Heather Gay: RHOSLC + Surviving Mormonism (Re-Release)

Summary

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Podcast Episode Summary

Let’s Talk Off Camera with Kelly Ripa
Guest: Heather Gay (Real Housewives of Salt Lake City star, author of Bad Mormon & Good Time Girl) Episode: "Heather Gay: RHOSLC + Surviving Mormonism" (Re-Release)
Release Date: January 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively and revealing episode, Kelly Ripa sits down with Heather Gay, breakout star of The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City (RHOSLC) and author of Bad Mormon and Good Time Girl. The conversation covers Heather’s departure from the Mormon church, how fame and independence changed her path, the taboos and rituals of Mormonism, the nuances of housewife relationships, and her personal journey from devoted mother to an empty-nester ready for love. The tone is candid, humorous, self-reflective, and unfiltered, as Kelly and her team probe taboo topics, “cultish” religion, Bravo scandals, and what it means to reinvent oneself publicly.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Surviving Mormonism & Writing "Bad Mormon"

• Leaving the Church & Breaking Taboos

  • Heather describes the deeply secretive and ritualistic nature of the Mormon temple, disclosing garment customs, secret handshakes, and vows of silence about temple ceremonies.
  • "We make vows in the temple that will never reveal any of it or will basically disembowel and cut our throats." (Heather Gay, 12:22)
  • Fame, financial independence, and her father's passing empowered her to tell her story:

    “Fame, mostly. Fame and independent income... [and] my dad also passed away, and that kind of opened up a different... just a different... you don't have the fear of disappointing your parents once they've passed away.” (Heather Gay & Kelly Ripa, 12:09-12:17)

• Cult, Zealotry, and Secrecy

  • Heather now admits she sees the Mormon church as “cult-like,” especially after leaving. She details extreme obedience, hierarchical control, and insularity.
  • "If you want to call us a church, then we are religious zealots... We wear all of our devotion on the inside." (Heather Gay, 15:07-15:54)

• Social Ostracism

  • After leaving, she’s shunned by some but faces kindness in person:
    • “To my face, they are kind and wonderful, and then... I’m not invited over for Sunday dinner. But they won’t read the book. They won’t watch the show. They won’t acknowledge anything that’s any value that I’ve, like, garnered from being on TV or from writing the books... That holds no currency where I live.” (Heather Gay, 17:19-17:41)

Inside Mormon Rituals & Culture

• Temple Attire and Ceremony

  • Temple garments described as full white outfits, with green fig-leaf aprons, veils, paper hats, and secret group rituals. The secrecy is enforced with dire oaths.
    • “We wear head to toe white, but then we wear a stark Kelly green fig leaf apron over our loins and we veil our faces... and everyone's dressed head to toe in white... We do secret handshakes, we do tokens, we do secret rites of passage...” (Heather Gay, 13:26-14:08)

• Soaking & Chastity Loopholes

  • Heather breaks down the infamous Mormon practice of “soaking”:
    • “Soaking would be if the penis were a sponge and the vagina were a bowl of water. You just place it in and no motion, no movement. It’s insertion with no movement, no thrusting, just soaking.” (Heather Gay, 19:28)
  • “Jump-pumping”—having a third person create bed motion—debunked as an urban legend at BYU, due to fear of being tattled on.

• Soft Swinging

  • Common among Mormon couples, especially as they age and seek excitement without officially breaching religious codes.
    • “They want to see what’s out there, but they don’t want to leave their marriages... They dabble, they dip their toes in. And I think it’s a way to maintain, you know, both worlds.” (Heather Gay, 24:58)

The Business of Mormonism

• Church Wealth & Social Scene
  • RHOSLC reflects the financial affluence and ambition within Mormon culture.
  • Heather: “The church is worth $260 billion. Like, they'd never — that's, it’s, it’s a huge, huge institution.” (Heather Gay, 18:48)

Becoming a Housewife & Reality TV Fame

• Casting & Family Fallout

  • Heather was scouted via Lisa Barlow and was initially only a “facilitator.” She kept her participation secret from family and church until it was too late to back out.
    • “Zero conversation... I did not tell a single soul until it was set in stone. And then I told my bishop, and he told me not to do it. And if I did... to make sure... if I was at any public event that I carried around a glass of milk so that no one would think that I was drinking. Meanwhile, I was already drinking.” (Heather Gay, 28:04-28:44)
  • Realized she couldn’t hide the truth from a TV audience:
    • “I knew that I could pull the wool over the church’s eyes... but... you cannot fake it with the viewing audience.” (Heather Gay, 31:13)

• Sacred Garments & Housewife Fashion

  • Required Mormon garments are described as constrictive, but most castmates secretly don’t wear them, highlighting the performative side of “righteousness”.
    • “You can’t call yourself a Mormon wife if you’re not wearing your garments, right?” (Heather Gay, 31:53)

Dishy Bravo Topics: Cast Dynamics

• Jen Shah & Excommunication

  • Declines to discuss ("pass"); no contact since Jen Shah's prison sentence began; not worried about a future run-in. (35:16-36:10)
  • The infamous “black eye” incident was as confusing to Heather as to viewers—she didn’t cover for Jen, just didn’t know what happened and was protecting herself and Jen.

• Monica Garcia, Moles, and Betrayal

  • Shocked anyone (e.g., Whitney) would stay in touch with Monica after it was revealed Monica was a “mole” (a fake friend for the show).
    • “There was no world that she would have been in our world and been our friend. And how are we supposed to process friendship with someone that was never our friend to begin with?” (Heather Gay, 38:14)

• On Bronwyn, Conflict & Friendship

  • A rough start, but now in a much better place:
    • “I really love these women. I love fighting with them, but I love getting along more... I am a people pleaser. I am a go along to get along girl.” (Heather Gay, 39:23)

• Cast Trips & Crossovers

  • Season featured trips to Greece and the British Virgin Islands (with a 'Below Deck' crossover).

• Lisa Barlow’s True Self

  • Lisa is exactly the same off-camera as she is on; her consistency is noted, even if it sometimes frustrates.
    • “If it is a persona, it runs so deep that I've never seen anything otherwise... She just is consistently herself.” (Heather Gay, 50:01-50:28)

• Salt Lake City Cast Loyalty & Friendship

  • Heather notes that the RHOSLC cast is especially tight-knit because their shared experience is so unique in their insular community, and her old Mormon social circle is gone.
    • “We have been together for six years... My whole life was transformed with these women... They are all I have... There are not a lot of women business owners that have these same experiences. We are all each other’s got in Salt Lake City.” (Heather Gay, 51:38-52:34)

Modern Life: Dating, Motherhood, and Next Chapters

• Motherhood & Dating
  • Heather describes years of sacrifice post-divorce, prioritizing raising her daughters over personal fulfillment or romance—but now, with her girls grown, she’s open to finding love:
    • “Now that the girls are leaving, I’m really going to change my focus, and I’m excited about it.” (Heather Gay, 55:45)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Mormon Ritual

• “We do secret handshakes, we do tokens, we do secret rites of passage and we do oral ritual and prayer, like with hand motions in mass.”
  – Heather Gay (13:28)

• “We make vows in the temple that will never reveal any of it or will basically disembowel and cut our throats.”
  – Heather Gay (12:22)

On Fame & Independence

• “[What changed was] fame, mostly. Fame and independent income.”
  – Heather Gay (12:09)

On Cults & Devotion

• “It’s the church in its entirety... We are zealots. If you want to call us a church, then we are religious zealots.”
  – Heather Gay (15:07)

On Reality TV Authenticity

• “You cannot fake it with the viewing audience.”
  – Heather Gay (31:13)

On “Soaking”

• “Soaking would be if the penis were a sponge and the vagina were a bowl of water. You just place it in and no motion, no movement.”
  – Heather Gay (19:28)

On Soft Swinging

• “They dabble... They want to see what’s out there, but they don’t want to leave their marriages... I think it’s a way to maintain, you know, both worlds.”
  – Heather Gay (24:58)

On Lisa Barlow

• “She just is consistently herself... I just like it makes me feel comfortable. Even if I’m mistreated, I just want to know what I’m going to get.”
  – Heather Gay (50:28)

On Cast Sisterhood

• “Without them, I would not be living the life I’m living... We are all each other’s got in Salt Lake City. And I think that makes a unique friend group and possibly a unique franchise in reality tv.”
  – Heather Gay (51:38-52:34)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Time | Segment/Topic | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:53 | Kelly introduces Heather Gay, themes of Mormonism and RHOSLC | | 12:22 | Heather describes Mormon temple secrecy and garments | | 14:36 | Is Mormonism “cult-like?” Discussion and personal impact | | 17:19 | Heather on community ostracism after leaving the church | | 19:28 | Deep dive into ‘soaking’ and sexuality loopholes | | 24:58 | “Soft swinging” in Mormon culture | | 28:04 | How Heather kept show participation secret from family/church | | 31:13 | Why she couldn’t fake it as a TV housewife – authenticity | | 35:16 | Quickfire cast relationships: Jen, Monica, Bronwyn, Mary, Lisa | | 39:23 | On fighting and making up with the cast, people-pleasing | | 50:01 | Lisa Barlow’s authenticity and persona | | 51:38 | RHOSLC cast’s unique bond, friendship, and finding new belonging | | 54:11 | Heather’s dating life, motherhood, and hopes for the future |

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Conclusion

This episode offers a compelling, candid, and at times hilarious look inside Heather Gay’s spiritual, social, and personal transformation. With unguarded reflections on Mormon tradition and Bravo fame—plus plenty of behind-the-scenes dish on Real Housewives dynamics—listeners are treated to an authentic account of what it means to step out of faith, break taboos, find community in new places, and start over at any stage of life.

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Summary prepared to capture the essence, tone, and notable moments of the episode for listeners and fans of “Let’s Talk Off Camera with Kelly Ripa.”

Transcript

[Kelly Ripa]

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[Kelly Ripa]

Hey, everyone. Welcome to my podcast. Bravo, fans. Today I'm bringing you the woman who wrote the book on being a bad Mormon, but But is always the good time girl. Real Housewife of Salt Lake City star Heather Gay. Heather sat down with us to discuss leaving the church, the dynamics between the women, and how she's ready to find love. Let's take a listen.

[Heather Gay]

I think that self preservation is often misconstrued as kissing someone's ass. I believe it's smart emotional intelligence to learn who you can push and who you can't.

[Kelly Ripa]

Somebody gotta cue me or do I cue myself?

[Heather Gay]

Cue yourself.

[Kelly Ripa]

Okay. All right. We are back with another episode of let's Talk off camera. So let's get talking. Ever since we interviewed Oprah, I can't stop saying it with my Oprah voice.

[Jan Chalet]

I love the Oprah voice.

[Kelly Ripa]

I mean, it just gives and gives.

[Jan Chalet]

I can watch that social media clip over and over again of her talking about it.

[Kelly Ripa]

Let me tell you something. Very rarely, not since Lola Consuelos have I gotten that much feedback from people I know listening to my podcast.

[Albert Bianchini]

And what was the feedback?

[Kelly Ripa]

They just loved her. And it's so funny. These are people who are our peers.

[Heather Gay]

Yeah.

[Kelly Ripa]

And they had forgotten Oprah's origin story. Wow. So, Jan, good on you. And good on your sons for not knowing Oprah other than Oprah the billionaire. Because people in our group who should know better have forgotten.

[Albert Bianchini]

And if you missed that episode, Albert does an excellent Oprah impersonation himself.

[Kelly Ripa]

He does, but shocking. I didn't know that.

[Albert Bianchini]

Albert also does a great Andy Cohen.

[Heather Gay]

Which I just heard.

[Jan Chalet]

Listen to this going on. There's all this chatter.

[Geico Advertiser]

Kelly.

[Kelly Ripa]

What? Do it again.

[Jan Chalet]

Let's Talk about Oprah. Let's talk about Andy at some point. But we all do that. Kelly does it too. It's not that hard to do.

[Kelly Ripa]

None of us are doing Andy. Not even Andy. We are all doing Kristen Johnson. That's the clear. We are all, even Andy, are doing an impersonation of Kristen Johnston. Okay? She is the originator of all of our collective voice. Okay, sweeties, guys. Bravo fans. God, we have so many Bravo fans. And these girls deliver. People are endlessly fascinated by the Real Housewives. And today we are talking to our guest who wrote the book literally on going from a bad Mormon to a good time girl. She's proof that even if you're excommunicated, you can still be divine. That's right. We are talking with Real Housewives of Salt Lake City's iconic Heather Gay. You know, Jake Shears from Scissor Sisters is downstairs right now preparing for his Madison Square Garden show tomorrow night. When this airs, I don't know, but it will have passed. But he is the biggest Salt Lake City fan and he has an event to do right now or he would be here. Cause he's dying to, like, co interview Heather Gay with you.

[Jan Chalet]

You should give him the zoom link.

[Kelly Ripa]

I know. I actually should. You're right. Season six is kicking off this week, so. I can't believe it's six seasons. I'm shocked by that. I feel like it's been three seasons.

[Albert Bianchini]

It's been good.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah, it's really good. What do you think Heather's gonna bring us today, Jan?

[Albert Bianchini]

She's, like, really good at, like, talking about the girls. Like, to be honest, like, she really dropped some tea about all of them. So I think it'll be fun to be a little dishy with her. The thing about this one that's so interesting is the whole aspect of the Mormons, because I, as much as I know about them and I actually learn about it, like, these women are drinking on camera. They're just. It's wild. Like, how is this allowed?

[Kelly Ripa]

It's wild to me. I don't really understand it. You know, I think I know a little bit about the Mormon Church. Not really. I know a couple of things because many years ago, Mark did this incredibly funny, brilliant TV show called Alpha House where he played a Republican senator. And one of the characters, Matt Malloy's charact, played a Mormon senator. And there was lots of Mormon. And Amy Sedaris played his wife. And they were the Mormon couple. And they were. It was brilliant the way it was portrayed. But some of the terminology. I would always ask the showrunners, like, is that true? Is that really a thing? And they were like, oh, yeah, no, this is all true. Like, every. You know, like the term soaking. We'll get into all of that with Heather. But, like, there's, like, a lot Sexual loopholes. There's loopholes all over that people find a way.

[Albert Bianchini]

Well, when I was talking to her, just to get this all set up, we were just like.

[Heather Gay]

I was just.

[Albert Bianchini]

Because I'm a fan, I just started asking some questions.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah, right.

[Albert Bianchini]

But she was saying how, like, the further she's been away from it, the more cult, like, she feels like it is. Which is interesting cause she was very involved in this church. But I'm sure we'll. We'll get into it with her.

[Kelly Ripa]

I feel like with any organized religion, and I say this as a practicing Catholic, and I'm very, very happy with my religion, but I feel like any organized religion can be. What's the word I'm looking for? If you have the mindset, you can turn. Any religion. Any religion can be turned in the wrong way if it's not practiced correctly, I think. In other news, there's so much going on in this house.

[Jan Chalet]

Oh, my God.

[Kelly Ripa]

Guys, if you listen to this here podcast, you have been following a lot of our journeys around here. And I've got a person who, if you're a regular listener of this podcast, you probably know. Not going to name names, because it's not my story to tell, it's her story to tell. But she is downstairs in our guest room right now as we speak, Recovering from her Dr. Rosenberg facelift. Well, I have booked her.

[Albert Bianchini]

She's going to come on and tell her story.

[Kelly Ripa]

She's going to come on and tell her story.

[Albert Bianchini]

She's going to tell her story.

[Kelly Ripa]

She. Look. How good does she look?

[Albert Bianchini]

She looks amazing.

[Kelly Ripa]

Amazing. Phenomenal. He's an artist. He's a true artist.

[Jan Chalet]

I thought I was walking in to have to do the fake. Oh, my God, you look amazing. But she literally looked amazing. And that's 24 hours later.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yesterday, she arrived here fresh out of the surgery suite, and I could not believe how amazing she looked.

[Jan Chalet]

That's crazy.

[Kelly Ripa]

It's also Mark and I get very excited. It's like having a new baby in the house. I don't know. Like, we woke up this. I woke up extra early this morning. And he's like, did you go down and check the baby? He's like, did you check on the baby? And I'm like, no, the baby Has a nurse. Like, I don't want to be in the way. You know what I mean? Like, the baby does have a nurse. We have a baby nurse in the house, too, with the baby. But, yeah, she looks great, and she's in such great spirits.

[Albert Bianchini]

She's so happy.

[Kelly Ripa]

She's so happy.

[Jan Chalet]

It's an outpost.

[Kelly Ripa]

It's an outpost. It's a surgical recovery center. My guest bedroom. It is a surgical recovery center.

[Jan Chalet]

I mean, I went in, I'm like, this is. It's beautiful.

[Kelly Ripa]

It's beautiful, right? Yeah, it's beautiful.

[Jan Chalet]

Perfectly fluffed pillows holding her in the right position, an array of medical supplies, a bell. I mean, the bell to ring for. And then a nearby nurse to come in.

[Kelly Ripa]

Nurse comes in.

[Jan Chalet]

I want that bell. I think even if it rings, nobody.

[Kelly Ripa]

I think Nurse Laurie was going to throw me and all of us out today because the amount of times she had to wrap and unwrap Patient X's face and head to show all of us, she was like, okay, you're really not supposed to be talking this much.

[Albert Bianchini]

But, like, no joke, 24 hours later, she could literally go out to dinner right now, and you wouldn't think so.

[Kelly Ripa]

She could, like, go out to dinner right now.

[Albert Bianchini]

It's wild.

[Kelly Ripa]

She wouldn't eat anything? No, she wouldn't eat anything.

[Heather Gay]

I think you just gave away who it is.

[Albert Bianchini]

Well, she's ready, so let's make it happen.

[Kelly Ripa]

Hi, Heather. You look amazing. You look incredible.

[Heather Gay]

Oh, my gosh. Thank you.

[Kelly Ripa]

Wait, so Jan tells me you're shooting. What else are you shooting?

[Heather Gay]

Yeah, we're doing a documentary with the. The same people that did the Leah Remini. Like Scientology and the aftermath. It's that team, and we're doing it. It's not Heather Gay in the Aftermath, but it's about kind of Mormonism.

[Kelly Ripa]

Oh, my God. You are so getting banished from the celestial kingdom. Are you afraid? Are you afraid of that? Being banished from the celestial kingdom?

[Heather Gay]

I used to be, but now I hope to be banished because I do not want to be there with the people.

[Kelly Ripa]

So I'm Catholic, and Catholics were afraid of burning in hell. So if you're banished from the celestial kingdom, is that the same as burning in hell?

[Heather Gay]

No. We Mormons give everybody three chances. You have celestial, terrestrial, telestial, and then outer darkness, which would be equivalent to burning in hell, but we just believe you're floating in eternal blackness with no progression and no hope or joy or no family. So pretty much burning in hell.

[Kelly Ripa]

Right? It sounds like. Sounds like Catholic light, doesn't it?

[Heather Gay]

Albert. Yeah, exactly. It's like Lacoonian gravity.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yes, exactly. Yes. Floating away from Sandra Bullock.

[Heather Gay]

From any woman his own age.

[Kelly Ripa]

Any woman his own age. Right, exactly. Very funny. So both of your books, Bad Mormon and Good Time Girl, exposes a lot that goes on at lds. Were there any parts of the books that you were afraid of revealing? Were you afraid of backlash? Are Mormons not allowed to. Are they not allowed to dole out backlash?

[Heather Gay]

Well, we're not allowed to dole out backlash. And, like, part of our covenants are to, like, believe and honor and respect church leaders. And in order to go to the temple, you have to answer questions saying that you don't speak ill of them, you don't criticize them, that you are totally allegiant to the church leadership. And so. So, yeah, I was terrified of all of it when I first got the book offer. Like, someone sought me out and said, we think you should write this book. We think it should be called Bad Mormon. Because there had been a big spoof on me being the bad Mormon. You know, like, some people did, like, a little Broadway musical version of it. Like, there's just some funny memes out there. So I. I remember seeing that email and seeing the title, and I, like, slammed the laptop down. Like, I said, there's no way what ever put my face with Bad Mormon in front of it. Like, I could never write an expose about the church. I could never reveal anything because I was just so entrenched and just still so loyal. But then just, you know, things happened. Fame, mostly. Fame and independent income.

[Kelly Ripa]

Independent income. Big one.

[Heather Gay]

I mean, to keep it. But my dad also passed away, and that kind of opened up a different. You know, just a different.

[Kelly Ripa]

You don't have the fear of disappointing your parents once they've passed away.

[Heather Gay]

Yeah. And I just knew he loved being Mormon. It was like his pride and joy, I think. Who knows? Because Mormons wouldn't say how they really felt about it, but I just felt like I wanted to say it. The biggest part that was hard for me to write was the temple ceremony, because we make vows in the temple that will never reveal any of it or will basically disembowel and cut our throats. So you're not allowed to ever retell what we wear or what we do. And I have friends that have been in the church their whole lives but haven't been to the temple. And their families all go to the temple weekly. Their, you know, their friends, their churchgoers, and they never. They still never knew what went on in there.

[Kelly Ripa]

No kidding.

[Heather Gay]

Yeah. It is so secret. It is the greatest biggest kept secret. And in the Mormon Church, like, until I went and physically saw everyone dressed like that and the things we did as a lifelong member, a return. I was in a return missionary. I was leaving on a mission. I had no idea. It is a shell shock for every member.

[Kelly Ripa]

Can you give me an idea of what people are wearing?

[Heather Gay]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Kelly Ripa]

It's.

[Heather Gay]

We wear head to toe white, but then we wear a stark Kelly green fig leaf apron over our loins and we veil our faces. The men wear these little paper caps that are tied to their shoulder with a string to remember that you're fettered to God. You are priesthood robes and nylons and slippers. And everyone's dressed head to toe in white except for when we put on our priesthood aprons. And then we do rituals. We do secret handshakes, we do tokens, we do secret rites of passage and we do oral ritual and prayer, like with hand motions in mass.

[Kelly Ripa]

Oh, that's the oral ritual. I conjured up a whole other thought in my head.

[Heather Gay]

Well, probably is less weird.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah. So what do you think about, like, there are always these comparisons because there's been so many television shows and there's been so many, like reality shows about Mormonism and there's always like this undercurrent that it could be in some people's eyes, cult like. Do you think it's cult like?

[Heather Gay]

Yeah, I absolutely do. And it was much more so in the leaving of the church that I can now say cult like or cultish. It's still like, chokes my throat to say the church is a cult, because that was the one. It's like worse than see you next Tuesday. To call it that. You know, it's the one C word that.

[Kelly Ripa]

And it's. But that's not all of it, Is it just like, is it parts of it? Is there, like, are there factions of the church or is it the church in its entirety?

[Heather Gay]

I mean, my. It's the church in its entirety. It's the normal soccer moms Americana that church is. We are zealots. If you want to call us a church, then we are religious zealots.

[Kelly Ripa]

That's what the word I was looking for. Zealots. Heather just came up with the word before you logged on. I was like, what's it called when people take a religion and they take it to an extreme? And because I was saying, like a lot of religions, whether you practice them or not, can be. If you are a zealot turned into something bad. And a lot of religions, if they're just followed by the letter of the church, whatever church it is, is quite good. But you would say, in general, LDS is more of what you're describing.

[Heather Gay]

I think that the church requires a level of devotion that is equivalent to the most zealot sex of religions that you can think of, like orthodox Hasidic Jews, you know, like fundamentalist Mormons. We wear all of our devotion on the inside. You know, we look so normal and mainstream, and what we do on the surface is normal and mainstream, but what we do in secret and sacredly and the inclusivity of the church and the secrecy of the church, you know, no one would realize how absolutely allegiant we are to the church leadership, to the reputation of the church, and to, you know, just allegiance to this institution. It's. And we frame it as to God, but it's much more segmented than that.

[Kelly Ripa]

When you bump into former church members, like people that you used to know, do they shun you? Do they come after you? Have you seen any of them?

[Heather Gay]

I mean, yes. And yes, I see. I live in Salt Lake City. I run two businesses. I mean, I run a business with two locations. So we have two opportunities for. My customers are Mormons. My best friends from high school are still devout Mormons. My family is all devout Mormons.

[Kelly Ripa]

So what do they say about you behind your back, do you think?

[Heather Gay]

Horrible, horrible, horrible things. If. If they discuss me at all.

[Kelly Ripa]

Right, okay, got it.

[Heather Gay]

To my face, they are kind and wonderful, and then. But I'm not invited over for Sunday dinner.

[Kelly Ripa]

Right. Okay, got it.

[Heather Gay]

But they won't read the book. They won't watch the show. They won't acknowledge anything that's any value that I've, like, garnered from being on TV or from writing the books. Whatever that has. Holds no currency where I live.

[Kelly Ripa]

Like, they've all watched the show and they've all read the book.

[Heather Gay]

Yeah, I bet they would not.

[Kelly Ripa]

No, I know they would not. It's. They've kept it inside with all of the other stuff.

[Heather Gay]

Like, I'm certain they're great at keeping secrets, you know?

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah, yeah, right. Here's the other thing that fascinates me, and this is like, when it comes to anytime I. Not just Salt Lake City, but any show where there are court cases involving Mormon people, any TV where there's a Mormon family. There seems to be. And correct me if I'm wrong, there's a lot of money there. Right. Am I mistaken?

[Heather Gay]

Well, I mean, I think there's there's the whole range within the church. You know, I think now they quote 17 million members. But my experience was the Mormons I knew were very successful, very attractive, very wealthy, very kind, you know, service oriented. But, yeah, beautiful people. Beautiful, successful, successful, wealthy people everywhere you look.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah, that's the thing. It's like, it's. That's the rich religion, Jan.

[Heather Gay]

The church is worth $260 billion. Like, they'd never. That's, it's, it's a huge, huge institution.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah. Wow. All right, so we want to get into the terms, Jan. Okay, Number one is. And I know this term from way before I had any Real Housewives of Salt Lake City in my life before your books came about. My husband was on a TV show long time ago. And two of the characters were Mormon and their young adult daughter and her boyfriend started soaking. Yes. Okay. Explain to our listeners what soaking is.

[Heather Gay]

Okay. Soaking would be if the penis were a sponge and the vagina were a bowl of water. You just place it in and no motion, no movement. It's insertion with no movement, no thrusting, just soaking.

[Kelly Ripa]

Okay.

[Albert Bianchini]

Isn't that when we were virgins and we would just say, oh, but it was just the tip. It doesn't count. Isn't that the same thing?

[Heather Gay]

It's just the tip, but a whole more inches.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah, it's just the tip, but with the entire penis jam.

[Heather Gay]

Okay.

[Kelly Ripa]

But then Roz.

[Albert Bianchini]

So we work with the producer Roz, who said she grew up with Mormons, and she said that people would jump on the bed to then make it move and. But you weren't doing anything bad because you weren't the one moving it.

[Heather Gay]

I do not have personal experience with the jump pumping, as it's called jump pumping.

[Kelly Ripa]

So does that require a third person in the church?

[Heather Gay]

It does. Or a quarter, you know, a coin operated bed.

[Kelly Ripa]

Okay.

[Heather Gay]

So I think that is a bit of an urban legend because I went to byu, I was surrounded by Mormons that would have. We were reporting on each other. Like, if my friend was sleeping with her boyfriend and I didn't tell on her, then I risked being thrown out of school too. So I don't think jump pumping is feasible within Mormon youth. I just don't think anyone would do it for someone else.

[Kelly Ripa]

But if you're. So if you're a girl and a boy and you're supposed to be chased until your wedding.

[Guest (Heather Gay)]

It.

[Kelly Ripa]

Does soaking not violate that in any way?

[Heather Gay]

I mean, I'm pretty sure soaking violates it in every way. But the big way that matters is if you can tell your husband that you're a virgin and we kind of go back to that archaic. Maybe your hymen's never been broken. I don't know. I mean, the mental gymnastics of purity culture are difficult to. Don't put it all on me. No, no, no, no.

[Kelly Ripa]

That I am not. That is, that I am. I agree with you 100%. Okay, Jan is now the soft swinging. Yeah. Jan is now holding up words to me. This episode of let's Talk Off Camera is brought to you by Alloy Health. Use promo code off camera for $20 off your first [e-mail]. here's the truth, everyone. Brain fog, sleep issues, changes in your hair and skin, even your sex drive, they're all connected to hormones.

[Albert Bianchini]

Was there like, was there one like, symptom that surprised you the most from this?

[Kelly Ripa]

I mean, there was many, but the changes in my skin, like the actual skin on my body frightened me.

[Albert Bianchini]

See, I'm so scared that I haven't tried started hormones yet that I've like missed a window.

[Kelly Ripa]

No, you have not missed a window. I'm telling you. You have not missed a window. I'm telling you. Alloy connects you with a menopause trained doctor to create a personalized treatment plan delivered right to your door. Jan, it is not too late. Join the 95% of women that feel better in just two weeks. Go to myalloid.com and use the code off camera today. Have you heard about Raised Right? They're a family owned human grade pet food company that works with world renowned veterinarians to make fresh home cooked style whole food recipes for dogs and cats. Raised Right's recipes are high in protein, low in carbs and made with simple ingredients. As many of their recipes have just 10 ingredients or less. Plus each batch gets lab safety tested and they openly post the test results on their website for everyone to see. I'm not exaggerating when I tell you that Lena, who is typically a picky eater, is obsessed with it. Gobbled the chicken recipe all up. Jan, did Cooper try it?

[Albert Bianchini]

He tried it and now he won't eat his other food. So you don't need to try food he won't eat. He's obsessed with it.

[Kelly Ripa]

Well, listen to this Jan. You can get 20% off your first box today at raised right pets.com/. Kelly, let me quickly spell this out for you. That's R A I S E D R I G H T P E T S. Starting the year with a wardrobe refresh, Quince has you covered with luxe essentials that feel effortless and look polished. They're perfect for layering, mixing, and building a wardrobe that lasts. Their versatile style makes it easy to reach for them day after day. From soft Mongolian cashmere sweaters, which I have that feel like designer pieces without the markup to 100% silk tops and skirts for easy dressing up to perfectly cut denim for everyday wear, their wardrobe essentials are crafted to last season after season season. I've also gotten some great deals on some items for the home from Quince. I just brought their European linen deluxe bedding bundle. It would have cost me hundreds of dollars more elsewhere and the quality is amazing. I'm so happy with that purchase. Refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Don't wait. Go to quince.comoffcamera for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com off camera to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comoffcamera. Okay, Jan, Jan is now the soft swing. Yeah, Jan is now holding up words to me. Soft swinging.

[Heather Gay]

Soft swinging is, I think it is a part of our culture. Absolutely. Mostly because you have kids that have no sexual experience, get married really young, you know, and they've only ever been with one person, and then they're older, they have some success, they have some, you know, freedom of thought and agency, and they want to see what's out there, but they don't want to leave their marriages, they don't want to leave their faith, they don't want to leave the church, and they definitely don't want to be an adulterer. So they, they dabble, they dip their toes in. And I think it's a way to maintain, you know, both worlds.

[Kelly Ripa]

And so when there's soft swinging involved, is it like everybody's involved? Like, is it an agreement between the husband and wife or is it usually just like a secretive thing?

[Heather Gay]

What I have learned from personal, not personal, but people is that it's an agreed upon thing. But I have heard of some tragedies where the husband has presented that he and the wife are interested. He starts an affair and she's like, I never signed up for any of this soft swinging crap.

[Kelly Ripa]

So who in the cast is still in the church? And do you have discussions about it or. It seems like it's very, like separate, very repressed.

[Heather Gay]

Like, yeah, I learned season one not to talk about levels of Mormonism. Although it's never Left. But Lisa still identifies and attends, and her son Jack just got home from a mission. Brittany still goes to church and, you know, identifies and believes Whitney has left the church that we saw on the show. She left the church and then had her name removed, which is like a. A voluntary way to sever all ties. Mary? No. Who else is there? Bronwyn grew up Mormon, but doesn't identify as Mormon anymore. I'm just speaking from what I colloquially think I know.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's talk Salt Lake City. How were you originally cast?

[Heather Gay]

Lisa Barlow knew about me, and I had a med spa business, and we really had a young kind of clientele, so she thought I would know a lot of people that might be candidates for housewives. I kind of thought I was, like, a facilitator, you know, Like, I didn't think I was going to ever really be in the running. And so it was kind of a surprise to me as we kept going through, you know, iterations of people, and then I still kept showing up on the list.

[Kelly Ripa]

And so besides Lisa, did you know any of the other women?

[Heather Gay]

Yes. Jen was a customer. I knew Whitney, obviously. She's my third cousin. I did not know Mary yet. I had met. I had met her briefly. I did not know Meredith, and then. So I knew Whitney, Jen, and Lisa.

[Kelly Ripa]

When you decide to do this show, what is the conversation like with your family, your friends, your ex? What's the conversation?

[Heather Gay]

Zero conversation.

[Kelly Ripa]

You just did it.

[Heather Gay]

I did not tell us. I could have told you how the conversation would go.

[Kelly Ripa]

Don't do it.

[Heather Gay]

Yeah, of the world, you know, nothing good could come of it. You'll risk excommunication, you know, good standing, everything you've worked for, your salvation, your hope. So I didn't tell a single soul until it was set in stone. And then I told my bishop, and he told me not to do it. And if I did insist on doing it, to make sure like that if I was at any public event that I carried around a glass of milk so that no one would think that I was drinking. Meanwhile, I was already drinking.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah, but what was in the milk? Was it Kahlua and milk?

[Heather Gay]

It's a White Russian.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah. White Russians look like milk on camera, do they not?

[Heather Gay]

They absolutely do. But I remember flying home from, like, my final interview in Burbank, and I write about this in the book, that the only question I thought about, the only thing that kept me from doing, I wanted with all my heart to do it. I dreamt of something, an opportunity like this, of reality, Television. I grew up on it. I mean, it was like, I'm going to get emotional like a dream come true, but I just thought, I can't do. Like, I'll get excommunicated. Am I willing to get excommunicated by going on TV and drinking and saying, I'm sleeping with people and I'm not living as a Mormon? And I. That was the decision. It was. The church was my final decision maker. And I just said. I really. I mean, I chose something bigger than the church for the. And it was only because it was bigger than the church that I was able to, I think, to let go and leave.

[Kelly Ripa]

But initially, when you were walking the line, were you, like, was there a moment in your head where you were contemplating leaving the church before? Was there any moment? No. No, never.

[Heather Gay]

I was gonna fake it till I make. I was gonna go till my dying day and drink secretly with my friends.

[Kelly Ripa]

Right. So did you think when you joined the cast, okay, I can do this? I can have both worlds. I can really experience this level of fame and notoriety and live my life in a way that is true to who I am, and I can also maintain my standing in the church? Did you think that you would somehow.

[Heather Gay]

Yeah, I thought through all of that, I thought, I'll wear clothes that look like I'm wearing my sacred garments.

[Kelly Ripa]

I'll.

[Heather Gay]

I won't drink on camera. I will tell in my confessionals. I'll walk the line. I did not ever think I could live authentically, but I thought I could possibly have the best of both worlds and be on television and have this opportunity as a housewife and still not betray the image or reputation of my church and my family, because I knew that I could pull. And the reason that I chose to leave the church is because I knew that I could pull the wool over the church's eyes and my church leaders. Like, I could fake it with them. But I had watched enough reality television to know that you cannot fake it with the viewing audience. And the last thing I wanted to do was go on TV as a representation of something I didn't even believe in. I mean, I would have done it if I thought I could have managed it, but I knew that the audience would have seen through it, and that was something I didn't want to deal with.

[Kelly Ripa]

Can you explain to Albert what sacred garments are and how on earth do you wear them underneath some of the getups that everyone wears on the show?

[Heather Gay]

Well, none of my castmates wear their sacred garments. And I'd like to point out that very rarely. All the other shows you see on Mormonism, the people are not wearing them, even though they're supposed to, supposed to be. So I'm just going to call them out right now.

[Kelly Ripa]

That is a breaking news jam.

[Heather Gay]

You can't call yourself a Mormon wife if you're not wearing your garments, right?

[Kelly Ripa]

How big are the garments? How like oppressive are the garments?

[Heather Gay]

The garments are polyester or cotton or mesh, but they're basically a T shirt with boob cups and then bike shorts. So it's to cover your shoulders and your clothing to your knees, so you can't wear anything above your kneecap and you really shouldn't show your shoulders. Now they just recently released a new version for hot climates that are, that allow you to wear a tank top. So now in Salt Lake City, there's this huge underground railroad of secret garments coming from like Barbados to the women of Salt Lake City. And people are trafficking garments. They're getting garments from the distribution centers in hot climates, bringing them to Salt Lake City and distributing them to active members here who are now on the streets of Salt Lake City wearing their garments in a tank top version. This is something I never thought I'd see in my lifetime. Garments that showed the shoulder. But the time is now. What a great time we're living in.

[Kelly Ripa]

I blame you. I think you've done a lot to like move the church forward into the modern times. And as you're describing the garments, I'm listening to it, I'm like, gosh, I, I wear Mormon undergarments all the time.

[Heather Gay]

Under everything you've ever wanted to wear elasticized bike shorts when you're already chubby and you're trying to wear skinny jeans. I mean, that was my reality. It, I felt like a segmented centipede. But I, I still wore them every day. And it's like wearing an outfit underneath your outfit. There's waistbands and they got so hard. Cumbersome. On my mission, I was a missionary in the south of France and I had to wear a dress every day. So I started buying the one pieces that don't even have a separate top and bottom. They're just a one piece unit with a butt flap when you need to use the bathroom.

[Kelly Ripa]

Oh my God. Where is my. You know what, Jan, you want one? I gotta get my hands on that. Yeah, I gotta get my hands on that.

[Heather Gay]

It's very difficult to get your hands on a gar garments and probably even more difficult to get your hands on one piece butt flap garments.

[Kelly Ripa]

Right? Especially like if you're not Mormon, Right?

[Heather Gay]

Yeah. You have to. You have to show a. A barcoded card at the distribution center that they. That links with church headquarters that shows that you're in good standing and able to purchase them.

[Kelly Ripa]

Oh my gosh. You don't definitely would do like good standing. No, I'd be in terrible standing. But do you think like my family priest would be able to broker a deal with like.

[Heather Gay]

It doesn't sound like it.

[Kelly Ripa]

The bishop.

[Heather Gay]

You think I would? I don't think so. Yeah. So there's a. You have to give 10% of your income. Kelly too. If you're willing to do that, we'll hook you up with some garments.

[Kelly Ripa]

I'm already giving 10% to the Catholic church. I mean I'm being bled dry. And forget bar mitzvah years with Judaism, I'm being bled dry by churches.

[Heather Gay]

It's true. It's true.

[Kelly Ripa]

Okay, so let's get into some of the girls. Tell me about. I'm just gonna ask. I'm gonna name a name and you give me like what your relationship is currently. Where you see it going, you know, if you see it going nowhere, say. You know, feel free to say pass, but I'm going to start with the. I'm going to start with the big guns. Jen Shaw.

[Heather Gay]

Pass.

[Albert Bianchini]

I have questions. We can't just do a full on pass.

[Kelly Ripa]

Have you seen.

[Heather Gay]

Kelly said I could not.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah, but you said I couldn't get my undergarment, so all deals are.

[Heather Gay]

Okay.

[Kelly Ripa]

Okay.

[Heather Gay]

Okay.

[Kelly Ripa]

So like, have you spoken to her since she went to prison?

[Heather Gay]

No.

[Kelly Ripa]

No.

[Albert Bianchini]

Has anyone?

[Heather Gay]

I heard Meredith had.

[Kelly Ripa]

Huh. And did you hear like what she heard? Did you hear?

[Heather Gay]

She. Meredith, you know, she kept it very. She just said it was a quick call.

[Kelly Ripa]

Uh huh. And are you worried because she's supposed to get out in 2026, right? October.

[Heather Gay]

Yeah, October 2026. I heard.

[Kelly Ripa]

And let me tell you, if it's one thing I know about time, it flies. So are you worried about bumping into her when she gets out? No.

[Heather Gay]

You know, she's. Unless she comes to beauty lab, I don't think I'll see her.

[Albert Bianchini]

The black guy. Can we just get into it for.

[Kelly Ripa]

A minute, Jan, Go ahead.

[Albert Bianchini]

Yeah, I just, I'm still. Did you protect her to that degree because you already knew she was in trouble? Like what was the purpose of protecting her to that degree?

[Heather Gay]

Well, I was protecting myself too because I didn't know how I got it. And just because she said, you know, I think I gave that to you. Like it was. I Didn't have proof of it or anything other. And if she had happened, you know what I mean? I woke up with it. I was afraid they had footage of something. I didn't know what they had. You have to consider, like, you wake up with cameras on you 24 7. And I had a black eye. It was terrifying. And I was protecting myself and protecting her because, I mean, I didn't have much to go on, honestly. It was very.

[Albert Bianchini]

Just that drunk.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah.

[Heather Gay]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kelly Ripa]

Jan, have you ever been that drunk where you've, like, browned out or blacked out?

[Albert Bianchini]

Yeah, but I feel like I would remember if someone punched me in the eye.

[Kelly Ripa]

Not necessarily.

[Heather Gay]

I feel like I would too.

[Albert Bianchini]

Yeah.

[Heather Gay]

So that's why I assumed it had to been, you know, a thousand other ways. But I think I would remember anything that gave me a black eye to that extreme. I thought it was some sort of infection of sorts. It was horrible.

[Kelly Ripa]

First time I had tequila jam, I fell a boardwalk and I did not realize I fell off the boardwalk. Okay, so what? So Monica. Yes. Let's go to Monica Garcia. Have you seen Monica since the reunion?

[Heather Gay]

No, I have not seen her since the reunion.

[Kelly Ripa]

Were you shocked that Whitney was still talking to her after she was exposed?

[Heather Gay]

Yeah, I was. I was shocked that anyone would keep talking to her just because it was such a. It was just felt like such a deceit and such a deception and it felt like it affected all of us equally.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah. I don't understand these moles coming into shows. It seems like an epidemic now. It seems like people are now watching the show, specifically implanting themselves into the show. I feel like people need to be hooked up to lie detector test before they can get on these shows now, because I think. I don't know. How do you feel about that?

[Heather Gay]

I mean, I feel like it was, you know, the snake eating its head to, like, bring someone on that had only come on as. You know what I mean? Like, there was no world that she would have been in our world and been our friend. And how are we supposed to process friendship with someone that was never our friend to begin with? Was literally got there on making fun of us, you know, it didn't make sense to me how I was supposed to move on from that.

[Kelly Ripa]

And she said that your hairstylist was involved. Do you believe your hairstylist was involved?

[Heather Gay]

Yeah, my hairstylist admitted to me that she was involved. And that's how the whole thing came out. Like she had a full mea culpa, full confession and apologized, revealed everything and it was like, so we esteemed her for being that forthcoming, you know, and like, that's. That was something that Monica, you know, still refused to do.

[Kelly Ripa]

Do you still let her do your hair?

[Heather Gay]

No, I have a. I have a totally new team.

[Kelly Ripa]

Good girl. Because that is. That's a bridge too far. Let's talk about Bronwyn.

[Heather Gay]

Okay.

[Kelly Ripa]

You guys had a rough start, to say the least. Do you see a path to friendship with her?

[Heather Gay]

Oh, absolutely. Bronwyn and I, I think, are in a great place now. And throughout the season, you know, we have. We have, you know, we fight about things that are remnants from the season before. But, you know, I really, I really. I don't know how to say this and keep my job, but I really love these women. I love fighting with them, but I love getting along more. And so when it's good, I want to keep it good. I am a people pleaser. I am a go along to get along girl. And so I feel bad that it started out so rough with Bronwyn, but, you know, I didn't get invited on the cast trip. You know, there were things that bugged me. There were things that I felt I had been hurt, but, like, I just, I've worked through them all, and now I'm ready just to be a good time girl and enjoy everybody.

[Kelly Ripa]

Where was the cast trip this year?

[Heather Gay]

It was. We had a cast trip to Greece in honor of our Angie K. Which is phenomenal. And we also went on a big trip to Kanawan, which is a little island in the British Virgin Islands. And it on below deck. We did a crossover collab with Captain Jason and his whole below deck crew. And it was a luxury yacht and it was amazing.

[Kelly Ripa]

Jan.

[Albert Bianchini]

Okay, I have a question, because in so many of these reality shows, like, the marriages don't survive. Like, do you really think that her marriage is. Is going to survive from this? Like, Todd doesn't seem like he's cut out for this.

[Heather Gay]

I just am a girl's girl. And I don't. I don't even can't believe I just said that. The truth is, like, if the marriage doesn't work out, run for the hills, Bronwyn.

[Guest (Heather Gay)]

Like, your.

[Heather Gay]

Your life is going and great and, you know, husbands that can't support women in this role. I think it's very telling. And I just think Bronwyn is strong in her own sense, whether she's married to Todd or not. And I think she'll be fine no matter what happens. I don't know. I don't have A I never thought I'd get divorced, so I would never predict for any of them.

[Kelly Ripa]

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[Geico Advertiser]

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[Kelly Ripa]

Expired in 2012. Dang it.

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Fortunately, by switching to Geico, you could save about 900 on car insurance without ever touching a coupon. It feels good to save big.

[Kelly Ripa]

It feels good to Geico. What about Mary Cosby? How is she? Doing.

[Heather Gay]

Mary is phenomenal. She's a new Mary Cosby. We saw a little bit of it last season. You see even more of it this season.

[Kelly Ripa]

How's her son? I was like, so concerned and upset for her, and I just, like, I feel like I went through a roller coaster of emotions with. With this woman.

[Heather Gay]

I did too, Kelly. And as a mom of teenagers, you know, it's just that precarious, precarious time. And I just felt for him and I felt for Mary and. And she says he's doing great, and I hope and pray he continues to.

[Albert Bianchini]

So her church is separate from the Mormon church like hers is. It's a total. What is that?

[Heather Gay]

Yeah, it's a totally different thing.

[Kelly Ripa]

So what, like, religion is that?

[Heather Gay]

She's Pentecostal and she's the minister and we get to see a little bit of Mary in her element again this year, this season we go and visit Mary's church.

[Kelly Ripa]

Church.

[Albert Bianchini]

What does that mean?

[Kelly Ripa]

Pentecostal?

[Albert Bianchini]

I don't know that that's a cost.

[Kelly Ripa]

Real, like.

[Heather Gay]

I mean, it is spirited, I would say spirited.

[Kelly Ripa]

I can heal you. Sometimes they speak tongues. Sometimes they use snakes.

[Heather Gay]

Like they believe in the gift of tongues, the gift of healing, the gift of prophecies.

[Albert Bianchini]

And do you find that to be cult, like, at all?

[Heather Gay]

I mean, I'm a sucker for religion of any sorts. And like, I think. I don't really feel like it's cultish. I feel like what makes a cult a cult is sometimes elaborate costumes and secret ritual. Not to point my finger at the Mormons, but I don't see that from any faction of the Pentecostal Church at all. It's pretty transparent. Mormons also believe in the gift of tongues. It's one of our articles of faith. And so we have this. It was just in the last, I think maybe 20 years or maybe 30 years that we went from speaking some weird form of Aramaic in the temple, like where we said made up, not made up words, but like speaking in tongues, rituals and chants. It was a little bit before my time, but it was of my parents generation. So, I mean, you're talking to a girl that even though it looks like we come from mainstream, we come from. Yeah, we believe the weird stuff.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah, no, I. Listen, I can't talk. I can't. I can't talk. You know, I mean, we. Albert and I talk about it all the time because all religion has something in it that is practically unbelievable unless you're a believer. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Heather Gay]

And that's what I would cling to in my youth, like, well, it's Virgin Mary's a crazy story. And we all believe that, you know, so why can't I believe golden plates and Joseph. Joseph Smith.

[Kelly Ripa]

We saw that Jared Osmond slid into Mary's DMs.

[Heather Gay]

Yes. Truth.

[Kelly Ripa]

What do you think about that?

[Heather Gay]

I mean, Kelly, you're going to be hard pressed to get me to say anything but pure adoration about anyone with the last name Osmond. I grew up.

[Kelly Ripa]

No, I understand. You're too young. But I religiously, pardon the pun, watched the Donny and Marie show. Like, that was my jam. I had. I didn't have. But my cousin had the Donny and Marie dolls when they were figure skaters. And it was amazing. And I talked about it on the show. And if you go into the basement, Albert, in the drawer in the bedroom, down there in the top drawer, an audience member of mine sent me the Donny and Marie dolls in their matching figure skater costumes. Yes, it is down there, because it's like, I will never take them out of the box. It means too much to me. And so I understand your reverence for any and all Osmonds, but I'm just curious.

[Heather Gay]

Feel it in my soul. And Donnie and Marie, when I was a missionary, we were in the mtc. We weren't allowed to have secular music or anything. I mean, we were studying. I was studying French for nine weeks, 12 hours a day. And Donnie and Marie on Christmas Eve came to the missionary training center in Provo and performed Christmas carols and danced. And like, that was like the biggest moment of my life until I met Andy Cohen.

[Kelly Ripa]

From Donny and Marie to Andy Cohen.

[Heather Gay]

So I'm just absolutely enamored. And I, of course, see all of the things about Jared and White, and they're all well deserved. You know, he knows what he's out there doing, but I still just. Just, you know, the legacy dies hard with me. But do you, like.

[Kelly Ripa]

Are you.

[Albert Bianchini]

How are you and Mary getting along? Because I feel like she seems to throw shade at you sometimes.

[Heather Gay]

I. I love Mary. I think we're. We. I'm not a threat to Mary. I enjoy Mary. I. She does throw shade, and I can take it. I don't know how to explain it. I just. I don't take it personally that as much anymore because, I don't know, I guess we have a friendship, you know, where it's. There's a little bit of grace.

[Kelly Ripa]

Well, Mary said that on Watch what Happened live, that you and Meredith kiss Lisa Barlow's ass. So let me Ask you, what do you think about Lisa Barlow?

[Heather Gay]

I think that self preservation is often misconstrued as kissing someone's ass. I believe it's smart, emotional intelligence to learn who you can push and who you can't. And, you know, I don't. I have some growing pains with Lisa this season, but I. I really, really have a camaraderie with her and I enjoy her and I like being around her sometimes and most of the time. But, like, we go through it, you.

[Kelly Ripa]

Know, what is something that we, like, the viewers don't. That you don't think the cameras capture about Lisa Barlow? Like, what are we missing? What don't we get about her?

[Heather Gay]

I mean, what people might not believe is that she's exactly the same off camera as she is on. Like, there is no. And if it is a Persona, it runs so deep that I've never seen anything otherwise. And I think that that might be surprising to people because you think, how can it be? But it is.

[Kelly Ripa]

You know, Jan's chin is on the desk.

[Heather Gay]

Yeah.

[Albert Bianchini]

I can't believe that's who she is.

[Heather Gay]

It's a hundred percent who she is. I was just at an event with her. We were at the Las Culturistas Cultures Awards, and we sat together the whole time. And she just, just. I mean, like, she just is consistently herself. You know, she just doesn't filter. She. If she doesn't know who a star is, she says, who is that? You know, she just doesn't like. She just kind of is always lb. Lisa Barlow, you can count on her to be consistent. And I like consistency. I just like, it makes me feel comfortable. Even if I'm mistreated, I just want to know what I'm going to get.

[Kelly Ripa]

I happen to agree with you there. Like, as long as somebody has a consistent personality, be it good, be it bad, be it happy, be it rotten. I feel the way you do that I would rather have somebody who is miserable in. In my presence, but consistently miserable than somebody that is all over the emotional spectrum all the time. That I don't like not knowing what I'm going to get.

[Heather Gay]

I agree. I agree. And that's why it gets harder for me to do these interviews about. Specifically about the other housewives. Because, you know, I.

[Kelly Ripa]

You're afraid I'm going to incite a war of some kind.

[Heather Gay]

And I. I have this, like, deep understanding and camaraderie with all of them, whether or not there's tension or. And I. And I know that that's not good for television, but that is how I feel like I. We've been together now you have to consider we have been together for six years. We just finished season six and our. My whole life was transformed with these women. And without them, I would not be living the life I'm living without them I would not. And they are all I have. I no longer can Kiki with my Mormon friends. They don't know 90% of my life and they don't want to know about it. And there are not a lot of women business owners that are, you know, have these same experiences that we have. We are all each other's got in Salt Lake City. And I think that makes a unique friend group and possibly a unique franchise in reality tv.

[Albert Bianchini]

My favorite moment was the flipping of the table. Right?

[Kelly Ripa]

Classic New Jersey has to Jersey Hasbro, Theresa Giudice.

[Albert Bianchini]

I feel like it was replaced by the hot mic moment. What do you think? What's your favorite Bravo moment? Yes, that was insane.

[Guest (Heather Gay)]

That was totally insane. And they have recovered from that and are now friends and sick as thieves both too. So just goes to show that the strength of female relationships.

[Kelly Ripa]

But that is crazy. I mean, isn't it interesting how sometimes you can see like, especially in the prism of reality tv, like something to us, the audience that may seem like a very small insignificant thing blows up and friendships are ended and blown up and, and there are, there's like many, many like, like fatwa. Like it's just like, it's crazy what.

[Guest (Heather Gay)]

Happens that law is. That was the perfect word because it launched season one when I sent Lisa a thumbs up response to her text. And that's why we were at war for two or two or two plus years over a thumbs up text.

[Kelly Ripa]

Exactly. Okay, so exactly my point. So it's like something small, but something epic and monstrous and big and enormous and earth shattering and then people move along and get right over it. It's always fascinating to me. So let's. I want to talk about your dating life because I gotta tell you, you have never looked better. You are absolutely stunning. So there's gotta be guys lining up.

[Guest (Heather Gay)]

There's no guys. No guys that I really. I thank you for saying that. First of all, it's like a little bit of a jump scare and nice to hear, but I have not dated at all really since my divorce. I've been divorced 10 years. But it's because I've been in the trenches of motherhood and I had 100% custody of my kids and I had three daughters and they were very young and I had to Raise them up to get them off to college. But I am now an empty nester. As of August 20th, I will be an empty nester. I shouldn't say date.

[Kelly Ripa]

You're gonna love it.

[Guest (Heather Gay)]

I'm soon to be an empty nester, and I am going to absolutely shift my focus to that maybe being the next chapter of my life, because I really thought that having a great love just wasn't going to be part of my story, you know, Like, I. I had pretty much an arranged marriage and it ended tragically. And I've never really had a great love, but I met this lady at a dinner party, and she was 75, and she said she'd been at the love of her life for 15 years. And I thought, there's a chance for me, like, there is still an opportunity, maybe that I'll meet someone. And I'm totally, for the first time in my life, I think, open to that. And I have to say, I think it's because I was so entrenched in what a mom does that I couldn't find any space to bring a guy into my home or like, to date. And to be under that scrutiny, I just. I had to just kind of compartmentalize, I think, to survive. But now that the girls are leaving, I'm really. I'm really going to change my focus, and I'm excited about it.

[Kelly Ripa]

I got to tell you. I admire that. I really do. I admire that you sacrificed. And I think, like, you know, especially you're raising little girls in your house. You don't necessarily want to invite some stranger into the house. It's. I think you prioritize your children and. And now they are succeeding. They're achieving all of. Of their goals, and you put the work in and. And on the flip side, you are a stone cold fox, and you're an empty nester stone cold fox. So you can literally. You're gonna have. Guys, we're gonna have to. Jan and I are gonna have to form a perimeter at the house. We're gonna have to form a perimeter. We're gonna have to, like, have torches, maybe a couple of shotguns.

[Albert Bianchini]

Soaking line is on the line.

[Kelly Ripa]

We're going to have a soaking line. We're going to have a soaking line and a soft swinging line.

[Guest (Heather Gay)]

Whoever wants to be soaked.

[Kelly Ripa]

Open for soaking.

[Jan Chalet]

Oh, my God.

[Kelly Ripa]

Heather, thank you so much. It's really a pleasure to talk to you. Appreciate you doing the podcast, Kelly.

[Guest (Heather Gay)]

When I heard about this opportunity, I jumped out of my chair. I am such an admirer of yours. I mean, I. Dan was saying that you guys have worked together for 25 years, and I was like, I watched you guys work together for 25 years. For 25 years. And you have been a fixture in my life and just such a. I don't know how to explain it. You're just who I became a woman with. So, like, I just really love this chance to be on your podcast. And I can't believe I'm talking to you is really what it is.

[Kelly Ripa]

We feel the same way about you. We've only known you six years, but they have been six of the best years of our lives. Make sure listeners to watch the premiere of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City September 16th. Don't forget to pick up Bad Mormon and good time girl Heather Gay. Everybody, thanks so much for joining us. Talk to you soon.

[Guest (Heather Gay)]

Thanks so much, guys.

[Kelly Ripa]

Bye. Talk soon. Well, that's it, everybody. Okay, let me try it one more time. Go for it. That's it. Can't wait to talk off camera with y' all next week. Bye.

[Heather Gay]

Bye.

[Kelly Ripa]

Let's talk off camera with Kelly Ripa is a production of Malojo Productions. From Malojo, our team is Kelly Ripa, Mark Consuelos, Albert Bianchini, Jan Chalet, Seth Bronquist, Roz Therian, Devin Schneider, Michael Halperin, Juliet Desch, and Team Radio Andy Lisa Mantine, Scott Marlowe, Jake Getz.

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[Kelly Ripa]

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[Heather Gay]

Dang it.

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[Kelly Ripa]

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