Taylor Swift Style: Decoding Eras, Iconic Looks, and Showgirl Glam with Kirbie Johnson

Summary

Let’s Get Dressed: Taylor Swift Style — Decoding Eras, Iconic Looks, and Showgirl Glam with Kirbie Johnson

Podcast: Let’s Get Dressed
Host: Liv Perez
Guest: Kirbie Johnson (Beauty and red carpet reporter, co-host of Gloss Angeles)
Date: October 6, 2025

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Overview

This episode is a dedicated deep-dive into Taylor Swift’s seismic influence on fashion, beauty, and celebrity branding, coinciding with the release of her new album, Life of a Showgirl. Host Liv Perez and guest Kirbie Johnson examine how Swift’s fashion choices, marketing genius, and relatable style have not only defined musical eras but also redefined standards for celebrity authenticity and trendsetting, both on and off the stage.

They break down Swift’s strategic use of color, clothing, and makeup; discuss her avoidance of high fashion trappings; explore the calculated ways she engages with beauty brands (or resists them); dissect trend cycles she touches off (hello, orange!); and playfully speculate about her much-discussed wedding look. The conversation is informal, analytical, and packed with insider observations relevant to Swifties, fashion fans, and pop culture watchers alike.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Taylor Swift’s Relatability and Intentional Style (05:11–08:55)

• Relatable Aesthetic: Kirbie emphasizes that many of Swift’s style and beauty choices are intentionally approachable, keeping her connected to her fanbase rather than “serving high fashion.”

  “I like that she doesn’t do what we all think she should be doing... That’s all intentional and it’s to keep herself relatable to her fan base.” — Kirbie [05:11]

• Strategic Branding: Each Swift “era” has distinct visuals and moods, meticulously constructed to tell a cohesive story that her audience can participate in.
• Avoidance of Fashion Shows and Runways: Both note that Swift rarely attends or participates in fashion shows—a point of differentiation that keeps her grounded while avoiding the "high fashion girl" label.
• Consistency & Theming: Even when critique surfaces (e.g., street style discourse), Liv and Kirbie agree her sticking to a thematic look is powerful and intentional:

  “She sticks to the era, the theme. Like, we know what we’re getting.” — Kirbie [08:01]

2. Brand Partnerships and Beauty Campaigns (10:56–14:13)

• Minimal Direct Endorsements: Swift is notably selective about beauty and fashion partnerships, a stark contrast to peers like Olivia Rodrigo and Sabrina Carpenter.
• Total Narrative Control: Her refusal to attach herself to external brands is seen as both a risk-mitigating move (avoiding brand controversies) and a move toward Beyoncé-esque control of her own iconography.

  “She doesn’t want to be aligned with a brand that could get canceled for something... She is meticulous about who she aligns herself with.” — Kirbie [12:21]

• No Swift Beauty Line: The hosts debate the likelihood (or lack thereof) of a Taylor-branded beauty line, both ultimately agreeing that it would not feel authentic—her “deep cut” fragrance moment from the Speak Now era aside.

3. Trendsetting Power: The Orange Era & Beyond (14:31–18:39)

• The Orange Effect: Following Life of a Showgirl’s announcement, the beauty and media world erupted with pitches and content about “orange” as the new shade—even infiltrating interior design trends.

  “Architectural Digest has a story about how Taylor Swift has influenced colors within the interior design world... It’s not just fashion and beauty—it’s everything.” — Kirbie [16:27]

• Skepticism and Impact: While Kirbie wonders whether fans will truly adopt orange makeup, Liv points out Swift could very well drive an “orange beauty” microtrend if she continues to lean in. The red lip, however, remains the most iconic detail.
• Makeup as Era Signature: The transition from red to nude or orange lips is scrutinized, with Kirbie revealing possible product identifications (e.g., Pat McGrath Elson 4, Nars Morocco):

  “Will people run to the store to pick it up [Nars Morocco]... Obviously. Will we ever find out? We don’t know.” — Kirbie [20:57]

4. Fashion Statements & Cultural Imprints (18:39–23:27)

• Stage Iconography: Swift’s looks are so recognizable they’ve become Halloween mainstays. Kirbie highlights the Eras Tour bejeweled bodysuit, winged eyeliner, and especially the red lip:

  “If you’re doing Taylor Swift and you don’t have a red lip, you’re doing it wrong.” — Kirbie [19:27]

• Accessory Power: Friendship Bracelets & Watches: Liv identifies friendship bracelets as a unique form of grassroots fashion trend, and together they praise the understated flex of Swift’s Cartier Tank watch—a discerning nod to luxury that’s simultaneously “one of us.”

  “The Cartier watch—I have dreams about this watch. That is such a flex.” — Kirbie [24:03]

• High-Low Marketing Mastery: Swift doesn’t “shill” for products, instead using her own life and wardrobe (e.g., the orange Gucci dress, Vivienne Westwood bridal dress) as “silent advertisements” that generate organic demand.

5. Wedding Look Speculation and Signature Style (27:12–29:08)

• Anticipation & Fantasies: Both speculate on Swift’s potential wedding look—will she choose iconic Vivienne Westwood, all-American Ralph Lauren, or something understated and Carolyn Bessette-inspired?

  “I’d love to see her hair straight with the bangs, like a curtain bang... maybe just a low, soft pony. I just want it to look like this is me.” — Kirbie [28:24]

• Signature vs. Public Persona: Liv muses about the difference between Swift’s public “signature look” and her private self, suggesting we’ll never truly know the latter.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Swift’s Fashion Intention

  “Why are you committed to not serving right now?... There has to be a reason for it. She is a mastermind, and it really is because she has a vision of what she wants each particular era of her life to emulate and to represent.” — Kirbie [05:11]

• On Her Avoidance of Trend-Chasing

  “If she walked out tomorrow in something that Schiaparelli showed on the runway yesterday, I’d be like, that’s confusing…that’s just not what the brand has been.” — Liv [09:40]

• On the Orange Trend After the Album Drop

  “I got a ton of pitches. Once Life of a Showgirl was announced about orange…does anybody really care? Do people want to wear orange on their face? I don’t know…But then, Architectural Digest has a story about how Taylor Swift has influenced colors within the interior design world.” — Kirbie [14:48–16:27]

• On Her Relatability and Flexes

  “She loves to be one of us...the most coveted watch. I’m wearing it too. I’m not going to pretend like I’m better than any of you and wear something different.” — Liv [25:35]

• On Signature Red Lip & Makeup

  “If you’re doing Taylor Swift and you don’t have a red lip, you’re doing it wrong.” — Kirbie [19:27]

• On Branding Without Brands

  “She’s advertising without throwing it in your face...she’s not selling me anything but her. And that’s rare.” — Liv [23:13]

• On Potential Wedding Choices

  “I don’t want her to be in a big Speak Now moment...I’d love to see her hair straight with the bangs, like a curtain bang.” — Kirbie [28:24]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Episode Overview: 00:02–01:20
• Kirbie’s History with Taylor Swift Coverage: 02:47–04:45
• Relatable Fashion and Avoiding Fashion Show Circuit: 05:11–09:55
• Brand Partnerships, Endorsements, and Control: 10:56–14:13
• Orange Trend Discussion & Swift’s Impact: 14:31–18:39
• Stage Iconography & Trendsetting Mechanics: 18:39–23:05
• Silent Flexes: Cartier Watch, Vivienne Westwood Dress: 23:27–25:47
• Wedding Speculation & Signature Look Musings: 27:12–29:08

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Summary

Liv Perez and Kirbie Johnson masterfully dissect Taylor Swift’s enduring and calculated influence on fashion and beauty, showing how her “everygirl” persona, refusal to chase trends, and innovative era-building have allowed her to become a uniquely powerful, agenda-setting figure in pop culture. Swift is praised not for being a fashion plate, but for using fashion as narrative, for being “in on the bit,” and for controlling her image with a savvy rare among artists of her scale. From color trends to iconic accessories and wedding fantasy drafts, this episode is a must-listen for Swifties, fashion obsessives, and anyone curious about how style and celebrity collide in the streaming era.

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Transcript

[A]

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of let's get Dressed. It's your host, Liv Perez. I hope you're all having an amazing start to your week. As always, thank you so much for kicking off the week with us today. I am so excited to be deep diving into somebody who I believe is a fashion and beauty marketing mastermind, and that is the one and only Taylor Swift. In honor of her new album that came out last week, the Life of a Showgirl, I really wanted to do an episode talking about her impact on on fashion, beauty, the marketing industry, and her genius approach to marketing her new albums and eras. So today I'm joined by beauty and red carpet reporter and the co host of the Gloss Angeles podcast, Kirby Johnson, to decode how Taylor uses clothes, color and makeup to build her world and how relatability has become one of her strongest fashion statements. We break down some of her most iconic style moments, from that red Vivienne Westwood mini dress to the beauty and fashion brands that she aligns herself with and how she's completely rewritten the rulebook when it comes to celebrity branding. Plus, WeChat Orange. Is it trending right now because of the new album? Cartier watches, friendship bracelets, and what we would love to see her wear on tour and, of course, at her wedding. I hope you guys love this episode. Let's go get dressed with Kirby Johnson. Hey, Kirb.

[B]

Hi, boo.

[A]

I'm so happy you're here.

[B]

I can't believe we're doing this for the first time.

[A]

It's weird that we're doing this for the first time.

[B]

I know. And then I was at the event and you were too. We didn't even see each other.

[A]

We were feet away from each other. Did I reach out to you that day or was it the next day? I think it was like.

[B]

I think it was the next day.

[A]

Which is so funny because I saw your content and I was like, we were right there. I should have just IRL'd her, but I didn't even know. I loved. What was that blue dress you were wearing?

[B]

It was Katie Mae.

[A]

It's beautiful on you.

[B]

And I knew I met Katie Mae many years ago through a friend, and she was just starting out, and now look at her. She's like, on revolve, what is your color? Thank you.

[A]

It really, like, I almost could have thought that you had blue eyes.

[B]

Wow. Thank you. Growing up, I always wanted blue eyes.

[A]

So if you have brown eyes, you grow up wanting blue eyes.

[B]

100.

[A]

Just the way it goes. You have beautiful eyes and I love the glam today.

[B]

Thank you. I wanted to do a little wing in honor of our queen, Taylor Swift.

[A]

Happy Taylor Swift Day.

[B]

Happy Taylor Swift Day. October 3rd. I can't believe it's finally here.

[A]

So we've never done an episode like this on the pod, like a full deep dive of a person. And I'm really excited about it. You are someone who I was like, anytime I think of Taylor Swift commentary, I think of you because I think you have such a one pointed opinion and a great point of view. But also you've been writing about Taylor for almost two decades now.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

In my research, I think I was finding blog posts from you from like 2008.

[B]

Yes. Like a long time.

[A]

Yes. Since like her. Her early days.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What was your first introduction to Taylor?

[B]

So she. It was debut. Her debut album, Country Girl. I grew up in Texas, so country music was a big part of my upbringing. And I remember just seeing like this curly haired blonde chick when I was in College. It was 2007, and my friend Molly, who is from Kansas City, was like, hey, there's this girl, Taylor Swift. And I really like her music and I think you will too. And we like physically had the cd, you know. Oh, wow. And she was adorable. And we were like, great. This is cool. And I mean, I truly feel like we've grown up together in a way. I am like, if Taylor is a freshman, I'm a senior, so.

[A]

Got it. Okay.

[B]

We have these similar kind of college, high school, if you want to call it that, trajectories. And it's really interesting to hear her music and how it's evolved and then also how she went from one genre to another. Cause I was a pop girl too, right. Like, Britney Spears is my queen. To this day, no one will speak ill of my girl. Like, I'm obsessed with her. And she influenced so many girls back in the late 90s, early 2000s. And of course loved NSync. Like they. It was Britney and NSYNC for me. But I remember, you know, obviously loving country music. And then when 1989 came out, I have to give her credit because she could have just completely flopped. And people have been like, this doesn't work. And she could have been completely shunned by the country music, you know, genre in general. But I think people see her fondly and still, you know, love and respect her, because I think she started with them. But I think with Taylor being a massive superstar, basically, they were like, well, she paid her dues. She was a country musician. I think if she wanted to go back to country. They would let her with open arms.

[A]

So you have been covering fashion and beauty on red carpets in popular culture for so long now.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And obviously, as I mentioned before, Taylor Swift has been such a poignant part of that for you. What makes her so interesting to you specifically? Especially as someone who. I love reading your writing, especially on substack, where the adults are, because you, you have such an analytical point of view paired with years of experience. So you've seen it all. You've seen the marketing, you've seen the industry shifts. So what is it for you about her that has made it stick?

[B]

I like that she doesn't do from a fashion and beauty standpoint. I like that she doesn't do what we all think she should be doing, in my opinion. I don't love a lot of her makeup looks. I don't love a lot of her fashion decisions. But. But that's all intentional and it's to keep herself relatable to her fan base. Yes. She knows how to turn it up. And of course she knows how to look beautiful. She knows how to, like, really turn it out. But at the same time, I'll be like, what was. Why are we wearing those shoes with this dress? Like you. Why are you committed to not serving right now? Like, and in my head I'm like, there has to be a reason for it. She is a mastermind, and it really is because she has a vision of what she wants each particular era of her life to emulate and to represent. Every good pop star does this, but she does it in a way where she keeps it attainable for her fan base. And that's what I think. Like, that's. It's not why she endures. Her music is why she endures. And obviously people she's beloved. But from the fashion and beauty standpoint, I think that that's why people continue to talk about her and she continues to be a think piece for people like me or for people on the Internet that just want to commentate.

[A]

There is that Instagram account that's like, have you seen it? It's like, things I wish Taylor Swift would wear.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I actually am on the opposite team of that.

[B]

Like, I've seen it, but I haven't actually deep dived into it. So what is it?

[A]

So it's just an account that has, like, her photoshopped on, like, the most current or maybe most popular looks from the Runway. And it's funny, it doesn't resonate with me and I'm a Fashion girl. Yeah. Like, I've always, you know, anytime, you know, there's so much critique around what her street style is. And I've never been in that camp because for me, first of all, I'm not someone who likes to critique what people are wearing anyways. I'm like, wear what you love. That's the camp I'm in.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But I also will say that when I look at that account and I see her photoshopped onto these other, like, high fashion outfits, I'm like, that doesn't make sense to me.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Like, that's just not what the brand has been. And I completely agree with you that I think it would make her feel out of touch. And for me, as a consumer, as someone who's been listening to her since I was in the eighth grade, like, I like that she feels like a friend. Like, I like that she feels like my neighbor or somebody who is emulating what is being worn and showed in real life.

[B]

This is such a good point, because I agree with you. I don't like critiquing how people look. It's like one of my things. Like Fashion Police, of course. Joan Rivers, may she rest in peace. She's the only person that could, like, really ever pull that off in a funny way. But my whole thing is when you see somebody on a red carpet, either they feel their best and you're critiquing them and taking them down, or they're already insecure and nervous, and then you're kind of validating that for them.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

So I really don't resonate with that at all. When it comes to Taylor, my perspective is this. I may not like everything that she wears or some of the decisions behind. I'm like, I'm constantly in my head, I'm thinking, why did she do, like, where was the strategy? What was the strategy with this? But I give her credit for it because she sticks to the era, the theme. Like, we know what we're getting. It's like, yes, when it was folklore and evermore, like, you got this, like, fall coziness. Even though, like, you know, folklore are. Folklore was released in July. Like, why do I remember this? July 24th. Like, we're in the throes of the pandemic. I know, it's crazy. I don't know if police.

[A]

I kind of weirdly love this for you.

[B]

Like, why do I remember this?

[A]

Anytime I need anything, I'm coming to you for the factoids.

[B]

I'm like, this is crazy. Like, J. Lo's birthday. What? Okay. So what I know. I know this.

[A]

You're good at your job.

[B]

I just don't understand.

[A]

You're good at your job.

[B]

Remember these things.

[A]

I love that for you.

[B]

But, like, it was this cozy moment. Obviously, we were like, cozy in our homes. Cause it was the pandemic. But, you know, the coats, the fall, like her. Her little tendrils with her hair, like, the more clean makeup, like, she wasn't wearing, like the red lip. It was very. Just like natural, earthy fall. You get the showgirl, obviously. Now it's like the glitz and the glamour. She's got the wings, she got the red lip. We even gotten, like a orange lip and a nude lip from her. You know, her bejeweled eyes that she did with Pat McGrath for midnights. And that Elson 4 lipstick that, like, keeps selling out because, like, Pat mentioned that that was what was used on her from her makeup artist, Lori Turk. So.

[A]

So it works.

[B]

It works. It works.

[A]

It wouldn't be selling out if it didn't work.

[B]

It works.

[A]

Like, if she walked out tomorrow in something that Schiaparelli showed on the Runway yesterday, I'd be like, that's confusing because.

[B]

We don't see her as a high fashion girl.

[A]

No. And I think that that's intentional.

[B]

And we never see her at fashion shows.

[A]

I've never. I don't think she's ever been to it.

[B]

I don't. I truly. If she has, I. I've not tell you. Yeah. In, like, almost 20 years of reporting on her, I do not think I've ever seen her attend a fashion show, be a part of a fashion show. This actually kind of leads me to another topic that I'm so passionate about when it comes to her. And she is very, very strategic about who and what she lets promote her and who and what she represents. She did a CoverGirl ambassadorship when. I mean, I think it was 2013. It was like, very early aughts. I had just started at Popsugar, and she wasn't wearing red. She was wearing, like a nude lip. And she had really dark, black, smoky eyes going. And ever since then, she will maybe mention a product here and there. Like when she was doing her secret sessions where she had fans at her actual house to release, like, 1989 and, you know, a few other albums. I think someone happened to ask her, like, what her favorite red lip was. And she mentioned Nars Dragon Girl, the matte pencil. And people have mentioned in the past that, like, on a cover, she's worn red lipstick, like, Mac Ruby Woo. And then really since then, all you have is Pat McGrath, you know, obviously being in her bejeweled video, doing the makeup for that video, and then mentioning that they used the Elson 4 Liquid Lip, to be exact.

[A]

Exact guys.

[B]

But she does not. You don't see her glam team, Jenna and Lori, posting like, you see Sabrina Carpenter's glam team or Olivia Rodrigo's glam team.

[A]

Do you think that that's calculated 100%?

[B]

I think that Taylor Swift, first of all, she's got more money than God.

[A]

But let's take it back 10 years from now when that financial number wasn't the epicenter of everything you think about when it comes to her. Like, if we're talking about fashion shows and we're talking about fashion campaigns and beauty campaigns. I know you just mentioned the covergirl one, but even now, you see, if we're gonna keep talking about Olivia Rodrigo and Sabrina Carpenter, like, you see Sabrina Carpenter at Dior, you see them engaging.

[B]

In and working with Redken and working with Redken and Prada.

[A]

Exactly. Like, you see this crossover between music, entertainment, fashion, and beauty. And that does put them in this very different category for me. And I wonder what you think that is about Taylor, that she won't touch what it means for her career in general.

[B]

I think that she is just meticulous about who she aligns herself with. She doesn't want to be aligned with a brand that could get canceled for something because she has no control over that. Right. And the people that work at that brand or the founder of that brand. Right. I think she has taken a. A page out of Beyonce's playbook in a way. And. And, like, let's remind everybody that Taylor, born in 1989, Beyonce, born in 1981. So, you know, I do not want to say the word elder, but she is like the older sister in this scenario. And Beyonce did work with L' Oreal at one point, but that was like, mid, mid 2010s, I would say around, like, 2015, 2016. You were only seeing Beyonce promote Ivy park, and then now Sacred, her hair care line, which I always say is Ms. Tina's line. And Beyonce's the face of that. But they. They want to be in charge of the narrative around them specifically. And Taylor is like, I will pay Lori. This is all speculatory, but I believe she's like, I will pay Lori and Jenna handsomely so that they don't have to depend on getting these outside brand partnerships in order to sustain a life that they deserve. To live. And I don't shade anybody for getting their bag or for any of these brand partnerships. It's just the way of the world now. But I think that that is. You're exactly right. It's what separates people like Beyonce and, like, Taylor Swift in the grand scheme of things. Taylor Swift is, I think, the only major superstar that doesn't have a beauty line at this point. And people keep asking me, do you want her to have a beauty line? And I say, no, I actually, I don't. I don't want her to do that. It doesn't seem like a passion for her deep cut.

[A]

But that fragrance back in the day, I mean, was amazing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I wore it in High School, 100%. What was it? It was in the Speak now era.

[B]

Yeah. And it. Was it purple? It was purple, Yeah. I can't remember the name of it.

[A]

It was fantastic. Yes, I wore it. That's so crazy.

[B]

And I wonder, was that Elizabeth Arden fragrances? I can't remember. I'm like, I wonder if it still exists or if that licensing has now probably died.

[A]

I'm going to go on a deep dive and find it. I'm curious if you think that she. Because obviously of her style being something that is. There's a lot of critique around it, of course. Do you think that she is actually driving fashion and beauty trends? Where do you think that she has found her strength in driving those moments?

[B]

That's such an interesting question, Liv, because I don't know. I got a ton of pitches. I'll put it this way. I got a ton of pitches. Once Life of a Showgirl was announced about orange, it was like the next day, like, orange lipsticks, orange blushes, to keep on your radar. And I thought to myself, does anybody really care? Like, do people want to wear orange on their face? I don't know. But then, I mean, I use an orange blush from Glossier and an orange blush from Fenty that I think are stunning. Orange lipstick, maybe not so much.

[A]

Before you carry on, can you elaborate on the orange blush a little bit? Because I'm curious, is that shading orange or is that just giving you this, like, peachy glow?

[B]

It gives you this peachy, almost bronze. It's a mix of, like, I feel like peach and bronze. So, like, if you're tan, it's beautiful.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because it just looks like the sun kissed your cheeks a little. Little bit.

[A]

We love that.

[B]

Yeah. So that's a lot. I. I love wearing that, especially during the summer and spring. But I. I remember thinking, okay, I'm getting these pitches for orange, like, and I even got reached out to by a writer saying, hey, I'm. I'm writing a story about Taylor Swift's impact on different shades in the beauty industry. What are your thoughts on the orange thing? And I was just like, I don't think I have anything to offer of interest here, because I don't see it happening. It literally. She literally just announced the album. Right. But then, sure enough, when I was doing research before I came on this podcast, there's like a million. Like, Architectural Digest has a story about how Taylor Swift has influenced colors within the interior design world with data behind it. Yes.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And also a story from them as well that's like, orange, like, what you need to know about, like, Taylor Swift's new era color, like, which is crazy that Architectural Digest has something like that, you know, so it's not just fashion and beauty. It's touching. All Taylor Swift drives clicks. So now every single media company wants to know, okay, how can we get on? What. What does this look like for us? Okay, we can't talk about lipstick. We can't talk about fashion, but we can talk about a couch or rug design, which is kind of crazy to think about because I. We both work in media, and we know this. People are just going to talk about what's going to get them clicks, whether it's true, whether it's false, whether it makes a lot of sense or it doesn't. It's just the name of the game these days because everybody's fighting for ad revenue. That's, you know, it determines how many people are visiting your website. So what are we. What are people going to do to get you to their website or their social platforms? They're going to talk about people like Taylor Swift and, like, Blake Lively and, like, Beyonce and Sabrina Carpenter or whoever is at the top of the totem pole at that given moment.

[A]

I think she could sell orange beauty.

[B]

Really? So you might be right.

[A]

If there's anything she sells me on, it's great beauty. Like, no one convinces me to do a winged eyeliner more than Taylor Swift.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Even today. You know, I was watching clips of her doing the radio show promotions last night.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And she was wearing this gorgeous, like, orange Saint Laurent sweater. V neck, cashmere. It was really nice and with, like, kind of a muted orangey lip. And look, I'm not sitting here saying that orange is going to be on my lips anytime soon, but am I tempted to maybe do something that feels a bit lighter than a red. You Know, mixing things up a little bit. Yeah.

[B]

For me, I love it. Because it's not red, right?

[A]

You're like, anything.

[B]

But she does red. Specifically.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's eye catching, especially on stage. Like, you need to be seen by the people that are in the cheap seats in the back. And at a Taylor Swift show, nothing is cheap. Right. So, like, you want to make sure every person in that stadium can see at least something on your face. And it's going to be the red lips.

[A]

And that's the life of a showgirl baby.

[B]

That is the life of a showgirl baby. So she's thinking strategically in that way. And also I talk to people about this. Cause I enjoy talking about stuff like this. Like people like, oh, it's your job. I'm like, yeah, but I love it. That's why I do it. When you become a Halloween costume, you know you've made it.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

You've made an imprint on the people. We know. Taylor Swift. And there's a few ways to do it. You can do curly haired Taylor with a sparkly dress and a guitar. You can do 22 ERA Taylor Swift.

[A]

What would you do?

[B]

I would do. If I was doing Taylor Swift, I would probably do like the cute bejeweled bodysuit with like the red lip, the straight hair and a guitar. Like I was on Eras tour.

[A]

What do you think has been most iconic in terms of what's made an impression on fashion and beauty?

[B]

It's. It's most of them, which are the wing liner with the red lip. But like, red. Red lip is a key part of like all of these Halloween costumes, I think is the point I'm trying to make. Like, if you're doing Taylor Swift and you don't have a red lip, you're doing it wrong. You're doing it wrong. Even if you're doing Debut, when she doesn't have a red lip, like people are throwing on red lips because that's just what you associate with Taylor. You know, I think about it like hairstyles. So that would be Tina Turner's hair. Like iconic. Cher has a variety of different hairstyles that you can look to and say, okay, if you're wearing a certain Bob Mackie inspired outfit with the long black hair, you know that someone is attempting to be Cher. Right. So, so with Taylor, it's like if you do Taylor without a red lip, is it really Taylor? So there's that aspect of it, the red lips. But I love that now with Life of a Showgirl that like muted orange, it's almost coral in a way. But I consider it a nude on her because it is so close almost to her undertone. And I think. I don't know if it's been confirmed, but her makeup artist, Lori, has mentioned that she has used a very similar shade. And it's Nars Morocco. Ooh. And so we're like, is that. Is that what she's wearing? I mean, the day it's revealed, will people will, like, be running to the store to pick it up? Obviously. Will we ever find out? We don't know, because, again, that's just promo for something that is not under Taylor's jurisdiction.

[A]

So this is where the fashion girl in me comes in. I was kind of excited about Orange because there is a high fashion, texture like aspect to it.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So I was like, oh, is she gonna lean in a little bit? And, like, even listening to the album, she was in this custom orange sequin Gucci dress. And I was like, oh, that is, like, beyond stunning. So fashion. So perfectly orange.

[B]

She pulls off orange so many people cannot. One thing that she had told us, I think it was during the New Heights podcast because it was the only promo she did, basically, besides the countdowns on her website, was that orange is exuberant, it's happy, it's positive. And, like, even though behind the curtain, some things were going down and they weren't the best, she was happy. It was positive. Like, she. Things that were normally bad to her were becoming positives. Like in Honey, it's obviously about Travis, but she says that when people called her sweetheart, it was dismissive and, you know, patronizing. When they called her, you know, honey, they were like, that dress doesn't fit you, honey. But he calls her honey, calls her sweetheart. And now those negative things are now a positive thing for her. So I understand why she went with Orange. And also, again, the mastermind of it all, she walked through the orange door at the last era's tour show.

[A]

From a fashion marketing perspective, thinking about when Travis was on stage with her, changing her out of the tortured poets department and into the showgirl, I was like, this is genius. Like, I love the way that she uses clothes to tell her story. And whether people like it or not, it is all part of a master plan. And I even think back to the question I asked you earlier. Like, does she indicate trends? Is she a trendsetter? And while I'm sitting here saying, like, you know, she might not be, like, a dua lipa, for example, who sold me that Chanel 25 bag this summer? Like, no other.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Like, while she might not be that was I walking around for the last two summers and saw stacks of friendship bracelets on people's wrists for over a year.

[B]

Absolutely, 100%.

[A]

So it might just. To me, it's just kind of this new form of fashion marketing that I think is really different than what anybody else is doing.

[B]

She's advertising without it throwing it in your face.

[A]

Absolutely. And if anything, what I think is great about it is she's not advertising anything but her.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, she's not selling me anything but her.

[B]

Yep. And that's rare.

[A]

So I can't think of anybody else who does that.

[B]

That's so, so rare for somebody at her caliber. Because I'm sure plenty of brands would try to figure out ways to get the money to throw at her to mention one thing or another. And she doesn't have to. You don't see product placement with her. You don't see, like, random inclusions of brands in a song where you're like, why? Why is she mentioning Chips Ahoy?

[A]

You know, I will say, the one fashion flex that I loved of hers, and it stood out to me because it was the first time I've ever seen anything like this was the Cartier watch.

[B]

Okay. The Cartier watch.

[A]

I was like, whoa.

[B]

No, the Cartier. Whoa.

[A]

What's that?

[B]

The Cartier watch. I have dreams about this watch. I'm like, that is such a flex that I can't even begin to compute, like, how amazing it is that she. She is like a watch connoisseur.

[A]

I was like, yes, show me your watch collection, please.

[B]

No, I'm like, I would die to see your watch collection. Show me more. I'm like. Because that is, like, taste level that, like, I think people don't associate with her sometimes.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And, like, that's not just like, I'm rich, so I bought the most expensive thing I could find. I mean, that's a thing that, like, everybody covets. That's like, this is so stunning. And only a certain amount of people can, like, acquire that. That particular thing, you know?

[A]

Can I tell you what I love about Taylor Swift? Yes, she's in on the bit. For example, the Cartier watch is a good one.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

The Tank has been trending for two, three years now. It's probably the most desired watch. You see it all over the realreal right now. Everybody wants a tank. I also think about the Vivienne Westwood dress that she wore to the Grammys earlier this year, and she also wore it on tour for Tortured Poets Department. That dress is the most popular bridal dress in the game and has been for the last five years that the version of that dress that is the bridal dress has been everywhere.

[B]

I mean, I was obsessed with that dress before. Like, I saw her wearing it and so I. I think that she just took it to the next level without again having to say a word. Like, I don't think that she. I don't think I ever saw an interview with her being like, this was Vivienne Westwood. I think it was just like, you.

[A]

Knew, but like, more so. I just love that she's. She loves to be one of us. She loves to be one of the girls. Like the most coveted watch. I'm wearing it too. Like, I'm not going to pretend like I'm better than any of you and wear something different.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The hottest dress that everyone's wearing to get married in. Yeah, I want to wear it on tour too. Like, love that she doesn't ever try to seem like she's out of touch in that sense. And I think that from a fashion perspective, for me, that's really meaningful.

[B]

I like that you say that she's in on the bit because that's. I think my exact point is that she knows exactly what she's doing. I think a lot of people just see her still as like this little blonde, curly haired chick, you know, she writes pop songs. You read some of her. Her lyrics that of course are never gonna translate, like, when you read them versus, like, listening to them. Right. Like, because pop music in general, people don't take pop music as ser as they should.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, it's fun, it's frivolous, it's euphoric, it's exuberant, but it's kind of like almost how people think of comedy in a certain way versus a drama at the Oscars. Right. Like, pop music isn't supposed to be serious, but, like, she takes serious things and makes them into really good, catchy pop songs. And it's all intentional. She's in on everything. That's what I. When people say they don't like her, I'm like, that's fine. You don't have to. Like, I'm not gonna push anything on anybody, but you cannot judge somebody because you read a lyric on an Instagram post. You have to listen to the music and actually like, listen to her catalog because she's an amazing storyteller and some of the best songwriters in the world have written praise for how amazing she is as a songwriter.

[A]

I'd be remiss if we wrapped up this episode and didn't talk about some wedding things, especially from your pov.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

From a beauty perspective, from a fashion perspective, what do you anticipate? What are you excited about?

[B]

Oh, my gosh. I don't know. Will she wear Vivienne Westwood? Like, that's like, I want to know what her gown is going to look like. I. I have a very. I don't want. I just. I. I'm like, okay. I see her in her eras. Right. Like, her different types of dresses. I don't want her to be in a big, like, speak now moment.

[A]

So that's always my first thought of her, because that's what I grew up on, like, the Zuhair Marads, like, that era for her. I think something that I found really interesting is in her engagement. They both were in Ralph, and then Selena, for her wedding, just wore Ralph. So Ralph is having a fantastic year all around. But I wonder if that will be integrated in any way, because it does feel all American, which is so tied intrinsically to her brand.

[B]

I. And I don't know, we mentioned this on Los Angeles, where I was like, I would love to see her in almost like a Carolyn Bessette moment. Understated, maybe something silk. Like, she has this amazing tall, lanky figure. Right.

[A]

She could throw us for a loop.

[B]

Right. I'd love to see her hair straight with the bangs, like a curtain bang.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Maybe just like a low, soft pony. Like, I don't want it to look too fussy. I think that's my. Where I. What I keep going back to. I just want it to look like, this is me. I don't want a red lip. I don't want a red lip. I don't want it.

[A]

You heard it here first.

[B]

I really don't want it. But, like, if she does it, I will be fine. Not like my opinion matters at all. It's her wedding day. She needs to look like herself. So what does. What does. I just want to know. I would love to talk to her and be like, when you look at yourself, what is your signature look? You have your signature look for the public. What is your signature look? Just with Travis or just hanging out?

[A]

I think we will never know that. And I think that that's the mastermind of Taylor Swift.

[B]

Yep. You're so right.

[A]

Thank you for coming on the pod.

[B]

Thank you for.

[A]

This is so fun. I could do this around for, like, three more hours, guys. Go listen to Los Angeles. It's such a good beauty show.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I'm so glad to have had you here. Thank you for talking about this. Thank you.

[B]

Of course.

[C]

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