move 90% of its inventory within 90 days to avoid overstocking and maintain fresh, desirable listings. "Our goal really was to help people make the right decision as fast," Julie notes ([25:03]).

• Expert Advisory: Consignors receive personalized advice on what to sell and when, minimizing returns and maximizing the value of their items. This advisory role helps maintain high standards and customer satisfaction ([22:53]).

Challenges with Counterfeits and Authentication

A significant focus of the conversation is The RealReal's stringent authentication process to combat counterfeit goods:

• Advanced Authentication Systems: Handling 7-9 million products annually, The RealReal employs a combination of machine learning and expert human authenticators to detect fakes. Julie recounts a harrowing incident where counterfeiters threatened her personally:

“So it's in the book. It was a terrifying moment.” ([34:07]).

• Continuous Vigilance: Counterfeiters constantly evolve, pushing The RealReal to stay ahead with sophisticated detection methods. Julie shares an example of a socialite attempting to consign fake Chanel goods, which led to her blacklisting the individual permanently ([35:27]).

Personal Favorites from The RealReal

Julie expresses her personal affinity for items she acquired through The RealReal, highlighting the platform's ability to offer luxury at a fraction of the cost:

• Cartier Jewelry and Louis Vuitton Duffels: Julie mentions owning several high-end pieces, including Bottega handbags and Louis Vuitton duffels, praising their quality and durability.

“If I think it has to go anywhere away from my body, you know, it can't be in the overhead. I will never travel with those except in my car, because I don't want it damaged. It's too gorgeous.” ([37:20]).

Advice for Female Entrepreneurs

Julie offers invaluable advice for aspiring female entrepreneurs, drawing from her diverse experiences:

1. Surround Yourself with the Right People: “Find your creative people. Whether it's creative, and I don't care what it is. Find your people,” Julie advises ([42:26]).

2. Value and Execute Ideas Quickly: She stresses the importance of treating ideas as precious while swiftly moving to execute them before someone else does.

3. Resilience and Long-Term Vision: Julie emphasizes playing the long game and viewing every failure as a learning opportunity:

“Every failure is a learning opportunity. Everything that comes at you is something that will add to you. It won't stop subtract from you at all.” ([43:47]).

Announcement of Julie's Memoir

Towards the end of the episode, Julie announces her forthcoming memoir, "Time to Get Real: How I Built a Billion-Dollar Business that Rocked the Fashion Industry," set to release on June 10th via Amazon and Barnes & Noble. Liv Perez expresses her excitement and encourages listeners to check it out, highlighting its detailed account of Julie's entrepreneurial journey ([44:24]).

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Notable Quotes:

• Julie Wainwright on Overcoming Failure:

  “Sometimes timing's everything. Sometimes you're too early. Sometimes you're not.” ([18:54])

• Julie Wainwright on Entrepreneurship:

  “Every failure is a learning opportunity. Everything that comes at you is something that will add to you. It won't stop subtract from you at all.” ([43:47])

• Julie Wainwright on The RealReal’s Mission:

  “Our goal really was to help people make the right decision as fast.” ([25:03])

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Conclusion

Julie Wainwright's journey from the highs and lows of the dot-com era to founding The RealReal offers a compelling narrative of resilience, innovation, and leadership in the fashion industry. Her insights into sustainable luxury, combating counterfeits, and empowering female entrepreneurs provide valuable lessons for listeners aspiring to make their mark in the business world.

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Where to Find Julie's Memoir:

• Title: Time to Get Real: How I Built a Billion-Dollar Business that Rocked the Fashion Industry
• Release Date: June 10th
• Available at: Amazon and Barnes & Noble

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This episode not only sheds light on the intricacies of building a successful luxury resale platform but also inspires with stories of overcoming adversity and championing sustainable fashion.

Transcript

[Julie Wainwright]

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[Liv Perez]

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[Julie Wainwright]

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[Liv Perez]

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[Julie Wainwright]

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[Liv Perez]

Thanks. And here's my old phone to trade in.

[Julie Wainwright]

You don't need a trade in. When you switch to T mobile. We'll give you a new iPhone 16 Pro plus we'll help you pay off your old Phone up to 800 bucks and you still get to keep it.

[Liv Perez]

There's always a trade in. Not right now. @ T Mobile. I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma.

[Julie Wainwright]

That's okay.

[Liv Perez]

I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer. It's lavender.

[Julie Wainwright]

I'm good. Seriously.

[Liv Perez]

Let me check this pocket. Oh, mints.

[Julie Wainwright]

Really, I'm fine.

[Liv Perez]

Oh, I have raisins. I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car.

[Julie Wainwright]

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[Liv Perez]

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[Julie Wainwright]

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[Liv Perez]

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[Julie Wainwright]

Allow 15 days credits end and balance due if you pay off early or cancel c mobile.com.

[Liv Perez]

Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of let's get dressed. It's your host, Liv Perez. Today we have on a serial entrepreneur who has definitely changed the way I and probably so many of you listening have shopped. From shuttering a business to building a billion dollar business. Julie Reinwright is the founder of the RealReal and is an entrepreneur who has truly seen it all. After serving as the CEO of Pets.com and actually experiencing its collapse after it went public during the dot com crash, Julie had to reinvent herself and she went on to build the RealReal, the luxury resale platform that revolutionized the fashion industry. In today's episode, Julie opens up about how she turned a major setback into her biggest company yet, the innovations that really set the RealReal apart and still do to this day, and the really powerful lessons that she learned as a woman navigating the business world. In case you're extra inspired by today's conversation, Julie is also coming out with her memoir, Time to Get How I Built a Billion Dollar Business that Rocked the Fashion Industry. It is coming out tomorrow, June 10th and is available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble. I've linked it in the description of this episode. Before we get going, a Quick Housekeeping Note if you love this podcast, you will definitely, definitely love my new substack newsletter. Let's Get Dressed. As a subscriber, you will get weekly fashion deep dives, daily styling tips, trend forecasting, and access to an incredible community of fashion lovers alike. And as a thank you to you guys for being my podcast listeners, I'm giving you three months free when you subscribe for the full year. That's just $63 for exclusive content and access to my private style chat where you can ask me questions directly like what to wear to a friend's wedding or how to style that new shoe that you just got for your closet. You can sign up through the link in the show notes and I hope to see you guys there. Now let's go get dressed with Julie Wainwright. Hi Julie.

[Julie Wainwright]

Hi Liv.

[Liv Perez]

I'm so thrilled to have you here today.

[Julie Wainwright]

Oh, I'm so happy you're having me on. This is fun. I love that you're in New York.

[Liv Perez]

Oh thanks. I know it was kismet timing for us cause we were booking this and I was like, I'm coming to town. And now we're in this insanely chic room and your outfit matches perfectly with the room. It's just fun. It's so nice. I am such a fan and admirer of you and your work. I am like an og. Real, real girl. I think I've been there since 2012. Every time I sign on there it.

[Julie Wainwright]

Says like I said, you are. You're very early.

[Liv Perez]

Very early. I think my mom, who's a big fashion lover, was an early adopter of.

[Julie Wainwright]

The RealReal and we launched in June of 2011. So you're really early then.

[Liv Perez]

I'm such a big fan.

[Julie Wainwright]

Well, thank you.

[Liv Perez]

Of course. And especially now you're writing a book. You have so much to look forward to. I'm so excited to dive into all that today Okay.

[Julie Wainwright]

A little nervous about the book coming. I'm excited. I'm quite nervous. For me, it was. I felt like the story of creating the RealReal was a big story and it has so many lessons along the way. And it was mostly fun, but it was also crazy that I wanted to write a true story because let me tell you, going out to meet with publishers, which my agent did, she heard time and time again, women's business books don't sell. And I mean, we ended up with a couple of offers, but I mean, that was 98%. No, you only need one or you self publish. But women's business books don't sell. And then when I thought about it, I buy most women's business books and they're more promotional and.

[Liv Perez]

Right.

[Julie Wainwright]

Which is fine. And they serve a purpose. This isn't, this is really. It's sort of down and dirty what it's like to, you know, create something which started in my home to getting it to a billion dollars and working in the venture capital world. And I take you year by year and what happened and stories and anecdotes and, you know, to present day. So it's, it's a ride. It's a ride. But starting a company is a ride, you know, it's really something.

[Liv Perez]

I think now more than ever there's a very big appetite for stories from women in tech who have gone on to work in other industries that are not just Silicon Valley focused. Julia and I actually have a friend who has an Instagram account called Dadabut make it Fashion. She went to Harvard.

[Julie Wainwright]

Oh, I know that site best. Love it, love it, love it.

[Liv Perez]

Like, and I think her rise and her kind of not overnight success, but she's definitely had a very high demand in the last year. And I think it's because there is this appetite for more stories from other people who have taken what they love and turned it either into a fashion business or a beauty business, but not sacrificed not having to be in the tech space or the startup space. It's amazing. Let's first, before we go in there, we always open the show with asking what he wore to POD today. So. So let's start there. Before we get into the nitty gritty of the realreal, I have to know what you put on today because everything about your outfit is perfect. That ring is unbelievable.

[Julie Wainwright]

Which one?

[Liv Perez]

The one on your. This one Anti ring finger one.

[Julie Wainwright]

All right, so this is Diane von Furstenberg.

[Liv Perez]

It's the perfect wrap dress.

[Julie Wainwright]

I love her things. I know her. I consider her a Friend. And honestly, she knows how to cut for women. They're so easy to wear. They're gorgeous. And I mean, they're sexy.

[Liv Perez]

Yes. It's amazing.

[Julie Wainwright]

Which is what I think she is, right? She's all those things.

[Liv Perez]

She's so fabulous.

[Julie Wainwright]

She is so fabulous. Without a doubt, these are Louboutins.

[Liv Perez]

Yep.

[Julie Wainwright]

I need my platforms because I'm short.

[Liv Perez]

Oh, my.

[Julie Wainwright]

These are all real. Real. Okay, so we've got some Cartier. We've got some Cartier, love. This is my friend. You may even know. Darn it. I wish I knew. Anyway, from la. Fran Lasker. Her daughter does jewelry. Do you know Fran? Do you know her daughter?

[Liv Perez]

This is crazy. I grew up with them. That was one of my. That's one of my mom's oldest friends.

[Julie Wainwright]

Oh, my gosh. So Sienna's jewelry line.

[Liv Perez]

That's Sienna's.

[Julie Wainwright]

That is Sienna.

[Liv Perez]

Sienna. I'm giving you a call, babe.

[Julie Wainwright]

Yep. Wow.

[Liv Perez]

It's gorgeous.

[Julie Wainwright]

I can't. I know.

[Liv Perez]

Well, I'm la born in red, born in bred.

[Julie Wainwright]

So whenever I wear this, everyone's like, where can I buy this? I'm like, well, I can hook you up.

[Liv Perez]

It's so gorgeous.

[Julie Wainwright]

So love this. And do I have a gold hoops? Yeah, I don't. These might even be Cartier.

[Liv Perez]

They're beautiful.

[Julie Wainwright]

And then Presley Oldham, do you know him?

[Liv Perez]

Presley Oldham? I don't think so.

[Julie Wainwright]

He's adorable. He's a young designer. He tends to take other jewelry and other. And remakes jewelry.

[Liv Perez]

Oh, beautiful.

[Julie Wainwright]

These are two of his necklaces, which I love him. So he's working really, really hard. Everything is recirculated, recycled jewelry.

[Liv Perez]

So.

[Julie Wainwright]

So this is him. I talked to him to actually help him with his business. He's sort of a one man show, trying to do everything. And he's young and gorgeous, but he's gonna fall apart at some point.

[Liv Perez]

We all need mentors like you. Okay.

[Julie Wainwright]

He's gonna fall apart. And this is another Sienna.

[Liv Perez]

Oh, wow. Oh, my God. This is a crazy thing that you're here on the podcast wearing all Sienna's jewelry. I love that. What a small world moment.

[Julie Wainwright]

But I think her things are so wearable and they're beautiful.

[Liv Perez]

And she's been doing it for a long time.

[Julie Wainwright]

She has another successful entrepreneur. Yes.

[Liv Perez]

I love it. And who makes your glasses?

[Julie Wainwright]

I do not know, but I wouldn't doubt if they're Ray Ban.

[Liv Perez]

I think so.

[Julie Wainwright]

Clear. Yeah, they're beautiful.

[Liv Perez]

Description for you as someone who is clearly in a lot of like power rooms. You're pitching you're kind of out there all the time. I love that you just said the DVF wrap dress is part of your kind of repertoire of quote unquote power suits. What else is in your wardrobe? That if you have a big meeting or a podcast or something that feels important, that you're like, okay, this is my boss outfit.

[Julie Wainwright]

Well, I still wear a lot of suits. I still love pantsuits because they're so easy and they're flexible. And I have two go tos. Alexander McQueen, which stunning. I love everything about it. Except when their shoulder pads got too extended. But you can still find some that aren't, you know, way out, like three feet. Anyway, love them. And if I. I mean, I will buy two or three at a time. And also they have good resale value. Very important. And then you still have to look. But can be really sexy. Sexy but really professional Dolce suits.

[Liv Perez]

Oh, wow.

[Julie Wainwright]

So. But again, you have to look more form fitting. Well, I just bought a pair of. I bought a brown pinstripe suit from them that has wide leg pants.

[Liv Perez]

Cute.

[Julie Wainwright]

And a cute, tight jacket. So cute. So different. Very fresh. But I would say Alexander McQueen's my suit. And you know, I'm petite, so I have to. I wish I could wear other designs. Like, I love a good Celine jacket.

[Liv Perez]

Yes. Oh, my gosh.

[Julie Wainwright]

Love.

[Liv Perez]

That is one of my biggest, real, real searches.

[Julie Wainwright]

Celine jacket. Celine jackets. Love it.

[Liv Perez]

Yep. They're so well made.

[Julie Wainwright]

And I just feel like they're timeless. They are timeless.

[Liv Perez]

And, like a little edgy in the best way.

[Julie Wainwright]

I agree.

[Liv Perez]

Not something that feels too, like, thin. It gives you a great shape. A Celine jacket, in my opinion.

[Julie Wainwright]

Yep.

[Liv Perez]

And you brought up shoulder pads before. What do you say to the shoulder pad haters? I'm a shoulder pad lover.

[Julie Wainwright]

Well, look, I wear. I mean, I don't have shoulder pads on today. I think there's shoulder pads and then there's shoulder pads.

[Liv Perez]

Yes.

[Julie Wainwright]

And I think a good shoulder pad, when they brought it back, you know. Cause the 80s were crazy. Yep. When they brought it back and it was more just a little bit, they didn't go extreme. And even. Remember when Alexander McQueen did the little, like, tuck up.

[Liv Perez]

Yes.

[Julie Wainwright]

I thought it was fabulous. It cut a nice line, I have to say. Now the ones, I mean, they have really big ones.

[Liv Perez]

Yeah. They're giant.

[Julie Wainwright]

And for someone who's shorter.

[Liv Perez]

Yep.

[Julie Wainwright]

They look ridiculous. And I put it on because the sales people, oh, you gotta try this on. I'm like, I'm gonna do this for you. And then I come Out. They're like, that looks ridiculous.

[Liv Perez]

Yes.

[Julie Wainwright]

And I'm like, I know. So the question is, who can wear it? And I'd say if you are five'11 to six'2, you can wear it.

[Liv Perez]

Yes.

[Julie Wainwright]

And it'll look amazing on you. But for someone who's more petite, it's not. Right.

[Liv Perez]

So I actually wear them all the time.

[Julie Wainwright]

Really?

[Liv Perez]

The exaggerated ones, not the overly exaggerated ones. But I do really find myself drawn towards blazers and jackets that have a little bit of a shoulder pad, because I find that it gives me that little oomph, like a little bit of extra height. I can't do the big ones. I actually. My favorite real, real buy of all time was a Saint Laurent dress from maybe the 2018 Runway. And it was that black kind of crepe long dress that went in at the waist, big gold buttons down the side.

[Julie Wainwright]

Oh, I know exactly which one. Yes.

[Liv Perez]

And big shoulder pads. Yeah.

[Julie Wainwright]

You're talking my language. Yeah.

[Liv Perez]

I mean, that's why we're here.

[Julie Wainwright]

I know.

[Liv Perez]

We're here to speak the same language.

[Julie Wainwright]

I know, I know.

[Liv Perez]

But that was my best, best, real, real buy of all time. I've worn it probably 30 times, and I've only had it for two years. And that has quite an exaggerated shoulder pad. But I think because the rest of the dress is really form fitting.

[Julie Wainwright]

Right.

[Liv Perez]

And I'll put my hair in a bun, it can be really elegant. But I think you have to work with it. I agree with you. I think you really have to find the right shape shoulder pad for your body.

[Julie Wainwright]

All right, so the good news, with shoulder pads, they make your hips look really little.

[Liv Perez]

Yes. That's the good news.

[Julie Wainwright]

And they do give you a cool line.

[Liv Perez]

Yes.

[Julie Wainwright]

But when you have an oversized jacket with big shoulder pads, I mean, I just get lost.

[Liv Perez]

So do I. Yeah.

[Julie Wainwright]

You could have two or three people in there.

[Liv Perez]

I've actually had a few friends buy shoulder pads on Amazon, like the different size ones, and just kind of get them either tailored into a dress or a jacket if they need, like, a little extra shape. And I'm not mad at that. I'm not mad at it.

[Julie Wainwright]

That's a lot of work, though.

[Liv Perez]

I mean, I would do it.

[Julie Wainwright]

Would you? I'm always afraid. You know what? I love designers so much. I'm always afraid of ruining their line.

[Liv Perez]

Totally. I'm talking about, like, more everyday pieces. Like, a good example is, like, I had a reformation jacket that I was. I was in New Zealand over the holidays, and it had big shoulder pads in it, and it's linen. And I paired it with a pair of linen pants the exact same color. And I had it on and I was like, I don't think the shoulder pads and the linen work. Like, it just. It felt like antithetical almost, in a way. And I literally cut them out.

[Julie Wainwright]

And then you get a nice relaxed thing.

[Liv Perez]

It was great.

[Julie Wainwright]

Yeah.

[Liv Perez]

And sure, I have maybe some scissor cuts in the blazer, but no one's seeing that on the inside. And I'm wearing the blazer all the time now.

[Julie Wainwright]

That's funny. Yeah. No, I get that. I think. I mean, my whole thing is if I go to the prime, if I buy, you know, in retail, and they're like, well, we can alter it here and here and here. And because I'm, you know, I'm just not that big. I'm like, no. Cause you're gonna lose the line. I think I. You know, that's true.

[Liv Perez]

There's only so far you can really go with altering.

[Julie Wainwright]

And I get. And I'm like, no, no, no. We have to try something else because this is beautiful by itself. But once you do what you say you're gonna do, it's gonna be. Dramatically changes it and it's not worth it.

[Liv Perez]

Yeah. And I can get a little crazy sometimes with my tailoring. I think I brought in a real, real Armani blazer that I bought that was like a size 8 and I'm a size 0. And I was like, oh, just tailor it down. And my tailor looked at me and was like, you're insane. I'm not doing that.

[Julie Wainwright]

Oh, really? What'd you do with it, resell it then?

[Liv Perez]

Yeah, I resold it.

[Julie Wainwright]

Yeah. You can only go so far.

[Liv Perez]

I know. So you mentioned in the beginning that you started the RealReal when you were 53.

[Julie Wainwright]

52.

[Liv Perez]

52, yes. Okay, 52. And I know you had so many other ventures before that. Tell me what your way in was like starting the RealReal at 52. You probably had so many other experiences before that, like, what was your way in?

[Julie Wainwright]

So I did. In fact, I was thinking about it today, and I didn't really write about it that much in the book, but I joined a company in 1990, I wanna say 1995, called Berkeley Systems. And Berkeley Systems was flying toasters, but they became a gaming company. I joined as the vp and the company was failing. And women quite often get opportunities when things are failing. They're basically like, let's throw a woman at it and see if they can fix it. Well, I did. I turned it around. We introduced this best selling game called you don't know Jack. The founders sort of stepped way aside and didn't show up for a while and then came back in and wanted to sell the company. But we already got online with that. So the company sold and I was CEO. Then I got invited to interview for a job at a company called reel.com, r, E E L. Oh, wow. All right. And it was the first site to sell movies online. So this is 1997.

[Liv Perez]

Okay.

[Julie Wainwright]

Could have been 1998, but it was early. And Amazon started in 1997. So literally, it was the beginning of e commerce. So didreal.com and that sold. This is sort of a funny story. We ended up again. The founder wanted to sell. I was the hired gun. I was the CEO. I think I got it up to around 40 million.

[Liv Perez]

Wow.

[Julie Wainwright]

The founder wanted to sell it. And Hollywood Video, which, if you don't know what it is, it's because they've been defunct since 2010. Bought it to try to get rid of the Internet. All right, to stop Internet distribution of movies because they had a video store and they were a big competitor with Blockbuster. Not as big, but a major competitor at the time. So then I got invited to interview for a company called Pets.com, which was being run in LA by some entrepreneur in his bedroom, in his condo. And it was out of control. And he had venture capital funding, and they said he didn't want to be involved. He goes, I don't know what I'm doing. So they asked me to come in. A venture capital firm asked me to come in. I said yes, and I took that, got it up. I think again, it's all public, wherever the record is. But another big number took it public very quickly and then shut it down because we couldn't get financing for the second round. And that we had this puppet, the pets.com Puppet, who became fairly infamous. And so in the year 2000, 2001, we had to shut it down. And then I sort of became like the person who failed big, right? But up until then, I had been a vp. I had started my career at Clorox in brand management. I went to a company called Software Publishing early on, which was 1983, in the personal computer industry. Ran international for them in my twenties, living in London, and then sort of had this wonderful progression of a career, then had a big fail and a big flip. And I mean, it was a big fail because everyone wrote about the dot com bust. In fact, that was 25 years ago. I actually spoke to a reporter last. A couple weeks ago, they were celebrating the 20. They're writing about the 25year.com bust. And I'm like. And he said, what did we get wrong? I said it was the beginning of the Future.

[Liv Perez]

Yes.

[Julie Wainwright]

And pets.com was the. You know, it's chewy. Dot com is the derivative of pets.

[Liv Perez]

Dot com, I'm sure there are so many of those. Like, so many.

[Julie Wainwright]

Well, Webvan.

[Liv Perez]

Webvan, yeah.

[Julie Wainwright]

Webvan, which lost about a billion dollars, failed. Wasn't written about as much as pets.com, but still, that's the precursor to Instacart and even Doordash.

[Liv Perez]

Incredible. There had to be some. Someone had to walk so we all could run or not, go get our groceries.

[Julie Wainwright]

I mean, that's the way startups work. You know, they. Sometimes they fail. Sometimes timing's everything. Sometimes you're too early.

[Liv Perez]

Yes.

[Julie Wainwright]

Sometimes you're not. But sadly, when Pets failed, I also got a divorce. And literally, he asked me for a divorce when I was shutting the company down the same day. So then I sort of. I went through sort of a bad funk and multiple. I mean, it was really bad and took multiple bad jobs. And I was really. When I look back at it, I was really letting that failure define me. And then. Did you ever see Moonstruck?

[Liv Perez]

Yeah, of course.

[Julie Wainwright]

Do you know when Cher snaps, you know, Nicholas Cage and said, snap, snap out of it. I had to do that to myself. Yeah, I had to snap myself out of it.

[Liv Perez]

I always think about failure in this way that, like, humans are not afraid to fail. Right. We're not afraid to mess up a recipe in the kitchen. We're not afraid to fail when no one's watching. But in a public way, I think everybody's afraid to fail. I, like, wonder for you, how did you turn that around?

[Julie Wainwright]

Well, look, I mean, it wasn't just in a public way. The press really came after me. And of course then I failed in my marriage. So that whether you can. I mean, that's how I viewed it at the time.

[Liv Perez]

Right.

[Julie Wainwright]

I would say I really let it define me for a while. And once I started, I knew I stopped. And then I talked to a recruiter who told me, no one's gonna offer me a good job. Cause I still had that big failure.

[Liv Perez]

I'm sure that guy's laughing now.

[Julie Wainwright]

I think he's retired. I think he's old. And anyway, that's when I said, I've gotta do something for myself. But it was not. I wish I would have snapped myself out of it faster. But I didn't. You can't go back.

[Liv Perez]

Timing's everything.

[Julie Wainwright]

You can't go back fast.

[Liv Perez]

You hit the right timing.

[Julie Wainwright]

And then I did a map of what Amazon. I knew I wanted to get back into commerce. I love commerce. And I did a map of what Amazon was great at and what they weren't great at. And I had explored doing organic makeup. Doesn't exist. Not shelf stable. I explored doing really more environmentally and human friendly, any kinds of detergents and cleaning products. Because there was only one at that time, Seventh generation. I thought, no, we can. I've kept thinking, there could be a better one. There's an. I knew that world because of chloride. And then I also realized Amazon will never do luxury. They don't understand the luxury market. Their site's not set up for it. But I wasn't gonna do a luxury brand. And that's where shopping became my aha moment. So I have a girlfriend I shop with regularly, and I bet you do too. So we go to one of her favorite boutiques down in Silicon Valley, right outside the Palo Alto shoe shop, just to look at shoes. But beautiful shoes. But in the back, there was an area called the vault, which was all consignment, and it was beautifully displayed. And that's where she spent her money. And she's a venture capitalist.

[Liv Perez]

What year Was this?

[Julie Wainwright]

Oh, 2010. So 2010 venture capitalist. And she's like, we got out of there. I'm like, have you ever walked into a consignment store? She goes, no.

[Liv Perez]

Yeah.

[Julie Wainwright]

And I said, but it was just.

[Liv Perez]

That one store in the back that.

[Julie Wainwright]

She would go to because it was beautifully displayed. She trusted the owner. And I kept asking her questions. And then I said, that's it. That is the next company. Researched the category. I had a name, and I had 100k of financing. And I was on a roll. So I'm like, well, I'm sort of doing it. So now I'm, you know, I'll let you know how it goes along. So that was the gen. That was my aha moment, though. And I knew it. I went, now I went through everything. I'm like, this is it.

[Liv Perez]

Yeah. I wonder for you what was the experience like of building the formula of the realreal? Because not only did you change the way that people shop in terms of sustainability in general and, you know, treasuring older pieces, but there are so many other things of the realreal that really make sense. So, you know, having someone come to your house and Help you clean out your closet, the 20 minute timer, like, how did all of those things kind of fall into place for you and feel like a necessary part of your business?

[Julie Wainwright]

So look, I think consigning before the real real was really too hard. You'd have to make it. You'd have to like, I'm gonna go to the store, I'm gonna drop it off. You didn't know when you were gonna get paid. Brick and mortar stores don't have the same velocity or, you know, they have whoever shows up about. If you're really lucky, 400 people would walk into your store in a week.

[Liv Perez]

Yeah.

[Julie Wainwright]

So we had to go to people's homes. And the other thing is, we didn't take everything. So we really were focused on luxury. And I'm sure anyone listening, if they were a real world customer, they got returns. Returns are horrible. When you get a return, you're like, really? You didn't take that? Or really, it was in bad condition. So in theory, if you have a really good sales associate who knows the brand, who understands quality and condition, they can work with you to be your advisor. And also, what's selling now, what's hot, what you should hold onto, because maybe it's not selling this fast. But if, you know, if you're in the mood to sell something and you know if you hold it for three months, you may get another season, it may move faster. So they should be advising people and then they should be helping to eliminate returns. So from the beginning, we had a sales model like that for those reasons you need making sure you pick up the right products, eliminate returns. And then we didn't have data at the beginning, but we knew we would and then act as an advisor. So it's very personal. You know, if you work with someone, they're in your home, they can be really helpful to you. So that was that way. And the 20 minute thing on the cart was because people were hoarding and no one was buying. But I mean, our goal really, and then doing the sustainability calculators, that came later. But our goal really was to just help people make the right decision as fast. And also this is the other thing that's really important. We wanted to price the product so it moved in 90 days. And the reason it needed to move in 90 days is we didn't want to build huge warehouses. And the other thing is, if it's not moving, especially when you have millions of people looking at the site, then the price isn't right.

[Liv Perez]

Right.

[Julie Wainwright]

So the goal was to move 90% of the product in 90 days. And I think they're still pretty close to that. I left there two years, if not on average, they're probably in the high 80s because that way, you know, you've hit the right price. You have all these eyeballs sitting there. Some things I've sold move the first second. You're like, was that price too low? But you know, you also can get lucky and have that customer look at it right away.

[Liv Perez]

A quick break from our conversation because while we're on the subject of places that I love to shop and you guys know that I absolutely love to shop at Jenny Kane. And I have a discount code for you guys. With summer now in full swing, we've got weekend getaways coming up, breezy evenings, summer barbecue, and all of those need, of course, the perfect outfit. Enter Jenny Kane, your destination for classic elevated pieces that make warm weather dressing easier than ever before. So much of my closet is Jenny Kane, and I really think what sets it apart is their commitment to quality. I. I have had so many sweaters from them for years that I wear at least two to three times a week that are in such great condition. They're made with the finest materials and everything is just so comfortable and effortless. You guys know I love my Flynn cashmere sweater. It's a great V neck that I pair with a little white tee underneath. It's kind of become a go to for me. And they have some beautiful seasonal colors right now, like this amazing camel color that I've just been wearing nonstop with my jeans. It's that perfect summer summer sweater. They also have amazing dresses, sandals, beach bags, and honestly, everything else you need for the summer ahead. So go find your new summer uniform. At Jenny Kane, our listeners get 15% off your first order when you use the code live. Liv at checkout. That's 15% off your first order. Quite a deal, guys. At J-E-N-N-I-K-A-Y-N-E.com using the promo code live. That's me. Let getting dressed this summer be one less thing you have to worry about. Did you have a hard time convincing people to buy consultants on a large scale? Like at that time, it wasn't as popular as it is now?

[Julie Wainwright]

No, no. And I'll tell you what we did, which I think is really important and I hope they stick to this. I know they're testing a lot of things, but I called it. We wanted to keep the romance of the brand alive. So we've always been more fashiony yes. And we've always talked about how making. We really wanted to make it cool and wearable. And even though we have mannequins that we shot on, we tested on people and people, it didn't work for some. I can tell you good people stories. I mean, it comes down to when we tried real people, right? Now you can use an AI generated person, and maybe they're gonna test that again. But when we started, we had real people. And by the way, there's a lot of money spent to real fashion shoots. So when you see the shoots we've always done. Yeah, but when you have, like, real people, we'd get complaints. Oh, that person's emaciated. Or they. That, that. Or I wouldn't wear it that way or why. All right, so that was a problem. And then the second thing is real people need food and they destroy things.

[Liv Perez]

Right.

[Julie Wainwright]

Well, if we destroyed someone, we own it then.

[Liv Perez]

Yes.

[Julie Wainwright]

So then we had to, you know, pay for things.

[Liv Perez]

And, you know, the liability of it all was just too high.

[Julie Wainwright]

It was too much and a lot of complaints. I mean, you know, people wanted to see themselves represented in the clothing. But, you know, we did trial. Real people, AI people. Maybe. Maybe they'll move to that now. I don't know. I don't know. But then. Then it's not a real person, so you don't know how it's going to fit in your body anyway.

[Liv Perez]

I've actually seen some, like, Instagram ads where it's on AI people. And I. It automatically, as a consumer, makes me not trust the brand because I think for me, AI obviously is not real. So my. My, like, gut immediately doesn't like it. Yeah, I'm not drawn towards it. I'm not like, oh, that.

[Julie Wainwright]

No, I understand that. Yeah, yeah, now I understand it. And it won't show how it lays on a good person.

[Liv Perez]

Right.

[Julie Wainwright]

But I can say the real, real fashion shoots are done with real people. And they're. You know, we put a lot of money toward it.

[Liv Perez]

Those I love.

[Julie Wainwright]

Well, we're. I always. I mean, I always think. And the thing is, it's not vintage, but resale is. You know, I headed stat, and I actually gave a talk in Madison, Wisconsin, to the students there. They wanted to talk about sustainability, and I wanted to talk about microplastics, because all of our oceans have microplastics in it. And scientists have now traced back the sources. 35% of the microplastics in the ocean is due to fast fashion.

[Liv Perez]

Wow. That's a huge percentage.

[Julie Wainwright]

Well, this put it this. They said fast fashion, and that's because mostly it's polyester. And polyester is plastic.

[Liv Perez]

Right.

[Julie Wainwright]

And we do not want plastic in our brains.

[Liv Perez]

Yeah.

[Julie Wainwright]

Yes.

[Liv Perez]

What brand do you think is on the ascent right now? That is like a must have on the RealReal.

[Julie Wainwright]

Oh, gosh. I don't have the numbers now. I can just tell you what I love.

[Liv Perez]

Go for it.

[Julie Wainwright]

But it all made change, obviously. But I became sort of a Loewe person only because it was interesting. I could still wear it, but it was a little offbeat.

[Liv Perez]

I would imagine it's still a high seller on the RealReal.

[Julie Wainwright]

Like I said, I don't have the data. You know, honestly, I'm sure, like Louis Vuitton still is. I'm shell. Hermes is. I'm sure Chanel is. I'm sure Gucci's fallen a little bit, maybe a lot, but it's still up there because the luxury brands are still coveted. I'm sure Cartier is still up there. All of those things happen on a regular basis. But. But I thought Bottega did some really interesting things, but it never fit me, so I couldn't really wear a Bottega. But I loved looking at it. I love the way they worked, the weaving even into the boots and the shoes. I love it. You know who goes in and out where I get really excited is Fendi.

[Liv Perez]

Yes.

[Julie Wainwright]

I know that sounds. But I mean, a good Fendi bag, a good Fendi.

[Liv Perez]

Fendi Ready to Wear is one of my favorites.

[Julie Wainwright]

Oh, that's funny.

[Liv Perez]

I love Fendi Ready to Wear.

[Julie Wainwright]

I wear it a lot. I love their knits, too.

[Liv Perez]

Yeah. One that I'm searching for a lot right now is Dree's.

[Julie Wainwright]

I love Dries, but, you know, the designer's changing. I went on a Dries buying pattern.

[Liv Perez]

Yeah.

[Julie Wainwright]

Love Dries.

[Liv Perez]

Yeah. I think with their sneaker, right now they're really making a comeback and also making a very concerted effort to attract a next generation younger consumer. And I find my. I've always loved Dries. Dreez was, when I was in college, my North Star. And now I find myself shopping it again, looking it up on the RealReal. And I think. I think there's one piece I want to buy. It's like this gorgeous suede navy dress. All right, it's in my cart. But obviously not because it's been 20 minutes. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I think authentication across the fashion industry is a very hot topic. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on it as like the real real has had commentary about that. I mean, at this point, I think every retailer, whether you're secondhand, thrift shop, whatever, I think that conversation always comes up. What do you think about it?

[Julie Wainwright]

I think it's really critical we set that up at the beginning and now. All right, so think, remember those numbers, I told you so think of like 7 million to 9 to 9 million products being processed. Every product's photographed. But let me just take a step back. There are patterns that you can identify on a consigner level for a consigner who also is most likely giving you fraudulent goods. Right. So when things come into the realreal and there's just tons of white bags, the consigner, if they're put down the swim lane that says extra time with this one, it means they've ident. They have all the hallmarks of our past. Now they may be fine, but on a machine learning basis they have a look like that. The other ones that actually have given us fraud goods, right. And then everybody. Things are first passed, most of it, most of it is being done especially for handbags. Clothing's a different thing through picture identification. And then humans need to get involved and that's where you develop all this deep expertise.

[Liv Perez]

Right.

[Julie Wainwright]

So it's huge. Now fine jewelry and watches. The realreal when I was there, had the most gemologists in the world. In fact, the space that we had for evaluating it was bigger than our second warehouse. It was over 30,000 square feet.

[Liv Perez]

Oh my God. Wow.

[Julie Wainwright]

And there's one here. There's might be more than one, but there's. Gemologists are spread all over. But there was one in Perth Amboy, one in Secaucus and then one in Scottsdale when I was there. Huge. Full of people training and retraining. But when you have all of that product coming through, you have a set of data that you know what a false positive or a fake one looks like because of historical. That doesn't mean they're. I mean look, people that counterfeit evolve so quickly and they're pretty evil. I tell a story of when someone sent thugs to my house. So yeah, because we wouldn't give them back the goods. So it's in the book. It was a terrifying moment.

[Liv Perez]

Wow.

[Julie Wainwright]

At night, beating on my door. And that night I happened to be home alone and it was terrifying. It was terrifying.

[Liv Perez]

Good book moment.

[Julie Wainwright]

Good book moment. Terrifying story. But counterfeiters evolve quite a bit. And here's the interesting thing. Right around Christmas, at least at the realreal let's say late October. It's almost like the counterfeiter chips come in and you start seeing repeats. It's like, okay, we got another one of these fake ones. We got another one of these.

[Liv Perez]

So you know exactly when you have a system at this point?

[Julie Wainwright]

Well, no, there's a huge system up front which is now really sophisticated. That's unparalleled just because the quantity, of course, a product that comes in and the years the company's been operating. So it's unparalleled. But you always. They're so. They're so evil. I mean, you have people taking apart Birkin bags, so you have, like, one thing on it that's authentic. And, you know. And other things. Oh, yes. I mean, these guys just keep doing it. Can I tell you one story, though, which is pretty funny? We. The socialite. I'm not going to. It's from a town in California, much photographed person, and wears Chanel a lot. The thing is, she doesn't wear real Chanel. She wore fake Chanel. She. She would get a piece, have her seamstress look at it, copy it, return the piece.

[Liv Perez]

Wow.

[Julie Wainwright]

And so she had fake Chanel, a lot of it. And she wanted to consign it from the real real in some of them. She had real buttons, by the way. And we're like this. And I mean, like hundreds of thousands of dollars if it was real.

[Liv Perez]

Yeah.

[Julie Wainwright]

Of resale value. So we had to. Normally, we would have actually called the police on her because that's the standard practice. We just said, we cannot authenticate this. Give us the receipts. Well, they didn't have receipts, so they were buying your blah, blah, blah. And I said, look, we can't authenticate these. I'm sorry. We're going to give you a pass on this first. And it was already like a couple hundred thousand. We're going to give you a pass, but we're not going to take this as consignment. If you do this again with us, we will confiscate all the goods. All right. Because that's what the company does. Right. So they hired a lawyer, and we're like, fine, bring the lawyer. Well, then they didn't. Then they dropped it, of course. Because it's fake. Because it was fake. Fast forward a year later, and the consigner's blacklisted. Right. So then that just automatically blacklisted. So they come back and they said, look, she buys real things now. And it's like, we don't believe you. You're blacklisted. And they tried to come back two more times. It's like, no, sorry. We're not ever gonna believe you. You should be lucky we did not call the police on you. So, you know, just shout out to.

[Liv Perez]

That seamstress making fake Chanel. Love that for her.

[Julie Wainwright]

Really?

[Liv Perez]

I just mean, like, wow, you have to be really talented to wear something that looks like Chanel.

[Julie Wainwright]

Oh, it was good. They were good.

[Liv Perez]

That's what I'm saying.

[Julie Wainwright]

They were good copies.

[Liv Perez]

Yeah.

[Julie Wainwright]

In fact, whenever we got a really good copy of something, it became a teaching moment. And the authenticators would get so excited. They're like, look how good this copy is. But it's still fake.

[Liv Perez]

Good experience. What's your favorite thing you've ever gotten on the RealReal?

[Julie Wainwright]

I would say, you know what? I'm probably wearing it. I would say my Cartier jewelry. I also have a beautiful. I mean, honestly, I love it. I still have handbags. You know, I have a Bottega handbag. I still have handbags that I'm not gonna. I have a couple puzzle bags that I got on the realreal. I have a Neverfull. I got in the real bag.

[Liv Perez]

That's a good bag. They came back last year, too.

[Julie Wainwright]

I love, love the Neverfull. I've got some Louis Vuitton duffels that.

[Liv Perez]

I love that's always been, like, on my wish list for a real, real buy. Like a Louis Vuitton duffel that I can just travel with.

[Julie Wainwright]

They're so gorgeous. And I got a couple of the specialty ones, you know, where they're like. They've done the flowers over it or something. I. If I think it has to go anywhere away from my body, you know, it can't be in the overhead. I will never travel with those except in my car, because I don't want it damaged. It's too gorgeous.

[Liv Perez]

They're beautiful. You really changed the game for fashion. But also female entrepreneurs. Where do you think there is room right now? Or if there's a specific division that you think is, like, ripe for innovation for maybe a female entrepreneur?

[Julie Wainwright]

Oh, gosh. You know what? First of all, can we just talk about some other females that have done amazing things, please? And they're obvious. So look, when I did the realreal, like, consignment had been there forever, but I re envisioned it. So, in fact, I did create a new category. But let's talk about Anastasia Sore, who did the eyebrows.

[Liv Perez]

Who does love iconic.

[Julie Wainwright]

All right. But eyebrow products have been out there forever.

[Liv Perez]

Yeah, she really.

[Julie Wainwright]

She made eyebrows important. She Built to build a category around eyebrows. And she was right. That's the other thing. She was right. So here she builds this billion dollar business from something. You know how many eyebrow products were out there? Every major makeup line had them.

[Liv Perez]

I think about me walking into cvs, there's like a thousand.

[Julie Wainwright]

And yet she made a business out of it. All right, let's go back to the OG Martha Stewart entertaining.

[Liv Perez]

Yeah.

[Julie Wainwright]

She's like, oh, this is a category I know how to make. It's incredibly aspirational. I can make that accessible for people.

[Liv Perez]

Totally.

[Julie Wainwright]

So there are those categories waiting around for people to make a huge business. And I would say look at the Depends what you want to do. If you want to create something big, look at the opportunities. You have a new platform now you have AI. All right, so let me. And I'm going to talk about my AI wish list, which is actually technically not hard. You're a repeat customer. Right. Of the realreal. But you're probably a repeat customer of other places online. And so online, as a repeat customer, your most important customers are your repeat customers. You should be able to say into your computer or your phone, look, I'm looking for a pair of black boots. Can you get a dressing room ready for me? And they should understand, like, I never wear low heels. They should understand. And I can say, you know, they can show me every black boot they have.

[Liv Perez]

Yep.

[Julie Wainwright]

And then just to get my interest, like, oh, and we threw a few of these on. But it should be my size based on my preferences. There should be none of that filtering at all. I should just have a dressing room and the AI. I've been shopping at multiple. I shop at probably six different department stores and then boutiques have a little wider than that. But online, six different places. And then if they're really smart, they also know what my. Because I tend to wear similar things. I don't tend to wear that big of oversized things. Then they can say, here are some few things that will complement it.

[Liv Perez]

Yeah.

[Julie Wainwright]

And we noticed that you like this type of jewelry. Here are some things that will complement it. But it should be my dressing room. And I'm looking for. And they should say, welcome back, Julie, here's your room right now. I'll give you one of my pet peeves, let's say, and I told you already, I love Dolce suits. But yet, you know, there's only a few that I love. And I love Alexander McQueen. I'm looking online. I don't want to buy it online. I know it's going to need some alterations. Also, I don't want those massive shoulder pads. I'll go with the little shoulder pads. I would love to. To be able to call the store and say, do you have this? I'm looking at it. And so I do call the store. And none of them have them in the store. All right. They're like, well, you can have it shipped to your house. I don't want it shipped to my house. I wanna have a shopping experience. Well, it'll take three or four days. And I'm like, yeah, okay.

[Liv Perez]

Okay, fine.

[Julie Wainwright]

But I don't even know if. And I hate the ones that say, oh, do you wanna buy it? And then we can always return. I'm like, no, I want you to have it in the store because it's online now. Is this feasible? Of course it is. They know exactly what's in the Soho store because it's not that hard. And you can filter by store, and when it sells in the store, it automatically shows as sold online. That is table stakes. And the fact that you can't look at a boot like a website and then find it in the boutique of the same brand is ridiculous.

[Liv Perez]

I agree with you completely. I love how passionate you are about the industry and innovations. And I wonder, for you, having gone through so many different iterations of your work life, what advice do you have for someone who maybe is in their 20s and 30s and just hasn't found their thing yet?

[Julie Wainwright]

Number one, be careful of who you surround yourself with your people around. You do matter. All right, so it matters. So you really want to be around people that are energizing.

[Liv Perez]

Find your creative.

[Julie Wainwright]

So find your creative people. Whether it's creative, and I don't care what it is. Find your people, number one. Number two, so it's all about the people around you. And then I wrote, but it's all about you. So the other thing is, when you have an idea, you have to treat it as precious. But ideas aren't anything until you put it into action. But still treat it as precious. If you want to be an entrepreneur, the key is take that idea, test it. Understand you don't want to waste your time on something that doesn't have a big potential or has a competitor. Make sure it's salient, but then execute as fast as you can. Because the other thing is, if you have that idea, it's probably in the ether somewhere. Someone else is going to do it too. And how you execute is the difference. So I would say it's all about your team, your expanded team. And then it's all about you. Don't listen to the naysayers. So many people will tell you no. And then lastly, I would say you got to play the long game. So it's so important because you're going to have, you know, the old chutes and ladders and, you know, in England they say swings and roundabouts and you will, you know, things will go well. Things won't go well. But there. And I'm actually giving a lesson that I didn't actually follow myself until I did, which is every failure is a learning opportunity. Everything that comes at you is something that will add to you. It won't stop subtract from you at all. And if you look at it that way, it changes your perspective. So play the long game. But those are sort of your magic formula. You know, great people around you. Believe in yourself. It's like all about your team. It's all about you. And then play the long game.

[Liv Perez]

Thank you so much for being here. Your book is coming out. Six weeks.

[Julie Wainwright]

Six weeks. Time to get real. Time to get real.

[Liv Perez]

I'm so excited for you. And I've just started it. I can't wait to finish it. You brought me another copy today, which I can't wait. But where can we find the book? When? What date is it out?

[Julie Wainwright]

Amazon. It's out June 9th. Amazon. Barnes and Noble is running a special. So Barnes and Noble. And then it will be in brick and mortar stores, too.

[Liv Perez]

Incredible.

[Julie Wainwright]

It.