← Let's Talk Off Camera with Kelly Ripa
Let's Talk Off Camera with Kelly Ripa
Jeff Selingo: College: Who Gets In and Why
00:51:00
New York Times best-selling author of WHO GETS IN AND WHY and DREAM SCHOOL: FINDING THE COLLEGE THAT’S RIGHT FOR YOU, Jeff Selingo, joins Kelly to discuss the ins and outs of the college admissions process. He shares if there’s any one thing that gets you into a school, how to deal with deferments, and what the real deal is with schools and A.I. Plus he breaks down the distinction between acceptance rate vs yield rate, how to figure out if ACT or SAT is right for you, and explains why you should encourage your kid to start rowing.
Loading summary
Transcript179 lines
- [00:00]
A
The holidays are back at Starbucks. So share the season with a peppermint mocha, Starbucks signature espresso, velvety mocha and cool peppermint notes topped with whipped cream and dark chocolate curls together is the best place to be at Starbucks. What if you could have reliable and intelligent WI fi at the same price for five years? That's the Xfinity five year price guarantee. No annual contracts, no hidden fees, and our best equipment included. Just five years of WI fi that boosts speeds to the devices that need them most, that finds and fixes problems before you even notice them, and that keeps you gaming in the fast lane. Lock in your price and unlock the possibilities. Xfinity. Imagine that. Select plans. Only restrictions apply.
- [00:47]
B
Is there one thing when they're reading a college application the kids have spent months on, they're reading it in seven minutes. Is there something that makes it stand out that can get an application to the top of the pile?
- [00:59]
C
So the thing that really is going to stand out, especially at these highly selective schools, is the transcript. They're going to focus most of the time on the high school transcript. They want to know, like, what courses did you take? It doesn't mean you have to take every AP course available to you or every honors course or whatever they want. Kids who actually took like an interesting combination of courses.
- [01:19]
B
Somebody going to cue me or do I cue myself?
- [01:21]
C
Cue yourself.
- [01:21]
B
Okay. Oh, my gosh. We are back with another live episode of let's Talk off camera. So let's get talking. Don't mind telling you listeners this that I am so thrilled to be out of this process that we are discussing on this here podcast. Jan, you are in it. You are in it. And if you are a parent of a child applying to college, or if you are a child applying to college, or if you know someone applying to college, this is the episode of for you because I know the feeling. I know what Jan is feeling right now, even though it's in my rear view mirror. I know the anxiety, I know the stress. Tell me what's going on in your college journey, Jan. Well, we just applied to 15 schools.
- [02:16]
D
That's through the Common app. Some of them are early action, some of them are regular. We just got them all out at the same time. We did not ed a school, which we'll probably get into here, which means.
- [02:30]
B
Early decision, not erectile dysfunction.
- [02:34]
D
We chose not to do that. But it's interesting because I know we're talking about doing. We're talking about this for college seniors, but honestly, I have friends whose kids are freshmen in high school and they're concerned about this whole process and what their kids need to be extracurriculars they need to be into now that are going to make such a difference. It's just a big topic of content conversation.
- [02:58]
B
When we were doing college tours with Michael, particularly because Michael was the one that applied to the most schools. I think he applied to eight schools and we went to visit each campus, which was crazy. What I took away from that experiences was that there were freshmen and sophomore touring the colleges on all of those campuses because people get such a jump start. But for us, I felt like the process was anxiety inducing enough doing it as a junior in college, you know, like that was, that was enough. I, I couldn't imagine starting that process two years sooner. It's so, it's so like labor intensive on the kids. It's so much anxiety on the parents. You want to jump into their brains while they're writing their college essays. And then you're like, then, you know, then I'm. I product of public school in New Jersey. Shout outs. Public schools in New Jersey, they are great. I'm proofreading a college essay thinking, this is nuts that I have. Like, I, I am not qualified to do this at all. You know, So I, I feel for you.
- [04:14]
D
Yeah. If any college admissions officers are listening to this, do not hold anything I say against K. His name is Kaden Wiener.
- [04:22]
B
He's an example. Exceptional students don't hold anything I say. Come on, please. He's a great kid. He would like a full scholarship, please. This podcast, it's a saturated market. We are making $0 here. Albert, Albert, what about your college experience?
- [04:40]
E
Well, so I wanted to get out of the city badly. Like I grew up in Brooklyn, wanted to go. I applied to schools all over the country, California, Pittsburgh, everywhere you can think of and got into a lot of them. But then my dad worked at NYU and I went for free to nyu. So guess where Albert went was nyu.
- [05:01]
D
Yeah.
- [05:01]
E
And you know, it's interesting because it's a great school and people come from all over to go to it, but when you grow up in New York, NYU is like another building in the city that you walk by on the way to some.
- [05:13]
B
It's like going to work, right? Is it's like going to work to an office job. Yeah, that's the, the campus is a non campus.
- [05:19]
E
It's a non campus. But if that said, it's an incredible school. Two of my children, which we talked about, went.
- [05:25]
B
Yes. Two of his children, meaning Michael and Lola went to nyu, which was wild to us because we really steered our kids out of the city.
- [05:35]
E
Yeah.
- [05:35]
B
And Michael, I thought for sure would go to usc, because when you're looking at two film schools, USC and nyu, but I wanted to visit a kid with palm trees. So I was like, you go to usc? That's what I thought. And he was like, he just really felt a pull to nyu. He really wanted to go there. I was like, okay. And then Lola made fun of him for going to nyu. And then where did she wind up going? Nyu. They just felt like the programs and what they wanted to study were those were the best programs. And I have to say, it worked out very well for both of them. They learned a lot. They learned it well, and they are utilizing their degrees.
- [06:21]
E
My favorite story of all time is you dropping Michael off. You want to tell it.
- [06:25]
B
You know this story, right? It's the best. So we make a deal with Michael. If he's going to go to nyu down the street from where he grew up in Soho, okay? If you're going to go to this college, I need you to treat it like you are going to school in Istanbul, okay? That means you come home on Thanksgiving, you come home for winter break, you come home for spring break, and that is it, right? Just. Just school mandated holidays. That is when. And he says, I promise, I swear. And I said, and if you want to bring friends home for dinner once in a while, that is perfectly acceptable. No problem. Like, I've got no problem with that. And he says, okay, deal? Deal. Deal. We move him into his college dorm and we feel like such schmoes, moving him into his college dorm because we're like walking down the street to move him into his college dorm. People, like you said, are flying across the country. Two of his roommates, one was from Mexico, one was from Singapore. Okay? His two roommates were like, the kid from Singapore didn't even have parents show up. Like, he just moved himself in. And so there we are moving Michael into his college dorm. And Mark and I are so proud of ourselves. We go to Lafayette for brunch and we treat ourselves to a champagne brunch at Lafayette. And we're like, one down, two to go. We are amazing parents. We've got a kid in college, and this is amazing. And we take a taxi home because at that point we had moved to the Upper east side. Take a taxi home. We walk in the front door, and who was standing there? Michael Kinsboy. That didn't take. He lasted about two hours.
- [08:08]
E
And then what did he say?
- [08:09]
B
I said, did you forget something? And he goes, no, I just thought I'd spend the weekend with you guys. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
- [08:17]
F
Doesn't work.
- [08:19]
B
You got to get back to college.
- [08:20]
E
Just the best story.
- [08:21]
B
No, not time to spend the weekend with us. All right, so listen, if you're a parent of a high school senior, you are feeling everything we are talking about right now. The stress over the essays, the deadlines, the baffling low acceptance rates. It is worrying. It is troubling. And it's not just parents of seniors. Some parents start worrying about it, like Jan said, freshman year, and what. What extracurriculars do they need? What should they be doing to buff up their application? How do they stand out? It's bonkers. But I'm here to tell you that today's guest is going to help us. Yes, Jan, help us. And by us, I mean me. Today, we are lucky to have one of the world's leading experts. His name is Jeff Salingo. He's joining us. He's the author of the York Times best selling book, who Gets in and why? Which is about the year he spent embedded in the admissions process at three universities. Oh, would I like to be a fly on that wall. All right, now he's got a brilliant new book called Dream School Finding the College that's Right for you. Let's bring him into the conversation now. Jeff Salingo. Hi, Jeff.
- [09:30]
C
Hi, Kelly. Great to be here. Thanks for having me so much.
- [09:35]
B
Okay, so, Jan, you have a lot of these questions on your mind. Like, give us the 41 1. Are parents really spending too much money on this process? Do these kids need essay writers? Do they need to hire outside sort of college finders and SAT and ACT tutors and all of that? What can you tell us?
- [09:58]
C
So I think in many ways that we've kind of lost the purpose of high school. It seems like high school is now spent about getting into college. You know, you're talking about early decision earlier, you know, early decision applications were due November 1st. That means kids are really spending most of their junior year now on the college search, as you said, freshmen and sophomores spending time. And so we've kind of lost, I think, the purpose of high school. And what ends up happening is that often parents and students will be asking me, like, what else do we need to do? Do we need to take four more APs? Do we need to join another club? Do we need to, you know, we swim? Do we need to now play volleyball? Year round, do we have to save the world? And I always ask them, well, what do you want to do? And they say, well, but what do we need to do to get in? And you know, the year I spent inside college admissions, that application will show up. They'll open it up on a Wednesday in January or December, depending on when you apply. And within five, seven, nine minutes they're going to make a decision. And often at these very selective, highly elite colleges, it's probably going to be no. And so when that ends up back at home, that denial, if you say to yourself, what did I do all this for? And it was because of college, then you probably did it wrong. But if you say I did all that because I wanted to do it, then you're going to be okay with the outcome, even if it's not what you exactly wanted and you'll move on.
- [11:25]
B
What about like the. This was. I'm probably going to use outdated language because I'm going back. Like my kids are what, like, my youngest just graduated in May, so. But when, when my oldest was applying, they were constantly talking about the algorithm and how certain colleges have an acceptance rate of a certain percentage and if you do early action versus ed, you're better off at certain schools. Is that still a thing?
- [11:57]
C
It is. And so what ends up happening is that early decision becomes a game. So there's a kid, William, in my book, who ends up going to Columbia and like the day before he puts in his application early decision, he was trying to decide between Stanford, Northwestern and Columbia. And I said to him, well, where did you want to go? And he's like, I was just trying to figure out where I could get in, like early, you know, like these. I wanted to go to a top ranked school and I had to try to figure out where I could get in. So it becomes a game where if you're going to apply early, it should be a place you really want to go and. But it's turned into a game where people are always trying to figure out the numbers and who gets in and why and how they can get in.
- [12:39]
B
Do you find that parents are more. I found this from my process. A lot of times parents had their hopes and dreams so wrapped up into pushing their kids in the direction that they wanted them that they lost sight of what, what was really the best school for their child.
- [13:01]
C
No doubt about it, right? We, what other thing do we buy when we're like 18 and still wear the sweatshirt and still advertise it, right? So like so many people still talk about their college years. And I get it. College was life changing for many people. You might have met your partner, you might have met your best friend. You figured out what you wanted to do. It was a lot of fun. And so that emotional attachment to college is often transferred then to our own kids. And colleges know this. And boy, do they pull out those heartstrings to get you to make decisions that you might not otherwise make, including spending now at some places, close to $100,000 a year. A year for a college degree.
- [13:45]
B
I keep telling, I stress this, I stress this to all of my friends that are going through the process now. I always think that people have the idea flipped around in their head. They're hoping that a college accepts them. And maybe this is the naivete in me, but I'm like, you are the one shopping for a college. It should not be the other way around. You are assessing the college. Don't let it just become the college. Like accepting you, you are accepting them. Is that a good way to frame it?
- [14:22]
C
It's a great way to frame it. I heard so often in interviewing students for this book that love the college, that loves you back. You know, so often, you know, there was a student who, who was accepted to Cornell and smu and, you know, Cornell sent her a T shirt. SMU called her up. They invited her to campus for a special day. Same thing with the student who got accepted to Ole Miss where the admissions dean called her up because they really wanted her to come to this special program. And they talked to her for a half hour about Oxford. Meanwhile, she got into Rice and they didn't really care because you want to know why they have 10, 12 other students who will gladly take that one seat that they have if, if you don't show up.
- [15:02]
B
Jan?
- [15:03]
D
Yes. So I have a question, because my son wanted to Ed to a school, and this is one of these schools that are $100,000 or very close to it. And we're not allowing him to Ed because we were told very clearly at the ed level, you're probably not going to get the money that could be for grants or for scholarships. But his chances of getting into that school just in terms of, have diminished greatly. And so I, first of all, I find that to be severely, like, unfair. But it's just, it just is what it is. And that's, you know, how I'm explaining to him. But I just. The whole thing is, is that my son is also at a school where they all want the same 10 schools.
- [15:45]
C
Yeah, it always happens. We you know, they use these software programs called Naviance or score, where they have these, like, scatter plots where you can, like, look at somebody with my stats the year before, where did they get into this college? And so they're constantly trying to figure out, can I get in? But the thing about those scatter plots is they only show the colleges where those students have applied. You know, students from that high school have applied before. So it shows you essentially the same 20, 25, 30 schools over and over again. And then at the end of the year, you know, a lot of these schools do these Instagram or seniors do these Instagram pages about where they're going, and all you do is see the same colleges over and over again. So if you're a. If you're a senior now, the following year, where are you going to apply? Are you really going to apply to some place that no one from your high school hasn't has gone to in the last five or 10 years? No. You're going to follow the herd. And, you know, colleges don't have, you know, they, they don't have, you know, you know, a cutoff for the number of students that they'll take from high school. But they're. If 30 kids from a high school apply, they're not going to take all 30 kids.
- [16:51]
D
Right.
- [16:52]
C
They don't have a school.
- [16:53]
D
Advice for parents like who they all, all these kids want the same schools. What's your advice for them?
- [16:57]
C
Well, so, you know, that is the advice in Dream School is to look more broadly. You know, it doesn't mean don't apply to them because you never know. But, you know, the idea behind Dream School is that there's not a single place for all of us. Most of the kids who end up where they end up, often, by the way, not their first choice. They might end up at their second or third choice. And I talk to them a year or two later and they're loving it. They end up finding their people and they have fun and they find a great major and they find faculty who actually care about them. So there's this idea going back to your son, Jan, is that there's this idea that there's only one school for me, and if I don't get in, my life is ruined. And I think the idea behind this book is to show that there's all these great schools out there that are beyond, in some cases, the top 20 time, top 50, where students excel. They go on, by the way, to Harvard Law School. They go on to get great. They go on to have great careers, they go on to great graduate schools. So it's not, you know, the exclusivity of these top schools doesn't mean that those are the only places producing the best graduates.
- [18:06]
B
What about the use of like outside admissions advisors versus the ex mission advisor that comes with the high school.
- [18:15]
C
High school, yeah. So I get ask this question a lot. And unless you're hiring Rick Singer who is like back in the game again. He got out of jail and he's back in the game again, believe it or not.
- [18:25]
B
True.
- [18:26]
C
Yes, he is.
- [18:27]
B
He college advisor.
- [18:28]
C
He's back to college advising, believe it or not.
- [18:30]
B
That is wild to me.
- [18:32]
C
Hey, it's America, you have second chances, right? So yeah. So unless you use him and now I think, you know, his side doors now probably are closed off. But you know, I often tell people, if you don't have time, this is a long process to manage. It's a lot of deadlines to, to hit. And if you don't have time to do that, then go out and hire, you know, an extra advisor, an independent consultant, independent education consultant or if there's disagreement in the family. So this often I often find this in families where the parents, you know, you were talking about this earlier, where the parents might want one thing and the kid wants something else. And in some ways these independent consultants could be therapists. They could help you navigate that. They could be that third party arbiter to help you navigate these changes between you and your kids.
- [19:23]
B
What about SAT and ACT scores? Should kids submit them? If it's a test optional school.
- [19:31]
D
The.
- [19:31]
C
Number one question I get, and what's happened is all these colleges went test optional during the pandemic. Some went back, many did not. And so what ends up happening is that students look at last year's scores of students who were enrolled and every year the scores keep going up because the only people submitting them are people with high scores. And so you think, well, I have to have a high score and optional at some schools. I will tell you, looking at the stats, it doesn't mean optional, especially in certain majors. So if you're going to be, you know, science, technology, engineering, math, if you're going to be in business, they're going to want the scores because they really want to see those math scores. Now they won't really tell you that. And I think that parents like twist themselves in pretzels and they really into pretzels and they always are trying to figure out like should I submit it or should I not? And I always Tell parents, like, just make a decision and move on, you know. Stu Schmil, who's the dean of admissions at mit, told me the story. He lives up in suburban Boston and he said parents would come to him as neighbors would come to him and say, hey, Stu, you know, hey, you've been in admissions for a long time. Should I submit my scores to another school, not to mit? And he would look at them and he would like, I have no idea. Like, he's been in admissions for all these years and he has no idea.
- [20:48]
B
Well, listen, we're gonna take a commercial break. We're gonna get to the phone lines. We are taking all of your questions that you have for Jeff. We'll be right back. This episode of let's Talk Off Camera is brought to you by Alloy Health. Use promo code off camera for $20 off your first order@myalloy.com. here's the truth, everyone. Brain fog, sleep issues, changes in your hair and skin, even your sex drive, they're all connected to hormones.
- [21:24]
D
Was there like, was there one, like, symptom that surprised you the most from this?
- [21:28]
B
I mean, there was many, but the changes in my skin, like the actual skin on my body frightened me.
- [21:36]
D
See, I'm so scared that I haven't started hormones yet that I've like missed a window.
- [21:40]
B
No, you have not missed a window. I'm telling you, you have not missed a window. I'm telling you. Alloy connects you with a menopause trained doctor to create a personalized treatment plan delivered right to your door. Jan, it is not too late. Join the 95% of women that feel better in just two weeks. Go to myalloid.com and use the code off camera today. Listen. The shorter days, increased travel, heavy holiday meals. There's a lot that can throw off your rhythm. AG1 helps you stay one scoop ahead this holiday season with daily immune support from antioxidants, probiotics and functional mushrooms. AG1 Next Gen is a daily health drink clinically shown to support gut health and fill in common nutrition gaps. I started drinking AG1 a couple of weeks ago and I notice a huge difference in my focus and energy levels, especially past my typical 3pm slump. I also love that instead of taking upwards of 20 vitamins and supplements a day, this has completely streamlined my routine with one scoop and it tastes great. I mix one scoop in the morning with 8 to 12 ounces of cold water, which get this, adds up to 75 vitamins, minerals, probiotics and whole food sourced ingredients. These probiotics are key Because I've already noticed a huge difference in my digestion. Head to drinkag1.comoffcamera to get a free welcome kit with an AG1 flavor sampler and a bottle of vitamin D3 plus K2 when you first subscribe. That's drinkag1.comoffcamera.
- [23:12]
A
It's the season to come together over your holiday favorites at Starbucks. Warm up with a creamy caramel brulee latte, get festive with an iced gingerbread chai, or share velvety peppermint mocha. Together is the best place to be at Starbucks.
- [23:32]
B
Okay, we're back with journalist, advisor and author of the best selling book who Gets in and why? And the new book Dream School. Jeff Salingo is here. He's ready to tackle your questions. So we've, I mean, Jeff, I think we've crashed the phone lines. Let's go to Jessica from New York City. Jessica, you're on with Jeff Salingo.
- [23:51]
F
Hi, Jeff. Hi, team. This is so great. Thank you. It's been a great discussion. I'm curious about what the landscape looks like for students interested in transferring. Like, for example, are there signs, circumstances that parents should look for that would prompt a parent to encourage a transfer or stick it out at their school or. And do students have more opportunity, like the higher acceptance rates as a transfer?
- [24:17]
C
Great question. So I think first, let them stick it out through at least the first semester. I saw early September parents, like two days in, their kids were calling them saying they want to transfer, like classes hadn't even started yet. So give them a chance to really figure out the first semester of college. So maybe talk about it over winter break, maybe talk about it in the spring, but don't make that decision now in November. And second, you're not, it's not going to be easier to get into these most selective colleges as a, as a transfer. Their transfer rates are pretty small because not many students leave where it may be easier. And by the way, where they might actually give you money are these other colleges that really need to fill their seats. So a little bit lower in the rankings, deeper in the rankings. So that's where you might want to look.
- [25:02]
F
Got it. Thank you, Jessica.
- [25:04]
B
Thanks for your call. We appreciate it.
- [25:07]
F
Of course.
- [25:08]
B
Okay, let's go to Shelley from Virginia. Hey, Shelly, you're on with Jeff.
- [25:14]
F
Hey, Jeff. Hey, Kelly. Thank you for taking my call. I kind of wanted to piggyback on Kelly's question about ACT and sat. Jeff, really, what's the difference between the two? And why do some schools take SATs or just take ACTs?
- [25:33]
C
Well, most schools now take both. There's very few that only take one. They want to give you that choice. You know, when I was growing up on the east coast, you know, the. The. The SAT was like a coastal thing, and the ACT was a Midwest thing. That's now not the. There's really no difference between them. You know, some kids do better on the SAT or act. My advice is, if you're early enough in the process, take both. Take a practice test on both and see which one you like better.
- [25:59]
F
Oh, great answer. Thank you so much.
- [26:02]
D
I have a question before we get.
- [26:03]
B
To the next question.
- [26:03]
D
Yes.
- [26:04]
B
Thanks, Shelley. Thanks for your call, Jeff.
- [26:05]
D
You know, one of the schools my son's applying to, he. They told him to make a video of himself A Day in the Life. What's that? That's new to me. That didn't happen when I was applying to schools.
- [26:15]
C
Yeah, I mean, the video is like a new thing, and I actually have a feeling that it may end up replacing the essay because they. It's more authentic, and they feel like it also can't be gamed as much. You know, I think everyone's worried about AI and the essay. Even before AI. AI, the essay was the thing where, you know, we spent way more time and money and effort on it than admissions offices actually read. Spent reading it. I. I saw essays essentially speed reading. They would do it in, like, a minute or two. So I think they're looking for something that's more authentic and. And natural for students. You know, they're always online, they're always on video, they're always on social. Just more natural for them.
- [26:54]
B
So you miss the joys of having kids in art school because Michael had to make a student film, Lola had to write an album, and Joa had to audition. So it's like when you have kids in art schools, that is something I am fully. That makes sense to me. It was the essay that scared the shit out of me. All right, let's go to Danielle in New York City. Danielle, you're on with Jeff.
- [27:19]
F
Hi, Kelly. Hi, Jeff. Thanks for taking my call. My question is, if. If my child gets deferred from the school they really want to attend, what can they do to improve their chances of being accepted later on?
- [27:35]
C
It's a great question. And to be honest with you, I would look at how many students they deferred the previous year, which is a question you could ask. You could also find in the data some of these colleges are deferring, like USC a couple of years ago deferred 90% of their early action applicants. And so at some point, it's like there's almost no chance of getting in as a deferred student. And I wish they would just, like, let these students go, like, cut them loose and just say, you know, move on. Move on to a different school. And so if you really want to improve your chances, you know, send them as much as you can. Try to communicate with the admissions office saying how much you really want to go there, but you're not going to be the only one doing that. And so my advice is to look at other institute, you know, other colleges and universities that you might want to do and just kind of cross your fingers and hope for the best.
- [28:20]
F
Thanks so much, Jeff. That's super helpful.
- [28:23]
B
Danielle, thanks for your call. Albert, didn't. Didn't Cyril have an experience with NYU where he didn't get into film school right away? And he sort of relentlessly. We have a friend who's from Paris, relentlessly pursued NYU and basically called them. And I mean, he called them. He was relentless about it.
- [28:43]
C
Like, every day, not every day.
- [28:47]
B
He kept checking in and saying, this is the only school I want to attend. I live in Paris, and this is my dream, and I'm a filmmaker, and you have to. To accept me. And he stayed on it and eventually he got in.
- [28:57]
E
Yeah. And he's.
- [28:58]
C
I mean, if schools. Yeah, yeah. And if schools know that you really want to come there, that does help. But unfortunately, I think what's happening is that a lot of students just do that to. To try to get in. And so you're. You're not going to be the only one doing that.
- [29:11]
B
Right. Okay, let's go to Michelle from Pittsburgh. Michelle, you're on with Jeff.
- [29:17]
F
Oh, hi, Kelly and Jeff. Thank you so much. This is. I can't tell you how important this is. Like, every parent needs this. That has kids in high school, truthfully, I guess my. So my son, he. He has been accepted to. He had some direct admissions, but he. We just literally found out this week his number one school. He did get into his university, but that was just for the university. And now he's going for a music degree. So our next level of stress is now we have to do the music portfolio. And there's really limited information out there. I mean, he's talked to his music teachers, things like that. But is it best to do a website to keep it, like, concise? It's like a whole other level of stress now. I'm like, I can't believe we're going through this again.
- [30:06]
C
Yeah. Are there people Kelly might be able to help out with this? I mean, are there people at his school, his high school, who have applied there previously, or do you know anybody at the college who's gotten in? I would ask other undergraduates who just went through this process that they're often the best. Like these near peers. People who just went through this process are often the best source of information on that.
- [30:28]
F
Okay. And is it, like, super competitive? Like, how detailed do you. Do you know how, like, detailed they look at those, like, portfolios as compared to, like, the actual application for the school?
- [30:38]
C
They're going to look pretty detailed at it. I mean, music in many places is as competitive as engineering or computer science. They just only have so many seats. And also, remember, I don't know if it's an instrument or something else. They may only have certain spots for certain people. Right. So if you think about, you know, if they only need an oboist or, you know, a cello or something like that, there's only going to be so many spots for there. So it could be just as competitive to get in. I think the question you want to ask is, if he doesn't get in this year, but he's into the wider university, is there any chance of transferring into that major as a sophomore, junior? Because if there isn't, then I think the question you have to really ask is, is it worth going to that university?
- [31:18]
B
Yeah. And from my own. My own. My own experience, Michelle, I would say that usually the, you know, in the application process to the music school, they. They're pretty clear as to what it is they expect from the student applying, whether it's a performative piece or whether it's a live recording or what have you. I don't know the school, and I don't know your child's instrument or focus, so it's, like, hard for me to sort of gauge.
- [31:47]
F
No, that makes sense. That's what they said, like the live audition and his portfolio, so, yeah. Oh, that helps out. No, perfect.
- [31:55]
B
Well, good luck to you, Michelle. We'll be thinking about it.
- [31:57]
F
Thank you so much. This has been really great. Thank you.
- [32:00]
B
You're welcome. Okay, Susan from Toronto, you're on with Jeff.
- [32:05]
F
Oh, hi.
- [32:06]
B
Hi, Kelly.
- [32:07]
F
Hi, Jeff. My question is, how is AI affecting the jobs our kids are getting straight out of college? And what courses do you think they should be taking to stay competitive?
- [32:17]
C
That's a great question. I'm actually working on a piece about that right now, and I think colleges have Been kind of flat footed on AI. They've spent the last two years basically trying to protect students from AI and saying it's cheating and things like that, which is really unfortunate because it's being used in the, in the workforce. Unclear what's going to really happen to the job market. I wish I could answer that question. I probably would be, be doing something totally different if I could. But where I think you should focus on colleges is are those places where professors have like redesigned courses to incorporate AI. So Ohio State, for example, has done this where they have AI now an AI requirement across the curriculum. So no matter what your major is, no matter where you're looking, ask about how are professors like rethinking their courses, how are they using AI in the classroom room, how are they using AI tools? You know, I have an affiliation at Arizona State. They have a, they have a deal with ChatGPT and OpenAI. Right. You, you want to look for places that are being really innovative about this, that give students exposure to it. Because a lot of places are really trying to protect them from it in a weird way that I don't think is going to be really helpful in the long term.
- [33:27]
B
Just on a, on a separate note, listening to you mention Arizona State and the Ohio State as University of Michigan wrestler parent, it's very sorry. Jim, you have a question?
- [33:41]
D
Yeah. About AI in terms of like this admissions process. Can you talk to me about how like that's playing in? Because I noticed that certain schools, it was like forbidden and then other schools were like, we're okay if you use it, but we really want this to be from you. And so it's a little confusing and I'm just wondering. And then also I saw something online about how the Common app, if they know you used AI, can delete your admission. Is that true?
- [34:06]
C
So that's not true. The Common app actually went out and had to correct that when they saw that online. They do have an honor code essentially that says you're going to fill out the application honestly. But it's really up to the college or university if they think you used AI. And some colleges are going to use AI detection on essays, but, but they don't have a lot of time. That's the problem. I mean, one of the things I noted when I was in these admissions offices for my last book is they're reviewing these applications in 5, 6, 7 minutes. So people would always ask me, oh, do they look at, you know, do they Google things to see if you're telling the truth? Do they look at your social media. They don't do that because they don't have enough time to do that. So I. Even with AI detection, it's becoming really difficult because they have to move so quickly when they're getting 20, 30, 40,000 applicants and they don't have, you know, they have three months essentially to review a lot of these applicants. They just don't have time to do it.
- [34:59]
B
Jeff, is there one thing, if I can ask, is there one thing? When they're reading a college application the kids have spent months on, they're reading it in seven minutes. Is there something that makes it stand out that can get an application to the top of the pile?
- [35:14]
C
So the thing that really is going to stand out, especially at these highly selective schools, is the transcript. They're going to focus most of the time on the high school transcript. They want to know, like, what courses did you take? It doesn't mean you have to take every AP course available to you or every honors course or whatever. They want kids who actually took like an interesting combination of courses and they want students who unfortunately got high grades in most of these courses. And if the grades are low, they would prefer them to be, you know, freshman and sophomore year. And they don't want students where their grades are all over the place. If it's a steady track up, that's great. But they're going to spend at most of these places, at mostly selected places. If you have a good transcript, that's going to get you more than 50% of the way there. And in fact, there were often times that when I sat in these admissions offices, they would open up the transcript and within a couple of minutes they knew the kid wasn't a competitive candidate and that was it. They basically breezed through the rest of it and they moved on.
- [36:09]
D
What about the extracurriculars though? Do they care?
- [36:12]
C
They do care. So I saw when I was at Emory, a student who ranked third in her class of 1000 students. So there were a thousand kids in her senior class. This was out of Texas, she ranked third. She never got a grade below an A since her freshman year of high school. And she had a 1590 out of 1600 on the SAT. And she was denied within seven minutes because she just did a couple of activities but really didn't dedicate herself to anything. The essay was kind of bland. So it also shows you, by the way, if all you focus on academics and you're not, you know, you're not doing other things, you're not a well rounded kid. And well rounded, by the way. I think that's a great phrase, Kelly, because people think, well, to be well rounded, I have to participate in 20 activities. It doesn't necessarily mean that in some cases, they do want kids who participate in multiple activities, especially if they're not leading it. But if you're captain of a team or you're president of a club or president of the student government or you're, you know, you know, an Eagle Scout or something, that really takes a lot of time. They know that, and they're not going to expect you to do nine or ten other activities.
- [37:24]
B
Great. That's good information. Let's go to cece in Delaware. Cece, you're on with Jeff.
- [37:29]
F
Hi. Hi, Kelly. I just want to let you know you're such an inspiration. Jeff, I do have a question. So I have a college student in an art school. Their freshman year was Art foundation, and now they're in their sophomore year. They claim their major, and they realize, oh, I might be in the wrong school for this major. So now we're going through the whole process again of applying to other colleges. Is there anything that we should know when it's a specific major that you're transferring for?
- [38:07]
C
No. I mean, I think you want to show. I mean, some arts. If this is. If you're only going to an art school, an art specific school, that major is. Is in decline at some places, and you want to make sure that you're going to a place where they have the resources to invest in you. So you want to know, you know, what's enrollment been like at. If it's. Again, if it's just an art school or even an art major or art school within a bigger university, you definitely want to look at enrollment. And by the way, what. What has happened at this school that you don't want to happen at the next school? So you want to ask specific questions to make sure that you're not just transferring to another school and the same thing will happen again.
- [38:44]
F
I see. Okay. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
- [38:49]
B
I'm dying to talk to cece after this. Like, I want to, because I just might just. Can we keep cece on the line, guys? Cece, do you have time to sit on the line for a second?
- [39:01]
F
Yes.
- [39:02]
B
So I can talk to you during commercial break?
- [39:04]
F
Sure.
- [39:05]
B
Okay. All right, we're going to take that commercial break now. Don't forget callers. I don't know how many more callers we can take, but the Phone number is 844-305-2263. 9 for all of your questions for Jeff Salingo regarding getting your kid into college. We'll be right back.
- [39:27]
E
Foreign.
- [39:31]
B
85 is calling and you're gonna want to pick up. 40 years ago, Italian skincare brand Borghesi introduced Fango, the original five minute mud mask. Fango means mud in Italian. And in just five minutes, this mask nourishes and purifies your skin for a healthy glow. Before facials and filters, there was Fango, over 20 million soldiers. This iconic mask has been trusted for decades because it delivers results fast, smooth, glowing skin in minutes. And Fango isn't just for your face. It works on your body, too. And for someone like me with a busy schedule, it gives me maximum results with minimal effort. And the ritual of applying a thick, creamy layer, warming up the shower, and then rinsing it off for glowing skin feels absolutely luxurious. Visit BorgHese.com and celebrate 40 years of Fango with 20% off using promo code off camera. That's Borghese. B O R G h e s.
- [40:29]
A
E.Com It's Black Friday at Perigold, the destination for luxury home save up to 30% on the largest ever selection of design's best brands. Shop the sale in store and online@perrigold.com, only from November 25th through December 2nd.
- [40:45]
B
Macy's has a new parade this year, a parade of deals. Every day from now through November 27th, Macy's is featuring a new must have deal that will last only one day. We're talking about daily deals on things you'll love, like a super cozy Ugg fluff throw, an upgraded Dyson vacuum, and some of your favorite fragrances, hair products and jewelry too. Oh, and don't forget, Black Friday deals start November 10th. Your daily thrill starts now. Shop now@macy's.com or in store. Okay, we're back with Jeff Salingo. So many calls, so many questions. Albert, you have.
- [41:28]
E
Well, I mean, during the commercial break, Jan was going right in for. Well, what connections do you got? You know, anyone at this school, you know, at that school. But my big question is, can that backfire on people?
- [41:41]
C
It can backfire depending on the school. I mean, there are some colleges and universities, Brown, that loves. Loves connections, right? Like they love the connections. And so, you know, there are places, trust me, that if you have the right parent, you'll get it or the right connection. Or in other cases, if you could write that, you know, 13 figure check, right? Very easy.
- [42:10]
B
Well, there's. That's where that college finder comes in what's his name? The guy that went.
- [42:14]
C
Oh, yeah, Rick Singer that went to jail.
- [42:19]
B
Yeah. Our daughter was very funny after that scandal broke, right after she got into school. And she goes, you mean to tell me there was a guy that you could have hired that could have just gotten me in? And I was like, yeah, and I'd be in jail now. What?
- [42:32]
C
Right. They just had a superimposer in a fencing uniform.
- [42:37]
B
There was recently an article in the New York Times about Tulane punishing a school. Can you explain that?
- [42:43]
C
Unbelievable. So basically, with early decision, you're supposed to. It's a binding decision, so you apply early. Usually November 1st, you find out it's in December, and if you get in, you're going no matter what. The only way you could get out of it is if they don't give you the financial aid you need. But that's very clear. And what happened in this case is that at a couple of high schools, the high school that was in the New York Times is the Colorado Academy out of Denver, the student ended up switching and broke the binding contract or the bonding agreement. It's not a real contract with Tulane. And so Tulane said to Colorado Academy and a couple of these other high schools, by the way, no one from your high school can apply. Early decision this year. We're not allowing it. And it was really terrible because, you know, like, that's a family from the previous year. They're the ones who broke the rule. And you're now pumping, right? You're punishing an entire school. And it's funny, I just got a text from a friend in New York who has a friend at the Colorado Academy who was thinking of this and, and, and. And just like, like, it's just. It's really sad for those students who want to, you know, apply early and they can't now.
- [43:51]
B
Right. Wow.
- [43:52]
D
Yeah.
- [43:53]
C
And I have a feeling that now that this has come out, there will be more two lanes next year. Yeah, there will be more two lanes.
- [44:01]
B
More people doing that. Should we get to Michelle? Yeah, let me get to. There's another caller from New York City. Michelle, you're on with Jeff. Hello.
- [44:12]
F
How are you?
- [44:14]
B
Hi.
- [44:14]
F
Am I on?
- [44:15]
B
Oh, yeah, you're on. You're on.
- [44:17]
F
Oh, hi. Yes, I had a question. As it relates to internships, I was wondering how important do you think it is in the application process? And if so, is it, like, should it be more towards an intended major or just something that more shows leadership or initiative?
- [44:34]
C
So it is, unfortunately, in my opinion, important at these very highly Ranked schools that have competitive admissions, particularly. Particularly in certain programs. So for example, my last book, I was at Emory, they had a kid they were trying to figure out around neuroscience. And I'll never forget this line from one of the admissions officers. Well, there's no evidence of neuroscience in their application. Like, they're 18 years old. Who's going to have evidence of neuroscience in their application? So if you really want to get into some of these programs, having that evidence is unfortunately. And again, my opinion. Opinion is, is will help. It doesn't mean if you don't have it, you're not getting in, but it definitely makes you different. It definitely helps you stick out.
- [45:21]
F
Right. So. But do you think then in turn, like a leadership role would be more important, showing more that you took initiative in a leadership role if you couldn't. Exactly.
- [45:31]
C
If you couldn't. Yeah. I mean, again, I don't think it's like one. I think the important thing about admissions is, like, everybody thinks there's like, like one thing that gets you in. Like, only if I could do, like take one more AP class or do one more activity. There's not like one thing in particular that gets you in. So if, if your kid wants to do. Will make them happy and, and it. It might make them stand out, especially in their high school, then I would suggest doing it.
- [45:59]
F
Yeah. Like student council or like student gov. Things like that. Or starting a club.
- [46:05]
C
Yeah. I mean, they're always looking for students who do some of the unusual things. Right. They loved. There was a student, another student at Davidson when I was in their admissions office who was like a STEM major, but he started the. And he was a football player, but he started the pottery club. And they were just like amazed by that. Right. Like stem, pottery, football. Great combination.
- [46:27]
B
Well rounded.
- [46:28]
D
What about pole vaulting?
- [46:29]
B
Yeah, pole vaulting. Unique enough, Jeff?
- [46:32]
C
Yeah, that is, well, rowing, you know, if you want to. To. If you want to do a sport, rowing. That get you in.
- [46:39]
B
What about pole vaulting? He's an amazing pole vault.
- [46:42]
C
Is he amazing?
- [46:43]
B
Yes, he is. He's an amazing pole vaulter. All right, thanks, Michelle, for your call. Before we go to Kim and Indiana, I just want to ask about acceptance rates versus yield rates and what do parents need to know about that?
- [46:56]
C
So we often focus on acceptance rates. You know, they only accept 10% of kids. They only accept. Only accept 20% of kids. Well, what's happened over the last 20 years is that the number of applications going to colleges has quadrupled. Even though, by the way, the number of Students graduating from high school has largely remained the same. So students are just applying to more, you know, each student's applying to more colleges. Well, you could apply to 10 colleges, you might even get into 10 colleges, but you could only go to one and that one is the, you know, they're yielding you. And what's happened, it's fascinating. So over the last. So let's just take four schools here, Syracuse, Brandeis, George Washington University and Duke. Twenty years ago, they all had the same yield rate. Essentially, you know, 40% of students who were accepted ended up enrolling. Over the last 20 years, Duke has gone up to 60% because they play all these games with wait lists and early decision to make sure you're not really admitted until they kind of know you're going to come. And then Syracuse, Brandeis, George Washington, they've dropped below 20% yield. And what that means for us, the applicant, is that every year they have to accept more students. Well, when they accept more students, it looks like, well, what happened to Syracuse? They're now accepting 60% of students. They only used to accept 40%. They must not be very good. Well, it has nothing to do with the quality of the school. It just means in this world where there's these hyper selective colleges that sweep up all the applicants weekends and everyone else is left with what's left, they have to accept more students has nothing to do with the quality of the school.
- [48:27]
D
Weren't some of these schools like throwing money at people after the fact?
- [48:30]
C
Syracuse was one of them. Yeah, so last spring I wrote a piece for New York magazine on it after May 1. So May 1 is when most students say that where they're going. Syracuse was short of students and they were worried about international students not being able to come and so they went out and they offered 10, 20 in some cases. I found people who are offered $30,000 to switch schools, they had already enrolled somewhere else and they said if you come to Syracuse. And some people took them up on their offer, you know, so one family I met got into usc, but they had to pay full price, which is like $90,000 a year. And they got like 30 or $40,000 a year from Syracuse and so they switched. I mean, the weather is better in, you know, I went to school in upstate New York. The weather, trust me, better in la.
- [49:16]
B
Tunnels and all that stuff.
- [49:18]
C
Yeah, better in la.
- [49:19]
B
Alright, let's take a call from Kim in Indiana. Kim, you're on with Jeff.
- [49:24]
F
Hey guys, thank you for taking my call and thank you for this discussion today. Selfishly, I'm in this season of life that it's very interesting to me. I just have a little bit of a different situation. So I have a senior that graduated early this year and what he has done due to that is started taking some core classes at a local community college that we know will transfer to a four year college when he goes on in the fall. So what we have learned that we weren't expecting is that he's now considered a transfer student because of that. And I'm just curious what that process looks like versus just your typical senior going right into, you know, fall college.
- [50:11]
C
So it's essentially the same process, but there are often fewer spots at some colleges for transfer students, especially more selective colleges. I actually think it's a smart deal what you did, but what many of these community colleges have, like direct admits to local universities, but if he doesn't want to go there, then you are going to have to go through the transfer process. But you also might want to look at, do they have deals with other colleges and universities where you would get directly admitted and you won't have to go through the admissions process? It's a question you should ask.
- [50:45]
F
Yeah, they have a situation with this community college. If he wanted to go for two years and he met, you know, certain parameters, he gets automatically admitted to iu, which is where he wants to go. So that's a great program. I just don't know that I'm going to convince him to not go to the university with all of his buddies, you know, in the fall. So.
- [51:07]
C
Okay, so he doesn't want to wait around, in other words?
- [51:10]
F
I don't know that he does, but. But I do want to ask, would we be doing this kind of transfer request now or does that come at a different time of the year?
- [51:24]
C
It really depends on the college. Every college has a slightly different transfer, so. But look at the colleges that he wants to transfer to or apply to and see what their transfer deadlines are. Some of their deadlines are different than their freshman deadlines.
- [51:37]
F
Gotcha. Okay. Thank you so much.
- [51:40]
C
No problem.
- [51:40]
B
Appreciate it. Let's talk dollars and cents, Jeff. I'm really curious, like, what degrees? Because there are so many kids that are graduating college and unable to find jobs, they are entering a workforce that seems to have collapsed around them. What degrees are paying the most right now to make it a big bang for their buck? What? And should we encourage our children to pursue degrees maybe in a field that they wouldn't ordinarily be receptive to, but you want some return on the investment.
- [52:15]
C
So let me answer the second part of that first. I wouldn't do that because they really have to have some passion or interest in a degree. And also the market could change drastically. So four or five years ago everybody was telling their kid, go into computer science. And now I see, you know, computer science degree holders, you know, driving Ubers and working at Starbucks and things like that. So, you know, the job market could change drastically. So no, I wouldn't necessarily try to follow the job market as it stands today. So what's hot today? You know, so, you know, healthcare. Anything in healthcare. Health professions are really hot right now. Engineering remains incredibly hot, which is why it's so hard to get into. But I also want to make a play for the arts and you know, humanities degrees and liberal arts. You know, if you look at the overall, you know, every parent thinks, well, if my kid is going to major in, you know, we've been talking about music. My father was a music teacher, right? Like music is great and so are the arts and so are the humanities, history and English and things like that. And the world I think is going to need, need more of those students in a world where AI will do a lot of the basic work. And the other thing is, if you look at earnings over the course of a lifetime, it is true that if you're an engineer or in business, you're going to make more money right out of college. But those who have liberal arts degrees actually end up catching up, especially at the very top over time. Because you know what, they're the ones who get promoted it. They're the ones who become the CEO or vice presidents or other types of leaders because they have these skills to figure things out. They write well, they communicate well, they problem solve. Right, those. So you may not have the job right out of college, but you could eventually get it. And again, looking at the data over time, you're going to turn out okay.
- [54:07]
B
Jam.
- [54:08]
D
Yeah, so we got some questions DMed and we're going to do this really quickly. But what age? This is from Taylor, from Kansas City, Kansas.
- [54:15]
B
But.
- [54:15]
D
But what age do you recommend kids start seriously thinking about which college they want to attend?
- [54:20]
C
I would start early in high school and I would not look at specific colleges. I would look around your hometown and do you want to be in an urban area, a rural area, big, small. Just look at types of colleges at first to get a sense of what you want.
- [54:33]
E
Next one is Grace in Philadelphia. I graduated college about 10 years ago. How has the admissions process changed in.
- [54:40]
C
The past decades, just more competitive. So students used to apply to maybe five or six colleges 10 years ago. Now they're applying to 10 plus. And by the way, we talked about this earlier. Test optional. More colleges. Test optional.
- [54:53]
B
Jeff, I can't thank you enough. This has been such an incredible discussion. I feel like we need to do like three more of these with Jeff because we really only scratched the surface. I want to encourage all of our listeners. Don't forget to pick up the books who Gets in and why and the new book Dream School, both by Jeff Salingo. You have been an absolute pleasure and to all of our listeners, I hope all of your kids get into their dream schools and I hope they get full scholarships. Wouldn't that be amazing?
- [55:24]
C
Full.
- [55:24]
B
Wouldn't that be amazing? Thanks so much, Jeff. We really appreciate it.
- [55:28]
C
Thanks. Thanks for having me.
- [55:29]
B
And we will talk with you all off camera next week, everybody. Bye Bye. Let's talk off camera with Kelly Ripa is a production of Malojo Productions. From Malojo, our team is Kelly Ripa, Marc Consuelos, Albert Bianchini, Jan Chile, Seth Bronquist, Roz Therian, Devin Schneider, Michael Halperin, Julia Desch and Team Radio Andy Lisa Mantineo, Scott Marlo, Jake Getz if you're.
- [56:00]
A
An adult struggling with obesity, if you've struggled for years and years, you are not alone. But Zepbound Tirzepatide is changing what's possible when it comes to weight loss. Along with diet and exercise proven to help lose weight and keep it off, Zepbound is a prescription medicine for adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight related medical problems. Zepbound should be used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity. Zepbound injection Injection is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5 or 15 milligrams per 0.5 milliliters in single dose pen or single dose vial. Don't use with other Tirzepatide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound can be used in children. Don't take Zepbound if allergic to it or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes, depression or suicidal thoughts before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing pregnant, plan to be or taking birth control pills. Taking zeppan with a sulfonylnylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Discover the weight loss you could be bound for. Ask your healthcare provider about Zepbound or call 1-800-545-5979. Explore Savings Options regardless of insurance status atsave on zepbound.com Terms and conditions apply.
- [57:31]
B
L.L. bean Flannel has been part of the holidays for over a century. Cozy, reliable and made to last. It's the shirt you wear when you pick out your tree and when you're home relaxing with a warm cup of tea. And it's the one you wear in the family photo, where somehow everyone's matching without even trying. For me, nothing captures that classic holiday feel like a flannel. It's such an easy way to look instantly festive. Go check out L.L. bean Flannel. Invited to the holidays since 1912.