Mark Manson: The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: "Let's Talk Off Camera with Kelly Ripa"

Guest: Mark Manson—The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck

Release Date: December 10, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this lively and unfiltered episode, Kelly Ripa sits down with bestselling author and “anti-guru” Mark Manson to discuss his groundbreaking work in self-help, including The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fck* and Everything Is Fcked: A Book About Hope*. The conversation ranges from the impact of caring too much about others’ opinions to practical wisdom on navigating relationships, social media, self-sabotage, and toxic family dynamics. Listeners get candid, actionable advice, all while the signature humor and warmth of Kelly and her co-hosts, Jan Chalet and Albert Bianchini, keep things highly relatable.

---

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Philosophy Behind "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck"

[12:57]

• Core message: Life is always going to be hard, regardless of success. The trick is "choosing good problems to give a fuck about and ignore or deprioritize the rest" (Mark Manson, [12:57]).
• Modern relevance: This message resonates today more than ever due to constant information overload from technology and social media.
• Notable Quote:

  “Really the whole game of life is choosing good problems to give a fuck about and ignore the rest or deprioritize the rest.” – Mark Manson [12:57]

2. Human Nature: Why We Focus on the Negative

[13:30]

• Negativity bias: Humans are psychologically primed to fear threats and bad news, a survival mechanism that’s outdated in today's complex society but makes us susceptible to anxiety and distraction.
• Modern challenges: Social media and constant connection amplify this tendency; "so much noise dominates our lives."

3. The Backwards Law—Finding Contentment by Accepting the Negative

[15:13]

• Explanation: The pursuit of a positive experience is itself a negative experience; acceptance of a negative experience is itself positive, a concept originating from Alan Watts ([15:39]).
• Happiness vs. Contentment: The pursuit of “happiness” as a concept can cause distress; focusing on contentment is more useful.
• Quote:

  “The pursuit of a positive experience is itself a negative experience. And the acceptance of a negative experience is itself a positive experience.” – Mark Manson [15:39]

4. Top Things People Care About That Sabotage Them

[17:01]

• Materialism: Beyond basic needs, buying more won’t make us happy.
• Caring About Others’ Opinions: The most common issue. "It's impossible to stop caring what people think... There is a name for someone who doesn't—psychopath." ([17:57])
• Solution: Find something “you’re willing to be disliked for.”

  “If you can’t answer that easily, then that itself is the problem.” – Mark Manson [18:25]

• Evolutionary roots: Fear of rejection ties back to ancient survival.

5. What Should We Actually “Give a F*ck” About?

[22:38]

• Basic answers: Health, family, friendships. Not sexy, but research backs their importance.
• No secret sauce: “It’s not something that sells $10,000 seminars. Like, that is what the research says.” – Mark Manson [23:05]

6. Relationship Wisdom: Love vs. Trust and Respect

[23:54]

• Key insight: People overestimate love, underestimate trust and respect in relationships.
• Long-term happiness: Mutual respect and trust are non-negotiables; love alone won’t save a dysfunctional relationship.

7. The Nice Man vs. The Good Man

[30:26]

• Notable distinction: A nice partner tells you what you want to hear; a good partner is willing to deliver uncomfortable truths out of love and for your growth.
• Quote:

  “A really good partner…is going to tell you the uncomfortable things you need to be told at times.” – Mark Manson [30:39]

8. Quitting vs. Letting Go; Self-Sabotage

[32:17]

• When to quit: Quitting can be wise—if your efforts yield diminishing returns, it may be time to “let go” instead of “grinding it out.”
• Self-sabotage: If fear increases as you near a goal (instead of decreasing), that’s a sign of sabotage.
• Quote:

  “If the fact that you were like 90% on the way… and now you're freaking out… that's the sabotage talking.” – Mark Manson [33:45]

9. Toxic Family Dynamics & Resentment

[42:01]

• Advice: Set strong boundaries—not just with family, but yourself. Limit exposure to recurring painful dynamics.
• Resentment metaphor:

  “Having resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.” – Kelly Ripa (quoting Liza Persky) [45:47]

• Goal: Find the threshold where you feel in control and avoid crossing into resentment.

10. Social Media, Life Comparisons, and the "Attention Diet"

[55:34], [56:02]

• The problem: Even knowing better, people compare themselves to others’ highlight reels on Instagram, which causes anxiety or feelings of inadequacy.
• Mark’s solution: Curate your own digital consumption ("attention diet"), actively unfollow what drags you down, and consider regular digital detoxes.
• Quote:

  “We have to set limits around ourselves…curate our own feeds and our own app usage.” – Mark Manson [57:00]

11. Dealing with Hypocrisy, Especially in Public Figures

[59:42]

• Why hypocrisy bothers us: It’s more about broken trust or disappointment in people we once held to a higher standard.
• Mark’s advice: Be grateful when someone’s true character comes out—it saves you time and emotional energy in the future.

12. Writing with ADHD—Mark's Creative Process

[38:55], [39:04]

• Mind tricks: Mark uses scheduling, removing distractions, and self-reward ("dog treats for the brain") to work in focused blocks.
• Rituals: Plays certain music albums to get into flow; rewards focus with guilt-free breaks.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You should care what your friends and family think. It’s healthy… The problem is, is that you don’t care about anything more than what other people think.” —Mark Manson [18:10]
• “People overestimate love and underestimate trust and respect.” —Mark Manson [24:02]
• “The interesting thing about self-sabotage: If the closer you get to your goal makes you more anxious or scared, you’re probably sabotaging yourself.” —Mark Manson [33:45]
• “Curate your own algorithm around what you know is good for you.” —Mark Manson [57:00]
• “Having resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.” —Kelly Ripa (quoting Liza Persky) [45:47]
• “Nobody cares.” —Mark Manson (On social media sign-offs) [58:24]
• “I kind of think of my brain as like a dog sometimes… you have to trick it into doing what you want it to do.” —Mark Manson [39:04]

---

Key Timestamps

| Time | Segment | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 12:57 | Mark’s “Subtle Art” core philosophy explained | | 15:13 | “Backwards law” & happiness/contentment | | 17:01 | Biggest time-wasters/care saboteurs (materialism, opinions) | | 18:25 | What’s healthy to care about vs. not | | 23:54 | Trust and respect in relationships | | 30:26 | Nice man vs. good man | | 32:17 | Signs of self-sabotage, quitting vs. letting go | | 42:01 | Resentment in family relationships—boundaries and management | | 55:34 | Social media anxiety and “attention diet” | | 57:59 | Digital detoxes: practical advice | | 59:42 | Dealing with hypocrisy on social media | | 38:55 | ADHD and Mark’s writing process |

---

Listeners' Questions and Call-In Advice

• Quitting vs. Letting Go: Quit when effort no longer yields meaningful progress, not just because it’s hard ([32:17]).
• Family Resentment: Set clear boundaries, manage exposure, and don’t try to “fix” others—focus on protecting your peace ([42:01]).
• Coping with Social Media: Actively curate your digital environment; take real breaks to reset perspective ([56:02], [57:59]).

---

Tone & Style

The episode is casual, self-deprecating, and supportive, with a mix of serious insights and comedic banter. Kelly nurtures a safe and entertaining space for honest, sometimes vulnerable conversation, keeping both Mark and listeners at ease while diving into life’s toughest questions.

---

Conclusion

This episode delivers both laughs and practical, science-backed advice for anyone wrestling with modern anxieties: how to focus your energy, worry less about others’ opinions, navigate tricky relationships, and maintain your sanity in the age of endless information. Mark Manson’s blunt wisdom and Kelly Ripa's quick wit make for authentic, actionable listening.

Highly recommended moments: Mark’s “Backwards Law” explanation ([15:13]), call-in segment about quitting and self-sabotage ([33:45]), and the extended discussion on social media and self-worth ([55:34–63:11]).

Transcript

[Kelly Ripa]

Marshall's buyers are hustling hard to get amazing new gifts into stores right up.

[Jan Chalet]

To the last minute. Like a designer perfume for that friend.

[Kelly Ripa]

Who never RSVP'd wishlist topping toys for her kids who came too. Belgian chocolates for the neighbor. A cozy scarf for your boss. And a wool jacket for your husband.

[Jan Chalet]

That you definitely did not.

[Kelly Ripa]

Almost forget. Marshalls, we get the deals. You gift the good stuff even at the last minute who find a Marshall's near you. You know you've hit that stage in life when a new fridge or dishwasher actually excites you. And honestly, same here. I didn't think I'd geek out over appliances until I saw what a Bosch can do. Their fridge with Vitafresh drawers keep food so fresh. And the Bosch dishwashers with crystal dry, they get your dishes dry, even plastics, so your dishes can go from dishwasher to cabinet. Upgrade your kitchen with Bosch appliances.

[Mark Manson]

I would say kind of the number one thing that I hear from people is caring too much what people think. It's impossible to stop caring what people think. Actually, there is a name for somebody who does not care at all what other people think. You know what that word is? The sexist. The psychopath.

[Kelly Ripa]

Somebody gotta cue me or do I cue myself?

[Mark Manson]

Cue yourself.

[Kelly Ripa]

Okay.

Oh. Welcome back to another live episode of let's talk off camera, guys. Not gonna lie. Pretty excited about today's episode. It's a good one. I feel like it's good. It's important. We're doing a service to the community.

[Albert Bianchini]

Yes.

[Kelly Ripa]

You feel like we're doing a service to the community. Our guest today, guys, is the anti guru who blew up the entire self help industry with his blunt and no bullshit approach. He started as a blogger and quickly became the voice of a generation with his mega bestseller, the Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck.

[Jan Chalet]

Say it.

[Kelly Ripa]

I'm gonna say it. The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck, which has sold over 20 million copies worldwide. By the way, I would like to just state for the record that I am responsible for 500 of those copies.

[Albert Bianchini]

You are.

[Kelly Ripa]

So he actually owes me this podcast chat. He really does. His work includes his latest book. This is could be my favorite title ever. Everything is fucked. Colon. A book about hope.

[Albert Bianchini]

You do love a colon in a title.

[Kelly Ripa]

I love a colon in a title. It makes me excited. I don't know.

[Albert Bianchini]

It gets you excited.

[Kelly Ripa]

It gets me excited the way, like, you know, like, pornography would get a porno person excited. His podcast solved. Solved. Jan, why don't we call this Podcast solved. Because we solved so many.

[Jan Chalet]

Are we solving stuff here?

[Kelly Ripa]

Well, I mean, we create problems. We create problems. It cuts through the noise. With scientific evidence and brutal, unapologetic honesty. We're going to get ready to talk. Values, pain. Why your problems might actually be a good thing. I've said this before. Failure is great. Problems can be. They can really like, unlock you, unparallel you. If you're stuck in a toxic relationship, if you don't know what values to live by, if you're completely overwhelmed by the chaos in the world, now is your time. Ask Mark your toughest questions. You're gonna get some real non bullshitty answers. Right, Jan?

[Jan Chalet]

Yes, that's the plan.

[Kelly Ripa]

Before we talk to Mark, let's talk about everyone's Thanksgiving. Everyone, how was your Thanksgiving?

[Albert Bianchini]

You had a great Thanksgiving?

[Kelly Ripa]

I had the best Thanksgiving of my life.

[Mark Manson]

Tell us.

[Kelly Ripa]

Well, I left the country and I fled to England to see my daughter. We had Thanksgiving at a restaurant, which was the best, smartest, greatest thing we ever done, which was weird for me. I still found myself clearing plates and Lola kept saying, you can sit down because the waiters will take the plates. But I'm so clearer. I'm like an old horse. So I couldn't really get myself out of that.

[Albert Bianchini]

I'm throwing you off.

[Kelly Ripa]

Dinner was done, so I started clearing plates and they were like, ma', am, we've got it. You know, that was my British accent. It's terrible.

[Jan Chalet]

Did they serve any sort of Thanksgiving?

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah, they served a proper Thanksgiving.

[Jan Chalet]

Really.

[Kelly Ripa]

The only thing that was like, threw me off was like sausages on, on the plate with, with the turkey and the ham and they had everything. It was everything proper.

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

Thanks.

[Albert Bianchini]

Sausages?

[Kelly Ripa]

I don't know. As you know, I don't eat sausage, so I don't know. It's the kind that I moved off of my plate onto Mark's plate.

[Albert Bianchini]

What do they call stuffing? Do they call it dressing?

[Kelly Ripa]

Dressing. I believe it's called dressing.

[Jan Chalet]

Did you have a lot of people there with you?

[Kelly Ripa]

We had.

17 people.

[Mark Manson]

Wow.

[Kelly Ripa]

Wow. Yeah. 17 people. Yeah. We closed the restaurant down. They were thrilled to see us go. I think they believed it would never end for them.

[Albert Bianchini]

That's exciting.

[Jan Chalet]

Do you do any of that, like go around the table, what everybody's thankful for?

[Kelly Ripa]

I didn't bother because a lot of people, it was their first Thanksgiving. They had never had Thanksgiving before. And I told them how this was not a typical Thanksgiving because nobody was screaming at each other. There were no hard feelings or blame. Nobody cried at the Table. So it was a very atypical Thanksgiving. But we did play the white elephant game, which was really fun because they really got into it. They were petty thieves, so everybody was stealing. It was great.

[Jan Chalet]

What were some of the items that.

[Kelly Ripa]

Were big ticket items were these glasses that were like. They're like 4D or 3. I don't know what they're called, but you can watch a movie in your glasses, and it looks like a giant cinema, and you hear them in the, like.

[Albert Bianchini]

Yeah.

[Kelly Ripa]

Ear portion. That's the glass. But nobody else can hear it. But it's like. It's like a real. Like a 4D experience.

[Albert Bianchini]

That's awesome.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah, it was very, very cool. So everybody stole that from everybody. Right. I gave a Napoleon candle. Everybody fought over that. There were lots of fighting over. There was a David Bowie, or David Bowie, as they call him.

[Mark Manson]

Bowie.

[Kelly Ripa]

And there was a lot of fighting over that. And then just garbage that nobody wanted. The typical garbage that nobody wanted. But it was great. How about you guys? I know where you were.

[Jan Chalet]

I was in Michigan. We went to go see our son in college. And we went to see the pitiful Ohio State.

[Kelly Ripa]

Michigan.

[Jan Chalet]

And I don't know if I'm the bad luck because they've won every year up until now, but I don't need to go to another one.

[Kelly Ripa]

Joaquin was very funny. He said it's because he graduated and he thought he was the bad one. Okay, good. Because he wasn't there.

[Jan Chalet]

It was so cold. I mean, it was. It was snowing sideways.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah. It's brutal.

[Jan Chalet]

It was ridiculous. We ended up going out to dinner. There weren't many options. A lot of things were closed. We ended up eating at a sushi restaurant. Thanksgiving dinner.

[Kelly Ripa]

Amazing.

[Jan Chalet]

Which was great because, like, nobody. My family really loves that meal. Like, loves the turkey, loves any of that stuff.

[Kelly Ripa]

There's nothing to love. I ate potatoes.

[Jan Chalet]

Yeah. But it was. It was actually great. We do that little tradition of going around the room and saying, like, what you're thankful for. It was only four of us, but our deal is, is that you can't repeat anything the person said before you.

[Kelly Ripa]

Okay?

[Jan Chalet]

So I'm like, I'm so thankful that my boys are getting along so well. And then, like, you know, and I said something else and then some. Then they were fighting over what was said and what was taken. And I'm like, that's the whole point. You guys weren't supposed to fight anymore.

[Kelly Ripa]

I was preemptively telling you not to fight. Right.

[Jan Chalet]

But it was great. It was actually really. It Was a really nice weekend.

[Kelly Ripa]

Oh, that's good. I'm glad, Albert.

[Albert Bianchini]

Oh, I went to the heart of Brooklyn.

[Kelly Ripa]

Oh. Oh, you went into it.

[Albert Bianchini]

I went into it. We went to my sister's house. My mom was there, the whole family. And Kyle, I made him go out and buy pies from the Little Pie Company. All these places. And as we're leaving.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah, because there's hardly any food ever served at your Thanksgiving dinner.

[Albert Bianchini]

I mean, the pic. I'll show you photos. But as we're leaving to go, I see Kyle go into the kitchen cabinets and start taking out Tupperware and Tupperware putting him. And he pulls out, like, a Target shopping bag, like, one of the big ones. And he starts filling the shopping bag with empty Tupperware. I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? And he's like, well, I know your sister's going to want to give us leftovers. And I figure I may as well bring my own Tupperware.

[Kelly Ripa]

I'm like, oh, he brought his own.

[Albert Bianchini]

He brought his own Tupperware.

[Kelly Ripa]

That is so wild.

[Albert Bianchini]

So.

[Kelly Ripa]

Especially because in your family, I know they have the original Tupperware from the original Tupperware party.

[Albert Bianchini]

So he says, I'm doing your sister a favor because she's ultimately going to give me her Tupperware, and then I'm going to have to give it back. And then it's the whole thing. I said, you're not showing up to someone's house with Tupperware. You're going to leave it in the trunk and we'll play it by ear. So, of course, this giant bag of Tupperware in the trunk, the meal's finished. That we got through, like, a 16th of all the food that was put out, of course.

[Kelly Ripa]

And then, thank God you brought those pies.

[Albert Bianchini]

She says, kyle, let's give you some leftovers. He jumps up, he smiles, and he leaves the house. She's like, where'd he go?

[Kelly Ripa]

He's bringing his.

[Albert Bianchini]

I mean, these Tupperwares were, like, the big ones. Like, you'd fill with, like, a giant soup that you made.

[Kelly Ripa]

He knows your family took everything.

[Albert Bianchini]

Not everything, but most of it. And I can't get over it. I think it's the tackiest thing in the world. And I've been making fun of him since. Who brings Tupperware to somebody's house?

[Kelly Ripa]

Kyle does. And from now on, I would like for him to bring his Tupperwares here, because the amount of times I've, like, I've sent people home with, like, platters I call them the disposable platters. You never get them back. Right. This was the first Thanksgiving I lost nothing because I was at a restaurant.

[Albert Bianchini]

I mean, I get it, and it's my sister, and she was thrilled by it and loved it, but still, I'm a little frazzled by the whole thing.

[Kelly Ripa]

But there were no fights. No real fights? No. Well, what are we gonna talk to Mark about now?

[Jan Chalet]

I think there's a lot of things to talk to Mark about.

[Kelly Ripa]

All right, well, let's get to it. We should welcome him now. The man who has redefined how the world looks at self improvement. Let's bring him in. Mark Manson, everybody. Mark, hello. Hello. Hello, Mark, give me your origin story. No, let's not. I want to hear about Mark's Thanksgiving. Yes. Yeah. What happens in the Manson house at Thanksgiving?

[Mark Manson]

Well, this ties into the origin story. So I grew up in a small town in Texas, and it used to be outside of Austin, but now Austin has just grown and consumed everything around it. So now where I grew up is kind of a suburb of Austin. But this, this Thanksgiving was exciting because my cousin was hosting for the first time. So it was kind of the first time that my generation was. Was taking over and, and my brother and I flew down and what, what my cousin neglected to tell me is that she bought a farm about two hours outside of town. So I spent most of Thanksgiving day driving to the middle of nowhere and spending Thanksgiving with a bunch of cows and horses.

And wondering, like, where the hell I was. So, yeah, that was the day. It was nice.

[Kelly Ripa]

I should have known. You grew up, like, in Texas. You've got great Texas hair.

[Mark Manson]

Oh, thank you.

[Kelly Ripa]

I do. Yeah. That's like great Texas hair. The people of Texas have great hair. Especially like Austin, if you go to Austin. My son almost went to UT Austin. I'm sad he didn't go. I really wanted him to go there. And I, I just. I love the area. I thought it was great. It's fabulous.

[Mark Manson]

It's a great town. It really is.

[Kelly Ripa]

But what town is your cousin in? So we should give that. We should give that town a shout out.

[Mark Manson]

Yeah, shout out to Spicewood, Texas. I think it's a population. It's about 300 people or so.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah. So when you go, like, when you go. I remember.

The year the subtle art of not giving a fuck came out. It was, it was in everybody's Christmas gift. It was one of the white elephant gifts that people fought over. It was in my entire family's. Everybody's stocking Stuffer. I stuffed the book in. I just feel like it's essential reading. Do you bring your own books to family events?

[Mark Manson]

No, no, I, I wish I was that pretentious, but I, I mean, at this point, at this point, my family's kind of sick of hearing from me, so it's, you know, I want to spare them when I, when I see them.

[Kelly Ripa]

Give our listeners for those. I can't imagine any of our listeners haven't read this. Subtle art. But what is the core philosophy of the book? The subtle art of not giving a.

[Mark Manson]

The core philosophy is that life is hard. It's always going to be hard. No matter what you do or how successful you are or how good things go, there's always going to be problems and always going to be struggles. So really the whole game of life is choosing good problems to give a fuck about and.

Ignore the rest or deprioritize the rest.

[Kelly Ripa]

And what do you think it is with people? Why do people focus on the negative versus the positive?

[Mark Manson]

Well, I think that we're. We're kind of just psychologically primed to pay more attention to. To bad things, to threats, to fear, to bad news. And I think what's, what's kind of the struggle of our times is, you know, with, with smartphones and social media and the Internet and all this stuff. Like we're, we are so bombarded with so much information and so many stories and so many people.

That the. It's hard for us. We. We. We lose track of what actually matters and what is actual signal and what's just noise. And there's, there's just so much noise that, that dominates our lives. So this question of, you know, really sifting through what you're paying attention to and what you're spending your time on and knowing what to give a. About. I don't think this would have, like, I don't think it's a message that would have resonated, say 50 years ago or a hundred years ago. I think it's something that's like very particular to this day and age.

[Kelly Ripa]

Take me to the. Into the meeting with your publisher when you wanted to put that, you know, the word on the title. Did they freak out? Were they like, we love everything about this book, but except for the title.

[Mark Manson]

It was, it was actually, it was contentious. There were, there were strong opinions on both sides. It's actually really funny in hindsight. The biggest argument against it was that Walmart would not carry it if it had fuck on the title. So it was, Everybody was like, Kowtowing to Walmart. He's like, oh, God forbid we do anything to upset Walmart. Of course, this day and age, it's, you know, it's all. Everybody buys books through Amazon and whatnot. So it's kind of funny to look back.

[Kelly Ripa]

So can you. This fascinating concept about backwards law. Can you break down the idea and explain, Explain like why it's fundamental to happiness or contentment. I'm going to say contentment because the word happiness is also like people find, you know, they find the word triggering. It's weird.

[Mark Manson]

It's a lot of baggage with happiness.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah.

[Mark Manson]

A lot of, A lot of expectations. The backwards laws. The backwards law is in chapter one and it's actually an idea that comes from Alan Watts and basically it is the, the avoidance are. Sorry. The pursuit of a positive experience is itself a negative experience. And the acceptance of a negative experience is itself a positive experience. So most people, it is very instinctive and natural for us psychologically. We always run after what we want. We are always thinking about like, oh, I want a new house and a, and a better pair of shoes and a new Jet Ski or whatever, then I'll finally be happy. Whereas, like, what we don't realize is that the constant focus on what we lack is, is actually the thing that is making us unhappy. And similarly, we tend to instinctively all try to avoid anything unpleasant. We don't want to think about our problems, we don't want to have difficult conversations. We don't want to bring up uncomfortable topics. Yet it is the willingness to engage with those uncomfortable or unpleasant things that actually brings us a great sense of happiness. So it's this paradoxical thing where the more we chase the positive, the more negative we feel. And the more we accept the negative, the more positive we feel.

[Kelly Ripa]

So interesting. What are the top five things that people care too much about that are sabotaging? I know some of it is obviously the material stuff, right?

[Mark Manson]

Yeah, materialism is definitely up there. There's just like, at this point, there's just so much research on like past this past, like a pretty steady middle class income. Like buying stuff's not going to make you happy.

The. I would say kind of the number one thing that I hear from people is caring too much what people think. That seems to be the one that shows up constantly. I like every talk I ever give, somebody stands up and is like, how do I stop caring what people think? The funny thing with that is that like, it's impossible to stop caring what people think. Like, you're human. There Actually, there is a name for somebody who does not care at all what other people think. Do you know what that word is?

[Jan Chalet]

Narcissist.

[Mark Manson]

A psychopath.

[Kelly Ripa]

Close. We were close, Jan. We were close.

[Albert Bianchini]

I thought you were going to say December.

[Mark Manson]

That too. That too. So we have to care what other people think. We should care what other people think. Like you should care what your. Your friends and family think. It's healthy to care what they think. The problem is, is that you don't care about anything more than what other people think.

[Kelly Ripa]

Right.

[Mark Manson]

It's. It's about finding something. The thing I always say to people is, like, what is something in your life you're willing to be disliked for? And if you can't answer that easily, then that itself is the problem.

[Kelly Ripa]

Oh, Jen, how much time do you have?

Jen and I can spend three hours talking about what we're willing to be disliked over. So I guess that means we're healthy.

[Jan Chalet]

Yeah. We're not psychopaths.

[Kelly Ripa]

We're not psychopaths yet.

But why do. What is it about our human nature that makes us care so deeply about what people think about us?

[Mark Manson]

It's very ingrained in our. In our brains for survival. So if you. If you go back to, like, the caveman days, you. You had to be accepted by your tribe. If you did anything that caused you to. To be rejected by the tribe or the people around you, you would die. Like, if you got kicked out of the tribe, if they decided that they didn't want to deal with your. Your bullshit anymore, you know, you would get eaten by a tiger or, you know, hunted down by a. By a rival tribe or something like that. So we evolved over hundreds of thousands of years to associate social rejection with. With literal death, which is why people, you know, the famous survey is that the number one people, the number one fear that people have is public speaking. People are actually more afraid of public speaking than actually dying. And there's a very, like, logical evolutionary explanation for it. The problem is, is that, like, in this day and age, if you. Social rejection, it doesn't involve death anymore. In fact, it's. You can argue that social rejection isn't even that big of a problem anymore, considering, like, how big and crazy our society is today. So it's. It's a bit of an outmoded technology in our brains.

[Kelly Ripa]

But I still have a terrible fear of public speaking. And it's. And I. And I'm telling you, it's weird.

[Mark Manson]

I'm in the wrong business.

[Kelly Ripa]

I'm in the wrong business. I have A real crippling fear of public speaking. But I don't think it's because I'm afraid of what people will think. I just think that I actually. Cause I don't. I love dying. Like, when I die on stage, I. That actually, to me, is very funny. I think it's very funny. Like when you. When you. I had to host the international Emmys recently, and there were a couple of moments where I knew I was about to say something that would die a horrible death. Like, I knew it was coming, and I actually leaned all the way into how terrible it was going to be. And when it. And when it landed terribly, I just resorted to my old thank you. Thank you so much.

So that actually, like, calms me down when I die. I just don't know. I don't know if it's, like, fear of rejection that is the reason I'm afraid of public speaking. I think it's more psychological. Mark, you're gonna have to write a third book.

[Mark Manson]

Are you. Are you afraid of performing or is it just speaking?

[Kelly Ripa]

It depends. It depends. Like, I was an actor for years and years, and I can still act. Like, if I am.

Called upon to act in, say, a television program or something, I can do that. But when I was doing the sitcom and we had to go live before the studio audience, I found that absolutely terrifying. Terrifying. So I don't know what it's. I don't know. I'm. I think I'm up. I think I'm a private introvert and a public extrovert or the vice versa, whatever that is. Well, we're not gonna. It's not about me. We're not gonna solve it.

[Mark Manson]

Let's change the subject.

[Kelly Ripa]

Is there something we need to give more of a. About. Mark, what should we be? Where should we place our fucks?

[Mark Manson]

This question is on. Like, I have to warn the listeners like this. This question is. They're going to be disappointed because the answer is so boring. It is. Generally, the things that we need to give more about are the things that we kind of know we should, but we're constantly distracted or.

Seduced away from. So, you know, things like health, family, friendships.

It, like. It is crazy if you. You know, we were joking about happiness earlier, but, like, if you really do do a deep dive into all the happiness research, it's actually upsetting how basic it is. Like. Like, there's no. There's no secret. There's no, like, magical mountaintop that you. You have to get to. It really. It really comes down to, are Your basic needs met? Do you have good relationships? Do you have an interest or hobby that you enjoy doing? Like, that's like 90% of it. And people don't like hearing that. It's not a, a sexy headline. It's not something that sells $10,000 seminars. But, like, that is what the research says. That is the long and short of it.

[Kelly Ripa]

I like that answer, Jan. What about in relationships?

[Jan Chalet]

Like, what do you think is the key for, like, happiness and, like, long term relationships?

[Mark Manson]

Well, I'll say this, people. This is another unpopular answer. But it's true.

People overestimate love and underestimate trust and respect. That's not to say that love isn't important. It's absolutely important. But what you see consistently is that people will tolerate really unhealthy and damaging relationships because they're like, but we're in love and we're gonna make it work. Because I love them so much and they love me and we're working through our problems and we're doing this and that and the other thing. And it's like, if you don't, if you don't have trust and if you don't have mutual respect, like, nothing else is really gonna matter in the long run.

[Jan Chalet]

I saw you posted something recently and I really loved it. And I want to know if you can relay it to our listeners about the difference between a nice man and a good man. Like the differences.

[Kelly Ripa]

Wait, should we take a commercial break and then he can. Yeah, we have to. Mark, will you stay with us? Listen, you are staying with us. I bought 500 copies. We've got callers of your book.

[Mark Manson]

I was about to say I have an option.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah. No, you don't have an option. You have no option. You are stuck here. We're going to take a commercial break and you're going to give us that answer when we return. Stick around.

Today's special holiday segment was made possible by Bosch Home Appliances. You know that holiday feeling when everything just works? When your oven actually listens, your cooktop heats up quickly and cleanup is so quiet you can almost forget your dishwasher is running. That is what I call kitchen confidence. We can all relate. During the holidays, there's a certain kind of pressure to make every dish perfect. Like the timing for the big holiday meal. Making sure the sides are hot when the roast comes out of the oven, which seems impossible. Making meals that are a crowd pleaser for the picky eaters, and cleaning up just enough so you don't wake up to a mess in the kitchen. A well designed kitchen makes all the difference. Bosch's design and technology make the kitchen feel luxurious and intuitive. Perfect for anyone who loves to cook. Or maybe those who hate doing dishes, which is everyone. It is the whole planet.

[Jan Chalet]

I know, but don't you like when some of it's clean before the night's over? I always try to do some of it beforehand.

[Kelly Ripa]

It has to be clean. I cannot go to bed if it's not clean.

[Jan Chalet]

And like halfway through the meal, I try to get stuff in to clean it.

[Kelly Ripa]

Me too. And then you have people asking if you need help when I get up to clear and Kyle gets up to clear.

[Albert Bianchini]

Sit down, Kyle.

[Kelly Ripa]

Sit down, Kyle. Quiet, sleek and full of quality, Bosch helps you cook, clean and entertain seamlessly. The gift of Bosch is the gift of confidence. A Bosch kitchen helps you be your best. The ultimate gift is their full kitchen suite. With a quality Bosch kitchen, you can expect everything to work better. So you can too. With the Bosch wall oven, you get even baking and roasting with perfect results every time. And the crystal dry dishwasher ends the night quietly with dishes that come out clean and dry easy. Even your plastic containers.

[Jan Chalet]

Oh yeah, that's tough sometimes.

[Kelly Ripa]

Tough. Yeah, tough. They don't want to dry. And their fridge with vitafresh Pro helps keep food fresh. We all know that one person who can make hosting look effortless with high quality appliances that clean, cook and dry like a dream. Everything just works better with Bosch. So you can too. Discover the Bosch kitchen suite at a dealer near you. Bosh Invented for life if you know anything about me, it's that I love to do laundry. It just gives me such satisfaction. But did you also know that skin care can start in the laundry room? The first step of a sensitive skincare routine is choosing the right laundry detergent. All Free Clear is the number one detergent brand recommended by dermatologists for sensitive skin. Allfree Clear is 100% free of dyes and fragrance allergens. It provides an effective clean that's gentle on the skin while removing impurities like dirt and body oil that can irritate your skin. It's made with eight carefully selected ingredients to fight stains and be gentle on skin. How great is that? Allfree Clear has been a game changer for me. It leaves my clothes feeling fresh and my skin feeling happy. I especially love that it doesn't give my laundry a strong artificial odor like some other brands. You know what I mean? For an effective skin friendly clean wash.

[Commercial Announcer]

With all free clear on December 19, based on the best selling novel Amanda Seyfried and Sydney Sweeney star in the Housemaid a wildly entertaining thriller about a live in housemaid and the wealthy Winchester family experience a twisted world where perfection is an illusion and nothing is as it seems. The shocking twists will leave you guessing until the very end. Can you keep a secret? The Housemaid Rated R. Only in theaters December 19th. Get tickets now.

[Kelly Ripa]

Guys, thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree, Zoe.

[Mark Manson]

This thing weighs a ton. Drew ski, lift with your legs, man.

[Kelly Ripa]

Santa. Santa, did you get my letter?

[Mark Manson]

He's talking to you britches. I'm not.

[Kelly Ripa]

Of course he did. Right, Santa?

[Albert Bianchini]

You know my elf Drew ski here.

[Mark Manson]

He handles the nice list. An elf? I'm six three. What everyone wants is iPhone six seventeen and at t mobile you can get it on them. That center stage front camera is amazing for group selfies. Right, Mrs. Claus?

[Kelly Ripa]

I'm Mrs. Claus's much younger sister. And at T mobile, there's no trade in needed when you switch. So you can keep your old phone.

[Mark Manson]

Or give it as a gift.

[Kelly Ripa]

And the best part, you can make the switch to T mobile from your phone in just 15 minutes. Nice.

[Mark Manson]

My side of the tree is slipping.

[Albert Bianchini]

Kimber.

[Mark Manson]

The holidays are better.

[Commercial Announcer]

AT T mobile, switch in just 15 minutes and get iPhone 717 on us with no trade in needed. And now T mobile is available in u. S cellular stores with 24 monthly bill.

[Mark Manson]

Credits for well qualified customers plus tax and 35 vice connection charge credit balance.

[Commercial Announcer]

To pay off earlier.

[Mark Manson]

Cancer Finance Agreement 256 gates 830 eligible board in a new line 100 plus.

[Commercial Announcer]

A month plan with auto payments, taxes, fees required.

[Mark Manson]

Check out 15 minutes or less per line.

[Kelly Ripa]

Visit t mobile.com we're back with Mark Manson, everybody. When we left off, Jan, you had asked a question. Ask it again for people who are just getting in their cars now.

[Jan Chalet]

Okay, so Mark, I saw you posted something about the difference between a nice man and a good man. So I wanted to know if you can talk to us about that.

[Mark Manson]

The difference is that just because somebody's nice doesn't mean they're actually good for you. People will often say the things that you want to hear. They will often.

Reframe things or sugarcoat things to soften the blow. I think a really good partner, somebody who really truly loves you and appreciates you and wants the best for you, is going to tell you the uncomfortable things that you need to be told at times and and often you're going to be mad at them for it. It's not going to feel good. It's going to be upsetting. You might have a little fight about it, but I think that's, that's actually healthier than somebody who just tells you what you want to hear all the time.

[Kelly Ripa]

Jan, did you marry a good man?

[Jan Chalet]

I did marry a good.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yes, you did. Yes, I did. I did. I did. So did I. Yeah. I think that Mark can tell me tough things that I don't want to hear 30% less.

[Mark Manson]

Just maybe dial it back a little bit.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah, just dial it back. You don't have to be 100% honest 100% of the time. You know, blow a little smoke every now and again.

Don't you agree?

[Albert Bianchini]

Yes.

[Kelly Ripa]

All right, who's our first caller? Let's see. All right. Oh, we've got Kelly in New York City, but I'm already here. Kelly, hey, you're on with Mark Manson. What's your question?

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

Hi, first of all, best title of a book.

[Kelly Ripa]

Love it.

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

It's awesome. The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck. I love it.

[Kelly Ripa]

Kelly, do you give a fuck or what's your question?

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

Okay, sorry. What are the signs of self sabotaging? Like, also, what's the difference of quitting and letting go?

[Mark Manson]

Oh, man, she's coming. She's coming. With the easy questions. I see.

The quitting versus letting go. I think that that's a bit of an easier question. So, like, the thing that I tell people is that first of all, I think quitting's like a little bit underrated. I think it's, it doesn't get enough airtime or support. I think our culture kind of glorifies just like banging your head against the.

[Kelly Ripa]

Wall until you get somewhere toughing it, grinding it out.

[Mark Manson]

Yeah, totally. Like there's a little bit of romanticism in the suffering for something. I always tell people, especially young people, I say, like, if you feel like you're making progress, and especially if you feel like that progress is accelerating the more work that you put in, then you stick it out, right? Like if, if you're making progress, but that progress is extremely difficult and it's hard and, and you know, you're, you're overwhelmed at times and you're stressed out, but you're making progress, then grid it out. If you feel like you're, the progress is slowing down or it's just non existent at all. I think at a certain point you, you have to be realistic about quitting and that there's nothing to be ashamed of with quitting. Another way I describe it is like a rock up a hill versus pushing a rock down A hill, ideally. Like, the more you push, the easier the pushing should get. Whereas if the more you push, the harder it gets, then that's probably a sign that you're pushing on the wrong rock.

The self sabotage question is much more complicated and impersonal, but I would just generally say that, like, the thing about self sabotagers is that if, you know, most people are afraid before they start, and then once they start, the fear kind of goes away. If you're starting to get fear, the closer you get to the goal, that's the sign that you're self sabotaging. Like, if the fact that you were like 90% on the way to your. Your success or your dream and now you're freaking out with fear, that's. That's the sabotage talking.

[Kelly Ripa]

Kelly, did that answer your question? Do you feel like you're pushing a rock up a hill or down a hill?

[Mark Manson]

Up.

[Jan Chalet]

Always.

[Kelly Ripa]

Always up.

[Dr. Tomasian]

How.

[Mark Manson]

How long have you been pushing?

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

Too long.

[Kelly Ripa]

Well, can you give us an amount of time? Has it been years? Months? Weeks?

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

Years? Eight years.

[Mark Manson]

Yeah. I mean, it's funny because it. It almost just that word to that says all you need to know.

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

Wow.

[Kelly Ripa]

Whoa.

Kel, are you gonna. What are you gonna do with this rock? Are you gonna. Are you gonna keep pushing it? Are you gonna, like, let it just slide down the hill by itself?

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

I think I have to let it go. I've gotta learn to let go.

[Kelly Ripa]

How do you feel like you sabotage yourself?

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

I mean, that's a heavier. I mean, so many ways. In so many ways.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah.

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

Dan. Dan.

[Kelly Ripa]

Jan. Yeah.

[Jan Chalet]

I just think that you. Sometimes you, you know, when a good thing's happening in your way, you kind of go in the other direction.

[Mark Manson]

Correct. Would you.

[Kelly Ripa]

What is that about people, Mark? I mean, if, if you can elaborate, maybe. I find that I suffer from this too. If something good happens to me, I immediately almost have, like a sense of dread. Like, like, oh, something really good has happened to me. And now a feeling of dread has set in. Can you see other shoes going to drop? Yeah, like the other shoe. Like a shoe is about to drop. Something bad must be on the precipice.

[Mark Manson]

I think there's. There's two things that go on here. One is just people are inherently afraid of change, and we think of change as generally a bad thing, but we don't think that often something really good happening to us is also change.

So even if something that you've dreamed about or pursued or chased for many, many years starts to happen to you, it's gonna change your life. It's gonna change you, it's gonna change your relationships. And that's scary. And so I think a lot of people start to feel that change and the fear around that change, and we default back to our old patterns. The, the other thing that, that shows up for a lot of people is there's this, this, like, uncomfortable question of deserving. They, they think, like, well, wait, I, I don't deserve this. Like, I didn't do anything to deserve this. There are other people who deserve this. And I, I, I just think that that's, like, that's just a dangerous line of questioning to go down. I, I personally, I just like the.

I don't like the word deserve. I just think, like, so many bad things are justified with the word deserve.

I just try to, to do the best with, with whatever my circumstances in the moment and not think too hard about, like, well, did I, it's like, did I, did I really deserve 20 million books? Like, I could drive myself absolutely insane if I tried to figure that out. So I just, you know what? Let's just do the best work you can with what you got here and don't think about it too much.

[Kelly Ripa]

20 million 500.

Kelly, thanks for calling. I hope that helped.

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

It did help. Thank you.

[Kelly Ripa]

All right, bye.

[Albert Bianchini]

Kel, I have a question for you.

[Kelly Ripa]

Go, Albert.

[Albert Bianchini]

Because I talked to Jan and Kelly about meditation. A lot of what's your feelings on meditation? And do you meditate? And I'd love to hear that.

[Mark Manson]

Meditation is great. I did it pretty seriously for about eight or 10 years. I've kind of gotten away from it lately. But it's generally, I think, especially for people who are prone to a lot of stress and anxiety.

It's even something as simple as five or ten minutes a day. It can be really useful and very helpful, I think, for people. In my case, like, I have adhd. I think it's very useful for people with adhd. It, like, kind of calms your mind down a little bit, helps you. It basically kind of trains you to manage your attention and focus a little bit better. So I think it's a wonderful tool. I'm a big fan of it and have used, I've done it quite a bit myself.

[Kelly Ripa]

Did you find writing your books very challenging with adhd? Like, how did you get yourself to sit still and focus?

[Mark Manson]

Oh, yeah.

I don't know. I, I like, I play games with my brain. I, I, I, I, I kind of, it's funny, I think of my brain as like a dog sometimes, where you have to, you know, you have to, you have to like, kind of trick it into doing what I want it to do. But for me, you know, especially with book writing or any, any like, really intense, deep work, it's mainly about just removing any opportunity of distraction. So no phone in the room blocked off, like, no email, no social media. I tell my wife and my friends, like, hey, I'm just not available for this block on my calendar. And then what I do is I reward myself at the end. So I kind of. The Same way you, like, give a dog a treat for behaving? Well, I give my brain a treat of like, okay, if I do my 90 minute block of writing, then I can like buck off and screw around on YouTube for 30 minutes and like, with zero guilt and zero shame. And then the next block comes up on the calendar and it's like, okay, back to monk mode. Until. Until I get through that block.

[Kelly Ripa]

I always say the interesting thing about writing is like, so you block off 90 minutes of writing time, right? That's your, like, at a time.

[Mark Manson]

And then like two blocks. If I do two blocks of that a day, then that's probably a pretty good day.

[Kelly Ripa]

But how long? So, so there's like the writing time, right? But then don't you have to get your mind into the headspace of writing?

[Mark Manson]

Yeah, a little bit. I mean, there's some rituals, right? Like again, kind of like.

So one of, one of the things that I do when, when I'm working on a book is I will almost select like.

Two or three music albums that I'm like, okay, these are the albums of the book. And I kind of like train my brain of like, okay, when this music is on, I'm writing and. And then when, when that the albums are over, that means I can go take a break.

So, yeah, you can. You can kind of just do these little psychological tricks with yourself. But it is hard. And books are very hard, to say the least.

[Kelly Ripa]

Books are hard. Let's get to. We've got another New York. But it's funny a lot in New York City. This is going to be a strong New York City crowd for you. We've got Allison in New York City. Alison, you're on with Mark.

[Dr. Tomasian]

Hi.

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

Hi, Mark.

[Mark Manson]

Hello.

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

I have your book. I bought it years ago and I was hoping it would save me from giving so many fucks.

[Kelly Ripa]

Are you down any fuck, Allison? Have you lost any fucks?

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

I have lost some, Fox. I am grateful for losing some.

[Mark Manson]

And that's progress.

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

I'm making progress. And I'm. My question is Pretty specific. It's about resentment.

Which plague me, and I seem to have resentments that I don't seem to be able to let go of that I replay in my head over and over. Typically, you know, the most painful ones are in toxic family relationships that I can't leave. I love these people, and they're not all toxic, but there are things that have happened that built up resentment, and I can't seem to let them go.

[Mark Manson]

Is it. How often do you see these people?

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

I see them very regularly or communicate with them, you know, by text or phone. They're. They're close family members.

[Mark Manson]

Yeah. So it's kind of like. It's like a wound that just keeps getting re. Triggered.

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

Exactly.

[Mark Manson]

Imagine.

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

Exactly.

[Mark Manson]

The family member thing is tough.

And by the way, I speak as someone who's kind of in the same boat here. Like, as you said, you can't just cut off a fan. It's not like, a friend that you're just like, I'm not gonna talk to you anymore. It. You do want to have some sort of relationship with them when it comes to family. I, like, I. I'm just a big fan of, like, very strong.

Clear boundaries and. And not just with them, but also, like, with yourself. So, like, one of the things is.

Is so obviously there's boundaries around, like, what you talk about with them, what you don't talk about with them, what sort of behavior or treatment you're willing to tolerate from them, what you're not willing to tolerate. Like, it's good to get clarity on all of that and then. And then express it to them if it. If it's an ongoing issue.

But I think that the other thing that comes in with family members is, like, managing your own exposure. And this is. This is. Sadly, this is the solution that I found is just, like, kind of understanding yourself of like, okay, how much time and contact can I manage and.

Stay healthy and happy and feel good about? And then, like, where's that threshold that I start feeling resentful or I start feeling angry or sad or whatever it might be, and just. And try to manage that exposure. Um, and it's. And then just try to live in that. In that balance of, like, wherever that threshold is. So it's not about cutting them off necessarily. It's about, like, just dialing the exposure back and just be like, okay, you know what? Instead of talking to them every day, maybe I'll talk to them, like, twice a week. And instead of talking to them about my career, because they keep judging me about my career. Like, I'm just gonna make career kind of off limits. I'm not going to, like, bring it up. I'm not going to answer their questions. Like, just deciding those things for yourself, kind of removing the surface area that you feel the most, like, sensitive or vulnerable around them, because it's. You're not going to change them. And obviously, you don't want. You do want to have a relationship with them. So it's just, like, you have to be very proactive about setting the terms.

[Kelly Ripa]

Of that relationship, you know, Alison, my girlfriend, Liza Persky, gave me this great piece of advice about resentment. And she said to me, and maybe this will be helpful or meaningful to you, and maybe Mark will jump in and say, kelly, please never give advice again. She said to me, having resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Does that make sense?

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

Makes complete sense. Because I know that, you know, I do this to myself. I mean, I will. I know there's a delicate balance of managing exposure and topics, and then there's also going back to the past and drinking the poison. Right? Like.

[Kelly Ripa]

Right.

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

Who's it hurting? Me.

[Kelly Ripa]

You? It's hurting you.

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

Totally relevant.

[Mark Manson]

Yeah. Yeah. And it's. It's. It's.

I think it's. It's.

Like.

[Kelly Ripa]

It's.

[Mark Manson]

There's always going to be some resentment there. It's just the question of, like, where. Where do you feel in control and still at peace? And, like, where's that threshold where it feels over like you're drinking the poison? And, like, find that threshold and then just try to stay on one side of it.

[Kelly Ripa]

Allison, thanks for the call, and good luck to you. Don't drink the poison. I will not drink the poison.

[Caller (Kelly/Allison)]

And you guys could have saved me a lot of money on therapists. I should.

[Kelly Ripa]

Thanks for calling in, Alison. We've got to go to commercial break. We're going to be back with Mark Manson in just a minute. Stick around.

We're back with Dr. Tomasian. He's talking to us again about winter skincare. Thanks to Loreal. This is so exciting. I can't believe we got Dr. Tomasian to come back on this here pod. This is big news.

[Jan Chalet]

Is he still married?

[Kelly Ripa]

Is he still married? That is the question. Albert, stop asking.

[Mark Manson]

Taken.

[Kelly Ripa]

He's taken, and you're not his type. I really enjoyed our talk about winter skincare the last time we had you on so much. We were talking about it like, I never had a skincare routine as a child. Like, the most I did was use those pads that, like, had alcohol on them and like they were supposed to take care of acne. And I would just scrub the oil off of my skin. I mean, as much as I could, I was stripping and stripping away the oil, you know, on my skin. I never wore sunscreen as a kid, ever. I. But again, I'm a child of the 70s. Dr. That wasn't a thing. Cigarettes inside, cigarettes in cars with children, that was a thing. No seat belts, that was a thing. Yeah. Baby oil, that was a thing. So, you know, I really developed a skin care routine as an adult. Can you define what. Because people, what were. I use the word a lot too. Radiance. People want to know what is the definition of radiance?

[Dr. Tomasian]

Radiant skin. When I look at it as a dermatologist, as I look at some one, like the glow of someone's skin. But I also look at the texture, the tone of it, the discoloration. If everything's really uniform and unique and like you have a good light reflex off your skin, I think you have very radiant skin. And, you know, hydration also plays a role there.

[Kelly Ripa]

Can you break down some of the buzzworthy ingredients and tell everybody. I'm always being accused of mispronouncing this word. Hyaluronic. Hyaluronic acid.

[Dr. Tomasian]

Great question. So hyaluronic acid is basically something we all have in our skin and it actually plumps up the skin. It builds and pulls water into the skin. So it's a great way. We call it a humectant because it pulls water and it basically hydrates the skin. So all ages, you know.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah, that's a good word, humectant.

[Dr. Tomasian]

Vitamin C is probably the most powerful antioxidant that we have in our skin. And it is a great thing to decrease all the free radicals. So especially if you live in a big city, it's going to help, really, with all the smog and pollution that's actually damaging your skin, it protects you from that. It also strengthens and builds collagen. So it's going to help kind of firm up the skin, which is amazing. Retinol has been around for a long time. There's a lot of forms of retinol, but retinol is a vitamin A derivative and actually works at the genetic level of the skin. It turns it over faster. It thickens up the collagen and the elastin fiber. So you get that, that recoil, you know, when people press on their skin, they're like, oh, I. I have that good bounce. That's what that retinol is doing. So all Amazing and great ingredients is the retinol.

[Kelly Ripa]

What helps with discoloration.

[Dr. Tomasian]

It also helps because it's turning over that skin a little quicker. It's going to help kind of lift off some of the hyperpigmentation, but it also inhibits the enzyme that creates more pigment. So it works really well. That's the really cool thing about all these ingredients is like everybody wants to get all these in the routine, but they don't want like a 12 step routine. Right. So like that's why I love the l' Oreal Paris products, especially the triple power ones because I think they understand why we need that.

[Kelly Ripa]

They get, I mean at least my, they understand my life. And I don't think my life is that different than everybody else's life. Like nobody has time for a 12 step process.

[Dr. Tomasian]

Nobody.

[Kelly Ripa]

No.

[Dr. Tomasian]

And I, we're busy. Everyone's busy. I think people wake up right before they need to leave to the house. So like having the triple power serum as tripeptins in it, those, all those peptides in there, there's three peptides. But it basically will help enhance the elastin collagen. It hydrates the skin. You have vitamin C in there, you have hyaluronic acid. So you get the brightening, the hydration, the improvement of your collagen and then you just follow that up with the triple power. You could actually use a triple power moisturizer with spf.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah. Yep.

[Dr. Tomasian]

So you get like all of them. So you're getting pro retinol, you're getting hyaluronic acid, more vitamin C and now spf. It's really a two step approach where you could get out of the house. And I think every dermatologist, if you told them that was your routine, will be happy because you're covering all the bases. You're going to get the protection and the building of that radiant skin that you want.

[Kelly Ripa]

Initially when I tried the tripeptide serum and the triple power moisturizer, I was like, but it doesn't burn so it must not work because I was under this. And again it's because for years as a kid my only association with a skin care product was that it had to burn to work. And that's not true. Right? Dr.

[Dr. Tomasian]

I don't even, I, I can't even yell at you. I just feel bad for you.

[Mark Manson]

If.

[Dr. Tomasian]

You think that's what a good routine would have been. But I think a lot of people do that, especially when they feel like their skin is not radiant. They, they're trying to do too much where their skin gets so dry after. I feel like when you try to scrub, scrub, scrub and get it, you're like, I want it to be super clean. But like, you'll dry your skin and then it might look good right when you wash it, but like a minute later it looks more dull. So the key is not redness and irritation. The key is a nice soothing experience that should be like. And that's the beauty of these l' Oreal products. They're safe for all skin types. So you could use it. If you have dry skin, sensitive skin, any type of skin, it's safe for that.

[Kelly Ripa]

Well, thank you so much. This has been really nice. I love talking with you. And thanks to Loreal for making this conversation possible. This episode of let's Talk Off Camera is brought to you by Alloy Health. Use promo code off camera for $20 off your first [e-mail] here's the truth, everyone. Brain fog, sleep issues, changes in your hair and skin, even your sex drive, they're all connected to hormones.

[Jan Chalet]

Was there like, was there one like, symptom that surprised you the most from this?

[Kelly Ripa]

I mean, there was many, but the changes in my skin, like the actual skin on my body, frightened me.

[Jan Chalet]

See, I'm so scared that I haven't tried started hormones yet that I've like missed a window.

[Kelly Ripa]

No, you have not missed a window. I'm telling you. You have not missed a window. I'm telling you. Alloy connects you with a menopause trained doctor to create a personalized treatment plan delivered right to your door. Jan, it is not too late. Join the 95% of women that feel better in just two weeks. Go to myalloid.com and use the code.

[Commercial Announcer]

Off camera today on December 19th, based on the best selling novel, Amanda Seyfried and Sydney Sweeney star in the Housemaid, a wildly entertaining thriller about a live in housemaid and the wealthy Winchester family experience a twisted world where perfection is an illusion and nothing is as it seems. The shocking twists will leave you guessing until the very end. Can you keep a secret? The Housemaid Rate Rated R. Only in theaters December 19th. Get tickets now.

[Kelly Ripa]

Here's the thing about being a great gift giver. When you find something truly perfect for everyone on your list, you almost don't want to give it away. Quince pretty much has your whole gift list covered. Mongolian cashmere sweaters for $50 when you'd normally pay $200 or more. The Italian wool coats. They look designer, feel luxurious and are made with premium materials. With all the holiday parties. I found some of the most amazing host gifts at Quince. I really think their spice Noel and balsam fir candles are the perfect way to say thank you for having us when you walk in the door. And for a really nice gift, the Mongolian cashmere throw is fabulous. But like everything at Quint's, the price won't make you panic. We're talking way less than other brands charge. Find gifts so good you want to keep them with Quince, go to quince.comoffcamera for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N c e.com off camera to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comoffcamera.

So good. We are back with Mark Manson. Jan, you are chomping at the bit.

[Jan Chalet]

Yeah, well, I do have a question. I'd love your advice on this because with social media, particularly Instagram, it's like, I know better. I know that people are just putting up this bullshit stuff of a perfect life and yet somehow I still get sucked into it and like, it just makes me not feel good. Like I feel, I feel bad. I start comparing myself and even though I know better, I'm still doing it. So I'd love to know how not to give a fuck.

[Mark Manson]

I think the most important thing here is, is understanding your own response to it. So I, I wrote a long piece about this, I think in 2018 or 2019, and I call this the attention diet, because I think there's actually, it's a perfect one to one analogy with junk food, right? Like it's, you know, what, food makes you feel bad, yet you're still drawn to it, you still eat it. And, and so at a certain point you just have to set rules for yourself. You have to set limits for yourself. You have to like go into your fridge and brought all the ice cream and crap for a few months to like reset yourself and feel physically healthy again. I think the same thing is true with our information diet. Like if you, you're gonna, we're all gonna be drawn to junk information and junk content and it's going to feel good, it's going to be very sugary and give us a little high, but then it's going to leave us feeling bad. And so we have to set limits around ourselves and.

Curate our own feeds and our own app usage. So the advice that I always give is just like first of all, hard rule. Anything that makes you feel bad, just unfollow or you can, these days you have to go, you have to click the little three dot thing and say, not interested in this. And basically curate your own algorithm around what you know is good for you.

But the, you know, short of that, it's like, I, I, I'm a big fan of, you know, digital detoxes or social media detoxes. You know, like delete the apps off your phone for a week. Even something as simple as like a, like a five day challenge, like no Instagram or no TikTok or whatever. Just do it to see how your mind feels, how the reset feels, in the same way that you would, you know, maybe do like a, a 10 day detox of junk food or whatnot.

[Albert Bianchini]

But do you have to do that post where you tell everybody you're taking the break?

[Kelly Ripa]

That is the most insufferable. It's so insufferable. When people feel to tell me that they're taking a break from social media.

[Albert Bianchini]

I'm like, that, that's nice.

[Kelly Ripa]

Or that they've come back. They've come back and you're like, oh, did you go somewhere?

[Mark Manson]

I'm back.

[Albert Bianchini]

Oh, every time I see it, I'm like, just go, it's fine.

[Mark Manson]

Yeah, nobody cares. Nobody cares. Yeah, nobody cares.

[Kelly Ripa]

Or like when I, if I post something and again, like I am the, I am the worst because I post and run. Like, I don't even, I don't look.

[Albert Bianchini]

Goodbye.

[Kelly Ripa]

It's a goodbye. I'm out. I'm out. And it's very funny once in a while. So somebody will like leave me a comment like, I'm unfollowing you and I'm like.

That'S amazing news. You can just do that.

You can just do that. And I, trust me, it will affect me the same way. Meaning it will not affect me. I will not notice, I promise you.

[Jan Chalet]

Okay, but speaking of social media.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah, go ahead, Jan. Go Jan.

[Jan Chalet]

Okay. She's something I'm giving way too many fucks about. And I don't know why it's preoccupying my thoughts, but it's bothering me. Okay, so there's a celebrity who has, over the course of career, has made fun of skinny people and now lost a bunch of weight and now is posting all these skinny photos of herself. And to me that is, I don't know why it's bothering me, but it's eating me at the core. So what is that, Mark? Why is that so annoying to me?

[Mark Manson]

I don't know, is it, is it, is it specifically about the skinniness or is it the hypocrisy of it?

[Jan Chalet]

It's the hypocrisy of it.

[Mark Manson]

It's the hypocrisy. So it's like anybody who's just being.

[Jan Chalet]

Hypocritical and there's like other people just like post like pictures of them lifting weights and stuff. It's so annoying to me. Like why, like why the self congratulatory thing going on?

[Mark Manson]

I would say like.

Why do you care? Although I think you already know that you shouldn't like it. See, it's funny because it's, this is where the food analogy works great because it's like a replacement with like a junk food, right? It's like imagine somebody comes to you and it's like, I can't stop eating cake. Why can't I stop eating cake? What do I do? Stop eating cake. Like it doesn't matter. Why you, why you? Like why you keep eating it? Yeah, just stop. Like there's no deeper magical meaning here that like we're going to get to the root of. It's just if it makes you, if it's driving you crazy, if it all.

[Kelly Ripa]

Makes me nuts, I think here's the thing, Jan. When I look at you, I'm just going to, I'm going to give you my two cents. When I look at you, you're so foxy. Like you're gorgeous, you're smart, you're accomplished, you're a hard worker and you are as fit as hell. Like you are one of the fittest people. Let them live. I understand.

[Jan Chalet]

Let them. Right.

[Kelly Ripa]

No right. Let them live. Like who cares? Who cares? Who gives a shit? It's like the thing is I understand. Like I hate hypocrisy too. Like I feel like if you are mean about other people, like I understand where you're coming from. I get it. Like you're, you're, you're in the right, your heart is in the right place. But like at the end of the day, you're too fine and foxy and, and totally accomplished to give two shits about any of that. Mark, don't you.

[Mark Manson]

I 100% agree. Can I ask a question around this too? Is like, do you, is it, is part of it that you are like disappointed in this person? Like that you held them to a high standard and the fact that they turn out to be a hypocrite is just like so disheartening. Is that part of it or is it just.

[Jan Chalet]

I just think it's like this blatant, like you made fun of people, you made fun of someone like me for so long and now.

You'Re just like, celebrating and that's great. I'm so happy for you. But there's just something about it that I find to be ridiculous. Like, I just, I just think, like, all the posting about it is just a little. It's a. It's. Yeah, it bothers me.

[Mark Manson]

It is ridiculous and it's, it's. I. But I think it's one of those things where, like, you.

It'S almost you. Like when I see stuff like this, I almost like, I'm like, grateful that the. The person I has like, shown their two true colors, their true character. Right. Because. Because to me, I've had people, I've had, you know, athletes or celebrities or like, people that, like, I look up to who, who have been very hypocritical or they like or literally do something like this. And I'm just like, well, I guess I. Now I know to never take you seriously again.

[Kelly Ripa]

Right? So that's where it is.

[Mark Manson]

Thank you for. Thank you for notifying me that I should never trust you or give a shit what you say ever again.

[Jan Chalet]

I like that.

[Kelly Ripa]

That's. It is now, you know, this person doesn't mean what they say and that's all you need to take away. This has been a delightful conversation, at least for us. I'm sure Mark is questioning his life choices right now. He's questioning his life choices. But I've got to tell you, Mark, I really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you so much for joining our podcast. I want to remind our listeners to pick up the subtle art of not giving a fuck. If you haven't already bought it, I find it impossible to believe you haven't also pick up Everything is Fucked, a book about hope.

[Mark Manson]

With the colon.

[Kelly Ripa]

Yeah, with a colon.

[Albert Bianchini]

We love a colon.

[Kelly Ripa]

We love it so much. Everything is fucked. Colon, a book about hope. Thank you so much, Mark Manson. And we'll all talk off camera next week. Bye bye, everybody. Woo. Bye, Mark. Bye, Mark. Bye.

[Mark Manson]

Thank you guys.

[Kelly Ripa]

Let's talk off camera with Kelly Ripa is a production of Malojo Productions from Malojo. Our team is Kelly Ripa, Mark Consuelos, Albert Bianchini, Jan Chalet, Seth Gronquist, Roz Therian, Devin Schneider, Michael Halperin, Julia Desch and Team Radio. Andy Lisa Mantineo, Scott Marlowe, Jake Goetz.

[Jan Chalet]

Nothing brings us together like Eglin's best.

[Kelly Ripa]

Eggs, always so fresh and delicious.

[Jan Chalet]

Plus superior nutrition, like 6 times more vitamin D 10 times more Vitam E and 25% less saturated fat compared to ordinary eggs. For us, it's eggs any style, as long as they're the best Eglins best Better taste, better nutrition, better eggs.

[Kelly Ripa]

Visit eglinsbest.com to learn more.

[Jan Chalet]

At Capella University.

[Kelly Ripa]

Learning the right skills could make a difference. That's why our business programs teach you.

[Jan Chalet]

Relevant skills you can take from the.

[Kelly Ripa]

Course room to the workplace. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn [e-mail].