Podcast Summary: Let's Talk Off Camera with Kelly Ripa

Episode Title: Dr. Ramani Durvasula: Narcissists and How To Deal!
Release Date: November 26, 2025
Host: Kelly Ripa
Featured Guest: Dr. Ramani Durvasula (Clinical Psychologist, NYT Bestselling Author of "It's Not You")
Notable Call-Ins: Andy Cohen, Kelsey, Christine, Lisa

Overview of Episode

This energetic and candid episode dives deep into the complex topic of narcissism—how to recognize it, how to cope with it (especially during high-conflict times like the holidays), and how it affects relationships of all kinds. Dr. Ramani Durvasula, one of today's leading experts on narcissism, offers practical guidance for listeners wrestling with narcissistic partners, friends, co-parents, and family members. The episode features listener call-ins with real-life scenarios, including from Andy Cohen, and explores strategies for protecting yourself without sacrificing your empathy or boundaries.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Narcissism and Spotting the Signs

• Not Just a One-Off Behavior:
  Narcissism isn’t a label to throw around lightly; it's a pattern, not an isolated incident.
  • "[People say]: 'My friend blew me off for dinner, they’re a narcissist,' … Maybe, maybe not. You can't just go on one thing… We're looking for stuff that happens over time." (Dr. Ramani, 14:31)
  • Key traits include chronic competitiveness, entitlement, lack of reciprocity, refusal to apologize, and habitual blaming.
• Popular Misuses:
  The term "narcissist" is often misapplied and diluted.
  • "People attach it to everything… Like I said, one time a person is not nice to them, 'Oh, they're a narcissist.' I don't know about that." (Dr. Ramani, 15:57)

2. Is There “Healthy Narcissism”?

• Dr. Ramani pushes back strongly on this idea:
  • "Healthy narcissism is sort of like healthy heroin. There's no such thing. It's bad. It's always bad for you." (Dr. Ramani, 16:20)
  • What we call "healthy narcissism" is actually healthy ego—assertiveness without entitlement, boundaries without insults.

3. Dealing with Narcissists: Radical Acceptance & Disengagement

• Don’t try to “win” or get the narcissist to change.
  • "Your best approach is wise and warm disengagement… Make the conversation about them and you and pretend it's a really boring podcast… But you don't want to get in the mud with them." (Dr. Ramani, 19:03)
• Radical Awareness: Recognize their limitations; stop expecting support, empathy, or fair treatment.
• Holiday Survival: Tailor your exposure, keep interactions shallow, and don’t over-share.

4. Gaslighting Explained

• It’s not merely lying or disagreeing; it’s a pattern of eroding someone’s perception and sense of reality.
  • "Gaslighting is when you doubt the memories, the perceptions, the experience of another person… And then you tell them there's something wrong with them… that combo is gaslighting." (Dr. Ramani, 20:42)

5. "Winning" with a Narcissist (Andy Cohen's Question)

• Indifference Is Power:
  • "If you really do want to hurt them, you can't show any emotion… If you can really communicate with your eyes and your face that you pity them, you've just won. Because there's nothing a narcissistic person hates more than the idea that somebody pities them." (Dr. Ramani, 44:16)
  • Don’t try to convince them; your lack of reaction, or mild pity/contempt, is your only leverage.

6. Narcissism and Trauma Bonding

• Sometimes, victims stay in toxic relationships due to the intermittent reinforcement of good/bad times.
  • “Narcissistic relationships are what we call trauma-bonded relationships… that back and forth and that tendency to blame ourselves keeps everyone… feeling stuck.” (Dr. Ramani, 28:58)

7. Parenting, Co-Parenting, and Narcissism

• Talking to Children:
  Telling kids their parent is a narcissist complicates their loyalties and is often counterproductive.
  • "You can't tell the kids you think their dad is narcissistic… Even kids feel loyalty, even to the most abusive parent." (Dr. Ramani, 38:48)
  • Instead: Listen, empathize, never gaslight, and be the safe space.
• Center the Victim (e.g., the Child):
  • “Center the child. That’s what matters here… You don’t have to be rude… but don’t knock yourself out trying to do all this love, compassion stuff… it often is gonna get weaponized and used against you.” (Dr. Ramani, 35:21)

8. Narcissism and Addiction

• There are high rates of overlap.
  • “The research shows actually quite a bit of overlap between the two… People who have the presence of both addiction and narcissism… tend to feel much more entitled about it, make more excuses about it… even when… sober, their sober is better than everybody else's. I'm the king of sobriety, you know?" (Dr. Ramani, 49:42)

9. Narcissistic Parents—Real-Life Impact

• Narcissism is best understood as a personality style, not a treatable illness.
  • “I’m not a fan of calling narcissism a mental illness… It’s a personality style… often can come out of a dark place… but the majority of kids who grow up with adversity don’t become narcissistic.” (Dr. Ramani, 54:08)
• Healing requires accepting the limits of the relationship, focusing on self-worth, and maintaining boundaries.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The “Healthy Narcissism” Myth:
  "It’s sort of like healthy heroin. Like, there’s no such thing. It’s bad. It’s always bad for you."
  – Dr. Ramani, 16:20

• On Winning Arguments:
  "If you can really communicate with your eyes and your face that you pity them, you’ve just won. Because there’s nothing a narcissistic person hates more than the idea that somebody pities them."
  – Dr. Ramani, 44:16

• On Trauma Bonds:
  "…even when a person’s like, ‘this is not healthy, but I cannot seem to get out of it,’ it’s often created by that alternation between good and bad."
  – Dr. Ramani, 28:58

• On Parents and Loyalty:
  "Even kids feel loyalty, even to the most abusive parent."
  – Dr. Ramani, 38:48

• On Setting Boundaries:
  "Your best approach is wise and warm disengagement… Make the conversation about them… pretend it’s a really boring podcast."
  – Dr. Ramani, 19:03

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [13:18] – Dr. Ramani Introduction: How she became an expert on narcissism
• [14:31] – Main signs and patterns of narcissism
• [16:20] – “Healthy” narcissism? Dr. Ramani’s strong stance
• [19:03] – Coping strategies & disengagement advice for holidays
• [20:42] – Gaslighting: What it really means
• [28:58] – Trauma bonds and the struggle to break free
• [30:21] – Navigating friendships you can’t just “cut off”
• [31:26–36:19] – Kelsey in Arizona: Supporting a child while dealing with a narcissistic adult
• [36:33–42:39] – Christine in Ohio: Co-parenting with a diagnosed narcissist
• [43:08–46:49] – Andy Cohen’s call: “How do you win against a narcissist?”
• [49:42] – Connection between narcissism and addiction
• [51:51] – Lisa in Ohio: Growing up with a narcissistic mother; impact and recovery

Episode Tone & Style

• Candid, Unfiltered, and Sometimes Playfully Irreverent: Kelly Ripa’s humor and honesty drive the show, while Dr. Ramani’s expertise and compassion anchor the advice.
• Empathy for those affected is front and center, with validation for people’s experiences (“You are doing great,” “Give yourself space for that hurt.”)
• The show blends professional insight with real-life scenarios and witnessing, making complex psychological concepts relatable and actionable.

For New Listeners

If you’re dealing with narcissism in any area of your life, this conversation will give you clarity, validation, and concrete steps to protect yourself and set boundaries. Dr. Ramani offers not just definitions, but survival strategies—radical acceptance, wise disengagement, and understanding your own worth beyond a narcissist’s reach.

Dr. Ramani’s Book:
"It's Not You" – Highly recommended by Kelly and referenced multiple times as the go-to guide on this topic.

For more resources or to join Dr. Ramani’s network:
Visit dr-ramani.com

Episode highly recommended for anyone seeking to understand narcissism, especially ahead of potentially stressful holiday interactions.