Let's Give A Damn – Episode #272: Munther Isaac

Release Date: November 12, 2024
Host: Nick Laparra
Guest: Pastor Munther Isaac

Episode Overview

In this powerful and deeply moving episode, Nick Laparra sits down with Rev. Dr. Munther Isaac—Palestinian Christian pastor, theologian, and academic dean at Bethlehem Bible College. Together, they discuss the ongoing genocide in Gaza, the unique intersections of faith, activism, and identity in occupied Palestine, and Pastor Munther’s role as a global voice for justice. This episode offers listeners a profound exploration of hope, righteous anger, and the messy, courageous work of bottom-up change.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Urgency of the Present Moment ([00:37]–[04:23])

• Nick frames the ongoing crisis in Gaza as a "litmus test for all humanity," highlighting the West Bank violence, worsening famine, and mass killing of Palestinians.
• He connects U.S. complicity—funding and arming Israel—to broader Empire-building and systemic injustice.
• Nick introduces Pastor Munther: a leader whose life and ministry have become a beacon for many in this painful, pivotal year.

Quote:
"I talk about Gaza so much because I believe, I genuinely believe that the Palestinian struggle is all of our struggle. How we respond to this genocide is how we are going to respond to everything else in life."
—Nick Laparra ([01:27])

2. Munther’s Personal and Spiritual Roots ([06:33]–[15:58])

• Munther describes growing up in Beit Sahur (Shepherd's Field, near Bethlehem), within a Greek Orthodox family and evangelical church; his early love for the Bible and commitment to personal faith.
• His identity has always been shaped by both his faith and the political reality of Israeli occupation—from the First and Second Intifada, through daily life under military rule.
• He reflects on the lifelong wrestling with scripture and the meaning of "chosen people," beginning as a 14-year-old writing his first theological essay.

Quote:
"Wrestling with the Bible has always been part of my upbringing... What does it say about violence, about the enemy? Does it say the land belongs to our occupiers? Even as a 14, 15 year old, I thought of such."
—Munther Isaac ([10:49])

3. Evangelicalism Re-examined: U.S. vs. Palestinian Contexts ([15:58]–[21:55])

• Munther distinguishes Palestinian evangelicalism—a tradition profoundly shaped by context, justice, and a communal understanding of the Kingdom of God—from its U.S. counterpart, which he describes as fractured and often co-opted by Christian Zionism and political interests.
• Stresses that justice and advocacy are central, not peripheral, to the Gospel in Palestine.
• He notes that for many, American labels and debates over doctrine or translation feel disconnected from the real struggles of their daily lives.

Notable Moment:
"Bottom line, Nick, don't try to put me in a box. We are a different context, different ways. What matters most: How can we bring the gospel into people's life in a real way?"
—Munther Isaac ([20:33])

4. Munther’s Journey from Engineering to Pastoring ([23:38]–[27:02])

• Munther’s early passion for theology and music eventually trumped an initial career path in civil engineering (chosen to please his parents).
• His university years—amid political upheaval—solidified his calling to ministry, leading to theological training at Westminster in the U.S. and a return to Bethlehem Bible College.
• Joining the Evangelical Lutheran Church marked a pivotal shift; he now values the church’s structure, accountability, and communal focus.

Quote:
"I realized early on that, you know, I don't believe [belong on] the construction sites. However, I finished and got the degree. Then I just followed my calling passion... this is how I can help my people."
—Munther Isaac ([24:32])

5. The Global Impact of "Christ in the Rubble" ([31:51]–[46:34])

• Munther recounts the origins and global virality of his “Christ in the Rubble” sermon, sparked by a massacre at a Gaza church and his pastoral struggle with anger, despair, and the seeming silence of God.
• The image and sermon resonated far beyond Bethlehem, serving as a rallying cry and theological anchor for millions worldwide. It provided a spiritual framework for resistance, lament, and shared humanity amid genocide.
• Munther experiences both pride and guilt at the reach of his message, wrestling with the tension between advocacy and the never-ending trauma endured by Gazans.

Notable Quotes:
"When we search for God, we find Him under the rubble in Gaza... in every child pulled from under the rubble."
—Munther Isaac ([39:48])

"What good does it do that many listen, and send supporting messages, or began doing advocacy... but more than a year after the war started... we're still pleading that this war stops... part of me feels grateful. Part of me feels guilt."
—Munther Isaac ([44:45])

• He describes a significant impact in the Arab Christian and Muslim worlds, where his leadership and faith-based advocacy have been both praised and criticized for their political engagement.
• Munther draws attention to the unique horror of a war "defended with the Bible," intensifying the moral crisis for Christians globally.

6. On Faith, Grassroots Power, and America’s Political Trap ([49:27]–[60:43])

• Nick invites Munther to address U.S. listeners directly, many of whom feel helpless or complicit as their tax dollars fund occupation and genocide.
• Munther exposes the limits of U.S. democracy as experienced in Congress: "those with power and money control the outcome."
• He warns against investing salvation in a corrupt system or any one political party, emphasizing that "change has to come from bottom up… through small acts of good, raising awareness, and repentance."
• Draws inspiration from Palestinian Christian leader Michel Sabbah: “Jesus didn't say, if you have numbers and money, you can move mountains. Jesus said, if you have little faith…”

Notable Quotes:
"If the United States, or the world for that matter, has any hope, it can't be by whoever we elect… Change has to come from bottom up."
—Munther Isaac ([52:49])

"So much energy is put by people of faith... to elect one candidate over another, given the impression that salvation lies within that person… You're not thinking biblically about things and definitely not aligned with the agenda of the Kingdom of God."
—Munther Isaac ([56:50])

Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• [01:27] Nick Laparra: "The Palestinian struggle is all of our struggle. How we respond to this genocide is how we are going to respond to everything else in life."
• [10:49] Munther Isaac: "Wrestling with the Bible has always been part of my upbringing... Does it say the land belongs to our occupiers? Even as a 14, 15 year old, I thought of such."
• [20:33] Munther Isaac: "Bottom line, Nick, don't try to put me in a box."
• [24:32] Munther Isaac: "I realized early on that... I don't believe [belong on] the construction sites... I just followed my calling passion... this is how I can help my people."
• [39:48] Munther Isaac: "When we search for God, we find Him under the rubble in Gaza... in every child pulled from under the rubble."
• [44:45] Munther Isaac: "What good does it do that many listen... but more than a year after the war started... we're still pleading that this war stops... part of me feels grateful. Part of me feels guilt."
• [52:49] Munther Isaac: "If the United States, or the world for that matter, has any hope, it can't be by whoever we elect… Change has to come from bottom up."
• [56:50] Munther Isaac: "Salvation is not found in a corrupt political system... so much energy is put by people of faith... to elect one candidate over another, given the impression that salvation lies within that person..."
• [59:50] Munther Isaac (citing Michel Sabbah): "Jesus didn't say, if you have numbers and money, you can move mountains. Jesus said, if you have little faith..."

Timestamps of Significant Segments

• [00:37]–[04:23] — Nick’s introduction, contextualizing Gaza and the global stakes.
• [06:33]–[15:58] — Munther’s upbringing, faith journey, and political formation.
• [15:58]–[21:55] — Comparison of Palestinian and American evangelicalism.
• [23:38]–[27:02] — Munther’s vocational shift from engineering to pastoring.
• [31:51]–[46:34] — "Christ in the Rubble": sermon, global impact, conflicting emotions, and Arab world responses.
• [49:27]–[60:43] — Munther’s challenge to Americans: grassroots change, rejection of authoritarian/partisan hope.

Tone and Memorable Moments

• Deeply personal, honest, and at times anguished; Munther often lays bare his internal conflicts, the weight of responsibility, and his complicated feelings about being thrust into a global spotlight.
• Nick and Munther share mutual vulnerability, discussing trauma, hope, and the cost of advocacy.

Memorable Moment:
Munther describing his viral sermon:
"Honestly, I can't but wonder, does God care or listen? You know, where is God when this happens?... I said, when we search for God, we find him under the rubble in Gaza."
([38:57]–[39:48])

Key Takeaways

• The Palestinian struggle reflects universal questions of justice, faith, and humanity; silence, complicity, and selective morality—especially among people of faith—are part of the problem.
• Hope lies not in political saviors but in conscience-awakening, grassroots organizing, and small, faithful acts of resistance.
• Munther’s theology is one of solidarity, lament, and a God found not in power, but in joined suffering and small acts of goodness.
• Listeners are called to broaden their vision of faith and activism, and to join in global, bottom-up transformation—however slow, costly, or unglamorous.

Further Information

• Upcoming book: Christ in the Rubble: Faith, the Bible and the Genocide in Gaza, available for pre-order ([61:00]).
• For more links and ways to support: letsgiveadam.com

Final Thought (Munther Isaac, [52:49]):
"Change has to come from bottom up. This takes time. This takes a lot of awareness raising. This takes a lot of courage and self reflection and repentance for... all the mess that your tax money has caused all over the world."